I had several good and interesting conversations with many of my nieces and nephews this week. As with most people, each of my relatives have varying opinions about issues.My nephew "L" is a career military man in his early forties. He is a recruiting sargeant. He is about 5´11", very fit, with a booming, newsman voice. He looks a little like my Dad as a young man. (click on book link and scroll to bottom of page). L has had two tours in Iraq and may be going back again later this year.
My niece "R" is former military. She proudly calls herself a "housewife", married to her husband for 20 years. She is also in her early forties. Her oldest son is currently in Iraq.
A number of us were in my nephews hotel room, quietly visiting and reminiscing. Then the conversation turned to politics and Iraq. The exchange was quite strong between L and R.
L is Republican. He believes the Republicans pay for and support the military and it is important that Republicans stay in office. Right or wrong, we are in Iraq and no one should ever vocalize arguments against our being there because this only helps the enemy cause.
R is Democrat. She strongly believes we should not be in Iraq although she supported the deployment to Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden after 9-11.
To listen to the two of them argue back and forth, my heart filled with pride, knowing that our next generation is well informed and ready to take over for all of us.
It was interesting to find out (though I could have guessed) that L was for McCain and R for Hillary. This leads me to believe they will be the two candidates in November.
God bless the patriotic folks in your family Dee. They do our nation proud by serving in the armed forces.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how you feel about the current situation in Iraq, there will be wars that America has to fight in the future, and it is good to have young folks willing to give it all for their country
Dee do you have any relatives in the border patrol? How do they feel about that job? is it as much a point of pride as serving in the military?
Let me put it another way, if a compromise comes, and perhaps 9 million of the 20 million undocumented are made in to US citizens, and as part of that compromise you commit to strict enforcement of the border, what do you mean by that ?
In other words, if the border patrol catches 100 thousand folks a year in Arizona and other border states, people that just crossed the border, what do you advocate be done with the 100 thousand people?
Put it another way, how do you Dee advocate that they be treated so that they are treated with humanity and compassion but yet punished enough so that they stop trying to cross the border
please be specific on this point since it is such a difficult one
My nephew L has a very interesting career. He is a career military man, and currently a recruiter. As I mentioned, he also served 2 tours in Iraq. Plus, he shared that he has served some time on the Border as well, in another assignment, follow the artillery as they drove across the country. This, of course, to protect the public and prevent any attacks on this equipment. So in response to your question, he shared he did spend some time on the border. All those he knows serve border protection very proudly.
ReplyDeleteMy whole family is proud of L´s service. We have many, many relatives who have served in the military and we are very proud of them as well.
While we all agree our relatives - loved ones, serve proudly, where some of us disagree is regarding whether we should be in Iraq.
L is the son of my sister whose husband is a career military man. I lived with her and helped raise her son while her husband served in Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteI think people in general have great pride in serving in the military or in protecting the border.
ReplyDeleteI do have a cousin who works in a Detention Center here in Texas. She tells us of the deplorable conditions in those centers. She has a good job and does her best to help, but the problem is the centers themselves but she is limited in what she can do since she supports and manages the food service. Whole Families are imprisoned. These are private prisons. Tent Prisons. Deplorable Conditions.
Let me summarize my response to you:
ReplyDeleteOur Family is:
1. Proud of the Military and Supports our Troops and family members serving. (American Patriotism)
2. Proud of the Border Patrol and support them and family members serving. (Secure Borders)
3. Keep informed of what is happening in our country and abroad and form our opinions based on knowledge.
4. Do NOT support the deplorable conditions of the Detention Center but do stay informed about real events and real conditions in those centers.
ok
ReplyDeletei respect very much what you are saying
the conditions today are inhumane
but you really haven't yet answered my question
let's say that get everything you want - most of the undocumented are legalized and become us citizens
you Dee are appointed head of the border patrol
you catch 100 thousand people a year sneaking across the border. No matter how hard you try you keep catching 100 thousand
what do you do with the 100 thousand
Dee, i think this is a legitimate question
Anon,
ReplyDeleteAs Ive said, I am in full support of secure borders, drawing the line and saying no new illegal immigrants. Only legal immigrants going forward. My concern is what to do about those here.
Also, Anon, they only come because they are brought here and or hired by the employers. We must severely sanction and imprison hiring employers.
Dee, i am sorry i didn't express myself clearly.
ReplyDeleteLet's say that there are 20 million find hardworking undocumented folks here in the usa today.
Let's say that all 20 million are given a path to citizenship and 19 million become US citizens.
let's say that they have 40 million relatives back in the home countries
Let's say that their relatives back in the home countries really don't like the lifestyle in the home countries and come visit on tourist visas. They legally enter the usa.
then the relatives decide not to go back home - they just overstay their tourist visas and live with their relatives that are us citizens.
let's say that the wages available in the home countries are so low that these relatives want to stay in the usa even with no job . so there is no employer that is hiring them, it is just their relatives the us citizens letting them stay as houseguests, just helping out around the house i guess cleaning and watching the kids.
Dee, I am asking in a sincere way, you are the head of the border patrol - what do you do about this
i mean it is a tough quandry. you absolutely must be humane . but what do you do ?
Dee,
ReplyDeletelet me be clear, i don't think in the scenario i am laying out that anyone is acting in a cruel or unfair manner. the scenario is the result of people just being people.
Let's be clear - we all agree that bringing the 20 million out of the shadows and making them citizens ends their exploitation. the employers pay them a higher wage and they can save money and live the american dream. All good things. Many of them will be able to buy nice sized houses with plenty of space - i mean it is only natural that if their relatives back in the old country want to crash with them for a few years they will say yes.
there is no guilty evil employer here - just people being people.
be clear with us, what enforcement actions do you take, if any
Although the issue of the 12-20 million illegals, some of whom would do us great harm, remains unsolved. Anon's question is legitimate. What actions are required to seal the border and what do you do with new violators who somehow manage to enter our country anyway?
ReplyDeleteI have expounded at length on this subject. The head of the border patrol cannot do everything that needs to be done. Let's postulate a Republican president who supports secure borders and directs a new appointee as heads of DHS and INS to make it happen. Let's further postulate that Dee is appointed to one of these critical positions with the charge of "making it happen". I too would like to know what steps she would take and how far she is willing to go to secure the borders through improvements in physical and virtual barriers and infrastructure, more border patrol agents, the creation of disincentives for border violation , and a humane but firm procedure for dealing with those who still manage to slip through the net and those who are repeat offenders in this regard.
This is the kind of charge the Secretary of DHS should have. Now is the time for Dee to tell us how she would handle that job in as much detail as she can using all of her skills as a facilitator, etc.
This is important because, based on past experience, no one believes the government is prepared to do what it takes. The assimilation of the 12-20 million will leave the employers hungry for more cheap labor and therefore the pressure at the border will be unabated if we indulge in mass legalization. That is another issue related to secure borders.
With all due respect Ulty,
ReplyDeleteI request that you put aside your question for a minute.
I mean most people on this board seem to have a mental picture in their mind of the border and of people crossing at great risk
In many ways, patrolling the border is an "easy" answer for all of us.
It is much tougher when you talk about people legally entering the us on tourist visas and moving in with their families in the us and just never going home.
i mean, i don't want to hear an answer from dee with regard to the border. I want to hear an answer that deals with what happens after the 20 million people are made in to us citizens and they are wonderful law abiding good neighbors that we are happy to have here, but they let their relatives legally visit the us and overstay their tourist visas and just move in to the guest bedroom or something.
The relatives don't need to get jobs, so there is no employer to punish. is there a punishment for the us citizen who provides a guest bedroom for his relatives or what
With all due respect to all sides here and all posters here, I would like to give Dee ample space to answer this.
I would also like to know what dee's answer is to both Ultima and anon's questions. I have a feeling that dee will not answer them. She doesn't want to "pull out all the stops" to secure our border and she would think it inhumane to deport any new illegals that get thru and/or overstay their visas after an amnesty occured for the first 12-20 million already here. Mark my word, I know dee's agenda.
ReplyDeleteDee - i respectfully ask your answer to my question posted before
ReplyDelete__
Let's be clear - we all agree that bringing the 20 million out of the shadows and making them citizens ends their exploitation. the employers pay them a higher wage and they can save money and live the american dream. All good things. Many of them will be able to buy nice sized houses with plenty of space - i mean it is only natural that if their relatives back in the old country want to crash with them for a few years they will say yes.
there is no guilty evil employer here - just people being people.
____
Dee, since it is obvious that after the 20 million are legalized it is only natural that their relatives from their country of birth will visit them on legal tourist visas, stay with them, enjoy all the good things that america has to offer.
It is only natural that some of these relatives will decide that they are better off staying in america as permanent houseguests (not getting employment) rather than going back to their home country.
Dee, a few years after the 20 million are legalized, if there are millions of houseguests that just overstay their tourist visas, what do you do about them.
Remember Dee, this question assumes you get absolutely 100% of your stated wish list
(1) legalization for the 20 million
(2) strict employer sanctions
(3) border enforcement
Dee, you get 100% of your agenda.
AND
you are appointed to some senior us government post.
What do you do about the houseguests that decide to stay?
McCain said he wasn't about to deport the illegal alien mother of a soldier serving in Iraq. He should have said, "No one wants to deport the illegal parents of soldiers serving in Iraq but all the others are fair game and should be apprehended, detained and deported systematically based on ssn duplicate and mismatch letters." Where is Obama on this? Where is Hillary? Will they destroy this country through mass legalization or mass amnesty? The candidates all need to address these questions forthrightly in clear unmistakable terms.
ReplyDeleteCandidates also need to address the question of sustainable growth and the long term consequences of present immigration policies, including birthright citizenship and chain immigrations, and our failure to control our borders. This is something the next generation should be insisting upon before voting for any candidate.
ReplyDeleteSecure borders means secure borders. That is, secure borders does not mean we seal them off and build a mile high, 2000 mile wall on each border and seal ourselves off from the world.
ReplyDeleteSecure borders mean we have established an orderly process for people to enter and exit legally with proper documentation validated and approved for each entrant.
Today our borders, ports, terminals are pourous. Based on what ICE has said, the southern border is probably our most secure right now. Illegal immigrants and terrorist fly into our country with false documentation. That is the biggest problem. Our Northern border is pourous.
Secure borders means we have trained personell (BPs, terminal guards, airport security, etc) have the tools (electronic and other) to validate proper documentation and all entry.
I believe in Innovation. If I werw a member of Homeland Security I would recommend enhanced measures of security for visitors. To be innovative would be to add some means of tracking those that visit with some type electronic identification.
Now to answer the 2nd part of your question. We have 12 - 20M illegal immigrants here. Of course their relatives visit today, many legally through tourist visas. What I would recommend once we establish some type of legalization for those qualified, we have secure IDs, both for the newly legal as well as the Innovative measures I called for above for all visitors.
Oh, what an exaggeration, dee. There is no "mile high" 2,000 mile wall that was approved. Only a double fenced barrier about 700 miles long. How would we be sealing ourselves off from the world with that? We don't border the entire world! Can't you pros ever speak the truth?
ReplyDeleteWe already have a legal way to enter so what you are suggesting is nothing new. It isn't enough and that is the point. These illegals aren't coming in the legal way because we don't have enough physical barriers to stop them from coming illegally. The Border Patrol needs these physical barriers to assist them. In fact we need the National Guard down there too. No, under your plan we won't have secure borders just more of the same.
Dee
ReplyDeletei very much respect what you are saying. just help me think it through.
OK - so let's say that a million people overstay their tourist visas and move in with their relativs that are us citizens
we know they have overstayed due to this great id plan you put in place
how do you get the million people out - do you have the police visit the house of their relatives looking for them?
do you put the relatives that hide them in jail ? i mean the relatives are us citizens - do you put us citizens in jail for hiding their relatives who are not us citizens
dee be specific, since i don't understand exactly what you would do with millions and millions of people who come in on tourist visas and then just hide out with relatives