Sunday, June 8, 2008

Stating the Obvious: Reports indicate Hate Groups on the Rise in America!

Although most of us participating in the Immigration Debates already know this, new reports indicate the growth of Hate Groups in America are on the rise. This corrolates with the increase in Hate Crimes Against Latinos in America.
Growth of hate
In 2007, the
Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights advocacy group, counted 888 hate groups in its latest tally, up from 844 in 2006 and 602 in 2000.
That growth, according to
McBride, has been well pronounced in the heartland. The National Socialist Movement's Oklahoma City chapter opened about four years ago, at the same time the state's Hispanic population began to grow. The vast majority of new recruits point to immigration, said Ken Sponburg, the chapter's founder. “There's a lot of people that are tired of it, but they don't know where to find like-minded people,” Sponburg said. “This issue is going to come down to one thing: And that's going to be race.”
Marilyn Mayo, co-director of the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, expressed deep concern over extremist groups using FAIR's statistics and analysis. But she stopped short of calling FAIR extremists. “We've seen an increase in rhetoric against immigrants. We're seeing a certain kind of environment that's negative against immigrants, and we are seeing a rise of crimes against immigrants,” Mayo said. “The most extreme hate groups are changing their focus from Jews and African-Americans, and they are focusing more on Latinos, in a way that they really haven't before.”
The
FBI cited a 25 percent increase in hate crimes targeting Hispanics in 2007. It reported that 819 people were victimized by anti-Hispanic hate crimes in 2006, compared with 595 in 2003. About 62 percent of ethnicity-targeted crimes were anti-Hispanic in nature, according to the FBI. Experts say hate crimes are historically underreported.
The National Socialist Movement saw a noticeable bump in membership shortly after immigrant groups staged protest across the nation. Before that, the movement got very few phone calls from Oklahoma. Since then, there's been a marked increase. But even more troubling than membership increases in the National Socialist Movement and the
Ku Klux Klan has been the resurgence in “racist skinhead groups,” which are less organized and much more underground and that have a greater tendency for violence, Mayo said.
“That rhetoric about how immigrants are threatening American culture and identity, we're seeing that filter down to the nightly news,”
Mayo said. “It's an environment of fear, and people are reacting.”

89 comments:

Liquidmicro said...

SPLC Linked To …Us?

Here is one for you!! Let's give credit to the SPLC for recognizing Marcus Epstein's “important contribution in the ongoing fight against hatred and intolerance in America.”

GO!! VDare.

Dee said...

VDare is one of the most heinous websites on the web! Who knows how Epstein received that document. I wouldnt even care to guess.

Peter Brimelow, a recent Immigrant from England, has the gall to spew hate and anger on that vile site.

Shameful!

Even wikipedia says vdare is a nativist site:
"VDare Foundation and online journal VDARE.com carries immigration-restrictionist articles and related topics."

Dee said...

The facts are, the numbers of Hate Groups have grown exponentially since 2000. The number of Hate Crimes against Latinos has also grown in like manner during that same period.

This article closes with:
“That rhetoric about how immigrants are threatening American culture and identity, we're seeing that filter down to the nightly news,” Mayo said. “It's an environment of fear, and people are reacting.”

Liquidmicro said...

With growth in population, so comes growth in statistics.

It's nothing more than Mayo's own opinion. And as far as I know, Opinion is far from FACT.

Even wikipedia says vdare is a nativist site:
"VDare Foundation and online journal VDARE.com carries immigration-restrictionist articles and related topics."

What I read is: that VDare hosts articles written by some, and perceived by others, to be restrictionist. This does not make them a nativist site or a hate group.

Dee said...

Surprised you are supporting the heinous VDare, one of the most hatefilled sites on the ANTI side.

VDares association to Tanton, the famed racist, is very well known!

No wonder hate crimes are increasing.

Liquidmicro said...

Whats wrong with "supporting" VDare?

SPLC is now connected to VDare, simply by issuing Epstein a "Certificate of Appreciation" for "the ongoing fight against hatred and intolerance in America.”

You label them simply because you don't agree with them, how utterly appauling, yet you are Liberal.

Answer this one question:
Do you believe in a womans right to choose?

Be careful its a trick question.

patriot said...

There is no increase in violence against "immigrants." Mayo lost all credibility when he used that word. There "may" be an increase in violence against illegal aliens however. Two entirely different groups of people. When people outright lie by using incorrect words, I pay no attention to what they say.

Dee said...

Vdare is so utterly ridiculous.
Today, they had a letter from a Puerto Rican saying they supported secure borders but was tired of all the racial profiling.
Then Guzzardi issues a "reminder" that Puerto Ricans are citizens.

How ludicrous.
He misses the entire point.
All of the animosity about illegal immigration is aimed at all Brown People, therefore all the Racial Profiling and Hate Crimes against Latinos, Native Americans and Brown People.
That is why the Puerto Ricans and those from Miami and ALL 45M Latino Citizens are being ATTACKED, Racial Profiled and Abused!!!!!

Hence the rise in Latino Hate Crimes!!

It is all so shameful!

Liquidmicro said...

The letter was not from "Today" as you state, it was from Friday 6/6.

You don't even get the quoting correct from the writer. However, you do make it a point to place your own "TRIGGER" words to change what is being stated by the writer.

A Puerto Rican Reader Is Tired Of Being Mistaken For An Illegal Alien

From: Yacinia Acevedo (e-mail her)

Re: Allan Wall’s Blog: Hillary and Obama Campaigning in Puerto Rico

We, the millions of people of Puerto Rico living in New York, are U.S. citizens.

But we are discriminated against because of America’s animosity toward illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico.

I agree that illegal immigration is wrong and must stop.

But it is very sad that Puerto Ricans have to suffer bias on a daily basis just because we are Hispanic and because 99 percent of Americans do not know about Puerto Rico or why and how we became citizens.

I am sick of been treated as an illegal immigrant from Mexico when I am not.

Joe Guzzardi comments: Just a reminder for those who may be confused about Puerto Rico and its status. As Allan Wall wrote, Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory and its native-born are U.S. citizens. Of course. Ms. Acevedo’s problem would not exist if successive Administrations had fulfilled their sworn duty to uphold immigration law.


A Puerto Rican Reader Is Tired Of Being Mistaken For An Illegal Alien


Did you even bother to follow the Re: link? Or are you jumping to your own conclusion of what the writer is saying?

Dee said...

Weak Response Liquid.
Today, meaning it was on the Homepage of the Website Today. Whether it was initially posted from day before yesterday or this morning does not make a difference. You continue to rest your argument on semantics. That is such a failure.

Do you like to play dense?

The reader said, "we are discriminated against because of America’s animosity toward illegal aliens, mostly from Mexico."

RACIAL PROFILING

Do you get it?

I know you choose not to!
WE GET IT!!!

So sad you do not even want to understand!

Dee said...

Liquid,
It saddens me that you continue to play in the defensive mode.
You choose not to understand the difficulties we minorities face as long as your side continues to RACIAL PROFILE .. ALL OF US!!!!

We dont like it from Arpaio.
The Puerto Ricans dont like it, the Cubanos dont like it, the Latino American Citizens dont like it when you continue to Scapegoal ALL of us and attack us as if we are illegal immigrants.

Do you get it?
Do you want to TRY to understand?

And, your heinous VDARE website is one of the WORST perpetrators of this injustice!!!

Dee said...

Oh, perhaps I should have waited for their reminder to their members...
hey guys, dont forget, the Brown People you are TARGETTING and ATTACKING just might be Puerto Rican or Cubans or Latino American Citizens so be careful and dont do it anymore.

Pardon us but THE VDARE crowd DID NOT GET THE MEMO!!!

patriot said...

Liquid, you would think that all Hispanic citizens including Puerto Ricans would take a stand against illegal immigration instead of many of them supporting and sympathizing with it and demonizing other Americans who want our immigration laws enforced. Other Americans would look at them a whole lot differently and not confuse them with illegal aliens of Hispanic ethnicity. We Americans of all ethnicities should unite and fight this illegal immigration mess we are in by securing our borders and passing legislation to end the hiring of illegal aliens in our country.

Dee said...

I read each of her words, and I cried.

"But it is very sad that Puerto Ricans have to suffer bias on a daily basis just because we are Hispanic and because 99 percent of Americans do not know about Puerto Rico or why and how we became citizens.

I am sick of been treated as an illegal immigrant from Mexico when I am not."

HOW DARE YOU TRY TO DEFEND THE RACIAL PROFILERS WHO SCAPEGOAT ALL OF US!!

Liquidmicro said...

Semantics is a failure?? It's meant for you to print the actual information instead of your "version" of what you think is being said. I have stated before, 1 word can change the entire meaning of the statement, that's why you insert your "trigger" words.

At no point am I being defensive, in fact, it is you who are becoming defensive and throwing out accusations.

The Letter written leaves quite a bit open to the mind, your interpretation is different than what mine is. Your focus on pick and choose words is what is appalling.

You yell about Arpaio, yet Phoenix Police just did the same thing, yet still your focus is on Arpaio, go figure. We both know why, simply because he is outspoken.

Do I like to play dense?? Maybe I should "dumb things down for you"!!

I have yet to see any scapegoating of Legal Residents or Citizens of Hispanic descent.

A bias could lead one to accept or deny the truth of a claim, not on the basis of the strength of the arguments in support of the claim themselves, but because of the extent of the claim's correspondence with one's own preconceived ideas. This is called confirmation bias. It can change the results of certain results.

The writer does not specify any specific claims at all, like I said it is too open in its argument. They are discriminated against how?
How are "Illegal Immigrants" treated from Mexico?

You have yet to answer any questions that have been posed.

Liquidmicro said...

St. Paul McDonald's sued by applicants who claim they were rejected for being born in U.S.
Men claim bias for being born in U.S.


Maybe this is the type of bias the writer of the letter was talking about.

"Two Hispanic men have sued the owner of a McDonald's in downtown St. Paul, claiming the restaurant's manager told them he wouldn't hire them because they were born in America.

"Oh, I only want to hire Mexicans from Mexico," the lawsuit quotes the unidentified manager as telling one of the job applicants. "When I hire Mexicans from America, they always quit."
....
"This guy said that Mexican-Americans weren't going to work as hard as Mexicans from Mexico," May said.
....
May said he's never handled a case like this, although he's heard of similar cases involving minorities who are U.S. citizens.

"I'm aware of discrimination against American-born minorities. I know it's been an issue," he said. "But it's the first one that I've handled quite like this."

He claimed there was "a well-known problem where some employers discriminate against native-born minorities."

Why?

"You'd have to ask them," he said of the employers. "In this instance, there were comments made to one of my clients that 'you don't work as hard.' "

ultima said...

Perhaps everyone should focus on the validity of FAIR's data rather than focusing on the messenger.

I suspect the bar chart progression could be quickly turned around if Hispanic would get with the program and help us preserve this country from illegal immigration and unwanted and unneeded excessive legal immigration. Why is it so hard for them to see the handwriting on the wall, if not for them then for their children as the poverty, joblessness, disease, despair,crime and corruption is replicated here in this country as their numbers increase faster than they can be absorbed and become habituated to the American way and the values of Western civilization.

And this is not to say, "white culture". It is the unique culture of America developed and sustained over two hundred years that still remains the envy of the world as evidenced by all those who wish to come here. Too bad they can learn and then return home to fix their own countries on the American model.

ultima said...

"VDares association to Tanton, the famed racist, is very well known!"

Where can we read Tanton's "racist" tracts?

Hran said...

Dee,

"Peter Brimelow, a recent Immigrant from England,"

There is a difference between immigrants from England and those from Mexico and other non-white countries. We should encourage the former and forbid the latter.

"... has the gall to spew hate and anger on that vile site."

Show me the "hate and anger" on VDARE! Anyone who does not fully accept the utter annihilation of ethnic Americans is full of "hate" in your view.

patriot said...

There are areas and entire states where Whites are the minority now. California is one of them. I believe this is also true of Texas or at least parts of Texas and other southern states also. Kind of hard for a "brown" to claim victim minority status in those places.

Omphale said...

Dee --

From the FBI report regarding hate crimes:

"The FBI cited a 25 percent increase in hate crimes targeting Hispanics in 2007. It reported that 819 people were victimized by anti-Hispanic hate crimes in 2006, compared with 595 in 2003."

My two cents --

Could it be that the FBI reported an increase in hate crimes against Hispanics because the Hispanic share of the population has grown an average of 3% per year? [see this U.S. Census Bureau report]. If there are more people (Hispanics) here every year (average growth of 3% per year), then naturally the percentage of hate crimes would increase proportionally.

Also, I wonder how many of these hate crimes are gang-related in nature: Los Angeles has seen a spate of brown-on-black crime related to gang turf and drug wars. These have been chronicled in the L.A. Times; a Google search can pull up several cases of attacks and drive-by shootings. This editorial by a Latina law professor explores the conflict: Roots of Latino/black anger [By Tanya K. Hernandez, Los Angeles Times, Jan. 7, 2007].

My point is that if these statistics are to be believed, the blame for the violence lies not with the average (white or Asian) American, but rather it is the result of black-Latino violence; and as the Hispanic/Latino presence in urban areas grows (through immigration and natural increase), they will bump up against blacks, who were once the U.S.'s largest minority group (and who resent their displacement by Latinos).

Patriot brought up California's changing demographics: as of 2006, non-Hispanic whites were 43.1% of the California population; persons of Hispanic or Latino origin: 35.9% (
see here for details).

I don't think that you can blame racial profiling for hate crimes against Latinos, at least in California: as of 2008, Latino police officers are now LAPD's majority (reported on the website Hispanic Trending).

patriot said...

omphale, you are correct on all accounts. I know I have read those very same things on the internet. If the population increases within a certain racial/ethnic group that would naturally make the stats go up for many things about that particular group.

Increased gang violence is also on the rise in this country.

Liquidmicro said...

ultima said...

Perhaps everyone should focus on the validity of FAIR's data rather than focusing on the messenger.


Thats just it, its easier for the other side to assassinate the character instead of arguing the points. Its the same with their use of trigger words to change the entire meaning of the point, more dramatic.

Dee said...

Ulty,

John Tanton, wikipedia:

"Tanton raised concerns about the "educability" of Hispanics. In 1988, the media published this Tanton memo, which caused a number of former supporters of U.S. English to cut ties with the organization, including Walter Cronkite and eventually its director Linda Chavez, who went on to become an analyst with the Center for Equal Opportunity. John Tanton would also resign from U.S. English over the controversy."

Dee said...

Hran,

I guess your own statement says what your agenda is.

Hran said...
Dee,
"Peter Brimelow, a recent Immigrant from England,"
There is a difference between immigrants from England and those from Mexico and other non-white countries. We should encourage the former and forbid the latter.

Dee said...

Omphale,
Hate crimes increased by 25% since last year, not 3%.

Additionally, read the facts from the FBI site:
"Crimes of hatred and prejudice—from lynchings to cross burnings to vandalism of synagogues—are a sad fact of American history, but the term "hate crime" did not enter the nation's vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime. The FBI began investigating what we now call hate crimes as far back as the early 1920s, when we opened our first Ku Klux Klan case. Today, we remain dedicated to working with state and local authorities to prevent these crimes and to bring to justice those who commit them."

These were NOT gang related crimes, rather HATE crimes due to ethnicity.

I will post specifics on the crimes.

Liquidmicro said...

educability - A term sometimes used in the sociology of education in an attempt to avoid begging the vexed nature versus nurture controversy surrounding intelligence. It is intended simply to refer to observed variations, among school pupils, in their capacity to accomplish teacher-imposed intellectual tasks.


Nothing "racist" about that, in fact it could be argued successfully simply by looking at the drop out rate of Hispanics in school.

Dee said...

The Offenders-Perpetrators of Race Crimes by Race in 2006 (FBI)

By Race
An analysis of available race data for the 7,330 known hate crime offenders revealed that:

58.6 percent were white.
20.6 percent were black.
5.7 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (multiple races, group).
1.1 percent were Asian/Pacific Islander.
1.0 percent of known offenders were American Indian/Alaskan Native.
12.9 percent were unknown.

Dee said...

More on Tanton:
Today, Tanton stands in the center of a web of anti-immigrant and official English groups. As the founder and publisher of Social Contract Press, Tanton has published books that have helped shaped a nationalist ideology focused on the threat of immigrants to the white, English-speaking population. Social Contract books also stoke fears about immigrants taking over the United States, with research that highlights the rapid rise of Spanish-speaking residents and related socioeconomic problems, while ignoring research that points to the positive contributions of immigrants.

Liquidmicro said...

"while ignoring research that points to the positive contributions of immigrants."

Kind of like how you "ignore" research that points to the negative contributions and effects of "Illegal Immigration".

Liquidmicro said...

More on educability:

From the HB boards no less, you go Rios!!


Lou Dobbs, Orielly and every other hate-mongeror are handed plenty of amunition to complain about Mexicans and Hispanics solely by our society's careless approach to our 50% dropout rate. We continuely allow our kids to fail simply by not promoting success. At some point we, Hispanics, have to fes up to this failure and ultimatly act and do something about it. We can point fingers and gripe till we're blue in the face but part of gaining respect in this culture is taking responsibility for our own. It's time to stop whining and start doing.

How about Prometeo's excellent answer:
The history of our immigration had had more to do with the needs of the United States than the reality and wants of our culture. If we go back to the “Brazero” program(the name should tell us immediately what we are talking about) we can observe that the Mexican immigration consisted of people that had suffered the effects of a prolonged revolution in their home country and therefore, were not exposed to the normal education.


Know the past reasoning for the argument Tanton describes Dee, maybe then you can "truly" understand the meaning. Argue the points, quit with the character assassinations.

patriot said...

Two things, Liquid. When Tanton questioned the "educadability" of Hispanics, he was referring to their high drop out rates from school. He wasn't implying that they are incapable of any intelligence, just that they showed a disinterest in education.

Second, while the word "immigrants" is being used in here, what he was actually referring to is uncontrolled growth of illegal aliens from one ethnic group. It is only common sense that if this allowed to continue along with their high birth rates that this will occur in the future. As I have stated before, no nation wants to lose it's traditional culture and society to mass illegal immigration in this manner.

Liquidmicro said...

The members on HB seem to realize, like us Pat, that what Tanton was describing is their own lack of. Drop out rates are the point, they do it to themselves, yet they blame the schools for being unable to teach them, like they have some sort of special needs simply by being "Hispanic". I see it as its their choices, they choose to drop out, they choose to have high birth rates among their young, they choose to.... so many things, yet they blame society and want equal treatment. Ultima spelled it out in one of his posts quite well.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I dont have to assissinate Tanton´s character. He did a good job of this completely on his own. That is why Linda Chavez and Walter Cronkite left his little racist side!

Dee said...

Liquid,
I think you are fogetting to take your Alzheimer meds.
You are totally missing Joel´s point. Let me explain it to you since you obviously did not get it.

Since the Immigration Act of 1924, the Latin borders have been open. The Govts established Bracero Programs to bring in trainloads of people from the South to harvest the crops and perform manual labor at low costs. The Anglos loved our work ethic and docile attitude. They kept us working, uneducated and in servitude and were happy to do so.
Since the Civil Rights Act and the Chicano Movement of the 1960´s, all of the old Jim Crow Laws were overturned. We can ride in the front of the bus. Eat in the same restaurants. Use the same Parks and Facilities.
However, Latinos and Blacks still encounter racial setbacks. They are hard to overcome. However, Joel was saying we have to be strong and resilient. We need to be strong, mentor our children and all Latino children and encourage them to finish their education and obtain good careers.

Dont misinterpret what he was saying. HE was NOT saying we are NOT educatable, like the RACIST Tanton did. He was just saying we need to help and encourage to utilize the talents God gave to All of his children and not allow anyone to put us down. Afterall WE ARE ALL EQUAL!!

Dee said...

Liquid,

Here

Take a double dose.

You have been missing many points lately and frankly, I am getting embarrassed for you.

Maybe these will help!

Dee said...

Pat,
You are wrong.
Tanton was referencing Hispanics in his racist rants.

Second, he was one of the 1st proponents of zero immigration growth. He was Becks mentor.

Read up on him!

patriot said...

http://thesocialcontract.com/answering_our_critics/splc_letter_tanton.html

Dee said...

Bad url Pat.

Heres one that works.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/answering_our_critics/splc_letter_tanton.html

Tanton himself was asked questions and refused to answer them. Very telling!

Dee said...

I loved her questions and Tanton, the racist, lacked the courage to answer any of them.

questions asked:
How many anti-immigration organizations have you been involved in over the years and for how long?

What is your current role at FAIR?

What is your current role at US, Inc.? What is US, Inc." Is Roy Beck an employee of US, Inc.?

How many people would you say are members of NumbersUSA and ProEnglish: What does it take to be a member in terms of money? What is the readership of The Social Contract? (Since they are all part of US, Inc., I figure you are the one to ask about this.)

What is the relationship between NumbersUSA, The Social Contract Press, ProEnglish, Americans for Better Immigration, etc., and US, Inc.?

What are the major foundations/individuals that fund US, Inc.? Your 2000 tax return shows contributions from individuals/foundations in the amounts of $1,300,00 and $437,500 for example – would you be willing to comment on where this money comes from? Also, I understand that one foundation has come forward to fund NuumbersUSA's newly rented building on 6th Ave. in DC – can you tell me who or what that is?

Which anti-immigration organizations have you, or has US, Inc., provided funding for? I know that US, Inc., has given money in recent years to Voice of Citizens Together, California Coalition for Immigration Reform, ProjectUSA, FAIR, Americans for Better Immigration. Are there others funded by your organization?

How do you feel about having as your editor Dr. Wayne Lutton, a man who serves as Editorial Advisor to the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens? (Just for your information, a recent posting on the Council's web site refers to Blacks and Homosexuals as "retrograde species.") Do you have any concerns about this organization?

Do you have any concerns about publishing articles in The Social Contract penned by people such as Dr. Virginia Abernethy, and Michael Masters of the Council of Conservative Citizens of James Lubinskas of American Renaissance
(FYI: Glenn Spencer just spoke to American Renaissance, an organization that is racist and focuses on eugenics). I guess what I am trying to get at is what are your views of these organizations?


What do you think of The Camp of the Saints? Many have said it is racist, which I assume you do not agree with, so I thought I should ask your opinion. Is it true that you were instrumental in bringing the book to American readers or is the story about Cordelia May Scaife correct in that regard?

Do you have any concerns about the anti-Hispanic comments that have been made over the years by Glenn Spencer and Barbara Coe? Both have referred to Mexicans as savages and other such unsavory terms – yet US, Inc. funds them.

Are these statements from your 1986 memo on FAIR still true of that organization and of the anti-immigration movement as such:

"Our financial growth has heavily based on a small number of major donors, but have now leveled off. We have found few new donors … ."

"We have spent some time, money and effort trying to build a membership for purposes of political validity and power, but this has not been a major emphasis."

There may be some problems with your tax forms, but since I don't know all of your funding sources I may be wrong about these discrepancies, so I feel I should ask you about this. It appears that several large contributions are not listed on your form 990 as required by law including: $25,000 from Swensrud, $25,000 from Scaife, and $15,000 from McConnell. Could you comment on this discrepancy?

What is the relationship between the Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR? In your 1986 memo, you suggest as part D6 that the anti-immigration movement must "continue to build the intellectual basis for immigration law reform." Is that what CIS was for? Mark Krikorian of CIS told me that his organization has nothing to do with FAIR and never did – is this true?

Are you involved in the campaign to get Zuckerman elected to the Sierra Club board? If so, how?

What is your view of Catholicism and immigration? In your 1986 memo, you posed the question about whether immigrants would bring with them a Mexican or European Catholicism – the latter being more casual. What does this mean?

Why did Linda Chavez, Walter Cronkite, and Frm. Senator Alan Simpson resign from FAIR?

What do you think of our current immigration – especially in regards to the countries of origin of most immigrants, legal and illegal? It would be nice to have an explicit statement of our views on current immigration policy and how they relate to racial issues, if at all.

Liquidmicro said...

Do I have to "DUMB" things down for you again??

You completely missed the point, you go back to a point in time not even relevant to today. Joel was talking about today, Prometeo brought up the "Brazero" program (maybe his lack of correct spelling should be pointed out and brought into this discussion too)to show exactly what Tanton had talked about, the lack of education on the behalf of the "Bracero's", which were invited "legally" to work here I might ad, the pre-cursor to our visa system. These people had very little, if any, education.

You always try to spin everything to a positive light, its a nice gesture, however does not truthfully nor accurately conceive the point.

Then you try to degrade me with your pictures of pills and claims of me having Alzheimers...utterly abusive on your behalf. I thought, according to your testimony in another topic, you were to quit with this childish name calling. Or was it just pointed to between you and Patriot? I thought better of you, until now.

And before you open your mouth Anon1 in defense of Dee, you better go back and re-read this discussion to see when and where Dee first degraded my intelligence. 6/8/2008 @7:36 PM

Dee said...

Great Question about Tantons affiliates. No Answer by racist Tanton

Do you have any concerns about the anti-Hispanic comments that have been made over the years by Glenn Spencer and Barbara Coe? Both have referred to Mexicans as savages and other such unsavory terms – yet US, Inc. funds them.

Dee said...

I wish Tanton would have had the courage to answer this one.

Why did Linda Chavez, Walter Cronkite, and Frm. Senator Alan Simpson resign from FAIR?

(it was in response to his rant about Hispanics are NOT Educatable!)

Dee said...

Liquid, My ISTJ friend, I was giving you a gentle ribbing. I thought you could take a little joke.

You are not part of the Latino history so I forgive you for not knowing about things like the Bracero Programs and Jim Crow Laws in place at the time. I had the privelege of sitting at the knee of my father as he shared many of these events with us.

As I have shared, my father´s grandfather was the recipient of a land grant in SE Texas. He lost much of his wealth and the land during the depression. My grandfather pulled my father out of school and they all became migrant workers. My father was a math prodigy. But all of the childish dreams of school were behind him as they slaved 12 - 15 hours a day in the fields. He faced the stings of racism as he and all other Latinos, termed "Mexicans" by the wealthy land owners. They were subject to the Jim Crow laws. They were not allowed to use the same restrooms or drink from the same waterfountains. It was like this through the 60´s. I remember when I stayed with my sister in California as a teenager that they had just changed the seating sections so now the "Mexicans" could in fact sit with the Anglos. Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerte were still leading the grape boycott.

We were always smart and educatable Liquid. Tanton was wrong then and he is wrong now!
We are ALL God´s Children! WE are ALL created Equal!!!

Various circumstances have led to some believing Latinos-Mexicans are inferior, or not educatable as Tanton says. But they are wrong.

Texas is a prosperous state. It is a majority minority state. We have always been here Liquid. We are the ones who made our state so prosperous. Don´t worry. We will keep it that way.

patriot said...

This and other questions were posed by John Tanton Oct. 1986 to the WITVAN IV attendees:

1. What are the differences in educability between Hispanics (with their 50% dropout rate) and Asiatics (with their excellent school records and long tradition of scholarship)?

Note that he didn't say that Hispanics are uneducatable but that there is a significant difference between the Asian vs the Hispanic performances in our schools. Just a fact!

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=125

Liquidmicro said...

You forget, I was born in Texas, lived there for some time, half my family is of Hispanic Decent.

As usual, you make the discussion about yourself, when in fact it is about Workers from Mexico.

The Mexican migrant worker has been the foundation for the development of the rich American agricultural industry, and the El Paso-Ciudad Juárez border region has played a key role in this historic movement. One of the most significant contributions to the growth of the agricultural economy was the creation of the Bracero Program in which more than 4 million Mexican farm laborers came to work the fields of this nation. The braceros converted the agricultural fields of America into the most productive in the planet.

Mexican peasants were hard-working, highly skilled agricultural laborers. Yet, despite the fact that two million peasants lost their lives in the Mexican Revolution of 1910, "the government failed to provide them the resources needed to improve their lives. By the late thirties, when the crop fields began yielding insufficient harvest and employment became scarce, the peasant was forced to look for other means of survival."

The occurrence of this grave situation coincided with the emergence of a demand in manual labor in the U.S. brought about by World War II. On August 4, 1942, the U.S. and the Mexican government instituted the Bracero program. Thousands of impoverished Mexicans abandoned their rural communities and headed north to work as braceros.

City of Juarez.The majority of the braceros were experienced farm laborers who came from places such as "la Comarca Lagunera," Coahuila, and other important agricultural regions of México. They stopped working their land and growing food for their families "with the illusion that they would be able to earn a vast amount of money on the other side of the border."


Until you can distinguish between what is being discussed without relating it to you, you will always be blind to the points.

If you wish to "rib" me, than do so with a (ribbing) or a ;-} so that we all know, otherwise, your statements from the other day are looked at as blowing smoke.

Dee said...

A bit more on the bracero program.

Later in the 30s, my father was a troquero. He was hired by the State of Michigan to bring workers up from Texas-Mexico. Counter to your beliefs, the workers were not all illegal nor all from Mexico. The majority were unemployed Tejanos. (those from MX did have to sign the Bracero forms however)

Initially they used trucks, but later used the buses and railroads. The TX-MX workers arrived at the source, San Antonio, Houston or Dallas. Then the troqueros picked them up and took them to the farms across the midwest. The crops grew in seasons. So there was a regular, annual route. Then when the mid west was completed, some (not all) went back down south to the cotton plantation.

There was a significant amount of thought put into who the workers would be. The mid west initially recruited immigrants from Germany and Eastern-Southern Europe, but America decided they did not want them because the workers wanted higher pay and land. They decided the work source would be the Latinos because they had a great work ethic, were docile, stayed in family groups and were Christian.

I say this and I feel sad. They were exploited. All they asked was to be allowed to work, to be paid what they thought was a fair wage and to be treated with respect, allowed to care for their families and to pray to God.

Even then they were exploited. My father was a champion of the people and cared and protected them. He also served on the Governors council and served as an interpretor, even into the 1950s.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You site websites.
I site oral histories by those that were there.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Since you tend not to believe anything but the websites you frequent, I will let you know, I have my fathers proclamation from Governor Williams. I have reference from the University of Notre Dame of my fathers participation in an Immigration Council hosted by Governor Williams. I have newspaper articles about my father. I also have historical articles about Hispanic groups formed in Michigan in which my Father was the founder or a leader. Not posting them here but they are public record and if you call me I will point you to them.

Liquidmicro said...

The Bracero program started in August 1942, yet here you are talking about the 1930's.

Dee said:
"You are not part of the Latino history so I forgive you for not knowing about things like the Bracero Programs and Jim Crow Laws in place at the time."

Obviously neither do you, since you are talking a time prior to the Bracero Program.

Liquidmicro said...

I have no doubt that your father has these documents, the problem is as I stated, you are talking prior to the Bracero program, which didn't come about until 1942, you are stuck in the 1930's. Two totally different times. It's not your fathers strides that are in question, its the time frames that you are referencing which have nothing to do with the discussion.

Dee said...

Liquid,
So you now see how lacking your websites are, right Liquid?

I have shared this timeline many times before.

Maybe this will help you:
"Between 1850 and 1880, 55,000 Mexican workers immigrated to the United States to become field hands in regions that had, until very recently, belonged to Mexico. The institution of Mexican (and Tejano) workers in the United States was well established at this time in commercial agriculture, the mining industry, light industry and the railroad. The working conditions and salaries of the Mexicans were poor.

The presence of Mexican workers in the American labor scene started with the construction of the railroad between Mexico and the U.S. That presence grew between 1880 and 1890. As much as 60 percent of the railway working crews were Mexican. Rodolfo Tuiran, in his paper "Past and Present of the Mexican Immigration to the United States", reports that the initial flood of migrant workers to the United States were mainly skilled miners, work hands from cattle ranches in Mexico, indentured servants fleeing Mexican farms, small independent producers who were forced north by natural disasters or Indian raids and workers affected by the War of Secession.

In the aftermath of the Mexican Revolution in 1910, the Mexican government was unable to improve the lives of its citizens. By the late 1930s, the crop fields in Mexico were harvesting smaller and smaller bounties, and employment became scarce. The Mexican peasant needed to look elsewhere for survival. World War I also stoked the fire of Mexican immigration, since Mexican workers performed well in the industry and service fields, working in trades such as machinists, mechanics, painters and plumbers. These years were ripe with employment opportunities for Mexicans because much of the U.S. labor force was overseas fighting the war. Agencies in Mexico recruited for the railway and agriculture industries in the United States.

Mexican workers’ complaints about the abuse of their labor rights eventually led the Mexican government to action. Led by Venustiano Carranza in 1920, the Mexican government composed a model contract that guaranteed Mexican workers certain rights named in the Mexican Political Constitution. The contract demanded that U.S. ranchers allow workers to bring their families along during the period of the contract. No worker was allowed to leave for the United States without a contract, signed by an immigration official, which stated the rate of pay, work schedule, place of employment and other similar conditions. Thus, this became the first de facto Bracero Program between the two countries.

In 1924, the U.S. Border Patrol was created, an event which would have a significant impact on the lives of Mexican workers. Though the public did not immediately view Mexicans as "illegal aliens," the law now stated that undocumented workers were fugitives. With the advent of the Border Patrol, the definition "illegal alien" is born, and many Mexican citizens north of the border are subject to much suspicion.

The Mexican work force was CRITICAL in developing the economy and prosperity of the United States. The Mexican workers in numerous accounts were regarded as strong and efficient. As well, they were willing to work for low wages, in working conditions that were questionably humane. Another measure of control was imposed on the Mexican immigrant workers during the depression: visas were denied to all Mexicans who failed to prove they had secure employment in the United States. The Mexicans who were deported under this act were warned that if they came back to the United States, they would be considered outlaws.

It seemed whenever the United States found a reason to close the door on Mexican immigration, a historic event would force them to reopen that door. Such was the case when the United States entered World War II. In 1942, the United States was heading to war with the fascist powers of Europe. Labor was siphoned from all areas of United States industry and poured into those which supported the war efforts. Also in that year, the United States signed the Bracero Treaty which reopened the floodgates for legal immigration of Mexican laborers. Between the period of 1942 and 1964, millions of Mexicans were imported into the U.S. as "braceros" under the Bracero Program to work temporarily on contract to United States growers and ranchers."

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am appalled that you do not know the Jim Crow laws were in place until the 1960s.

My Dad, my mom, my brothers and sisters and family had to endure the back of the bus mentality (separate restaurants and facilities) until we teamed with the Blacks, led by the amazing Martin Luther King JR., to enact the Civil Rights Act. Thank God!!!

Otherwise, we minorities would Still be at the back fo the Bus!!

patriot said...

Note that the WITVAN IV attendee's answers to Tanton's questions were not published either.

It was proabably the same scenario. The website did not publish Tanton's responses either, only the questions posed to him.

No one is going to just sit there and not answer questions. Well I have seen it happen in this blog, however. lol.

Liquidmicro said...

Actually I see how you fail to understand the point in time we are discussing. Nobody has questioned the work ethics of the Hispanics, which is what you are pointing to. The topic was the character assassination of Tanton and the "not educateable" rant as interpreted by you. Which Patriot and the SPLC point out as:

What are the differences in educability between Hispanics (with their 50% dropout rate) and Asiatics (with their excellent school records and long tradition of scholarship)?

Note that he didn't say that Hispanics are uneducatable but that there is a significant difference between the Asian vs the Hispanic performances in our schools. Just a fact!


You continue to make the argument about yourself and your experiences which are prior to what is being discussed. You should be looking at what can be done to influence Hispanic children in continuing there education through 12th grade, and beyond if possible, like Rios said. Bill Cosby is saying the same to the Black families, yet few are listening.

Liquidmicro said...

No body brought up the Jim Crow Laws, your tangents are meaningless to the discussion. Argue the points and the time frame!!

Dee said...

Liquid, The non educatable rant by Tanton was interpretted by many as RACIST!
Hence the question:
Why did Linda Chavez, Walter Cronkite, and Frm. Senator Alan Simpson resign from FAIR?

patriot said...

Linda Chavez has revealed her agenda in her own words here. This is perhaps the reason that she is no longer affiliated with Tanton. She wanted open borders and Tanton did not. There was never any intent to "seal the border" as she erroneously implies here but rather to regulate legal immigration and deter illegal immigation. Being Hispanic she apparently didn't like that.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95001496

patriot said...

Repeating yet again:

This and other questions were posed by John Tanton Oct. 1986 to the WITAN IV attendees:

1. What are the differences in educability between Hispanics (with their 50% dropout rate) and Asiatics (with their excellent school records and long tradition of scholarship)?

Note that he didn't say that Hispanics are uneducatable but that there is a significant difference between the Asian vs the Hispanic performances in our schools. Just a fact!

Omphale said...

Hello Dee --

Thanks for replying to my earlier post.

Regarding this current blog post (Stating the Obvious: Reports indicate Hate Groups on the Rise in America!):

What is the source for the bar chart on the first page? The source isn't cited. Or did you create it yourself? I assume that the top one ("Hate Groups") uses data from the Southern Poverty Law Center 2007 report mentioned in the post. The NewsOK.com report doesn't give a link to the SPLC report, so I'll give it here.

What is notable about the SPLC report is its overwhelming concentration on skinhead groups and neo-Nazi groups; groups that I haven't really encountered in my day-to-day life. I've lived in small majority-white towns as well as in large cities, and to date I haven't met any neo-Nazis or skinheads.

Anyway, major kudos to the SPLC for including the Nation of Yahweh and the new Black Panther Party in its list of hate groups. I wouldn't have thought possible, seeing as how leftists believe that blacks can't really be racists. So their inclusion of these groups is shocking and happily surprising.

However, the SPLC shows its true colors in its willingness to label FAIR and the Michigan State University chapter of Young Americans for Freedom as 'hate groups'. Responsible immigration-restriction groups are not hate groups. The SPLC exercises hyperbole by extending the hate group designation to FAIR, the YAF and VDare, and thereby dilutes its own message. By smearing these groups with the label that is legitimately deserved for the neo-Nazis and the Nation of Yahweh, the SPLC looks foolish and adds a "sky is falling" atmosphere to their agenda. What with all the recent racial hoopla surrounding Hillary's campaign, why don't they label her a hate group? How about adding the entire state of Kentucky? With the SPLC, the volume always goes to 11, doesn't it?

Let me give another example of hyperbole, in a different context: back in the day (circa 1990), I was watching a TV news broadcast when George W. Bush (the elder; not W.) appeared and called Saddam Hussein "worse than Hitler"; this was before Desert Storm. Now, Saddam was a scoundrel and tyrant, but he was hardly "worse than Hitler". It was a stupid thing for Bush to say, but he said it because he wanted support for liberating Kuwait. Invoking Hitler is the lazy man's debate tactic: it shuts down debate because Hitler's evil looms the largest in our consciousness. When Bush said that, using such poor judgment, it confirmed for me what I always suspected: that he was a idiot.

Dee said...

Sorry Liquid. You just choose NOT to get it.
You ask:
what can be done to influence Hispanic children in continuing there education through 12th grade.

And I responded here and on HB.
We mentor our children. Each of us ensure they complete their education. Each of us ensure they secure a career.
After all, WE ARE ALL EQUAL and this is what ALL Parents should do.

Dee said...

Omphale,
I provided the source on my original post. NewsOK.com and I provided the hyperlink in the original post.

Dee said...

I also agree that FAIR (started by Tanton) and the YAFers at MSU are hate groups.

I grew up in MI and my niece and brother work for MSU. I am extremely familiar with the YAFers at MSU. I have argued with many of their worst on YouTube. They are horrible!!

Liquidmicro said...

My exact quote was this:
You should be looking at what can be done to influence Hispanic children in continuing there education through 12th grade, and beyond if possible, like Rios said. Bill Cosby is saying the same to the Black families, yet few are listening.

Not what you say I ask:
Sorry Liquid. You just choose NOT to get it.
You ask:
what can be done to influence Hispanic children in continuing there education through 12th grade.


I posed no question, nice try though, please play again, insert more credits.

Liquidmicro said...

your posts on HB on the topic go unanswered, because they were way beyond a tangent, although Chuey07 gets it quite well:

JRios, you had me in agreement 100% up until you shift the blame to the politicians.

The day I leave it up to a politician or political party to control mine or my children's future and destiny is the day I hand in my resignation on life. It is not the government's job or responsibility to ensure my success in life. It is MINE.

My children's academic success doesn't have a single thing to do with either the state, federal or local govts. It has to do with mom and dad being there to kick little Chuey07, Jr. and his siblings in the seat of their pants if they don’t get straight A's.

Education is absolutely crucial to success in life. Agree? Education begins in the home. Education must have the support and foundation at home, where the values are instilled and re-enforced. Therefore the home is crucial to the success of our children.

God help us if some 3rd rate political hack (as most are) ever becomes an integral factor to our children's success. I cringe and shudder at the thought.

I want the politicians out of my face and according to you you want them in our face or in our lives. No thanks. I like it better when they're out of the loop. You had it right the first time. Personal responsibility is key.


Sorry, YOU just DON'T GET IT!!

Dee said...

You missed it again. What did I say about supporting our children, mentoring and being resilient.

You choose to read what you want to read.

We are all equal. Our children were born with the same God given rights yours were. All children of all colors are born with the same gifts.

All parents need to support and challenge their children to be the best they can be.

Chuey said it. I said it.

Somewhere deep inside your soul you know this is true.

You just want me to say Hispanics are not educatable and are stupider than you and yours. Not going to say it because its not true. I am also NOT going to say that we as parents dont try as much as you because I know we do.

What I will say is all parents should support their children and challenge them to be the best they can be.

I would match mine to yours or any one here any day of the week!

You just dont get it!!

Dee said...

The root cause of your not getting it is because you fail to acknowledge there is racism in America against Blacks and Latinos.

It is as plain as the nose on your face. We all know it is there.

What is important is for we minorities not to let racism stop us from achieving all we can achieve. WE must stand strong and be resilient! My father taught us this and I taught the same to my children.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said:
"The root cause of your not getting it is because you fail to acknowledge there is racism in America against Blacks and Latinos."

Are you then saying children of Blacks and Hispanics need special attention in school because they are being taught White education? What racism exists in school? If Hispanic and Black children are American Citizens, are they then not going to achieve in school, if they apply themselves, as any other student? What is the reasoning behind the drop out rates being so high? Only racism against Blacks and Hispanics? What about the Asians?

This can't be your argument, could it?

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said:
"You just want me to say Hispanics are not educatable and are stupider than you and yours. Not going to say it because its not true. I am also NOT going to say that we as parents dont try as much as you because I know we do."

If this is what you think, obviously you have not been following along. You tend to double talk.

Example:
We are all equal. Our children were born with the same God given rights yours were. All children of all colors are born with the same gifts.

All parents need to support and challenge their children to be the best they can be.

Chuey said it. I said it.

Then you go and say this:
The root cause of your not getting it is because you fail to acknowledge there is racism in America against Blacks and Latinos.


So which is it?

Dee said...

Again, you are missing my point Liquid. No one is saying racism is an excuse. What I said is, it is a reality.

Beyond this reality, it is up to each parent to instill the work and study ethic into their children. Mentor them to complete their education and obtain a good career.

My father always taught us that you will get knocked down hundreds of times in your life. You are measured by your ability to get up afterwards. Always get up. Never take a handout. Work hard. Do a good job.

Sometimes I think the school of hard knocks is a good thing. I have seen so many people in my career who had things handed to the throughout their lives and careers, then when one thing went wrong, they lost it. They could not get up. Very sad.

Dee said...

Poverty and Racism go hand in hand. Many Blacks and Latinos live in the inner cities. The schools in the inner cities are usually not well funded. The teaching staff is not the best. The student to teacher ratio is xx to 1. It is difficult for the student to learn and rarely do they receive the same motivational support as in the suburbs.

I moved my kids out to the suburbs. My youngest had a reading disability and I did not like the support he was NOT provided.
Any time I made a company move, I looked for the neighborhoods with the highest school ratings and my sons issues were quickly resolved.

The schools are like night and day, from innercity to wealthy suburb. One particular area in Missouri had the highest ratings in the state. The schools took a special interest in their children, particularly in the sports programs. The student to teacher ratio was x to 1. The after school extra curricular activities were very attentive and hands-on with teacher and aid volunteers. Yet, inner city KC had the worst schools in the state, the lowest academic scores, etc.

Dee said...

But I agree it takes more than good schools, it takes an attentive parent. My sons knew they had to complete their education and they had to find and achieve their careers. There was no sitting at home for them.

anon 1 said...

"And before you open your mouth Anon1 in defense of Dee, you better go back and re-read this discussion to see when and where Dee first degraded my intelligence."

Why're you pickin' on me? I would NEVER question YOUR intelligence.
::evil grin::

Dee said...

Anon1,
Thats ok. He is just a little tiffed becuz I kidded him about his Alzeimer meds. (he always says things like "dumb things down" to me and he could not take a little rubbing about AZ meds. LOL)

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said:
"Poverty and Racism go hand in hand."

You got to be kidding me. Talk about the victim strategy. What happened to we are all equal, we all have the same opportunities? Bill Cosby explains it quite well, do some research.

I have no doubt that you wouldn't question my intelligence, you couldn't keep up.

Liquidmicro said...

I'm not tiffed. I was going by what you had said to Pat in the other topic. I was not aware you were ribbing as we were discussing points, for which I "ribbed" back then with what I stated.

I am "ribbing" you Anon1! above.

Liquidmicro said...

Seems Chuey has it very "Right" over @ HB doesn't it Dee?? Your claim of "Racism" in our schools is desperate on your part. Rios is still an "Idiot"!! LMAO

Liquidmicro said...

Sorry, but I cant say the same for you on this one JRios. Lo siento.

You can't legislate parenthood. Unless of course you want a draconian system in place a la Albania. An education is NOT a right JRios, but rather a privilege. I think you mean that the opportunity of an education is a right (which I agree). There is a difference. Now what the individual does with it is out of the hands of the state (the govt). If someone has no interest in taking advantage of the opportunity for an education (as is the case with ohhhhhh sooooo many) WHY then should the govt or you and I or anyone else have to step in?

It appears that you want to legislate parenthood. Are you now looking to legislate ambition, desire, and career success? This is a slippery slope that you are creating here. Take my word for it. The govt is NOT the answer to our problems. The day they are, is the day nos chingamos nosotros.

Now if "white people are addressing the problems" more effectively then maybe we should tear a page out of their handbook. The Asians are sure the hell doing a pretty good job of educating their kids. Almost half of the top 100 colleges and universities in the nation have a strong Asian contingency; and most of them are first generation Americans too. They had the same access to the same education that most Latinos have.

Understand that the government has never been an integral part of the American educational experience other than to provide funds for the school districts, and funds I believe is a relatively miniscule part of the problem. Asian kids in highly Asian populated Garden Grove and Westminister California (where there are also Latinos and whites) have succeeded and many are in our top colleges & universities. No parental or personal ambition legislation required there.

As for the great depression, we can thank FDR for creating a welfare state. No thank you, please. Let the hobos work for a living.

I have no idea what you mean that our "Hispanic Culture has been left out of funding"?

I don't want our state or federal govts to legislate parenthood. Nor do I want them to legislate ganas or ambition or desire.

This reminds me of the African American sports announcer who asked why there weren't more African Americans in baseball? And why have the numbers been dropping over the last 30 years? Now are we to assume based on this logic that the govt should intervene and force more black kids to play baseball? If so, then we could then ask why are there not more Chicanos in the N.B.A.? Why are there not more Chicanos or Latinos in the N.H.L.? Should the govt step in and legislate our desire and career ambitions for professional sports?

If our culture does not embrace or re-enforce in our children the value of an education as other cultures in our country have and with significant success, then maybe it's not the govt where our problems lie.
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Jrios
Moderator

136 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2008 : 6:12:33 PM Show Profile Visit Jrios's Homepage Reply with Quote
In the time it took you to put all of that graciously together we lost about 30 kids.
Disposable Hispanic America
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Chuey07
Forum Scholar

2351 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2008 : 7:05:27 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
No, on the contrary. We kept 100 from being govt-dependent and more importantly instilled the value of an education.

We don't need the nanny-welfare state.

Besides I agree with Tony, talk is cheap, offer up a plan of action. If offering up a plan of action is too time consuming ni modo.

patriot said...

Liquid, I wonder how many of the 50% dropout rate from school among Latinos are children here illegally? Obviously their parents that are here illegally also are uneducated and are of those poor in Mexico that believe in starting work as soon as possible to support the family rather than staying in school. Maybe there is no way of telling as our schools aren't allowed to ask a student's status in this country but I have the feeling that these are the students that hold the largest percentage of the dropout rate.

Dee said...

I liked this response:

"The resolutions are primarily about individual student and parent accountability!
Yes we have innercity issues, POVERTY, RACISM and Political Issues as Obstacles, but they are NOT barriers. (What doesnt kill us does make us stronger)"

And all over there agreed!!

Liquidmicro said...

Thats your own response from over there, its your answer not a response. Nobody over there even commented about your charge of Racism.

Dee said...

They said "In Total Agreement!"

FACTS are FACTS.
For you to refute the FACT that racism against Blacks and Latinos exists in this country is beyond Ludicrous.

But then, thats you.

patriot said...

There is racism against every race, including Whites. Lord knows I have read enough racist remarks towards Whites on the Hispanic Business Forum and a lot of other pro-illegal sites.

Racism has nothing to do with how a student does in school. You either apply yourself accademically with support from your own family or you fail no matter what your race or skin color is.

Liquidmicro said...

Here Dee, blow some more smoke up our butts. At no point are they in agreement with you about Racism being in our schools. Deal with it.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I would say you read blogs through Rose Colored glasses in order to read your own interpretation, however, more likely, they are smoke stained.

FACTS are FACTS.
For you to refute the FACT that racism against Blacks and Latinos exists in this country is beyond Ludicrous.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said:
"FACTS are FACTS.
For you to refute the FACT that racism against Blacks and Latinos exists in this country is beyond Ludicrous."

Yes, but we are talking about it in schools as to why there is such a big drop out rate of Latino's. Don't go trying to change the subject matter.

jeff said...

The black and Hispanic gangs are killing each other because of race. It is both gang related and racially motivated. Also, there has been a rise in anti-white hate crimes committed by blacks. These anti-white crimes are not reported by the mainstream media.

jeff said...

Dee,

As a white man, I have experienced racism against me by blacks in college and the army. My first college roommate was black and he would make fun of my clothes, pinch my skin and remark how it would change color (because Caucasian flesh reacts differently to a pinch or similar pressure). Groups of blacks hanging out in the dorm would see me then taunt or throw footballs at me as hard as they could. When I wasn't familiar with a black custom or a black rapper, etc., someone would say, "where are you from crackerville?" It was a long time ago and I have forgotten about it, but you have to admit, this happens to whites too. What about your sons? How would you like it if these things happened to them?

jeff said...

The black and Hispanic gangs are killing each other because of race. It is both gang related and racially motivated. Also, there has been a rise in anti-white hate crimes committed by blacks. These anti-white crimes are not reported by the mainstream media.

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