As I read through the comments of my blogs about this tragedy, it is becoming abundantly clear to me that some people are NOT understanding the course of events of that horrible evening. I decided to create a pictorial of what occurred that night, from Court Testimony & witness statements, in the hopes it will allow people to understand the deplorable nature of events which occured that tragic night.
May Justice be served!
References:
1st-, 2nd-degree murder charges tossed in death of Ramirez
Witness Testimony (including Eileen Burke, retired Police Officer, neighbor)
Update: Two teenagers accused in the beating death of an illegal immigrant in Schuylkill County will be tried as adults. 17-year-old Colin Walsh and 16- year-old Brandon Piekarsky had asked to be tried as juveniles - but now they've dropped their bids. They now have the right to a jury trial. Walsh and Piekarsky are accused of beating Luis Ramirez while yelling racial slurs last month in Shenandoah. He died a short time later. They are charged with third degree murder and ethnic intimidation.
Your picture story isn't enlarging and it isn't very readable due to that. Try to fix it, please.
ReplyDeleteI see you 'added' some additional words to what was said to Ramirez by Scully in the little balloon. Always 'adding' more to what there was to push an agenda, how telling.
ReplyDeleteYou are missing the entire Arielle Garcia statement:
ReplyDelete"ARIELLE GARCIA: He was at our house all day that afternoon. And it was around maybe 11:00, he asked us to take him uptown to drop him off, whatever, he was going to go home. So, we leave him at the Vine Street Park, and we drive away, Victor and I, and about two minutes later he called us and told us to come back, that people were beating him up. So we get back as fast as we could. And when we get there, he was—like the fight was over, like the boys were walking away, but they were still screaming like racial slurs, like “Go back to Mexico!”
And so, Victor and I ran up to Luis, and we said, “What happened?” But he was so mad, he wasn’t really talking to us. And those kids kept yelling stuff, and he went back, and the kids turned around, and the fight started again. So Victor, my husband, tried to like stop the fight. He tried to get the kids off of Luis, but kids were trying to fight my husband. So my husband got the kids off of him, and we couldn’t stop the fight between Luis and the—but next thing we know, Luis was on the floor. And so, me and Victor, we ran up to his side, and we were at his side. We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like kicking him and kicking him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they kicked him like in the left side of his head so hard that that’s what killed him."
You missed this very important part:
"But he was so mad, he wasn’t really talking to us. And those kids kept yelling stuff, and he (Ramirez) went back, and the kids turned around, and the fight started again.
Add in Garcia's statements to get a clearer picture.
You are also forgetting this very important witness testimony:
ReplyDelete"They also repeatedly pointed out that Ramirez had several chances to leave the park -- witnesses testified Dillman's half-sister loudly told him to do so -- and that he was an aggressor in the fight."
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteLet me help you. Go to the bottom right of the screen and you can enlarge the screen. Currently it probably says 100%. Raise it to 150%.
Second, AS I SAID, I am going by Lawsons COURT Testimony and I am also going by the articles detailing what the neighborhood witness, former police officer said.
I DID NOT want to slant what occurred.
THIS Pictoral is unbiased!
It CLEARLY SHOWS how Ramirez was outnumbered and murdered by these Jocks!!
Pictures say more than a thousand words!!
I hope the Prosecutor BRINGS IN THE PICTURES!! Especially the part about the woods and the Fire Station! These young hoodlums were on a MISSION to hurt people and their RACE CRIME is clearly obvious!!
It does not show a complete or a clear picture as you have left out witness testimony and statements made by Garcia that substantiate the facts. You have missed some very important facts, and by leaving all the facts out, you only paint the picture YOU want people to see, you are still trying to substantiate your judgment of murder when the charges are CRIMINAL HOMICIDE.
ReplyDeleteAs for enlarging I did, it becomes very blurry as enlarges, what format or document is it in? Word, PDF, JPEG?
You need to fix this discrepancy, "It took weeks for the perpetrators to be charged" to read "that it only took 13 days" which is one week, not weeks or change it to "it took almost two weeks". Your credibility is going out the window very quickly when it comes to actual facts and statements!
ReplyDelete"it is becoming abundantly clear to me that some people are NOT understanding the course of events of that horrible evening"
ReplyDeleteOR, maybe you don't understand the course of events since you left out some very important parts of it in your picturama. Maybe that's why you also judge these boys for murder, your misunderstanding of the facts of the time line.
This depicts the exact series of event as explained by the hero Lawson!
ReplyDeleteIt clearly shows the events the perpetrators followed that evening and the eye witness testimony as provided in court.
That is why the assailants are going to trial for Murder.
Chances to leave? As in when Ms. Dillman asked him to please run away from the gang that was beating Ramirez up? I have captured this, per Lawsons testimony.
ReplyDeleteYour problem, Liquid, is you KNOW that once people SEE what happened, they will realize that Ramirez was by himself when this gang of Jocks beat the hexx out of him and kicked him in the head until they murdered him while these jocks all hurled racial slurs at him.
ReplyDeleteAll very clear in the Testimony.
These pictures depict the exact testimony (link below):
ReplyDeleteIn a six-hour preliminary hearing, Joseph Benjamin Lawson Jr., 17, testified he and the five others in the group drank liquor in the woods before going to the Polish-American Fire Company block party, where they argued with a firefighter about ''messing around'' with other football players.
All three of the accused played on Shenandoah Valley High School's football team last year. Donchak was the quarterback. Lawson testified that, at the block party, Donchak was especially angry.
As they walked to Donchak's house, he testified, they came across Ramirez and Dillman's half-sister, Roxanne, 15, at the park. According to Lawson, another teen, Brian Scully, who has not been charged, said to the girl, ''Isn't it a little late for you to be out?''
The girl didn't answer, but Ramirez replied in Spanish, and Scully replied, ''This is Shenandoah, this is America, go back to Mexico,'' and used racial slurs. The two began fighting, Lawson said.
Donchak hurried to join in, Lawson testified. Ramirez went down and the others stood around him, kicking him to the head and torso, Lawson said. But it was after Ramirez got up, while fighting with Donchak, that Lawson said Walsh ran up and sucker-punched him in the face.
Ramirez fell to the ground with such force his head bounced off the macadam, leaving him unconscious. Then Piekarsky administered a final kick to the head, Lawson said.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_1racial.6551902aug19,0,7741254.story?page=1
Ben Lawson, the fellow football player, IS A HERO for telling the Truth!!
ReplyDeleteThe testimony of Lawson that you are using only depicts parts of the actual events. There are more eye witness testimony in that article you are leaving out that isn't represented in your pictagraph, which I pointed out. You also forgot to mention the very important fact that Ramirez was twice the legal limit for being drunk along with having benzo in his system.
ReplyDeleteThey have been charged with CRIMINAL HOMICIDE!!!! We will wait until the actual court records are made public at which point, when the charges are clearly shown, you will publicly apologize for your prejudice and judgment of these boys by calling their crime MURDER.
The article of reference only gives specific highlight to the full testimony, so please try again. Put all the statements and witness testimony together to get the clear picture. What are you so afraid of having people see?? the truth??
ReplyDeletePoor Liquid! You realize a picture is worth a thousand words. Seeing how the drunk, drunk, angry jocks picked on and outnumbered Ramirez is very clear in the visual.
ReplyDeleteI will be happy to provide these pix to the prosecutors!
Let Justice Prevail!! And those guilty of this awful HATE Crime be punished!
You are also forgetting that the hero Lawson provided testimony that the jocks drank all those 40s in the woods that night. Their blood alcohol must have been, at a minimum, 2.0!! Plus, being young, their tolerance is so low.
ReplyDeleteSend the pictures to the prosecution, they might try to use it, it could make you famous. Again you assume that the boys are lightweights when it comes to drinking, who knows, they may be alcoholics. Actually in the testimony he says he drank two 40 oz of malt liquor, "Lawson testified he had been with Donchak and Piekarsky since 6 p.m. on the evening July 12, drinking in the woods in Shenandoah and later meeting up with Walsh."
ReplyDeleteThere goes your credibility again, at least get the given information correct, will you.
"He said he drank two 40-ounce bottles and was intoxicated."
ReplyDeleteEvery article I have read has this very sentence.
The drunk jocks picked on a girl, and when the drunk and drugged Ramirez goaded back a fight ensued.
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
ReplyDeleteYou are just repeating what I said. He admits he drank those 40s of malt liquor in the woods.
He admitted to drinking, at a minimum, 80 ounces of alcohol! Plus they are underage. Most doctors will tell you the tolerance of underage drinkers, young teenagers, in most cases, is much lower than experienced adults.
I am glad you agree. The Prosecutors should utilize pictures to illustrate the six drunk jocks terrorizing the young couple!
ReplyDeleteYour statement:
ReplyDelete"Lawson provided testimony that the jocks drank all those 40s in the woods that night."
I clarified what you were trying to state.
Your statement:
"Plus, being young, their tolerance is so low."
Again, you have no idea. They may be experienced alcoholics.
"I am glad you agree. The Prosecutors should utilize pictures to illustrate the six drunk jocks terrorizing the young couple!"
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the defense also gets to use it, and they will poke hole after hole in it just as I have due to witness testimony and statements made by witness's at the fight, such as Mrs. Garcia.
Dee said...
ReplyDeleteYour problem, Liquid, is you KNOW that once people SEE what happened, they will realize that Ramirez was by himself when this gang of Jocks beat the hexx out of him and kicked him in the head until they murdered him while these jocks all hurled racial slurs at him.
All very clear in the Testimony.
August 22, 2008 8:15 PM
Then where does the Garcia's come into play?? What of there statements?? What of Mr. Garcia being involved in the fight??
I would hardly call someone testifying what they saw during a crime, a hero. No need for melodramatics and terminology that doesn't fit the act.
ReplyDeleteOf course he is a hero. Can you imagine how he is being chastised by the perpetrators on the football team? It takes courage to tell the truth in these circumstances. He IS a hero, be definition!
ReplyDeleteI disagree and the dictionary would also. He was being honest but that doesn't qualify him as a hero.
ReplyDeleteKeep posting on this hate crime. The fact that you are pissing some bigots off means you're doing the right thing.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how these people can sleep at night knowing that they beat someone to death.
Anon, I guess you are accusing Dee of Bigotry since the definition states:
ReplyDeletea person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Since it is she who continues to call the charge MURDER and is showing her OPINIONATED PREJUDICE towards a group of boys that are of the same RACIAL ETHNICITY (white) and her vial hatred to read and report the actual facts and statements of all the persons involved to create a clear picture of the actual crime of CRIMINAL HOMICIDE!!
But then maybe your ignorance of understanding comprehension and the actual verbiage of the law blinds your own views for which it is easier to blame others.
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteWe have discussed countless cases on my blog and I have to say I have never seen you take a case so personally. You chastise everyone who disagrees with you. Even OOV who generally is on the same side you are on.
As a reminder, I started this Blog for one reason and it is stated in my Blogs Mission:
"To provide a forum where people, both PRO and ANTI, can discuss American Immigration Issues and Political Issues civilly, freely and safely thereby reducing the hate, anger and misunderstandings currently inherent in most of these discussions."
--------
I am proud to say I am glad we have so many active participants and viewers on my blog.
It is all about semantics, Dee. You are YELLING "MURDER!!!" about this case, when the boys have and are being charged with CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. The highest they can be found guilty of is 3rd Degree Murder, the lowest they could be found guilty of is Involuntary Manslaughter.
ReplyDeleteBy yelling "MURDER!!!", you have pre-judged these boys, even though you always claim to want fair and equal justice for all. Why is it you can't let these boys be tried for their crimes and let the jury decide?? Allow all the facts to be presented.
You have missed the whole time line, there is a lot more to it that you have left out and you know it. You are claiming to be using Lawson's testimony from the preliminary hearing, yet you are not using all of it. You are only using the picked parts from the MSM. A preliminary hearing is only to decide if a trial will go further or be dropped and at which the judge decides, not whether the defendant is "guilty" or "not guilty," but whether there is enough evidence to force the defendant to stand trial. In making this determination, the judge uses the "probable cause" legal standard, deciding whether the government has produced enough evidence to convince a reasonable jury that the defendant committed the crime(s) charged. Add in the eye-witness accounts and statements of Areille Garcia for which it changes your entire timeline.
You also forget, that the MSM only highlights parts of the information, and you are trying to capitalize on it to justify your statements of "MURDER!!!". Hence my question to you: Would YOU be satisfied if the jury came back and found guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter? It has nothing to do with overall satisfaction, only if you would be fine with that conclusion? So, would you??
I am not chastising everybody that disagrees with me, in fact we agree on most things about this case, it's just You and those who think like you, are making judgment calls vs doing what you are claiming in allowing the justice system to do its job, you have pre-determined guilt and have called for these boys to spend there lives behind bars, others are yelling for them to be raped by the Hispanics while in jail. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Same as you did with the Jena 6 case and your racial claims, for which you were found to be in the wrong by our justice system and the actual facts and truth.
ReplyDeleteLiquid, The timeline I used came from YOUR link.
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
ReplyDeleteYou are truly out in left field.
I have said from day 1, let Justice be served. Let the courts decide. Go back and read what I said. Let Justice be served.
Also, I have said STOP THE VIOLENCE and EVERYONE SHOULD GET ALONG, IN PEACE.
Do not put words in my mouth. I always say the same thing. Justice, Peace and ALL to Get Along!
It came from my link??, an "ARTICLE" written by the MSM covering only the highlights of the prelim testimony of Lawson. That's all any of the articles due. Lawsons testimony is not used in its entirety as it has not been published. Like I said, when it all comes out at trial, we will see what the actual facts and time line truly are.
ReplyDeleteYou are being chastised, as I have repeatedly stated, for YELLING they are GUILTY/CHARGED OF MURDER and that it is a RACIALLY MOTIVATED HATE CRIME!! This is only your opinion, yet you have never stated that it is your opinion. You have even placed it in your headlines, leading anybody who reads your STATEMENTS that these boys are already judged and deemed guilty by you.
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteA young man is Dead!
It is a crime.
The judge has ruled sufficient evidence was presented they are going to trial for Murder-Homicide and Ethnic Intimidation.
The racial slurs used during the Ethnic Intimidation can be considered a Hate Crime.
These are the Facts as represented in Court Proceedings.
From Day 1 I have said, "Let Justice Be Served! Let the Courts try this case!"
You can goad and goad all you want but I will continue to say the same thing.
I also pray for Peace in their community and the end to Violence and Hate. As I have said We ALL Need to Get Along!!
You still do it... They are going to trial for CRIMINAL HOMICIDE!!! It is not MURDER. You keep proving everything I state about what you are doing. I don't know how else to explain it rather than to tell you to call an attorney and have him explain it to you, maybe you would believe an attorney over me (even though he's going to tell you the same thing I have).
ReplyDeleteThey are only "SOME!!!" of the facts presented in the prelim, not all the facts.
Why should the courts try the case when you have already deemed them guilty of murder and racial hate??
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteAs I said,
A young man is Dead!
It is a crime.
The judge has ruled sufficient evidence was presented they are going to trial for Murder-Homicide and Ethnic Intimidation.
The racial slurs used during the Ethnic Intimidation can be considered a Hate Crime.
OK Dee, what is Murder-Homicide??? The charge is Criminal Homicide not Murder-Homicide. You are still implying they are guilty of murder with your prejudice, which contradicts anything beyond that in which you claim to want the courts to decide the case.
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
ReplyDeleteAs I said,
A young man is Dead!
It is a crime.
The criminals will be punished.
Let Justice be served!
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteDont you care about the young man who died? Dont you care that his death was due to an act of drunken violence perpetrated by these jocks? Dont you care at all about the victim?
Are you truly that heartless????
And that final Kick in the Head! I think it was heinous! No reason for it!!! Dont you think that criminal should be charged and penalized?
ReplyDeleteAre you truly that much in denial???
I am in denial of nothing Dee, you fail to comprehend anything I have stated in this discussion of this topic or the other.
ReplyDeleteWe all agree this was a crime, we all agree these boys should be punished, we all agree it was tragic what happened to Ramirez.
The argument I have with you is your prejudice in judging these boys for murder on one side of your mouth while at the same time yelling let justice decide, which contradicts your statements.
You also fail to state that Ramirez, too, was drunk and had a chemical drug in his system. You are only giving one side of the argument, trying to justify your prejudice. You are attempting to turn this into a racial division when you nor I know all the facts.
We agree on many things of this case, however I use all the facts and statements to come to my opinion of these boys will probably be found guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter vs 3rd degree murder. But as I stated, that is my opinion which is much different than what you state as this is a case of murder and hate.
Dee said...
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
As I said,
A young man is Dead!
It is a crime.
The criminals will be punished.
Let Justice be served!
August 24, 2008 3:34 PM
You and I agree 100% in these statements.
This case is far from unique or has everyone forgotten Jena, LA where a white boy was set upon by several Blacks, knocked out and kicked in the head several times. He could easily have died.
ReplyDeleteAt the University of Colorado a white student was set upon by a gang of several teenagers, severely beaten and kicked in the head. He was permanently impaired mentally and never returned to school.
The son of a colleague of mine was hit on the head with a brick by some Blacks and was never the same afterwards and finally committed suicide.
My son's hair was set on fire by a burly Black.
The underdevelopment of young brains is clearly evident in these incidents but is there more to it than that?
With your Filadelphia article (Al Dia News), now I see where you get your arguments from.
ReplyDeleteNothing like a racially biased news link article to get your prejudice from for which you claim as truth and factual. When there 'interpretation' is proven wrong through a jury trial, are they going to riot?? because like you they believe Ramirez was "MURDERED"?? Will the courts justice be enough?? Will your ilk be ok with a charge of Inv. Manslaughter?? What if they are found innocent of that charge and Ramirez is shown as the aggressor due to going back after the boys after round 1??
Ulty,
ReplyDeleteBased on your feedback, I think you get it much more than Liquid does.
These young men committed a crime and should be punished. End of story. It MAY be due to a multiple of root causes, one or all. Some alcohol and drugs. Some prejudice. Some hate. Some youth. Some lack of brain cell development.
But the facts are, they need to be charged, tried and punished.
That is all I have said from Day 1!!
The issue initially is, the police chief said they were good young boys, he knew the families, and he was reticent in charging them.
I wanted them charged and let Justice be served.
Actually Dee, Ulty was making a point, I don't think you understood it at all. Look to the Jena 6 case, I alluded to it earlier in this topic, your claim of a racial motivated crime and it all started with the nooses, was proven wrong. It was nothing more than a fight between boys that others got involved in simply due to the 'white' boy goading them earlier. The only thing that went to far was trying to try the 'black' boys with 2nd degree murder, when they should have been tried for assault off the get go.
ReplyDelete