The two sides of the Immigration Debate are changing faces. It is no longer ANTI vs PRO or America vs Mexico, now, the two sides are depicted as Economic Prosperity vs Anti-Immigration. The side whose strategy is to Improve the Economy is winning, hands-down!Immigration Fight Has a New Target
Stewart Hurts Pr. William's Prospects With Harsh Rhetoric, Some Say
By Kristen MackWashington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 20, 2008
When Prince William Board of County Supervisors Chairman Corey A. Stewart dressed down the police chief for hosting a public meeting with the Mexican consul to discuss the county's controversial immigration policy, Elena Schlossberg-Kunkel was appalled. Schlossberg-Kunkel, a Haymarket activist who had supported Stewart since 2006, and several other county residents showed up at a recent board meeting and demanded Stewart apologize to Chief Charlie T. Deane. Her voice pleading, Schlossberg-Kunkel admonished Stewart for his harsh rhetoric on immigration, which she said threatened to ruin the county's reputation. "You were in my home for a fundraiser. I felt like I knew you," she said. "I don't know the person you are anymore, Corey."
She is not alone in her concern. Elected officials and business leaders in Prince William say they are worried that the county's focus on illegal immigration is hurting Prince William's image at a critical time in its growth and effort to remake itself.
Virginia's second-largest county had been known for years as a center of cheap housing and bargain shopping. But in recent years, Prince William leaders have tried to change course by attracting high-tech employers, building luxury homes and supporting good schools much as neighboring Loudoun and Fairfax counties have done. Now, several supervisors in both parties and business leaders said, those efforts could be set back if county officials do not shift their focus from illegal immigration, which has divided the community and brought Prince William negative national exposure. ("The Road to Dystopia," one newspaper said of the crackdown.)
After a bitter, months-long debate, the eight-member board voted unanimously in the fall to increase law enforcement and deny some services to illegal immigrants. Although no one wants to repeal the policy, some supervisors and other officials said they wish the county -- especially Stewart -- would stop dwelling on it.
County business leaders have created "image committees" to examine the direction Prince William is heading. Now, some analysts said, the economic downturn makes it a bad time to carry out the immigration measures.
"It undermines the image of the county as a good place to invest," said Stephen Fuller, director of the Center for Regional Analysis at George Mason University. "The political environment has made people feel unwelcome."
County business leaders have created "image committees" to examine the direction Prince William is heading. Now, some analysts said, the economic downturn makes it a bad time to carry out the immigration measures.
"It undermines the image of the county as a good place to invest," said Stephen Fuller, director of the Center for Regional Analysis at George Mason University. "The political environment has made people feel unwelcome."
Your heading should be Business vs. Illegal Immigration.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Kunkel seems to think if there are no "Illegal Immigrants" in PWC, then Corporations will not look to make business there. Define economic downturn, is it that Hispanic business that caters to the "Illegal Immigration Population" that is having the downturn? Or is it regular business? How much of it can be contributed to the slowing of the economy?
"Prince William, which has one of the fastest-growing Hispanic populations in the region, has been among the most aggressive jurisdictions on the matter. This month, the county's board of supervisors approved a measure that would curb illegal immigrants' access to public services and require local police to verify residency status of anyone in custody suspected of being in the country illegally.
...
Some business owners expressed frustration over difficulties in ensuring that the workers they hire are legal."
"In Manassas, a restaurant owner said, business is off 50 percent. At the Mexico Lindo Market, the parking lot is only half-full. The staff's cut in half too. No one seems to know how many people are leaving, though many worry they may be forced to follow."
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteMany locations that are enforcing restrictionist immigration laws are feeling the economic impacts. It is the ANTI groups pushing the laws, but when the vast majority of the local community begin to understand the economic impacts imposed upon them, then the react-respond to the initiators of the restrictionist laws.
We are seeing it happen over and over and over again.
You are equating the Economic impact to "Illegal Immigration", you have yet to answer or respond to how much of it is contributed to "Illegal Immigration" or how much of it is due to the economy itself. Everything I have read is only impacting the Hispanic business.
ReplyDeleteZeezil,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to my blog. Interesting you took a break away from alipac.us to come visit us here.
The report you are referencing was published in the "Social Contract" Press founded by the godfather of the ANTIs, John Tanton. I also saw VDare´s Peter Brimlowe (another extremist) giving the report a thumbs up. Of course these are ANTI extremists. Not much credibility here. In fact, SPLC has said: Immigration Report Being Released Today Linked to
White Supremist!
Your report has ZERO Credibility!
You might want to provide a non-biased report from reputable sources going forward. It may help your argument.
The SPLC would be the last group that I would call credible.
ReplyDeleteHere are the facts about Rubenstein, the author of the bogus reports:
ReplyDelete1. Rubenstein is a man who has written for years for a racist anti-immigration website called VDARE
2. He also writes for the white supremacist National Policy Institute.
3. describes the Supreme Court’s 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education ruling outlawing school segregation as “arguably the worse decision in the Court’s 216 year history.”
4. He claims later civil rights legislation was unconstitutional.
You cannot dispute any of the above.
Sorry Liquid. It is not me saying this. It is the Chief of Police, Board members and Citizens of the area saying this.
ReplyDeleteAs I said
Many locations that are enforcing restrictionist immigration laws are feeling the economic impacts. It is the ANTI groups pushing the laws, but when the vast majority of the local community begin to understand the economic impacts imposed upon them, then the react-respond to the initiators of the restrictionist laws.
We are seeing it happen over and over and over again.
I love how Dee's done so much research and everytime the ANTI's try to stump her it gets turned around and they are the one's who get stumped, try as you may ANTI's to make it not about race or how you make it seem you all are not racist when you say ILLEEEEEGAL alien but us PRO's see right through you, very transparent, you ANTI's are wrong, and you are proven wrong by Dee every time, and wrong will never win
ReplyDeletedee,
ReplyDeleteI love your dual personality as
"anon 1" You get caught every time. LOL
It is so funny!
ReplyDeletedo I have to explain to this yutz too that i'm not Dee, i covered this with the last poster who thought i was Dee, although flattered since i very much respect Dee for her insight on the subject and courage for voicing her opinion against you RED FACED ANGRY ANTI'S who have nothing better to do but pick on ppl and get stumped by Dee every time, Anonymous, just like the prev poster who though I was Dee, YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT!!!
ReplyDeleteLike I said, the Hispanic Business', are the ones losing clientel. There are citizens saying the opposite who are happy with the outcome. As for the Board Members, yo had better do some more research, because none of them have changed their overall minds about the Rule of Law Resolution.
ReplyDeleteA New View of Vacant Houses
Immigrant Crackdown Changing Block for the Better, Pr. William Pair Say
"When Chris Pannell walks down the Prince William County street she has called home for all of her 39 years, she's dismayed by what she sees -- vacant houses -- and delighted by what she says she doesn't see -- illegal immigrants.
"I will take coming down here and looking at 10 empty houses any day over what we had before," says Pannell, a title examiner, as she and her neighbor, Allison Kipp, 42, amble past lifeless houses. "
At least, if you are going to say something Anon1, opine on the article, otherwise you seem to be a sock puppet of Dee's, with no intelligence whatsoever. What research has she done? Everything and everybody to her relates back to Tanton. All she has done is repeat the same thing, like a parrot, you must be her cracker!
LOL! Dream on anon1, dee has never won one debate in here. She constantly makes a fool of herself and is constantly proven wrong. Only in she and yours demented minds has she ever won anything. All you and your ilk have is the race card. Not one viable argument!
ReplyDeleteLOL! "Red faced and angry"! That is another one of dee's favorites along with "Mayberry". Are you and dee twins, anon1? What is the likelyhood of two people using the exact same expressions all the time? What's next? "Yikes"? LOL!
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
ReplyDeleteDo a google search on Chris Pannell. She is a very outspoken ANTI with an agenda and she is on several blogs, forums, washington post, USA today, etc. She is not a local. She is an advocate.
Nothing wrong with that but she should not attempt to portray herself as woman next door. Shame on her!
Pat,
ReplyDeleteYou are being silly again! Are you doing your Pat Dance?
Its ok if you guys use my terms.
Lots of people use them!
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteQuit pickin on Anon1. Of course the url Zeezil provided relates to Tanton. Go to page 3. Hello. There is John Tanton´s name (godfather of the ANTIs). He is the publisher!
Anon1 and I have been emailing. He is extremely intelligent. He is a lot like you Liquid. He is an Anglo, in business, married to a nice wife, nice family guy, with a perspective on the Immigration Debate. He happens to be PRO. You are ANTI. I am seeing more and more PROs in this debate. Some are hesitant to post. It can be nerve-wracking, especially with the high rate of angry and over zealous ANTI posters. You happen to be one of the good ones.
yeah, RED FACED ANGER (lol), and pat, name one post where you stumped Dee, admit it, if you chose a different topic where RED-FACED ANGER isn't use (plus racism) Dee would kick your butt (and all debaters) HANDS DOWN, especially Immigration since Dee (and all PRO's) are in the right while all ANTI's ARE IN THE WRONG, so go ahead, chose a diff topic and lets see who'll win THE GRUDGE MATCH
ReplyDeleteAnon1,
ReplyDeleteI am so glad you are now a frequent commenter on my blog.
I have a number of PROs who email me and are hesitant to blog. To all of them, you demonstrate the courage it takes to stand up to the ANTIs and to post your perspective. You have as much right to post your perspective on ALL of the internet discussion boards and blogs as the ANTIs do. Please start posting!!
Thank you Anon1!!
OOOOH, "The Godfather". Please pass the pasta, lol.
ReplyDeleteMaybe your sock puppet friend could be a little more civil, dee? Afterall, wouldn't want to give your blog a bad name now would we? Tell him to find something original to say other than repeating your lines like a parrot. It would make him a little more believable.
anon1, how can us anti's be on the wrong side? We are on the side of our immigration laws. We believe in immigration occuring legally in controlled numbers for the obvious reasons. You on the other hand think that anyone who just wants to walk, swim or fly into our country at will should be able to do so in spite of the implications? You are either an idiot or an ethnocentric racist.
ReplyDeleteGosh Pat,
ReplyDeleteYou are so silly.
You obviously do not study.
Everyone knows Tanton is the godfather of the ANTIs. Check wikipedia and other sources.
For Heaven´s Sake Pat, Catch Up!!
Your arguments are so weak, close to pathetic!
Pat,
ReplyDeleteAs I have said so often.
You are on the Wrong Side because you CHOOSE NOT to acknowledge the History of Immigration over the past 100+ years.
Think of the Immigration Act of 1924. As the Anglos surpressed immigration from the Eastern and Southern European and Asian countries, they left the Latin borders wide open, welcoming in the workers to build our Great Nation! Remember the Bracero Programs and the building of the Railroads. They needed workers. They welcomed them in to Build our Great Nation!
You are the pathetic one dee by claiming we shouldn't enforce our immigration laws today because of the past. Our laws are different today and for good reasons. What part of that don't you get? NO, I am on the side of what are laws are today and that is where every loyal American should be.
ReplyDeleteI was making fun of your "Godfather Tanten" routine. You always have to play the melodramatics, don't you? It just sounds stupid calling him a Godfather. I envision a family of Italian mafia members. Of course you always use terms like that to demonize any anti.
Gosh Pat,
ReplyDeleteIt is not me calling him the godfather of the ANTIs. read the articles!!
Our nation is already built so there is no need to compare the past to the present. Our population has grown to 300 million people now. Latinos have more than there fair share of quotas for legal immigrants and they have taken upon themselves to invade our country illegally and deciding themselves how many immigrants we need. It's not up to them to decide. It is OUR country governed by OUR laws TODAY!
ReplyDeleteDee said...
ReplyDeleteLiquid,
Do a google search on Chris Pannell. She is a very outspoken ANTI with an agenda and she is on several blogs, forums, washington post, USA today, etc. She is not a local. She is an advocate.
Google search came up with this. At no point does it state what you do above, provide links or change your tune.
” When Chris Pannell walks down the Prince William County street she has called home for all of her 39 years, she’s dismayed by what she sees — vacant houses — and delighted by what she says she doesn’t see — illegal immigrants,” writes the Post. “I will take coming down here and looking at 10 empty houses any day over what we had before,” says Pannell, a title examiner, as she and her neighbor, Allison Kipp, 42, amble past lifeless houses.”
Immigrants or abandoned houses? You decide.
Looks to me that Chris Pannell has lived in PWC for 39 years. Now prove what you said about her.
So it is pro-illegals who call him a "Godfather". I rest my case.
ReplyDeleteUnless I missed it in of the sources you provided dee, I never saw the word "Godfather" attached to Tanton. It is probably of your own making.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I see where he was called "anti-immigrant". Bsssssssssst, LIE! So much for your credible sources, lol.
It seems Mrs. Kunkell is a local community activist as well. Mrs. kunkell sits on the board of directors of the Prince William Conservation Alliance. Even though Mrs. Pannell is a member of Help Save Manassas.
ReplyDeleteIt is actually Mrs. Kunkell who does not live in Manassas, but Haymarket, Va.
And Anon1 says you do great research, agrees with your every word, try doing better research, both of you. Maybe then you will have a decent argument with some actual facts.
It also seems that Mrs. Kunkell lives in a very WHITE town:
ReplyDeleteHaymarket, Virginia
As of the census[1] of 2000, there were 879 people, 321 households, and 234 families residing in the town. The population density was 1,725.2 people per square mile (665.5/km²). There were 337 housing units at an average density of 661.4/sq mi (255.1/km²). The racial makeup of the town was 92.04% White, 5.35% African American, 0.80% Asian, 0.68% from other races, and 1.14% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.73% of the population.
compared to Mrs. Pannell in Manassas, Va.
Manassas, Virginia
In 2005 non-Hispanic whites were 56.8% of Manassas' population. 13.3% of the population was African-Americans. 0.5% were Native Americans. 3.8% were Asian. 25.6% were Latinos.
Mrs. Kunkel's only problem is with Stewart not apologizing to the police chief for holding a open discussion with the community where the Mexican Consulate had a representative. Mrs. Kunkel needs to re-read all that transpired and exactly what Stewart said to Deane, what their phone conversation was about, and how it resolved. She seems to be still holding a grudge over something she knows nothing about and was not involved in.
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteDid you do the google search? I said she is an outspoken ANTI with an agenda. Here. I did the work for you. Chris Pannell
Let the viewer decide!!
Shame on you Liquid for not doing an easy search as suggested to validate for yourself!!
"It undermines the image of the county as a good place to invest," said Stephen Fuller, director of the Center for Regional Analysis at George Mason University. "The political environment has made people feel unwelcome."
ReplyDeleteAgain I ask the questions:
How much can be attributed to "Illegal Immigration" Rule of Law Resolution?
How much of it can be attributed to the downturn in the economy?
How much of it can be attributed to business not moving into PWC?
Until these questions are answered, Mr. Fuller would do well in not making such broad ignorant statements as factual. He should do more research as well.
GOVERNOR KAINE ANNOUNCES COVANCE EXPANSION TO PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY
- Covance to invest $175 million in pharmaceutical lab -
All that is posted is the same article from different web sites. I already stated she was a member of Save Manassas. Now do your research. Try reading what was already posted.
ReplyDeleteYou also stated she did not live in Manassas, for which I showed she does.
ReplyDeleteNow validate your remarks, or better yet try reading what I had already posted. You might find the answers there, hint, hint.
ReplyDeleteRead the top link in the search page Liquid.
ReplyDeleteShe is a member of Help Save Manassas which is a sub group of Help Save Dominion, as extremist ANTI group linked to some very scary ANTI groups, listed as HATE groups by the ADL, including STOP the Invasion, F.A.I.R, and others.
Are you ready to eat your words Liquid???
No need to apologize.
ReplyDeleteREAD What I said Liquid.
ReplyDeleteI said she was an advocate, not a local yocal, woman next door as she was trying to portray.
She is a member of Help Save Manassas which is a sub group of Help Save Dominion, as extremist ANTI group linked to some very scary ANTI groups, listed as HATE groups by the ADL, including STOP the Invasion, F.A.I.R, and others.
Your specific words were: "She is not a local. She is an advocate."
ReplyDeleteIn fact, she is both. I called you on she is not a local, when in fact she is. I even showed that she lives in Manassas. If you are now trying to differentiate what you meant when you said the above statement, next time be clear in what you are advocating. I won't make you look foolish.
I stated she was a member of Help Save Manassas many posts above, your lack of comprehension is showing. That justified your statement of: "She is an advocate."
ReplyDeleteGosh Liquid, More semantics from you? Come on. You are better than that! Re read what I said. My point was she was no local yocal as she was trying to portray. She is an ANTI advocate who is very involved in politics and belongs to a very extremist group. Even the people from the area believe it is an extremist group.
ReplyDeleteHere is what one article said: "....are members of the anti-illegal immigrant group Help Save Manassas, an affiliation that made some delegates uneasy. Wood and Core "are members of that group, and that turned me off to them," said Christine Finnie, a business owner and member of the city's Planning Commission, who voted for the Smith-Way-Wolfe bloc. "I think a lot of the people who turned out were looking for a more positive message."
Actually Liquid, you make your self look foolish when the only lean thread of an argument you have is based on pure semantics!
ReplyDeleteThe woman is an ANTI extremist who is very active. She is in many news articles promoting her ANTI rhetoric. The way the article portrays her is as if she is some little neighbor lady.
I pointed this out to you. This is the point. (you dont have to give us your semantics argument anymore, it is embarrassing for you.)
This lady from Manassas is telling it like it is.
ReplyDeleteRacial Profiling in Manassas
She is a very, very brave woman!
Here´s a businessman in Manassas who is going out of business in Manassas due to the restrictionist laws there:
ReplyDeleteOut of Business
Again I ask the questions:
ReplyDeleteHow much can be attributed to "Illegal Immigration" Rule of Law Resolution?
How much of it can be attributed to the downturn in the economy?
How much of it can be attributed to business not moving into PWC?
You still have yet to post information related to the article by answering these questions.
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteDid you play the video link "Out of business"? All of your questions are answered by the businessman from there. Anecdotal, yes, but words from the heart!
well I missed the great debate last night and looks like Dee left the ANTI's in the dust, i rest my case
ReplyDeleteanon1, who appointed you as judge and jury of who won a debate? Cause you said so? You are biased so your vote doesn't count. It takes more than one opinion anyway to determine who won a debate.
ReplyDeleteWhy is he slower in business, because he catered to "Illegal Immigrants"!
ReplyDelete"The racial makeup of Woodbridge, Va was 56.34% White, 23.45% African American, 0.55% Native American, 4.90% Asian, 0.17% Pacific Islander, 9.62% from other races, and 4.96% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 19.07% of the population."
He seems to be in a pretty diverse town. Again, how can all of this be attributed to the Rule of Law Resolution? How much can be attributed to the economy going down, i.e. jobs drying up, construction tanking? Residential building is at a crawl slower than a snail, jobs have dried up everywhere, migrants move with the jobs or to the jobs. The business man does not live in Manassas, he lives in Woodbridge, VA, on the Eastern PWC line, quite a few miles from Manassas.
Sacramento has the same thing happening in certain communities, day laborers are not as abundant as they once were in the south area. Small business' that catered to them and the houses they purchased or rented are now either for sale due to foreclosure or have For Rent signs in front of them. We have had 3 auctions already this year on foreclosed homes, all in specific areas in South Sacramento. North Sacramento and its surrounding communities have Foreclosures as well, buy less than 75% of the South area. You can guess the racial diversities of North Sacramento vs. South Sacramento. Business in North Sacramento is doing fine, my Residential business has slowed down due to the economy, however a smart business person foresaw this happening and prepared. Illegal Immigrants don't use my services as they usually do the work themselves.
Pat,
ReplyDeleteOnly your Pat Dance counts sweety. Do it for us one more time!
Liquid, When I viewed the video, I cried. The business man was speaking from his heart and telling the truth. Since the restrictionist laws have passed in Manassas last year, business has left, just like AZ and OK. He is almost out of business, yet he is brave and courageous enough to stand up, in front of city counsel and his neighbors to say the restrictionist bill is wrong, wrong wrong!!
ReplyDeleteHE is a Hero!!
You can call him what you want, its PWC not Manassas, Manassas is a city within PWC. At least get the info correct. The only business' that are being affected are those that catered to those that left. Whether it was the Rule or the Economy, they still left. He is not out of business, his business just got slower, he as a good business man, would look to further promote his business to bring in new clients, but thats just me being a business man. He is blaming his ills on everything but himself. Or is the Government suppose to take care of him? His choices in running his business are what put him in the position he may now be in.
ReplyDeleteDee said...
ReplyDeleteLiquid, When I viewed the video, I cried. The business man was speaking from his heart and telling the truth.
All he was doing was giving his story, his view. Yet is unwilling to accept any responsibility himself.
So let me get this straight, dee. You claim you want the employers sanctioned who hire illegals and yet you feel sorry for this business person who makes a living off of illegal aliens? What is the difference?
ReplyDeleteHere are 2 articles talking about the vacancies left after "Illegal Immigrants" leave the state.
ReplyDeleteNumber of jobless falls again in state
Unemployment rate down in Oklahoma
Seems to be working to me.
Oklahoma's unemployment rate, which was a seasonally adjusted 4.3% and 4.4%, respectively, in September and October 2007 (4.1% and 4.2% unadjusted), has fallen to a seasonally adjusted 3.1% in both February and March of this year (3.5% and 3.2% unadjusted).
The unemployment rate in most states has gone up from September 2007 to March 2008. In states where the rate has gone down, none has shown an improvement like that seen in the Sooner State -- not even close.
Liquid,
ReplyDeleteDid you view the video?
He did not cater to those that left. He was just a regular smallbusinessman.
Your statement is wrong!
Your statement:
The only business' that are being affected are those that catered to those that left.
Dee, If the policy is so bad for the economy of PWC then how come there are no calls by the supervisors to repeal the restrictionist policies: "None of the supervisors said they regret their vote on the immigration policy. But they said that with Stewart at the helm, the county has been preoccupied with the initiative." College professors, like the one from George Mason Univ, and the Chamber of Commerce are always against restriction. If the police Chief wants to quell any fears about enforcement, he should go directly to the citizens of PWC, not meet with foreign diplomats. This is another, yet ever more conspicuous sign, of the North American Union. These consulates are pure foreign intervention in U.S. domestic concerns. Not unlike our intervention in Iraq. A rational person would think denying illegals public assistance would save county dollars, deter freeloaders from moving in and, thus, help the local economy. Ironically, Chambers of Commerce are opposed to these restrictionist policies. They only care about their bottom lines and want an unlimited flow of cheap labor. Big business oftentimes supports affirmative action and diversity training. Big Business is Neocon/Liberal (the 2 are the same except one is pro war and the other is anti war). What is hurting PWC, like most other areas, is high energy prices, the housing slump and, it being a blue state, Maryland's high tax burden. Maryland is a big gun control state with a high crime rate. PWC is a nice place because of all the overpaid federal bureaucrats who live there. It's prosperity comes at the expense of the taxpayer. It is refreshing to have politicians like this Chairman, who speaks his mind and doesn't fear confrontation. Open and honest government means adversarial government, not pre-hearing compromises that make everyone look good, while the public is shafted. Ron Paul Revolution!!
ReplyDeleteHello!!! immigrationmexicanamerican.blogspot.com is one of the most outstanding resourceful websites of its kind. I enjoy reading it every day. Keep it that way.
ReplyDelete