Sunday, February 17, 2008

Make A Difference!

Why do I blog? As my Mission Statement says, I blog “To provide a forum where people, both PRO and ANTI, can discuss American Immigration Issues civilly, freely and safely thereby reducing the hate, anger and misunderstandings currently inherent in most of these discussions.”

I think it is important that both sides have an opportunity to read articles from reputable, neutral sources which provide up to date Immigration (legal and illegal) news reports. I also include Politics and articles about the Economy since these topics are closely related to Immigration.

The vast majority of my commenters are ANTIs. Some of them give me a hard time, but overall, we remain civil and sometimes we change each others´minds. Many of my PRO viewers email me and send me kind words. Many do not post because, as they say, they don´t want to be attacked by the ANTIs.

Last year, a Professor from a California University wrote to me and said, “Your blog is so beautiful that I offer it to my students as a model of what they (and I) can achieve. I'm really trying to encourage them to use the power of the First Amendment and the Internet to enter public discourse and be heard. We've had a couple of flamers from white supremacists groups which briefly intimidated and confused my students, so I was so happy and relieved when an excited student came to my office hours, ... to tell me how you responded to one of her blogs on immigration and encouraged her to keep writing. It meant so much to her to hear positive feedback from a member of the public. Thank you for that, and thank you for your generous gesture to help with advice in business and politics. I'm sure I'll take you up on it.” I am touched each time I read this letter.

I also participate on other blogs and forums. Today, a neutral (neither PRO nor ANTI) commenter wrote, “I highly recommend Dee's blog. She posts articles that show both sides of the issue…..There are plenty of articles on her site in which she quotes employers in the roofing industry, in the ag industry, etc complaining that the exit of the 12 to 20 million undocumented will force them to pay higher wages to the US citizens that remain in the labor pool. Read Dee's site. Also read the links to George's material. If you read everything on Dee's site and you read all George's material you will be well positioned to make your own choice.” His kind words also touched me.

Every once in a while I will get a rather mean or angry ANTI asking me to stop my blog. The very fact that they are asking me to stop tells me that my message is getting through.

All of this feedback reminds me I should never lose my motivation or my drive.

If I can help one person understand there are two sides to the Immigration issue, If I can help one person understand there are good people on both sides of the issue, If I can help one person understand Comprehensive Immigration Reform is a logical solution, If I encourage one person to understand they have a right to their opinion, they have a voice and freedom of speech, then I have accomplished my Mission.

I encourage everyone to start a Blog. Make a Difference!


Liquidmicro said...

Bravo Dee, Bravo.

We may have differing views and opinions, but without you and your blog I would have to start my own, for which I do not have the time for. Thanks for the spot on the web to air my opinions and views without being called, racist, xenophobe, nativist, etc., unlike many other blogs and forums.

Dee said...

Gosh Liquid! Thank you! I am so flattered by your compliments!

ultima said...

I agree with liquid but I wonder if you carefully reviewed all of the article, etc. that you have posted and to which many of us have responded whether this would show that those posts are equally balanced between both sides of the immigration argument. My observation has been that those articles and posts have been largely negative to the anti point of view. Can you verify this?

ultima said...

I think the MATT blog has made a bigger effort to portray the two points of view. It's unfortunate that more people do not choose to use that forum which has largely made good on its neutral position regarding its own posts and op eds.

patriot said...

First of all unlike the pro's, the anti's don't attack the messenger, they attack the message. The reason there aren't many pro's willing to post in here is because they know they have no viable arguments so they use that as an excuse not to post.

Liquid you have a short memory in here. We anti's have been called racists and other vile names in here by the blog owner on occasion. Although, from what I am told she has toned herself down since MATT. Let's just speak the truth in here, ok?

patriot said...

Ultima, I have visited the MATT blog but haven't posted there because I don't like the format. This blog's format is much better as far as readability and ease of posting. I would post there if they had a better format. From what I understand their now defunct forum was more reader friendly too.

Liquidmicro said...

Actually, Pat, I have been arguing against Dee since MATT, prior to it being closed due to JoelRios and his A-Hole Gene remark. Dee seems to, as Joel does, blame the ANTI's for MATT's closing, however she also seems to know the reason why MATT closed the Forum, so Dee, please do tell.

Dee only points out that some of the statements that some of us make are construed to be Racist, Xenophobic, etc. At times she claims the laws are Racist, Xenophobic, etc. Look at her Racial Profiling excuses about HB1804.

There are times as well when Dee shows her ethnocentric bias, and then we call her on it. Dee has had a change of heart, for the better towards our side in some of her rants, she has changed her views about wanting citizenship for all 'Illegals' here. She has opened her eyes in regards to the lack of the use of the H-2A visas, although her NAFTA thread went no where, I did respond with a rebuttal to it, which no body answered. What needs to be done in here and elsewhere is the rebuttal of the messages and not demonizing the messenger. Dee likes playing with words, attck her wording and correct it, demonstrate a moral and ethical attack and she will be left in aw.

Now, Dee, answer the discussion of the differences between OK, AZ and CA in the other topic and what sets there economies different. Quit diverting the subject matter to something that is not equivocal to the question. If you can.

Dee said...

My Mission is:
To provide a forum where people, both PRO and ANTI, can discuss American Immigration Issues civilly, freely and safely thereby reducing the hate, anger and misunderstandings currently inherent in most of these discussions.

Dee said...

Unfortunately, people like Pat are out to create anger and rhetoric in this conversation.

There is no such thing as Reconquista.

What is true is we have a beautiful, multi cultural society in our country and it is thriving.

Dee said...

Pat, Your anger is very, very sad.
I promote civility on this forum. I sincerely hope you choose to comply.

patriot said...

Same old dee, dodging the questions again and instead bringing up justified anger to dodge the questions. What has having different minority cultures in this country have to do with the questions that I asked?

Dee said...

I understand as well as anyone who read the discussion board you are addressing, is that the ANTIs on that board come on to antagonize. Guess what. They do antagonize. And guess what. The residents do respond in kind. That is what happens.

Here, on my blog, I ask for civility. I ask that we discuss unbiased issues civilly.

I do allow people like you to go over the top, as you do, with your anger. I don´t respond in kind. I choose not to.

The point in my blog, is as stated. I want us to discuss both sides of the issue, civilly.

I also choose not to moderate or censor you.

That, you call Freedom. Maybe other forums don´t allow you that much freedom. So be it.

Dee said...

You choose not to listen.
With you, it is always a one sided argument.
You spout. Listen to yourself.
The end.

Dee said...

Well Ulty,
You do make a point.

I do post articles from reputable, neutral sites which I think will promote an open dialogue.

However, I do post articles that are of interest to me.

Each site, even those you mention, have a perspective and an agenda. The ANTIs and the PROs.

Dee said...

Poor, poor Pat.
Don´t you recognize that the bashers in that forum go there to disrupt it? It is so obvious, it is as plain as the nose on your face.

There are a number of ANTI groups that go to PRO blogs and forums just to disrupt them. But of course, you already know this.

dianne said...

Well, I guess there's a lot of history that I don't know about.. probably a good thing.

What kind of gets me is what good is any of this doing. One side is trying to convince the other and it will never happen. Both are entrenched in their beliefs. The same arguments come up over and over again. And besides that, only the bigwigs (corporations, lobbyists, national organizations etc.) are going to actually make a difference in how the law is enforced or changed anyhow. We aren't.

One thing I have learned in the past few years is that illegal immigration reached critical mass a few years ago and that really had a big affect on people's viewpoints. It seemed like all of a sudden illegals were everywhere. They spread out from the major states like calif, ariz, texas and suddenly they were in every small town in the country from east to west and north to south and they brought changes to the communities, oftentimes changes that meant crowding in schools, hospitals, and burdens on social systems. Taxes started to go up and up. We in our small town suddenly found ourselves with so many ESL learners that we didn't have space for them or teachers that were qualified to work with them and so the school district had to ask for bond money from the public to handle them which of course meant an increase in taxes for everybody. No state or town was immune and also the culture seemed to change just as suddenly.

I bring this up because a limit was reached which was no longer tolerable. Before that, people really didn't complain. If something isn't done to stop this now, I fear it will get worse and worse resulting in dangerous outcomes. We must stop this. We must have a border wall. We cannot continue to absorb millions of people and the costs associated with them.

Comprehensive immigration reform cannot mean legalizing everybody already here and continuing to have a porous border. The landowners who are fighting the fence cannot be allowed to drive the entire country into chaos.

If something isn't done soon, I fear the consequences.

Anonymous said...


thank you

you are so often the voice of common sense here.

I have sympthy for both the pro and the anti side

i agree with the pros that many of the 12 million undocumented are basically good people that we should be proud to have as our fellow citizens

i agree with the antis that overall these 12 million cost our society more in taxes than they pay in. They are a net drain on our tax dollars

There are two sides to the issue - let's say that the presence of the 12 million is a net drain on our society - that doesn't mean that they should be demonized.

In the end, states governments should decide what they want to do. I believe that California and Texas will basically vote to be sanctuary states and many other states will emulate Arizona.

I think that there will be competition between the states for businesses and for legal residents. If the states with zero undocumenteds are a better place to live, they will win by attracting the best citizens and businesses.

if Dee is right and the sanctuary states are overall better, they will win by getting the best citizens and businesses to settle there.

I would ask everyone, pro and anti, what is wrong with having different states have different policies. Free competition to figure out what system is better

patriot said...

dee, there may be "some" who do that just as the pro's do it in the anti forums but what about all those racist remarks against whites in there and their reconquista agenda? Their posts are all right there for you to read. You are dodging again, dee. If you are going to continue to dodge and spin my questions then don't bother to reply to me as it is insulting.

Dee said...

I live in TX. I appreciate a multi cultural society.
If you feel it just crept up on you, I guess that is yours to feel that way.
What crept up on me was the anger in this debate. That is why I decided to find out more, then I started this blog.

I am glad you joined. We can and do discuss civilly and I think that is a good sign.. at least a start.

Dee said...

I see it differently.
And Pat, I realize no one can change your mind about anything.
Such is life.

Dee said...

I don´t address those comments any more than I would address the comments on Alipac.
Additionally many from Alipac deliberately go to the other site in their attempt to disrupt it.

We will maintain a level of civility here and I will not allow outright name calling profane language on my site. That is why I deleted your comment just now with that type of language. It is not going to happen here.

patriot said...

Oh here we go again with the wonderful "multi-cultural" society we supposedly live in.

Now this is interesting on a few levels, but the most obvious to me is this: WHAT "multicultural, peaceful society???" Let's start with the "muli-cultural one. When the entire hemisphere is Hispanic, where is the multiculturalism of which you speak, dee? So, South American will be primarily Hispanic, Central America and Mexico and then the U.S. Hispanic. Am I missing something here? And yeah, all of this multiculturalism is sure bringing about a lot of peace, isn't it?? Just ask the Latinos and blacks out in L.A. and other areas of the country. Just ask the whites who are fleeing their once tranquil communities to get away from all of that "multicultural peace."

Are you writing all of this crap from behind the protection of a gated community or something? Because nobody who is actually living through the multicultural nightmare has anything good to say about it.

Then do you see where someone in HB pipes up and says that the increase in the Latino population (and coressponding decrease of the white) will be an improvement? Is that not a not-so-subtle backhanded insult to whites again?

They are truly amazing. If there was going to be such an improvement, why are their countries such crapholes and they are risking their lives trying to get into ours? It's just like the Muslims trying to tell the Europeans that massive immigration from their lands is "improving" Europe. WHERE IS THE IMPROVEMENT? Where is the proof that massive Mexican immigration has improved Southern California???

AND ONE LAST THING, DEE. The "world" is not "evolving" to a multicultural society. What is happening is that third world people are retaining their race and their cultures in their homelands, yet at the same time, inundating mostly Caucasian countries. So, the only thing that is happening is that the non-whites are becoming a majority in formerly white countries, while still maintaining their majority status and cultures in their own homelands! WHERE IS THE DIVERSITY OF WHICH YOU ARE SPEAKING! The Arabs are not changing their culture-they are merely inundating Europe and making them more Islamic! Latin America is not changing ITS culture, they are merely inundating the U.S. and making it more Mexican/Latino. WHERE IS THE DIVERSITY??? How is Latin America becoming MORE DIVERSE?? HOW IS THE MIDDLE EAST BECOMING MORE DIVERSE??? The only "evolving" I see is that white countries are becoming less white. The other countries aren't changing at all! The "diversity door" only swings one way. And this is an improvement, how??? It could only be considered an improvement by one with a deep-seated animosity towards whites. When all the white countries are turned into replicas of the non-white countries, where will everyone flee to then?????

These people are sick, sick, sick. And of course, if you are white and raise any objections to this, you are a "Nazi." Because we all know that whites are evil and have no right to exist as a race and must embrace and rejoice at their demise just as every other tribe which has gone extinct has rejoiced at their fate! (NOT!)

That is what is pushing us anti's more to realizing that we'd better start standing up for the White race or it will be destroyed. We have a right to survive just like they do. We don't hate any other race and do not wish them ill, but by God we do not have to watch our people destroyed just to prove how "enlightened and non-racist" we are!

Dee said...

When I say multi cultural, I look around and I see Barack, or Tiger Woods. I see Salma Hayek or Derek Jeter. I see my family, my children. All multi cultural.

I have a variety of ethnicities in my family and we are all beautiful Americans!

patriot said...

And they are all Americans. What you have described are mostly races not cultures. If you read my post, you will see we will no longer be multi-anything but mono-you know who in a few short years. But that is what you want anyway.

dianne said...'s your blog and your motives are perfectly good. I just don't know what it will accomplish except be a sounding board for everyone, including me, so that's a good thing I guess. I would not tolerate hate if it was my blog either.

I just thought of something though that I'd like share about my community that I'm sure is relevant.

The reason we got an influx of illegal immigrants here in my small town is one company, a Canadian company at that, came to town about 10 years ago promising jobs for local people, etc. In turn, the city gave them an exemption from property taxes .. 100% for 10 years. What did they do? They hired majority illegals and paid wages below the standard here. In the meantime the residents didn't get an exemption from their property taxes. In fact they got an increase (3 of them in 10 years) primarily due to costs of schools. Now recall the company during this time was paying no property taxes which included no school taxes.

About 5 years after the company came, they had an expansion and the city once again gave them an exemption from property taxes on their expansion and they hired more illegals. Just last fall that same company asked for and got another huge expansion and another exemption from property taxes. This was when the school district asked for their third bond and part of it was several million dollars for new classrooms/buildings for ESL learners, which by the way, the school district said was mandated by federal law which required separate classrooms that they didn't have.

That third bond issue failed. The community was fed up. The residents were shouldering all the costs, the corporation was paying nothing and taxes were going out of control. The school district is now desperately trying to figure out what they are going to do.

Which leads me back to the greedy corporation. And, there are many corporations just like them. They exploit both the illegals and the citizens and they get off scot free. That is why states are passing laws like Ariz and Ok. That is why Kansas is looking at similar laws this year.

We need to put the monkey on the back of the guilty party and that, to me, is the employer.

This is all about economics to me. It's not about racism. And, it's not about multiculturism. When I see my standard of living declining because I must pay for corporate greed I get angry. But, I get even more angry when I think about my daughter and her family because they are just starting out in life trying to raise a family and the burden on them of things like school taxes is really hurting them financially. Our school district has 8 elementary schools. One of them is a Title IX school primarily because of all the illegal immigrants who report very low wages. Do you know that because that one school is a Title IX school, they get free dental care! Yes, that's right. Dentists are brought right into the school every year to fix the teeth of every kid in that school, but not in the other elementary schools in the same district..not in the one my grandkids go to and guess what, my grandkids don't get to the dentist because they can't afford it while the illegal immigrants get free dental care!!

Ok, I've blabbed on long enough. I just hope to give some insight into how I see things.

Dee said...

I agree with you. this is an economic issue. i agree that business (in your case, a canadian business) came into your community, with the concurrence of your local government, and exploited both the workers and the community.
The question is, why isn´t the business being held accountable?

I don´t know if the workers are illegal. We know, based on what you said they are Hispanic. However, think of the Venga a Michigan program. The state of Michigan establishes staffing offices in Texas to bring migrant workers up to Michigan. I believe they are citizens or may be H-2A Guest Workers. If legal guest workers, then the business owners should be accountable for their living quarters and any health benefits.

The problem you have is the business made a commitment to staff with local workers. Did they attempt to do this? It seems the city-state should hold them accountable for their commitment. I doubt they are.

Dianne, the problem I have with the laws in Tulsa, OK and the ones being put in place in AZ is the fact they are racial profiling. The police are proactively stopping cars and asking for identification. The news reports and many comments from the Latinos and Native Americans in those areas are confirming this as well.

If its any consolation for you, when I was a little girl, we were the so called Mexican family, Migrant Workers. We went to the schools. We worked the low paying jobs. We grew up as Americans, striving to achieve the American Dream. Now I am a grandmother who writes a blog.

patriot said...

dee, in the first thread I posted an article about Phoenix, Az and how they are handling the new law. I repeat, they are NOT racial profiling and they are only asking those who are arrested for serious crimes to show proof that they are in this country legally. I can't speak for Oklamhoma but I would assume that they are using the same criteria. You are just blowing smoke again.

dianne said...

Dee, from one grandma to another, you are always welcome in my home. I have absolutely no problem with my fellow Americans or those who truly want to be and are willing to contribute to the society we live in equally with the rest of us. I have a biracial granddaughter. I love her with all my heart. Her color is beautiful to me. I also love my country and I believe we have a right to secure our borders because we are securing our right to live here .. we have paid for it in taxes, in lives (wars), to the depth of our souls of who we are as Americans. This country is not just a place where anybody can come and live off the hard work of others before them who have spent their whole lives supporting this country. It isn't a day labor camp. It isn't a place where your paycheck comes from but your loyalty is someplace else. It's our home.

When we can all get there, I'm ok, but we're not there and we both know that.

Until then, have a wonderful day.

Dee said...

I agree with much of what you say.
I think you and I would be friends if we lived in the same town.

I too agree to secure borders and wish we could change all the Immigration issues that occurred over the last 100+ years.

I think we are both loyal Americans concerned with all that has happened over the last several decades and we both are concerned for our children and grandchildren.

I agree we need resolution to the Immigration issues we face today and also know and understand we are not there yet.

Maybe there is hope for us because most of us, on both sides, are people who care.


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