Sunday, June 8, 2008

Agriprocessors, Confident their PAC Money will Keep Them From Being Charged, Hires Compliance Officer! (former US Attornery - wink-wink!)

Agriprocessors is so confident their GOP PAC Money will keep them from being criminally charged, they have hired Jim Martin, a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri to serve as Compliance Officer to "monitor Agriprocessor´s compliance with state and federal laws." (wink - wink)
Agriprocessor´s, the largest and most blatant-heinous of all employers hiring and exploiting illegal immigrants, continues to go uncharged for their crimes whiles hundreds of workers were treated like ANIMALS and sent to Cattle Barns to wait for charges to be filed. Then they were subject to Cattle Barn prosecution. Most are now in Prison or Deported.
Agriprocessors Owners continue to go scot free, rubbing their freedom in the noses of Pro CIR supporters, naming their so called Compliance Officer! (The PROs rub their heads asking "Why doesn´t America Care?)
Meanhwhile, the media and the majority of the American Public have shown limited interest in identifying root cause or in penalizing the root cause, the employers, Agriprocessors. SHAMEFUL!!!
Agriprocessors, Inc. in Postville has hired a former federal prosecutor to monitor the meat company’s compliance with state and federal laws, a spokesman announced today.Jim Martin, a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri, will serve as the company’s corporate compliance officer starting immediately, according to a news release. Martin heads the Prevene Group, a St. Louis firm that helps companies comply with laws.“Agriprocessors’ 800 jobs are important to Postville and northern Iowa, along with the observant Jewish community across the country that relies on them for meat and poultry,” Martin said in the statement. “Agriprocessors can meet the needs of those who depend on the company and operate in compliance with all laws, and I intend to see that happen.”
The new hire came less than a month after federal immigration agents stormed the kosher meat-processing plant in what was later deemed the largest single-site raid in U.S. history. Nearly 400 illegal immigrant workers were arrested, and 305 were charged with immigration-related felonies.The bust also exposed allegations of physical and verbal abuse by the plant’s managers, though none have been charged.
From an observers perspective, it is very clear the exploited workers and all Latinos have been raked over the coals and this exploitation and abuse will continue while the employers and cronies to the Administration continue to flaunt their abuse.
Now, more than ever, all PRO Comprehensive Immigration Reform supporters must UNITE and Protest the irregularities by the ABUSERS, the Employers, and those that support them!


ultima said...

I noticed that there was veto proof support for the last farm bill from both sides of the aisle. Do you suppose the Democrats have the same thing in mind, protect the Agri-Businesses with blanket amnesty or whatever else they want?

dianne said...

This is a common tactic used by companies facing prosecution for various crimes. It's called "corrective action". For example, it is the #1 thing FDA expects companies to do when in violation of drug laws.

HOWEVER, that doesn't excuse past practices and is no guarantee they won't be prosecuted. I hope they fine and jail the responsible company officials from top to bottom. Actually, I believe they will. The gov. moves slowly as they do with everything else they regulate.

Now, as far as the illegal workers, they stole identities and should have been deported, as they were. Everybody who is pro seems to conveniently forget that there are victims of these crimes whose lives are made a living hell. The government doesn't help them at all and in fact won't even tell them who has stolen their identity. The IRS hounds them. They can't get loans, jobs. Their credit is wrecked. And, don't forget, anyone who steals identity, whether or not a citizen, is considered a criminal in this country.

patriot said...

dianne, that is what I keep saying. The wheels of justice turn slowly when in the investigative process. I do hope that if they are guilty that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent. I know most every American feels that way no matter what side of the immigration issue that they are on.

dianne said...

And, one more thing. Dee is outraged these people went to a "cattle barn". Dee, when US citizens are arrested for identity theft, they go to JAIL. Criminals aren't usually put up at the Hilton in any country.

Dee said...

The Admin and Congress, from both sides of the aisle, are protecting the employers.
It is absolutely shameful!

Dee said...

They were treated like Animals!
Obviously your side does not care!
Meanwhile Rubashkin goes scot free.

From Des Moines Register

Following the raid, the arrested workers were detained in barns at the National Cattle Congress in Waterloo, Iowa. In a press release issued that same day, announcing a temporary relocation of judges and other personnel to Waterloo, the federal district court referred to the "arrest and prosecution of numerous illegal aliens," prejudging facts about immigration status before any criminal charges were filed. At the cattle yards, detainees were shackled, wore prison garb, and had no opportunity to seek bond. Yet the vast majority of them reportedly had no criminal history.

The employer, Agriprocessors Inc., has not been criminally charged, but has been sanctioned repeatedly for violating environmental and labor laws. Allegations against the plant include employing immigrant children in dangerous and exploitive conditions.

Dee said...

It appears your side is ok with the workers being treated like animals and provided Cattle Barn justice.

Cattle Barn Justice:
Cattle Barn

cattle barn

dianne said...

Oh please, Dee. They weren't held in barns. They were held at the Cattle Congress buildings and fairgrounds. I read where their own lawyers had inspected the facilities and were satisfied that the people were treated just fine. For the most part the women were held in local jails, the same place that citizens who break the law are held. Many were released for humanitarian reasons. This business about being held in a barn with visions of people living as cattle is absolutely absurd. By the way, the author of your referenced article is some immigration professor at a university in another state who probably never even saw the facilities.

Liquidmicro said...

"Barns" is just much more dramatic and demeaning to use, it gives the PRO side their belief and reasons to be so angry. Again its nothing more than a"trigger" word to create and cause a dramatic effect to capture the attention and to try to warrant sympathy.

anon 1 said...

WOW, the utter one-sidedness is amazing. You honestly believe that the treatment of ppl in this fashion isn't demeaning. I agree that crimes like MURDER or conspiracy to COMMIT MURDER that THOSE ppl shouldn't be put up in the HILTON. But come on, ppl who find work, UNDERPAID, hard working ppl DONT DESERVE this treatment and your ANTI sides shows horribly in this case.

dianne said...

Jails or the equivalent are meant to be places to confine people. Do you not think ID thieves, citizens and noncitizens, should not be held in a jail?

You worry about demeaning people? Well, once again, what about the innocent victims of their identity theft? Not a word about them from the pro side. No sympathy for them.

patriot said...

dianne, here is a link to the story. Note that the workers were arrested on a Monday but they were only held temporarily in a makeshift building at the Cattle Congress until Wednesday...only two days. Probably because of the huge numbers that were arrested. Those with criminal charges were going to be placed in custody of the U.S. Marshall's Service and those only in violation of immigration law were going to be put in custody of ICE officials and granted a hearing with an immigration judge.

Since then it is my understanding that over 300 of the workers have been found to have criminal charges against them besides the violation of our immigration laws.

anon 1 said...

I'm all in favor of putting criminals in jail, you commit a crime you do the time, but why only the workers? The employers that have SEVERAL offences of taking advantage of ppl and paying them with scraps, get off with a hand-slap while ppl who work hard and want to keep a low profile get exploited along with their families. These ARE PPL!!! (oh thats right, doesn't matter to ANTI's because they should be treated like animals cuz they're ILLEEEEGAL).

ANOTHER THING, I love how this IDENTY THEFT (OMG INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS) gets blown up. It's one thing if someone has their identity stolen (god forbid) but it's another if someone uses a fake identity. I'll agree both are crimes and deserve jail time, but it's just like the ANTI's to take both scenarios and create ONE UGLY MONSTER. THEY'RE ALL ID THIEVING INVADERS!!!!

patriot said...

anon 1, I have already posted several links to cases where the employers here fined and/or jailed for hiring illegals. This case is still under investigation as are some others. You do know what "proof" is, don't you?

Oh stop exaggerating, no one wants illegals treated as animals. Another exaggeration is you implying that we anti's have said that ALL illegals are working under stolen identities. Of course they all aren't but a good portion of them do and a good portion of them use fake identities. Why doesn't the fact that even one would do that, not bother you as an American?

Dee said...

If the cattle barns they were herded to were so wonderful, I challenge you to send your mother or daughter to the next sweep. Let her go to the cattle barns en masse to be herded like cattel into those BARNS. You may use a fancy name like Cattle Congress, but I saw the barns the side by side cots.

Put your mother or daughter in the next sweep. Let me know when she is available. Give my your number so I can send it to ICE. It will be a nice "drive along" since you do not think it is so demeaning.

Dee said...

I appreciate your humanitarian attitude towards these people who were exploited by the employer.

It is just disgusting that the ANTIs dont care that they were treated like animals.

They dont care the employer walks around scot free.

It is so amazing they think the workers deserve to be treated like cattle. I would like to see their reactions if their mothers or daughters were swept like cattle to those cattle barns. They had not even been charged. Whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty!!

So very, very despicable.

Anon1, I am so glad you have a heart and you truly understand that this is PEOPLE we are talking about!

patriot said...

diane, I don't you recall you or liquid or myself saying that we want illegals treated inhumanely. With 400 workers arrested, it would be hard to find a place to put them all. As I stated, it was a temporary makeshift building used until they could all be processed. A period of only 2-3 days!

Reading the article that I provided, it was stated that the provisions for them in there were humane. As was also stated some were released to care for children and some for medical problems.

I don't suppose in the case of American citizens being arrested for committing crimes that are handcuffed and jailed would be much fun either but that is the price one pays for not obeying our laws. It is called justice!

The employer is under investigation and that was stated numerous times. I hope as all anti's do that if found guilty that they throw the book at this employer and anyone else in that company who was involved with this. I hope we continue to go after guilty employers in this manner and make them pay severely for the error of their ways.

Liquidmicro said...

Local Police could have came in and done the same thing, pretty much busting the "Illegal Immigrants" for identity theft, they don't even need 287(g) status for that. Then they all could have gone straight to jail and remained there instead of being given plea deals and fairly quick repatriation.

"Three months after the local police inspected more than a dozen businesses searching for illegal immigrants using stolen Social Security numbers, this community in the Florida Panhandle has become more law-abiding, emptier and whiter.
Sheriff Wendell Hall of Santa Rosa County, who led the effort, said the arrests were for violations of state identity theft laws. But he also seemed proud to have found a way around rules allowing only the federal government to enforce immigration laws. In his office, the sheriff displayed a framed editorial cartoon that showed Daniel Boone admiring his arrest of at least 27 illegal workers.

His approach is increasingly common. Last month, 260 illegal immigrants in Iowa were sentenced to five months in prison for violations of federal identity theft laws.

At the same time, in the last year, local police departments from coast to coast have rounded up hundreds of immigrants for nonviolent, often minor, crimes, like fishing without a license in Georgia, with the end result being deportation."

States Take New Tack on Illegal Immigration

ultima said...

"They were treated like Animals!
Obviously your side does not care!"

We have only a limited pool of sympathy for those who begin by violating our borders and proceed into identity theft, fraudulent documents, etc. When you have the final statistics on how many did not fall into one or more of these categories we can re-visit their treatment. I think Diane put her finger on it when she said a citizen guilty of the same offenses would be in jail.

I understand fully your unwarranted and overblown sympathy for these folks because of your own background a migrant worker. But you have to understand that there is more than one point of view on these matters and to take a partisan view that admits of no punishable wrongdoing on the part of the illegals is wrong and not likely to gain any support. We are uniformly in favor of punishing employers and illegals but we believe these workers brought their woes on themselves and they need to make the best of it, pack their bags at the earliest opportunity and head home never to return. In the meantime we should use all means at our disposal to see that the employers are also punished.

Farmers spend a good part of their days in barns all the time among their bovine companions. It's not nearly as bad as you might think. I don't quite understand the necessity for putting them in irons unless there was no other way to prevent them from escaping or because they were threatening to become violent. Normally docile prisoners are not bound hand and foot.

ultima said...

"Yet the vast majority of them reportedly had no criminal history."

In this country maybe, in Mexico who knows. Some would say their mere presence is a form of criminal history exacerbated by any identity theft for fraudulent documents. Are you deciding what is and what is not criminal behavior?

ultima said...

"It appears your side is ok with the workers being treated like animals and provided Cattle Barn justice."

As I recall you said you even took showers in a barn in Michigan or have I got that wrong. I wonder why there are still so many that are willing to work on farms and in barns if the latter is such a bad place to be every day.

Better barn justice than drum head justice with immediate deportation or execution as might be the case in other countries.

Your views on this matter are not very balanced. Have you ever proposed anything other than the punishment of employers which even the Antis agree with? Where is your schedule of punishments for illegals? We are waiting to hear your proposals along those lines so we can see how rational you are about this very significant problem in our country. There must be something more you can offer other than CIR with blanket amnesty, forgiveness for border violations, absolution for identity theft, excuses for the use of fraudulent documents. Does one who advocates along those lines sound like a reasonable person with a realistic set of proposals to solve the problem and secure the borders? Not to me. What you propose and have proposed are tantamount to no solution because we all know what you propose deals with only half of the problem -- the employers. You should know as well as just about everyone else that there can be no border security without tough measures being taken against both parties. We support tough measures against employers. When are you going to support tough measures against illegals?

Dee said...

Since no employer owners have faced serious jail time (except 1 recently and still not in jail), there is no frame of reference or comparison for equal punishment for employers.
We know the employers are the root cause yet they continue to go virtually unpunished. Why is that Ultima?
The analogy is, a group wanting to stop tomatoes from growing and cheers when the tomatoes are stomped on.

Dee said...

I have said my solution.

1. Secure Borders
2. Jail Exploiting Employers
3. Bring the 12M out of the shadows and those who are felony free allowed to get in line and apply for citizenship.

This would save billions in crony funds paid to crony prison owners and crony contractors.

WE would know who is in our country.

We would end the inhumane treatment to the workers. End the Detention Centers. End the Racial Profiling and the Sweeps.

Employers would be forced to hire only legal workers and the exploitation would come to an end.

Beautiful for All!!!

Anonymous said...

I agree with #1 and #2. I disagree with #3.

anon 1 said...

Why should any immigrant not be given the same rights to apply for citizenship anonymous? Would It be that your not wanting brown ppl to be your equal? ALLOT of ppl on both sides would agree with Dee's 3 suggestions and it would help all kinds of ppl, EVERYONE. The wages (from heinous employers) that your side complains about that ILLEEEEEEGALS are given (given? or forced to take) would be risen to minimum wage or higher. Your taxes you complain SO MUCH ABOUT going to towards gov assistance would be equaled by the 12 million turned legal having to pay taxes now. Is it so un-reasonable? Do you hate non-white ppl THAT much to deny anyone the same rights as you?

Dee said...

We would also save multi millions of dollars of the cost of the Detention Centers owned by the GOP cronies. We could close them ALL down! We could also stop ALL contracts to contractors like Blackwater who are building new training centers around the country. More multi millions!!

anon 1 said...


Anonymous said...

No anon1, I have nothing against brown people. Heck, I am married to a brown person. Although I have never referred to my spouse as a brown person. My spouse came to this country legally and is an American citizen. My spouse and I both are totally against illegal immigration and do not think that any thing that resembles amnesty should be given to illegals. There is a big difference between immigrants and illegal aliens. Choose your labels carefully.

Anonymous said...

And oh yes, we are absolutely for jailing any employer who hires illegals and punishing the employer to the full extent of the law.

Anonymous said...

anon 1,

I have no right to enter any country illegally. So, to answer your question, I would say that the
illegals should have the same rights as me--they cannot enter this country illegally.

Dee said...

Actually he said they should have the right to apply for citizenship just like anyone else.

Regarding the circumstances of HOW they came to this country, in Agriprocessors case, the solicited, hired and provided papers to almost 300 people from war torn, hurricane ravaged Guatemala. Many of those people have no where to return to.

Also, of the 12M, ICE tells us many of them have been here 5+ - 20+ years when the immigration laws went virtually unenforced. 40% are Visa overstays and did, in fact, come here legally.

Business has promoted illegal immigration for some time and they still do. Its not a wonder since, to date, none, even the most heinous like Agriprocessors are provided proper punishment.

The road to today´s Immigration environment was a long one and none of us should cast the 1st stone at those caught up in the sweeps and Cow Barns.

anon 1 said...

Thank you Dee for correcting anonymous for me. And anonymous, YOU may not have racist feelings towards ILLEEEEEGALS but believe me, you are in the minority in the ANTI group. MOST ANTI'S main reason for holding a grudge against ILLEEEEGALS is the color of their skin, you see it in the labels they give them, you see it in the words they use, and it's one of the MAIN reason's why we have an issue with immigration. Secondly, all the corruption with employer's hiring slave labor and getting away with it. Taking a chunk of the profits and paying off their crony politian buddies to keep these ppl ILLEEEGAL to avoid raising their wage to the gov mandated min wage level or higher or providing health care.

It's all one big volcano and it's done nothing big build and build. These ppl come here just wanting a chance, they ask for VERY little, just a chance.

Hopefully when OBAMA becomes prez, he will change things for the better. Thats all any of us can hope for.

patriot said...

anon 1, because these are "immigrants" we are talking about but illegal aliens, that's why! Law breakers shouldn't be rewarded with of all things our precious citizenship.

Race card pulling duly noted with the skin color remark. Typical of the pro-illegals. You are all bound to make this an issue of racism, aren't you? Well since you have no viable arguments I guess pulling the race card is all you have.

patriot said...

Corretion, "these "aren't" immigrants we are talking about....

Anonymous said...

anon 1,

Why are you so bitter? Did some cute anglo break your heart?

This country has to fix the problems that we have created for ourselves. Regardless how someone
came here, no matter how long, if they did not do it legally-they must leave and go to their home country and start the legal process
no matter how long it takes. People who have overstayed their visas or work permits are just as guilty as the ones that crossed the border illegally
Employers must be punished and illegals must be deported. We need to get rid of detention centers. We
have county jails to hold someone a couple of days and then deportation should be swift. Just because our government allowed this to go on for so long does not mean that we do not have the right to fix our system in any way we see fit.

Dee said...

I am going to ask Anon1 to let me respond again.
I have many PRO participants on my blog that choose not to “argue” with the ANTIs and email me directly. They are of many ethnicities. Anon1 is one of my emailers and is an Anglo. He is an American. He is young (in his twenties), married and a father.
He is not bitter at all. He is a realist and very honest. He has young children. He doesn´t want his children to be drafted in McCain´s 100year war.
He, like all of us, is looking for answers.
I have a large number of emailers and commenters like Anon1.
I a proud of them.
They are seeking first to understand.
Then they are making their own, personal decisions.
What I like best is the fact that people like Anon1 are studying the history of Immigration and deciding for themselves.
I think that is good!
I am proud of ALL people that are studying the issues and making their own choices.
Regarding what is happening in Iowa, there are a large number of us that disagree with Cattle Barn justice with no sanctions for Employers. Its enough to make many of us cry.

Do you have a heart anonymous? Do you care about people? Do you care about your children?

God Bless America!!!

Alie said...

Immigrants of any race, nation, or ethnicity can apply for citizenship. Immigrants enter the country legally in compliance with U.S. immigration law. Illegal aliens are not true immigrants.

If any of us were to enter any other country in contradiction to their immigration laws, we would not be allowed to work there and would be deported if apprehended also.

The more I read about this issue, the more I simply don't understand why the law is not being enforced. I have read all about the 1986 amnesty and how the American people were promised that the borders would be secured and immigration laws enforced. But, they didn't do it and now we have this mess. Why are Americans expected to give in once again, even after the first amnesty turned out to be a disaster and the government obviously lied to us? Why would anyone believe them now? I just don't get it.

What I see happening is that we grant legal status/citizenship to the present illegals. They will no longer be able to be exploited by employers. Employers demand a fresh supply of "cheap" labor. Newly legalized chain migrate family members they can bring legally and wave in more of their friends and relatives who cannot come legally. In 10 to 15 years, we are back at square one. But, this time there truly is no way to stem the tide. I simply do not logically see any other outcome.

I would, however, grant temporary work permits to the agricultural workers to work and make sure that the farmers are paying them what they should have under the H2A visas and provide housing like they were supposed to also. But no citizenship.

Liquidmicro said...

Chain family migration is the problem now, most Hispanic "Illegal Immigrants" are coming here with the promise of work through their family members getting them jobs.

Dee said...

I would ask you to ask yourself...
Why was Agriprocessors allowed to bring in over 300 workers from Guatemala in this new millenium. This was a war torn, hurricane ravaged country. Why was this allowed?
It is obvious why the accepted.
But why was a crony friend of the GOP allowed to solicit, hire, provide papers to people who were in so much need?

And then go unpunished. Even today, not charged.

Answer that question and perhaps you will find a solution.

Alie said...

But, was it truly allowed, or did they just do it and hope that they would get away with it?

At any rate, the American people were assuming that the immigration laws were being enforced as that is what was promised after the last amnesty. The fact that unscrupulous employers took advantage of desperate people is not the fault of the average American who had nothing to do with it and, in fact, was depending on their government to do what they are charged with doing: securing our borders.

I am 100% in favor of sanctions against employers who hire illegals. I think some of them have been punished, but I agree not enough.

I think part of the problem is that until there is a system in place where employers are required to check applicants to ensure that they are authorized to work, employers can always claim that they didn't know some of their employees were illegal. Many of the illegal workers work with forged documents and stolen identity, so they do have somewhat of a point. That's why I think e verify is a good idea. Once that is in place, then the employers will have no excuses.

The blame for illegal immigration falls to three parties IMO: the employers, the government, and the illegals themselves. The average American who does not hire illegals and did not ask them to come here are not to blame.

Liquidmicro said...

"Why was Agriprocessors allowed to bring in over 300 workers from Guatemala in this new millennium."

"in Agriprocessors case, the solicited, hired and provided papers to almost 300 people from war torn, hurricane ravaged Guatemala."

There is no proof that Agriprocessors "brought in workers" or were "allowed" to bring in workers from Guatemala, or that they provided "papers" to their workers. It is merely an assumption on your behalf.

Again Agriprocessors is an Incorporated Company, meaning it is its own entity. There is a CEO and a VP, and a Human Resources Department. Who actually hired these people?? If you want the CEO and VP arrested, change the law!! This is where E-verify would help tremendously in allowing "legal" workers to remain in working condition.

Whats to make you think that its the color of ones skin, when the entire argument is about the "Rule of Law"? Your argument is nothing more then throwing of the race card.

What makes you think that by granting "Illegal Immigrants" "legality" that it will change the employers ways of doing business? What proof do you have that it will force employers to change there ways? What makes you think that once the 12M are given legal status that they would still have jobs? Whats to guarantee that more "Illegals" won't come over thinking they will get the same benefit of "Legality" for "Illegally" crossing our borders?

Sure what you say in type sounds decent, to you, but there are no guarantees to prevent it from happening again in the future, it wasn't suppose to happen again after 1986. Yet look at us now.

Dee said...

The American Public did not assume anything. In fact, they didn’t think anything about Immigration or illegal immigration at all until the sites like FAIR and other ADL acknowledged hate groups began their media attacks with their pundits likeDobbs and Buchanan. The laws have gone unenforced for decades. These businesses want the laws to remain unchanged and the broken processes to remain unfixed so they can continue to exploit the workers and reap the profits. We need Comprehensive Immigration Reform, that is clear. Allow those here who are felonious free to get in line and apply for citizenship. Punish and jail the exploiting employers who don’t abide by the laws!

Allie said:
At any rate, the American people were assuming that the immigration laws were being enforced as that is what was promised after the last amnesty.

Allie said
I think part of the problem is that until there is a system in place where employers

patriot said...

alie, most Americans became aware of the magnitude of the illegal immigration problem when they saw their wages being depressed, certain industries were hiring only mono-lingual Spanish speakers or bi-linguals to service them, the crowded conditions in our schools and emergency rooms by mono-lingual Spanish speakers, businesses pandering to them in their ads, our taxes being increased to support them, many families living under one roof, sanctuary cities, entire neighborhoods and towns being taken over by mono-lingual Spanish speakers, uncontrolled increases in our population growth. Most of these negatives were not created by Hispanic CITIZENS. I was well aware of the problem before I ever watched Lou Dobbs, etc. because I live in Calif. where the problem is most severe. All one has to do is to open their eyes.

I am an older person so I remember it not being this way 30-40 years ago. It appears that the problem accelerated after the 1986 amnesty. Americans aren't being brain washed by anyone. The facts are right in front of our faces.

Dee said...

The Des Moines Register reports:
. Agriprocessors was NOTIFIED by ICE of more than 1,000 discrepancies between names and Social Security numbers on workers' W-2 forms sent to the IRS between 2002 and 2005.
. HIRING of Illegal Immigrants: 700 complaints of illegal immigration violations

Reports of Abuse:
. Employee Abuse: a supervisor covered the eyes of an employee with duct tape and struck him with a meat hook.
. undocumented workers were paid $5 an hour for their first few months before receiving a pay increase to $6 per hour. The minimum wage in Iowa is $7.25 an hour.


anon 1 said...

"anon 1,

Why are you so bitter? Did some cute anglo break your heart?"

lol, Why do you refer to your personal life and personal situations. Do you speak from example? lol, Dee pretty much summed up my life story.

But no, I'm not a bitter person. I just so how things are, (in here). How ppl say certain things to express their point of view and some of the time (for ANTI's) it's bitter, close minded, ugly. So I re-act on the same level to get MY point across.

patriot said...

Alleged accusations are not proof of anything. Repeating yet again! Agriprocessors is under investigation. It only happened a month ago.

This is why we need to make the no-match letters of SS#'s mandatory for employers to handle them rather than tossing them into the trash. I believe this legislation was stalled recently and probably by some liberal judge with pressure from the ACLU and other pro- illegal advocacy groups. One can scream about the employers all they want but if they continue to fight every piece of legislation to stop them then they have no reason to complain. E-verify, no-match letters and the Save Act will stop them but all I hear is objections from the pro side.

Dee said...

. Agriprocessors was NOTIFIED by ICE of more than 1,000 discrepancies between names and Social Security numbers on workers' W-2 forms sent to the IRS between 2002 and 2005.

This is 6 years ago!! They were NOTIFIED!!!

They are not getting charged. Neither did Swift. Neither did Pilgrims Pride. Neither did Hormel.

This is because none on your side nor the Administration nor the businesses themselves seriously cares about sanctioning or swift justice of the employers.

The workers charged received swift, cattle barn justice and are already in prisons or deported. This is so shameful!!!

patriot said...

There is no "mandate" at this time for employers to comply with notifications of no-match SS number letters, so it doesn't matter how long ago they were notified.

Yet there is legislation being held up right now by some liberal judge, the ACLU and pro-illegal advocacy groups to stop the "mandate." Employers would have to comply right away (not 6 years later) if this were "mandated."

Many examples of employers who have been fined and or jailed for employing illegal aliens have already been given in here. Many are still under investigation including Agriprocessors for the umpteenth time!

It isn't the anti's that don't want the employers punished...we are all for it by demanding that e-verify, the Save Act and no-match SS letters be "mandated" that the employers comply to. It is the pro-illegals who are stopping these types of legislations. How can one possibly deny this?

ICE had to use whatever large buildings were availabe to them to process the huge number of workers arrested. As stated before (and I seem to have to repeat myself over and over the same things because someone isn't listening) the workers were only held for a couple of days in those buildings and that is all. They were also entitled to a hearing with an immigration judge. They were given every right that they were entitled to under our laws.

Citizens are always given more time to make their cases when charged with crimes than illegals who admit they are here in the country illegally or can't produce any legal I.D. That is the way it works and should work. This country belongs to our citizens, not illegal aliens. Therefore citizens have more rights and leeway. But once convicted of a crime a citizen gets their just deserve.

Dee said...

As long as the Employers continue to go unpunished, we will have illegal immigrants employed.

No one on your side is seriously advocating they be sanctioned or imprisoned.

Instead you go dancing in the aisles when you see Cattle Barn justice in Iowa or anywhere else.

Sad state of affairs!

Dee said...

Agriprocessors is so confident they will not be prosecuted, they hired a former US Attorney to be their (wink wink) Compliance Officer.

Agriprocessors, the company that has been violating the law for years and has been sanctioned, the company who has given millions to GOP PACs, who hired over 300 Guatemalans in Iowa, who called ICE when they sought a union due to Agriprocessors abuses, Agriprocessors is so confident they will not be charged, hired a US Attorney. They are laughing at all of us having these discussions because they are going scot free!

dianne said...

"This is because none on your side nor the Administration nor the businesses themselves seriously cares about sanctioning or swift justice of the employers."

Dee, your quote above is ridiculous. How can I take you seriously when I and all the other antis on this blog have repeatedly said we want full and swift employer sanctions?
For whose benefit are you saying these falsehoods against us? Are you trying to falsely mislead your lurkers by making these accusations? We have all made it quite clear where we stand on employer sanctions and that is to throw the book at them. Patriot also rightly points out that it was the liberal side, the ACLU and the like that have forced the administration to stop action against employers who refuse to respond to the no-match letters.

We're not stupid, Dee. Please don't lie about us.

Dee said...

Hence the enigma.
How can you say you fully support employer sanctions yet, to date, few if any employers have been put in prison or had serious sanctions. Agriprocessors, the most heinous, the most cited (for years), the most horrific, has yet to even been given a wayward look.
Yet, your side jumps in glee with each sweep. I check the ANTI sites daily and after the Cattle Barn sweep, they were dancing in the aisles with happiness. The ANTI Youtube sites were just laughing and guffawing with every video.
Yet, they could care less about the employers, the true root cause because we all know if the employers didn´t hire, they would not be here.
This is WHY it makes your side appear Racist.
Just speaking the truth Dianne, and you know it.

dianne said...

Dee...I just looked at the NCLR site and they are against enforcing employers to act on no-match letters. They don't want the employers to do anything because they fear it will hurt the Latino community. Yet, you rail against Agri-Processors for doing nothing about their 500 no match letters. You can't have it both ways, Dee.

Look, I know what you really want. You want all enforcement put on hold until all the undocumented are on a path to citizenship. Then, you want enforcement, but you don't want to give the government any way to do it such as the REAL ID Act or any other method of identification. And, without that, it cannot be done and cannot be enforced. In other words, another failure after the previous failure.

Not this time.

patriot said...

Every anti forum I have ventured into wants the employers punished including the anti's in this blog.

I have given a few examples in here of employers who were punished by either being fined, jailed or both. The rest are still under investigation.

I haven't seen any anti's dancing in the streets about what kind of building had to be used to process 400 illegal workers because it is irrelevant. They were only in that building for 2 days to be processed. Jails and prisons aren't exactly the Hilton either.

patriot said...

Let's all join together both anti and pro and make sure that all employers follow the law by passing legislation that mandates the usage of e-verify and mandate to respond within 30 days to no-match SS letters.

There will be no more need for raids and no more need to investigate and prosecute employers. Everything will be on the up and up. I will be the first one to agree to this solution. Any more takers?

Dee said...

I have explained my views. I am not in 100% agreement with all issues some PRO groups support. As I am sure you are not in 100% agreement with all issues some ANTI groups support.
However, I do believe they have said they are against exploiting employers, especially those, like Agriprocessors, who have blatantly abused their workers, much more than I can say about ANTI sites.
I have taken a firm stand against exploiting employers and I stand by this! I have yet to see ONE ANTI forum go after the employers, especially one like Agriprocessors, perhaps the most heinous.
Pat can play his little games, but the facts are the facts.

patriot said...

And just what "game" am I supposed to be playing? I certainly hope I am not being called a liar because there is no basis for that. I am just as adamant about punishing the employers as I am the illegals. It is part of the solution that I just posted. Every anti forum I have read has stated the same so the truth isn't being told in here. Why don't the pro's join us in this solution? Just who really is the "game player" here?

Brent Lane said...

Dee, you are partially correct in this assertion:

""This is because none on your side nor the Administration nor the businesses themselves seriously cares about sanctioning or swift justice of the employers."

This is the problem: "the Administration and the businesses themselves" are PROs, not ANTIs.

It is inaccurate and unfair to lump them together with those of us who want the Federal laws criminalizing illegal entry into this country, *especially* those who profit from such illegality, strongly and swiftly enforced.

If you have a complaint about a lack of punishment for those who exploit the poor 'undocumented workers', you should direct it towards the PROs (such as NCLR, as mentioned above) who make such enforcement politically unpopular. The vast majority of people who are adversely affected by illegal immigration are just as unhappy about the employers getting away 'scot free' as you are.

"I have yet to see ONE ANTI forum go after the employers, especially one like Agriprocessors, perhaps the most heinous."

Now, you know that's not true - you even posted an article from ProjectUSA right here on this blog:

Dee said...

Brent, (welcome back)
There are more than two sides to the Immigration discussion. PROs, ANTIs and the third leg of the tripod are Business-Administration. (I´ve said this a few times before and this is one area that Liquid and I agree upon.)
I think it is important to acknowledge that Business-Administration are a separate entity. They have different objectives and goals than the ANTI or PRO groups. They prefer to keep our immigration issues status quo. Immigration (and worker exploitation) is but a small component of their overall agenda which is the Global Economy and their own Profit-Gain.

PS: You are right about ProjectUSA. They, like Failed Messiah, are two individual bloggers who have conducted ongoing investigations about Agriprocessors. One leans ANTI and one leans PRO.

OCTAVIO said...

I’m a proud Mexican American, and although I have never worked for AgriProcessors, I know how things were run there, from my friend who did. I used to pick him up from work once in awhile. He never once said that he had any problems on the job, nor were people being treated unfairly. He also didn’t get paid below minimum wage so its really crazy to read all this. Too many lies have been made up in the past month on my friend’s company. They did the right thing and hire a figure like Jim Martin as their compliance officer

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