From Courtroom Testimony: In a six-hour preliminary hearing, Joseph Benjamin Lawson Jr., 17, testified he and the five others in the group drank liquor in the woods before going to the Polish-American Fire Company block party, where they argued with a firefighter about ''messing around'' with other football players.All three of the accused played on Shenandoah Valley High School's football team last year. Donchak was the quarterback. Lawson testified that, at the block party, Donchak was especially angry.As they walked to Donchak's house, he testified, they came across Ramirez and Dillman's half-sister, Roxanne, 15, at the park. According to Lawson, another teen, Brian Scully, who has not been charged, said to the girl, ''Isn't it a little late for you to be out?''The girl didn't answer, but Ramirez replied in Spanish, and Scully replied, ''This is Shenandoah, this is America, go back to Mexico,'' and used racial slurs. The two began fighting, Lawson said.Donchak hurried to join in, Lawson testified. Ramirez went down and the others stood around him, kicking him to the head and torso, Lawson said. But it was after Ramirez got up, while fighting with Donchak, that Lawson said Walsh ran up and sucker-punched him in the face.Ramirez fell to the ground with such force his head bounced off the macadam, leaving him unconscious. Then Piekarsky administered a FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD, Lawson said.
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57 comments:
What is important is that we listen to the Witness Testimony.
The depictions in the diagrams I provided provide the Testimony of young Ben Lawson, a football player that accompainied the football players. It is very important his testimony be heard and visualized!
Ben Lawson, whose testimony is depicted, was a fellow football player. He had nothing to gain from admitting the truth. In fact, he was very brave in standing up and providing the Truth!
I think he is a Hero.
In recent weeks, Voice of the People, a White Nationalist Hate Group has enveloped the towns of Shenandoah and Postville. Members include Don Amato from the racist hate site Diggers Realm, includes Wendy M. another VoP member and a representative of PA Pundits. They were in the courtroom last Thursday. They pretend to represet the people of Shenandoah.
Voice of the People representatives were instrumental in advocating the resignation of Shenanadoah´s Mayor.
What a horrible, horrible action by the racist outsider group, Voice of the People.
Liquidmicro said...
Since this was only a preliminary hearing (Usually held soon after arraignment, a preliminary hearing is best described as a "trial before the trial" at which the judge decides, not whether the defendant is "guilty" or "not guilty," but whether there is enough evidence to force the defendant to stand trial. In making this determination, the judge uses the "probable cause" legal standard, deciding whether the government has produced enough evidence to convince a reasonable jury that the defendant committed the crime(s) charged.
What to Expect at the Preliminary Hearing
In reaching this probable cause decision, the judge listens to arguments from the government (through a government attorney, or "prosecutor"), and from the defendant (usually through his or her attorney). The prosecutor may call witnesses to testify, and can introduce physical evidence in an effort to convince the judge that the case should go to trial. The defense usually cross-examines the government's witnesses and calls into question any other evidence presented against the defendant, seeking to convince the judge that the prosecutor's case is not strong enough, so that the case against the defendant must be dismissed before trial.) your pictographs still remain incorrect. You still fail to see all the evidence, Mrs. Garcias own eye witness account and statements.
ARIELLE GARCIA: He was at our house all day that afternoon. And it was around maybe 11:00, he asked us to take him uptown to drop him off, whatever, he was going to go home. So, we leave him at the Vine Street Park, and we drive away, Victor and I, and about two minutes later he called us and told us to come back, that people were beating him up. So we get back as fast as we could. And when we get there, he was—like the fight was over, like the boys were walking away, but they were still screaming like racial slurs, like “Go back to Mexico!”
And so, Victor and I ran up to Luis, and we said, “What happened?” But he was so mad, he wasn’t really talking to us. And those kids kept yelling stuff, and he went back, and the kids turned around, and the fight started again. So Victor, my husband, tried to like stop the fight. He tried to get the kids off of Luis, but kids were trying to fight my husband. So my husband got the kids off of him, and we couldn’t stop the fight between Luis and the—but next thing we know, Luis was on the floor. And so, me and Victor, we ran up to his side, and we were at his side. We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like kicking him and kicking him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they kicked him like in the left side of his head so hard that that’s what killed him.
Since the Prosecution has already offered plea bargains, 10 months in County Jail, that means most of the charges have been found to be questionable in an actual court case by the prosecution. But then once this does go to court, all the evidence will come out, and the order in which it happened. Until then.....
November 17, 2008 5:06 PM
"According to Lawson, another teen, Brian Scully, who has not been charged, said to the girl, ''Isn't it a little late for you to be out?''The girl didn't answer, but Ramirez replied in Spanish"
Ramirez should have said nothing and kept walking with the girl, due to his response he became an accomplice in the fight. I guess being twice the legal limit and on Benzo, it gives you super powers and not common sense.
Liquid,
By your own reference,
WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT MURDER (and the final Kick to the HEad??)
"but next thing we know, Luis was on the floor. And so, me and Victor, we ran up to his side, and we were at his side. We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like KICKING him and KICKING him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they KICKED him like in the left side of his HEAD SO HARD that that’s what KILLED HIM!!!"
WITNESS STATEMENT:
but next thing we know, Luis was on the floor. And so, me and Victor, we ran up to his side, and we were at his side. We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like kicking him and kicking him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they kicked him like in the left side of his head so hard that that’s what killed him.
And Mrs Garcia is a doctor, right?? She has the final say in what killed Ramirez?? As the coroner stated, blunt force trauma to the head is what killed Ramirez, that 'could' be the kick or it 'could' be the punches or it 'could' be when he hit his head on the macadam. There is no 'evidence' that the "kick" is what killed him, only an assumption and allegation.
Your concept of "Kick in the Head Murder" is nothing more than you not understanding the process of determining evidence and imposing guilt. How do you plan to prove it was the "Kick" that killed him?? You must first prove clear and convincing evidence before you can continue on that charge.
The man is laying PASSED OUT on the Ground.
BY ALL ACCOUNTS!!!
Even by Lawson the Football Player!!
Why would Piekarsky DELIVER that FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD???? What Kind of Animal is Piekarsky??
He NEEDS to FACE the FULLEST Penalty of the LAW!!
Even Lawson said, Piekarsky DELIVERed that FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD???? What Kind of Animal is Piekarsky??
He NEEDS to FACE the FULLEST Penalty of the LAW!!
And what is Piekarskys penalty?? According to the prosecution, its only worth 10 months in county jail.
I would like to hear from the retired policewoman witness. She is the one who called 911.
She is the one who reported all of the Racial Slurs by the perpetrators of this crime!
She is the one who WE ALL should listen to about this heinous crime! SHE was a witness!
"The Final Kick" could also mean the last blow of the fight. There is more than one meaning to a word, concept of its intent is the question. Your concept is indeed different then mine.
Across the street, Burke, the retired Philly cop, heard the "F word, slurs and Mexican this and that" for a few minutes, she recalled in an interview at her home.
Burke heard a high-pitched female voice screaming, "Stop kicking him, stop beating him," she said.
She called for an ambulance, and when she looked outside, she saw a group of youths in a circle and heard the thuds of kicking. Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez.
By the time she went out into the street, Burke said, she saw a young man emitting what cops call the "death rattle," the labored breathing that often precedes death. Ramirez was foaming at the mouth, his body convulsing so feverishly that "he was bouncing off the ground."
As tragic as Ramirez's death was, and as violent as it occurred, it is a tragedy. However, you can not deny his culpability in the escalation and involvement in the fight. His choices were to either walk away, or fight for what ever drunken reason. His choice is what ultimately caused his demise. The boys did have a part in it as well, instead of acting like young men they acted in a gang type of way and fought the same. The excess as to what this fight ended in was uncalled for and shows no rationalization on the side of the boys.
However the court decides this case, what ever the outcome, it will never be enough of a sentence to fully compensate for Ramirz's life or to his children.
On that note, the proof of evidence lies on the prosecution, if the boys can not be held accountable for all the charges then it is up to the prosecution to decide the charges they can prove. The boys will then have been charged by a jury of their peers and according to the law of our nation, been held accountable to the extent of their guilt.
The man is laying PASSED OUT on the Ground.
BY ALL ACCOUNTS!!!
Even by Lawson the Football Player!!
Why would Piekarsky DELIVER that FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD???? What Kind of Animal is Piekarsky??
He NEEDS to FACE the FULLEST Penalty of the LAW!!
The saddest, saddest comments are the Final Comments.
How can you look in the mirror and Condone piekarsky´s last actions??
how can you do that??
WITNESS TestimonyÑ
By the time she went out into the street, Burke said, she saw a young man emitting what cops call the "death rattle," the labored breathing that often precedes death. Ramirez was foaming at the mouth, his body convulsing so feverishly that "he was bouncing off the ground."
i am not familiar with 'voice of the people' and when they were accused of being a white hate group it got my curiosity and attention up. i found this on their website.
"We at Voice of the People have nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with any hate, white power, nationalist, or Aryan group. It has been brought to our attention that some of these groups have been copying and pasting text from this web site and posting it on their web site! We have absolutely nothing to do with that. It is not what we are about and we do not endorse any stealing of our text and writings for any of these groups use or self gain. This has nothing to do with race this is simply standing up for the laws of our U.S. citizens. This is legality vs illegality."
Thank you,
Voice of the People USA PAC
Dee said...
The saddest, saddest comments are the Final Comments.
How can you look in the mirror and Condone piekarsky´s last actions??
how can you do that??
Who's condoning anything?? You fail to grasp what I have stated. Now you spin it to assume I condone Piekarkys actions?? Boy are you grasping at straws. Comprehend the context of what I have stated, instead of assuming what you perceive to have been said.
It is up to the PROSECUTION to PROVE GUILT, not for the defendants to prove innocence. You really need to take a class on law, or better yet go sit on a jury. Your inability to understand how laws work is causing you to become oversensitive in the ability to clearly comprehend the role of the courts and the juries to apply penalty for charges of guilt.
As for Piekarsky being labeled an animal, I guess alcohol makes people do stupid things, look at what it caused Ramirez, his life.
Liquid, your attempt to smear Luis Ramirez by linking him to a crime he never committed is despicable. You might as well kick him in the head yourself. You are besmirching his good name and just causing more pain to his family. Please let the man rest in peace - he suffered enough during his lifetime. If you have any decency at all, please show some respect for his family. His children and his fiancée do not need you to smear his good name with your lies. Here is what Crystal Dillman had to say about her fiancée, "If they knew him, they would never have done this." She talked about what a good man he was, what a wonderful father. He was working three jobs - working in a factory and doing farm work - to support his family. Ms. Dillman said that everyone who knew Luis Ramirez loved him. You do nothing for your cause by spreading vicious lies about him.
Let's dispense with these lies and stereotypes concerning undocumented immigrants and crime once and for all. The truth is that, as a percentage of the population, undocumented immigrants commit far less crime than native-born citizens. This is a fact. You may have trouble digesting this fact because you probably spend too much time listening to the hatemongers on talk radio or cable TV. But it's the truth. The lies and stereotypes about the undocumented have been refuted time and again by a number of sources. Here's the URL for one media watch group which does an excellent job of putting all these lies to bed where they belong:
http://mediamattersaction.org/reports/fearandloathing/online_version
Btw Liquid, I found that article you posted about the sex offender far more offensive than anything you’ve said to date. Who do you take us for, anyway? You think we don't recognize your tactics? You think you can bamboozle us with outright lies about this man? These are the very same tactics used during the Civil Rights era when racist whites would falsely accuse black men of raping white women in the South. "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose," as the French saying goes (loosely translated: "The more it changes, the more it stays the same.") Unfortunately, the undercurrent of racism in this country has never really ebbed - it has just gone underground and resurfaced in a more virulent form. White supremacists can't get away with scapegoating black people so easily anymore. So you have just found a new group of victims by targeting Latinos and undocumented immigrants. And you're using the same old racist tactics by attempting to link people with Hispanic names to every sordid crime. That article offended me because of what you were trying to imply about Latinos. What does it really prove, anyway? Some man committed an awful sex crime. He happened to be Hispanic in this ONE case. But this does not prove that ALL Hispanics are guilty of such crimes? No. Listen, I can match you case for case with white males who have committed similar offenses. Does it prove anything? No, of course not. So, what is your argument exactly? Did you ever take a course in logic? You could certainly benefit from it.
For that matter, the murders of Luis Ramirez and Marcelo Lucero don't prove that all white people are members of a racist lynch mob. However, when you excuse the acts of the people who killed these men while hurling racist slurs, you are sending a message. Your message is that the lives of Hispanics are cheap (your view). I don't even have to point this out to truly intelligent people. Your statements are there for all to read...and you've made it abundantly clear whose lives matter to you. If it were a white person who was murdered by a Hispanic, you wouldn't be arguing for the person to get off with a mere slap on the wrist. Now, "Anonymous" - who is probably Pat but prefers to hide in cowardly anonymity under his 'white sheet' rather than give a name - had the temerity to accuse me of lying about you. I have no need for lies; your statements are all there as plain as day. Go back and reread the entire blog on Marcelo Lucero's brutal murder. Then, please reflect on your arguments. The hate and ugliness directed at Hispanics (not just the undocumented either) is all there - anyone can see it. Moreover, the racism displayed there is clear, palpable, and shocking. If you are trying to convince people that you are average Americans and not white supremacists, try acting like it. Show some decency and kindness for the families of the victims, at the very least. That's what America is all about: reaching out, helping your neighbor, doing the right thing - the decent thing. Imagine the suffering that Crystal Dillman and her children are going through right now. Think about the pain in the Latino community. Or are you even capable of caring for anyone who isn't white?
I've spread no lies about Ramirez. Everything I have said can be backed up through the numerous articles of this case, I suggest you do some research. I also suggest you find the copy of his numerous violations of the law, and also those of Mrs. Dillman before you start accusing me of anything.
Spare me the theatrics of your inane diatribe. Do you think you can sweep under the rug the actual events that took place?? Its OK for you and yours to espouse that "We also need to solve the sexual predator crimes. (e.g. white middle aged men)" and get away with your racism?? Get a new deck, your card has been played out and your ignorance along with your age is showing. Try growing up and creating intelligent arguments and dialect, all you have is the 'race' card. Simply Pathetic on your part.
Hispanics get a free pass every day, while you still fail to comprehend the actual events and lay blame to others because they don't agree with your point of view. Arizonian gave a good article, from the Houston Chronicle, (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6115223.html) in regards to your insufficient excuses of if it were a white person who was murdered by a Hispanic, you wouldn't be arguing for the person to get off with a mere slap on the wrist.
You still make too many assumptions, again I call your young age into question, Anon/John is not Patriot, totally different writing style for one and second according to the IP address, not even in the same state as Patriot. Your accusations of 'white sheets' is also getting old and tiresome. As for you lying, you just make accusations and assumptions that you perceive, Quite honestly I don't care what you think nor what you believe, you can call or say what you want about me, sticks and stones love, sticks and stones.
Well, I suppose I could expect as much from a man who thinks he can argue case law in a blog. When I told my father - an immigration attorney - he had a good laugh. Then he asked me why I was wasting my time arguing with an ignoramus. You know, he had a point.
Okay, I'm signing off for tonight, so if anyone posts as Analisa, they are an imposter. I actually have a life outside this blog! As always, have a peaceful evening.
Chaito!
Analisa
Ignoramus?? Like I said, you have no argument, you espouse names as a child, your age, your writing skill, and your research capability show you are nothing more than, oh whats a good word for you.....simpleton will do.
Mediamatters as a credible site?? You're kidding right??
"The truth is that, as a percentage of the population, undocumented immigrants commit far less crime than native-born citizens."
Now that 'percentage of the overall population' has you fooled, and is the lie behind the report. I'm willing to bet you have not read the reports, because if you had then you would note the following:
"the foreign-born are incarcerated at a rate half as high as their presence in the population." That's just in California.
Where the report fails is it does not quantify the fact that those who are caught and are "Illegal Aliens" are repatriated back to country of origin quicker than they are incarcerated because lack of extradition to other states and counties, even for crimes such as rape, a heinous crime.
Alleged molestor still in country
Avila had been scheduled for deportation until the U.S. Marshals picked him up last week on federal charges of re-entering the country after deportation, according to ICE Public Affairs Officer Gail Montenegro.
U.S. Marshals confirmed Avila is still in its custody in Indianapolis. But now, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of Indiana said it plans to dismiss the federal charge against Avila because he can only be charged with re-entry in the state where he originally entered the country illegally. Unless a court order is issued demanding Avila’s return to Clark County, he still remains set for deportation.
The U.S. District Court Clerk’s office said no further hearing dates have been set for Avila.
Avila had been scheduled for trial Oct. 14 in Clark County Superior Court No. 1 on two class A felony counts of child molesting and one count of class C felony child molesting.
Avila allegedly also gave the victim and her mother a sexually transmitted disease.
He was released because of a rule stating that a defendant cannot be held in jail more than six months without going to trial. Deputy Prosecutor Shelley Marble disagreed with the decision, arguing that Avila’s original trial had been postponed due to court congestion.
Avila’s ex-girlfriend and mother of the alleged victim said she was worried Avila would return to Indiana after being deported because he has family in the area. She said he returned after being deported once before.
As you can see, your report took none of the instances such as this into consideration and only used census information to determine its summary. The spin it tried to use to make you sheeple think it was a credible report, is rather hilarious. If you believe the report, I have a bridge to sell you.
Also note that the report does not take into account those held in local jails, only those held in Federal and State Prisons.
I can go on, but really feel no need to since you are still very new to this whole immigration argument, as you use and state reports that have already been shown to be incorrect or what is also known as only giving a portion of the information.
Liquid,
You spout your ludicrous accusations against Ramirez with no proof, yet you opine for Piekarsky minimizing his culpability.
As Dave pointed out to you, pain medications provided to Ramirez when he was hospitalized may be accountable for what you term the benzo drugs. How on earth do you jump to your conclusions! Ridiculous!
Additionally, the very words of officer Burke provide additional eye witness to the heinous attack received by the many drunken football player attacker.
Piekarsky and the other attackers should be held fully accountable for their murderous crimes and serve, at a minimum, 10 years in Prison!
Liquidmicro said...
Across the street, Burke, the retired Philly cop, heard the "F word, slurs and Mexican this and that" for a few minutes, she recalled in an interview at her home.
Burke heard a high-pitched female voice screaming, "Stop kicking him, stop beating him," she said.
She called for an ambulance, and when she looked outside, she saw a group of youths in a circle and heard the thuds of kicking. Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez.
By the time she went out into the street, Burke said, she saw a young man emitting what cops call the "death rattle," the labored breathing that often precedes death. Ramirez was foaming at the mouth, his body convulsing so feverishly that "he was bouncing off the ground."
November 17, 2008 5:50 PM
My heart goes out to the Ramirez family, his mother, his children and his fiancee. Mr. Ramirez is Dead because of the attackers. His children are without a father! The attackers should face the FULLEST Penalty of the law!
Liquid,
You are getting desperate with your attacks against Latinos!
Shameful!
Liquid said...
Hispanics get a free pass every day, while you still fail to comprehend the actual events and lay blame to others because they don't agree with your point of view.
Dee said...
Liquid,
You are getting desperate with your attacks against Latinos!
Is that like your attacks against Anglos??
"We also need to solve the sexual predator crimes. (e.g. white middle aged men)
We also need to solve the serial murderer crimes. (e.g. BTK, Bundy, Gacy, etc)"
Nothing like a little racism on your part to get things started, no??
Get over your sanctimonious, self righteous soap box. You only show compassion for your own ethnic likeness, yet when pointed out the heinous crimes perpetrated by your ethnic kind also, you become defensive. If you can't talk with any intelligent discourse, whats the point?? You are blinded by your own ethnic, racial prejudice. Get over it already, or is it you like the 'victim' mentality and take full advantage of it??
Yea, right, Burk was an eye witness..."Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez."
She only heard the cries of Mrs Garcia and little Dillman, and saw Ramirez convulsing on the ground.
Why do you think the Prosecution offered a plea bargain with only 10 months in county jail?? When you can answer that, you might be able to understand the lack of your so-called evidence.
Again you fail to 'grasp the concept' of what it is I have said. I am for the 'rule of law' meaning that it is the law that is trying this case. I have stated many, many times, that the boys are at fault and so is Ramirez. I have stated the boys should go to prison for some time, many, many times. I have stated how and why, yet you still spin to accuse me of standing up for the 'boys' when all I am doing is pointing to the facts of the case, and allowing justice to do its job, while you demand justice, even if it puts someone in prison for a crime that you believe happened only your way based on your assumptions.
You lack the capability of arguing the points, you fall back to "w'always me", my poor, poor, ethnic kind, they can never do any wrong, they are perfect, we are the "We the People", crap.
Of course Officer Burke was a witness to the attack.
Your ears are clearly DEAF to your ears! Try to HEAR what she HEARD:
Across the street, Burke, the retired Philly cop, HEARD the "F WORD, SLURS and MEXICAN this and that" for a few minutes, she recalled in an interview at her home.
Burke HEARD a high-pitched female voice screaming, "STOP KICKING HIM, STOP BEATING HIM," she said.
She called for an ambulance, and when she looked outside, she SAW a group of YOUTHS IN A CIRCLE and HEARD the THUDS of KICKING. Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez.
By the time she went out into the street, Burke said, she saw a young man emitting what cops call the "DEATH RATTLE," the labored breathing that often precedes death. RAMIREZ WAS FOAMING at the mouth, his BODY CONVULSING so feverishly that "he was bouncing off the ground."
Garcias Eye Witness testimony:
"We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like kicking him and kicking him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they kicked him like in the left side of his head so hard that that’s what killed him."
Fellow Football Player Lawson´s eye witness testimony:
"According to Lawson, another teen, Brian Scully, who has not been charged, said to the girl, ''Isn't it a little late for you to be out?''The girl didn't answer, but Ramirez replied in Spanish, and Scully replied, ''This is Shenandoah, this is America, go back to Mexico,'' and used racial slurs. The two began fighting, Lawson said.Donchak hurried to join in, Lawson testified. Ramirez went down and the others stood around him, kicking him to the head and torso, Lawson said. But it was after Ramirez got up, while fighting with Donchak, that Lawson said Walsh ran up and sucker-punched him in the face.Ramirez fell to the ground with such force his head bounced off the macadam, leaving him unconscious. Then Piekarsky administered a FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD, Lawson said."
Liquid,
You dont know this.
You dont know what the prosecution offered.
You only have hearsay evidence from an obviously biased person from Voice of the People named Turtle who wrote an article for their site.
You have no CLUE what the prosecution said.
I posted his vile article to show what the other side is saying!
Liquidmicro said...
Why do you think the Prosecution offered a plea bargain with only 10 months in county jail?? When you can answer that, you might be able to understand the lack of your so-called evidence.
Dee said...
Garcias Eye Witness testimony:
"We were trying to wake him up, and the kids are still like kicking him and kicking him. And somebody—I don’t know who, but they kicked him like in the left side of his head so hard that that’s what killed him."
This stands out "I don’t know who", so then who was it?? By his own and other boys interrogations it was Piekarsky. The act of the kick is nothing more than the charge of assault.
This PROVES you only believe the ANTI arguments and references! And always discount the testimony and views you oppose!
Dee said...
Of course Officer Burke was a witness to the attack.
She already stated she witnessed nothing, only that she heard screams and slurs and saw Ramirez convulsing.
Of course Officer Burke was a witness to the attack.
Your ears are clearly DEAF to your ears! Try to HEAR what she HEARD:
Across the street, Burke, the retired Philly cop, HEARD the "F WORD, SLURS and MEXICAN this and that" for a few minutes, she recalled in an interview at her home.
Burke HEARD a high-pitched female voice screaming, "STOP KICKING HIM, STOP BEATING HIM," she said.
She called for an ambulance, and when she looked outside, she SAW a group of YOUTHS IN A CIRCLE and HEARD the THUDS of KICKING. Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez.
By the time she went out into the street, Burke said, she saw a young man emitting what cops call the "DEATH RATTLE," the labored breathing that often precedes death. RAMIREZ WAS FOAMING at the mouth, his BODY CONVULSING so feverishly that "he was bouncing off the ground."
Dee said...
This PROVES you only believe the ANTI arguments and references! And always discount the testimony and views you oppose!
No, I have taken all the witness accounts and the testimony into consideration, from what I have read, and what i point out you fail to take into consideration, is Mrs. Garcias statement of :But he was so mad, he wasn’t really talking to us. And those kids kept yelling stuff, and he went back, and the kids turned around, and the fight started again.
He went back and the fight started again, culpability on the part of Ramirez. You keep denying it. Sorry its right there in black and white, from her own mouth, Ramirez own friends statement.
Again you don't answer my question at all:
Why do you think the Prosecution offered a plea bargain with only 10 months in county jail??
Burke said that she did not see the youths kicking Ramirez.
She witnessed nothing!! She heard many things as I have already pointed out. She is only a witness to what she heard, not what she did not see.
Liquid,
Anyone reading your posts realizes you are minimizing what occurred. The man is dead. Those drunken jocks surrounded him, sucker punched him and kicked his body and his head as he lay on the ground.
This was a GANG beating and Piekarsky, according to Lawson, delivered the FINAL BLOW!
Hearing is a form of witnessing. That is why she called 911.
Recorded testimony is often used.
911 tapes are often used.
She said she heard the kicks.
She saw the drunken jocks kicking him.
She heard their Racist Slurs!
She IS a WITNESS!
In response to the lack-of-evidence motion, prosecutors submitted as evidence only a transcript from the teens' Aug. 18 preliminary hearing and two supplemental physicians reports. Baldwin also gave prosecutors 10 days to file written responses to the motions.
The teens originally were charged with first- and second-degree murder, but a district judge dismissed those counts after the preliminary hearing, saying there wasn't sufficient evidence to support them.
Well, I guess we will all know the outcome in the next week. What stands out is that the prosecution only submitted as evidence, a transcript from the teens' Aug. 18 preliminary hearing and two supplemental physicians reports. Basically very little if any new evidence.
"The man is dead. Those drunken jocks surrounded him, sucker punched him and kicked his body and his head as he lay on the ground."
Neither myself, nor anybody else has ever denied this. We have all said these boys should do time, the problem comes down to evidence, which is going to diminish the charges against these boys and lessen their time in jail, if they end up in jail at all.
Again:
She witnessed nothing!! She heard many things as I have already pointed out. She is ONLY a 'witness' to 'what she heard', NOT what she did not see.
Liquid,
More spin.
Here is what the article actually said. The ACCUSED ASKED for dismissal of the charges due to WHAT THEY SAID was lack of evidence and to separate the charges. It is obvious THE COURT will NOT DISMISS THE CHARGES and the prosector felt that the previous testimony WAS SUFFICIENT to go to trial. The only question is, will the trials be separated and that is what the judge is deciding. But thanks for keeping the needed focus on this case so the world can see that people on your side are hoping to minimize the charges:
"The three are charged in the July 12 beating of Luis Ramirez, 25, a Mexican who had lived in the borough for six years. ACCORDING TO THE COURT DOCUMENTS AND TESTIMONY AT PREVIOUS HEARINGS, the three and another teen had spent the day drinking in a wooded area and at a Shenandoah fire company party when they encountered Ramirez with his fiancee's sister on a dark street.
A fight broke out, and as Ramirez battled with Donchak, Walsh RAN UP AND PUNCHED HIM, KNOCKING HIM DOWN SO HARD HIS HEAD BOUNCED OFF THE PAVEMENT, LEAVING HIM UNCONSCIOUS. Then Piekarsky GAVE A FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD, authorities say. Ramirez DIED two days later of his INJURIES.
In RESPONSE to the lack-of-evidence motion, prosecutors submitted as EVIDENCE only a TRANSCRIPT from the teens' Aug. 18 preliminary hearing and two supplemental physicians reports. Baldwin also gave prosecutors 10 days to file written responses to the motions."
Racial Profiling which occurs due to the restrictionist laws being imposed in many parts of the country, including Mariscopa County and Arpaios suppressions sweeps, and other restrictionist laws as in Tulsa, NC, and in Hazleton. The results are, as the FBI reports, the increase in Latino RACE HATE Crimes, many against Latino Citizens as in the most recent case!
What is Racial Profiling?
By definition, Racial Profiling occurs when race is used, to any degree, as a basis to target people, whether by law enforcement or by individuals.
The ICE Raids, Suppression Sweeps and the Angry ANTI Immigration Reform rhetoric have create a Hate Filled Atmosphere in parts of our country making it dangerous to "Walk While Brown!"
As we have witnessed, and what the FBI is reporting, some violent, domestic terrorists are searching for anyone that to them, look "Mexican" or their perception of an "illegal immigrant."
All they look for is BROWN SKIN! It does not matter whether the person is a citizen or not. It doesn´t matter if they are from Mexico, Central America, Cuban, Puerto Rican, South American, Native American, Italian, Asian, Middle Eastern or from the Pacific Islands.
As long as you are brown, you are Mexican to them and they hate you!
are you suggesting that we put our immigration laws on hold and the enforcement of them just in case an immigration reform is passed in the future?
there is no controlling the hostility and feelings that americans have towards those in our country illegally but it is only a few that act out those feelings in a violent manner. usually they are people who are unstable anyway. it is the same thing with violent crimes on anyone. those who commit them are already mentally off before they commit them. we cannot control other people's feelings and actions. all that can be done is if it results in crime is to allow our judicial system to take it from there.
John,
We have had a complete range of enforcements towards the immigration civil violations, from zero enforcement, to actual treatment as a civil violation (if caught, release across the border), to the restrictionist laws and associated racial profiling and anger unleased we are seeing today.
The FBI tells us since the current approach has gone into effect over the last 6 years, Hate crimes towards latinos have increased significantly and Hate Group members have increased likewise.
And we CAN do something about HATE Crimes. We can ensure the perpetrators are punished to the FULLEST Extent of the Law!
john said...
are you suggesting that we put our immigration laws on hold and the enforcement of them just in case an immigration reform is passed in the future?
there is no controlling the hostility and feelings that americans have towards those in our country illegally but it is only a few that act out those feelings in a violent manner. usually they are people who are unstable anyway. it is the same thing with violent crimes on anyone. those who commit them are already mentally off before they commit them. we cannot control other people's feelings and actions. all that can be done is if it results in crime is to allow our judicial system to take it from there.
and we should continue to enforce our immigration laws as i said. we can't stop enforcing them because "some" people are violent in nature.
i agree however, when violence enters the picture that those people should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
FINALLY! an ANTI shows some empathy for the victim:
"i agree however, when violence enters the picture that those people should be punished to the fullest extent of the law." - John
Thank you, John! I agree with you.
Luis Eduardo Ramirez, descansa en paz hermano.
Like Dee, my heart goes out to you and your family: your mother, your fiancee and your three beautiful children.
Analisa
This is a very horrible crime and it is very sad to think that this is going to be unpunished.
I congratulate you on this website and the pictures of the brutal murder.
I have a website RACIALITY.COM on Racial Relations. And I want to work to publish these heinous crimes. ( like the Long Island, New York brutal beating and murder in recent days ).
And I am going to inform on the exploits of the Ku Klux Klan.
This is my site
Raciality.com
And on Youth and Politics :
Milenials.com
Vicente Duque
Yes! Fіnally ѕomeone writes about keyword.
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