Sunday, February 17, 2008

Labor Shortages in Oklahoma and Arizona

A number of people from other blogs have been asking me about Labor Shortages in States that have passed restrictionist Immigration Laws. Here are some news reports from Oklahoma and Arizona.

In Oklahoma, it appears the stricter the enforcement, the more pronounced the Labor Shortages: Reports:
As immigrant workers flee the state, immigrant-heavy sectors such as construction have seen varying declines of skilled workers. In Tulsa, where enforcement has been more pronounced, so have labor shortages. The distress it has caused in the construction sector in Oklahoma County has been only slight. Overall, the blow of immigration enforcement appears to have been softened by less building, experts said. "I would say in Tulsa, it has been as devastating as they had expected,” said Mike Means, president of the Oklahoma State Home Builders Association. By contrast, Means said, builders in Oklahoma County have adapted to working with fewer crews and are still getting the job done.
...People such as William Triplett, a Mesa truck driver, bristle when told Americans won't work some jobs. "I know they would. You have to advertise for them and make transportation available," he said. The business community maintains it has done what it can to fill jobs with Americans, and that a labor shortage hurts the state's growth. "We must find a way to ensure Arizona businesses have access to a sufficient number of legal workers. Relying on our broken federal immigration system makes this nearly impossible," said Glenn Hamer, president of the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry, in a statement. Joe Sigg, the director of government relations for the Arizona Farm Bureau, said raising wages would not fill growers unmet needs."Just paying more doesn't increase the size of our native-born labor pool," he said.


Liquidmicro said...

No Sign of Greenspan’s Recession in Mid-America; Growth Likely to Advance with Inflationary Pressures Stabilized

Oklahoma: For the first time since November, Oklahoma’s Business Conditions Index strengthened to a healthy 57.9 from January’s 50.4 and up from December’s 54.8. Components of the overall index for February were new orders at 57.1, production at 60.2, delivery lead time at 42.9, inventories at 42.7 and employment at 56.9. “Over the past year, Oklahoma’s unemployment rate has declined by 0.4 percent moving below the nation’s jobless rate. Our survey indicates that Oklahoma’s unemployment rate will change little in the months ahead even as job growth remains healthy through the second quarter of 2007,” said Goss.

Dee said...

The most pertinent section of this article to the restrictionist laws:
"In Tulsa, where enforcement has been more pronounced, so have labor shortages."

patriot said...

Restrictionists laws? That is the dumbest term I have ever heard. Have to attach an adjective to it right? It helps with the melodrama.

Dee said...

These are well known terms.

ultima said...

Pat is right. "Restrictionist" is just another ad hominem term designed to inflame the debate by casting those one disagrees with in a negative light and arousing passions instead of reason among others.

Labor shortages are a good thing, especially in the construction business. Since when have these illegal aliens suddenly become skilled workers? When equilibrium is reached and if employers do the right thing, the labor shortage should reduce the ranks of unemployed citizens. That would be a good thing, right?

Dee said...

The terms used in these reputable articles illustrate the methods used by the various agencies. As the article indicates, "in Tulsa, where enforcement has been MORE PRONOUNCED"

More Pronounced = Police proactively stop and search vehicles containing Hispanics and ask for IDs.

Many from the area call this Racial Profiling. And these measures are what is causing workers to MOVE and therefore LABOR SHORTAGES.

In areas such as Oklahoma City, where the laws are NOT PRONOUNCED, then the local Hispanics DO NOT FEEL Harassed or Racial Profiled and are not fleeing the area and Therefore NO LABOR SHORTAGE.

From the Article:
"As immigrant workers flee the state, immigrant-heavy sectors such as construction have seen varying declines of skilled workers. In Tulsa, where enforcement has been more pronounced, so have labor shortages. The distress it has caused in the construction sector in Oklahoma County has been only slight. Overall, the blow of immigration enforcement appears to have been softened by less building, experts said. "I would say in Tulsa, it has been as devastating as they had expected,” said Mike Means, president of the Oklahoma State Home Builders Association. By contrast, Means said, builders in Oklahoma County have adapted to working with fewer crews and are still getting the job done. "

patriot said...

Yeah, well known terms that only the pro's use to make the laws sound harsh. We are on to you.

patriot said...

Phoenix Police to Check Arrestees’ Immigrant Status
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD, The New York Times, Feb 16, 2008

PHOENIX — The police in this city at the center of the immigration debate will soon ask all people arrested whether they are in the United States legally and will in certain cases report the information to the federal authorities, Mayor Phil Gordon announced on Friday.

People stopped for civil traffic violations like speeding will NOT be questioned, nor will crime victims or witnesses.

All those arrested on criminal charges like drunken driving and murder will be asked by officers whether they are in the United States legally.

Note: as the article states, cars will not be stopped randomly and Latino drivers will not be questioned about their legal status only in the case of the above criteria which involves serious crimes.

Racial profiling my behind, dee.

Dee said...

The racial profiling in Tulsa has been well documented by very credible news sources as well as comments from the people of Tulsa.

Your articles says, in AZ, says police "WILL SOON ASK." We will have to wait to see if they go by their word and do not racially profile. Most people are taking a "wait and see" perspective since AZ and the tactics of Sheriff Arpaio are well known.

patriot said...

Let's see those "credible" sources that prove without a doubt that there is racial profiling going on without "probable" cause.

Dee said...

Read Randy Terrell´s quote. Notice he refers to Latinos. To him, legal citizen Latino vs illegal immigrant Latino makes NO DIFFERENCE! Just Latino:

"Oklahoma Rep. Randy Terrill, a Republican who sponsored that state's legislation, says the law's main thrusts are to force undocumented immigrant families to return to their countries and keep the state from subsidizing the cost of illegal immigration.
Less than four months since the law was implemented, Terrill says there is "anecdotal evidence" that LATINOS are leaving the state.
"It seems to be working pretty well," he said. "What was Oklahoma's problem is now some other state's problem."

Dee said...

Even OKs Republicans are saying it is an AWFUL Bill:

Oklahoma Sen. Harry Coates, a Republican, said he would warn Utah lawmakers to reconsider supporting what he called a "mean-spirited" bill.
"If they think anything about their morals or their business people, they will kill that bill pronto," Coates said. "It's an awful law. . . . It just says IF YOU LOOK DIFFERENT and don't speak English, WE DON´T WANT YOU HERE."

Pat, as noted:
Rep Coates is defining RACIAL PROFILING!

Dee said...


...the law has created a "very hostile" environment for nonwhites, especially Latinos, because everyone's legal status is questioned.

patriot said...

dee, you know I am really growing weary of your constant harping about racial profiling and victimhood. As I said before, since Latinos are the majority of illegals in this country, they will be more under suspicion than other ethnic groups. Instead of sticking up for the illegals you should be angry that they are creating this situation for legal Hispanics. As I said, any Latino that is asked for proof of their legality in this country has nothing to fear if they have the proper documents. I don't wish to discuss this any further with you because you are being unreasonable and thats because you have an un-American, ethnocentric agenda behind all of this "concern".

These new laws being implemented under our states now are not unreasonable. Our federal government has ignored this situation far too long and our states can't afford to pay the consequences anymore. You will see that most if not all states are going to take this kind of action and rightly so. Then they will have nowhere to run but back home where they belong. Our economy will recover just fine in the long run. You think that the initial short term impact is indicative of the long term effect on our economy, it isn't!

Dee said...

If you are getting weary now, boy will you get tired, cuz honey, "You ain´t seen nothin yet!"

With all the Racial Profiling that is happening with these restrictionist laws, I am going to make it my mission to openly discuss this issue here and to go to other websites and forums to discuss this. Racial Profiling should not be happening.

Dee said...

I am glad you wrote that because I will come back to your post every time I get tired to gain more motivation to continue this fight against Racial Profiling!!

patriot said...

Be sure when you get up on your soapbox dee, that you mention how unfair it is for any white male to be questioned during an investigation when it is known that a white male has committed the crime.

Dee said...

No one should be racially profiled Pat. Not even White Males.

patriot said...

dee, just how do you expect an investigation to be conducted if those who resemble the accused of the crime and other likely criteria, aren't questioned? Is that what you call "racial profiling"?

Dee said...

Did they question you when they were looking for BTK? White male, over 50, Christian, etc.

Liquidmicro said...

Nothing like a little labor exploitation:

Kentucky Landscape Contractor Sentenced for Employing Illegal Aliens

"and that illegal alien employees were a subclass of employees. The illegal alien employees were treated differently than the employees documented or authorized to work in the United States. For example, the illegal employees were paid a flat rate no matter how many hours they worked during the week."

Laws are in place to help prevent 'exploitation', thats why they need proper authorization and legal documentation to work here, however as the owner stated in the article, "he will just pay the fine". Its all about profits for the employer. If these 'Illegals' would come in properly and/or just leave and go back to their countries of origin, it would have an affect on employers like this.

patriot said...

You are comparing apples to oranges here, dee and being ridiculous. Illegals are all over the country by the millions. We don't have millions of BK killers living all over the country. But if I had been living in the area and bore a resemblence to him, I wouldn't object to being questioned as I could prove me innocence. Just as some who are questioned about their legal status in this country and can prove that they are. Can you say the same thing for the illegals who are all guilty of violating our immigration laws?

patriot said...

Also in your BK serial killer scenario dee I would be questioned under different circumstances. Those questioning me wouldn't be arresting me for committing a serious crime already.

Under the scenario with the illegals, the only time they will be questioned about their legal status is if they were being arrested for another serious crime unrelated to immigration status. Otherwise, they are getting a pass. Seems I would have more right to complain under my scenario than theirs but I wouldn't anyway because interrogation is one of the tools that law enforcment use to solve a crime. Many times the innocent get questioned. You are old enough to know this simple fact of life.

Dee said...

Hmmmm Pat,
I watch "To Catch a Predator." I hear the news crew is coming to your neighborhood.

Hopefully you won´t be racially profiled.

But, Beeeee Careful!

patriot said...

There is no racial profiling going on with illegal aliens, dee. Cut the BS. Do I have to repeat yet again that only those who are arrested for a serious crime will be asked for their papers? It won't just be Latinos either. Poor dee, forever the victim. Forever repeating the same old crap.

Liquidmicro said...

This story pretty much debunks anything you have stated, Dee, about Oklahoma.

This could also mean that sine there is NO SIGNIFICANT IMPACT to employers, that just maybe the exodus of the supposed 50,000 employees were paid under the table, no taxes, paid in cash.

Dee said...

Hardly Liquid.
You post an op-ed with comments by ANTI groups such as the heinous MM group IRON and you get the answers they want to deliver.

To the contrary, just read any of the valid, unbiased news reports from Tulsa and other OK news reports I provided. They give you the facts.

Liquidmicro said...

Op-ed???? This article is no different than any article you post and claim as truth. Some articles you have posted from Oklahoma papers, most, however, are from newspapers outside Oklahoma and Arizona. So, please show me where this is an op-ed piece, when in fact its an article no different than what you post. Your going to tell me that Paul Kane, chief executive of the Home Builders Association of Greater Tulsa, is a MM or a MM supporter? How about Bryan Properties, which manages about 300 houses and duplexes, many of them in east Tulsa, owner Kimberly Smedley said fewer Spanish-speaking people are looking to rent. House Bill 1804 hasn’t cost her any of her tenants or made it harder to find someone to patch a leaky roof, she said. What about this: Dick Anderson, vice president of Associated General Contractors of Oklahoma, said he got only a couple of reports from panicked contractors afraid the new immigration law would wipe out their work force.

“A big concrete contractor thought he was going to lose a third of his work force,” Anderson said of the association which has offices in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

“And then we had a landscape contractor who thought all 92 of his guys were going to move to Arkansas,” Anderson said. “They never came to fruition.”

What about the school district? “In reality, it has not had a significant impact,” said Tulsa School District spokesman Tami Marler.

Are you calling these people liars, MM's, racists, xenophobes???? Or do you just believe the headlines you read and can not subjugate the difference between what is happening and what you believe to be happening?

Yet the best paragraph of the whole story is: “Once they realized Oklahoma had not turned into a Gestapo state, they thought they would come on home,” said Vaughan, of United Front, still is shuttling immigrants without driver’s licenses to the church where he is associate pastor.

You should have taken the position of driving up to Tulsa and saw for yourself, Anon said he lived there, I have an Aunt just outside of Tulsa and my parents were just there a few weeks ago.

Anonymous said...

Yep. Gotta love your SHITTY roads. Now it'll take even LONGER. Can't WAIT for my next car maintenance.

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