Monday, October 15, 2007

What is Happening?

Here is what I am noticing lately:

I´ve been fighting the nobel fight all weekend on other sites. Now I am back. Now that I am back, I am wondering. What is Happening to our Great USA?

1. Jena 6, Nooses and defense of those who hung them.
2. Raging against Hip Hoppers.
3. A call to bring back Imus and Craig. Acting as if calling someone a "nappy headed Ho" or mens room antics are innocent acts.
4. Animosity against Hillary
5. Animosity against Barbara Walters and the View
6. In the Immigration Debate, Words used like "Mexifornia," "Anchor Babies," and all Hell breaks loose when you mention Education as being a solution (e.g. Dream Act).

What is happening in America? I saw Rev. Ted Haggart (hmmm) on AE raging against the AntiChrist.

We are in the midst of a Hypocritial, Racist, Sexist and a Locker Room Environment.
What is happening?
Is this the Last Hurrah of the White Man?

111 comments:

ultima said...

Maybe! Perhaps the last hurrah of America and Americans.

patriot said...

Its noble, not nobel but what the heck. So it bothers you that others have a different opinion than yours? What makes you think yours is the correct view to have? Where are your battlefields out in blogland? Perhaps I would like to counter with my own opinions.

When you speak of hypocricy and racism those are the traits of your "pro" side.

If we Whites don't fight for our country against illegal aliens and their anarchist supporters perhaps it will be the Last Hurrah for the White Man. Consider it survivalism. What were those sites again that you are raising hell in?

Dee said...

Ulty,
That is the case only if you exclude Women and Minorities.

Dee said...

Obviously it was a noble fight Pat. Thank you for acknowledging.

Dee said...

Hypocricy is on one side. The ANTI side.

Dee said...

Pat,
I´ve had to deal with many. Don´t need you and Liquid or Ulty going over there.

Dee said...

But the good news is, me and mine Won!!

Dee said...

PS Pat, No need to correct my typos. Remember, I won the Spelling Bee in 1st grade!!

Dee said...

BTW, Click on the pix for this post. It is so cool. This piece of artwork was called "the Last Stand" drawn by a Native American artist.

So applicable.

patriot said...

I was correcting you spelling, dee. You haven't fought any noble fights in here so why would I think you would elsewhere? What are those blog sites again?

Dee said...

Pat,
You are so funny. That is why I like you, even if we do disagree on most everything.

Here you complain about my spelling and when you mistype "you spelling" for "your spelling" you don´t even notice it.

Sweety, no one minds typos in blogs.

Regarding my noble fight this weekend, ah, it will be best left for memory. The taste of victory is sweet, but oh so short.

Liquidmicro said...

victory can be defined in many ways.... Dee must have cut and ran in order to fight again another day.

patriot said...

So give me the blog address where you won this battle. I want to see it with my own eyes. Was there a vote taken? Who determined the winner? What are you afraid of? We anti's as you call us post in here, so what is the difference? Obviously you were up against other antis. Are liquid and myself that good of debaters that you are afraid of us? I guess you are admiting that we are winning in here then. Come on, don't be a coward and don't make us doubt that you and yours were the winners. Show us! Are you hiding something?

patriot said...

Just as I thought, you only won in your demented little head.

ultima said...

"That is the case only if you exclude Women and Minorities."

Is this some more of your supercilious drivel? Sorry but you don't get to decide what all women and minorities think nor do you get to decide who is the winner in the arguments posted. No one appointed you as judge and jury. Besides you can hardly be objective in judging your own arguments.

Please accept that there are different points of view on all of the issues presented here and generally they all have some degree of credibility or validity. So stop this endless trumpeting of "I won!".. The only winners or losers here are America and the American people, including those of all ethnicities,religions, sexual preferences,etc. You claim to be one of them but continue to voice opinions that consign you to those who couldn't care less about America and the quality of life it has provided to so many. By the way where do you stand as a catholic on the issue of gay marriage and related gay issues?

Dee said...

Pat,
You should try being nicer. It works. You ever hear about catching more bees with honey than vinegar.

Try it sweety. It works!!

Dee said...

Pat,
I cannot give you the blog address. You know how you and Liquid and Ulty don´t use your real names, I don´t always use my own name either.

Some people are intimidated by me so I did not want to scare them.

You know what a people person I am.

I like it here because I use my real name and I am just me. You guys don´t really hate me and you know it.

Dee said...

Ulty,
Are you trying to deny me my charm? You know if I was a boring, humble person you wouldn´t be here. Part of your charm is being feisty. That is what I like so much about you (besides your intelligence).

Dee said...

Ulty,
You ask a good question. I am Catholic and I am torn on both Abortion and on Gay Rights.

Abortion: For the most part, I am against abortion. I would never have an abortion. My children and my g-babies are my life. I know women who have had abortions and have regretted it dearly. I think they have shadows behind them all their lives. I am a little torn re: rape and life saving instances.

Dee said...

Gay Marriage and Gay Rights:
I am very torn on gay issues. I am not gay. I do have friends and know people who are gay. I don´t envy them because I know people often castigate them. Some people shun them and openly discriminate against them. I would not wish this on anyone. I do not judge them and I don´t feel it is up to me to say whether they should be married or in their lifestyle or not. What did the bible say about judging people?

One of my co-workers was flagrantly promiscuous when I knew him in the 90´s. He said it was part of the gay lifestyle. I do not agree with that type of lifestyle for gay or straight.

I have a friend now who is gay. He is a very nice person. Has only had a few relationships and is rather lonely and alone now except for friends. He is a good guy. I like him.

I knew a young man when I was a teenager. He was very feminine through our teenage years but he was nice and funny and we laughed all the time. We lost track of each other and I saw him again in my 30´s. Now he was flagrantly gay. I asked him if he was always gay. He said yes, from the time he was born. I thought he was a nice guy.

I know a young woman who met another young woman. I didn´t think she was gay. She didn´t either, but then she met her partner and they fell in love. They are still in love and plan on having a commitment ceremony next year. They invited me and a number of friends to their ceremony. They are both nice, hard working, helpful, and fun. Most people that know them treat them like any other couple they know.

patriot said...

When have I not been nice? Your idea of being nice is to agree with you. When I see you spinning the truth and choosing the welfare of illegal foreigners over your own citizens, I am not going to pull any punches.

What has not using our real names have to do with it? You admit yourself that you don't always do it either. Lets face it dee, you don't want us to go to that blog because one, you didn't win any battle in there and two, you don't want any more anti's in your little battlefield because we speak the truth and you can't handle the truth.

Dee said...

Pat,
I would only ask you to go back to your posts to see when you are not nice to me. But its ok. I am a grown woman. I can take it.

I do enjoy hearing the other side. That is why I started my blog. I want to hear your perspective. I am very lucky. I have some very smart people that comment on my blog. I cannot take that away from you all.

I do not agree with much of what you say, but I do defend to the death, your right to say it.

Anonymous said...

Americans trying to protect America for other Americans isn't hypocricy. You trying to force us to give Amnesty to any illegal alien, trying to force us to give handouts to illegals and then calling yourself patriotic is hypocrital.

Posting spam of your point of view and refusing to directly address your critiques isn't fighting a good fight.

Posting spam of your point of view as if none of your points are disputable while people are actively disputing your points also isn't fighting the good fight.

Getting Banned for spaming isn't winning a noble fight.

Fighting for handouts for illegal aliens just because they graduated high school isn't fighting a noble fight.

Slyhunter said...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-07-Dream_N.htm#uslPageReturn

Rewards illegal aliens for graduating high school.

patriot said...

"Getting banned for spamming isn't winning a noble fight."

Heh, heh do you know something we don't know, anonymous? Please share.

Slyhunter said...

I posted as anonymous.
She spent a large portion of time fighting for the Dream Act at http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-07-Dream_N.htm#uslPageReturn

Slyhunter said...

She also spends time at the dream act forum where they post inane crap like "We cannot let this chance blow past us guys, i am so sick and tired of waiting and waiting and waaaiittiinngg!!! i mean we have it so easy, just call man please please pleeaassee!!! ask the Dream Act for Christmas, stop begging for iPhones and PlayStation 3s or XBOX's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://www.dreamact.info/forum/about2955.html

Dee said...

Well Sly,
You finally fess up.
As I said, when I post on other forums, I can be many people. Just as you don´t post with your name, neither do I. You can guess and wonder all you will, but I will not confirm anything.
You and all you alleypackers can post and whine and type your false arguments.
The facts are clear. Just like the Dreamers said, its Education or Drop Outs.

Don´t whine here dear. It doesn´t become you.

Dee said...

By the way Sly,
Your calling anything and everything Amnesty belittles your argument. No one listens after the first use of it.

This weekends experience taught me something about you all. I will not tell you what.

Slyhunter said...

It isn't education vs drop outs. It is the rule of law vs rewarding those who violated the rule of law.
It is giving seats to illegal aliens, vs reserving them for legal citizens.

There is not an unlimited supply of seats. Neither is there a unlimited supply of funds such as grants and loans.

Slyhunter said...

You calling an argument false, doesn't make it false.

Dee said...

Sly,
Of course it is Education vs DropOuts. Also the Tuition is not paid for them. Read the Bill.

Slyhunter said...

Did read the bill. Once they qualify to have a seat in the college they then are automatically qualified, based on their income, to receive grants and loans just like any other Ameircan. The problem is they are illegal aliens. Just because it doesn't spell it out in black and white doesn't mean it isn't an available option.

Dee said...

Like any other student, they may apply for loans or grants and if qualified may be eligible to receive. Loans are loans. Not a gift. Don´t misportray the facts.

So the bottom line is, Education vs Drop Outs. If the bill does not pass, they will be forced to drop out. These are the brightest and the best brought to America as children. They have certain criteria to meet and fulfill before even being considered for permanent residency status. If you read the bill, you would know this.

Slyhunter said...

They can't even deport the illegal aliens, how in the world are they going to force one to repay a loan?

It is Rewarding criminal activity.

patriot said...

It is my understanding that there are only so many student loans and grants to go around too. The more the demand the fewer students who will receive them. Am I wrong?

Dee said...

Sorry Sly.
You are wrong. (again)

Dee said...

Pat,
I do not know how old you are or if you have children, but if your child has good grades and a willingness to learn, he can obtain a loan, a grant and probably some scholarships.

Slyhunter said...

First off you Saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. Insubstantiated crap is just crap.

Second, you keep putting out how the Dream act won't allow illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition. Then why are they listing all the states illegal aliens can get in-state tuition at the pro dream act site? http://www.dreamact.info/forum/about389.html

10 states are listed. And they think many more will open up just as soon as the dream act pass.

So your arguments are all not only wrong but lies because you knew this before I discovered it.

Slyhunter said...

Tax payer money should be reserved for legal citizens and legal citizens only.

Illegals taking it reduces the amount available to legal citizens. Where is your compassion?

Slyhunter said...

I know what the deal is. You don't care what happens to us. You have your hand out and you want it filled, that isn't very compassionate of you.

These illegal aliens countries of origin will never improve unless the citizens of those countries make them. They can't make them if they are here.

Slyhunter said...

Where is your compassion for those you left behind. Where is your compassion for those who couldn't figure out how to illegally immigrate to America? Where is your compassion to legal US citizens?

You have none.

Slyhunter said...

Dream act has an age cap of 30. Says so right here on your own pro dream act site. http://www.dreamact.info/forum/about3026.html

It isn't just for kids. Another lie.

Dee said...

Sly,
Apparently you do not have children college age or that have gone to college recently. The students would still pay tuition. Colleges charge in state and out of state tuition. They would receive the in state rate for the state they live IN. They would still have to pay for it.

Dee said...

Sly, How old are you? Why do you think 30 is old? The last time I thought 30 was old was when I was 17.

Liquidmicro said...

California Dream Act: Since there are only a finite number of such discounts, every discount received by an illegal alien represents one less available to a U.S. citizen. Accordingly illegal aliens could obtain a Community College Board of Governor's Fee Waiver and go to California community colleges completely free.

Sorry Dee, California's Dream Act is a PIECE of CRAP legislation, brought up by no other than the great ethnocentric Gil Cedillo.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Gosh, I thought better of you than this lame argument.
1. In State tuition rates are NOT FREE rates. The student still pays. Sly keeps arguing these are Freebies.
2. We have had in state vs out of state tuition rates for decades. These rates have nothing to do with a gift for dreamies.
3. No citizen student has ever been denied in state tuition rates due to a dreamie. This is a pie in the sky argument.
4. Any student with the grades can go to college and pay tuition, apply for loans and grants

Dee said...

To qualify, the immigrant student or soldier would have to meet certain requirements such as:

Proof of having arrived in the United States at age 15 or younger.
Proof of residence in the United States for a least five (5) consecutive years since their date of arrival.
Must be between the ages of 12 and 30 at time of bill enactment. However, the age range does vary between versions.
Having graduated from an American High School, or obtained a GED.
"Good moral character," essentially defined as the absence of a significant criminal record (or any drug charges whatsoever).

Dee said...

Additionally, just so you both know and understand, the current version of the DREAM Act no longer contains language pertaining to in-state tuition.

So there goes that argument (out the window!!)

Slyhunter said...

Dee you can't say no citizens has been denied seats due to a dreamie as an arguement for the dream act because it hasn't been pass YET. Once it passes it will.

Slyhunter said...

The dream act doesn't have to give permission to someone to receive in-state tuition! It gives them the right to go to college. After that in-state tuition is automatic in at least 10 states and more state could be opening up soon for them.

They are illegal aliens. They are non-citzens. Do not waste tax payers money on non-citizens. Deport them.

Dee said...

Sly,
You CANNOT say they will take seats in the future. That is a pipe dream and false argument.

Dee said...

In State Tuition is a RATE. They would have to qualify based on residency and grades (college entry criteria). Then they would have to secure a loan to pay it.

Most Americans agree, Mass Deportation would be bad for America.

Liquidmicro said...

They are 'Illegally' here and are not residents, therefor they should have to pay out-of-state tuition no matter what, they should not be granted in-state tuition, they should not receive grants, assistance or any other form of help from our country. They should apply for these benefits through their countries of origin.

Now which Dream Act are you talking about?? Federal or California's?? They are 2 different animals, that do almost the same thing.

Liquidmicro said...

How can they secure a loan if they do not have authorization to work here, or a valid SS number??? B of A just dropped the market today based on lower 3rd quarter earnings, are they going to continue providing loans to 'Illegal Immigrants' with out proper documentation?

Dee said...

Gosh Liquid,
Apparently you do not have college age students in your home either.
Students don´t need a job to apply for a student loan.

Dee said...

Regarding the economy and banking firms, have you read anything the Housing Bubble Bursting?

Liquidmicro said...

As a matter of fact I do have a daughter starting college next year, she also has a job and a credit card, a car and insurance. Either the student needs credit or their parents need credit in order to apply for a loan... no job, no credit.... NO LOAN!!!!

Liquidmicro said...

Completely aware of the bubble bursting, are you aware of the tightening of the credit by the institutions? Good credit gets loans, bad/no credit.... DOESN'T GET LOAN. Credit is now a lot harder to get then a few years ago.

Liquidmicro said...

The bubble is still deflating, like a hot air balloon falling from the sky, the question is how hard will it land when it finally does hit the ground?

Dee said...

Liquid,
I understand student loan process as well. My son just finished college.

The same rules apply for the dreamies. Since part of the criteria is: Proof of having arrived in the United States at age 15 or younger.
Proof of residence in the United States for a least five consecutive years since their date of arrival.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am glad you are aware of the Housing Bubble bursting and the reasons banks and lending institutions are impacted (and therefore the ludicrousness of your statement re: BoA practices in relation to this issue).

Here are the Top 3 Reasons for the bubble burst:
3 of the top 9 reasons that the real estate bubble will burst include:

1. Interest rates are rising - foreclosures are up 72%!
2. First time homebuyers are priced out of the market - the real estate market is a pyramid and the base is crumbling
3. The psychology of the market has changed so that now people are afraid of the bubble bursting - the mania over real estate is over!

Liquidmicro said...

Actually your number one is already wrong as they just lowered interest rates and are going to possibly be lowering them further here shortly, trying to stimulate the market. In some areas foreclosures are up higher than that. Nobody was priced out of the market until recently when interest only loans became payable, nobody could afford them. Hence all the foreclosures and repos. The market is crumbling due to the ease of obtaining credit to purchase a home, now that the loan institutions are seeing how impractical they were with loans to 'everybody' and the 'everybody' now not being able to repay them, that includes the 'illegal immigrant' crowd as well, taking out seconds and equity lines, purchasing big ticket items and then skipping out on the house, headed back to where they cam from, credit is now much harder to get in order to purchase property, Credit has tightened up!!

Dee said...

Sorry, you are forgetting interest only loans and other shady types of loan practices that led us down this path.

We are where we are due to these loans and the greed of the American Public wanted to live in McMansions much beyond their fiscal means.

Liquidmicro said...

I am forgetting interest only loans.... REALLY.... maybe you can't read to well, re-read my post above, in it you will find this sentence: Nobody was priced out of the market until recently when interest only loans became payable, nobody could afford them.

Now where did I miss interest only loans????

Liquidmicro said...

Your other shady types of loans.... like giving loans to 'illegal immigrants' without all of the same required documentation as a citizen!! Yea, that seems pretty shady to me, too. Now the market is paying for it, the loan companies and banks, also. Thus credit is becoming harder to obtain, and will be better for America in the long run.

patriot said...

Lol, liquid. Dee truly has a reading comprehension problem. She just misinterpreted one of my posts under another topic too. Maybe one shouldn't start the "happy hour" so soon in the day or stop watching "Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader?"

Dee said...

Liquid and Pat,
My, my I think you both like your Happy Hours. You and your guy Ru Paul are all in denial.

The issue is, as I stated in my original post, the ANTIs are creating so much anger in America that they are up in arms against the Jena 6, Hip Hoppers, Animosity against Hillary, Barbara Walters, Strong Women, and Immigration Issues. Yet their spokespeople like Ted Haggard, Dobbs, O´Reilly, and the ANTI sites like Alipac are doing nothing to help their cause.

We, the American Public, are on to you and we are saying Stop!! We want America back!! The land of the Free! The Home of the Brave! We are Mad as Hexx and we are not goign to take it any more!!

Peace Now!
Hillary Now!

patriot said...

The anti's? So you lump them altogether? None of us are capable of rational thinking and independent thought? Do you agree with the Brown Berets since they are also pro's like you? Come on play fair and stop stereotyping.

We don't need to create any anger. Anger is the normal reaction to the illegal invasion of our country all by itself.

No you and yours never had this country so its not yours to take back. It never belonged to anarchist type Americans and it never will. It has always belonged to law abiding Americans of which you and yours are not.

Slyhunter said...

Dee people get turn away from college all the time because of the lack of available slots for new students. Allowing illegal aliens to go to college will make these seats harder to find for citizens.

This country is for Americans, not illegal aliens. Illegal aliens should go back home and fix their own damn countries, not ruin ours.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says: "the ANTIs are creating so much anger in America that they are up in arms"

Then explain why 72% of New Yorkers do not want illegals to have drivers licenses. Explain why the vast majority of Arizona residents voted for and passed all those anti-illegal immigrant laws. Explain why Oklahoma has done the same. Explain why Arizona's jobless rate just hit an all time low of 3.3%, not this low since 1967. Explain why cities and counties all across the nation are obtaining 287(g) status for their police officers.

Dee said...

1. Many of the polls ANTIs cite are suspect. We need to study the source, validity, repeated voting, etc.
2.Low unemployment rate: this proves the job shortages I have frequently mentioned.
3. Voting: The one area the ANTIs have been successful is motivating their followers to all vote (or stuff the ballot boxes)

slyhunter said...

you haven't been reading your dreamact forum very much. There are people there braggin about voting hundreds of times in the polls. It isn't the alipacers who are stuffing the ballot boxes.

When NY says 72% don't want illegals to have drivers liscences they didn't get it from some online poll. They hired a polling house to randomly call new yorkers and ask them, thus getting only one vote each.

Most Americans dont' want illegal aliens living in America. Most Americans don't want a path to give illegals a route to citizenry that doesn't include leaving this country and getting to the end of the legal immigration line. In fact, most Americans think illegal aliens shouldn't be allowed to get in the legal immigration line at all and be forced to live in their own damn countries.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says:
1. Many of the polls ANTIs cite are suspect. We need to study the source, validity, repeated voting, etc.
2.Low unemployment rate: this proves the job shortages I have frequently mentioned.
3. Voting: The one area the ANTIs have been successful is motivating their followers to all vote (or stuff the ballot boxes)

1. Seventy-two percent of voters in Monday's Siena College poll said they were opposed to "the governor's plan to allow undocumented immigrants to get New York driver's licenses." Twenty-two percent of those polled supported the plan of the once widely popular governor, according to the Siena Research Institute.

2. Low unemployment rates can be contributed to 'Illegals' exiting the state of Arizona, thus opening up work for the American Citizen. What would the job shortages be, sector wise?? housing is dumping, hospitality is decreasing... give some sectors that are short.

3. How can someone stuff a ballot box in a city or county vote, when it is just the board that is voting, members of the board vote only once and it is taken at the moment of the vote.

You are either not following along or you are very blind to how Americans truly think.

Dee said...

Sly, You are an alipacker so you know you have whole sections devoted to Polling. You send your members to vote and vote often.

Regarding the Drivers License vote, it was more of a vote against the Governor´s proposal and potentially higher insurance rates according to the Siena Group´s website. (the group that conducted the poll)

As usual, the ANTIs take one question from one poll and skew it to represent every issue for all Americans. That is too much of a stretch!!

Dee said...

Liquid, you prove my point.

The poll was more about the Governors proposal and higher insurance rates than anything else. Additionally, you ANTIs are known for taking one question from one survey or poll and represent it as All Americans All the Time. This is false!!

Liquidmicro said...

Refute my arguments about all the city, county, and states and 287(g) enforcement.

Liquidmicro said...

NYers Overwhelmingly Oppose Gov’s License Proposal
?
Spitzer Gets Lowest Job Performance Rating Ever
?
Bloomberg Leads Spitzer 50-37 in 2010 Gubernatorial Match-up


Please Dee, show where the poll was more about the Governors proposal and higher insurance rates than anything else.

“Nearly two-thirds of voters believe that the Governor’s proposal poses a national security risk, and twothirds
disagree with the argument that it will lower auto insurance costs. Even most Democrats are on the
opposite side of the fence from the Governor on those questions. Voters from every region of New York
overwhelmingly oppose Governor Spitzer on this issue,” Greenberg said.

Liquidmicro said...

Again, you show your lack of comprehension in matters. You only see what you wish to believe and fail to make an objective decision based on any facts presented to you. You constantly profess your opinion as the 'Know It All' and proclaim yourself as a victor, when you can't even provide substantial facts to back up your pathetic arguments. Please Dee, try harder, at least make it worth my effort.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says: you ANTIs are known for taking one question from one survey or poll and represent it as All Americans All the Time. This is false!!

Is this like the pole on MATT were you stated 72% want illegal immigrants to have a path to citizenship, even though you would not recognize 78% wanted all illegal immigrants to leave the country. Nothing like taking one answer and spinning it to fit your view.

Liquidmicro said...

“Nearly three-quarters of voters – including 59 percent of Democrats – oppose the Governor’s plan to
give driver’s licenses to undocumented aliens,” said Steven Greenberg, Siena New York Poll spokesman.
“The voters’ message to the Governor is clear: ‘No, no, no.’ Opposition to the Spitzer proposal is intense,
with 41 percent strongly opposing it and only 7 percent strongly supporting it.

patriot said...

So dee, you are aware that with these DL's that illegals will be able to vote in many states fraudulently don't you? Whats your take on that? Does that meet with your approval?

Dee said...

Liquid,
I received my FACTS from the Sienna website, the group that took the survey. Here is what they said:
As I said
1. "Nearly three-quarters of voters – including 59 percent of Democrats – oppose the Governor’s plan "
2. "two-thirds disagree with the argument that it will lower auto insurance costs."
3. "When asked to rank nine issues on a scale of importance, the top issues for New York voters were health care, jobs and the economy, public education, taxes and integrity in state government. "


http://www.siena.edu/level2col.aspx?menu_id=562&id=12081

Dee said...

Pat, You are taking a leap. When I vote, I have to show both my DL and my Voter Registration Card and they complete a check vs their Registration Data Base.

What does your Election site do?

Dee said...

I will also say that the ANTIs have done a good job about pushing their agenda to the American Public, Congress and the Media. They have excellent tactics. They are persuading the uninformed masses.

You may win the initial battles, but overall you will not win the argument. Truth is on our side.

Liquidmicro said...

How does that song go.....

Dreamer, you stupid little dreamer;
So now you put your head in your hands, oh no!
I said "Far out, - What a day, a year, a laugh it is!"
You know, - Well you know you had it comin' to you,
Now there's not a lot I can do.

Liquidmicro said...

Fix your link... OH WAIT, I linked to it above before you. So quit taking only portions of a sentence out of the paragraph and use the whole thing. OH WAIT, you are doing what you claimed Pat and myself and all ANTI's of doing..... and whats that you ask?????? skew it!!!

patriot said...

At the polls in my state all one needs to do is show their voter registration card and a utility bill with a matching name and address, a paycheck or a bank statement. No picture I.D. is required. But I always show my DL.

Many states have the same policy. I disagee with this. It is open to voter fraud. Some states do require a picture I.D. and this will also enable illegal aliens to vote if they are given DL's.

What truth do you speak of on the pro illegal side? Illegal immigration and truth shouldn't even be in the same sentence. One depicts dishonesty and the other stands for honesty.

It is the end war that we will win, not anarchists and ethnocentric traitors.

Slyhunter said...

Dee the truth is you want a handout and you think illegal aliens deserve handouts. America isn't about promoting the wellfare state but capitalism. The truth is Tax payer money should be spent on citizens of this country and not citizens from another country who were never given permission to be here. That's the truth.

Dee said...

Pat and Sly,
You are both off base.

As I have said, I support
1. Secure Borders, Trained BP Agents
2. Employer Sanctions
3. Bringing the 12M here out of the shadows and establishing either Guest Worker status or a structured path to earned citizenship.

I have never advocated anyone in illegal status voting in US Elections or even giving them US DLs. You all make stuff up.

As I´ve said all along, I support the above 3 items. It is right and just to do so.

patriot said...

1. Secure borders as long as it doesn't include the fence?

2. Sanction employers as long as it doesn't include raiding their businesses and arresting illegals?

3. No way, Jose.

Did anyone in here say that you support voting or DL's for illegals? You do however support in-state tuition for illegals and the Dream Act.

No, 1-3 is not the right and just thing to do. The right and just thing to do would be to deport them or let them self-deport and wait their place in line in their own countries to come back legally.

Slyhunter said...

"The DREAM Act would give amnesty not only to illegal aliens, but also give amnesty to ten states that have been flagrantly violating federal law. The 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act expressly forbids a state to give in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens unless that subsidy is also granted to all U.S. citizens nationwide.

The DREAM Act would retroactively repeal that law, thereby saving the ten states from punishment and equal-protection lawsuits filed by out-of-state Americans and law-abiding foreign students. The ten states that have been engaging in a 21st century use of the 19th century theory called nullification (defying a federal law the state doesn't like) are California, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, and Washington."
http://www.dreamact.info/forum/about3053.html

patriot said...

Sly, not only that but once these students gain citizenship they can sponsor their illegal parents and other family members in this country to become legalized. So it is a back door amnesty for many if not most of the illegals in this country.

Dee said...

The FACTS are the Dream Act promotes Education vs Drop Outs.

patriot said...

I couldn't care less if illegals drop out of school here. They had no right to an education here anyway. They can go back to Mexico or whatever other country they are from now that they are adults and use what they have learned here to build a better homeland for themselves and others.

Liquidmicro said...

The FACT is that it rewards 'ILLEGALITY' with benefits that are for CITIZENS!! It does not matter if the 'Illegal' children were brought here by there parents and they had no choice in the matter, it is still rewarding the parent in the long run by saying, "well you broke our laws, but that's OK, we will give your children full rights as a Citizen." How is that in any way punishing those that have came here 'illegally'? All it will do is encourage more parents to bring their 'Illegal' offspring with them on a dangerous treck across the river, desert, mountains of the south, placing the child's life in danger (for which you obviously don't care about), all for benefits that will be given to the child.

Once the child receives these benefits, the parents can then start receiving welfare benefits such as food stamps, health care, Section 8 housing, etc, all in the name of the child. What little the child may contribute in the future, is not worth the amount the parents will take from our society. They are starting out in the RED, and staying in the red for far to many generations.

Now I'll ask again, which DREAM ACT is it that you wish to talk about, The Federal version or the California version?

Liquidmicro said...

No Child Left Behind also promotes education v. drop out, however that seems to be problematic as well as the 'Illegal Immigrant' children can't pass an High School Test to gain a diploma, so they sue the school districts for discrimination!!

Slyhunter said...

Dee your a liar.

The facts is the dream act gives ILLEGAL ALIENS a path to becoming legal.

The facts is it is reserving seats for legal citizens or giving them to illegal ones.

The facts is it'll give illegal aliens, the right to pay in-state tuition. They can't be legal residents of a state, a requirement for in-state tuition, if they are Illegal residents of the US of A.

The facts is it'll give most illegal aliens the right to receive grants and student loans. Money paid in to the coffers by tax payers. Some from the state and some was matching funds from the Federal government. Regardless tax money should be reserved for legal citizens and legal citizens only.

The facts is it is giving a group of illegal aliens amnesty versus deporting them as the law requires.

Slyhunter said...

Liquid your question about which dream act she is talking about is immaterial. The state one has already failed. Therefore only the Federal one is worthy enough to be arguing about at this current time.

If Dee actually read all of a persons post I bet she would tell you that answer too.

patriot said...

liquid, you are exactly right. I know a teacher who is fed up with the "no child left behind BS". They are pressured to bring these non-English speaking illegals up to par with citizen students or they are punished for it. It isn't fair!

dee said...

Give me, give me, give me. You greedy capitalist pigs give me a handout or I'll call you names and rise up in protest against you. Wah wah wah.

Slyhunter said...

There should be an exception for those students who haven't had the opportunity to become fluent in english yet.

I'm not sure which grade, but it should be a requirement to learn english before proceeding to the next grade so as not to be an impediment to their fellow students due to their own lack of ability with the english language.

Dee said...

Children do speak English and they do assimilate. That is clear. Where on earth do you think children are not learning English in school. That is ridiculous.

Slyhunter said...

I believe this is a true statement.
patriot said...
liquid, you are exactly right. I know a teacher who is fed up with the "no child left behind BS". They are pressured to bring these non-English speaking illegals up to par with citizen students or they are punished for it. It isn't fair!

patriot said...

Our schools shouldn't have to be teaching non-English speaking illegal students. Their own countries should be. This is what brought about this stupid, "no child left behind PC crap".

If a child doesn't already know how to speak English when starting school then their parents should get a private tutor that they pay for so that they are English proficient before entering our schools. They are holding our kids back and frustrating our teachers.

Dee said...

Pat, I think the ANTI views on this are extremely exaggerated. Most valid studies tell us children learn English quickly and assimilate very quickly, hence the need for the Dream Act. These students are qualified and eligible for college entrance.

Liquidmicro said...

There was a lawsuit filed in CA last year or so from an ’Illegal’ hispanic student against the state because she could not pass the high school exit exams, she did not receive her diploma and she could not go on to college to get a nursing degree.
Now I for one, if she could not pass the high school exam, which by the way is an 8th grade equivency test, would not want to go to the hospital she was working at for fear of being given the wrong amount or wrong prescribed medication because she could not read english well enough to understand what to give me.
At the end of the trial, she got a pass, and the ruling by Judge Robert Freedman blocked the state from withholding diplomas for the first time from high school seniors who have satisfied all graduation requirements except one: passing the exit exam, a test of 7th- to 10th-grade English, math and algebra skills.

Here’s her credits according to Richmond High School:
English/Language Arts 40
Credits
Mathematics 30
Credits (including
Algebra I or higher)
Science 20
Credits
Social Science 30 Credits
Physical Education 20
Credits
Fine Arts/Foreign
Language 10
Credits
Electives 75
Credits
225 Total Credits

Bearing these numbers in mind, I have two questions:

1. How did Ms. Valenzuela pass all of these courses with roughly an ’A’ average if she cannot grasp 7th grade math or communicate proficiently in English?

Here’s the rub!

Clearly she was either taught these courses in Spanish (her primary language) or the teachers simply granted high marks to all students who were still breathing at the end of the day.

This brings us to my second question:

2. If the State of California was willing to

a) Incur the expense of administering all of her courses in Spanish and;
b) Provide her with instructors capable of teaching her to perform at such an exceptional level then;

How can it be said that Ms. Valenzuela attended "substandard schools with unqualified teachers, insufficient textbooks, and squalid conditions."

Anybody with even a modicum of sense would say she had an exceptional education, perhaps a better education than the typical English-speaking student would receive when you consider the advantage of one-on-one instruction.

She isn’t the victim of unfair treatment, she’s the beneficiary of special treatment.

English-speaking children get an off-the-rack education in California, non-English speaking children (specifically Spanish-speaking) get a tailor-made education.

Now it seems Valenzuela and others like her have found a way to graduate from an American High School without having to meet the same standards as everybody else, without having to even speak English.

As for her aspirations in nursing�

A registered nurse needs, in most cases, a four-year degree.

Most four-year, accredited schools require either the SAT or the ACT exam for admission, neither are offered in Spanish.

Additionally, I would think math comes into play at some point in the education of a registered nurse, 7th grade proficiency has stumped Valenzuela.

Finally, the State Nursing Board only administers the license exam in English.

So what is going to happen to Ms. Valenzuela?

One of two things:

1. She will find herself competing with students who have mastered the English language and can also do basic math (or better), students who learned to work hard because they had to meet higher standards.

As a result, she will find that she is qualified for little more than a job in the service industry, in short, no better off than life would have been without her ’American Dream’ education.

2. She will sue everybody and their brother over the ’discrimination’ surrounding the SAT or ACT, college admission standards and various State Licensing Boards.

As a result, Americans will find their healthcare in the hands of somebody in no way qualified for the job; in short, worse off than we were before we decided to pay for her ’American Dream’ education.

patriot said...

They don't learn it quick enough to keep up in school with native English speakers and that was my point. There are articles all over the net about how they are slowing down our kids. We shouldn't be educating them at all!

No Dream Act! They are illegal aliens. What part of that don't you understand?

Dee said...

Liquid,
I do agree with you. English should be the primary language in our schools and all exams should be in English, unless they are language courses.

I believe this particular case is the exception vs the norm. I am familiar with my city, my state and the states I have lived in. I know English is the primary language in school districts I have encountered or in schools my children or my relatives have attended, this includes San Antonio.

Unless the student was a new arrival into our country, I know of no reason why it would be accepted or condoned.

Anonymous said...

Dee, I've read this conversation, and you impress me as being a noisy person who is very impressed with herself. Let me clue you in, you're deluded.

Dee said...

Glad I impressed you Anon.

Do you have a blog? Would you like to contribute here?

We discuss the issues civilly here. Hope you start discussing soon.

BTW, next time you post, will you leave your name as John or Mary? No need to leave your real name, but Anon posters get confusing and I would like to reply to you.

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