Monday, September 29, 2008

Bailout Bill Fails! Stock Market Plunges! McCain & Republicans are Teetering!

The $700B Bailout Plan initially proposed by President Bush failed! This evolved plan was a compromise. It was better than what was originally proposed by the President. This new plan incorporated recommendations provided by both Obama and McCain, including accountability, an oversight committee, payback to taxpayers and no golden parachutes for corporate CEOs.
Obama and McCain helped leaders of Congress in contacting nervous members of Congress, up for re-election, who were worried about supporting this bill, afraid of losing in November. The Dems said this was a Republican proposed bill and they needed 100 Republican votes. The Dems delivered their numbers. The Repubs could not even obtain 80, they were 15 votes short from 80! The reason: these last 15 that promised to vote "yea" were up for re-election and they were afraid that their angry constituents would vote them out of office.
I´ve been checking out some of the ANTI bail-out sites. It´s funny. Most of the people actively opposing the bailout also oppose Immigration Reform, including AM Shock Jocks. One site in particular, alipac.us, has been raging an active war against the bailout. Their leader, William, does not like McCain. I believe half of their group´s motivation was to make McCain look bad. This morning, after McCain spoke out about the success of his postponing his campaign to help support this bailout plan, alipac ratcheted up their campaign against the bill. As in the past, they provided free faxes and encouraged all of their numerous retiree members, to call, call, call and email, email, email to a list of members in Congress to vote against the bailout. They rejoiced at their victory, both against the plan and against McCain. You would think the Repubs in Congress would get it by now. When their emails, phones and faxes are deluged, it is by this same small group of 100 or less.
However, the Repubs in Congress didn´t get it. This calling campaign worked! The plan failed!
If I were to give credit (or blame) to any one group for stopping the Bailout plan from passing, I would give these ANTI groups the credit. They know members of Congress are afraid of losing in November and will not take the chance to vote for this bill. The ANTI groups tipped the scales!
After the bill failed today, the stock market dropped 800 points.
Now, we are told, Congress will not vote on the bill until after the Jewish Holiday on Thursday.
I expect the stock market will continue to drop another 800 - 1000 points a day.
The pundits are saying the Bailout Plan will pass on Thursday or Friday, mostly because the country, afraid of a Depression and the losses in the stockmarket, will pressure the holdouts into voting for the plan.
Who has been hurt the most by the plan failure today?
1. The American People, especially the retirees who have their goose eggs locked into a retirement account invested in the stock market. They cannot remove or trade their stock because they risk taking a huge penalty. They will probably ride this out and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. This will make them angry! Very angry! Many of these types of investors voted Republican in the past.
2. McCain. He gambled and rolled craps. He postponed his campaign. Took credit this morning for the Bill Passing and it Failed! He looks like a fool!
3. The Republican holdouts who voted No today. They are sure to change their votes. They will be categorized as Flip Floppers!
4. Republicans in General. Americans know this is a Republican sponsored Bailout Plan. Now, most Republicans are ashamed to say they are Republican. I have heard several of them are claiming they are GOP Candidates vs Republicans on the ballots in November. (silly)
5. The word CHANGE. Republicans running from this president and this administration are sadly, sadly misusing this word!
I heard my friend Robert Reich say today, regardless of what happens, this is NOT an economic armageddon. He said Americans will find it harder to get credit and borrow money. He said we will be in a Recession. Why? Because consumers will no longer have the piggy bank - the ability to refinance their mortgages. This is what has kept the economy up for the last several years.
Do you know who is NOT a loser? Wall Street!
They will continue to reap the gains! People like Donald Trump and other zillionaires will continue to manipulate the market all to their benefit!
A lesson for Americans to learn? We need to vote in CHANGE! We cannot afford more of the same!
We cannot afford to gamble on Republicans running our country again! We need a change! Not just Republicans changing their names, but changing parties, changing this administration. It´s the Economy, Stupid! And we need to CHANGE from this current Administration and stop voting for Republicans as a whole!

36 comments:

Liquidmicro said...

"Ample “no” votes came from both sides of the aisle, but Democratic leaders managed to persuade more than 60 percent of their members to back the measure, while more than two-thirds of Republicans balked at spending so much taxpayer money just before the Nov. 4 elections."

This means that 40% of the House Democrats voted NO. To point fingers at the Repubs is ignorance. Neither side was happy with this bill, it shows lack of leadership on the congress leaders, Pelosi and Reid.

Reich is right in the way that credit is now harder to obtain, which is good, now those that put this mess up, those who borrowed without having the income for payments will also be held accountable along with those that lent to them.

Reich credits the credit boom for keeping the economy up, i think it was more to the fact that is blew up the economy, overinflated it and now we are seeing it return back to where it should be, re-adjustment. I think it will last the next 4 years before we se it staved off and begin to slowly climb or level off.

patriot said...

That is why I have always said it makes for a much healthier country to have a smaller economy to fit a smaller population in so many ways. Such tunnel vision so many have.

angelin said...

The bailout bill is one of the most critical ever brought before Congress. The Republicans who defied President George W. Bush, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson, and the House leadership did so because their constituents demanded it. Ideologically, they acted to let the free market do its work. If overextended financial institutions which had invested recklessly go bankrupt, so be it.
-----------------------------
Angelinjones
Viral Marketing

alie said...

But it's not just the Wall Street "fat cats" and the financial institutions who are going to fail! It is also everyday Americans. This isn't like the olden days when only "rich" people had stocks. Elderly people have their retirement investments tied up in stocks, people's 401ks will suffer; what happens to a person just a couple years away from retirement? It will be hard for small businesses to operate, students to get student loans to complete their educations! This ISN'T just about Wall Street!

If there were EVER a time to put petty partisanship aside, folks--THIS IS IT!

Dee said...

Wrong Liquid.
The Repubs said they had the votes.IT shows LACK OF LEADERSHIP in the republican party. The Repubs and the Prez were the proposer of this bill.
The Dems did what they said they would do. The Repubs FAILED!!

Dee said...

Alie,
I agree. It is time to put petty partisanship away.
You are also right that the hardest hit immediatley will be Small Businesses, Consumer Credit and especially people with Retirement Accounts. I feel saddest for those with Retirement Accounts that will lose regardless of what they do. These folks worked hard all of their lives and never abused credit. Makes you want to put your valuables and money in your mattress.

However, it is clear to me and many American Voters that now is the time for Change from our current administration and from the Republican party.

Liquidmicro said...

You are so biased and ridiculous Dee. The Dems could have passed this bill without the Repubs. Only 60% of the Dems where for this bill. 12 more votes from Dems and this bill would have passed with no problems. The blame lies solely and squarely on the leadership of the House and both parties.

Dee said...

Welcome Angelin,
I agree with what you said. I hope you come back and discuss with us often!
What do you think will happen if a Bailout Plan is not passed this week or this month?

angelin said...
The bailout bill is one of the most critical ever brought before Congress.

The Arizonian said...

Let bad businesses fail, it's time for a reset.

The Arizonian said...

To put this in perspective, just how much money is $700 Billion:

1. Every cent we spent on the war in Iraq.

2. 5 hurricane Katrinas

3. Could pay off EVERY student loan in the US, with change to spare.

4. 200 Bn more than the military budget for 2009.

5. Roughly TWICE the GDP of Austria.

This is way too much money to give to companies that couldn't do their job.

The Arizonian said...

4. Republicans in General. Americans know this is a Republican sponsored Bailout Plan. Now, most Republicans are ashamed to say they are Republican.

Now you know why I am an independent now?

A bailout goes against the core principals of what the Republican party *use* to stand for......

The Arizonian said...

We cannot afford to gamble on Republicans running our country again! We need a change! Not just Republicans changing their names, but changing parties, changing this administration. It´s the Economy, Stupid! And we need to CHANGE from this current Administration and stop voting for Republicans as a whole!

Actually.....

We can't afford this pseudo-socialist government that has come to replace the one that we had before. This took almost a century to get us to this point. This isn't a party issue, it is a moral one.
We killed the principles set by our forefathers, and we are paying for it. Time to hit that big red reset button.

Liquidmicro said...

I don't understand how in another topic you call this Bush paying off his cronies prior to leaving office, now you are trying to say that this should have passed?

Which is it, Dee??

The Arizonian said...

People like Donald Trump and other zillionaires will continue to manipulate the market all to their benefit!

Interesting....
Did you know that trump donated more money to DEMOCRATS than Republicans?
http://www.campaignmoney.com/biography/donald_trump.asp

Political Campaign Contributions by Donald Trump (1999 to Present) - $310,550
REPUBLICAN:23% DEMOCRAT:53%

Also:
Donald Trump is a Liberal-Leaning Populist: http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am saying the Republicans screwed up the economy and now they are so busy stabbing each other in the back, they are hurting ALL Americans.

Look at the Latest! Gingrich back stabbed Boehner and McCain all in pursuit of his bid for Prez in 2012:

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was working aggressively behind the scenes to defeat the Wall Street rescue plan minutes before he himself released a public statement in support of the package, NBC's Andrea Mitchell reported on Tuesday.

Gingrich was whipping up votes for the opposition, Mitchell said, apparently without the knowledge of the current GOP leader, John Boehner, who was responsible for recruiting enough support from his caucus to help ensure the bill's passage. Ultimately, the GOP was only able to rally roughly a third of its members.

"Newt Gingrich," she said on MSNBC, "I am told reliably by leading Republicans who are close to him, he was whipping against this up until the last minute, when he issued that face-saving statement. Newt Gingrich was telling people in the strongest possible language that this was a terrible deal, not only that it was a terrible deal, it was a disaster, it was the end of democracy as we know, it was socialism -- and then at the last minute [he] comes out with a statement when the vote is already in place."

Indeed, as Mitchell noted, shortly before the bill's failure, Gingrich "reluctantly" came out in favor of its passage: "Therefore, while I am discouraged at the final collapse of the Bush Administration, and frustrated by the Democrats' passion for the taxpayer's money, I would reluctantly and sadly vote for the bailout were I still in office."

The rest of the set of Morning Joe had some interesting takes on the news nugget. Joe Scarborough called Gingrich's backstabbing of John Boehner "undercutting his own."

Mike Barnicle offered his own bit of reportorial insight: "Andrea, I could hug you for saying that, because I was told last night by two or they members of Congress that this was the opening salvo of Newt Gingrich's presidential campaign four years hence."

And Mika Brzezinski summed it up succinctly: "Talk about a crap sandwich," a reference to how Boehner described the bailout bill.

Dee said...

The chicken (Gingrich) comes home to roost. Now he says he didnt do it but it was good it failed anyway! These Republicans should be ASHAMED of what they are doing to America! All in pursuit of Greed!

(The Politico) Former Speaker Newt Gingrich strongly disputed Andrea Mitchell's report on MSNBC this morning that he had privately moved to dissuade House Republicans from voting on yesterday’s bailout bill while publicly endorsing it.

Speaking before the National Press Club today, Gingrich called MSNBC a “stunningly dishonest network.” While critical of many parts of the proposed legislation, Gingrich said he had nevertheless supported its passage and made that clear to Minority Leader John Boehner and others in the House.

Still, Gingrich said that there was good that could come from the bill failing and encouraged what he regarded to be the long-run view of the matter stating, “Do you really want to get over a headache by giving yourself cancer?”

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
I am saying the Republicans screwed up the economy

Is that why the stock market hit an all-time-high of 14,093 in October of 2007?

Greedy and unscrupulous (bankers, broker, consumers) people screwed up the economy.

Liquidmicro said...

Bankruptcy, not bailout, is the right answer


The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.

Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.

In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.

Liquidmicro said...

Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis

Dee said...

Az,
Of course they did! Think of the trillions we owe China. Those stock market numbers did not come cheap!

Dee said...

Gosh Liquid. You are getting desperate. Why arent you talking about Gingrich? He convinced the 15 to reject the bill so McCain will lose the election. He wants to run for Prez in 2012.

The Arizonian said...

Maybe he wants McCain to lose to avoid the mass riots that are sure to ensue if Obama loses?

Alie said...

The partisant Kool aid drinkers would be really amusing if they weren't so pathetic.

Naked truth is that both political parties had a hand in bringing about this situation.

Both parties encouraged (even intimidated) lending institutions into making loans to people who were bad credit risks. There were also middle class folks who overreached and bought more house than they could afford. Groups like ACORN intimidated lending institutions into giving out loans.

Barney Frank was on record as saying that Freddie Mac was doing just fine only a couple of years ago! John McCain actually warned that the taxpayers were going to be in trouble if this credit situation wasn't reigned in. But, BOTH PARTIES let the American people down.

It was greed on all sides: consumers, lenders, Wall Street. And plain old cowardice on the part of politicians on both sides of the isle who did not want to address this issue like so many others they will not address.

The Dems have been in control of the Congress for two years now. What have they done?

I am so darned sick and tired of Kool aid drinking partisans on both sides that I could scream! It's as though they suspend their ability for independent thought and continue down ONE PATH with blinders on.

They'll all be the ruin of this country! *frowny, angry face here* In my humble opinion, of course.

Alie said...

"isle" should read "aisle."

The Arizonian said...

Groups like ACORN intimidated lending institutions into giving out loans.

Oh, the number of positions I could come up with this.......

The Arizonian said...

From ACORN's 'accomplishments' section:
http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=2726

Community Reinvestment

Negotiated landmark agreements with banks in St. Louis, Baton Rouge, Boston, Bridgeport, New York City, Jersey City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Denver, Little Rock, New Orleans, Chicago, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Brooklyn, Des Moines, Dallas and Washington, D.C., making over a billion dollars available for loans in low-income neighborhoods. Blocked the gutting of the federal Community Reinvestment Act. Forced Fannie Mae to establish a precedent-setting program to buy community reinvestment mortgages.

Housing

Created or upgraded homesteading programs that turn over vacant houses to low-income residents in Philadelphia, Detroit, Brooklyn Bridgeport, Chicago, Phoenix, St. Louis, and Little Rock. Won passage of a national homesteading bill. Forced HUD to reform policies and procedures to make it easier for low and moderate-income people to purchase HUD-owned properties.

The Arizonian said...

The ironic thing is, ACORN is criticizing the bail-out, although they *may* have contributed to the need for one anyway:

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=4174&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22350&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2716&cHash=f2cea840fd

The Crisis Continues on Main Street; ACORN Asks "Where's Hope?"


On Oct. 1, ACORN members in more than 30 cities will visit their local offices of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to turn in "applications" for the "HOPE for Homeowners" program that takes effect today – demonstrating that Congress has yet to pass a bill that will provide any real help for homeowners. ACORN members are demanding that Congress provide real leadership in stemming the foreclosure crisis which is adversely affecting financial markets in the United States and all over the world.

The proposed bailout plan currently being debated in Congress does not contain any help for the millions of Americans caught in the foreclosure crisis. Neither does the "HOPE for Homeowners" program – intended to encourage mortgage lenders to renegotiate loans to affordable terms for homeowners, this program is ineffective because lender participation is voluntary and not a single lender has signed up to participate – making it clear that homeowners do not have any more "hope" today than they did yesterday.



“It was strange to see those who had said everything was fine wake up one day last week and decide we were finally in a crisis and something had to be done,” said ACORN President Maude Hurd or local leader. “We’ve known there was a crisis with foreclosures for more than a year now, and nothing Congress has done will make a dent in the crisis we see on Main Street.



“It is imperative that we continue to press for solutions to fix the underlying problem here: Unaffordable mortgages that families cannot afford. We need the Hope for Homeowners program up and running on all cylinders, we need a real commitment from Secretary Paulson to pursue aggressive modifications of the mortgages underlying the assets purchased by Treasury, and the government must decisively use its conservatorship of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to achieve sustainable modifications. Finally, we need bankruptcy reform so that judges can restructure some mortgages on principal residences to affordable terms,” said Hurd.



“As shown by the massive number of homeowners still in urgent need of help, this crisis is far from over and demands leadership commensurate with the enormity of the challenges we face – the kind of leadership we just aren’t seeing in Washington now,” concluded Hurd.



30-09-08 22:52

Alie said...

Very interesting info on ACORN indeed, Arizonian.

Dee said...

Az,
You are WAY off base about ACORN. The Anti Redlining laws they supported were NOT responsible for the Crisis.
As Robert Reich wrote (and as I quoted in my 9-21 blog):
"Apologists will say that Fannie and Freddie exist to make housing loans to low-income Americans, so it was inevitable that the two giants would get caught in the quagmire of the housing burst. But the fact is, Fannie and Freddie -- and the executives who ran them and still run them -- have been out to maximize profits. Period. Just the same as every other mortgage and investment bank. High-risk sub-prime loans offered a higher rate of return, so Fannie and Freddie went into them big time. And because of the implicit government guarantee, Fannie and Freddie could take on even more risks and make even more money.

Dee said...

He continues:
"Along with making lots of money for investors and their executives, Fannie and Freddie corrupted our political process. They blocked any attempt to reign in the risks. Their lobbyists were and are the most sophisticated and among the most ubiquitous in Washington."

Liquidmicro said...

ACORN, as stated by AZ, is showing nothing more then that ACORN may have helped contribute to the problem by encouraging home owners to purchase more house than they could afford.

It's that *may* that AZ put in there that should clue you in Dee, but then we know how your comprehension is. Tunnel vision!!

Dee said...

Liquid,
Re Read my post Liquid.
At least try to become enlightened!
The ANTI Redlining laws did NOT cause the crisis.

GREED is the culprit!!

Liquidmicro said...
ACORN, as stated by AZ, is showing nothing more then that ACORN may have helped contribute to the problem by encouraging home owners to purchase more house than they could afford.

It's that *may* that AZ put in there that should clue you in Dee, but then we know how your comprehension is. Tunnel vision!!

Liquidmicro said...

The only one needing enlightening, Dee, is you. Your DNC talking points have already been proven wrong. As usual you place blame in only one spot and fail to see the overall picture. I think you are myopic and can't see past your own nose.

Liquidmicro said...

ACORN recognized very early the opportunity presented by the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977. As Stanley Kurtz has reported, ACORN proudly touted "affirmative action" lending and pressured banks to make subprime loans. Madeline Talbott, a Chicago ACORN leader, boasted of "dragging banks kicking and screaming" into dubious loans. And, as Sol Stern reported in City Journal, ACORN also found a remunerative niche as an "advisor" to banks seeking regulatory approval. "Thus we have J.P. Morgan & Co., the legatee of the man who once symbolized for many all that was supposedly evil about American capitalism, suddenly donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to ACORN." Is this a great country or what? As conservative community activist Robert Woodson put it, "The same corporations that pay ransom to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton pay ransom to ACORN."

ACORN attracted Barack Obama in his youthful community organizing days. Madeline Talbott hired him to train her staff -- the very people who would later descend on Chicago's banks as CRA shakedown artists. The Democratic nominee later funneled money to the group through the Woods Fund, on whose board he sat, and through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, ditto. Obama was not just sympathetic -- he was an ACORN fellow traveler.

Now you could make the case that before 2008, well-intentioned people were simply unaware of what their agitation on behalf of non-credit-worthy borrowers could lead to. But now? With the whole financial world and possibly the world economy trembling and cracking like a cement building in an earthquake, Democrats continue to try to fund their friends at ACORN? And, unashamed, they then trot out to the TV cameras to declare "the party is over" for Wall Street (Nancy Pelosi)? The party should be over for the Democrats who brought us to this pass. If Obama wins, it means hiring an arsonist to fight a fire.


I find this pretty telling about ACORN and the Dems, don't you??

The Arizonian said...

Dee said...
Az,
You are WAY off base about ACORN. The Anti Redlining laws they supported were NOT responsible for the Crisis.


Excuse me? Can you read past your nose?

From ACORN's OWN 'ACCOMPLISHMENTS' WEBSITE:http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=2726
Forced Fannie Mae to establish a precedent-setting program to buy community reinvestment mortgages.

Forced HUD to reform policies and procedures to make it easier for low and moderate-income people to purchase HUD-owned properties.
I.E. High Risk Individuals.....

This is the equivelant to getting daycare jobs for child molesters, the being 'surprised' when something bad happened.
THERE IS A REASON THESE PEOPLE WERE POOR AND HAD A HARD TIME GETTING LOANS.
The ACORN FORCED THEM TO DO THE LOANS ANYWAY.

The Arizonian said...

I posted this elsewhere, but it seems fitting here as well:

http://kfyi.com/pages/local_news.html?feed=118695&article=4364653

HUD: Five Million Fraudulent Mortgages Held by Illegals

One illegal alien was arrested this year in Tucson after allegedly using a stolen social security number to buy two homes and rack up over $780,000 in bad debt.

Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

It's not known how many of those have contributed to the subprime housing mortgage meltdown, but it has affected every state, including Arizona.

The problem began years ago when banks were forced to give mortgages without confirming social security numbers or borrower identification.(Due to ACORN) As a result, illegal immigrants were able to obtain home mortgages which they could not afford.

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