tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post6476652714424322553..comments2024-01-04T07:05:27.381-06:00Comments on Immigration Talk with a Mexican American: Welcome to La Escuelita De Dee: The History of South Texas, Volume 1, Chapter 1Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-85205071522010223072008-03-05T09:23:00.000-06:002008-03-05T09:23:00.000-06:00patriot said... All this conflict between Mexico a...patriot said... <BR/>All this conflict between Mexico and the Spaniards and yet Mexicans speak Spanish today. Too funny!<BR/><BR/>March 1, 2008 8:33 PM<BR/><BR/><BR/>Similar to America's conflict with England in 1776 yet most white American's today speak only ENGLISH, hmm puzzlingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-68746748925372865632008-03-04T20:00:00.000-06:002008-03-04T20:00:00.000-06:00Mestizos are NOT natives to the land, They are a m...Mestizos are NOT natives to the land, They are a mix of Native and Spanish. Mestizos at the time were part of the Mexican Texas Citizenry(2000 Hispanic Peoples, mostly of Spanish and Spanish/Indian caste at the time, Mestizo, Mullato, Zambo, criolo, etc.). The Texas Government under the leadership of Pres. Mirabeau Lamar, forced the Native Americans from their lands and pushed them into Oklahoma.<BR/><BR/>From your own posting from MSN, the following:<BR/>As the land was settled, Native Americans were forced out.<BR/><BR/>That means Native Indians and NOT Mestizos, Hispanic Citizens of New Spain, Mexican Texas, or the future Texas, where they would become known as Spanish Americans. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, in the United States the development of the Southwest, the Chinese Exclusion Acts and World War I intensified the need for cheap labor. Consequently, a great emigration began in Mexico, a combination of Mexicans being recruited by American agribusinesses and a need to escape the violence at home. No one knows<BR/>how many Mexicans entered the United States after 1910, or how many of those who came stayed, but in 1916 the Commissioner of Immigration said that more than 1 million Mexicans were in the United States. The number of Mexicans in Texas alone leaped from approximately 71,000 in 1900 to 252,000 in 1920. Many Mexicans came on their own, but thousands of others were recruited to fill labor shortages and break strikes. The Mexican immigration era of 1900–1930 qualifies as one of the most important population shifts in southwestern annals. Slightly more than 10 percent of Mexico’s population—approximately 1.5 million people—emigrated to the United States during these years. The significance of this period is shown by the fact that 94 percent<BR/>of the foreign-born Mexican population in the United States in 1930 had arrived after 1900. Some 62 percent of them arrived after 1915. (United States Department of<BR/>Commerce, Bureau of the Census, 1930) The new arrivals far outnumbered the Mexican American population already in the United States. A tendency developed to call those who had been born in the<BR/>United States Spanish Americans, while the newer arrivals remained Mexicans. Much folklore has developed about how the population of the American Southwest was “Spanish” as opposed to “Mexican.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Quit trying to substantiate your "Stolen Land" argument. Texas is unique in its history, such is the same for the southwest. However, Spanish Americans would be more rightful to claim the areas vs. Mexican Citizenry from south of the border.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-26428205722778390982008-03-04T17:21:00.000-06:002008-03-04T17:21:00.000-06:00Mestizos aren't truly native to this country or th...Mestizos aren't truly native to this country or this continent as they are a combination of Spaniard and Indian. It was the full blooded Indians who were native to this country/continent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-64854744082834491252008-03-04T14:41:00.000-06:002008-03-04T14:41:00.000-06:00Liquid,Mestizos are the natives to the land. Part ...Liquid,<BR/>Mestizos are the natives to the land. Part Indian, part Spanish. Indian native tribes were all across the Americans. My mother has more Indian vs Spanish. My father has more Spanish vs Indian. Our family farmed the land for centuries.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-2024125917609698562008-03-03T23:33:00.000-06:002008-03-03T23:33:00.000-06:00My points being that you start to late in the peri...My points being that you start to late in the period of Texas to make a fair and just "History of South Texas" as a Volume 1, Chapter 1. What you have printed should be more of a Chapter 3. To much of what led up to this point in time is missing for anybody to make heads or tails of what you are starting with. Your trying to substantiate "the stealing of Mexican land" as used by you PRO's. Anon makes a very good point. We should therefor not be making the same mistakes as the Mexican Government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-25385835651173214032008-03-03T22:44:00.000-06:002008-03-03T22:44:00.000-06:00Dee says: The NATIVES, are the natives who are a m...Dee says: The NATIVES, are the natives who are a mestizo (indian-spanish) residents whose ancestors had farmed the land as natives.<BR/><BR/>The Spanish response was brutal, and by 1820 fewer than 2000 Hispanic citizens (Mestizo's) remained in Texas. Spain was forced to relinquish their control of New Spain in 1821, and Texas becoming a province of the newly formed nation of Mexico, leading to the period in Texas history known as Mexican Texas. <BR/><BR/>"To farm the land, however, white settlers would have to remove the NATIVE inhabitants by FORCE."<BR/><BR/>NATIVE inhabitants actually refers to the Native Indian tribes, not what you are referring to. "The Federal government devised a policy of removal and relocation of native inhabitants. By treaty, land was acquired from the Indians, and the tribes relocated to a place specified by the government. Once Indian removal was complete, the land was surveyed and sold." This paragraph would be much better suited to your phrases above from MSN. It wasn't so much the settlers but the Federal Government that had a problem with Native Indians, and then it was to protect the citizens of the newly acquired territory.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Here is a good link for you: <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.scribd.com/doc/1882107/Texas-Independence-from-Mexico" REL="nofollow">Texas Independence from Mexico</A><BR/><BR/>Anon refers to Section 1.3 on page 3. "think about the analogy here - Mexico allowed settlers from another country ( the USA ) these settlers never bothered to learn English or assimilate in to Mexican society."<BR/><BR/>Here is another for you:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=325601202843049" REL="nofollow">Indians and Spaniards in the Texas Borderlands</A><BR/><BR/>Excerpt:<BR/>"They offered Christian salvation to inhabitants they considered heathen, expecting to convert and subdue them. They offered no reciprocal benefits and saw themselves as a superior civilization. They did not understand native values, especially the traditions of matrilineal kinship and the importance of women in native customs. Spaniards had little concept of a kin-based culture, or one in which gender, rather than race or power, determined status."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-46300281824193062092008-03-03T08:25:00.000-06:002008-03-03T08:25:00.000-06:00There are areas in this country that are less like...There are areas in this country that are less like the dominant culture in this country, so what? That doesn't change the fact that historically and even now this country's identity is still based on Anglo culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-83436746012643994702008-03-03T07:18:00.000-06:002008-03-03T07:18:00.000-06:00Dee, i can't speak for anyone else on this blog, b...Dee, <BR/><BR/>i can't speak for anyone else on this blog, but i think it is great that your family has contributed to the success of the USA. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing your family stories<BR/><BR/><BR/>However, that doesn't change history. The historical fact is that the government of Mexico decided to allow English speaking people to move to Texas. The English speaking people in Texas flouted the law and invited their friends and relatives ( other English speakers ) to cross the border in to Texas. Then the English speaking people had very large numbers of kids and developed a sense of entitlement. And the end result was a disaster for Mexico - This is all a historical fact - go visit the museums in Mexico City - they give the same story in thos museums as you get in the museums in Austin or San Jacinto. The history is not in dispute -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-33565276097232419512008-03-02T22:46:00.000-06:002008-03-02T22:46:00.000-06:00Anon,As always you spin your way.However, as I rel...Anon,<BR/>As always you spin your way.<BR/><BR/>However, as I related, many Mestizo families have lived from Texas to California since the 1600s. We continue to live here. We never moved. Historically, we have adapted to our ever evolving culture in America. <BR/><BR/>Talking to my aunt strengthens and broadens my perspective. <BR/><BR/>What was most fascinating for me this weekend was talking about the changes that occurred in the 1930s, during the Depression. My Aunt´s parents were sharecroppers on a farm north of Laredo. The farm owners kept a number of tenants on his farm. However, when the depression occurred, the farmer advised the sharecroppers to move. They did. They moved to San Antonio. My aunts father started working in Construction. He didnt like it because he preferred farming. However he needed to feed his family. Most of the mothers were stay at home moms, raising their children and teaching them their prayers. As most families in their neighborhoods, they were very Christian people. When my aunts mom became ill in the 1940s, my aunt and her sisters were pulled out of school, as teenagers. They started working at Kelly Airforce base working on machinery for the troops at war. <BR/><BR/>You see, San Antonio was always thriving and a hub of activity, as it is today. No change. No change in culture. <BR/><BR/>Life is so different than some spinners say.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-25503183146475506672008-03-02T16:12:00.000-06:002008-03-02T16:12:00.000-06:00i encourage all readers of this blog to go to wiki...i encourage all readers of this blog to go to wikipedia and read up on the events leading up to the war of texas independence<BR/><BR/>the museum in the capital in austin also has background on this history.<BR/><BR/>i also highly recommend visiting the site of the battle of san jacinto - it is outside houston and is quite impressive<BR/><BR/>there are literally thousands of books on texas history and many museums all over the state<BR/><BR/>but there is no serious dispute among scholars that the influx of people who spoke a different language and then the decision of those immigrants to invite their countrymen to cross the border illegally, led to disaster for mexico.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-67472602001095899522008-03-02T16:08:00.000-06:002008-03-02T16:08:00.000-06:00Dee thank you so much for posting the history of t...Dee <BR/><BR/>thank you so much for posting the history of texas. <BR/><BR/>there is so much to learn there - <BR/><BR/>however, the history of texas provides the best argument for expelling all 12 million of the undocumented here in the usa.<BR/><BR/>think about the analogy here - mexico allowed settlers from another country ( the usa ) these settlers never bothered to learn english or assimilate in to mexican society. <BR/><BR/>These white anglo english speaking settlers bred very rapidly . At the same time they were breeding rapidly they encouraged other english speaking people to illegally immigrate in to texas. <BR/><BR/>After the white english speakers grew to have large enough numbers, they picked up weapons, caused all kinds of problems for mexico, and ultimately led to the breakup of mexico<BR/><BR/>The immigration of people who didn't speak the language led directly to the collapse of many good things in Mexico.<BR/><BR/>Hmm - you don't have to be a scholar of history to see the analogies hereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-7295727875878906492008-03-02T11:38:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:38:00.000-06:00So keeping in mind the Mestizos and the Mission sy...So keeping in mind the Mestizos and the Mission system, the oral history I conducted this weekend with my aunt becomes very relevant. <BR/><BR/>My aunt´s mother and her family grew up in Laredo. They worked for a group of nuns at their convent and my aunt´s mother was schooled by these nuns. This is where she learned to read, read the bible, learned her catholicism, lead the posadas during holiday times, etc. She taught her children all the nun´s taught her. They were taught in English. They kept both languages. <BR/><BR/>My aunt´s father was born in MX but worked as a sharecropper. It is a very fascinating story, her life from then to now. I found the piece about her father moving from sharecropper to construction worker in San Antonio very relevant to our discussion. This occurred during the depression. I will be writing a blog on this sometime this week.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-74004918162712870352008-03-02T11:29:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:29:00.000-06:00The NATIVES, are the natives who are a mestizo (in...The NATIVES, are the natives who are a mestizo (indian-spanish) residents whose ancestors had farmed the land as natives. This encyclopedia statement becomes very, very relevant. <BR/>"The Republic of Texas, which existed for almost ten years before becoming part of the United States, was beset by many problems, principally financial ones. Although Texas had much land, until it was farmed by settlers little money would be available. To farm the land, however, white settlers would have to remove the NATIVE inhabitants by FORCE."Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-70652007197832662642008-03-02T11:24:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:24:00.000-06:00and more, including some of your references:"Betwe...and more, including some of your references:<BR/>"Between 1800 and 1820 Spain’s weak hold on the province of Texas became even more insecure. During that time several expeditions by adventurers from the United States entered Texas. One of the earliest of these so-called filibustering expeditions (armed invasions by groups of private citizens) was led in 1800 by Philip Nolan, who was captured and executed by the Spanish. In 1810 Father Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla and his followers, many of whom were in Texas, tried to declare Mexican independence from the Spanish Empire. Although that revolt was crushed, unrest in Texas and in the rest of Mexico under Spanish rule continued. Several times Mexicans seeking freedom from Spain joined American adventurers to try to set up governments in Texas. In 1813, for example, the Republican Army of the North, led by Bernardo Gutiérrez, a Mexican liberal, and by Augustus W. Magee, a former United States Army officer, took control of Nacogdoches, Goliad, and San Antonio. The leaders declared Texan independence and adopted a constitution. However, on August 18, 1813, the revolutionaries were wiped out by Spanish forces at a battle near the Medina River."Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-53633905840720753262008-03-02T11:23:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:23:00.000-06:00more"In 1716, fearing more French incursions into ...more<BR/>"In 1716, fearing more French incursions into their territory, the Spanish re-created the eastern Texas mission system. More than 30 new missions were established, the most prominent of which was near San Antonio, which was founded as a Spanish town in 1718."Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-71090660028940815992008-03-02T11:22:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:22:00.000-06:00Liquid,The references in the encyclopedia are accu...Liquid,<BR/>The references in the encyclopedia are accurate and very comprehensive.<BR/><BR/>Take for example this quote from an earlier section of the encyclopedia -- many missions are still in place:<BR/>"In 1682 the Spanish established the first mission in Texas at Ysleta, a village near present-day El Paso, to bring Christianity to the native peoples."Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-7689148589489688472008-03-02T11:17:00.000-06:002008-03-02T11:17:00.000-06:00Liquid,I love wikipedia. I use them for reference ...Liquid,<BR/>I love wikipedia. I use them for reference and agree your reference from wiki was a good one, but just prior to my encyclopedia reference.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-27767873472309136412008-03-01T20:33:00.000-06:002008-03-01T20:33:00.000-06:00All this conflict between Mexico and the Spaniards...All this conflict between Mexico and the Spaniards and yet Mexicans speak Spanish today. Too funny!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-2752525370129744112008-03-01T20:19:00.000-06:002008-03-01T20:19:00.000-06:00In 1821 Moses Austin secured a colonization grant ...In 1821 Moses Austin secured a colonization grant from the Spanish authorities in San Antonio. He died from the rigors of his return trip from that distant outpost, but his son, Stephen F. Austin, had the grant confirmed and in Dec., 1821, led 300 families across the Sabine River to the region between the Brazos and Colorado rivers, where they established the first American settlement in Texas. Austin is known as the father of Texas.<BR/><BR/>In 1810 Father Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla and his followers, many of whom were in Texas, tried to declare Mexican independence from the Spanish Empire. Although that revolt was crushed, unrest in Texas and in the rest of Mexico under Spanish rule continued. Several times Mexicans seeking freedom from Spain joined American adventurers to try to set up governments in Texas. In 1813, for example, the Republican Army of the North, led by Bernardo Gutiérrez, a Mexican liberal, and by Augustus W. Magee, a former United States Army officer, took control of Nacogdoches, Goliad, and San Antonio. The leaders declared Texan independence and adopted a constitution. However, on August 18, 1813, the revolutionaries were wiped out by Spanish forces at a battle near the Medina River.<BR/><BR/>The Texas Revolution broke out (1835) in Gonzales when the Mexicans attempted to disarm the Americans and were routed. The American settlers then drove all the Mexican troops from Texas, overwhelming each command in surprise attacks. At a convention called at Washington-on-the-Brazos, Texas declared its independence (Mar. 2, 1836). A constitution was adopted and David Burnet was named interim president.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/presidents/burnet/intro.html" REL="nofollow">Texas State Library & Archives Commission</A><BR/><BR/>Like I said, you need to do further research, your article/story/encyclopedia information from MSN is incorrect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-18490972576874899322008-03-01T20:03:00.000-06:002008-03-01T20:03:00.000-06:00If you are going to talk about Texas, then you sho...If you are going to talk about Texas, then you should begin from its beginning and not from just the time of convenience.<BR/><BR/>Your statement of "To farm the land, however, white settlers would have to remove the native inhabitants by force." is construed to be very misleading, thus, what I was referring to. The people of 'New Spain' were the ones trying to claim the land and were trying to convert the native tribes. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Dee says: My references are from the MSN Encyclopedia, while you are referening Wikipedia (an internet user type blog)<BR/><BR/>Now its not a source for information, when before you treated it as the holy grail?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-76839579461640221072008-03-01T19:34:00.000-06:002008-03-01T19:34:00.000-06:00The other thing I wanted to mention Liquid is, I h...The other thing I wanted to mention Liquid is, I have been completing oral histories with some of my parents remaining siblings. I just finished another this weekend. Some of the information I learned about south texas history is very very enlightening and somewhat revelant to our current debate. I will be writing about this more once I transcribe my tapes and notes in the weeks ahead.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-59622940321574052092008-03-01T19:22:00.000-06:002008-03-01T19:22:00.000-06:00But to your point, your wiki reference is 1600 - 1...But to your point, your wiki reference is 1600 - 1821 while mine is 1836 - forward.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-43733424225178453242008-03-01T19:20:00.000-06:002008-03-01T19:20:00.000-06:00Liquid,My references are from the MSN Encyclopedia...Liquid,<BR/>My references are from the MSN Encyclopedia, while you are referening Wikipedia (an internet user type blog)Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-66566810100408730562008-03-01T18:34:00.000-06:002008-03-01T18:34:00.000-06:00"To farm the land, however, white settlers would h..."To farm the land, however, white settlers would have to remove the native inhabitants by force."<BR/><BR/>I think you need to do more studying and writing.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Spanish Texas was one of the interior provinces of New Spain from 1690 until 1821. Although Spain nominally claimed ownership of the territory, which comprised part of modern-day Texas, including the land north of the Medina and Nueces Rivers, the Spanish did not attempt to colonize the area until after discovering evidence of the failed French colony of Fort Saint Louis. In 1690, Alonso De León escorted several missionaries to East Texas, where they established the first mission in Texas. When native tribes resisted the Spanish presence, the missionaries returned to Mexico, abandoning Texas for the next two decades.<BR/><BR/>The Spanish returned to East Texas in 1716, establishing several missions and a presidio to maintain a buffer between Mexico and the French territory of Louisiana. Two years later, the first civilian settlement in Texas, San Antonio, was established as a way station between the missions and the nearest existing Spanish settlement. The new town quickly became a target for raids by the Lipan Apache. The raids continued periodically for almost three decades, until in 1749 the Spanish and the Apache made peace. The peace treaty angered the enemies of the Apache and resulted in raids on Spanish settlements by the Comanche, Tonkawa, and Hasinai tribes. Fear of Indian attacks and remoteness from the rest of the viceroyalty discouraged settlers from moving to Texas, and it remained one of the least populated provinces of New Spain. The threat of Indian attacks did not decrease until 1785, when Spain reached a peace agreement with the Comanche, who later assisted in defeating the Lipan Apache and Karankawa tribes which had continued to cause difficulties for Spanish settlers. An increase in the number of missions in the province allowed for a peaceful conversion of other tribes, and by the end of the eighteenth century, only a small number of the hunting and gathering tribes in the area had not been Christianized.<BR/><BR/>France formally relinquished its claim to Texas in 1762, when French Louisiana was ceded to Spain. Louisiana's addition meant that Texas was no longer essential as a buffer province, and the easternmost settlements in Texas were disbanded, with the population relocated to San Antonio. In 1799, however, Spain gave Louisiana back to France, and shortly thereafter Napoleon sold the territory to the United States. U.S. President Thomas Jefferson insisted that the purchase included all land to the east of the Rocky Mountains and to the north of the Rio Grande. The dispute was not resolved until 1819, when Spain traded Florida to the United States in return for recognition of the Sabine River as Texas's eastern boundary.<BR/><BR/>During the Mexican War of Independence from 1810–1821, Texas experienced much turmoil. Governor Manuel María de Salcedo was overthrown by rebels in 1810, but persuaded his jailer to release him and assist him in organizing a countercoup. Three years later, the Republican Army of the North, comprised primarily of Indians and Americans, again overthrew the Texas government and executed Salcedo. The Spanish response was brutal, and by 1820 fewer than 2000 Hispanic citizens remained in Texas. Spain was forced to relinquish their control of New Spain in 1821, and Texas becoming a province of the newly formed nation of Mexico, leading to the period in Texas history known as Mexican Texas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com