Friday, December 12, 2008

Dobbs, Republicans and ANTIS Vote Against American Unions and Workers And Don´t Make Sense!!

I am so very angry at Republicans right now!
Perhaps I should not even write this blog! I try to wait a certain period of time when I am angry before I write a blog, but I have to write this, and I am writing it now!
Republicans are so short sighted. They are pandering to the "Lou Dobbs", ANTIs in their ranks and refuting the UAW and other long standing union members. The Republicans are demonstrating how archaic they are!
I hate Lou Dobbs. Tonight he had a group of idiots on his show ALL bashing Union Members!!
Before I go on, I want everyone to know I AM VERY Pro-UNION!!
My Beloved Father was a Union Man!! He believed in the Union!
Together the Unions and Workers were able to request and receive a working man´s (person) wage, union benefits, and retirement benefits. They were NOT asking for the multi millions the Wall Street Bankers ask for. All they asked for was a livable wage, benefits, and a retirement package once they had 30 years. I love unions. I don´t think that is too much to ask for.
Unions were why Michigan survived! My Father was Union. My Brothers were union. My Father in law was union! Most Everyone in Michigan is PRO Union and most Everyone owns USA produced cars!
Today, the Republicans, listening to their Republican and ANTI constituents, voted against the bailout for American owned Companies. They voted against Unions. They voted for Foreign Owned Car Companies with Non Union factories located in their states.
I ask, how can these REPUBLICANS refute the Union?!? (WHY, Because Foreign Auto Makers Reside in their State?!? And Pay Big $$ to their PACS!) How can they turn down this bill?!? Why were the Republicans so willing to pass the bailout for the RICH BANKERS ON WALL STREET?!? Those who have those Fancy Recognition Parties in Million Dollar Hotels?!? And Multi Million Dollar Bonus Packages for their CEOs and other Officers?!? All Driving Foreign Cars!!
I believe in the Working Man! Unions are good!
Pay the Million Dollar Business Owners?! But Delete the Unions?! Republicans DO NOT MAKE SENSE!!!
Reference Documents:

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

What has being opposed to illegal immigration (anti's) have to do with the bailout of the auto industry? They are two seperate issues. Sure many Republicans are anti-illegal immigration and opposed to a bailout also but why are you trying to tie these two different issues together? Why even mention illegal immigration in the same sentence with bailouts?
There are both Democrats and Republicans that are anti-illegal immigration but are in favor of bailouts and vice versa. They two issues don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Liquidmicro said...

Look to the pork that was in the bill. Raises for judges and various other enticing handouts. If anything the Conservatives were against the pork that obviously did not belong in the bill. Besides the bill wasn't all that good anyway.

Liquidmicro said...

"Why were the Republicans so willing to pass the bailout for the RICH BANKERS ON WALL STREET?!?"

I suggest you go back and look at the voting for the Wall Street Bail Out, It was passed due to the Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Also, DEMOCRATS are the ones who got us into all this financial mess. Gee, thanks Demorats!@@$#@$#

The Arizonian said...

While I have no general problem with unions, I despise the UAW.

The average wage of a UAW member, with benefits, is roughly $73/hr.

And then you wonder why the industry isn't holding up....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122140643AAjx9qb

The Arizonian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Arizonian said...

Or better yet, Bank of America gets $15 billion, and then decide to lay of 35,000 employees......

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasDealsNews/idUSTRE4BB59F20081212

The Arizonian said...

Besides, I've been really disappointed of some of the crap the American Auto Industry has been putting out.

What happened to quality?
The kept the price, but not the quality.

I was poking around, and saw something funny:
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Vs-Toyota-Wages-And-Benefits.aspx


GM Vs. Toyota Wages And Benefits
By The Associated Press
Manufacturing.Net - December 12, 2008

DETROIT (AP) --Hourly wages for United Auto Workers laborers at General Motors Corp. factories actually are almost equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.

The difference is in benefits, with the unionized factories having far higher costs.

GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69 including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.

The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.


My personal Favorite comes in the 'comment' section:
Auto Companies 12/12/2008 12:02:00 PM
You would think the auto industry would produce vehicles that aren't recalled every time you turn around since they get paid way too much and have benefits better than anyone. The foreign car market at least produces vehicles with less overall costs--pay and benefits---that aren't recalled all of the time and are more economical and last much longer with virtually no maintenance than the American market. What a shame! We have to blame ourselves for allowing our government, unions and their following, etc. get us to this point in the economy.

Anonymous said...

The big 3 are shutting down for several weeks through January and guess what those "poor" union workers get - ALMOST FULL PAY ! And they want my taxpayer money????

Anonymous said...

Up till now The UAW got free LIFETIME retiree medical insurance. Well, actully beginning the first of 09 the poor babies did make a concession; they're actully going to have to join medicare like the rest of us BUT they are getting $300 additional in pension benefits to cover the cost.

And, they want MY taxpayer money???

Anonymous said...

Lookie here - UAW members get free legal services for things the rest of us pay for. Heck, they don't even pay real estate closing fees !

And they want MY taxpayer money?

Æ


"Full legal services for such things as wills, adoptions, consumer complaints and real estate closings; these services are provided at no cost to you. In some situations, you also may receive full services for an appeal of a decision

Æ


Office work for matters such as divorce and traffic and criminal offenses; you pay no costs for these services"

Dee said...

Anon,
Perhaps 2 different issues, but they are manyf of the same people! I go to the ANTI sites and when they are not bemoaning Immigration issues, they are ranting about "no bailout for the UAW", "cut union wages", "no socialism." ranting on and on. The same people are ANTI Gay, ANTI minority and ANTI Freedom of Religion.
You tell me why these same so called Conservative sites and people like Dobbs and Limbaugh and Beck and Hannity ALL SAY THE SAME THING?!?


Anonymous said...
What has being opposed to illegal immigration (anti's) have to do with the bailout of the auto industry? They are two seperate issues.

Dee said...

Anon,
Wrong! It was the de-regulation bills sponsored and pushed by Republicans!



Anonymous said...
Also, DEMOCRATS are the ones who got us into all this financial mess. Gee, thanks Demorats!@@

Dee said...

AZ,
This information is so slanted. That is why I provide this article, "A Tale of 2 Auto Plants." It compares a GM plant vs a Toyota plant. In a nutshell it explains the salaries are about the same for both, approx $30 an hour at full pay, starting at $14 per hour. The difference are Health and Retirement benefits. And, it isnt the current that impacts this figure but all those currently on retirement. In other words, Toyota, being new to the US, has no retirees, plus does not provide for insurance or retirement pay.
This is what most Americans want. Insurance and Retirement included in their benefits. Most people with desk jobs have them. The Fat Cats have them plus all of their perks and bonuses and windfall profits! So now you fault the hard working autoworkers for wanting the same? How UnAmerican?



The Arizonian said...
While I have no general problem with unions, I despise the UAW.

The average wage of a UAW member, with benefits, is roughly $73/hr.

Dee said...

Az,
This is wrong on so many levels. The Fat Cats get richer while the workers get tossed to the streets.


The Arizonian said...
Or better yet, Bank of America gets $15 billion, and then decide to lay of 35,000 employees......

Dee said...

AZ,
This commenter has a screw loose! How dare he blame the unions when he does not even buy American! I always drive American cars. I drive Ford or Chrysler. My son drives Chevrolet. Always, always American!! My Ford is 12 years old and runs great! My Chrysler is 5 years old and runs great!


AZ said...
from comment section
"The foreign car market at least produces vehicles with less overall costs--pay and benefits---...We have to blame ourselves for allowing our government, unions and their following, etc. get us to this point in the economy."

Dee said...

Anon,
You have never heard of paid vacation or paid Holiday time off? Most businesses pay this.
Auto workers work harder than most. Think of the Fat Cats on Wall Street!


Anonymous said...
The big 3 are shutting down for several weeks through January and guess what those "poor" union workers get - ALMOST FULL PAY ! And they want my taxpayer money????

Dee said...

Anon,
You are not making sense. You sit there benefitting from free Medicare yet you chastise the hard working auto workers for their benefits? UnAmerican!


Anonymous said...
Up till now The UAW got free LIFETIME retiree medical insurance. Well, actully beginning the first of 09 the poor babies did make a concession; they're actully going to have to join medicare like the rest of us BUT they are getting $300 additional in pension benefits to cover the cost.

Dee said...

There are such far reaching effects from Republican´s rejection of the Unions and their insistence they file for bankruptcy.

Read this report:
"A new poll by Rasmussen Reports of consumer found that 51 percent said they would not buy a car from a manufacturer who is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization."

Anonymous said...

Anon,
Wrong Dee, it started with DEMOCRAT Bill Clinton and his passage of the CRA!

Wrong! It was the de-regulation bills sponsored and pushed by Republicans!



Anonymous said...
Also, DEMOCRATS are the ones who got us into all this financial mess. Gee, thanks Demorats!@@

Liquidmicro said...

"Dee said...

There are such far reaching effects from Republican´s rejection of the Unions and their insistence they file for bankruptcy."


You must have missed, in your own link, Some of the loudest opponents to helping Detroit were senators whose states are home to car factories of foreign brands, including Sen. Richard C. Shelby (D-Ala.), who has Mercedes, Hyundai and Honda plants in his state but no Big Three facilities.

Something about the (D-Ala.) after his name!!

This goes as Liberal vs Conservative, much more than Democrat vs Republican.

Anonymous said...

Has it ever occured to you Dee that Dobbs, etc. speak for themselves and not the rest of us conservatives on everything? You do like to lump all conservatives in one basket on all issues, don't you?

I have never heard Dobbs say anything that would indicate an anti-religion, anti-minority, anti-gay viewpoint on his part.

Anonymous said...

I am not the other anon but medicare isn't free Dee. It is deducted from our paychecks every week. Even those on SS have over $90.00 a month deducted from their SS check every month to cover medicare and it doesn't cover dental. That would be an even higher deduction out of their SS checks. Get your facts straight.

Vicente Duque said...

Obama against Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh :

On May 22 of 2008 and Near Fort Lauderdale, Obama lashed out at critics of illegal immigrants and migrant workers.

Obama attacked conservative media personalities Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh for their militant stand on immigration policy.

Obama suggested that conservative cable TV hosts who routinely rail against illegal immigrants are partly to blame for an increase in hate crimes against Hispanic people.

"A certain segment has basically been feeding a kind of xenophobia," Mr. Obama said at a fundraiser in Palm Beach, Fla. "If you have people like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ginning things up, it's not surprising that would happen."

More Information here :

Raciality.com

Vicente Duque

Anonymous said...

Most Americans don't need anyone in the media to talk about the negativities of illegal immigration in order to form an opinion on their own. Most Americans respect the rule of law. People who resort to violence from reporting the FACTS about illegal immigration are already pre-ordained to be violent in nature anyway.

Obama should be more concerned about securing our borders and respecting the wishes of the majority of Americans than worrying about a few nutcases out there getting fired up about reporting FACTS. That is what we have a ciminal justice system for.

Anonymous said...

Shall we restrict freedom of speech and censor the media for reporting the FACTS because of a few nutcases out there?

ultima said...

The UAW wants to put this all on the senators who voted against the bailout. Had the Union been willing to move up the date at which the compensation of its members would achieve parity with their competitors, the money for the loan would already be in the big three's bank. They want the taxpayers to help them out but are unwilling to do their share. The bailout talks failed because of the recalcitrance of the UAW officials. Having said this, I recognize that the big three have a bigger retirement and health insurance obligation than the foreign manufacturers in the South. Part of the solution to that problem is to bring both active workers and retirees retirement and health insurance into parity sooner rather than later. With that agreement, the road to relief would be much smoother. In the backs of the UAW's mind is the idea that if they can temporize long enough they will be able to unionize the plants in the South and bring the compensation of those workers up rather bring the compensation of the plants in the North down. This is not the time for that kind of shenanigan if the UAW wants a settlement before Christmas. This is not the time for its strike mentality. It won't work with people out of work looking for jobs.

Once an accelerated parity plan is in place one of the foci of the bailout could be to relieve the big three of some of their remaining Parity retiree obligations to assure that post-loan the big three would indeed be competitive and not be back with hat in hand for more money later, to the tune of $125 billion by some estimates.

When in a bargaining session John L. Lewis was asked what he wanted for his UMW union. His simple answer was, "More!" The UAW followed that same tactic not realizing what they were doing to the competitiveness of the company, forcing them to produce more gas guzzlers because they provided the short run higher profits needed to finance the unions' $73/hour compensation. You'd think at this juncture they would see the light or at least a glimmer of their past sins and really pitch in to keep America working.

Unions have done a lot of good but there is such a thing as too much of good thing. It drives jobs overseas and south of the border and destroys American industrial capacity.

ultima said...

As with the illegal alien problem, the solution to the auto industry problem is simple and straightforward. I believe management has gotten the message but the UAW hasn't.

The only thing lacking in both cases is the will to do what is needed.

Obama wants to repair our infrastructure. Good idea but let's make sure the jobs created go to citizens to keep them out of the bread lines and the soup kitchens. That requirement has to be part and parcel of any infrastructure funding given to the states.

ultima said...

It was the neolibs who got most of the campaign contributions from FM^2 and who approved of the idea of insured loans for those who were almost certain to default. That is where the problem began. It's solution is not so clear. No one knows whether Keynesian pump priming will actually work with a WW II to hasten the recovery.

The Arizonian said...

Dee Muttered:
"There are such far reaching effects from Republican´s rejection of the Unions and their insistence they file for bankruptcy."

Maybe it is because they can't manage a corporation? Just saying maybe.

I opposed the Wall ST. bailout as well, and so did my congressman......

"AZ,
This commenter has a screw loose! How dare he blame the unions when he does not even buy American!"


Maybe because his truck was made in America by Americans.....

The unions had their place and purpose in history, and I thank them for that. But the Unions, much like Wall St., have become bloated and greedy, leading to their downfall.

Ex: California.
Just look at their union involvement, and the cost of living.
What do you expect to happen when a company is expected to pay $15/hr. to grocery store cashiers?

The Arizonian said...

Wal-mart is an 'American company' and yet some 80-90% of their inventory is made in foreign countries.....

I refuse to shop at Wal-mart for many reasons, but this is one....

Anonymous said...

Here's your "free" medicare, Dee.

http://questions.medicare.gov/cgi-bin/medicare.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2100

I "thought" you were a researcher.

Dee said...

Ulty,
What is this with the union busting Fat Cat congress members? As my articles and studies indicate, Automakers at GM and Toyota are ALREADY at wage parity!!! The difference is medical and retirement benefits, especially the benefits of those currently retired. What do you want to do, cut the benefits of the retired union members? cut the healthcare benefits of the workers? End their retirement benefits? In other words, bust the unions?



ultima said...
The UAW wants to put this all on the senators who voted against the bailout. Had the Union been willing to move up the date at which the compensation of its members would achieve parity with their competitors, the money for the loan would already be in the big three's bank.

Dee said...

This is what bothers me most. Those FAT CAT UNION BUSTING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS sitting back in their FAT CAT CHAIRS, with their fully loaded health and retirement benefits, with all of their PAC perks and crony gifts, with their FAT CAT Business Cronies like Halliburton and Blackwater, GEO Services, Toyota, with multi million dollar bonuses each year, with their fancy million dollar recognition parties in exclusive resorts, who pay their big dollar donations to the FAT CAT PACS!!! They are the ones that are pushing all of this Union Busting!!

Dee said...

AZ,
How many times do I have to say this. Wages are at parity.
The difference is your side keeps loading in the retirement benefits of RETIREES into the calculation!!
That is WRONG!
The only way to be in parity is to cut health benefits and to cut retiree benefits of those working and those already retired. THAT IS IRRATIONAL!!!
UNION BUSTERS!!!

Dee said...

Anon,
I recognize there is co-pay for Medicare and there are plans you can purchase to further offset the costs. My mother was on one before she passed.
Currently the GM Healthplans require a co-pay.
My point to the other ANON is Medicare and SSI are so called "socaialist freebies" our country provides to the elderly. If you are ok with this, then WHY do you chastise the Autoworkers for their Healthcare and Retirement benefits that they worked so hard to receive?
AND Why aren´t you calling for the end of million dollar CEO salaries and party perks they all receive?
Or the end to PACs and Lobbyists and political perks?

The Arizonian said...

Dee said...
"AZ,
How many times do I have to say this. Wages are at parity.
The difference is your side keeps loading in the retirement benefits of RETIREES into the calculation!!
That is WRONG!
The only way to be in parity is to cut health benefits and to cut retiree benefits of those working and those already retired. THAT IS IRRATIONAL!!!
UNION BUSTERS!!!"


First when did I say this?

Second the only 'fat cats' that seem to be surviving at this moment are union leaders....
Let's see union leaders take a pay cut to help their members.....

ultima said...

Retiree costs are real. How do you expect GM to sell any cars if there is an extra $2,000 built into the price because of the retiree costs? Until there is compensation (wages and benefits) parity the big three will not be able to survive. So what is your solution to that problem? Cut benefits or lose jobs?

ultima said...

I would certainly not defend the fat cats in the unions or in the company management. Some of the latter have already agreed to work for $1 per year; where is the quid pro quo from union bosses? As I indicated above this whole impasse is the work of the union bosses. A compromise on the parity issue and the money would be in the bank. Of course, moving the parity date does not solve the basic problem of continuing retiree costs both current and prospective. At least the prospective retirement cost must be reduced to parity immediately. Then maybe we can focus how to solve the retiree problem. I am not in favor of any major ex post facto reduction in the retirement pay and benefits of folks who are now past their earning years. Of course, there may be some among them who retired at 48 and went on to do different work or may still be working. Those people should be considered a special case.

There may be some anti-union sentiment involved after all why would a Republican want to support a union that throws all its support to the neolibs?

ultima said...

I agree the PACs have gotten out of hand as evidenced by the amount of money Obama spent to get elected. It would be good if we could shut them all down but that's not possible without further campaign finance reform. I once thought that PACs could only address issues but I saw plenty of PAC ads in the last election that represented personal attacks on candidates/

Dee said...

Ulty,
My solution is to do what we did in the 70s.
. Insist everyone BUY AMERICAN through ad campaigns! Make people ashamed to drive foreign cars.

Additionally:
. Make sure the cars built are Quality Built! (I think most are)

Economize by:
1. End the multi million dollar CEO salaries!
2. Sell their private jets
3. No more million dollar recognition programs or perks for their upper echelon.
4. Ensure they modernize their operations and build efficient plants in the US so they can economize and save 1/3 of their costs. (This they can learn from the Toyota plant in San Antonio.)



ultima said....
So what is your solution to that problem? Cut benefits or lose jobs?

Anonymous said...

What people fail to understand is big business and politicians want to keep the middle and lower class right where we are. The Gov. gave 700 million to save banks and lending services from going under, I would like to know of one person, just one who's home was saved from foreclosure! Yet when it comes time to pay for giving that money to the banks, who's taxes do you think will pay the majority of loan, ours. The politicians we elect are not from the working class, just once I would love to see someone who worked at GM or AT&T or a brick layer get voted into office, someone who knows what it is to have to worry about every penny.

Dee said...

Anon,
I agree. Please name yourself to differentiate yourself from the other anons.
Big Business and Politicians do want to keep the middle and lower classes at bay.
NONE of the Bankers have been held accountable for the $700B bailout they received.
What are YOUR recommendations for what WE do about it??

Anonymous said...
What people fail to understand is big business and politicians want to keep the middle and lower class right where we are. The Gov. gave 700 million to save banks and lending services from going under, I would like to know of one person, just one who's home was saved from foreclosure! Yet when it comes time to pay for giving that money to the banks, who's taxes do you think will pay the majority of loan, ours. The politicians we elect are not from the working class, just once I would love to see someone who worked at GM or AT&T or a brick layer get voted into office, someone who knows what it is to have to worry about every penny.

merchantilist said...

There was more opposition to the "Wall Street Bailout" from Republicans than Democrats.
One tie between bail outs and anti-immigration is that underlying both support for both issues are attitudes toward honoring commitments and respect for law. Helping banks that assumed excessive risk and millions of law breaking immigrants is troublesome in this regard.
When supporting the cause of the illegals the UAW is doing a disservice to its members.

Page Hits