Thursday, December 4, 2008

Is Patchogue Medford High School A Breeding Ground of Hate Against Latinos?

During my usual research, I came across a Discussion Board discussing the Lucero Hate Crime Murder. I was appalled by what I read. Rockshow, a Patchogue student and acquaintance of Jeff Conroy and the “Caucasian Crew”, posted a number of comments about the situation at Patchogue-Medford Senior High School. Rockshow describes the hate filled atmosphere against ALL Latino students. He discusses the student supporters of the murdering “Caucausian Crew” and the disregard for the innocent Latino victim.
As much as I would like to believe this Hate Crime was about a few kids “gone wrong”, I am now realizing the problem is much worse than I earlier suspected. Based on Rockshow´s comments and on Jeff Conroy´s myspace, it appears the problem is much more severe. Apparently the problem is as many suspected. It is all encompassing across Long Island and perhaps, across the Northeast, and even across America. Has this hate been promoted, as many suspect, on the growing number of racist HATE Groups in America? if not, who else is breeding the hate? How do we Stop this Hate?? Can it be stopped?

Rockshows Comments (1st post the day after the murder):
“I'm F´n disgusted and outraged. These dumb ass kids who thought they were so gangster, took the life today of a man based only on the fact that he was a Mexican. I can't fucking believe this. All seven of these tools are your typical "wigger" aka white kid trying to act all gangster (lets totally forget that we all live in a suburb). I'm so infuriated. Not to mention all these stupid teen bxtches leaving them messages on there myspace like "I still love you!" and "FREE (insert name)" I can't even keep this rant going I'm just so upset over this. Tomorrow i have to go into a school filled with peers who are on their side. The side of F´n seven hateful teenage murderers. Half of these axxholes live less than a block from me. The only solace I can take from this is that these 7 F´rs will be paying for it in a jail cell. And it's still not good enough for me. This gangster kid mentality needs to F´n stop. I'm tired of the arrogance, I'm tired of the ignorance, the hate, the homophobia, the insecurity. I feel like if all these kids died in a fiery F´n plane crash tomorrow. They would not be missed.”

Rockshow posts the next day:
“In class today everyone was talking about these kids. (As one would expect) And I was surprised how many people are not as mad as I am. Nobody seems to care for that F´n 35 year old man who got killed. They all are just concerned with whether or not their friends will do time. Also I have an update to the story, just to further prove how stupid these F´n kids are. When the cop finally caught them an hour after the stabbing and he asked what they were up to, they confessed to "searching for a Mexican to attack". By saying it was at a specific race, they got themselves all adult charges. I hope this shxt doesn't get nationally huge, because I don't want these axxholes to make our town look like shxt.”
The discussion board goes off into a side conversation of the term “Wiggers.”
“No, it's short for "white nxgger." It's a white person "acting" "black." It's current manifestation is whites taking urban rap lingo and style as their own. But it's based on the stereotype that there's some proper way for white and black people to be. And mixing the two, or swapping one for the other, is somehow wrong.”
Rockshow later says,
“It just bothers me that a guy had to pay with his life because these 7 tools had something to prove. I don't want to say i blame the rap music for all these problems, but i think it desensitizes these F´n idiots to the point where they can brush off killing an innocent man. it's F´n insanity.”
“I'm not saying the musical taste of a person is 100% mind altering, but if you give a kid this music about constant killing and money, and they listen to it for years to the point where they dress as if they grew up in a ghetto, you don't think that has had an effect on a person? These are privileged white kids, acting like they grew up in a broke ass poor neighborhood, having to fight for what they've got. Meanwhile all their gangster ass clothes and items are paid for by their parents. So yeah, I think the music has effected these kids. They all have the same mentality, they all speak like these rappers, and they all worship frivolous things like money. They're conditioned. And i think its soured our F´n gene pool.”
“Turns out he was Ecuadorian by the way. But if you're wondering what it's like to be a mexican HERE, prepare to be hated just because you don't speak english, and if you do speak english, we wont know. Because we still wont be talking to you because you LOOK mexican. ““Obviously thats not how I feel personally, just a representation of my peers”
“Ugh. Patchogue Medford looks like shxt right now. I don't know about Medford, but Patchogue is full of so many residents in the 4th and 5th generations that try so hard to make it a better place. And I'm not surprised about the vandalism either. ““Once a public speaker on the issue of race said statistically ( and i don't know if he can back it up, but i believe it ) the slurs Nxgger and Jxw are thrown around more on long island than in anywhere in the country. Possibly Fag as well. Fxck this Island. I want to move to new england.”

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Seek help for your obsession, thanks.

Dave said...

Disturbing, but thanks. It's not an obsession, anonymous, this story is sad and threatening for all Brown People.

I feel a little bit better knowing there is at least one teen in their area who is outraged and questioning how this could happen.

Dee said...

Dave,
I agree. At least this one teen is raising questions and was appalled by the murder.
Besides the murder, what also saddens me is the next statement on Racial Profiling of all Brown people in the school,
"But if you're wondering what it's like to be a mexican HERE, prepare to be hated just because you don't speak english, and if you do speak english, we wont know. Because we still wont be talking to you because you LOOK mexican. ““Obviously thats not how I feel personally, just a representation of my peers”

Anonymous said...

I do believe these hate groups, who I don't condone will die down somewhat as the illegal invasion from Mexico slows down due to the poor economy in the U.S. Let's hope that an all out amnesty of any kind is not given to anyone who entered this country illegally.
Secure our borders no matter what, President Obama.

yave said...

I will always see Long Island through the lens of the film L.I.E., which I saw a few weeks after moving to NYC, right around 9/11. It doesn't paint a pretty picture. Also the Garden City USCIS office is one of the closest things to hell on earth I've encountered. I'll breathe a sigh of relief when the District Director shutters it and moves the operation west. Like at the end of Poltergeist when the family discovers the house was built on a Native American graveyard ...

Analisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Analisa said...

My heart goes out to this young man and all Latinos who live in communities like this.

You know, my father tells me that there was a movement against racism in France during the 1980s. It was sparked by some pretty vicious attacks on immigrants by "skin head" groups and the rise of the National Front (an rabidly anti-immigrant party). The movement, S.O.S. Racisme, grew over time and was joined by actors, artists and intellectuals. The slogan of the movement was "Touche pas a mon poet!" or Don't touch my buddy! All over France, people wore buttons with this slogan on their lapels. That's when the hatemongers finally understood that people weren't going to stand for hate in their communities. I really think we need a movement like this in America. We have done this before. Following a series of racist attacks that broke out in Billings, Montana, Americans banded together in cities all across America and spoken out to say "Not In Our Town!" If we truly care about lessening hate and division in our country, we should consider making some statement to show that we stand with the victims.

The Arizonian said...

Interesting blog post.....

It's interesting that this 'Rockshow' chose to use the word "wigger". For someone upset about racism, he seems to want to perpetuate it to some extent.

This was poitned out even by own of the forum moderators 'Earth Mommy':
'*pinchs brow* Yes, Virginia, they're calling them "wiggers" and complaining that the "wiggers" are racist.'

Did you know that own of these assailants was 'latino'? (Jose Pacheco, 17)
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/hate.crime.bias.2.863049.html

Dee said...

Yave,
I am in fear for our children! There is so much hatred! So much blaming!
We need to get along! We need to have some degree of Humanity and Love for our fellow man!
All of these scenarios break my heart.
What can each of us to to make this world a better place?
Think of Adam and Eve. did they perceive boundaries? We have to learn just to get along!

yave said...
I will always see Long Island through the lens of the film L.I.E., which I saw a few weeks after moving to NYC, right around 9/11. It doesn't paint a pretty picture. Also the Garden City USCIS office is one of the closest things to hell on earth I've encountered. I'll breathe a sigh of relief when the District Director shutters it and moves the operation west. Like at the end of Poltergeist when the family discovers the house was built on a Native American graveyard ...

Dee said...

Yave,
Is there a link to the film L.I.E.?

Dave said...

Analisa,
I like the idea of a national movement or slogan campaign that people can get behind and support. I noticed that some in Patchogue were wearing buttons that read "I am Marcel Lucero" which I thought was very effective. So, something like that, but on a national level that people can relate to. What kind of slogan would you say? Can we get a major organization to help back it and fund it?

Dee said...

Analisa and Dave,
Analisa, thank you for sharing your Dad´s experience.
I also like the button idea.
There is currently a campaign that has just started called "We can stop the Hate."

Dont think they have buttons yet.

http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/

yave said...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242587/

Analisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Analisa said...

Dave and Dee,

I love your ideas of wearing buttons that say: "I am Marcel Lucero" or "We can stop the hate." I'm going to see where I can find something like this or make one up myself. But it's probably a good idea to hook up with organizations who are already working on this. Thanks for that link, Dee. :~)

Another thing that occurred to me is that we should do more to humanize the image of undocumented peoples and Latinos. I was thinking that not so long ago, it was considered cool to be Latino. I forget when it was - around 2000or something (?). I'm sure you remember when everyone was taking salsa classes and listening to the Buena Vista Social Club and all styles of Latin music. So, what happened? It appears that the bigots on talk radio and cable TV were able to frame the terms of the debate, along with the public's perception of Latinos. We need to find a way to counter this ugly campaign somehow. You know, we would never seen the day where a black man could be president if the public's perception of African Americans hadn't gone through a sea change over the years. Hollywood prepared us for the possiblity of a black president by portraying positive images of black presidents.

Now, I've been thinking that it's good that we're all talking. However, I don't see much hope for changing the minds of extremists on this issue. I'm a writer, so I tend to think that the answers will come from artists and other creative types who are willing to challenge these negative images and stereotypes. I'm attempting to write my first novel now - the hero is a man who enters the United States without papers (my boyfriend is the model). He is fleeing persecution and anonymous death threats that he received in his war-torn homeland - this is the reality for many undocumented peoples. So, I'm very happy to see that there are many films coming out now that humanize the undocumented: Under the Same Moon; The Visiter; Crossing Over.

Anonymous said...

Law breakers always have a negative image. It goes with the territory, duh.

Most illegals are not coming from a war torn country, they are coming from Mexico.

No one is saying that illegals aren't human anymore than a bank robber isn't a human being. But some humans do break laws and that is what the objection is.

Dave said...

Anonymous,

The emphasis on people breaking the law, is what I object to.

Yes, law breakers have a negative image, and especailly so, if you choose that as their sole identity of the person. Especially so, also, if you choose to ignore the poverty in countries like Mexico, that we, as a country, with our unfair trade policies, like NAFTA, helped to create in the first place. You take away all the factors at play that cause people to migrate here, and blame it solely on the person, as if they committed some horrendous crime for wanting to better their lives.

To illustrate this unfair definition of a human being as "illegal" or "criminal", what would you say if, because you ran a red light back in 1998, you will forever be known as "criminal" or "illegal law breaker"? Would that be fair?

It's not that you are not saying they are not human, like bank robbers are human, but rather, it's that you are equating the two as equal in criminality. Such general criminalizing of undocumented immigrants excuses that these people deserve the nasty rhetoric, or worse, hatred, and hate crimes, against them.

Anonymous said: Law breakers always have a negative image. It goes with the territory, duh.

Most illegals are not coming from a war torn country, they are coming from Mexico.

No one is saying that illegals aren't human anymore than a bank robber isn't a human being. But some humans do break laws and that is what the objection is.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

Many illegal aliens may have some nice traits but that shouldn't be used as judgement of them as far as enforcing our laws. I am sure many citizens who have broken a law or two have some nice personality traits also. When they stand before a judge for commiting a crime, should the judge give them a pass because they have some other nice personality traits? Get real here, will you?

Crashing the gates of our country by the millions in no way compares to running a red light. If a citizen runs a red light they get a ticket. If someone enters our country illegally, the penality is deportation. The penalty fits the crime. If someone robs a bank, it is the same scenario. The penalty fits the crime.

Stop blaming the U.S. for bad trade agreements. It takes two to tango. The countries who entered into any trade agreements with us signed the contract also. If the agreement isn't working, then the contract needs to be re-negotiated but in no way should the American CITIZEN be expected to allow their country invaded by illegal aliens due to the above.

Most Americans do not advocate hate crimes, even if it is an illegal alien that is the target. That is the problem with you and the rest of the pro's in here. You act like there is some kind of rampant hate crime wave against Latinos both legal ane illegal. There isn't! If crimes against Latinos is increasing, it is simply because their numbers are rising. It is about percentages. Of course in some incidents it is about the frustration of their numbers rising due to illegal immigration. Americans are PO'd about that and rightly so! But I still don't advocate crimes against them and neither do most Americans. Get off the victim mentality train and join with the majority of Americans who are for the rule of law and respect our soveirgn borders. You would find a big difference in the attitude of most Americans towards Latinos.

Dave said...

anonymous said: Crashing the gates of our country by the millions...

Inflammatory and inaccurate. You get real.

anonymous said: If the agreement isn't working, then the contract needs to be re-negotiated but in no way should the American CITIZEN be expected to allow their country invaded by illegal aliens due to the above.

That sure sounds like a call to bear arms, against the illegal alien invaders. But wait, you don't advocate crimes against them, yet you do use words like "alien" and "invasion" and "invaders"?

We can, and should, hold our government accountable, and Mexico, for the matter, for the migration of their poor into our country, and to a large degree, our government ignored the issue for years, even welcomed them in, in order to fill jobs that nobody would do, and only after it became a convenient way to scapegoat and a distraction, it is popular to talk about millions of aliens invading our land and reaping everything from jobs to healthcare, to benefits! Who's playing the victim card now?

Stop looking at these people as the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. It helps to look at the world as a neighborhood, and these are the children of our neighbors that we've benefited from and took advantage of, and even abused, for a long time, and it is now convenient to blame them for everything under the sun. It is you that needs to get real.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

"Crashing the gates of our country by the millions" is not inaccurate nor inflamatory. It is a FACT!

You are reading way more into what I said, then what I meant. On purpose, I am sure. When I stated that American citizens should not be expected to allow the illegal invasion of our country, how did you go from my simple statement to a call to bear arms? I never said that!!! It is our government that is supposed to protect us and secure our borders and it is our government that we are taking this up with. By the way, our government had no right to look the other way either. They are accountable to the American people. We will not stand for their treachery and deceit!

Alien = foreigner
Invader = going somewhere uninvited
That is the definition of those words in the dictionary and they fit the description of those in our country illegally. Sorry, but I won't play your PC game.

Hate to break it to you but it is a FACT that illegal aliens do steal jobs and lower wages for Americans. It is also a FACT that they use our healthcare and education systems. Are you really that naive? I am not blaming them for ALL the ills of our country but what I stated above contributes to it.

They are part of the problem just as our government and the employers who hire them are. Are you denying that?

The children of our neighbors are our neighbors problems and responsibility, not ours. Again, you seem to think that your regular American citizen should just tolerate the three guilty parties in this immigration mess. Why? We didn't ask our government to look the other way or for the employers to hire them or for the illegals to come here!

Try to comprehend what I am saying for once! I said there are THREE guilty parties in this mess. Yet you keep coming back as though I am only blaming the illegals. I am not! The only one who benefited from their presence here are the employers who got their cheap labor at the expense of American jobs. You are the one who needs a reality check!

Dave said...

Anonymous,

I've had this conversation numerous times here, so just look at earlier comments on Dee's various posts.

I see that you are fond of saying that you have FACTS. That was a very similar way that someone else argued with me. Her name was Sandra, I believe. Please look up comments from Dee's post on Novemebr 6th, 2006. I'm tired of trying to explain to people the difference between a fact, an opinion, and a lie. All you have are just your opinions, like my statements are MY opinions.

You need not get all huffy. Chill out and breathe.

There's no way around this. By using your hate-filled language, you show just exactly how you feel about undoumented immigrants, and it shows how you do support violence towards them, even though you claim not to. It's okay to be PO'd, just know that our government and the Mexican government are to blame, not poor migrants that bleed, just like you and I. Learn to see the humanity of others, including those you've learned to despise.

Dave said...

Anonymous,

It was only after 9/11, when DHS was formed, did immigration start to be a terrorist issue. Prior to that immigration wasn't under DHS, immigration was immigration.

For several years, there have been forces from both within government and from without (nativist groups) that work to keep the association strong in people's heads that:

undocumented immigrant = illegal immigrant = alien invader = threat to U.S. = terrorist threat to U.S.

And people like you have bought the lies, proclaim them as facts.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

But everything I have stated are FACTS and not opionions. I have the stats to prove them!

There is nothing hate filled about calling a spade a spade. I already gave you the definiton of alien and invader. They fit the illegal immigration situation exactly! You make blanket statements about "hate filled", etc. but nothing to show how they are! You are the one arguing from your opinion, not me! I use government terminology and you call it "hate filled"? Are you above the government in this country?

You assume how I feel also and put words in my mouth all the time. I have a dislike of ALL law breakers and that includes those who snub our immigration laws and it is justified! I have NEVER said that I despised anyone nor have I implied it!

Don't give me your humanitarian argument either when you don't give a damn about humanitarism towards Americans first!

There you go again repeating yourself when I have admitted to you that there are three guilty parties in this illegal immigration mess and you know it. Why are you giving the illegals a pass of no guilt at all? You are not being reasonable nor honest by not putting part of the blame on them! They know what they are doing and what they are doing is wrong.

Yes 9/11 did call our attention to securing our country's borders, ports and airspace. So what? You don't think that was natural or normal? If 20 million illegal aliens can slip through our southern border, a person has to be a complete idiot not to think that terrorists couldn't also slip through. No, we are not saying that illegal aliens looking for work are terrorists! What an idiotic remark! But terrorists have and can slip right through along with them. Some of those illegals who are not terrorists are also criminals. We don't need either of those type in our country. We don't know who is entering our country because our borders are not secure! We must control our borders and only take in immigrants the legal way in accordance with our needs and best interests of THIS country.

Dave said...

Anonymous,

It's all in what you say, and how you say it--the easily offended tone that you take, the excessive use of exclamation points, the liberal accusations at me for not agreeing with your flawed thinking, which you insist is fact-based, and the ease with which you use and believe in blanket statements about millions of people, which is closer to 12 million, by the way, not 20, convince me that you are not one to reasonably argue with, on this topic.

It's all very telling just how much you've bought into this belief that undocumented immigrants are very much dfferent than you and I. That you believe terrorists would plot to go through the border and have already done so, or will continue to do so, only helps me prove my point in how much you are willing to believe in lies, as long as it supports your idea that only bad things come from south of the border. Sure it's conceivable, but not realistic. Think about it. With today's technology and the internet, allowing people to communicate in virtual anonymity, people from all over the world can plot, organize, steal identities, transfer money, etc., without ever going near a border. Why would they take the time to first go into Mexico to sneak into our country via the borders?

Dee said...

Dave,
You always have logic on your side! Great comments!

Anonymous said...

Dave,

Where have I made blanket statements about illegal aliens other than to state the FACT that they are ALL here in violation of our immigration laws? WHERE, DAVE?

There are way more than 12 million illegals in this country. Our goverment doesn't want us to know how many. My statistics come from the Border Patrol's estimates and they are right on the front line all the time.

How is my thinking flawed when I am arguing from the immigration laws of this country?

It doesn't matter how different ethnically illegal aliens are from myself. That has nothing to do with it. If these were mostly German illegals, I would feel exactly the same way because it is about the laws of our country and nothing else!

My statistics came directly from the FBI Director that said that there are people coming through our southern border from known terrorist countries. Are you so naive that terrorists wouldn't take advantage of our porous borders? What about criminals? Are you saying that criminals aren't getting through either? ALL illegals entering are just looking for work? You have got to be kidding me!

El Quijote del GED said...

GED THE GREATEST COMEBACK ON EARTH | GED Programs | AMERICA’S NEW EDUCATION PLAN »

December 02, 2008
MARCELO LUCERO HAS NOT DIED IN VAIN

By Profesor Martin Danenberg “El Quijote del GED”

I told the members of the Suffolk County Legislature and the audience the following things today. Undocumented immigrants have rights.

One of those rights under federal mandate, where the states cooperate, is that undocumented immigrants can do the GED and the number they receive for identification purposes is provided by state education officials.

I told the audience about how President George Washington wrote a letter to protect Jews, which can be seen in the Touro Synagogue in Newport, Rhode Island.

In 1939, two-thirds of Americans polled did not want to allow Jews into the United States and they were not allowed in. Latinos (governments) helped the Jews. The Dominican Republic permitted Jews to settle in Sosua.

While I sat there thinking what I could say that was of utmost or of critical importance, it hit me that I could tell the audience that all members of the Suffolk County Legislature can tell their constituents what rights undocumented immigrants have. By informing their constituents about this powerful truth, people all over Long Island could turn their thinking around about the undocumented or illegal immigrants. If this happens, we can turn around communities that are hostile to Hispanics and others. A Suffolk County Task Force could ensure its success and staff members of the legislators and community groups could start working on researching all of the pertinent information immediately.

HISTORY IS REPEATING ITSELF ON LONG ISLAND. THE HORROR STORIES REVEALED BY MANY SPEAKERS MADE ME THINK OF THE SOUTH AND ITS HOSTILITY TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND THE MANY REFERENCES BY JEWS AND NON JEWS WHO WERE THERE TO SUPPORT HISPANICS AND ALL IMMIGRANTS MADE ME THINK OF THE HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST

I call upon all those who attended this event to come out to the event that I hope will take place in Patchogue-Medford. I also ask my readers to share this plan of action with communities all over the United States.

BY THE WAY THERE WERE ADVOCATES OF NATALIE’S LAW WHO TOLD THE ELECTED OFFICIALS ABOUT THE GREAT INCREASE IN HEROIN USE ON LONG ISLAND. IT SEEMS LIKE THE ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN SLOW TO ACT ON THIS ISSUE.

MARTIN N. DANENBERG
7 BLAZER DRIVE
ISLANDIA, NEW YORK 11749
GEDHOTLINE@AOL.COM
631-348-1341
www.ahorre.com
www.ahorre.com/ged
www.geocities.com/gedhotline




Profesor Martin Danenberg December 2, 2008 02:17 PM | Noticias | GED Math



Ahorre: Ahorre Tiempo y Ahorre Dinero

Vicente Duque said...

Analisa, Dee, Dave, El Quijote :

Thanks for sharing with us such beautiful ideas, that have humanity and understanding for those that are the "Other" and the "Otherness", With a capital O because the Other deserves respect. I also include the Blacks, South Asians ( our Desi Friends ), Asians and many others that may look different to the majority.

If you saw the movie "Gangs of New York" with Leonardo Di Caprio, then you may understand how the "Other" ( the Irish ) was hated. Later it was the Italians.

I was not very happy to know that the Irish and the Italians were not very Pro Obama in last election. They should remember what their ancestors suffered when they arrived in Ellis Island and met "the Butcher" .. .that horrible guy in the movie, filled with brutality and sadism. And the hate for Abraham Lincoln and the Blacks in that movie.

Perhaps the mafia in New York prospered because of the exclusion and hate against the non natives.

Italians and the Irish should be more understanding of the New Arrivals and help moderate this Tsunami of Hate that is flooding the streets of New York.

Raciality.com

Vicente Duque

Anonymous said...

I am against all hate, and I experienced it myself.

I was in a band that was big in the Patchogue Medford area, and I saw the prejudice that people had against latino rock musicians. No one wanted us around. People were always yelling for me to go back to Guatemala, they were very mean.

The bass player in Heartless Wager, another local band that went on to make it big, was an inspiration. He was one of the only latino rock musicians around.

Now you have people like the man in Metallica who is a latino, they are breaking down the prejudices, rasism and hate.

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