Thursday, January 31, 2008

Dem Debate "Love-In" a WIN for the Party!

CNN Transcript Summary:
Iraq: Both Obama and Clinton said they support ending the war.
Healthcare: "It is so important that as Democrats, we carry the banner of universal health care"
Immigration: Both support Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR):
1. tighten our borders
2. crack down on employer who exploit workers, both those who are undocumented and those who are here as citizens, or legal, if we can do more to help local communities cope with the cost that they often have to contend with, if we do more to help our friends to the south create more jobs for their own people, and if we take what we know to be the realities that we confront.
3. For the 12 to 14 million people here:
a. come out of the shadows
b. register everyone. if felonious criminal, deport.
c. Vast Majority, path to legalization by paying fine, pay back taxes, learn English, wait in line.
d. Against MASS Deportation: "Voices from the other side of the aisle... are living in some other universe, talking about deporting people, rounding them up...Don´t Agree!"

Once we have those conditions met.. then, they will not be in a labor market that undercuts anybody else's wages.
1. Driver´s License Now: Obama Yes, Hillary No - wait for CIR
2. Impact to African American wages: Obama - "All poor are feeling economically insecure right now. Attributing Innercity poverty to immigrants is scapegoating." Hillary - "employers who exploit undocumented workers and drive down wages, there are job losses...So, I know that what we have to do is to bring our country together to have a comprehensive immigration reform (CIR) solution."

Best One-Liners:
. "It did take a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, and I think it might take another one to clean up after the second Bush," she said.
. The Republicans are going to call you "tax-and-spend" liberal Democrats, and that's a charge that's been effective in the past. How are you going to counter that charge? OBAMA: "Well, first of all, I don't think the Republicans are going to be in a real strong position to argue fiscal responsibility, when they have added $4 trillion or $5 trillion worth of national debt. I am happy to have that argument."
. CNN's Wolf Blitzer noted that many Democrats have said they'd like to see a Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket in November. (Neither ruled out the possibility of selecting the other as a running mate. )


patriot said...

I watched the debates tonight and one thing I can give credit to Hillary for is admitting that illegals do effect job availability for Blacks and other poor citizens.
Straight from Hillary's mouth, dee. Other than that, she and Obama have no respect for the rule of law in this country and should be unelectable based on that.

nancy said...

Are you insane or illiterate? It is about time that people stood up against illegal immigration no matter what their heritage. It has nothing to do with "blacks", just Americans in general. Our ancestors (no matter what nationality) had to come here with papers, and learned the language. It's about time that English and American customs are stressed as acceptance here again.

Anonymous said...

If Hillary Clinton wants to help the ILLEGAL imigrants why doesn't she just move to Mexico and run for office their. If Illegal imigrants have children in our country, why should we give them the right to stay. We all know that her and Obama our just trying to get the Spanish vote. If people believe giving illegal imigrants rights in our country it is just going to cost OUR TAX MONEY. What about our jobs they are taking. Big business makes money off of illegals and avoids paying taxes on their pay and brings down the wage for LEGAL AMERICANS. Americans are hated by foreign countries no matter how nice we are and what we sacrafice. Illegals are stealing our money and distroying our country.

Anonymous said...

We need to take care of Americans first. Make them go home and take all their trash, crime and drugs with them. They are a burden on our country. Why should we give our TAX money to make them legal. Hillary why don't you pay for them out of your purse. I am sure you and Bill have plenty, why should you worry about our tax money.

Anonymous said...

Who is fighting the war in Iraq, NOT MEXICO. Why cann't Washington think of Americans for once. We need the support of our government. We need jobs, cheaper education, lower taxes. HELP US NOT ILLEGAL PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY.

Anonymous said...

I have a lot of sympathy for the comments made above by all those other anon people

think what is going on here is interesting from a political analysis perspective -

i mean there are many people in the usa who are citizens of mexican heritage. they feel empathy for the 20 million undocumented. So when they go to vote, they vote for candidates that promise citizenship for the 20 million undocumented

i can't criticize this at all - i would be that most ethnic groups would stand up for members of their own ethnic group if that ethnic group committed a crime like sneaking in to the usa

the citizens of the us who are of mexican ancestry can't be criticized as far as i am concerned.

however, let's think about the implications. if the 20 million are made citizens, they will be given the vote. Then the block of voters will be even larger

i mean this block of voters of mexican ancestry (after the amnesty) might be large enough to persuade polticians to allow more mexicans to illegally come in to the usa, and then persuade politicians to do another amnesty and another and another

so i call on all good hearted honest people on both sides of this issue to not just look at the short term immediate problem of what to do with the 20 million here today, but to think about the implications for the future.

For me personally, if there was an iron clad guarantee that there would never be a future amnesty, i would vote citizenship for the 20 million.

However, since i believe granting citizenship to the current 20 million would lead to more amnesties, i am strongly in favor of all 20 million of them leaving the usa.

i am sure the above statements antagonize all the hard core antis and pros, but i have to say the truth as i see it

patriot said...

BS, anon. Yes Americans of like ethnicty of the majority of illegal aliens should be critized. They aren't Americans first then. In fact it is un-American not to support our laws and racist to support illegal actitivity just because someone looks like you do!

Dee said...

It was heartening to hear the Dem debate last night. It is good to know that both Dem candidates support CIR.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform will bring both sides to the table to agree on the current Immigration issues and resolve them.

1. Secure Borders
2. Employer Sanctions
3. Bring the 12M out of the shadows and register them.

That is what I have said all along. This is a logical solution.

Dee said...

Pat and Anon,
This is not an ethnicity issue. No one is separating out the ethnicities and treating any of the 12M differently.

Dee said...

I do agree with Obama that no one should be scapegoated for keeping wages down.

As we have discussed, it is the employers like GM that are cutting wages in half and this is a business, administration economic issue that needs resolution.

Anonymous said...


you have invited 20 million illegals in to our nation.

Many people on this board recognize that you Dee are responsible for unemployment in the black community.

Last night even Hillary Clinton publicly spoke the truth about how you Dee stab our young black people in the back. You should have been ashamed of yourself before Hillary spoke out, but this really should clinch it

But what no one on this board has discussed is how you Dee are responsible not just for unemployment but for the murders of our young black people. The people you Dee invited in to our country are on a murderous ethnic cleansing spree

The Southern Poverty Law Center has a great track record of standing up for black people murdered and terrorized. If you read their site you will see that the number of racist murders of black people by Mexicans invited in by Dee is escalating. In fact the illegals invited in by Dee are more than five times as likely to murder a black person than a white us citizen is

I call for everyone to take the time to read this. Let the facts as pesented by the SPLC speak for themselves.

L.A. Blackout
Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks.
by Brentin Mock

Anthony Prudhomme's stepfather, Lavalle, had no idea the young man was murdered for racial reasons until his killers went on trial. (Todd Bigelow)

LOS ANGELES, Calif. -- Ascending the steep steps that lead from the street to the scene of her son's murder, 47-year-old Louisa Prudhomme is charged by a Doberman Pinscher.
Prudhomme reaches over a gate and gives the guard dog a rough pat on the head.

"Sam doesn't seem to remember me," she says.

What Prudhomme will never forget is that just past the snarling Doberman is the apartment on a hill where six years ago her 21-year-old son Anthony was shot in the face with a .25-caliber semi-automatic while lying on a futon she had purchased for him from IKEA. He died wearing a shirt that read, "Keep the Peace."

patriot said...

It won't matter who is president, they will have a tough time passing the same kind of CIR that McCain/Kennedy were trying to shove down our throats last year and didn't pass thru congress. The president doesn't have that much power. Bush tried to get amnesty and he failed, didn' he?

I wonder why the part of the SAVE ACT that has to do with mandating that the employers use the e-verify sytem to verify the legality of their employees was not brought up to Obama and Clinton? That is a very important component in any CIR package starting out. Do you actually think that felon illegals are going to come forward to be deported?

Stay in denial all you want dee but with many Hispanics such as yourself it is any ethnic driven agenda. Sure you have to say give blanket amnesty to illegals of all ethnicities, you would have to or that would expose your ethnic game. Besides what group would be the greatest recipiants of CIR? You got it, Hispanics because they are the majority of illegals in this country. So you don't mind including others in this because it is mostly the Hispanics that will gain from it.

You keep harping about GM as if their reasons for cutting wages are representive of all industries. They cut wages 30 years ago before the illegals reached critical mass and they may not even have illegals on their payroll. But there are many other industries who have cut wages because of the availability of cheap illegal labor (even Hillary admitted it). Your GM argument is weak dee. They are only one company and as I said they had other reasons for cutting wages.

Dee said...

I am very familiar with SPLC and I recommend you study the entire site.

I also recommend you read the entire article you posted. It is against Gangs! and in search of Peace!

Peace is what all PROs want. We want Peace and Civility in this discussion and we want Comprehensive Immigration Reform!

Dee said...

Pat, Pat, Pat,
The good news is that whichever DEM candidate is selected, they will support CIR!

Anonymous said...


you invited 20 million people to come to America

you did it to advance your own agenda

you did not consult with your fellow american citizens

the 20 million people you invited in are murdering the most vulnerable members of our society (see SPLC) and pushing down wages

Dee, please understand our desire to politely ask these 20 million uninvited guests to exit

Dee, you are a good person. I think you take comfort in the thinking that the antis are racists. You don't want to think so hard about what you are doing. You like to think of yourself as on the right side.

But i humbly suggest that you will see the error of your ways in future years.

I pray that you will have the wisdom to see what you are doing to your fellow citizens

patriot said...

So did Bush support CIR and he didn't get it. You are ignoring that part aren't you, dee? It is what congress does that counts and they know the majority of citizens do not want the kind of CIR that McCain and Kennedy tried to push thru congress last year. You pro's are getting all excited over nothing.

ultima said...

"i can't criticize this at all - i would be that most ethnic groups would stand up for members of their own ethnic group if that ethnic group committed a crime like sneaking in to the usa

the citizens of the us who are of mexican ancestry can't be criticized as far as i am concerned. "

Perhaps you can't or won't but there is ample reason for criticizing anyone who aids and abets illegal behavior whether it is homegrown or from across the border. Mirrorism had the best analysis of the Hispanic situation. I will post it in another post as soon as I can locate it.

I think any Anti must criticize all illegal aliens and I think they do. The focus has been mostly on Hispanics because of their sheer numbers and their looming control of the Golden State and perhaps Florida, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico as well. There was a certain amount of resentment against Germans in Milwaukee at one time, especially as they continued to honor their roots including the brother of the Kaiser when he visited.

ultima said...

Mirrorism said:"pro-illegal and pro-immigration immigration reform proponents do appeal to Hispanic voters, but I think that is generally because America categorizes most illegal-immigrants as Hispanics and because the immigration debate has morphed into a condemnation on America’s Hispanic population creating a situation whereby Hispanics are compelled to be sympathetic towards illegal-immigrants in defense of themselves. Yes, there are significant amounts of Hispanic-Americans that are brothers and sisters, sons and daughter, nieces and nephews, or cousins of illegal-immigrants, and blood is thicker than water, but for the most part, Hispanic-America has no tangible connection to Latin-Americans or Latin America."

Although I do not agree with this in its entirety, I think Mirror did a good job of outlining the Hispanic perspective. This may be a chicken or egg type of thing. Did the Hispanics generate ire among other citizens by their support of illegals, or did Antis leave them with little choice because we painted them with the same brush we used on the illegals because we felt they were supporting the illegals and immigration reforms that would do harm to this country?

ultima said...

I have to say that civil debates are much more informative. McCain has lost all semblance of civility and my vote.

The Florida debate seemed quite civil to me and I actually got something out of it but later that civility broke down as McCain continued his perfidy, discourtesy, and disingenuousness.

ultima said...

"however, let's think about the implications. if the 20 million are made citizens, they will be given the vote. Then the block of voters will be even larger

i mean this block of voters of mexican ancestry (after the amnesty) might be large enough to persuade polticians to allow more mexicans to illegally come in to the usa, and then persuade politicians to do another amnesty and another and another"

This hits the nail on the head and represents one of the first posts other than my own that addresses the long term implications of amnesty. We should know now that politicians lie about amnesty as Ted Kennedy did after the 1986 amnesty. We can never trust them to do the right thing. In the long run they will destroy America.

How many presidential candidates have you heard discuss the long term impact of CIR and amnesty? The answer is "none". They don't want to touch this issue with a ten foot pole.

Similarly how many have discussed the limits of population-driven economic growth? Answer "none".

How many understand the need for the repatriation of a significant percentage of illegal aliens to buttress border security?

How many have discussed the impossibility of making all of our borders completely secure without some major disincentives for future border violations?

Answer: "none"

We cannot depend on the Congress to do anything to solve this problem. They will lie through their teeth and speak with a forked tongue to get elected and then grant another of a continuing series of amnesties. There is nothing to suggest McCain, Hillary or Obama will do otherwise.

ultima said...

"Peace is what all PROs want. We want Peace and Civility in this discussion and we want Comprehensive Immigration Reform!"

Why not admit it? What you want is another amnesty and it doesn't change that if you require back taxes, fines , English and other penalties or conditions.

Tell it like it is. You want amnesty for all 20 million except the criminals who don't really care one way or another.

Dee said...

Poor Anon,
You have totally forgotten the history of Immigration in our Great USA. Please Study and quit spouting very false revisionist history.

Dee said...

You are right about Mirror´s comments. I agree with his logic.

Remember, I did not get involved in the discussion until I heard all the illegal immigrant bashing on cable news and joined an immigration website to figure out why there was so much anger.

Dee said...

If you don´t support McCain and McCain is the Republican candidate, who are you going to vote for? The Dems? Nader? No one? Liquid (he has put his hat in the ring)?

Anonymous said...

dee you are an accessory to ethnic cleansing and murder. Read the SPLC site.

patriot said...

dee, the only thing that prompted you to take notice of the illegal immigration issue was so-called illegal alien bashing and anger by law abiding Americans? Didn't you think these feelings were justified based on our laws and the fact that our border was so unsecured that millions and millions of illegal aliens were here? Why was your concern about justified anger rather than the invasion itself and the defiance of our laws by illegal aliens? It was anger by law abiding Americans that bothered you but not the fact that we were experiencing an illegal invasion into our country? That pretty much tells it all about you, doesn't it?

Dee said...

Here is what happened. Over the last 100+ years the borders have been opened. The laws have gone unenforced and workers exploited by greedy employers.

Then, in May 2006, all the cable channels were covering the marches. The pundits were arguing angrily about immigration. Lots of arguments about Sensenbrenner.

I didn´t know why everyone was angry.

I joined an Immigration discussion board. There were massive, angry arguments. The ANTIs outnumbered the PROs 20 to 1 and the ANTIs ganged up on the PROs until they left the board.

At that point, I made a conscious decision to stay on the boards and study the immigration issues.

patriot said...

What do you mean you don't know why Americans were angry, dee? Illegal immigration had reached critical mass in the past few years. That is the difference why it went mostly unnoticed prior to that. Americans started to feel the effects of it and seeing a wave of illegal aliens and their supporters marching in our streets by the thousands and some waving the Mexican flag and making demands is what put the icing on the cake. And you questioned why Americans were angry? Are you kidding me? This isn't about immigrants as you stated, it is about illegal aliens.

Anonymous said...

I think Dee needed a cause, a higher purpose

putting it another way, Dee needed a way to keep busy and to feel superior to the "racist rednecks" around her

Dee was looking for a way to feel sanctimonious.

I bet that Dee is in most ways a patriotic american citizen. But her life was too boring

so she wanted a cause

i bet that dee latched on to the cause of illegal immigrants before she fully understood it

In my opinion if Dee had known all the negative impacts that the illegals were having on america she would have chosen some other cause - like the environment or something

I think that dee honestly did not know that illegals push down wages of the unskilled americans and ethnically cleanse us citizens from their neighborhoods

Dee is in my opinion a good hearted person. She cares about the downtrodden in the us.

For god's sake, Dee spent time picking crops. She knows what it is like to work for low wages in the hot sun

Mark my words, dee will come around to the humane progressive view, that of politely asking the 20 million to exit, as happened in oklahoma and arizona

i give dee credit for this and will not stop believing

patriot said...

anon, sorry but you are way off base on dee. You give her far more credit than is warranted. You don't know her as those of us who have posted in this blog for some time and I know someone who posted in a forum with her awhile back and believe me you don't know who you are dealing with here. She is la raza through and through. Just telling it like it is.

Anonymous said...


with all due respect, i disagree.
La Raza is running a campaign to murder black people. They want to ethnically cleanse the black folks.

I just don't see Dee as part of this.
Mark my words, Dee is a patriotic American and she will see the light.

In my opinion Dee just needs to see enough evidence of the evil that La Raza is doing and she will quietly drop out of this fight.

Let's stop arguing about this - let's just revisit this in a year and see if Dee is still on the side that she is on today

Dee said...

It was much simpler than that.
I went to a discusssion board to understand an issue. I saw the anger. I saw one side outnumbering another.
The mother in me wanted to help.
That’s it.
So Mirror´s theory, for me, was absolutely correct.

Dee said...

My life has never, ever been boring.
I am an accomplished woman.
I have a successful life.
My children and g-babies are my greatest accomplishments.
As I entered this discussion, I saw my side needed help.
All of my training in life, in my career, taught me how to win arguments.
I knew those on my side were right.
I decided, based on the discussion, to stay and help them.
It is as simple as that.

patriot said...

anon, by me saying that dee is la raza through and through, I wasn't talking about the NCLR. What I meant is that she is ethnically driven in an unsavory way as in she wants this country to be dominantly Hispanic by any means possible. I don't believe that she has an agenda to kill blacks or anyone else that is Non-Hispanic. She just wants Hispanics to have the power in this country politically and numerically. Supporting the foot soldiers aka illegal aliens helps this agenda come true.

You are being very naive if you think that dee will ever see the light. Loyal Americans support our laws and put the best interests of this country ahead of some ethnocentric agenda.

Dee said...

I would like to understand you better. You seem to have dual arguments going on. This is not a public discussion, one that I would like to understand about you.
Sometime, if you will, email me:

I would like to, at some point in time, understand your motivation.

I have shared mine.

Mine is very simple. Also, I look for no gain in any way. No monetary gain. No notoriety. Nothing. Nothing at all. Believe me, people have tried, but I want nothing. Nothing.

I just seek to understand and to be understood.

Dee said...

This was the best debate I´ve seen. The candidates spoke about the issues and their positions. There was no candy coating or glossing over of issues. Whoever the GOP candidate is, they should be worried.

Romney and his coach whisperers should be most worried.

Dee said...

I think there is a good possibility of Obama winning the Dem candidacy.

Additionally, I think he made a statement that suggests he will name Hillary to his cabinet as Secretary of Health and Human Services. When he made the quote below, he looked directly at Hillary as he said the word "Cabinet."

OBAMA´s Quote:
"..I respect Senator Clinton. I think her service to this country has been extraordinary...I can say this about -- about who I want not just as vice president but as a cabinet member. Part of what I would like to do is restore a sense of what is possible in government...And that means having people of the greatest excellence and competence. It means people with integrity. It means people with independence, who are willing to say no to me so, so that, you know, no more yes-men or women in the White House."

patriot said...

Isn't it funny how the politicans mud sling their opponents and then turn around later and say they have integrity. A few weeks ago Obama was hostile towards Hillary and vice-versa and now he suggests that she be vice president or at the very least a member of his cabinet if he gets elected.

Dee said...

I think once the Dems are elected and win the Presidency, they will put together a Dream Team Cabinet and Ambassadors around the World!

I think, after 8 deplorable years, we in the US deserve this welcome change!

Anonymous said...

We need a change.

I am sick to death of 8 years of republican misrule.

The republicans love having cheap labor for their sweatshops and cheap maids to clean their houses.

Can't wait for a democrat - call me crazy but i still see the democrats as the party on the side of the working people and i think the democrats will be the ones to create a shortage of labor by deporting all the undocumented workers.

ultima said...

"i think the democrats will be the ones to create a shortage of labor by deporting all the undocumented workers."

Anon I guess you neither recall the Dem vote on the last two CIR bills nor the pronouncements of Hillary and Barack. This is the biggest reason for leaving the White House under the control of the GOP and if McCain is the president elect, even that is in doubt. The best defense against misguided immigration policies is a GOP controlled congress as a check and balance against a potential Dem prexy.

ultima said...

"I think once the Dems are elected and win the Presidency, they will put together a Dream Team Cabinet and Ambassadors around the World!

I think, after 8 deplorable years, we in the US deserve this welcome change!"

More likely you will just get another off brand of corruption and special interest-favoring political hacks. To say nothing about blanket amnesty, open borders, a flood new legal immigrants and more chain immigrations. Good luck with that platform.

patriot said...

You mean the nightmare team? Changes can be good or bad. I think the only good change will be with a Democrat Administration is that the war will be brought to an end. Everything else will be bad changes.

Anonymous said...

Patriot -

the republicans have had the white house for seven years and all they have done is invite in millions of undocumented workers.

The republicans got what they wanted for seven years - cheap maids to clean their houses and cheap gardeners to tend their golf courses.

The republicans have proven to me that they want massive immigration of cheap labor. They don't care if it is legal or illegal. Why should they? Millions of unskilled legal immigrants have the same effect on wages as millions of unskilled illegal immigrants.

I gave the republicans seven years in the white house to fix this mess and instead they made it worse.

Republicans are scum. They are on the side of cheap labor. They don't care about those at the bottom who are hurt by immigration of the unskilled.

patriot said...

anon, both parties have been looking the other way on illegal immigration over the years and not securing our borders But it was mainly the Republicans in congress that listened to the majority of Americans and defeated a bill that would have legalized them and also passed a bill to secure our borders with a fence. They did this in defiance of Bush. If the Democrats gain more seats in congress and we have a Democrat president, they will do just the opposite.

What's the difference between any Republican agenda to get cheap labor or the Democrat's liberal bleeding heart agenda and pandering for votes? Either one will destroy our country and both agenda's defy the laws of this country.

Anonymous said...

The republicans in my opinion have been more aggressive in pushing for arab immigration to america. Look at bush's personal relationship with the saudi royal family

Thanks to republicans, we can look for more arab immigration to the usa

expect for america to get what the UK already has:

From The Sunday TimesFebruary 3, 2008

Family of teen Muslim invited men to rape herAbul Taher
A GIRL of 15 was tricked into a "telephone marriage" ceremony to a Sheffield man with a mental age of five in a ceremony recognised by sharia (Islamic law).

When the girl arrived from Pakistan expecting to meet the handsome man she had been shown in a photograph, she found that he was 40 years old, unemployed and disabled.

To make matters worse, her mother-in-law decided to exploit her attractive looks by forcing her into prostitution.

The family invited men to the family home to rape her before she managed to escape to the police by bolting through the front door. She was taken into care and now lives in a refuge.

The case is highlighted in a report by the Centre for Social Cohesion, which has found that policemen, councillors and taxi drivers are turning a blind eye or even conniving in enforcing the Asian community's strict "moral code" on young women.

The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain. She is typical of the runaway brides at risk of an "honour killing". According to official figures, 10 to 12 women are murdered in Britain in honour killings each year, but the government has been warned by MPs that this is a serious underestimate. Police often record the deaths as cases of domestic violence, while other girls are driven to suicide or taken away to their family's country of origin and never seen again. Many Asian parents would rather resort to violence against their children than see their reputation tarnished by the perceived dishonour of allowing them to become "westernised".

The report, Crimes of the Community, claims the problem is no longer an issue of first-generation migrants importing attitudes from "back home" but is "indigenous and self-perpetuating" because it is sustained by third and fourth-generation immigrants.


Thank you, republicans for what you have done and what you will do in the future

Dee said...

I don´t understand why McCain is leading. I read so many blogs and most ANTIs and Republicans hate McCain. Read Rush, Malkin or Coulter. They hate McCain. Read any of the anti sites like alipac or fair or numbersusa. They hate McCain. How on earth is McCain leading? I don´t get it.

The only guess I can make is:
1. There actually is a "right wing conspiracy" (RWC) and they believe McCain is the only one that can beat the Dems.
2. If this is true, I would guess someone like Jeb Bush will be named as VP and McCain will be taken ill soon after the election.

Can someone explain to me how McCain is leading IF there is no RWC?

And please do not provide the explanation that Huckabee is the Romney "spoiler" because the ANTIs hate him even more than McCain.

Anonymous said...


i think that what you are seeing is

(1) MOST of the big money donors to the republican party want to keep tons of unskilled workers coming in to the usa - they benefit from cheap labor. I don't think these big donors used to care if the unskilled workers were legal or illegal - however now that there is state by state enforcement, they want to amnesty all the illegals. So the big money republicans are pro amnesty

(2) the main body of the republican party is against amnesty but it really is not the main issue for them - for many republicans the main issue is religion, for others it is the war on terror, for others the main issue is tax cuts. The number of republican voters that really will swing their vote based on immigration is small

Therefore, the big money donors to republican party love mccain and most of the average rank and file can live with him -

the only people who really really hate him are the antis and the antis are the ones you hear from

it irritates the antis that mccain seems to be acceptable to their fellow republicans. many antis are depressed and miserable

but there it is-

in my humble opinion, the antis wont be able to elect a president who is anti - they probably wont be able to elect senators or governors who are anti

in my humble opinion the only way the antis win is to put referrendum on the ballots like they did in arizona

Bottom line, in most states if the citizens are given the chance they will vote for a referrendum to boot out all the illegals. This is the avenue for the antis to win.

Again, it infuriates the antis that most of america agres with them, but they just can't get anti candidats elected.

I write the above in full knowledge that la raza will hate me, the antis will hate me, i am not sticking to the party line etc etc

however it is the truth

Anonymous said...

Just to be clear and blunt -

if you put a referrendum on the ballot asking if they want to replicate in their state what has happened in oklahoma or arizona, that referrendum will pass


if you run a candidate for governor or senator or something who advocates the system in AZ or OK and run him against someone who is against the system in OK or AZ, the candidate who is against the AZ OK system will win generally

just to be clear

Anonymous said...

You're missing a lot of the key differences.

No, they aren't alike.

He's anti-NAFTA. Pro-Mexican subsistence economy. Wants to speak with Mexico's President to try to fix the economic craziness down there and restore balance to both the U.S. and Mexico. Hillary Clinton voted for NAFTA! She helped exploit Mexican people with cheap corn flooding and all other ridiculousness.

You forgot to mention that Obama was, at one point, an immigrant himself. In Indonesia, as a child. And that his father was an immigrant to the U.S.

And that he stands for progressive immigration reform where Hillary stands for keeping immigrants around to watch her kids, clean her house, and pretend that she's their friend. He's actually worked with Latinos extensively and has widespread support and friendship. Not so with Hillary.

For God's sake, Dolores Huerta endorses Obama!

Once this race is over, Hillary will go back to not lifting her finger for immigrants, but Obama was a Civil Rights attorney. He knows, he gets it... civil rights are human rights are rights for all people including Latino. That is what you will see from him down the road.

Obama '08

~NAACP member (where we help people both black and brown)

patriot said...

anon, there is no "civil" rights not being extended to "black and brown". We have Affirmative Action and many other programs that help minorities. Now if you are talking about illegal alien, they have no civil rights in this country, only human rights and rightly so. We sure don't need an organization fighting for them.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the last poster.

Obama will heal our nation

First of all, the SPLC says the leading anti group is racist.

Second of all, SPLC says that Dee's allies are runnning a campaign of ethnic cleansing and extermination against blacks.

Obama will fix both of the problems , the racist opponents of Dee and the killers allied with Dee.


New SPLC Report: Nation's Most Prominent Anti-Immigration Group has History of Hate, Extremism

Dec. 11, 2007 — The country's leading anti-immigration organization — whose leaders have testified repeatedly before Congress and are frequently quoted in the media — has ties to known racists and a long track record of bigotry, according to a new report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

The group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR):

is the creation of a man who operates a racist publishing company and has compared immigrants to "bacteria;"
has employed members of white supremacist groups in key positions;
has promoted racist conspiracy theories; and
has accepted more than $1 million from the Pioneer Fund, a racist foundation devoted to eugenics and to proving a connection between race and IQ.
FAIR and its ties to white supremacy are examined in the latest issue of the SPLC's quarterly Intelligence Report.


L.A. Blackout
Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks.
by Brentin Mock

Anthony Prudhomme's stepfather, Lavalle, had no idea the young man was murdered for racial reasons until his killers went on trial. (Todd Bigelow)

LOS ANGELES, Calif. -- Ascending the steep steps that lead from the street to the scene of her son's murder, ---

What Prudhomme will never forget is that just past the snarling Doberman is the apartment on a hill where six years ago her 21-year-old son Anthony was shot in the face with a .25-caliber semi-automatic while lying on a futon she had purchased for him from IKEA. He died wearing a shirt that read, "Keep the Peace."

Anthony Prudhomme was slain by members of the Avenues, a Latino street gang. But he was not a rival gang member, or a police informant, or a drug dealer. The Avenues did not target him for the content of his character, or even the contents of his apartment.

They targeted him for the color of his skin

Anonymous said...

Obama won't help Dee's allies in their campaign of murder

Obama won't help the racists either

Obama '08

patriot said...

anon, let's just forget about the so-called racists on the anti side and the genocidal, reconquista, ethnocentrics on the pro side and just enforce our immigration laws which already includes deporting illegal aliens and securing our borders. What do you say? Is Obama for that? I dont' think so!

Dee said...

Anon, Please sign yourself OTDE so we know who you are and can distinguish you from our other Anons.

OTDE = Off the Deep End

PS: If you don´t like this truthful name, please choose something other than Anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Dee, do you deny what the SPLC has posted?

I mean the SPLC talks about specific Mexican Gangs who have pledged to murder african americans

Is the SPLC article in accurate in any way

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