Wednesday, August 22, 2007

Interesting Article on

Bill Fletcher wrote a very interesting article on

In part, here is what he says:
"Recognizing the racialization of immigration should help one understand that much of what we are witnessing is a scapegoating of Latinos for much larger forces and factors that are underway in US society. In previous commentaries I have written about this, most especially the restructuring of capitalism that has been underway and that immigrants are the victims rather than the source. I have also addressed immigration to the USA as a major result of US foreign policy that has destroyed the political and economic infrastructure of so many countries, e.g., El Salvador. The scapegoating that we are seeing, including the rise of violent militias and public demonstrations against immigrant day laborers, tends to focus on the Latino as if it is the Latino who is the source of all of our problems.

Were there to be a serious discussion of immigration in the USA, it would have to address why there is a differential in treatment between East European and Latino immigrants in the public mind and in reality. There would need to be a discussion as to who is and who is not threatening the jobs of non-immigrants--if anyone. There would need to be a discussion as to why nearly 200,000,000 people have been in the process of migrating to places outside of their homelands and what that says about contemporary capitalism.

Yet those who scapegoat the Latino want no such discussion. As long as the face of immigration-- documented and undocumented--is an 'evil' Latino we are absorbed in a madness out of which there is no escape and for which there are no answers."


mirrorism said...

Nothing good will come of this...

patriot said...

Capitalism does not nullify immigration laws nor the sovereingty of any nation's borders.

The only correlation between European immigration and Latino immigration is that most of the illegal kind are Latinos. It is about the numbers of illegal aliens from one particular country. Yes, those illegals have mostly the same color of skin and of the same race but that has nothing to do with it other than the numbers of which you seem to ignore.

Illegal immigration by Latinos or any other immigrant group is not being used as a scapegoat for anything. The facts of negative impact speak for themselves.

ultima said...

I suspect that all those who participated in the congressional debates on immigration reform in the Senate and the House in 2006 and 2007 would characterize those debates as a serious discussion. Although no one should be an advocate of differential treatment of East European and Latino immigrants, there are some differences that might explain why any differential treatment might occur. First and foremost there is the sheer numbers involved. The fewer the numbers, the more likely that assimilation will occur and vice versa. Second, obviously the Latinos are more easily noticed. Third, because of the proximity of Mexico and the volume of daily traffic, illegal entry is easier. If an alien is illegal, he should be treated the same regardless of where he came from. Since a majority of the illegals present in this country are Latinos, it does not appear that they are being discriminated against. In fact, it is their numbers that creates the problem. If we are talking about legal immigrants, there is nothing to indicate that there is any differential treatment although some might find suspect the fact that the Commissioner of the INS and many of its employees are Latino. To avoid this suspicion, very immigration application should be review by someone of a different ethnicity than the applicant.
Who is threatening the jobs of citizens is and has been a part of the discussion. But it is a numbers game – where do most of the illegals come from? What planet does Fletcher live on? Anyone interested in the immigration conundrum should be concerned about all foreigners who take jobs from Americans? Employers must be required to prove that they have advertised for American workers at a fair wage and with a hiring preference before any, and I repeat any, foreign worker can be hired. There has never been any question about this.
I am not sure what the 200 million people in flux have to do with contemporary capitalism. Does this mean they are attracted to the U.S. because of our particular brand of capitalism? What is Fletcher’s definition of contemporary capitalism and how does it effect mass migration? He doesn't give us a clue.

No one is scapegoating Latinos. They just happened to be the most numerous among all the illegals. We welcome the discussions Fletcher suggests. The concerns of rational people has always been illegal aliens; the rule of law; and our national sovereignty, which is clearly threatened by too many illegals and too many foreign-born among us. Fletcher wouldn’t recognize a legitimate threat if it sat right down beside him.

ultima said...

The Irish didn't have to trained to be "White"; they were white. There are many other explanations for the separatism of the Irish than the racially oriented one Fletcher advances. After all is it so unusual for birds of a feather to flock together. Obviously not. What are the chances these groups could even communicate with each other? I suspect they each saw benefit in pursuing their separate goals.

Dee said...

Ulty, As Fletcher said, no one is up in arms against the European illegal immigrants. Example: Day Labor sites. Those being targetted are "brown" whether legal or illegal.

Read who the SDMMs are targetting:

patriot said...

Member Ultima and myself already addressed this. While we don't want any illegal aliens in our country, Mexicans make up the majority. It is the numbers and they are a lot more visable. That doesn't mean that we are ok with illegal Europeans being here. Certainly not!

I haven't seen anyone at day labor sites that look white and European to me. I drove by one recently and every one of them looked Mexican or Latino. I could be wrong but just a quick visual fit the description of most Mexicans or Latinos.

I find it hard to believe that any legal citizen would be looking for work at a day labor site. They have the documents to work here legally and you keep saying we have a labor shortage so they shouldn't have a problem at all finding a legitimate job.

ultima said...

I tried the URL you supplied, Dee, but wasn't successful. Is it complete?

ultima said...

My experience is like Patriot's. I haven't seen anyone other than Hispanics at the Day Labor sites. I don't know how many illegal OTMs are employed. A Russian man showed up once as part of our Merry Maid service once. He didn't speak English and never returned.

Dee said...

Ultima and Patriot, Do you frequent the day labor sites? Just curious.

I suspect, particularly in NY, as the writer indicates, there are many ethnicities at those sites, but only the Latin are targetted.

patriot said...

Why would any regular American frequent day labor sites? But they are very visible at places like Home Depot and we men like our tools. As I already said in my area I haven't seen anyone at those sites who look other than Latino.

Mike said...

I am sorry, but you lost me there. Where and what are the "violent militias" again?

The only "violent militias" I have followed in recent decades are the ones in Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Mexico, Guatemala, and El Salvador, among others.

Have there been shooting, beheadings, rapes and such in America (well, other than the thousands committed by Nortenos, Surenos, MS-13, black Gangster Disciples and other groups) that I have somehow missed?

As sensitive as you are about violent militias, surely you can understand why we would want to be very careful letting such militias into America, our country, and why we are concerned with the ones like Nortenos, Surenos, Zetas and MS-13 that have already gotten in and are regularly supplemented by new members crossing the border illegally.

Dee said...

Mike -- Welcome to our discussion.

When "" wrote this article, the violent militia´s are the many radical racist groups that are home-grown and angry. The perpetrators of the OKC bombing were from these militias. There are a number of militias in Michigan. I can do some google searches for you if you like.

There are many hate groups and gangs in our country and they come from various groups including the ones you names.

The Realist said...

dee... first off, thanks for visiting my site. I don't usually respond to - or in this case challenge - the folks who comment on my site. But you've piqued my curiosity and I'll check out your blog.

As an introduction, let me respond to the following quote from you...

"Ultima and Patriot, Do you frequent the day labor sites? Just curious.

I suspect, particularly in NY, as the writer indicates, there are many ethnicities at those sites, but only the Latin are targeted."

You may wonder where my strong anti- views come from. In my case, it's simple. Illegal immigration is not some nebulous political issue I picked up after listening to Michael Savage or opening up a Tom Tancredo fundraising letter... illegal immigration, and, in particular, daylabor, is something I deal with every single day.

About 5 years ago, some daylaborers started showing up at the paint store on my block. Today, that number is usually a couple of dozen and some days over 100. Some women in my neighborhood no longer walk by this block - tired of the harassment and catcalls. Open drinking is common, as is drug dealing and graffiti. At least one I know of was arrested breaking into cars. the police do nothing about it.

Last year, in response to numerous complaints from the neighborhood about all of these issues and urinating in public, the city sprang into action! What did they do? They put in a porta-potty. PROBLEM SOLVED! And you wonder why I'm the way I am.

Of the 4 business that recently opened in the neighborhood, 3 are owned by Hispanics. 2 of the 4 billboards in the neighborhood are in Spanish.

In my city - San Francisco - the population numbers have remained stable, but it hides the fact that American citizens are leaving and foreign-born immigrants are coming.

I'm watching as the city I have lived in for the past 20 years turns into something definitively NOT American. La Raza and their ilk are major political players, and the pro-Hamas Council of American islamic relations writes editorials in the Chronicle on the 4th of July telling us "what it means to be American."

If that makes me a nativist, then I am PROUD to be a nativist.

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