tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post8461185332483157089..comments2024-01-04T07:05:27.381-06:00Comments on Immigration Talk with a Mexican American: Experts Predict Arizona "OUT OF BUSINESS!"Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-52311693466284446262007-12-30T10:41:00.000-06:002007-12-30T10:41:00.000-06:00The Congressional Budget committee says so, dee. ...The Congressional Budget committee says so, dee. And I myself have done the math.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-4277893904745509332007-12-30T10:07:00.000-06:002007-12-30T10:07:00.000-06:00No. You both are incorrect. The articles did not s...No. You both are incorrect. The articles did not say "net negative to SOCIETY." Those are your terms PAT.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-51378017027426580792007-12-29T23:49:00.000-06:002007-12-29T23:49:00.000-06:00Yes the studies are clear (1) illegals are a net n...Yes <BR/>the studies are clear <BR/><BR/>(1) illegals are a net negative to society<BR/><BR/>(2) they are a particularly large net negative to unskilled us citizens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-26848155844221145312007-12-29T17:04:00.000-06:002007-12-29T17:04:00.000-06:00I did read all the articles you posted. Illegals ...I did read all the articles you posted. Illegals are still a net negative to our society and they aren't "immigrants".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-55032626713454300802007-12-29T15:24:00.000-06:002007-12-29T15:24:00.000-06:00Pat,1st, read the overall articles I posted. Busin...Pat,<BR/>1st, read the overall articles I posted. Business and Taxes are being LOST. No one disputes this.<BR/><BR/>2nd, the studies conducted and referenced in the article were posted here before. In a nutshell, they indicated both benefits and costs. With newer immigrants the costs of education are the biggest impacts and from the local and state perspective, these costs outweigh the over benefit. However, all recognize that the benifit of education leads to assimilation, leads to higher net profit in the future.<BR/> <BR/><BR/>3. You have to be alert to words in the article which reference the people (ANTI CRITICS) providing the quotes (OPINIONS).<BR/><BR/>Examples: <BR/>. Swain , (a well known) critics of illegal immigration<BR/>. the Center for Immigration Studies, an ANTI-illegal immigration think tank,Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-86606696004970687012007-12-28T23:50:00.000-06:002007-12-28T23:50:00.000-06:00Here is more from the same article, dee.What's the...Here is more from the same article, dee.<BR/><BR/>What's the fiscal burden?<BR/>The Congressional Budget Office recently studied the fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants on state and local governments. It found tax revenues generated from unauthorized residents do not offset the cost of services. Nor does the federal government adequately reimburse local governments for those additional costs.<BR/>It also reports that constitutionally many states have difficulty avoiding those costs. In most states unauthorized immigrants cost states less than 5 percent of the cost to provide citizens those same services. In terms of fiscal deficits, the largest tax burden has been in education, health care and police and fire services.<BR/><BR/>"We, in the public debate, have ignored those costs for too long,” said Carol Swain, a Vanderbilt University Law professor and author. Swain said illegal immigrants strain low-income workers and criticized their advocates for demonizing dissent. Beyond the highly politicized debate, she says people are paying the price. <BR/><BR/>In 2004, the Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-illegal immigration think tank, estimated that the net national impact of illegal immigration to be about $10 billion, roughly 0.09 percent of the annual budget at the time — a relatively low number. <BR/><BR/>What concerns Swain , as well as other critics of illegal immigration is that the benefits of illegal immigration are enjoyed by one group, primarily the businesses that employ them and consumers that use their services. However, the costs are endured by other groups — low-income workers who compete for those jobs and taxpayers.<BR/><BR/>"It's not costless to the nation. It's not simply a win-win, like immigration advocates would like to portray it,” Swain said.<BR/><BR/>The worst hit is native citizens, then law-abiding immigrants, she said.<BR/><BR/>"Those seeking to come to this country legally but cannot because all the attention is focused on one group,” Swain said. "What about the immigrants that are here legally and waiting for green cards and cannot (get them) because the system is clogged up with illegal immigration?”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-23637675145366367412007-12-28T23:06:00.000-06:002007-12-28T23:06:00.000-06:00This from the article called "Hispanics feeling he...This from the article called "Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement":<BR/><BR/>By Devona Walker<BR/>Staff Writer<BR/>Regardless of citizenship status, Hispanics say they are being hurt by the ongoing immigration debate. In contrast, a recent study by the Congressional Budget Office reports that local and state governments are uniformly incurring costs due to the presence of undocumented immigrants.<BR/><BR/>Note the line, "a recent study by the Congressional Budget Office reports that local and state governments are uniformly incurring costs due to the presence of undocumented immigrants."<BR/><BR/>This article doesn't support your views as all, dee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-11969615315524366302007-12-28T19:34:00.000-06:002007-12-28T19:34:00.000-06:00Anon,Here are some articles that talk about the im...Anon,<BR/>Here are some articles that talk about the impact of HR4088 in OK. <BR/><BR/>I´ve been trying to locate articles that tell me there have been increases in the number of American Citizens obtaining jobs and that their salaries have increased due to the change in law. I am not having any luck so far. Just articles talking about the loss of business and jobs. Please let me know if you find any urls in OK that provide your perspective.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://newsok.com/article/3179353/1197347643" REL="nofollow">Capitol Hill feels effect of HB 1804</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://newsok.com/article/3178080/1197028144" REL="nofollow">Arguments heat up over new immigration law</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/opinion/local_story_354181717.html" REL="nofollow">State immigration bill requires some corrections</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://newsok.com/article/3182965/1198132772" REL="nofollow">Hispanics feeling heat of enforcement</A>Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-79559020133404016422007-12-28T19:32:00.000-06:002007-12-28T19:32:00.000-06:00According to a July Census report, there are 54,27...According to a July Census report, there are 54,277,000 Americans ages 16 to 64 who aren't in the labor force. This includes 23 million "less-educated" adults who, for a variety of reasons, don't have a job.<BR/><BR/>Narrowing this down further, there are 14 million people actively seeking employment who can't find a full-time job in today's economy, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. If the supply of illegal workers were to dry up through Arizona's new enforcement programs, employers in the state would be forced to respond by offering higher wages, increased benefits and improved working conditions. Employers would have more incentives to modernize and eliminate unnecessary workers. The result would be a new deal for unskilled American and legal workers because they would be better paid and have more enlightened work environments.<BR/><BR/>Can you imagine it: Shifting the costs of illegal immigrant employment from the taxpayers to the marketplace? <BR/><BR/>Michael Scott - Opinion Piece<BR/><BR/><BR/>I like this part the best: Shifting the costs of illegal immigrant employment from the taxpayers to the marketplace?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-28696874944458986712007-12-28T19:14:00.000-06:002007-12-28T19:14:00.000-06:00I know many construction workers that would be gla...I know many construction workers that would be glad to see the illegals leave. Their wages would go way back up again and they could actually communicate in English on the job again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-76977385446479840122007-12-28T16:13:00.000-06:002007-12-28T16:13:00.000-06:00One could also argue the fact, that if American Ci...One could also argue the fact, that if American Citizens were doing the jobs instead of 'Illegals', then maybe the Citizens wouldn't be losing their homes or be up to their eyeballs in debt. The Americans would have had more money (due to being paid a fair, living wage) to float through the economic quagmire longer, thus lessening the impact that we are seeing today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-27591347342723699242007-12-28T16:01:00.000-06:002007-12-28T16:01:00.000-06:00dee, would you provide us a link to Bernanke's sta...dee, would you provide us a link to Bernanke's statement that says that the 12 million illegal aliens have helped us avoid a recession?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-48723756172019066472007-12-28T14:57:00.000-06:002007-12-28T14:57:00.000-06:00Liquid, If I listen to Bernanke, he says the 12M h...Liquid, If I listen to Bernanke, he says the 12M have helped us AVOID a recession. (I would say "delayed" the inevitable based on our own economy and associated issues)Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-24243298014659344802007-12-28T13:45:00.000-06:002007-12-28T13:45:00.000-06:00I'm not blaming anything on the 'Illegals' then, o...I'm not blaming anything on the 'Illegals' then, or now; can we say repeat recession. It is compared to the same time frame and problems, then and now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-89376672203652480032007-12-28T11:10:00.000-06:002007-12-28T11:10:00.000-06:00Hey Liquid, you can´t blame the recession of the 1...Hey Liquid, you can´t blame the recession of the 1980s on illegal immigration. Remember these words, rosebud, "savings and loan".Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-22671004738776032572007-12-28T11:08:00.000-06:002007-12-28T11:08:00.000-06:00Ok liquid. Truce. Neither of us will join the frin...Ok liquid. Truce. Neither of us will join the fringes. <BR/>(Your John Wayne drawl would probably scare them anyway (LOL)Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-13043619220090587082007-12-28T08:55:00.000-06:002007-12-28T08:55:00.000-06:00As I have asked many times before, why is dee conc...As I have asked many times before, why is dee concentrating on radical fringe groups or isolated incidents of individual misdeeds or alleged misdeeds on the anti side rather than focusing on just plain old law abiding anti's without any kind of a racist agenda? Oh that's right, most of those are white people so they just have to be racists with a superiority complex. They are the all the same to her as the KKK, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-32952600690979409192007-12-27T22:26:00.000-06:002007-12-27T22:26:00.000-06:00I understand your perspective, Dee. I said the oth...I understand your perspective, Dee. I said the other day, "Your heart s in the right place", we all have some sort of digress about the plight of the 'Illegals'. Some are her for survival reasons, others, however are not. We all agree to this. The problem is you believe by legalizing them, that they all want it, while probably the majority does, there are others that don't. By legalizing them, as we did in '86 where only 1.?M were supposed to be Amnestied, we ended up having more than 3.?M legalized. Look at the downfall of the economy during that time. <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_1980s_recession" REL="nofollow">Late 1980s recession</A><BR/><BR/>Whats going to happen now, if we legalize 12M? Will it turn into 24M+ Amnestied? What about the employers and their breaking of the laws for the last 20+ years? Shouldn't they be punished?<BR/><BR/>If we give Amnesty to the 'Illegals', then the employers also get Amnestied. They will not be held accountable for exploitation of the workers, they will not be reprimanded in any sort of way. They will then in turn, hire and exploit the next wave of 'Illeglas' that come over expecting another Amnesty, since we now have given 7 in the past 20 years, whats a few more, right?<BR/><BR/>The employers must be held accountable and penalized, the 'Illegals' are a by product of their cheating and the 'Illegals' own greed. <BR/><BR/>Lets start playing fair, recall or re-negotiate NAFTA and CAFTA to be more fair to the Central and South American Countries, lets lessen and verify our farm sub-sidies, but most of all, Dee, lets be honest with our debating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-2166939254956256352007-12-27T22:13:00.000-06:002007-12-27T22:13:00.000-06:00As for MeCha, you have to be a Chicon@/Latin@/Hisp...As for MeCha, you have to be a Chicon@/Latin@/Hispanic to be a member, yet they have no membership page on any of their sites.<BR/><BR/>How about we drop the whole to do about the fringe groups, since you, nor I, will agree with what they do on the opposite side.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-35836807599603454742007-12-27T22:09:00.000-06:002007-12-27T22:09:00.000-06:00Well, maybe we can think of something. One Week de...Well, maybe we can think of something. One Week dedicated to the other perspective, just to see how much we learn and if our perspectives change.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-1151509846273991062007-12-27T22:02:00.000-06:002007-12-27T22:02:00.000-06:00Actually I tried to join NCLR, except they don't h...Actually I tried to join NCLR, except they don't have a membership, you can only donate monies to them. Needless to say, they will not be getting my time to send them money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-31324667915862339842007-12-27T22:00:00.000-06:002007-12-27T22:00:00.000-06:00dee, discontinue twisting my words and making raci...dee, discontinue twisting my words and making racist comments against whites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-257846747504152642007-12-27T21:57:00.000-06:002007-12-27T21:57:00.000-06:00Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,For such an intelligent ma...Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,<BR/>For such an intelligent man, you have so many strong, biased opinions.<BR/><BR/>I would like to see the both of us spend a week working in an organization for the other side.<BR/><BR/>You need to spend a week as an NCLR or MECHA member.<BR/><BR/>I should spend a week as an MM. <BR/><BR/>Hmmmmm.. I wonder if we would both have different perspectives after the experiences.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583438645860375661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-1859382666391168912007-12-27T21:56:00.000-06:002007-12-27T21:56:00.000-06:00Back peddling again dee by bringing up radical org...Back peddling again dee by bringing up radical organizations now? Here is what you actually said. Notice the generalities that you used against whites? These are racist statements!<BR/><BR/>Quote dee:<BR/><BR/>"There is a SENSE OF SUPERIORITY by the ANGLOS and Northern European ethnicities in our Society.<BR/><BR/>We all KNOW IT.<BR/><BR/>Don´t pretend you don´t.<BR/><BR/>The Elitism resides in the Northern Europeans.<BR/><BR/>You All always think you are Superior."<BR/><BR/>I rest my case dee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5548695401579410439.post-10876077257179794662007-12-27T21:35:00.000-06:002007-12-27T21:35:00.000-06:00Dee says:Big Business and the Administration, thos...Dee says:<BR/>Big Business and the Administration, those you call Elites, do not want CIR.<BR/><BR/><BR/>OOOOHHHHH, RRRRREEEEEAAAALLLYYYYYYYYYY.<BR/><BR/>Obviously you don't know which Corporate conglomerates back the likes of NCLR, MeCHA and various other PRO groups that were wanting CIR to pass. Do some research as to who puts monies into the pockets of these groups.<BR/><BR/>For someone so learned of the immigration battle, you surely lack in some of the basic knowledge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com