Latinos are still being harrassed in Patchogue! It appears the previous arrests have not taught Patchogue youths to stop their Beaner Jumping!
It is very, very fortunate an officer was in the vicinity to witness and detain the perpetrators!
NewsDay reports:
In the latest incident police are calling a hate crime, a group of eight youths in Patchogue shouted ethnic slurs at two Hispanic men coming out of a restaurant on East Main Street, then pushed one of them, police said.The incident was quickly broken up when a passing Patchogue Village code enforcement officer in a marked car did a quick U-turn and pulled over, police said.The youths ran down the street as the officer got out."Our code enforcement officer noticed it . He did exactly what he was supposed to do. He calmed the situation down and notified the Suffolk County Police Department," said Patchogue Mayor Paul Pontieri. "It is very alarming that after the incident of two weeks ago there are still people who have not gotten the message."
On Nov. 8, Marcelo Lucero, a 37-year-old Ecuadorean immigrant, was stabbed to death after he and a friend were attacked. Seven Patchogue-Medford High School students have been charged. Police said the suspects admitted they regularly sought out and attacked Hispanic immigrants. Last night, Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy - who had been criticized for not strongly condemning that killing - said through a spokesman, "If the facts are as presented in this complaint, it is my hope that punishment will be as severe as possible, to insure that this type of menacing is stopped once and for all." The eight people being sought, five men and three women, were described as "young adults" by Det. Sgt. Robert Reecks, commanding officer of the Suffolk Police Hate Crimes Unit. Reecks said the attack was considered aggravated harassment as a hate crime. The two victims, who were uninjured, were taken to the Fifth Precinct, where they were interviewed and signed complaints, Reecks said. Reecks is asking anyone who may have seen the incident to call the Hate Crimes Unit at 631-852-6323 or the Crimestopper hotline 800-220-TIPS. Lucero's killing, and reports of other attacks against Hispanics, have set the Latino community on edge, and led to protests by people of all races in Suffolk. The county has also been the target of criticism from people as far away as Ecuador, where a lawyer representing the Ecuador consul-general's office, Gerardo Mejía, said Suffolk was rife with racism. The Rev. Allan B. Ramirez of the Brookville Reformed Church, an immigrant activist, said last night he had heard about the latest incident while visiting Patchogue yesterday, and added that he was appalled by it, but not surprised.
In the latest incident police are calling a hate crime, a group of eight youths in Patchogue shouted ethnic slurs at two Hispanic men coming out of a restaurant on East Main Street, then pushed one of them, police said.The incident was quickly broken up when a passing Patchogue Village code enforcement officer in a marked car did a quick U-turn and pulled over, police said.The youths ran down the street as the officer got out."Our code enforcement officer noticed it . He did exactly what he was supposed to do. He calmed the situation down and notified the Suffolk County Police Department," said Patchogue Mayor Paul Pontieri. "It is very alarming that after the incident of two weeks ago there are still people who have not gotten the message."
On Nov. 8, Marcelo Lucero, a 37-year-old Ecuadorean immigrant, was stabbed to death after he and a friend were attacked. Seven Patchogue-Medford High School students have been charged. Police said the suspects admitted they regularly sought out and attacked Hispanic immigrants. Last night, Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy - who had been criticized for not strongly condemning that killing - said through a spokesman, "If the facts are as presented in this complaint, it is my hope that punishment will be as severe as possible, to insure that this type of menacing is stopped once and for all." The eight people being sought, five men and three women, were described as "young adults" by Det. Sgt. Robert Reecks, commanding officer of the Suffolk Police Hate Crimes Unit. Reecks said the attack was considered aggravated harassment as a hate crime. The two victims, who were uninjured, were taken to the Fifth Precinct, where they were interviewed and signed complaints, Reecks said. Reecks is asking anyone who may have seen the incident to call the Hate Crimes Unit at 631-852-6323 or the Crimestopper hotline 800-220-TIPS. Lucero's killing, and reports of other attacks against Hispanics, have set the Latino community on edge, and led to protests by people of all races in Suffolk. The county has also been the target of criticism from people as far away as Ecuador, where a lawyer representing the Ecuador consul-general's office, Gerardo Mejía, said Suffolk was rife with racism. The Rev. Allan B. Ramirez of the Brookville Reformed Church, an immigrant activist, said last night he had heard about the latest incident while visiting Patchogue yesterday, and added that he was appalled by it, but not surprised.
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132 comments:
Another article:
Accusations Against LI Hate Crime Teens Keep Coming In
Another attack this week against two Hispanic man in the town of Patchogue in Suffolk County has been chalked up to local teens--possibly ones connected to "The CAUCASIAN CREW," the gang arrested in conjunction with the murder of Ecuadorian Marcelo Lucero. Luis Pichu and Carlos Banegas (a friend of Lucero's from Ecuador) were surrounded by a group of teens Tuesday night, some with skinhead haircuts, who yelled that they wanted "TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE." And yet another man has come forward and accused two of the members of the group that was arrested in Lucero's attack and murder as being the assailants when he was allegedly beaten badly while riding home on a bicycle last fall. "These people are still out there - they're STILL HUNTING," Marcelo's brother Joselo Lucero told the Post.
http://gothamist.com/2008/11/28/accusations_against_li_hate_crime_t.php
I agree with the Rev. Alan Ramirez that the leaders of the community also “have blood on their hands.” Many of the leaders in the Village of Patchogue, previous and current Mayors and the Village Trustees created an unlawful police force, which for the most was aimed at violating the right of Latinos. For years they have had code enforcement officers who are pretending to be constables, who had no training in racial profiling and the carrying of firearms like Suffolk County Police. Thanks to a few in the community who have risen up against the Village, some of whom have won lawsuits, the Village of Patchogue in June 2008 gave up their guns and other pretenses that they are constables or police officers. Still, the Village is hiding all the hideous unconstitutional acts that have been committed over the years against residents and Latinos. For 17, they have maintained a fake constabulary and are hiding the real reasons why these fake constables were created in the first place, which is rationally motivated. Even though they lost a 2.5 million dollars suit and have a court order to disband their constabulary, they continue to stop motorist. I am a person working to expose the unlawful racist unconstitutional policies that plague Suffolk County. For many years the Village of Patchogue has gotten away with violating the constitutional rights of Latinos and working class poor, because other regulatory agencies, such as Suffolk County District Attorneys Office and Department of State, have turn a blind eye to these unlawful acts. As a Latina, I am glad that I don't live in the Village of Patchogue, because I have attended some of their Village meetings and herd many officials in the Village of Patchogue take pride in how they have "cleaned up" their Village and how they are working on redevelopment programs so that they can have the "right neighbors." They speak with pride and no remorse over their racist ignorant comments and because of the stereotypes they have about us, they don't even realize that I am a Latino. At meetings they opening admit and gloat that their policies have been to get rid of illegal immigrants, which they feel the federal government is not doing enough about. For the most part the minutes are doctored so that the public will not hear anything objectionable. At other times, they are so blind to their unlawfulness of their statements they simply let the minutes go through. With few exceptions, they feel safe talking to an all "white" audience about their racist policies. These trustees are scary and dangerous people, who attempt to destroy anyone who opposes them. They feel invincible and believe that most of us are too apathetic and powerless to actually do anything about it. They are wrong.
Anonymous Patchogue Latina,
Thank you for posting to my blog and Welcome!
It is obvious many-most of the adults in Patchogue are extremely racist and condone the "Beaner Stomping" that is prevalent in Patchogue.
Please WRITE ME on dee_perezscott@yahoo.com
I would like you to write a guest column to share with us what is happening on the streets of Patchogue.
Also, please name yourself so we can differentiate yourself from the other Anonymous posters. We can discuss when you email me.
Dee
Anonymous said...
I am a person working to expose the unlawful racist unconstitutional policies that plague Suffolk County...As a Latina, I am glad that I don't live in the Village of Patchogue, because I have attended some of their Village meetings and herd many officials in the Village of Patchogue take pride in how they have "cleaned up" their Village and how they are working on redevelopment programs so that they can have the "right neighbors." They speak with pride and no remorse over their racist ignorant comments and because of the stereotypes they have about us, they don't even realize that I am a Latino. At meetings they opening admit and gloat that their policies have been to get rid of illegal immigrants, which they feel the federal government is not doing enough about. For the most part the minutes are doctored so that the public will not hear anything objectionable. At other times, they are so blind to their unlawfulness of their statements they simply let the minutes go through. With few exceptions, they feel safe talking to an all "white" audience about their racist policies. These trustees are scary and dangerous people, who attempt to destroy anyone who opposes them. They feel invincible and believe that most of us are too apathetic and powerless to actually do anything about it. They are wrong.
When you start giving equal time to the number of white kids being harrassed by Hispanics, then I will take your victim, race-baiting stories more seriouosly Dee.
Anon,
You continue to stay in denial. These Latino Race crimes are prevalent and under reported.
To date, I have NEVER seen one crime reported called "Gringo Jumping." Never. You speak of car accidents or other random, accidental or criminal acts, but never HATE CRIMES against anyone simply for the color of their skin other than those against Latinos, Blacks, Asians, Gays or other minorities.
Anonymous said...
When you start giving equal time to the number of white kids being harrassed by Hispanics, then I will take your victim, race-baiting stories more seriouosly Dee.
Dee, all you do is whine, whine, whine. There have been plenty of hate crimes committed by Hispanics against whites. Grow up and stop the race-baiting. You are the one in denial.
The blogger who goes on about the constables and the Village Administration is none other then HENRY TERRY!You give yourself away. Please people do not listen the long ramblings of this man. In my opinion he is some sort of paranoid delusional individual who has an axe to grind about everything imaginable with countless lawsuits against the Village. i saw you at the rally AND the vilgil. wasn't that you handing out cards with your info on them? SHAME ON YOU HENRY TERRY>
For the record, our community has always had a hispanic component to our diverse residency. We have lived in peace and harmony for the 50 plus years I have lived in the village. These creeps came from OUTSIDE our Village to commit this horrendous crimes. Vive le patchogue!!!
AZ,
Here was the first article on your link:
The Hate Crimes You Don’t Hear About
by Russ Kick
Cleveland, Ohio. A white man on a moped accidentally bumped into a truck being driven by a black man. He fell over but was not injured. A crowd of 40 white people pulled the black driver from the truck and brutally beat him. One of them climbed in the truck and ran over the driver, killing him. The crowd cheered.
Jacksonville, Florida. A group of four to six white men agreed that they would brutalize the next black person they saw walking down the street. That person turned out to be a mentally disabled 50-year-old, whom they beat and stomped into unconsciousness. He later died of his injuries.
AZ,
The other articles on the 1st page of your search were:
. black on white
. unknown on disabled
. white on Latino
. some from blogs, one from Vdare (yikes)
I didnt see any latino on white.
AZ
many Jews, islamic, catholic, protestant, agnositic are whites.
(white on white crimes)
arizonian said..
If 20% of race-based hate crime is against white, and 67% of religious-based hate crimes are against Jews..... I'm confused....
(Of the 1,480 reported offenses within single-bias incidents that were motivated by the offender’s religious bias, 67.8 percent were anti-Jewish, 13.0 percent were anti-Islamic, 3.9 percent were anti-Catholic, 2.9 percent were anti-Protestant, and 0.5 percent were anti-Atheism or Agnosticism.)
Anon,
You are the one constantly whining. As I said, to date, I have NEVER seen one crime reported called "Gringo Jumping."
Anonymous said...
Dee, all you do is whine, whine, whine. There have been plenty of hate crimes committed by Hispanics against whites. Grow up and stop the race-baiting. You are the one in denial.
Anon,
You chastise and say you are outing someone yet you cloak yourself with the anonymous lable and SAY you are from Patchogue. Anyone on the anonymous internet can say that. Do not chastise someone without cause.
Name yourself Frank or Nancy. IF you are from Patchogue, provide us some facts about the "Caucausian Crew" that is still going around "Beaner Jumping." Why are many youths in your town going around harassing Brown people? Why do they think it is ok to do so? Violence is NEVER the right answer. Never!!
Anonymous said...
The blogger who goes on about the constables and the Village Administration is none other then
David Nadel was a familiar community activist in Berkeley, California, and owned the popular Ashkenaz dance club that featured eclectic music, such as zydeco, cajun, klezmer and the blues. In 1996, he was murdered in the club by an apparent Mexican illegal alien, Juan Rivera Perez, whom Nadel had earlier ejected for harassing other patrons. Perez was in Ashkenaz as part of an English as a Second Language program graduation party. Police believe Perez escaped to Mexico, which is famously unhelpful in extraditing violent criminals. Despite the outcry from law enforcement, victims and the press, our government does not insist on normal compliance in law enforcement from Mexican authorities.
• In another case of justice denied, the murderer of Phoenix high school student Tanee Natividad merely crossed the border into Mexico to escape law enforcement. A local television station was able to track down the murderer in a bar just a few miles across the border without much effort. Max LaMadrid has no reason to hide because the Mexican government actually helps violent criminals escape American justice. According to Arizona Attorney General Janet Napolitano, action by the Mexican supreme court making it more difficult to extradite criminals has "created an incentive for people to flee into Mexico as a safe harbor." At one time, Mexico would not extradite criminals who might be subject to the death penalty; the Mexican court recently extended this "protection" to any Mexican who might receive a life sentence, thereby giving a free pass to rapists, kidnappers and child molesters. In fact, the investigating reporter found 100 cases of violent criminals from the Phoenix area escaping into Mexico in just the last few years. Meanwhile, the grieving family of 16-year-old Tanee gets no justice — like thousands of others in the southwest.
• At the left is shown Darlene Squires, the distraught mother of a disabled teenager, one of two girls who were raped on October 24, 2002, by three members of a Salvadoran street gang located in Somerville, Massachusetts. Aged 17 and 14, both victims are deaf and one has cerebral palsy. Mrs. Squires believed that the attacks were a retaliation against her family because her husband confronted the young men after they had harassed the Squires son. Later reports indicated the men arrested for the crime were illegal aliens.Law enforcement officials were concerned about increased violence from the MS-13 gang which was "believed to have originated in part with soldiers and their families who left El Salvador." Local residents estimate the gang has more than 100 members in their community. An update a few months after the Squires crime showed that the gang problem in the community has only gotten worse.
I have been watching the movie "Hairspray" this afternoon. The theme of the movie, "Integration!"
Dancing, Music, revelling in the thriving multi cultural society!
There are incidental crimes out there, white on white, on black on color. However, they WILL NOT STOP OUR THRIVING MULTI CULTURAL SOCIETY!
SINCE THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, WE ARE MOVING FORWARD!
WE ARE NO LONGER A WHITE AMERICA, A BLACK AMERICA, A BROWN, YELLOW OR RED AMERICA! WE ARE JUST A MULTI CULTURAL THRIVING AMERICA! ALL COLORS! ALL RACES!
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
ANTIS AND RACIST GROUPS WILL NOT HOLD US BACK!!!!
Ulty,
Your reference to incidental crimes reminds me of:
1. BTK
2. Gacy
3. Dahmer
4. Bundy
Should I blame ALL White Men for their crimes? Should I indict an entire race or ethnicity as YOUR SIDE always does when you indict one person of ethnicty for a traffic accident or a crime they may have committed? Should I BLAME you for Gacy´s Crimes? For BTKs crimes? Don´t YOU see how RIDICULOUS your ARGUMENTS are???
None of the crimes you listed say "Whitey Jumping".
None of them are race crimes.
The "Caucasian Crew" on Long Island is looking for "Mexicans" or "Beaners."
Should I blame YOU for BTK? Gacy? Dahmer? I don´t. There are those "crazies" that are looking to commit a crime against anyone.
However, there is another whole group of people who have been motivated by the the racist extremists like the Skinheads, Nazis, Aryan Nation that are Looking, per description, for Mexicans, for Beaners to Harass and Kill and Mutilate and Harm SIMPLY for being Brown! They are instigated by the ANTI Racist Crowd from NSM and KKK to do this. Just as the dragging in Jasper occurred here in Texas, They are RACE CRIMES!
That is what THIS TOPIC is about!!
Dee said...
AZ,
Here was the first article on your link:
I guess you missed the entire paragraph below that:
Are you surprised that you’ve never heard of these sickening murders based on racial hatred? You didn’t see saturation coverage on the news. You didn’t hear politicians decrying racism. You didn’t see a livid Jesse Jackson on CNN. Why? Because these acts of brutality didn’t happen exactly as I described above. Oh, they happened, all right. The only thing is, the races of the attackers and victims were reversed. That is, a white man was beaten and then crushed by a mob of 40 black people who were furious that a black man bumped into his truck.¹ In Jacksonville, it was a gang of black men who stomped a mentally-disabled man to death solely because he was white.²
Maybe you should take a comprehensive reading class or something. Your bubble has been burst, sorry, please try again.
Dee said...
I have been watching the movie "Hairspray" this afternoon. The theme of the movie, "Integration!"
Dancing, Music, revelling in the thriving multi cultural society!
No wonder you have a myopic Utopian view of life, you believe everything in the movies.
First you say this: "The "Caucasian Crew" on Long Island is looking for "Mexicans" or "Beaners."
Should I blame YOU for BTK? Gacy? Dahmer? I don´t. There are those "crazies" that are looking to commit a crime against anyone."
Then you say this: "They are instigated by the ANTI Racist Crowd from NSM and KKK to do this."
You do exactly what you say you don't do!! No wonder you make no sense, believing life is like the movies, saying one thing and then completely doing the opposite.
Liquid
I'm sorry, I didn't see your posts for November 23 before I left for the Thanksgiving holiday. Please go back to that post on Immigration, Hate Crimes Against Latinos, and Obama’s Steps to Improve Race Relations. I am going to try to answer all of your questions. Here’s a preview:
When did the Mexican army invade? Gee, did I miss something? Oh wait, you mean that little brown seamstress hunched over her sewing machine? Or the humble brown man who picked the crops for your Thanksgiving dinner? Is that the invading army you're so worried about? Yes, the sky is falling...civilization is coming to an end. Watch out for the invasion of the little brown seamstresses! Aaayyyyyy! ;-)
Analisa
These are very brutal crimes, like the Clockwork Orange that you depict. This is racism at its worst.
I congratulate you on this website and the pictures of the brutal murders.
I am placing several link to this wonderful site "Immigration Talk with a Mexican American"
I have a website RACIALITY.COM on Racial Relations. And I want to work to publish these heinous crimes. ( like the Luis Ramirez, Pennsylvania brutal beating and murder in July ).
And I am going to inform on the exploits of the Ku Klux Klan.
This is my site
Raciality.com
And on Youth and Politics :
Milenials.com
Vicente Duque
No, this IS what this country is! It is a majority white country with a culture of its own and has had since its founding.
We are not identified as being multi-cultural. We are multi-racial. Thriving means living. All humans are living/thriving so that remark makes no snese at all.
The definition of an invasion (unarmed in this instance) is a huge number of people trespassing or entering somewhere they are not authorized to do so. It doesn't matter what they look like or what their occupations are. Someone needs to buy a dictionary.
Vicente,
Welcome to my site and thank you for the compliments.
I visited your site as well and congratulations for creating such a comprehensive site so quickly.
I will link to you in my blog favorites and am flattered you will be doing the same for mine.
I think it is important for as many of us as possible to be writing about and discussing these subjects with as many viewers as possible.
Dee
Anon,
Perhaps this will help you.
Multiculturalism:
The term multiculturalism generally refers to an applied ideology of racial, cultural and ethnic diversity within the demographics of a specified place, usually at the scale of an organization such as a school, business, neighbourhood, city or nation.
Some countries have official, or de jure policies of multiculturalism aimed at recognizing, celebrating and maintaining the different cultures or cultural identities within that society to promote social cohesion. In this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating.
With so many ethnicities and races in our country, HATE Crimes must be stopped and never tolerated.
That is why it is important for the perpetrators to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
Dee says:
"Some countries have official, or de jure policies of multiculturalism aimed at recognizing, celebrating and maintaining the different cultures or cultural identities within that society to promote social cohesion. In this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating."
So the truth comes out from you, you want cultural equality in the USA. This country was founded on 'white culture' and remained so until the 1960's. Other 'immigrants' have added to our culture making it distinctive to just the USA, but that does not mean that other cultures are equivocal to the major culture of the USA. This country would cease to exist with two or three equivocal cultures. Already we have sub-cultures within the major culture, people divide themselves as already shown by nationality and Race. Cultures vary as to what they see as important, I say watch Iraq in the future, 3 cultures trying to masquerade as one country. Look to Belgium, 3 cultures, none of which agree on anything. Canada, doesn't agree on many things, I gave a link, did you read it? So then why should we allow our culture to be equivocal to others within our own country?? What is going to happen to those that don't like the culture that takes place where they live?? Are you going to force them to move or accept it?? Your bi-culture is nothing more than American white culture you live each and every day, mixed with your 'culture' at home or by going out to eat at a foreign food restaurant. You are living in a sub-cultural version of what you believe to be a bi-cultural vision.
Dee,
What that is where you go wrong describing the U.S. as multi-cultural. We DO have a predominate culture, therefore we are not multi-cultural in identity. Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
Meant to say "well that is where you go wrong"
Mr. liquid said it even better than I did! You dee are not living in the real usa. You are living in a usa that you WISH it were instead because you can't stand the fact that this country is based white culture and still is even though foreign cultures live here.
Liquid,
Shall I now define Culture for you?
"Culture (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning "to cultivate")[1] generally refers to patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activities significance and importance. Cultures can be "understood as systems of symbols and meanings that even their creators contest, that LACK fixed boundaries, that are CONSTANTLY in FLUX, and that interact and compete with one another"."
Our culture continues to EVOLVE. Our culture has evolved since the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, 2000s.
Evolve:
Biology. to develop by a process of evolution to a different adaptive state or condition: The human species evolved from an ancestor that was probably arboreal.
In the 1800s, Blacks and Latinos were subservient to the White Northern Europeans.
The Civil War ended Slavery.
However, Jim Crow laws continued through to the 1960s. With the Civil Rights laws, we again evolved. Now, in the new millenium, we live up to our Declaration of Independence when we say "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men and women, of every color, of every ethnicity are created EQUAL, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"
Liquid,
Until the Civil Rights Movement which ended the Jim Crow laws!
Now we live in an EQUAL society!
Did the Civil Rights Movement end the White Supremacy you crave?
Liquid said...
This country was founded on 'white culture' and remained so until the 1960's.
One thing is NOT going to happen. We will NOT allow Beaner Jumping to continue!!!
No one is saying that humans are not created equal or that they shouldn't be treated as such. That has nothing to do with the fact that the usa has a predominant culture. There was no evolving of that basic culture to the point that it has changed drastically or changed the identity of this country. There is no culture that is equal to basic one as far as an "identifying" factor. Sorry you don't like that but the facts are the facts.
Shall I define the American Culture for you, Dee??
The term "Western culture" is used very broadly to refer to a heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, religious beliefs, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies. Specifically, Western culture may imply:
* a Graeco-Roman Classical and Renaissance cultural influence, concerning artistic, philosophic, literary, and legal themes and traditions, as well as a tradition of rationalism in various spheres of life, developped by Hellenistic philosophy, Scholasticism, Humanisms, the Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment, and including, in political thought, widespread rational arguments in favour of freethought, human rights, equality and democratic values averse to despotism, irrationality and theocracy.
* a Biblical-Christian cultural influence in spiritual thinking, costums and either ethic or moral traditions, around Post-Classical Era.
* Central and Eastern European cultural influences concerning artistic, musical, folkloric, ethic and oral traditions, whose themes have been further developped by Romanticism.
The concept of Western culture is generally linked to the classical definition of the Western world. In this definition, Western culture is the set of literary, scientific, political, artistic and philosophical principles which set it apart from other civilizations. Much of this set of traditions and knowledge is collected in the Western canon. [1]
The term has come to apply to countries whose history is strongly marked by Western European immigration or settlement, such as the Americas, and Australasia, and is not restricted to Western Europe.
Some tendencies that define modern Western societies are the existence of political pluralism, prominent subcultures or countercultures (such as New Age movements), increasing cultural syncretism resulting from globalization and human migration.
Western culture has developed many themes and traditions, the most significant of which are:
* Greco-Latin classic letters, arts, architecture, philosophical and cultural tradition, that include a large and vast influence of very important and preeminent authors such as Plato, Aristotle, Homer, Herodotus, Cicero or Caesar, as well as a very long mythologic tradition (approximately syncretic to other Mediterranean ones such as Phoenician or Egyptian).
* Biblic and Evangelic Christian cultural tradition, as well as part of Christian theology and philosophy, and an abundant tradition on the philosophical discipline of ethics.
* Secular humanism, rationalism and Enlightenment thought, as opposed to traditionally preeminent Catholicism and Protestant Christianity, religious and moral doctrines in lifestyle. Though such opposition has not fully ended, it set the basis for a new critical attitude and open questioning of religion, favouring freethinking and questioning of the church as an authority, which resulted in open-minded and reformist ideals inside, such as liberation theology, which partly adopted these currents, and secular and political tendencies such as laicism, agnosticism, materialism and atheism.
* A tradition and idea of importance of law which has its roots in both Roman law and the Bible.
* Widespread usage of terms and specific vocabulary borrowed, based or derived from Greek and Latin roots or etymologies for almost any field of arts, science and human knowledge, becoming easily understandable and common to almost any European language, and being a source for inventing internationalized neologisms for nearly any purpose. It is not rare for full loan Latin phrases or expressions, such as in situ, grosso modo or tempus fugit, to be in usage, many of them giving name to artistic or literatic concepts or currents. The usage of such roots and phrases is standardized in giving official scientific names for biological species (such as Homo sapiens or Tyrannosaurus rex). This shows a reverence for these languages, called classicism.
* Generalized usage of some form of the Latin or Greek alphabet. The latter includes the standard cases of Greece and other derived forms, such as Cyrillic, the case of those Slavic Eastern countries of Christian Orthodox tradition, historically under the Byzantine and later Russian czarist or Soviet area of influence. Other variants of it are encountered for Gothic and Coptic alphabets, that historically substituted older scripts, such as Runic, and Demotic or Hieroglyphic systems.
* Scholasticism.
* Renaissance arts and letters.
* The scientific method.
* The Western canon.
* Bob Dylan's Desolation Row is based upon westernized culture.
* Natural law, human rights, constitutionalism, parliamentarism (or presidentialism) and formal liberal democracy in recent times — prior to the 20th century, most Western governments were monarchies, yet.
* A large influence, in modern times, of many of the ideals and values developed and heritaged from Romanticism, and to some extent Modernism, Surrealism and related vanguards.
* Several subcultures (sometimes deriving into urban tribes) and countercultural movements, such as hippie lifestyle or New Age, that have left several influences on contemporary mainstream or subcultural tendencies (some of them, especially in the mainstream, can become merely aesthetical).
* Different currents of utopian and scientific socialist ideas, that has developped and evolved into all a world tradition of activism and critic theories against current model of unjust, class-divided, unequalitary societies. Being an expression of it revolutionary ideologies of high repercussion in modern times such as Republicanism, Utopian Socialism, Unionism, Anarchism, Marxism, Guevarism and New Left, among others.
Dee says:
"Now we live in an EQUAL society!"
Racially and ethnically, yes, culturally, no. Culturally, never.
Western culture is neither homogeneous nor unchanging. As with all other cultures it has evolved and gradually changed over time. All generalities about it have their exceptions at some time and place. The organisation and tactics of the Greek Hoplites differed in many ways from the Roman legions. The polis of the Greeks is not the same as the American superpower of the 21st century. The gladiatorial games of the Roman Empire are not identical to present-day football. The art of Pompeii is not the art of Hollywood. Nevertheless, it is possible to follow the evolution and history of the West, and appreciate its similarities and differences, its borrowings from, and contributions to, other cultures of humanity.
Anon,
You are very silly.
Of course our USA culture has evolved over the centuries. We have evolved even more so over the last few decades. And guess what, we will CONTINUE To EVOLVE!!
Anonymous said...
No one is saying that humans are not created equal or that they shouldn't be treated as such. That has nothing to do with the fact that the usa has a predominant culture. There was no evolving of that basic culture to the point that it has changed drastically or changed the identity of this country. There is no culture that is equal to basic one as far as an "identifying" factor. Sorry you don't like that but the facts are the facts.
Please re-read my post since you can't seem to comprehend what you are reading. I said that our culture hasn't evolved to the point where it has changed drastically from its original state or identity. The basics are still there with very little deviation from its original state.
Liquid,
Culturally never? You believe YOUR Culture, as you define it, is superior?
You copy and paste your links that are much too long and far too boring to read. Then you end it with this. Just ridiculous.
Liquidmicro said...
Dee says:
"Now we live in an EQUAL society!"
Racially and ethnically, yes, culturally, no. Culturally, never.
Another article:
"The United States and Europe are divided by a common culture of fear. On both sides, one encounters, in varying degrees, a fear of the other, a fear of the future, and a fundamental anxiety about the loss of identity in an increasingly complex world."
What is most important to remember is these HATE CRIMES against Latinos MUST NOT CONTINUE!!
This latest news with the Caucasian Crew saying "TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE." should cause us ALL to shudder.
We cannot condone this type of violence or allow it to continue!!
Dee said...
Liquid,
Culturally never? You believe YOUR Culture, as you define it, is superior?
You copy and paste your links that are much too long and far too boring to read. Then you end it with this. Just ridiculous.
I believe the Western Culture of the USA is the dominant culture, there are sub-cultures, which as you stated earlier you want to be equal to the dominant culture. As far as mine being superior, you are reading into what you want to think. My 'culture' is the American Culture, Western Culture. Whats your culture??
My info to long and boring?? Meaning you have no argument against it!!
What 'culture' are you wanting to be equal to Western, American Culture?? I ask again, what is your culture??
Who is the Caucasion crew?
Liquid,
MY Culture is the American Culture. It is evolving. It continues to evolve. It is a combination of cultures brought to it by a variety of races and ethnicities.
You choose to believe it is Northern European, White, Western Culture.
I believe our Great American Culture is evolving day to day.
Anon,
Please read the earlier reference in the comments. The Caucasian Crew is the name of the Long Island White Gang that murdered Mr. Lucero.
From the Gothamist article I previously posted:
Accusations Against LI Hate Crime Teens Keep Coming In
Another attack this week against two Hispanic man in the town of Patchogue in Suffolk County has been chalked up to local teens--possibly ones connected to "The CAUCASIAN CREW," the gang arrested in conjunction with the murder of Ecuadorian Marcelo Lucero. Luis Pichu and Carlos Banegas (a friend of Lucero's from Ecuador) were surrounded by a group of teens Tuesday night, some with skinhead haircuts, who yelled that they wanted "TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE." And yet another man has come forward and accused two of the members of the group that was arrested in Lucero's attack and murder as being the assailants when he was allegedly beaten badly while riding home on a bicycle last fall. "These people are still out there - they're STILL HUNTING," Marcelo's brother Joselo Lucero told the Post.
http://gothamist.com/2008/11/28/accusations_against_li_hate_crime_t.php
No, our culture is not evolving and changing everyday! There are enclaves of ethnic groups that will not assimilate but most immigrants adopt the native culture of this country while still maintaining some of their old culture. You make ridiculous statements!
Our thriving, multi-racial, multi-ethnic American Culture continues to evolve as per e pluribus unum:
E pluribus unum: out of many one. One state made of many states. One culture made of MANY cultures. One tribe made of MANY tribes. One clan made of MANY clans. One family made of MANY families of MANY Ethnicities and MANY races. Made of individuals as unique and precious as life itself.
Anonymous,
Your problem is you want to go back to preCivil Rights Mayberry. The problem is, no matter how hard you stomp your foot, there was never any Mayberry and even a time machine cannot take you back.
We are a thriving, multi racial, multi cultural society, ever evolving!
Anonymous said...
No, our culture is not evolving and changing everyday! There are enclaves of ethnic groups that will not assimilate but most immigrants adopt the native culture of this country while still maintaining some of their old culture. You make ridiculous statements!
Dee says;
"You choose to believe it is Northern European, White, Western Culture.
I believe our Great American Culture is evolving day to day."
You still haven't answered my question, what 'culture' is it that you want to be equal to that of the culture of the USA??
Dee says:
"Some countries have official, or de jure policies of multiculturalism aimed at recognizing, celebrating and maintaining the different cultures or cultural identities within that society to promote social cohesion. In this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating."
Right! Out of many ONE!
""TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE.""
You link to a Blog with no link to verify nor back up that statement. Why is it that you keep insighting hate amongst the people?? You push a separatism that, fueled by ignorant statements, will only divide further and poor more fuel on to the fire.
I haven't a clue what Mayberry has to do with this. Yes the white population is getting smaller but our country still has one identifying culture. This isn't about race, but culture.
No, we are a mono-cultural society in "identity" but multi-racial with people from minority cultures maintaining SOME of their old cultures. Most have assimilated into the main culture but some have not. Race hasn't a damned thing to do with it!
Liquid,
False Accuasation!
Do your poor researching skills cause you to make such false accusations?
The Gothamist
http://gothamist.com/
is a reputable newspaper.
Here let me spoon this article to you:
Accusations Against LI Hate Crime Teens Keep Coming In
NOW STOP WITH YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS!! APOLOGIZE!!
Anon,
And you are STUCK in a Time Warp!
Go back to Mayberry!
And it is YOU Liquid, pushing HATE and separatism.
We in the USA are a thriving multi ethnic, multi racial, multi cultural society, ever evolving into this new millenium!
We want Unity! Equality! Peace!
You still haven't answered my question, what 'culture' is it that you want to be equal to that of the culture of the USA??
Dee says:
"Some countries have official, or de jure policies of multiculturalism aimed at recognizing, celebrating and maintaining the different cultures or cultural identities within that society to promote social cohesion. In this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating."
My USA Culture is our thriving, multi-racial, multi-ethnic American Culture continues to evolve as per e pluribus unum:
E pluribus unum: out of many one. One state made of many states. One culture made of MANY cultures. One tribe made of MANY tribes. One clan made of MANY clans. One family made of MANY families of MANY Ethnicities and MANY races. Made of individuals as unique and precious as life itself.
MY Culture is the American Culture. It is evolving. It continues to evolve. It is a combination of cultures brought to it by a variety of races and ethnicities.
You choose to believe it is Northern European, White, Western Culture.
I believe our Great American Culture is evolving day to day.
You are the one stuck in a time warp of the 50's with your comparison of the illegal alien situation to the plight of Black citizens during the Civil Rights Movement.
Again, too bad that you don't like the reality of our mono-cultural identity. It is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it. Funny how you have no problem with Hispanic countries having a mono-cultural identity, isn't it? Are you also in denial about China, France, Japan and many other countries across the world having mono-cultural identities?
Here let me spoon this to you:
Gothamist is the first site in the Gothamist LLC network of blogs and is the most popular local blog in New York. Founded in early 2003, Gothamist has been described by The New York Times as a "marvelous, not-to-be-missed Web site" that "reflects everything worth knowing about this city." Forbes described Gothamist as a "sophisticated, deliciously urbane city blog." Additionally, Gothamist has been several times for the annual Bloggie Awards.
Does that fill your belly?? How about apologizing to me for your failure to research?? I prove you wrong so you delete my post?? Come on, stand by your false statement!!
Liquidmicro said:
"This country was founded on 'white culture' and remained so until the 1960's." - Liquidmicro
Liquid, you gotta be kidding, right? Listen, I'm a writer, so I'll start there. Now, I love my Faulkner, Hemingway, Whitman, Dickenson, Thoreau, Emerson, F. Scott Fitzgerald, etc., as much as the next American. But aren't you leaving some folks out? Frankly, I can't imagine an America without Ralph Ellison, Toni Morrison, Maya Angelou, James Baldwin, Zora Neale Hurston, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright,
You've never heard of the Harlem Renaissance, I gather. Or to branch out from writing: the blues? jazz (a uniquely American art form invented by African Americans)? Nor the civil justice movements inspired by non-whites Americans like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr; Marcus Garvey, Frederick Douglas; Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta (the United Farmworkers Movement)? And too many others to name.
You mention Dylan's song "Desolation Row." But what about his most famous song ""Like a Rolling Stone"? Dylan says he based it on Ritchie Valens' "La Bamba"
"''Rolling Stone's' the best song I wrote,' he said flatly at the end of 1965."
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/6595846/like_a_rolling_stone
Dylan has acknowledged the influence of black blues musicians in his music as well.
I think you glossed over this part liquid (in your words - or the Wiki page you copied and pasted):
“Some tendencies that define modern Western societies are the existence of political pluralism, prominent subcultures or countercultures…increasing cultural syncretism resulting from globalization and human migration.” – Liquidmicro
I deleted your post for name calling.
Your arguments are so weak. They are ridiculous.
As I said, the Gothamist is an award winning newspaper Blog for the city of New York. It is a very reputable site.
But you wouldnt know that because you do not do your research.
Stop your name calling. All blogs with name calling will be deleted.
Re-read your last paragraph, analisa, sub-cultures. Sub-cultures are not the main dominant western culture of the USA.
MLK, Cesar Chaves, all 1965 and after. Music is a sub-culture.
Nice try though. I'll give you some credit for an attempt.
What you believe and want to believe is so far from reality that it is almost funny if it weren't so sad that you dislike so much the usa as it has always been. Are you also one of those people who demands that your spouse change for you and yet claims you married them because you loved them for the way they were before you married them?
The point of this blog is, there are groups of people in Long Island KILLING Latinos just because they are Latinos. One white gang is called the Caucasian Crew. One of their leaders was Jeff Conroy, the man who murdered Mr. Lucero.
The murder has been charged as a HATE CRIME.
The rate of HATE groups is increasing, particularly in the Northeast. these groups include the NSM neo nazis and the KKK, Skinheads. They are recruiting their new members in a variety of ways including the internet.
All TRUE AMERICANS should say they are opposed to ALL FORMS of RACE CRIMES and opposed to these Hate Groups including the NSM, KKK, Skinheads and Neo Nazis.
The Gothamist is a BLOG, not a newspaper. Since when is IGNORANT name calling?? "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified".
Just admit you were wrong, that its not a newspaper, that it has no EVIDENCE of that statement and can not verify it at all.
Anon,
You live in a time warp.
This is the new millenium.
We in America are multi racial, multi ethnic, multi cultural.
Name calling....does that include those who call others, racists?
Your ignornance overwhelms you.
READ THE ORIGINAL BLOG I WROTE QUOTING NEWSDAY (or did you forget to READ It!)
"In the latest incident police are calling a hate crime, a group of eight youths in Patchogue shouted ethnic slurs at two Hispanic men coming out of a restaurant on East Main Street, then pushed one of them, police said.The incident was quickly broken up when a passing Patchogue Village code enforcement officer in a marked car did a quick U-turn and pulled over, police said.The youths ran down the street as the officer got out."Our code enforcement officer noticed it . He did exactly what he was supposed to do. He calmed the situation down and notified the Suffolk County Police Department," said Patchogue Mayor Paul Pontieri. "It is very alarming that after the incident of two weeks ago there are still people who have not gotten the message."
A Code Enforcement Officer WITNESSED these hoodlums doing what they did.
The Officer Witnessed it!!
I suppose YOU are going to call him a Liar!
You can repeat your nonsense about this country being multi-cultural in "identity" instead of mono-cultural in "identity" with sub-cultures also living here but it won't make it so no matter how times you repeat it in here.
These are statements from Lucero´s brother:
"These people are still out there - they're STILL HUNTING," Marcelo's brother Joselo Lucero told the Post.
TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE
So show us where that statement is in the original article or an article from a news source and not a blog??
What is it about you Liquid that stays in DENIAL from the FACTS yet you bend over backwards for Piekarsky?
Your references from that case were comments on a blog. Yet you take THAT over Courtroom testimony.
How Telling Liquid. How VERY, VERY Telling!!
WHAT IS IT ABOUT ETHNIC SLURS the OFFICER WITNESSED that YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND LIQUID???
"In the latest incident police are calling a hate crime, a group of eight youths in Patchogue shouted ethnic slurs at two Hispanic men coming out of a restaurant on East Main Street, then pushed one of them, police said."
And what comments I stated were from a Blog?? I linked to all articles from the MSM, sorry, please try again.
Music: a sub-culture? Is that what do you call classical music: a "subculture." Mozart, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, etc...outside of mainstream influences, were they?? Btw, you are wrong about Cesar Chavez and Martin Luther King, Jr. Cesar Chavez started out as a community organizer with the CSO in the 1950s. Martin Luther King, Jr., led the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott and helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in the '50s. And you didn't address all the other writers and intellectuals I mentioned (just the short list).
Subculture? Is that like "sub-human" to you, Liquid?
I don't care about anything other than what it is you have stated that you can not prove, that does nothing more then continue to divide peoples based on your ignorance.
Prove this statement otherwise you are doing nothing more than instigating racial strife:
TO KILL EVERYBODY, ALL SPANISH PEOPLE
And if the Gothamist, an AWARD WINNING Newspaper Blog well respected for the city of New York makes a statement, I have NO APOLOGY for reprinting their statements!
THESE ARE HATE CRIMES!! RACIST HATE CRIMES!!
The Caucasian Crew is ATTACKING Latinos for being Latino!!
As the Witnesses and Courtroom Testimony report.
WHY DO YOU THINK Conroy was held on MURDER Charges!!! It is ALL In courtroom testimony.
It is too bad you cannot comprehend this. Or, is it you dont WANT to understand.
How Telling!!
Analisa,
Liquid has been in DENIAL all afternoon.
He has been arguing that the Lucero case was not about the Caucasian Crew "Beaner Jumping" hunting down Latinos. He acts like these articles are not in the newspaper. He is in a total state of denial.
Then, he goes on these rants about our Great USA being some White Northern European culture that stagnated in the pre 1960s. He and Anonymous are stuck in Mayberry!
What are you trying to argue Analisa?? Are you trying to deny western culture is the dominant culture of the USA?? Have you not read any of my comments here?? Yes Music is a sub-culture. Bach Beethoven, Chopin, etc. Writers, Poets, etc, do not define culture. So what is it that you are trying to argue??
Gothamist is the first site in the Gothamist LLC network of blogs and is the most popular local blog in New York.
IT IS NOT A NEWSPAPER!!!! NO WHERE DOES IT SAY ITS A NEWSPAPER!!!! Retract your ignorant statement Dee, delete your post or just delete that info from your post. It has no factual evidence and shows your lack of better judgment.
Dee,
I agree with you that Liquid is in denial. I don't know how to shake him free of this delusional state of denial. All I can say is what I've said before in my original "j'accuse" message to Liquid and his mighty band of ANTIs who are into serious denial:
Liquid,
You've called me a socialist, a simpleton and a racist against white people, among other things. Half of the time, I don't even bother to react when you trot out these absurdities without any validatation. Consider the source - that's my view. I have a pretty good sense of humor (to you, it's sarcastic) so I just laugh it off. But the thing that truly upsets me, if you've noticed, is when you make outrageous allegations about the innocent victims of hate crimes: like Luis Ramirez. Or when you trot out case after case of sordid crimes allegedly committed by Latinos, as if these individual cases somehow add up to a Latino crime wave. I'll say it again: this is a familiar tactic. It was the tactic used by white racists in the Jim Crow South who accused innocent black men of raping white women. It is the despicable tactic of scapegoating innocent people of color, thereby provoking others - even less balanced people - to physically attack them.
So, Liquid, j'accuse...I accuse you and all the other white supremacists on this site of contributing to the general climate of hate that led to the murders of Marcelo Lucero and Luis Ramirez. You have abetted these crimes by inciting others to hate. That's my view. But I don't say this in anger...not really. You know, it just makes me terribly sad. It's pretty disheartening to listen to these diatribes against Latinos and the undocumented day after day. I'm willing to tamp down my rhetoric towards you - to stop using terms like racist. But what about you? Can we get some decency from you as well - like a little remorse for the families of Luis Ramirez and Marcelo Lucero?
I have question for you, liquid: What is it that you are so afraid of? That a Latino horde is coming to rape your daughters? Are we really such frightening people that you have to circle the wagons? Or is the boogeyman you fear really inside your head and your heart? Why are you trying to whip up hate against Latinos and undocumented immigrants? What purpose does it serve, except to provide you with a convenient target for your own personal frustration and sense of inadequacy? You know, I can't help but notice: How interesting that you're willing to withhold judgment of the white teenagers who killed Luis Ramirez and Marcelo Lucero, yet are only too willing to condemn any Latino accused of a crime. Tell me, hombre, do you comprehend the irony of this? No, I suppose not.
Analisa
Dee said:
"Liquid has been in DENIAL all afternoon.
He has been arguing that the Lucero case was not about the Caucasian Crew "Beaner Jumping" hunting down Latinos. He acts like these articles are not in the newspaper. He is in a total state of denial."
Then, he goes on these rants about our Great USA being some White Northern European culture that stagnated in the pre 1960s. He and Anonymous are stuck in Mayberry!"
You have got to be kidding me, right?? That's all yo can come up with??
"Liquid has been in DENIAL all afternoon.
He has been arguing that the Lucero case was not about the Caucasian Crew "Beaner Jumping" hunting down Latinos. He acts like these articles are not in the newspaper. He is in a total state of denial."
Please point out where I have stated anything about Lucero today?? I pointed out your statement that you can not verify nor prove. The only one here failing and being in denial is you. Just false accusations from you, typical.
"Then, he goes on these rants about our Great USA being some White Northern European culture that stagnated in the pre 1960s. He and Anonymous are stuck in Mayberry!"
Nothing like being in delusional grandeur on your part, huh Dee. Your utter ignorance befuddles your mind. Thanks for playing. Please insert your brain and try again.
I already answered your lengthy post Analisa, you were responding to it in the other topic, do you wish for me to bring it all over here??
Liquid, I have noticed your strategy of getting Dee to debate you over minutia - like who kicked who in the head (just one example). Does it really matter? The fact is, no one deserves to be taunted with racial slurs. No one deserves to be kicked in the head. And Luis Ramirez didn't deserve to be brutally murdered. Marcelo Lucero didn't deserve to be stabbed. So, these teenage boys who cruelly taunted and beat these men should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law. No excuses!
Now, you ANTIs are "law and order" types, no? You are always saying that we are a nation of laws. And conservatives like you are always talking about "victim rights" - except when the victim is Latino. Why is that? Hmmm?
I have told you before, go back to the first topic and read each and every one on Ramirez and Lucero, you will note my statements of all boys should be held accountable for their actions and jailed. Your inability to comprehend what I have said is who's fault??
As for arguments, the devils are in the minute details. By painting such a broad picture you miss all the information, details, details, and more details.
Analisa,
You hit the nail on the head.
Analisa,
So, Liquid, j'accuse...I accuse you and all the other white supremacists on this site of contributing to the general climate of hate that led to the murders of Marcelo Lucero and Luis Ramirez. You have abetted these crimes by inciting others to hate.
Analisa,
You are also right. Liquid knows he cannot win the overall argument.
These Hate Crimes Against the Latinos were WRONG and the perpetrators should be punished to the FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW!!
Liquid is just stuck in minutia! Let´s leave him to sit there and stew in it for the evening!
Analisa said...
Liquid, I have noticed your strategy of getting Dee to debate you over minutia
Do you even know what Minutia is Dee??
Ay, Liquid,
Stop insulting Dee's intelligence. You're not even in her league!
I don't deny that it's a highly important component of American culture. But it is only one aspect - there are many other influences that led to the unique fusion of cultures that compose our American culture (as opposed to European culture). You know, the Europeans admire us for our jazz and other aspects of our culture that come from one of the most oppressed gruops in American: black people. So, this is my 'version' of history: It is inclusive of all the groups who have contributed to our American culture (which was influenced by but distinct from European culture). We truly are a multicultural nation and have our own unique culture, apart from Europe. Suffice it to say that "western culture" has contributed much of importance, but it is only dominant because it was imposed on everyone else who was here: African Americans, Native Americans, immigrant groups from every corner of the globe.
Liquidmicro said:
"What are you trying to argue Analisa?? Are you trying to deny western culture is the dominant culture of the USA??"
Isn't calling anyone in this blog a white supremist an insult? I mean if calling someone ignorant is and having their post deleted for it, I would certainly think that white supremist qualifies also.
I haven't read from anyone in this blog that they think the white race is superior. I certainly don't. Would you also consider the Mexicans in Mexico the brown supremeist version for wanting to retain their dominant culture or is there a double standard here?
All right, Liquid. I'm don't mean to insult you, but you make me angry when you try to bully or demean Dee. In fact, I have starting to feel a bit of affection for you...ever since you sent me that poem about your son. I see that you are a poet, too...so we have something in common.(I have a weakness for poets.) And I was quite impressed that you took the time to read my stories. You seem like a fairly sophisticated man...you travel widely and your wife speaks a number of languages. So I guess I have a hard time understanding how you be so myopic to the contributions of other peoples and cultures to America. As a writer, I thrive on this stuff. It really puzzles me how you could deny something so essential to the American experience.
Well, have a good night everyone. I have to prepare for classes tomorrow.
Analisa
Analisa,
You are very insightful. Thank you for joining my blog.
I was just reading another blog (the czech) about this case. The title was "Boys Will Be Boys Will Be… Killers?" and the author was blogging about the number of people trying to make excuses for the "boys" that murdered Mr. Lucero in this horrific Hate Crime.
In part, the blog said,
"No one is saying they didn’t do it, but it seems vital to this article’s author that it be known there isn’t a bigoted bone in these boys’ bodies, particularly Jeffrey Conroy, the one who did the stabbing. She lists non-white friends and family members of the young man, sounding a lot like the “I have a black friend!” defense. A relative is quoted as saying, “There is no prejudice in my family.” Jeffrey Conroy is even nice to his own half-brother, who is part Puerto-Rican! He plays Lacrosse! He wrestles! He gets along with his parents! He is “warm and patient with younger boys…”! He is “tall and muscular with a chiseled face and buzz cut…”!
WTF!
Therefore the decision to “go find some Mexicans” is totally not based on racial hatred? How can it be interpreted in any other way? Especially considering that Mr. Lucero wasn’t even Mexican, he just looked Hispanic to his killers, and that was enough. All he did was look Hispanic in the wrong place and the wrong time to earn his death. How is that not racial?
A more appropriate NYT article from the same day as Barnard’s quotes fellow “bean-jumper” Jose Pacheco:
Mr. Pacheco later told the police, “I don’t go out and do this very often, maybe once a week,”
Aaahhh! So why is Barnard trying to paint these people as All-American Boys? It’s not like we’re not sure if they did it or not. That’s settled. How is their wrestling status at all related? This seems like a classic “boys will be boys” pass. Conroy is handsome, white, athletic, and well-liked. Therefore, let’s go easy on him, folks?
What about Marcelo Lucero? Uh, wasn’t he just as much a human being?"
I agree. What about Marcello.
Newsday just reported more racist graffiti in the area. As I earlier reported, the rate of HATE Groups is increasing across the nation, especially in the northeast where the NSM neo nazis and KKK Skinhead groups are on the rise:
"Bias graffiti found at N. Bellmore school ballfieldBY JENNIFER BARRIOS | jennifer.barrios@newsday.com
December 1, 2008
Nassau police are searching for suspects after bias graffiti was found scratched into a ballfield at a North Bellmore elementary school on Saturday.
A swastika and the letters " KKK" were discovered scrawled in the dirt about 15 feet away from where two teenage boys had started a small fire, Nassau police said.
Det. Sgt. Kenneth Catalani said that an employee at the John G. Dinkelmeyer Elementary School saw the boys, dressed in black clothing, setting fire to a field bench at the school's ballfield at about 2:43 p.m.
The employee called 911 and approached the boys, who fled."
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/nassau/ny-libias5948262dec01,0,3844855.story
Hey Dee, thanks for the shout-out. When quoting extensively from my blog, it would be super to link to the post: http://theczech.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/boys-will-be-boys-will-be-killers/#comment-62
You can email me through my blog if you aren't sure how to embed the link... I can explain it.
Anyways, to ignore the racial element in this murder is willful denial. The whole point for the boys that fateful night was to find someone of a certain ethnicity to attack, an activity they not only admit to, but admit to doing quite often.
There is no point in arguing with "anonymous" and this liquid character... they are expressing white supremacist beliefs and are just trying to rile you up. Saying that white culture should be America's only culture, and claiming it was the "first" one here, even though school children know that is false, is just white supremacism, supported by willful ignorance.
Bleh, sucks to know there are people like that out there. They really believe that White makes Might makes Right.
Thank you Czech.
I am also going to add you to my blogroll favorites!!
Analisa wrote,"western culture" has contributed much of importance, but it is only dominant because it was imposed on everyone else who was here."
The question perhaps should be re-phrased as, "Would you have had it otherwise and would America be as attractive to others who are trying to gain entry if it had not been for the Western culture and learning that was imposed on us?" I think we can drop the idea of a dominant culture other than the American culture but surely there is a great deal of intrinsic worth in Western culture on which America was founded. There are many things that have been contributed by other cultures but they pale in significance to the ideas and ideals of Western culture. We could be a Nigeria, or a banana republic but for the colonization by Europeans.
czech,
I am not white supremist nor is anyone else who proclaims that we do have a basic culture founded on white European culture and the English language. Those are just the facts! I have also stated that I am not looking for this country to be all white racially. Sure there are sub-cultures that live among the dominant culture in this country and no one is complaining about that either. Does it also make Mexicans "brown supremists" to state the FACT that their country is Hispanic culturally and they don't wish it to change to Anglo or Chinese? Of course not because it is just a FACT! Do you see how hateful and ludicrous it is for you to call a FACT a supremist attitude?
All of the white people in this forum including myself have stated that hate and race based crimes are not acceptable and that those who commit them should be punished. Why are you and Dee and
Analista ignoring our statements as if we haven't even said them?
You go and delete 5 or 6 of my comments?? You've got to be kidding me.
I keep seeing a claim going around this thread about America being founded on "white European culture" as though that is an argument that white European culture should be dominant in America.
Let's examine. From 12,000 years ago until the 1500s Native Americans inhabited and dominated the area now called America. Whites arrived in 1553. Africans arrived as slaves around 1700. The Dutch gave up their colonies to England in 1674, and thereafter America was a British colony until 1776.
Northern Europeans, the French and the English were the only people considered "white" for a long time. Italians, Irish, Jews and Eastern Europeans were not considered white until sometime in the 20th century.
Waves of immigrants since 1776 have massively changed the United States demographics, changed who we considered "white", and changed our common culture. Europeans do not celebrate Halloween, Thanksgiving, MLK Day or the 4th of July. Europeans do not value gun ownership. In many ways, American culture differs greatly from European culture, and that is because we have absorbed so many different people leaving places of lesser opportunity around the globe.
So which "white European culture", and at which time period, do those of you who claim that is what we are "founded on", should we all follow? Should we all act British? Or act like Spanish conquistadores? I don't get it... should English-Americans go back to hating Italian-Americans, since that is part of our traditional culture?
And why do people who obsess over "white European culture" have no respect for the peoples' cultures who were here long before the whites?
There is no point in making these "white culture" claims except to keep whites dominant. No other purpose is served. These claims are historically dubious and harmful to people of color, who have the right as Americans or American workers to practice their culture as they please.
Saying you aren't white supremacist and acting like you aren't white supremacist are two different things. I will take actions over words to suss out a person's beliefs, if their actions and words contradict each other. Holding a belief that categorically benefits whites and disadvantages POC... well, that speaks for itself.
BTW, I am white! And I *heart* immigrants!
First who said we were founded on White European Culture?? You must first comprehend the discussion before you can type your diatribe. Western Culture is what is being discussed, and is also the dominant culture of the USA. If Dee would not have deleted any of my posts you would have been able to read that. But she can't handle criticism or anybody pointing out her inaccuracies and dishonest statements or arguments. Our society was founded on Western Culture and is the basis of our culture. I will ask you the same question I have asked of Dee, that she is still unable to answer.
What 'culture' are you wanting to be equal to Western, American Culture??
Or are you confusing 'culture' with 'civil rights'??
"These claims are historically dubious and harmful to people of color, who have the right as Americans or American workers to practice their culture as they please."
Then am I to assume you are fine with Sharia Law and see no problem with it here in the USA, after all its 'new' Americans practicing their culture as they please, right??
Liquid,
All anyone has to do is look back at your own posts on this thread or any other. They are all, boringly, the same. You and Anonymous are twin sisters in your diatribes.
The only comments I deleted were those that violate the charter of this blog:
1. No Name Calling
2. No Going OFF TOPIC of the Posted Blog!
Obviously those deleted violated one or both!
Thank you for your comments Czech!
You are such a breath of fresh air and a voice of LOGIC!!
Thank you!!
Czech,
I love the fact you are basing your arguments on HISTORY!
As I have said all along, we must understand our History before we make any judgement on our current Immigration state we are in today.
Actually the discussion about American culture is not in line with the title of this topic. Several including "czech" have made comments about American culture, yet you don't object to his "off topic" remarks?
Actually Dee, you need to comprehend what she is saying and we are not discussing White European Culture. We are discussing Western Culture as it pertains to the USA. If you wish to talk history, please bring it, as I enjoy history very much.
Analisa actually has understood the discussion quite well and is able to intelligently argue it, unlike your's or Czech's intellectual disability.
Czech,
Tomorrow, I want to do a blog on your blog Wealth and Religiosity. I LOVED it!!
There are so many people here that believe our country is the same homongenous culture. Your charts show how ludicrous this claim is. Our country is very diverse, from Wealth, to Faith, to Ethnicity, Race, Region, to Music, to Food, we are probably the most diverse country in the world.
I love the fact that this particular blog of yours zeroes in on two aspects, wealth and Faith, then rolls in Blue vs Red (politics).
Plus, we continue to evolve in our diverse nation.
So much to absorb. So much to discuss!!
From Wikepedia:
"The culture held in common by most Americans is referred to as mainstream American culture, a Western culture largely derived from the traditions of Western European migrants, beginning with the early English and Dutch settlers. German, Irish, and Scottish cultures have also been very influential."
How little you comprehend actual statements made.
Liquidmicro said...
Western culture is neither homogeneous nor unchanging. As with all other cultures it has evolved and gradually changed over time. All generalities about it have their exceptions at some time and place.
November 30, 2008 3:23 PM
More interesting tidbits about the demographics and population makeup of the U.S. This time from the World Factbook. (July 2007)
Population composition:
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic.
Now based on the above what ethnic group's culture would just naturally be the dominant one in this country and always has been since it was founded as the U.S.?
"Holding a belief that categorically benefits whites and disadvantages POC... well, that speaks for itself."
Please show everyone, or explain to everyone, what beliefs benefit whites and disadvantage people of color in our culture?? Since you seem to be so 'in the know' about everything and all.
Liquid, please stop with these kind of remarks, okay? We don't need to engage in ad hominem attacks or demean each other's intelligence. As you've said before (or maybe it was Dee), it just shows the weakness of your argument. We're all intelligent people here. We had a nice discussion yesterday...too bad I can't continue it today (too much to do). Let's show respect for each other, k?
Analisa
Liquidmicro said:
"European Culture. We are discussing Western Culture as it pertains to the USA. If you wish to talk history, please bring it, as I enjoy history very much.
Analisa actually has understood the discussion quite well and is able to intelligently argue it, unlike your's or Czech's intellectual disability."-Liquidmicro
Interesting that my pointing out that Analisa was guilty of ad hominen attacks herself from the beginning was deleted.
Anonymous,
Listen, I know it upsets you when I use words like "white supremacist" or "racism" to describe my perception of your attitudes (on the ANTI side). Please understand that I am addressing the ATTITUDE, not the person. I've said many times that I don't know you as individuals, so all I am doing is responding to your attitudes. These attitudes appear to reflect a sense of superiority to other groups and a feeling of entitlement. Honestly, I'd prefer not to put labels on people. No matter what label you put on a person, it doesn't do justice to the full complexity of who they are as a human being. Perhaps in your own lives, you are doing positive things for others in your community. I don't know. Nonetheless, we all have good and bad impulses...so let's be honest with ourselves: sometimes we're a little unconscious of the harm that we do to others. We rationalize it or find ways of avoiding it - banishing our less pure motives and impulses from our minds. We applaud ourselves for the good we do, and project our bad qualities on to others. To a certain extent, this is human nature. But sometimes, it's convenient if the "other" belongs to a group that is not generally accepted or popular (remember grade school?).
Now, I'm a writer so I know that people have nuances. We all have biases of one kind or another and sometimes those biases are unconscious. This goes for all of us: me, you and just about everyone. When I talk about 'racism,' this is what I'm talking about - our conscious or unconscious biases towards people based on their racial or ethnic characteristics. We can't afford to live in denial about this because it causes resentment and pain that eventually tears at the fabric of society. So we have to be conscious of it. Now, I'm not asking you or anyone to wallow in guilt (a rather unproductive emotion). I'm just saying that we need to be aware, thoughtful, and compassionate...this is the basis of all religions and spiritual traditions: to treat others like you would have them treat you. That's why we ask you not to use words that wound people like "illegal" and "alien" which makes it sound like heinous criminals are invading from Mars or something. The undocumented are human beings just like you and me. So, please, let's treat them with the respect they deserve. And I'm quite willing to give up words like "racist" or "white supremacist" because I'm sure these words don't do justice to who you are as a human being either. Thank you.
Analisa
Anonymous said:
“Interesting that my pointing out that Analisa was guilty of ad hominen attacks herself from the beginning was deleted.” - Anonymous
I guess that two can play the same game then? Consider in the future when you accuse us anti's of ad hominum attacks, we are only attacking THE ATTITUDE, ok?
And no backpeddling now because you have actually called "individuals", racists and white supremists in here.
The issue is illegal immigration, not racial bias for the majority of us Americans who are opposed to such behavior. But you concentrate on the fringe groups and individuals to nullify any rational objection to illegal immigration by the majority. It is called "race card pulling".
Fine by me. I alway consider the source, anyway. ;-)
"I guess that two can play the same game then? Consider in the future when you accuse us anti's of ad hominum attacks, we are only attacking THE ATTITUDE, ok?" - Anon
Likewise.
Liquid,
I appreciate all the beautiful poetry you’ve been posting to my wordpress blog. However, I’ve decided to block you from my site until you can be more civil to Dee. I wish I had a dollar for every time you’ve insulted her intelligence. It’s unacceptable to me. Please don’t think you can play a game of “divide and conquer” with us. I’m on to your strategies.
Analisa
Liquidmicro said:
"Analisa actually has understood the discussion quite well and is able to intelligently argue it, unlike your's or Czech's intellectual disability."-Liquidmicro
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