Tuesday, October 14, 2008

Postville: Angry At ICE and Realing from the Devastation the ICE Raid Caused! Part 2: Postville: Nobody Can Tell Me to Shut Up!!

ICE Raids, the Band-Aids meant to soothe the anger of the ANTI Immigration Reform zealots and to fill the crony owned Detention Centers. Supporters of the ICE raids believe these raids help create jobs for American Citizens. They believe the small towns will return to their visions of Mayberry, a lily-white fairy tale that was not real to begin with. Instead, these raids create devastation for the workers and for the towns. A primary example: The Town of Postville, Iowa:
The citizens of Postville are angry at ICE and the mess they made when ICE raided their town in May, 2008. According to Mayor Bob Penrod, the town has been turned "topsy turvy" since hundreds of heavily armed federal immigration agents storm-swooped in a few months ago and raided its main employer, Agriprocessors, the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant. "It makes a person feel kind of angry," Penrod says. "It's been nothing but a freaky nightmare since May."
At the time, the Postville raid was the largest workforce raid in U.S. history -- the start of a series of large raids across the country. Helicopters buzzed the town, an airplane circled it and agents canvassed the area. Another 300 undocumented workers who weren't at the plant at the time of the raid soon split town with their spouses and children, officials say. In essence, the town lost nearly a third of its residents in a matter of days. "When you have a raid like that, it's just beyond your recognition," Penrod says. "It was nothing like you ever dream of. Believe me. To me, they took a problem that needed a 22-caliber bullet and they dropped a nuclear bomb on us," says Aaron Goldsmith, a Hasidic Jew and former Postville city councilman. "They made a poster child out of Postville." Goldsmith says he believes immigration policy should be dealt with. But if federal officials wanted to correct the immigration situation in Postville, he says, they should've done it step-by-step, not with brute force. "They turned people into cattle," he says. "If they wanted to stop this problem, if they wanted to scare everybody away, all they had to do is go into Los Angeles, California and they could've taken out 1 million people in a day. But they don't because there's too much political clout. "So they go to a place where there's no political backbone. They go to a place where the government's willing to throw us to the dogs."
Down a picturesque tree-lined street off Lawler Street sits St. Bridget's Catholic Church whose pastor, Father Lloyd Paul Ouderkirk, is both soft-spoken and outspoken. It is his church that became a refuge for the town's immigrants the day of the raid and the weeks afterward. "They had attacked this town with a military-style raid -- brought in 900 immigration police to arrest 389 people. I mean, what is that other than a military raid on this town?" he says. Ouderkirk scans his church now, the sun beaming through stained-glass windows. "Can you just imagine all these pews here full of people, sleeping 300-400 people a night?"
Postville residents who spoke say those at Agriprocessors need to be punished if the allegations they face are true. But residents also say the debate over illegal immigration is far more complex than the rhetoric often heard over AM radio or cable TV. They say the Latino residents were productive members of the community who paid taxes, even if under false pretenses, and had been here for years, and that Agriprocessors is key to the survival of the town and region.
"If I had to say anything to anybody about the whole deal: Don't let it go so long that it becomes a huge problem," says Brian Gravel, the principal of Postville High School. But he adds, "Picking on a town of 2,500 people in northeast Iowa is not my idea of a naturalization or immigration policy. You can corner this one plant with federal agents and deport people. That's one way to do it, but that's a good way to ruin towns -- ruin a small northeast Iowa place."
Since that day in May, the Latino population has dwindled, replaced with the homeless, legal immigrants, refugees and legal visitors from countries including Somalia, the Pacific Islands, Russia, and many middle Eastern, non-Christian countries.
The vice president of Palau has journeyed thousands of miles to Postville and offered about 160 of his countrymen for the open jobs at Agriprocessors. Residents of the island nation can legally live and work indefinitely in the United States under a special arrangement with the U.S. government. Some from the Pacific island, where the average temperature year-round is 82 degrees, have already begun arriving. The rest will be coming soon, just in time for the frigid Iowa winter where temperatures dip below zero. Another 125 Somali Muslims, legally classified as refugees, have already moved in. Many have come via the Minneapolis area, as well as Illinois and Texas.
"All of the Somalis came here to work at the plant," says Abdi Hasan, who came to the United States from Somalia five months ago. "I came to look for a job here." He says they've been welcomed by the locals -- "no problems, no mistreatment, no nothing." Hasan gets paid $10 an hour at the "kill house" at Agriprocessors, he says. His only complaint: Not being allowed to say Muslim prayers while at work. "They don't allow it," he says. "That's a problem at times."
Mayor Penrod stands on the sidewalk outside his office. He looks out over Lawler Street, where big rigs rumble and cars freely move about. "What do I love about my city? I love the progress we've made," he says. But now, he says, "Everything is tension based. You can just sense the friction," he says. "I hope I'm wrong."
PART 2: "NOBODY CAN TELL ME TO SHUT UP!
"Nobody can tell me to shut up," says Rev. Lloyd Paul Ouderkirk, the pastor of St. Bridget's Catholic Church in the tiny town of Postville, Iowa. Ouderkirk is outraged at the way federal agents swooped into town and rounded up nearly 400 illegal immigrants on May 12 in a raid on the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant, Agriprocessors. He's angry at the bosses of the plant who are accused of mistreating workers, including children, and using a workforce that the government contends was 75 percent illegal immigrants. And he's upset that Iowa Gov. Chet Culver and other top state officials haven't set foot in Postville since the raid left the town of 2,400 "bleeding to death." "I think every elected politician -- no exceptions -- should bow their heads in shame," Ouderkirk says. "Upset?! Yeah, I'm upset. I mean give me a break ... If the elected politicians couldn't do any better than this to come up with a good, just immigration law, they should hang their heads in shame."
Ouderkirk isn't the only one complaining. Mayor Bob Penrod said his town has been turned "topsy turvy" since the raid. He too wondered why he hasn't heard from the governor. "Basically all we wanted was some advice on how to deal with some of the situations that keep arising," Penrod says.
"This is no way as a democracy to treat people. I don't care if they are legal or illegal. You don't tear families apart like this," Ouderkirk says. "The women and children we're taking care of right now are no more criminal than people driving down the street breaking the speed limit"...Ouderkirk says he'll keep speaking his mind. He invites vocal opponents of illegal immigration to come to his church and "walk in the shoes" of the immigrants he's helping. He says he's "gotten hate letters like you wouldn't believe. If people have a right to spout off like that, then I have a right to speak in defense of these poor people," he says. "This is a free country. I have a right to speak what I believe in, and I have a right to speak up for poor people whose voice is being denied."
Reference:

117 comments:

The Arizonian said...

Um.... In that picture there is an image of a person with a towel on his head.

It is not a muslin headdress, it is literally a towel. I know where you got that image....

First you posted a picture of a jew holding a bag of money, now someone wearing a towel on his head.....

NOTE: You also highlighted the fact that they are bringing in Muslims from Somalia....

Racist.....

Liquidmicro said...

What are you trying to show by this topic, Dee? That Hispanics are better as immigrants than the Somali's and others? That the town is suffering? Exactly what are you trying t prove? That you think because the mayor said what he did "Latino residents were productive members of the community who paid taxes, even if under false pretenses," doesn't that make you a racist too as in your race is better than the 'new' races coming in? What about the multi-cultural diversity you so espouse? "Five months later, tensions are high. Crime is up. Businesses are hurting." Not too much good news in this part you left out of the topic, is there?

Dee said...

Az,
I got the image from the CNN article that is linked to this story.
How rude of you to say racist. I wanted to be exact. I ask all viewers to click on the link in the story and see for themselves.
Shame on you AZ. I thought better of you!

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am a reporter.
I am QUOTING VERBATIM from the CNN news article. I make no judgements. No changes. All anyone has to do is click on the link.

It is very telling about you Liquid for you to sink to the level of name calling (you said racist). SHAME ON YOU!!


Liquidmicro said...
What are you trying to show by this topic, Dee?

Dee said...

The facts are, Postville is devastated. They are reeling. ALL DUE TO THE ICE RAID. The ICE Raid was meant to appease all of you ANTIs and to fill the crony owned private prisons.

The town is DEVASTATED.
As are ALL Towns that have been ICE RAIDED!!

The towns did not ask for this devastation. ICE brought it on to APPEASE you ANTIs and to pander and fill up the Crony Owned detention centers.

Sad!!

Liquidmicro said...

The towns also did not ask that these business' come and bring with them alienated peoples, as in Postville and the Jews and 'Illegal Aliens'.

"From Publishers Weekly;

Bloom’s account of a vicious clash between the residents of a small, intensely Christian town and the group of Lubavitcher Jews who open a highly successful kosher slaughterhouse there is a model of sociological reportage and personal journalism. In 1987, after a Hasidic butcher from Brooklyn bought a slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa, and began to relocate Jewish and immigrant workers to the area, the town began to change. While some residents were suspicious and anti-Semitic, most were happy to see the town rise above its previous financial destitution. But the Lubavitchers, who traditionally live and work within their own closely knit communities, were not interested in fitting into Postville, and many were dismissive of, or overtly hostile to, its original citizens. After the Lubavitchers started buying real estate and exerting greater influence on the town’s finances, longtime Postville residents began to feel marginalized, yet their reactions caused the Jews to become more isolationist. The slaughterhouse also caused problems: workers were paid below minimum wage and were uninsured, women workers were sexually harassed and fighting among the (often illegal) immigrant workers escalated. Finally, the town took legal action to gain more control over the slaughterhouse. Bloom, a professor at the University of Iowa, writes cleanly and with great insight and temperance about these events. As a secular Jew, he also weaves in his own story as he tries to find some common ground with the Lubavitchers. His book proves an illuminating meditation on contemporary U.S. culture and what it means to be an American."


or what about the book:
Hasidim in the Heartland

POSTVILLE: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America, by Stephen G. Bloom. Harcourt, 338 pp., $ 25.

Newsday, November 5, 2000

STEVE BLOOM gets his first glimpse of the Hasidic Jews of Postville, Iowa, on a Friday evening. He drives to this rural town of 1,500 souls from his home in Iowa City and parks across the street from the synagogue. Instead of introducing himself as a Jewish visitor away from home on the Sabbath, Bloom observes the Lubavitch men from afar. As they erupt into exuberant song, Bloom leans on his car and munches on a sandwich, a salami-and-cheese on white.

Postville was a withering hamlet surrounded by failing family farms in 1986 when Aaron Rubashkin of Brooklyn bought a defunct slaughterhouse on the outskirts of town. The Hasidim bought homes, and they banked and shopped on Main Street, but in other ways they behaved as if they had no neighbors, ignoring sidewalk greetings from non-Jews and shunning local schools. By the time Bloom arrives in Postville, the Rubashkins’s factory is grossing $ 100 million a year and the Iowans have traded in the welcome wagon for a pickup truck full of resentment.

In “Postville,” Bloom, a journalism professor at the University of Iowa, explores the tensions between the Hasidic newcomers and the largely Lutheran old guard, whose families emigrated to northwest Iowa from Germany generations earlier. Locals, who, Bloom says, “by and large, were tolerant,” complain that the Postville Hasidim are secretive, wealthy, ostentatious, deceitful, chauvinistic, unassimilable and disrespectful of local customs. “The complaint I hear most is that they need to live by the same rules as all of us,” says city councilman Leigh Rekow. “It’s not such a great religion if they don’t want to be part of the community.”

The gentiles’ gripes echo anti-Semitic calumnies that predate Iowa, but as Bloom talks to dozens of Postville residents, he finds that many complaints have a basis in reality. The Hasidim don’t say hello to Christians on the street. They don’t attend the annual street fair, and they don’t maintain their lawns. The owner of a shoe store, who at first prospered due to large Hasidic families, extended credit to her Hasidic customers, and they never settled their accounts.

One Hasidic man admits this is just how he does business, telling Bloom about a shipment of computers he bought on credit. Let the vendor sue, says Lazar Kamzoil: “We’ll pay him-eventually-but on our terms, not his.” Kamzoil adds that bargaining is “part of being a Jew” and that Hasidim never had any interest in mingling with the goyim. “It’s the place and the people who have to adapt to us,” he says.

Kamzoil reveals himself while playing host to Bloom and his young son for the weekend. The reporter had a much harder time penetrating Hasidic society than he expected (on the other hand, the longtime Iowans were relatively open with him), and Bloom’s easiest point of entry was to let the Lubavitchers, known for urging assimilated Jews to become more observant, proselytize to him. One of the Rubashkins gets Bloom to strap on phylacteries, and Kamzoil makes sure Bloom participates in a Saturday service. Once the Hasidim figure out that Bloom is only playing along, however, they treat him like a pork-eater.

“Postville” is told in the first person, and the “clash of cultures” mentioned in the subtitle refers not only to the divide between Christian Postville and the Hasidic outpost, but also to Bloom’s relationship to each. A New Jersey-bred, Berkeley-educated reporter who moved to Iowa from San Francisco, Bloom is a creature of the speedy, modern life of the coasts, and his Jewishness manifests itself mostly as a longing for pastrami and a revulsion at the mention of Jesus during Cub Scout meetings. He feels himself as much a fish out of water in Iowa as he imagines the Lubavitchers would be. In fact, they have brought their way of life with them, whereas Bloom feels somewhat rootless.

Bloom writes about his own struggles, at times affectingly. He also shows himself to be a valiant reporter. He is at his impersonal best in a long tangent about a pair of disgruntled Hasidim who go on a crime spree through the Iowa countryside; one, a convert, is severely punished, and the other, from a renowned rabbinic lineage, gets a slap on the wrist.

One area Bloom did not master, however, is Judaism, particularly in his mistaking the whole-hog observance of the Hasidim for complete authenticity. He brings his son to the Kamzoils’ so Mikey can have a “thoroughly Jewish experience,” as though it were impossible to have one at home.

The reporter in Bloom does not judge the Rubashkins for hiring illegal immigrants and flouting labor regulations, much as he bends over backward not to accuse the Postville Christians of anti-Semitism. However, by the end of the book Bloom, whose sense of kinship with the Hasidim brought him to Postville, feels as stung as the Iowans did, and he himself describes the Hasidim of Postville as secretive, chauvinistic and deceitful.

Bloom makes a convincing case that they are, but unfortunately he extrapolates from his experiences to make unsupportable broad generalizations, much as the Iowans do. Bargaining is not “an undeniable part of Bloom’s own culture” just because the Iowans and Kamzoil both say so, and if it is, so is a respect for workers’ rights, which was championed by the secular Jewish labor movement.

Early on, Bloom makes the claim that Postville “seemed like a social laboratory, perhaps even a metaphor for America.” Perhaps, but a more fitting parallel might be Central Europe, where a changing economy brought religious Jews from the east into German Protestant cities and towns. One hopes the Postville experiment goes better.


Who asked them to come in the first place? Seems Postville may have been Mayberry until the slaughterhouse opened up.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says:
"I am a reporter.
I am QUOTING VERBATIM from the CNN news article."

A biased reporter at that. Verbatim?, you missed quite bit of the article, especially where the crime is escalating due to your stance on Multi-culturalism.

Liquidmicro said...

I used a word, 'racist' and used it in the form of a question. How very telling of you to not comprehend the question. Also how very telling of you to not answer the questions. Quit trying to deomonize those of us putting forth questions that you refuse to answer for fear of revealing the truth about yourself. Your spin only shows your ignorance of the facts.

Analisa said...

Leave Dee alone! She's no racist. She tried to tell you about the experience of a 69 year-old woman who was terrorized by ICE agents breaking down her door. What if that were YOUR MOTHER?? And she tried to touch your conscience by about an ice raid she witnessed where the children were crying and terrified. What if those were your children?? Yet, you were utterly unmoved by the sufferings of another human beings, even a child - unless they are white. What does that make you? White supremicists? I think Hran is the only one honest enough to acknowledge it. He appears to believe that whites are superior -so do all of you. So what does that make you. Racist, perhaps?

You are utterly lacking in a heart or the most basic decency towards your fellow man if they are not white. And you've wrapped yourself in the flag of whiteness...and pretend that you're loyal Americans. Well, that's not the America I was raised to believe in. So, your allegiance to whiteness and white people is your true loyalty. At least, that's how it appears to me. Your values are not American values... American values do not include hate and bigotry, as far as I know. Or scapegoating other people, who have . But I'm heartened because I think America is a much bigger place than you and your small-mindedness towards others. The way you niggled with Dee over the Nobel Prize winners of is an example of your sense of superiority to others. Oh, but you're not white supremicists. God forbid anyone should mention it to you.

Well, you know, our country has lost its place in the world's esteem because of attitudes like yours. People all over the world once admired the United States because we were seen as a beacon of freedom, compassion and refuge. But now we prefer to torture people, terrorize them, throw them into these Gulag-style detention centers. What exactly is it that separates us from repressive governments in other parts of the world? And we love to go around talking about how superior we are to everybody else. Well, nobody likes a pompous ass who runs around patting himself on the back and talking about how superior he is all the time, while demeaning other people and races. The same goes for countries. And you are the ones who are destroying this country with your ideology of hate, in my view.

The sad thing is that you are shooting yourself in the foot. Whether you like it or not, the world is gradually becoming browner - not just America. This is not a threat to whites. It is a natural process. And you're not going to be able to stop that trend, even by terrorizing people in their own homes (or supporting this terror). But your children and grandchildren may end up paying a heavy price for this if they can't learn to get along with other people. Because these children will grow up, and they will remember the terror they went through when they experienced these raids. And they may end up being resentful of whites, who will be in the minority. And I just hope -I truly do!- that they are more charitable towards you than you have been to them. And when they remember how their mothers and father were treated like common criminals when all tehy wanted to do was work (a good American value), there could be a backlash of anger. Now, most Latinos I know are peaceful, hard-working people. But our future workforce will be made up of brown-skinned people. And if they remember how cruelly you treated them, they may revolt against paying for your retirement. Or helping you out in any way.

Compassion is actually the highest form of intelligence. People remember when others were generous in spirit. Unfortunately, they also remember slights. You may end up paying the price, ultimately.

You get yourselves in a snit whenever someone dares call you a racist. But do you listen to yourselves? Almost everything coming out of your mouths is some racist diatribe against people whose only sin is that they didn't happen to be born in the United States. I tried to hold a mirror up to your hate and you didn't like what you saw. That's why you attacked me. You can call me a racist or you can call Dee a racist...but you are a hypocrite. Listen to your own rhetoric...you talk about undocumented peoples like they are vermin to be eradicated. Nazi, perhaps? It's really pretty pathetic.

As for me, I'm not so sure that talking to you solves anything. I suspect that you only respect power. So I think the only way to change things for the better in our country is to encourage as many Latinos as possible to get out there and vote. And to help as many undocumented peoples to become citizens. I will read Dee's posts, but I won't spend any more time reading or listening to your comments (other than Dee's). I can't lie: your ugly remarks are offensive to me. Instead, I am going to devote as much time as I have available to help the undocumented to become citizens. Power is the only language you appear to understand. Let's hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the butt!

And stop bullying Dee! Stop the hate! That's all I have to say.

Analisa

Liquidmicro said...

Analisa,
You are still just as ignorant as the day you were born. Compassion comes in many forms. Too bad you haven't been around long enough to know how any of us think. You are nothing but rhetoric of a biased nature that can't see past the nose on your face. I suggest you email Dee and ask her about each one of our stances.

Now if your are going to type with your flap trap, argue our points or just shut up!! Sit back and learn something since you have nothing to contribute.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Comprehend? Ignorance?
Son, my comprehension and intelligence is far beyond yours.
I do not diminish your comprehension nor your intelligence, although you constantly put forth your OPINION as fact.
You did, in fact, call me that name (racist). However, I will not lower myself to your level to say the same.
The facts are, the people in Postville are ANGRY at ICE! READ what they are telling you. Try to LISTEN for a change.
The problem with you and AZ and Ulty and others like you is YOU FAIL TO LISTEN. You FAIL to accept others opinions.
Your ears are NOT Open!
How Very Very Telling!


Liquidmicro said...
I used a word, 'racist' and used it in the form of a question. How very telling of you to not comprehend the question. Also how very telling of you to not answer the questions. Quit trying to deomonize those of us putting forth questions that you refuse to answer for fear of revealing the truth about yourself. Your spin only shows your ignorance of the facts.

Liquidmicro said...

What are you trying to show by this topic, Dee? That Hispanics are better as immigrants than the Somali's and others? That the town is suffering? Exactly what are you trying t prove? That you think because the mayor said what he did "Latino residents were productive members of the community who paid taxes, even if under false pretenses," doesn't that make you a racist too as in your race is better than the 'new' races coming in? What about the multi-cultural diversity you so espouse? "Five months later, tensions are high. Crime is up. Businesses are hurting." Not too much good news in this part you left out of the topic, is there?

Here is my post. Now comprehend the ?? marks. I did not call yo RACIST, I asked if "That you think because the mayor said what he did "Latino residents were productive members of the community who paid taxes, even if under false pretenses," doesn't that make you a racist too as in your race is better than the 'new' races coming in?"

All you had to do was say yes or no. Don't try to chastise me, it doesn't work. Do I need to dumb things down for you or can you reach my level of intelligence to answer questions vs trying to spin what isn't there? We can start with the basics, 1+1 =2, 2+2=4, does this help you or can you step up and keep up?

Liquidmicro said...

My opinion as fact?? I link to my information, I give it validation, you claim it as nothing, when in fact it derails your whole argument.

Dee said...

Analisa,
The only way to make change in our country is to encourage everyone to vote.
Lately, I have been asking my viewers to have a Vote Party.
Bring your mom, your dad, your sister, your brother, your aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews. Make a party. GO VOTE TOGETHER! Make a caravan. Ensure everyone votes. Watch the debates. Vote. Vote. Vote. That is the ONLY way we have a voice and make change.
I also encourage all PROs to start a blog and we link to each other. That is what the republicans did in 1996, 2000 and 2006. We have to get involved on the internet. WE have to voice our opinions. WE have to stay involved. That is the ONLY way we will make a difference.
Analisa. Remember. Your voice is just as strong and important as mine or Liquids or Ultimas or anyone else here or on the web.

They can say what they want. They can have their own opinions. But your opinion is JUST as Important! YOU ARE EQUAL!!! We are ALL EQUAL.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

Analisa said...
So I think the only way to change things for the better in our country is to encourage as many Latinos as possible to get out there and vote. And to help as many undocumented peoples to become citizens.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Whether you choose to believe it or not, the Town IS suffering. READ what the residents are saying. I am merely reporting what they said. AND guess what. CNN is publishing another report on Postville tomorrow. I will report on that news story too.
Postville is ANGRY.
THAT IS WHAT IS REPORTED.
Postville is blaming it on ICE.
THAT IS WHAT I REPORTED.
Postville was happy before the RAID.
THAT IS WHAT I REPORTED.
Postville is NOT happy now.
THAT IS WHAT I REPORTED.
Nothing more and nothing less.

Please try to keep up!



Liquidmicro said...
What are you trying to show by this topic, Dee? That Hispanics are better as immigrants than the Somali's and others? That the town is suffering?

Liquidmicro said...

Lets see, the Postville Mayor, and a Teacher from the school, a pastor, and a Jew, all say Postville is angry.

The residents state: Postville residents who spoke to CNN say those at Agriprocessors need to be punished if the allegations they face are true.

"If I had to say anything to anybody about the whole deal: Don't let it go so long that it becomes a huge problem," says Brian Gravel, the principal of Postville High School.

Liquidmicro said...

"ICE Raids, the Band-Aids meant to soothe the anger of the ANTI Immigration Reform zealots and to fill the crony owned Detention Centers. Supporters of the ICE raids believe these raids help create jobs for American Citizens. They believe the small towns will return to their visions of Mayberry, a lily-white fairy tale that was not real to begin with. Instead, these raids create devastation for the workers and for the towns."

Right Dee!!! You just report the story, no bias, no bull right??

"a lily-white fairy tale that was not real to begin with."

I could swear that my previous posts refuted that ignorant statement.

Liquidmicro said...

And you want me to keep up....(funny)
How about you keep up!! I'm just responding to your ignorance.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I wonder about you sometimes.

You are a smart guy yet you can be very ignorant as you claim I am.

Deep inside, you are an angry man. You allow your anger to overtake all of your positive aspects.

You know I report the truth.
You know there are problems in Postville.
READ THE ARTICLE AND TRY NOT TO IMPOSE YOUR BIAS ON WHAT THE RESIDENTS ARE SAYING!

Dee said...

As the article states:
"According to Mayor Bob Penrod, the town has been turned "topsy turvy" since hundreds of heavily armed federal immigration agents swooped in a few months ago and raided its main employer, Agriprocessors, the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant. "It makes a person feel kind of angry," Penrod says. "It's been nothing but a freaky nightmare since May."

Liquidmicro said...

I find this article very telling in many ways.

Crisis, crackdown turn Mexicans off American dream

Pay close attention to what they are saying.

"When the U.S. economy began to slow, Ernesto Lorzo and Margarita Martinez first halted construction on the house they were building in Mexico with the dollars they earned in the United States.

Then, when their employers began demanding proper work documents, they packed up their home in Newark, Delaware, and returned home to Mexico with their two U.S.-born children in August.

"We couldn't take it," said Martinez, sitting in the living room of their home in Acatzingo, a village southwest of Mexico City, where a staircase leads up to a second floor that was never built."

They only come here to better themselves back home, and are taken advantage of by employers. They even take there children, USA born back with them, imagine that, building a house in Mexico to return there. They don't want citizenship here, yet they don't want to wait in line for authorization to work here either, which can also be blamed on the employers.

"In the nearby village of Tepalcatepec, concrete homes built with dollars sent home by migrants stand next to tin-roof shacks.

"Many people have stopped sending so that they have enough money up there to live, for rent, insurance, telephone, bills," said Francisco Trujillo, a local official.

As the flow of cash dries up, local residents are selling off the cars, stereos and other goods they purchased with money their relatives earned in the United States, Trujillo said."

Doesn't that just break your heart.

"One such returnee is Alfredo Mendoza, who made $11 dollars an hour plus lots of overtime building houses near Washington until the work dried up. He moved back to Terrenate, another village near Acatzingo, last December.

When he was in the United States, he shared a small apartment with as many as eight other men and sent up to $1,200 dollars a month home to his parents, who razed their mud-adobe hut and built a spacious ranch-style home instead.

But Mendoza did not save up enough to build his own place before the U.S. housing market turned south. Now back home, where jobs pay only $20 a day, he and his family are living with his parents.

"It feels really bad, because you could not accomplish what you thought you could," Mendoza said."

8 to an apartment, isn't that a health code violation, or is it also an occupancy violation.


"In the town of Tenancingo, which governs the villages of Acatzingo, Terranate and Tepalcatepec, mayor Gabriel Gallegos estimates that as much as a third of the 100,000 people from the town and surrounding villages are in the United States.

He jokes that in Delaware his constituents have settled "another Tenancingo," but he is worried the U.S. slowdown could send many people packing for home.

"If they all come back in a bunch, it is going to bring on a lot of economic problems, because we don't have jobs for them," Gallegos said. "Some who come back turn to crime." "

I think this states it all, its the same thing they do when they come here, but we're supposed to allow it right Dee and Analisa?

Liquidmicro said...

I read the article Dee, I see the Mayor, who runs the town as a business, more people means more tax revenue, and then I read the High school Principal and the Residents which is quite the opposite of the mayor. And I have the comprehension problem??

Oh, Dee, I am not angry on the inside or even at all, I'm just like you, I have cracked your secret code and you can't stand it. I am one of you. I am paid the big bucks to do what I do. I see how you and yours perform. I am at the top of my class. My class is one of you.

Liquidmicro said...

"And she tried to touch your conscience by about an ice raid she witnessed where the children were crying and terrified."

Analisa,
You are kidding right?? Dee hasn't witnessed any ICE raid, you need to go back and re-read that topic. She was talking about the Quinceanera and Arpio from an article in Arizona. Either you are extremely gullible or naive, which is it?? Remember, you must comprehend what is being said before you can comment and put forth any form of thought.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says:
"You know I report the truth."

Truth??, you call it truth when you copy and paste an article and leave out the parts that derail your argument, truth?? You interject your biased opinion and deem that as truth?? When your truth is trumped you go off on a tangent and begin the rhetoric. Your truth is nothing more than conjured up bigotry. Until you can become truly unbiased, you will never know what truth really is.

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
"The problem with you and AZ and Ulty and others like you is YOU FAIL TO LISTEN."

Dee, first off, you seem to have a problem reading many of the comments I've made here and twisted them around.

The issue i was making is that it is twice now that I saw you post an image that was offensive racially.

Then you highlighted a part of the article that mentioned they (the Somalian Muslims) could not do prayers at work.

Tit fir tat.

BTW....
I do listen. I listen to ever word.
I also read every word that you type.
But you have consistently misread or misinterpreted my posts to the point that one does get a little frustrated.

That is why I hardly come around anymore. It seems as though if someone posts a viewpoint, no matter how mild, that you disagree with you suddenly mis-quote them and throw the names around as well.

Good day sir....

The Arizonian said...

I accept others opinions Dee. I just may disagree with that opinion.

But when it clashes with your's, they are wrong and obviously not listening to you.

(satire)
After all, if they would just listen to you, and your god-like ability to persuade others to think as you do, then they wouldn't have a conflicting opinion and the world would be good.
(/satire)

Alie said...

Analisa, you are the only one making this about race. Do you think it is only "brown people" who are deported? In my part of the country, most of the illegals are Russian/Eastern European and Irish. And when they are caught up with, they are deported.

As for this:

"Whether you like it or not, the world is gradually becoming browner - not just America. This is not a threat to whites. It is a natural process."

Now consider saying the same thing to a black person:

Whether you like it or not, blacks are disappearing as a race--not only in America, but in the entire world. This should not be threatening to blacks; it is a natural process.

What reaction to this do you think black people would have?

You seem to feel that an ethnic group wanting to preserve their existance is somehow "racist."

There's a HUGE difference between hatred for another race/ethnicity and merely wanting to preserve your own group. You should learn the difference.

You keep talking about our grandchildren as though every single person in this country who wants the immigration laws enforced is white. I have no idea why you think this, but blacks, whites, Asians, and many Hispanics are pro-immigration enforcement.

And one last question: do you really, REALLY think that Dee and other ethnocentric Hispanics would give a rat's patootie about immigration if 80% of the illegals were not from their ethnic group? Really? You're the one who needs to be honest with herself.

Alie said...

analisa, you mentioned that your father was French, so I thought you'd be interested in this:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/01/news/deport.php

Looks as though the French are all racists, too, since they elected a Prime Minister who ran on a platform of getting the illegal immigration situation under control. I guess when France went up in flames a couple of years ago, that was enough for the majority of the citizens.

And here's another thought for you to ponder: as Latinos intermarry with white Americans, the children are actually becoming lighter skinned. Some of these "Latinos" are lighter skinned than some in my own family. (Although some in my family are non-white anyhow, but I'm not speaking of them).

Dee said...

As Reagan used to say Liquid, There you Go Again!
You cannot win the debate so you Change the Subject!


Liquidmicro said...
I find this article very telling in many ways.

Dee said...

Liquid,
What a bias statement.
Read your 1st line, "I THINK". You are merely sharing your very biased OPINION.
I think you are WRONG! Many are successful and doing well. You talk about one or two you read about and make a blanket opinionated statement. How Telling!




Liquid said...
I think this states it all, its the same thing they do when they come here, but we're supposed to allow it right Dee and Analisa?

Dee said...

There you go again Liquid. They were different perspectives but it only you opinion they were opposite. I dont believe they were opposite. They were BOTH upset about the changes that occurred.



Liquidmicro said...
I read the article Dee, I see the Mayor, who runs the town as a business, more people means more tax revenue, and then I read the High school Principal and the Residents which is quite the OPPOSITE of the mayor. And I have the comprehension problem??

Dee said...

Liquid,
You are Wrong Again! I was talking about a Confirmation Ceremony. And I did witness the pictures from the ceremony in which the children were huddled in fear and the sheriff´s men stormed through the church. I showed the pictures of this on my blog.

Quit chastising Analisa. Your bullying does NOT scare me or anyone else!

Liquidmicro said...
"And she tried to touch your conscience by about an ice raid she witnessed where the children were crying and terrified."

Analisa,
You are kidding right?? Dee hasn't witnessed any ICE raid, you need to go back and re-read that topic. She was talking about the Quinceanera and Arpio from an article in Arizona. Either you are extremely gullible or naive, which is it?? Remember, you must comprehend what is being said before you can comment and put forth any form of thought.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You are losing it Liquid.
The topic of this blog: Postville residents Angry.
I quoted verbatim from this article.
Try to catch up!

Liquidmicro said...
Dee says:
"You know I report the truth."

Truth??, you call it truth when you copy and paste an article and leave out the parts that derail your argument, truth?? You interject your biased opinion and deem that as truth?? When your truth is trumped you go off on a tangent and begin the rhetoric. Your truth is nothing more than conjured up bigotry. Until you can become truly unbiased, you will never know what truth really is.

October 15, 2008 12:52 AM

Dee said...

AZ,
You say the image is offensive.
I said the image is the CNN image posted with this article and I asked viewers to click on the link I provided on this blog to check for themselves.
How on earth is that offensive?

The other pix you were offended by was a picture of the Rubashkins. An actual picture. They are Hasidic Jews and dress as such. You took offense to their appearance and because I showed a moneybag in the picture since the topic of the blog was about money. I found nothing offensive and no one else did either but you did voice your concern so I removed the moneybag and kept the picture of the Rubashkins. Why on earth an actual picture is offensive to you, who knows but I did make the edit you requested. How on earth are these actions offensive.

Yet, you do not take offense by the children in the Detention Center, nor the children who were scared to death by Arpaio and his stormtroopers. Those picture offend me but they are the truth. We must see the truth if we are ever to correct these situation.

Maybe you can´t handle the truth.
It is difficult to take at times.


Arizonian said...
The issue i was making is that it is twice now that I saw you post an image that was offensive racially.

Dee said...

Az,
Guess What. Everyone on here has very strong opinions and very few of any of us change our minds significantly.
That´s ok.
At least we are talking. I think that is important.
I hit you and Liquid and Ulty back just as hard as you hit me.
Go back and read my bio. I am provactive. Remember? A Female, PRO Ann Coulter.
If you can´t handle the heat from a woman, a Latina, then I win! (this pix looks like me too!!)


The Arizonian said...
I accept others opinions Dee. I just may disagree with that opinion.

But when it clashes with your's, they are wrong and obviously not listening to you.

Dee said...

Alie,
And how frequently does that happen? My guess is 1 vs 10,000. My niece works in a detention center. The vast majority of those held in those heinous places are Hispanic. They have a few Asians that come in but they usually have the $3K bond in their pockets and never reappear for their deportation hearings. Funny how they always carry that amount in case they are caught.



Alie said...
Analisa, you are the only one making this about race. Do you think it is only "brown people" who are deported? In my part of the country, most of the illegals are Russian/Eastern European and Irish. And when they are caught up with, they are deported.

Dee said...

Alie,
Here is what you are missing. Analisa is quoting the facts.

The whites in the US of today are not the whites of the 1700s (Northern Europeans). There is marriage across races. We are just American and our colors are being a browner shade of White. Northern Europeans have married Native Americans, Hispanic, Asian and Blacks. I have all these races in my family. I venture to say you have the same in your extended family. I find nothing wrong with that. I think its good. So when you talk about preserving the race, that does sound racist to me. That is what the White Nationalists want to do. They want to go back to the 1960s and capture the ethnicity mix of the Whites at that time. They want to somehow isolate and exclude everyone else from this White Preservation society. Hran has never shared with us how he wants to accomplish this. If the WN were to succeed, I think they would make our country a very scary place!

Alie said...
You seem to feel that an ethnic group wanting to preserve their existance is somehow "racist."

There's a HUGE difference between hatred for another race/ethnicity and merely wanting to preserve your own group. You should learn the difference.

Liquidmicro said...

I didn't change the subject I actually added to it, from which you fail to see as usual.

"I was talking about a Confirmation Ceremony. And I did witness the pictures from the ceremony in which the children were huddled in fear and the sheriff´s men stormed through the church."

You 'witnessed pictures'?? That's a big difference vs witnessing the actual event, which was my point. But Analisa is to naive and gullible and believes you were at the event to actually witness the happenings in AZ, especially when you live in TX. Again you fail to get the point!!

"children were huddled in fear and the sheriff´s men stormed through the church."

"Huddled in fear"?? "Sheriffs men 'storming through' the church"?? Love the trigger words, how about providing a link to your tale of it.

As for quoting verbatim, you quoted the information to give the reader of your blog the perception you want, which is your biasness and bigotry. You failed to print anything that was in opposition of your stance from the article. Which is what I pointed out. Instead of trying to find fault in mine, Ultimas, Alies, Pats, Hrans, and AZ's points, why don't you try to argue the points. We have all argued yours and shown them to be quite incorrect. Quit being dismissive and we won't be so hard on you. If Analisa was trying to say something, then let her say it, maybe she will learn from her mistakes, but for you to come here and try to change what it was she said to be that of something totally different, it only makes both of you look foolish.

Liquidmicro said...

Here is an easy question:

Have you ever been outside of the USA, Analisa? Have you ever been to another country or better yet another continent? Have you ever lived anywhere else besides here in the USA? Because what I gather is that you are just like Dee, you are listening to what the media wishes you to hear, and your are naive enough to take it as the gospel. Dee has never been outside of the USA with the exception of border jumping to Mexico for shopping, does this then make the 2 of you worldly scholars??

I am from Postville said...

There are other people to consider in this the wake of this Ice raid that go beyond the illegals who were deported. It is the hard working, US citizens of Postville that have been hurt the most. It angers me to read comments saying that the people of Postville are to blame and too bad. Let me tell you a story about my father. He owned and operated a corner store in Postville for over 30 years. He used to farm, but gave it up after he severely injured his back. So he did what so many other Americans have done before him...he opened his own business, not unlike the old 5 and dimes that used to operate. He never made a lot of money, but it was enough, along with the sale of the farmland, to provide for us and send my two older brothers to college.

In the wake of the raid, his business dropped 70%. Now, let me first say this. My father and my entire family do not necessarily disagree with the raid. Yes, they were illegals and if you break the law, then you pay the price. It’s a chance you take and while I feel horrible for the families involved, they did know the risks. On the other hand, the way the raid was conducted and the after affects have not been addressed. No one has stepped in to help this small town recover. No one cares...not the feds, not the state, no one. My father tried to get a small business loan to cover expenses until business could pick up again. He was turned down. Anyone surprised in the current financial crisis? He could have taken out a second mortgage, but thank goodness he didn't do that, as we probably would have lost the house to the bank. If he had been approved for the loan, he could have altered his stock to cater to the new workers coming in, much as he did when the Jewish and Latino communities started rising in the city.

It angers me to read about people blaming this small town for its woes in the wake of the raid. These honest, hard working American citizens are in no way to blame for what happened. Take my father, for instance…what was he supposed to have done? Not sold all those cokes, candy bars, and cigarettes to people who may or may not have been illegals? News flash for you folks...you can't tell by looking. If you think you can, then you are racist. There is still a sizeable Latino community in the area, made up of legal immigrants, but the economic damage from the raid was not addressed and my father and other business owners went under.

So much for the American dream. We have to sell our house and will move to a trailer court. My parents’ retirement is now gone. I will not be able to attend college next fall. We can't afford it. So for those of you who are being all high-minded and arrogant, YOU tell me how my family is to blame for this mess?? As you sit watching your LCD flatscreen tv worrying whether or not the neighbor's dog is peeing on your precious lawn, tell me I am at fault. As your snot nosed brats whine because they don't have the latest version of Guitar Hero, tell me my family deserves what they got. As corporate execs get paid milliions for company failures and throw half million dollar parties, tell me that we did wrong. I dare you. Grow a brain. There are ramifications that MUST be dealt with in cases like this. ICE, go make your statements somewhere else like Los Angeles where it won't ruin an entire town. Tell me that Iowa is the hotbed for illegals and I'll laugh at your ignorance. Fact is, Postville was chosen on purpose because it would have such an impact. “See what illegals are doing? They are ruining middle America and towns like Postville” is what they were trying to say.

AGAIN, I reiterate, I do not disapprove of the raids themselves, but they way they are done is unconscionable. Give some support and let the community have a chance to recover. Don't just swoop in and then ignore the plight of hard working AMERICAN citizens.

Oh, and one other thing for those of you who think Postville should be left to rot...you think you've never supported illegal immigration? Bull! Think that every Latino who has ever served you, worked on a road crew near your house, or bagged your groceries is legal? Ha! The entire system and everyone involved is to blame. So don't get all uppity and holier-than-thou! I'd love to see your job get moved over seas so I could laugh at you and blame you for working for such an uncaring company. You should have known better, tsk tsk.

Liquidmicro said...

You make many assumptions there Postville, and you fall back to the rhetoric of 'guilt by association'. You seem to be somewhat naive, as you haven't comprehended what anybody here has said.

Nobody has said Postville should be left to rot, you are way ahead and pointing your stubby little fingers in peoples chests. I suggest you get off your little caveat, and help your dad out.

The raid, as unconscionable as you believe it may have been happened, now its time to pick your selves up off the floor and be the Americans that you are, innovative. Otherwise it sounds as if you were living of the backs of the very people you have not disapproved of.

I am from Postville said...

Liquidmicro, why don't you just go away. I am helping my dad, for your information. By the way, I am 16 years old and I have quit school and am working 40+ hours a week and at the same time earning my GED. I am a straight A student, but am doing this for my parents and it all stems from the raid. Can you SERIOUSLY tell me that I'm some whining bastard who wants everything given to her? I am willing to bet that YOU have never had to do so much. So go play with your laptop and go away.

My comments were NOT for you. I ever mention your name? Did I jump to insulting you directly, such as you are did to me? Tells me who the grown up is here and who is naive. I was addressing the overall opinion that towns like Postville deserve what they get. Did you actually read my post???? I wonder, becuase I said we support the actions, but not the way they are done. My complaint rises from the fact that there is no support for REAL Americans, not pseduo-babble-spouting-twits like you. Yeah, now I am talking about you and insulting you directly, so I am done. You can rant all you want, then go home and be smug in your nice warm house and feel oh-so-much better than my family. Jerk.

I am from Postville said...

And before you start droning on about my grammar, yeah I was upset when I typed that and no I didn't proof it. An before you start calling me an illegal because of my grammar, my family has been in Iowa since the mid-1800s. Not that it matters...an American is an American...just some of us are better than you. So don't even try. At least I can sleep easy at night, knowing what the American spirit truly and that it lives on in my hard working, middle class family. Last post, I refuse to read any more of your moronic comments. Buhbye.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Wrong again Liquid.
I have the facts, pictures and truth on my side. You merely have your ANTI opinions.
You could care less about the children crying during their confirmation ceremony.
Go back and look at my archives. Its all there!

Liquid said...
why don't you try to argue the points. We have all argued yours and shown them to be quite incorrect.

Dee said...

Living in Postville,
Thank you for joining my blog and I hope you come back often.
Thank you for telling the truth.
Thank you for sharing what you see is truly happening in your town.

It is good for all of us to hear, see and feel what you are feeling. America needs to understand your perspective.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Stop it!
Stop your name calling" (naive)
You use the same TIRED comprehension argument when someone comments with a different opinion than yours.

I am glad Postville came to share the truth with us.
Maybe finally you will LISTEN to someone who has been there!!

Liquidmicro said...
You make many assumptions there Postville, and you fall back to the rhetoric of 'guilt by association'. You seem to be somewhat NAIVE, as you haven't COMPREHENDED what anybody here has said.

Dee said...

Liquid,
How dare you make ASSUMPtions that Postville isnt helping his Dad.

I admire Postville for coming here and sharing his eyewitness testimony!

Liquid said..
I suggest you get off your little caveat, and help your dad out.

Dee said...

Postville,
You ARE a hero!!



I am from Postville said...
Liquidmicro, why don't you just go away. I am helping my dad, for your information. By the way, I am 16 years old and I have quit school and am working 40+ hours a week and at the same time earning my GED. I am a straight A student, but am doing this for my parents and it all stems from the raid. Can you SERIOUSLY tell me that I'm some whining bastard who wants everything given to her? I am willing to bet that YOU have never had to do so much. So go play with your laptop and go away.

Dee said...

Postville,
Please don´t go.
Tell us more, as an eyewitness, of what you see. Tell us what is happening to other businesses. Tell us how the people there really feel.

Take what Liquid and others like him with a grain of salt. I have this blog so all sides can discuss the issues civilly.

You are a very bright young man! I am proud of you for helping your parents!
God Bless America!!



Postville said..
Last post, I refuse to read any more of your moronic comments. Buhbye.

Alie said...

Dee, the point is that when illegal are discovered, they are deported regardless of where they come from.

It's just that the majority of them happen to be coming from South of the border right now.

If it were Russia we shared a border with, you don't think that the majority of illegals would be Russian and that they would be the majority in the detention centers awaiting their hearings? Of course they would; it's just common sense.

Alie said...

Dee, I am not a WN. I haven't really even studied up on their philosophy. All I am saying is that I take offense when people like analisa make these statements that taunt whites about their future as dinosaurs.

How would you feel if people were saying the same thing to you about Latinos: "Oh, BTW Dee, someday the Latino race is going to become all but extinct, but you shouldn't regard it as a negative thing." How nuts is that??? No group wants to disappear! When a non-white group (such as a Native American tribe) talks about preserving their race/culture, it's ok. But if whites talk about it, it's all of a sudden, "racist."

I don't want to go back to 1960 and everyone knows that there is no way to do that anyhow. Neither do I want my race to become extinct! Does that make me a racist? I don't think so.

And a lot of it isn't even about race, it's about culture. I don't want to become Mexico! Who wants to become Mexico?! For that matter, I don't want to become Poland or Russia either. But it's not the Russians or Polish who are pouring in here by the 10s of millions and not assimilating and having hostility towards Americans (I believe they call us gringos!).

I never even thought about race that much until I started reading about how all of these racist Chicano nationalists wanted to "take over" the country and I saw how much hostility there was towards whites. I also noticed so many double standards and hypocrisy in our society today regarding race.

Alie said...

And Dee, here's another thing: if anyone who wasn't "Northern European" had to leave this country, I would be one of them! So do you see how that doesn't make sense?

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
I found nothing offensive....

Problem number one.
You are always saying how others need to be sensitive to the situation of others. To display an image of a Jew holding a bag of money is.... well offensive.
How would you react if someone posted an image of a "Hispanic" standing in the welfare line, or holding a protest sign that was full of misspellings? I bet you would be offended.

"Yet, you do not take offense by the children in the Detention Center, nor the children who were scared to death by Arpaio and his stormtroopers"

First off, I have no idea what you are talking about. I've never comment on children in detention centers.
Again, associating me with someone else?

Second, to call law enforcement officials "stormtroopers" is libel and biased.
Arapio is doing his job. You may disagree with the tactics, but it is still his job to enforce the law.
You change the law, not just ignore it.

Liquidmicro said...

Postville, you are a naive you sniveling snot. To equate all of whats happening in Postville to the raid is asinine on your behalf. The economic situation is playing a role in it too, probably more of a role than the raid. Your too young to understand life yet. Congratulations on being a straight A student, but don't put forth your ignorance in thinking others are on their laptops and giving their kids guitar hero. I own my own business too, I work everyday.

As a kid, I am willing to pass off your stupidity. If you are unable to comprehend what I said in my comments to you then so be it, it truly shows your childish stupidity. In other words don't try to be something that you are not.

Who said anything about you either being "Illegal" or bad grammar? Let the grown ups talk little girl, go play with your barbies, since you obviously can't comprehend what has been said.

Dee said...

Alie,
Again, what you are not understanding is our own government has been complicit with the elite of Mexico in allowing the workers to come here until they accumulated to 12M.
Now, to appease the ANTIs they are conducting these sweeps in the Heartland because they can get away with it.
The powers that be DONT CARE that they are disrupting and ruining the lives of Heartland America.
The powers that be DONT CARE that they are cattle barning HUMAN BEINGS and imprisoning them in these crony owned private prisons.

The Administration is WRONG! They are the ones inflicting this injustice on our people and the workers.
Why dont you understand this???
Even the people of Postville are telling you this, YET you REFUSE to LISTEN!!


Alie said...
Dee, the point is that when illegal are discovered, they are deported regardless of where they come from.

It's just that the majority of them happen to be coming from South of the border right now.

If it were Russia we shared a border with, you don't think that the majority of illegals would be Russian and that they would be the majority in the detention centers awaiting their hearings? Of course they would; it's just common sense.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee says:
"You are a very bright young man!"

Wrong Dee, Postville is a girl. See her post and COMPREHEND what she said.
"Can you SERIOUSLY tell me that I'm some whining bastard who wants everything given to her?"

Well since she thinks she is a BASTARD instead of a BITCH, then maybe she is confused.

As for her not comprehending Dee, it was in regards to having read all the posts of this topic. Not necessarily her/its post.

Liquidmicro said...

"You use the same TIRED comprehension argument when someone comments with a different opinion than yours."

That's because they aren't arguing the point, they become dismissive, just like you. Had she been able to COMPREHEND what I said, she wouldn't have reacted the way she did.

Liquidmicro said...

"Wrong again Liquid.
I have the facts, pictures and truth on my side. You merely have your ANTI opinions."

I'm wrong, yet you have posted no story with your version of the tale and you have witnessed only pictures, nothing more. And you call me wrong!! Pathetic, Dee, pathetic.

Dee said...

Alie,
You are so defensive.
Read what I said.
Read what Analisa said.
All we are saying is when you and Hran talk about "preserving the white race" no one knows what that means. Are you talking the White race (northern Europeans) in America of the 1700s? Or the White Race in America of the 1960s? Or the White Race of today? They are all different. We are a homogenized society. We intermarry races all the time. Analisa and I are fine with this. We are an evolving society.

However, when you say you want to preserve the White Race of the 1960s, as Hran does, and want to deport or exclude any races of citizens from our country purely for your demographic purposes, that I DO disagree with you.



Alie said...
Dee, I am not a WN. I haven't really even studied up on their philosophy. All I am saying is that I take offense when people like analisa make these statements that taunt whites about their future as dinosaurs.

Dee said...

Az,
What an odd thing to say.
1. The picture of the Rubashkins was an actual picture of them.
2. I added a money bag and you believe that is a negative stereotype as if saying Rich and Jewish is a bad thing.
3. Then you say you believe a stereotype of Latinos is illiteracy and welfare lines?? What planet are you from? Planet KKK? All the Latinos I know are very literate and none on Welfare. Both of these references are rude.

Let´s measure this again just so you understand.
A rich Jewish person
vs
An illiterate, welfare mongering Latino

Gosh! Don´t you understand the word derogatory?


Arizonian said...
How would you react if someone posted an image of a "Hispanic" standing in the welfare line, or holding a protest sign that was full of misspellings? I bet you would be offended.

Dee said...

AZ,
Pardon me for thinking you are someone that reads my blog.

Arizonian said..
"Yet, you do not take offense by the children in the Detention Center, nor the children who were scared to death by Arpaio and his stormtroopers"

First off, I have no idea what you are talking about. I've never comment on children in detention centers.
Again, associating me with someone else?

Alie said...

"However, when you say you want to preserve the White Race of the 1960s, as Hran does, and want to deport or exclude any races of citizens from our country purely for your demographic purposes, that I DO disagree with you."

This is what I posted Dee:

I don't want to go back to 1960 and everyone knows that there is no way to do that anyhow.

And a lot of it isn't even about race, it's about culture. I don't want to become Mexico! Who wants to become Mexico?! For that matter, I don't want to become Poland or Russia either. But it's not the Russians or Polish who are pouring in here by the 10s of millions and not assimilating and having hostility towards Americans (I believe they call us gringos!).

And Dee, here's another thing: if anyone who wasn't "Northern European" had to leave this country, I would be one of them! So do you see how that doesn't make sense?

Now, Dee, go back and read these statement once again. Nowhere did I say I agreed with Hran about returning to 1960. I simply do not want to lose our cultural identity no more than the Mexicans want to lose theirs. That's it.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You are really reaching now.
Because I missed the her reference you chastise me and try to question my comprehension level only makes your argument look very weak (which it is!)
You FAIL to listen to or understand response from a young citizen of Postville.
Liquid, you break my heart.

Someday, perhaps your eyes will open and you will finally see and understand the truth!
I always thought better of you.




Liquidmicro said...
Dee says:
"You are a very bright young man!"

Wrong Dee, Postville is a girl. See her post and COMPREHEND what she said.
"Can you SERIOUSLY tell me that I'm some whining bastard who wants everything given to her?"

Well since she thinks she is a BASTARD instead of a BITCH, then maybe she is confused.

As for her not comprehending Dee, it was in regards to having read all the posts of this topic. Not necessarily her/its post.

October 15, 2008 4:24 PM

Dee said...

Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,
My, my, my!
You Big Bully!!
I thought Better of you than this!!
What is your problem??
You LOSE an argument and you go in the gutter to simply name call and try to bully people from commenting!
Shame on you!!


Liquidmicro said...
Postville, you are a naive you sniveling snot. asinine. your ignorance. ..
As a kid, I am willing to pass off your stupidity.

Liquidmicro said...

Oh, Dee, I just treated you the same way you treated me, condescending and chastised. Then you call my argument weak, now your just being hilarious. You should try comedy.

Again you completely missed AZ's point. But then we all know the extent of your intellect.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,
My, my, my!
You Big Bully!!
I thought Better of you than this!!
What is your problem??
You LOSE an argument and you go in the gutter to simply name call and try to bully people from commenting!
Shame on you!!


Liquidmicro said...
Postville, you are a naive you sniveling snot. asinine. your ignorance. ..
As a kid, I am willing to pass off your stupidity.



You missed some of the better parts, try again.

Dee said...

Alie,
NO ONE
NO ONE
NO ONE
Wants us to become Mexico!
Hello!
Do you understand that the workers that come here want to achieve the American Dream!

Hello!

Alie said...
I don't want to become Mexico!

Dee said...

Dear "I am from Postville",
I invite you to write to me via email: dee_perezscott@yahoo.com

I would like you to write a report, written by you, and I will publish it under your name-author on my blog.

I want you to provide us a 1st hand report of what is happening in Postville.

Interview various people, real people, living in Postville.

Tell us what your town is thinking.

I do have connections to the PRO Blogosphere and to Daily Kos. I promise to publish your story nationwide.

Please tell us more of what is happening and what people, real people from Heartland America are thinking!

The Arizonian said...

Dee,

The picture of a Jew holding a bag of money has been a propaganda image used by the Nazis, KKK, Radical Muslim throughout history. The image of a Jew holding a bad of money has historically been a derogatory thing to stir up hostility towards Jews.
The image is racist.

I was drawing a comparison of the negative image portrayed by a Jew holding a bad of money as being as offensive as an image of "hispanics" in welfare lines and illiterate posters. Both are offensive images.

Not that you would read what I just wrote, but rather pick out a few choice words and extrapolate from there.

Dee said:
"AZ,
Pardon me for thinking you are someone that reads my blog."


I do, or at least have.
Again, I was refering to you saying:
"Yet, you do not take offense by the children in the Detention Center, nor the children who were scared to death by Arpaio and his stormtroopers"
In which I replied:
"First off, I have no idea what you are talking about. I've never comment on children in detention centers. "

Which is true, I never commented on those things and yet you rolled me into some other group that has commented on those things.
And you say I don't listen (read)?

robles said...

Thanks for the link to the stories, Dee. I'm sad to see people here quick to scream racist to you. I did see another story at Standing Firm, about the cost on taxpapers for ICE to conduct raids such as this. Here's some of it:

Remember the immigration raid at the Agriprocessors Inc. meatpacking plant in Postville, Iowa, back in May? According to today’s Des Moines Register, the raid set taxpayers back $5.2 million. According to the newspaper, “That means it has cost taxpayers an average of $13,396 for each of the 389 illegal immigrants taken into custody.”

Keep in mind that the $5.2 million - disclosed through a Freedom of Information Act request with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) ‑ is only what ICE spent. That doesn’t include the cost of criminal trials against the workers charged with ID crimes, indigent defense, and prison. According to an accompanying editorial in the Des Moines Register, “Prison costs alone ran $590,000 a month as of mid-summer.”

So let’s do the math, shall we? If it cost $13,396 to arrest each undocumented worker in the United States, and estimates are that there are at least 11.5 million people who fit that definition, then you, I, and the rest of American taxpayers could be looking at forking over $154 billion to ICE alone.


As an aside, I don't see how using images already at CNN could be racist on your part. And you clearly do not imply that Mexican Immigrant workers are somehow better than Somali refugees, or any other workers that have taken their place.

Liquidmicro said...

Are you implying, Robles, that since it costs money to conduct raids and deport "Illegal Aliens" that we shouldn't be doing it??

ICE has been given so much money yearly to enforce the laws, erect a fence, hire, prosecute, etc. It is part of the overall budget. What do you think we should be doing to the "Illegal Aliens" vs granting them amnesty? Should we not enforce our laws?

The Arizonian said...

Robles said:
"As an aside, I don't see how using images already at CNN could be racist on your part."

And the Nazis didn't create the first image of a Jew holding a bag of money, but they did use the image and spread it on.

Likewise, if anyone else used an image that is generally offensive to some group or another in a "news" story they would be blasted as well.
Just because one didn't create the image does not imply that the one that uses the image makes everything ok.

The part that bothers me isn't so much that the original article used the image, but rather that Dee had taken the image, edited it, made it part of a collage, and then redistributed that image on her "blog".
That took conscience thought. It wasn't a mistake. She posted the image.
Whether or not she knew the image would be offensive to some is another story.

Alie said...

Oh, this "raid" business is so ridiculous already!

I do not understand why businesses cannot be required to use e verify or why the government cannot institute a system by which employers can check the legal status of their employees if e verify isn't good enough.

Then there would be no need for these raids and the costs they entail.

The employees then could be replaced with American citizens and legal residents and if needed, legal immigrants from a variety of countries.

The Arizonian said...

At least Dee hasn't called me a Republican yet......

Dee said...

AZ,
This is just silly on your part.
Look at the picture.
It is Postville being angry. The "old" is the workers being cattle-barned away and the end to the ESL escuelitas.
The "new" is the picture CNN used to depict the new immigrants and the homeless brought in to replace the old workers.
It IS that simple.
AND YOU try to make it something else.
AND you do not even care about the plight of the Postville natives, their anger or their experience... what the article is ALL about!!
Shame on you!!

The Arizonian said...
The part that bothers me isn't so much that the original article used the image, but rather that Dee had taken the image, edited it, made it part of a collage, and then redistributed that image on her "blog".
That took conscience thought. It wasn't a mistake. She posted the image.
Whether or not she knew the image would be offensive to some is another story.

October 15, 2008 7:15 PM

robles said...

Are you implying, Robles, that since it costs money to conduct raids and deport "Illegal Aliens" that we shouldn't be doing it??

ICE has been given so much money yearly to enforce the laws, erect a fence, hire, prosecute, etc. It is part of the overall budget. What do you think we should be doing to the "Illegal Aliens" vs granting them amnesty? Should we not enforce our laws?


Yes. That's what I'm saying/implying. Stop the raids already! This enforcement only approach is not working, is not a feasible long term goal, not for the individuals, families, communities, etc. as we see here.

I would add that it also excuses in some people's minds, hostility and violence gainst people by citizens who perceive hispanic/latino immigrants and even other citizens, to be somehow deserving of being victims of hostility, hatred, violence, sometimes even death, for their crimes. After all, they are "illegal".

As an aside, did you know that they can't feasibly build "the wall" without undocumented immigrant labor? That almost makes me laugh, but instead it's just sad.

Clearly there needs to be more than just enforcement, and that includes examining/readjusting ICE operations and tactics, among other things, of course.

Liquidmicro said...

This link will give some the understanding of how the PRO side thinks and how my first post in this topic should be interpreted.

A Somali Influx Unsettles Latino Meatpackers

GRAND ISLAND, Neb. — Like many workers at the meatpacking plant here, Raul A. Garcia, a Mexican-American, has watched with some discomfort as hundreds of Somali immigrants have moved to town in the past couple of years, many of them to fill jobs once held by Latino workers taken away in immigration raids.

Mr. Garcia has been particularly troubled by the Somalis’ demand that they be allowed special breaks for prayers that are obligatory for devout Muslims. The breaks, he said, would inconvenience everyone else.

“The Latino is very humble,” said Mr. Garcia, 73, who has worked at the plant, owned by JBS U.S.A. Inc., since 1994. “But they are arrogant,” he said of the Somali workers. “They act like the United States owes them.”


Is this the mentality of these workers. They are better than the new workers because they are humble? The new workers are arrogant? What happened to multiculturalism? Aren't we 'all suppose' to be multicultural? It seems some do not want it when there own race is impacted.

Liquidmicro said...

"As an aside, did you know that they can't feasibly build "the wall" without undocumented immigrant labor? That almost makes me laugh, but instead it's just sad."

I would like to see some links to back up that statement, since I found only one company, Golden State Fence, from 2006 that was fined for hiring "Illegal Aliens" for working on the fence.

robles said...

liquidmicro,
I like how you link to other stories here, because it sometimes shows other points of views, but saying "This link will give some the understanding of how the PRO side thinks and how my first post in this topic should be interpreted." does not show how Dee thinks of the Somali workers working in Postville. Is it because Raul Garcia, who is quoted in the article, is a Mexican American, and so is Dee, and therefore, they must have the same thoughts about Somali Muslim immigrant workers?

robles said...

Sure liquidmicro. Here’s one article:

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/08/11/0811fence.html


While it can be argued that this is merely one person’s opinion, and one article, of how difficult construction of the southern border wall will be without the help of undocumented immigrant workers, that person is Perry Vaughan, executive director of the Rio Grande Valley Chapter of the Associated General Contractors of America. Wouldn’t he, of all people, be in the best position to comment on this?

Here’s an excerpt:

Asked whether a border wall could be built on deadline without illegal workers, Vaughan, with the general contractors group, told the Brownsville Herald in June: "It's probably borderline impossible to be honest with you."

The remarks were widely circulated on the Internet and picked up by other news organizations. Some in cyberspace said they don't care who builds a border wall.

"I just want the damn fence built. ... I'll let the Libs and the Intellectuals sit around and worry about irony," one poster wrote on a conservative Web site.

"I was simply acknowledging that in the construction industry, a pretty significant percentage of workers are obviously undocumented," Vaughan told the American-Statesman.

Although federal law prohibits employers from knowingly hiring illegal workers, an estimated 9 percent of Texas' workforce is unauthorized; 5 percent is nationally. Many employers and business and trade groups emphasize that they don't condone immigration-related fraud but that they can't vouch for the documents their workers present.

"You may find that there could be an individual on the job site that is not legal even though you went through various processes to check," Vaughan said.

Vaughan also said that E-Verify, the government's electronic system for checking Social Security numbers, can't be trusted to weed out illegal workers.

robles said...

liquidmicro,

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/08/11/0811fence.html

Wasn't sure if the last link was sent right.

robles said...

forgive me. I cannot link worth a damn here. You can still copy and paste the links I tried to put here.

Dee said...

Liquid,
My gosh Liquid. They are already assimilated to your level!


Liquid said..
The new workers are arrogant?

The Arizonian said...

Dee Said:
"AZ,
This is just silly on your part.
Look at the picture.
It is Postville being angry. The "old" is the workers being cattle-barned away and the end to the ESL escuelitas.
The "new" is the picture CNN used to depict the new immigrants and the homeless brought in to replace the old workers.


I am not an imbecile Dee.....
I understand what you were trying to convey with that image.

My point was, the image of a man with a TOWEL on his head, just as an image of a JEW HOLDING A BAG ON MONEY, are offensive images (one to Muslims, one to Jews).
It really is that dam simple.

BTW, what is 'escuelitas'?
Pardon my European American upbringing.....

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
"AND YOU try to make it something else.
AND you do not even care about the plight of the Postville natives, their anger or their experience... what the article is ALL about!"


And I made what to be something else?
The offensive image to Muslims of a towel on a man's head to depict Muslims moving into town?
I didn't make that image, and it is offensive.

And no, I don't care about the "plight" of a town of people that helped people violate Federal law. Much as I don't care about the "plight" of organized crime families in the 60's being broken up.

You know who I do feel bad for though?
Those poor people that got suckered into working for these people that may have believed that what they were doing was legal. The staked everything in the thought they were legal residents.

Again Dee, walk in my shoes from the past 10 years....
3 wars, lost a wife and child, to come home to this apathy and ignorance......
Makes one wanna go back to the sandbox.

robles said...

And I made what to be something else?
The offensive image to Muslims of a towel on a man's head to depict Muslims moving into town?
I didn't make that image, and it is offensive.


arizonian,
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I do think you went a little overboard, though, in reacting to the image of the "man with a towel on his head." If you click on the first link at the Dee's reference section at the bottom of this posting, it takes you to the original story on CNN, which has two pictures, one is that man with the towel on his head--he IS a somali muslim immigrant in Postville. So how is it racist or offensive for Dee to include his image, or on CNN for that matter, if that IS his image? That would be like me saying that it's offensive or racist for CNN to picture latino men jumping over the border fence, in a story about undocumented immigrants jumping over the border fence. While I don't like it being constantly portrayed in their stories about undocumented immigrants, at least it is an accurate portrayal of at least a portion of undocumented immigrants, not a fabrication. Did you think it was fabricated, or an image of someone else that was not in postville maybe?

Liquidmicro said...

"Asked whether a border wall could be built on deadline without illegal workers, Vaughan, with the general contractors group, told the Brownsville Herald in June: "It's probably borderline impossible to be honest with you." "

Your assessment of "While it can be argued that this is merely one person’s opinion" hits the nail on the head, I look at his position and his statement. The first thing about it is the words 'built on a deadline', even with such a deadline, there are other things in play such as materials, courts, and various other situations that arise locally. Another is the aspect of profit for Mr. Vaughan.


As for "does not show how Dee thinks of the Somali workers working in Postville."

I ask you to re-look at her article, look how things are emphasized, color coded, Blue means she agrees and Red means even more so. The emphasis she uses is justified by her first paragraph of her opinion before the article. My link and my point is that she sounds just like Mr. Garcia of the article I linked to, her emphasis is the same as Mr. Garcia states.

.....
Dee said...

Liquid,
My gosh Liquid. They are already assimilated to your level!


You fail to understand the point again, Dee. Your own stance is blinding you, Mr. Garcia has stated the same things you have highlighted in your article which proves my earlier post and makes my point. If you fail to understand that then who really has the problem?

Liquidmicro said...

Mr. Vaughan makes it clear here about his comment of: ""It's probably borderline impossible to be honest with you." The meaning of which "I was simply acknowledging that in the construction industry, a pretty significant percentage of workers are obviously undocumented," Vaughan told the American-Statesman.

"You may find that there could be an individual on the job site that is not legal even though you went through various processes to check," Vaughan said. Vaughan also said that E-Verify, the government's electronic system for checking Social Security numbers, can't be trusted to weed out illegal workers.


All of this doesn't mean necessarily what you stated: As an aside, did you know that they can't feasibly build "the wall" without undocumented immigrant labor? That almost makes me laugh, but instead it's just sad.

The Federal Government, although we all agree is not perfect, has safeguards in place to either rid or minimalize the possibility of "Illegal Aliens" to be working on the fence. You make it sound as if the fence could not be built unless "Illegal Aliens" where the ones building it.

robles said...

IMHO you guys are all to hyper eager to scream racist at DEE.

Calmaté! Tranquilo!

(that's spanish for 'calm down!')

Dee doesn't convey anything close to what Mr. Garcia said about the Somalis in Neb. I don't know where you can read her highlights as anything close to that.

robles said...

All of this doesn't mean necessarily what you stated: As an aside, did you know that they can't feasibly build "the wall" without undocumented immigrant labor? That almost makes me laugh, but instead it's just sad.

Ok. Liquidmicro. whatever. touché. "Doesn't necessarily mean" what I stated. The executive director of the Rio Grande chapter of the AGC acknowleged the difficulty of it getting built within a deadline, without undocumented immigrant workers. If no deadline, then, when could it be built? 20 years from now? in 100 years?

robles said...

What's laughable about the wall, is that it would take so long to be built that the probably will have solved our immigration problems, and want to tear it down by the time it's completed. Either that, or it would become a tourist attraction, like the Great Wall of China.

Liquidmicro said...

The argument with Dee, is I have been arguing with her for a long time (almost 2 years now), I know her stance on the subject as she knows mine.

There is no touche, I believe you read to much into one sentence that Mr. Vaughn said (Asked whether a border wall could be built on deadline without illegal workers, Vaughan, with the general contractors group, told the Brownsville Herald in June: "It's probably borderline impossible to be honest with you.) and then failed to read (The meaning of which "I was simply acknowledging that in the construction industry, a pretty significant percentage of workers are obviously undocumented," Vaughan told the American-Statesman.

"You may find that there could be an individual on the job site that is not legal even though you went through various processes to check," Vaughan said. Vaughan also said that E-Verify, the government's electronic system for checking Social Security numbers, can't be trusted to weed out illegal workers.) where it is that he clarified his previous statement.

"What's laughable about the wall, is that it would take so long to be built that the probably will have solved our immigration problems", like I said there are many obstacles in front of building the fence, lawsuits at every corner, Congress changing the requirements, DHS instituting a virtual fence that is by no means even ready to be used in its scope and costly as well. We all agree that it will probably not be completed prior to the solving of the problem of "Illegal Immigration".

robles said...

We all agree that it will probably not be completed prior to the solving of the problem of "Illegal Immigration".

Good we agree.

Now could we agree to not call Dee a racist?

Dee said...

Az,
Do you want my heart and sympathy? You know I am inclined that way.
I would put my arms around you, ask you to lay down and put a cold towel on your head (as I do my children and g-babies) and say Dr. Mom will help make you better!

I care for people and Human suffering and want to make remedy.

I care for those that serve and want to honor them.
You have my heart on two counts.

However, America is not perfect.
Our leaders are not perfect.
In fact, many are corrupt.

People like me care.
We want to make a difference.
We know the Administration has commisserated with the elite in Mexico to make the mess we see today.
We advocate Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

Arizonian said....
Again Dee, walk in my shoes from the past 10 years....
3 wars, lost a wife and child, to come home to this apathy and ignorance......
Makes one wanna go back to the sandbox.

October 16, 2008 3:39 PM

Dee said...

Liquid,
Actually, you miss the point of this entire article.
This post discusses what the people of Postville were feeling. The QUOTES I used from this article were actual quotes, verbatim, of what the citizens of ¨Postville" said. You don´t care what the citizens of Postville think or feel. That became very, very evident when you quickly dismissed the heartfelt concerns of "i am from Postville." Your whole attack on her broke my heart. She has written since. My heart goes out to her and all in the community. But you and those like you are so quick to dismiss their perspective.

Where is your HEART Liquid? Where is your Compassion? Why dont you, for once, try to see what they see, feel what they feel? Instead of always thinking YOU are RIGHT!!

Liquidmicro said...

As for quoting verbatim, you quoted the information to give the reader of your blog the perception you want, which is your biasness and bigotry. You failed to print anything that was in opposition of your stance from the article. Which is what I pointed out.

Your opinionated first paragraph set the tone.
"ICE Raids, the Band-Aids meant to soothe the anger of the ANTI Immigration Reform "zealots" and to fill the crony owned Detention Centers. Supporters of the ICE raids believe these raids help create jobs for American Citizens. They believe the small towns will return to their visions of Mayberry, a "lily-white fairy tale" that was not real to begin with."

Dee said...

Liquid,
Again...
You miss the point of this topic.
This topic was meant to depict the feelings of those in Postville.
The quotes from the CNN article were their quotes.
Nothing more.

Go back and read it and perhaps you will understand.
Go back and read what ¨Living in Postville¨said.
Perhaps then you will listen to what she said.
We have to think about our people and how this is impacting all of us!

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
Wrong again Liquid.
I have the facts, pictures and truth on my side. You merely have your ANTI opinions.
You could care less about the children crying during their confirmation ceremony.
Go back and look at my archives. Its all there!


Here is the link:
Saturday, April 5, 2008
Heinous Herr Sheriff Arpaio Stops Girl´s Confirmation!


Now what I see is a single picture showing a girl in a white dress looking at the camera, a girl behind her looking into the camera, and many others sitting in chairs. What I do not see, as you stated, "Liquid,
You are Wrong Again! I was talking about a Confirmation Ceremony. And I did witness the pictures from the ceremony in which the children were huddled in fear and the sheriff´s men stormed through the church. I showed the pictures of this on my blog." are in fact NO 'children were huddled in fear' and NO 'sheriff´s men storming through the church'.

Your outlandish trigger words make you look foolish. Your stated facts are what exactly? Trigger words? Truth? In your picture you have the following: "A girl in her Confirmation dress stands during Confirmation Mass on the Plaza in Guadalupe Friday night. Sheriffs patrol cars circled the plaza during the mass, the second day of a sweep by MCSO in town." Where is your evidence, Dee? your facts? Your truth?


I will reiterate, your highlighted sections of this topic/story are what I deem to be out of line. AZ noticed in his first post as well (NOTE: You also highlighted the fact that they are bringing in Muslims from Somalia....). You make it sound as if there were no problems with the Latino workers and everything was just fine because they paid there share of taxes. You highlight the fact that the 'new' workers are from Somalia and that they don't seem to have to many problems. But then you bring up the Mayors words of "You can just sense the friction" leading some to interpret the fact that the new arrivals are not as good as the Latinos. That is how I took your reporting of the actual CNN story and your highlighting of certain phrases. Your opening remarks set the tone of your highlights. Your insults (anger of the ANTI Immigration Reform zealots) and race baiting (They believe the small towns will return to their visions of Mayberry, a lily-white fairy tale that was not real to begin with.) are what sealed the envelope. Might I suggest in the future you change your opening paragraph or your view of a given article to be much less bigoted.

patriot said...

Liquidmicro,

You should know by now that Dee never debates with honesty.

robles said...

I will reiterate, your highlighted sections of this topic/story are what I deem to be out of line.

If someone just happens to wander in here, liquid, your reactions sound a bit overboard, IMHO. To simply highlight a phrase from a report, how can that be out of line? To call someone Dee a racist, and to put your interpretation or spin on what you think she means about highlighting something? Overboard, calm down.

Highlighting parts of an article can only say so much about what the highlighter is thinking. Rather, you are the one, liquidmicro, who is making a judgment on what you think Dee is thinking. You may say you've argued with Dee for two years now, but based on your statements, it is you who is coming up with the conclusions, not Dee.

This is what I see:

(But then you bring up the Mayors words of "You can just sense the friction" leading some to interpret the fact that the new arrivals are not as good as the Latinos. That is how I took your reporting of the actual CNN story and your highlighting of certain phrases.)

so again:
"That is how I took your..."

See what I see?

Liquidmicro said...

I did not call Dee a racist, I questioned her intent and suggested that she may be one do to the highlighted statements. I see what you see, the question is do you see what I see? AZ seems to also have pointed out what Dee highlighted (NOTE: You also highlighted the fact that they are bringing in Muslims from Somalia....) So, until you can see from another's perspective and understand what their perceptions are, its rather hard to chastise someone for their view.

As for me 'calming down', I have never been upset, nothing to calm down for.

robles said...

liquidmicro said: I did not call Dee a racist, I questioned her intent and suggested that she may be one do to the highlighted statements.

from your first comment here:

That you think because the mayor said what he did "Latino residents were productive members of the community who paid taxes, even if under false pretenses," doesn't that make you a racist too as in your race is better than the 'new' races coming in?

Tell me if this doesn't read like an accusation based on your assumptions. It's not really an anwerable question, but an accusation. This is how it reads: Excuse me, Dee, but I think, based on your highlighting things that other people said in an article that you post about, and MY thoughts and feelings about what was said in the article, that you feel your race is better than another race, so doesn't that make you a racist? I think it does. How do you respond?

(Whether you said "You are racist" or "Don't you think you are racist?", is quite a negligible difference.)

But whatever, you know? The people that are most quick to shout racist at someone else, are usually the ones that get accused most of being one, IMO.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Your bias and your bigotry is you refuse to comprehend anything I write. I used the verbatim quotes from the people from Postville in the article.
Then, we had a young citizen of Postville post her heartfelt concerns. You scoffed and ridiculed her.
You REFUSE to listen or empathize with ANYONE who has a different perspective than you have.
Open your eyes Liquid. Try to see the truth!


Liquid...
Liquidmicro said...
As for quoting verbatim, you quoted the information to give the reader of your blog the perception you want, which is your biasness and bigotry.

Dee said...

Liquid,
This is called QUOTING FROM THE ARTICLE VERBATIM!


Liquid said...
But then you bring up the Mayors words of "You can just sense the friction".

Dee said...

Pat,
Are you back?

I knew you couldnt stay away.
I felt your eyes reading these comments daily.

patriot said...
Liquidmicro,

You should know by now that Dee never debates with honesty.

Dee said...

Robles,
I am so glad you are here.
You are such a voice of reason and logic!
Please stay and comment often!

robles said...

You're welcome, Dee, although quite frankly, I don't know how you can deal with all of this scrutiny for posting stuff, day in and day out. I'm obviously interested in this topic, and I like the concept of allowing people from opposing viewpoints to make their arguments and comments, if anything good can come of it, but admittedly, it's a hard topic to always be focused on, notwithstanding all the shouts and accusations of playing the race card or playing the victim, or being called a racist.

Brown-American Power! (just kidding.)

Robles,
I am so glad you are here.
You are such a voice of reason and logic!
Please stay and comment often!

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
This is called QUOTING FROM THE ARTICLE VERBATIM!


Quoting is one thing, highlighting is another. Your highlighting is the points that you are pointing out, which is what I described as being why I responded the way I did. Keep being dismissive though. As for Postville and my response to her original post, you have yet to point out anything in that post that could have been taken as an insult to her. After her response to me, I responded back.

patriot said...

Nope, I am not back dee. I had a weak moment and felt the need to stick up for liquid and remind him of how dishonest and biased you are.

I will never come back after THIS post. You can bet on it! Liquid is on his own now. You didn't even have the decency to apologize to me for attacking me for defending myself from your new found friend's INITIAL attack on me (10 lies and insults in one post). You can go to hell!

Liquidmicro said...

"notwithstanding all the shouts and accusations of playing the race card or playing the victim, or being called a racist."


You obviously are fairly new to the Immigration topic and debates. Dee has done her share of calling others various derogatory words at times in the past. And as I pointed out in her Confirmation Ceremony statements, there were in fact NO 'children huddled in fear' and NO 'sheriff´s men storming through the church'. As you can see, she embellishes quite a bit, so to trust her version of 'truth' or anything else is quite the challenge.

As I said her opening paragraph set the tone for her article, the insult and the race baiting, which I must then conclude, you agree with her on as well and fail to deem it as anything of offense to anybody else.

Dee said...

Actually Liquid,
If you go back and read my responses, I made several points.
You, however, choose not to interpret or listen to criticism.
Just your style.
I am not offended.

Liquid said..
As for Postville and my response to her original post, you have yet to point out anything in that post that could have been taken as an insult to her. After her response to me, I responded back.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You live in denial.
Any human who looks at those pictures sees those children are shivering in fear. They were intimidated by the sheriff and his stormtroopers.

As always, you choose not to listen or understand and maintain your opinion, your perspective.
Someday, perhaps you will open your eyes and see reality! See life for what it is.



Liquidmicro said...
And as I pointed out in her Confirmation Ceremony statements, there were in fact NO 'children huddled in fear' and NO 'sheriff´s men storming through the church'.

Dee said...

Pat,
We will see how long you can hold out.
I know you read us every day!

patriot said...
Nope, I am not back dee. I had a weak moment ...

I will never come back after THIS post. You can bet on it!

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
You live in denial.
Any human who looks at those pictures sees those children are shivering in fear.


My god Dee yo are pathetic. That Confirmation picture shows all but 2 looking directly ahead, the 2 in question are looking at the camera. Keep embellishing and exaggerating your hyperbole, it looks good on you.

Liquidmicro said...

You made absolutely no points about what I responded to Postville with in my first response to her. NONE, not a single one. All you did was coddle Postville and asked her to post more of her view of Postvilles' state of being.

robles said...

"You obviously are fairly new to the Immigration topic and debates."

Oh, thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm a newbie. I have seen blogs and comments before on immigration, but I've not really spent lots of time responding to people's comments, either Anti or Pro. I was intriqued with this blog, though, just because it does attempt to be a place where people of polar opposite sides do not have to be compelled to say the same things that their respective sides always say. That's what I'm hoping for, although I've found that people do keep repeating their thoughts over and over again even here, including me. So, I'm not convinced that this will amount to anything...yet. But who knows?

As I said her opening paragraph set the tone for her article, the insult and the race baiting, which I must then conclude, you agree with her on as well and fail to deem it as anything of offense to anybody else.

I don't know if it's it's fair to say that I agree with everything Dee says, but I do think that it's to fair to say that HER opening paragraph WILL set the tone for HER article. Duh. The difference is that you automatically will read things as insults and race baiting. I don't doubt that things she writes offend some. You are right, though. I am biased. I do find I agree with a lot of things she writes. I don't get what the point is, though, as if that's not something to be expected.

Dee said...

Robles,
My point in writing my blog is, I want PROs to have an equal voice in the Immigration discussion.

I view our PRO viewpoint very similar to the Civil Rights Movement. The Civil Rights marchers protested the wrongful Jim Crow laws. They advocated education, equal pay, the vote and Human Rights. The Civil Rights protesters, at that time, were viewed by some as agitators and ANTI American, ANTI White. They wrongfully put them in prison.
See all the similarities?
Today, most Americans realize the Civil Rights marchers were heroes and the laws needed to be changed.

I think it is very important that PROs have an equal voice. We need to stand toe to toe, stand straight and proud, speak civilly, intelligently and Patriotically.

I purposely am provacative on my blog. I purposely go head to head in these discussions with the ANTI side. I am glad I have strong debaters like Liquid, Ultima, Arizonian and others here to discuss these topics.
I go at them hard. Head to head. They come back at me, just as hard. Head to head. It is often like a duel, swords blazing. That is when it gets interesting.

My viewers like the debates although most of my PRO audience is hesitant to get involved in the debates because my tough ANTI debaters are very tough and for the new debater, sometimes feelings can get hurt. You saw what happened to Analisa. I am hoping she comes back. I am so glad you joined Robles. You are civil, push back, you are kinder than I am, but also very good in challenging back.

I´ve had my own blog for a year and a half. I joined an Immigration discussion board a year earlier. I actively engage in Immigration and Political discussions in Blogs and news forums across the internet.

The audience for my blog continues to grow each month. My eblogger reports say I have over 10,000 viewers a month. 95% are from the US, with the next highest views from Canada, England and Germany, although dozens of countries view my blog each month. In the US, I have viewers in every state, with the top 2 states being 1. California and 2. Texas. If you go into Google and type in Immigration Talk with a Mexican American, you see I have had over 432,000 on that name alone.

I encourage all my viewers to start their own blogs, become involved in the dicussion. We are the new Civil Rights marchers. We are the new advocators of CHANGE. This time it is Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

Time? Yes, it does take time and dedication and I make no money from this. However, I do this for my children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews. When I joined my first discussion board I realized my involvement would take a great deal of my time, however I asked myself the question, if not me, then who will carry the message and challenge the ANTIs. Their argument is they are the only Patriotics ones. Over time, all of my viewers understand PROs are just as Patriotic, Military supporting True Blue Americans! We love our country and, similar to the Civil Rights Movement, we are advocating positive change.

God Bless America!



robles said...
You're welcome, Dee, although quite frankly, I don't know how you can deal with all of this scrutiny for posting stuff, day in and day out. I'm obviously interested in this topic, and I like the concept of allowing people from opposing viewpoints to make their arguments and comments, if anything good can come of it, but admittedly, it's a hard topic to always be focused on, notwithstanding all the shouts and accusations of playing the race card or playing the victim, or being called a racist.

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