Racial Profiling Ice Agents Bust into Citizen Latino Grandmother´s home brandishing Guns, Grenades and pointing their pistols! A grandmother huddles in fear, quietly handing them her citizenship papers. Is this what life has become for Latino Citizens? Should we be forced to carry our birth certificates, passports and any other applicable citizenship papers and to endure these terrifying break ins because of our skin color? Some ANTI commenters are adament that "if we fit the description", we must be forced to accept these Suppression Raids!
All Latinos! Now is the time to Vote in CHANGE! Vote 2008!!
Olga Savage said she went through a harrowing life-changing experience that might have been a total mistake. The 68-year-old woman told Action 4 News that she heard a knock at her door Tuesday morning. But before she had a chance to get up she said U.S. Immigration & Customers Enforcement (ICE) agents were inside her home. “They came in with guns, grenades and holding their pistols,” Savage recalled. When she asked them why they came into her home they allegedly responded, "Show us your papers." Savage complied by showing them documentation proving that she's been a United States citizen for 40 years. She said they were shocked to see the paperwork. “They looked confused and said, 'They told us you didn’t have your papers',” she recalled. After verifying her documentation, they made copies and left. Olga said they didn't offer an apology or help. But the experience left her in bad shape. Savage told Action 4 News that she had to drive herself to the local clinic since her blood pressure rose to 280. “I told the doctor don’t let me die because I had a really bad pain,” she said. Savage said she wants to know why federal agents kicked in her door like she was a criminal, if she's been a citizen for so many years. “Why, why did they have to come like they were going to war, if I’m a women living on my own,” Savage asked. Action 4 News spoke with ICE spokeswoman Nina Pruneda about the incident. Pruneda said ICE agents would never raid someone's home and adds that the whole confusion started because Olga savage has two alien registration numbers. One number states that she is a U.S. Citizen and the other states that she is a fugitive. Pruneda said ICE will continue looking into this issue.
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218 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 218 of 218It seems Dee you are the one trying to interpret what is being said, read this over and try again:
"Pat said..
robles, it seems though that when a minority intermixes with a white, they and their offspring still only want to identity with the non-white side of themselves"
Do I need to point out the key words to you??
Robles,
Shooting us with the "victim" bullet is a standard argument for the ANTIs against PROs.
Don´t buy into it.
Their standard arguments are (so much rhetoric, so little time)! All their arguments are Lies, or at best, extreme exaggerations!:
1. Stop playing the Victim Card
2. Follow Rule of Law.
3. We are Patriotic, You are not.
4. Illegal Aliens are NOT Citizens they have no rights.
5. Go back to Mexico
6. We have limited resources in this country.
7. They take work away from citizens.
8. They cost billions in education, health and welfare.
9. Blah Blah Blah!!
robles said...
... well, I'm just saying, it sounds like a victim mentality.
I know. Possibly some truth to that, but really, I do not dwell on being a victim.
Alie,
Now you are using the generalization argument. Tsk Tsk.
One of our old commenters, Lupita, used to call all Americas who were Hispanic, Gringos!
We are nothing like the Mexican natives.
Alie said...
most Latinos are very into their ethnic identity and culture.
Thats the way to argue Dee, Dismissive!! Robles has done just fine, he has clearly stated his opinion and has made some points, he doesn't need you coming in here and playing mother hen. He is an intelligent adult.
You can argue our points or agree with his, but quit being dismissive in your arguments, it makes you look ignorant to anything other than your opinion, wait you are, keep those blinders on and stay that Liberal party line!!
"4. Illegal Aliens are NOT Citizens they have no rights."
I have proven this quite thoroughly, if they are to be charged with a crime than they are entitled to a court hearing, It is urged that the offense of being and remaining unlawfully within the limits of the United States by an alien is a political offense, and is not within the common law cases triable only by a jury, and that the Constitution does not apply to such a case.
Your dismissiveness again shows you to be ignorant and only seeing one side, I have shown both sides and the reasoning behind either.
Robles said:
Alie, and Patriot,
I can only speak from what I've seen. Here in Seattle, I've met white people that don't feel like they have an ancestry, they're just white. They don't seem to complain much about it, but they envy someone who has more of a connection with ancestors from a "home" country.
I consider myself an American Robles. Americans come from many backgrounds. I'm not envious of anyone. I am just proud to be an American.
Robles said:
Alie, and Patriot,
I can only speak from what I've seen. Here in Seattle, I've met white people that don't feel like they have an ancestry, they're just white. They don't seem to complain much about it, but they envy someone who has more of a connection with ancestors from a "home" country.
I consider myself an American Robles. Americans come from many backgrounds. I'm not envious of anyone. I am just proud to be an American.
tamara,
I was talking about some people I've met in Seattle. I do not mean to say that all Americans who are white who have lost touch with their cultural roots from their ancestral country are envious, but I've met quite a few that when looking at nonwhites who are still strong with their ancestral cultrue, wish they held on to the culture of their ancestors.
Dee, I do not practice "equivocation." I respond to statements made by others and put forth my own thoughts.
Robles said to Hran:
"You constantly talk about preserving white identity and white culture, but I feel that that is too late. Even white people don't feel that is a priority, which you seem to hold really important, but the tons of people with bi-racial and multi-racial backgrounds would not see things your way, to put it mildly."
This is what I was responding to. Hran is concerned with preserving white identity and culture. It seems to me that Robles is not all that concerned about whether whites continue to exist as a culture/race or not. "Tons of people with by and multi-racial backgrounds would not see things your way, to put it mildly." How much more clear does it need to be for you, Dee? In addition, you continue to ignore a questions which Hran has asked repeatedly on another thread related to this issue.
Robles, you brought up something that I have been thinking of for some time.
You said that as the generations pass, people tend to lose touch with their cultural roots.
I tend to agree with that as it has been my experience that the "my family has been here since the 1600s types" are the ones most consumed with white guilt and the least likely to care about the survival of the Euro-American identity of this country.
Now where I live, we have many 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation descendants of European immigrants. They care very much and celebrate their cultural roots, although they have assimilated into the Anglo-American culture. They are also pretty much devoid of the "white guilt."
Dee, you have a point that I was generalizing in that instance.
Like Robles said, the longer a group of people tends to be here, the less strong their connection to their cultural roots is.
I think various factors are changing this, though. Instant communications, easier travel makes it easier to retain strong connections to the ancestral homeland.
I think it was perhaps Patriot who mentioned this. A hundred years ago when immigrants came here, they most likely never saw their friends and relatives again or if they did, very rarely. The connection to the homeland was severed. Also the 1926 Immigration Restriction Act limited new immigrants into the Eastern European and Italian communities. Without fresh immigrants to keep renewing the ties to the old country, these immigrants just naturally assimilated more fully into the Anglo American culture.
Because of the overwheming number of illegal immigration coming from South of the border, the assimilation/integration process is becoming hampered. There is a constant flow of new immigrants to keep that connection to the native culture strong. There are now Hispanics who have identified with the Anglo American culture for generations who are now renewing their ties to their native culture just because of the tidal wave of Hispanic immigrants into this country.
Yes, there are many Hispanics who have completely assimilated just as my ethnic group assimilated. Therefore, I admit that I was doing a bit of generalizing there. But my point is due to the uncontrolled illegal immigration of the past 30 years or so, the number of Latinos who do cling to their native culture and are slow to assimilate is increasing. They seem to think of themselves as separate from the mainstream population, instead of just being Americans. This is not good IMO and will lead to a balkanization of our country if we are not careful. That is my fear.
Hi Alie,
It's true, this is what I said to Hran:
"You constantly talk about preserving white identity and white culture, but I feel that that is too late. Even white people don't feel that is a priority, which you seem to hold really important, but the tons of people with bi-racial and multi-racial backgrounds would not see things your way, to put it mildly."
Whether I feel it is important for whites to exist as a race/culture or not, I'm simply pointing out that there are many whites in this country that, when marrying and procreating with someone outside their race, acknowlege both or all races that run through their childrens blood. Some may take a multicultural approach to ensuring that they are in touch with both/all races/cultures, but not all. But I think it's fair to say to a "white nationalist", as Dee pointed out Hran was, that even among white people that may not take extra steps to ensure that their kids know both/all races and cultures from their past, simply by having kids that are bi-racial and multi-racial means that they are not as concerned about keeping a pure white race and white culture in the US. I myself am not married with kids, (gay, BTW) but if I were to have kids, I wouldn't feel like I need to limit my choices in terms of producing offspring that fit my race. To say that I'm not conerned about preserving the white race is true, but also in the context that I'm not concerned about preserving any race/culture, including mine (partly because I'm already somewhat of a mix). As I said, we are all part of one race, the human race.
Robles, you said:
"Just throwing out bad examples isn't enough of an indication that only bad can come from it."
Robles, the problem with that statement is that there is no example anywhere in history where multiculturalism is without strife, tension, and downright war and genocide. We disagree in that this fact is enough for ME that only bad things can come from it. I guess you are a little more daring than I am. I usually go from what history and current events show.
Now as to a "middle ground" on assimilation, I think that is a possibility.
I do not think we are going to have the kind of assimilation with new immigrants that we had 100+ years ago. I've already mentioned some of the factors which impede this kind of assimilation.
The world is much smaller than it was back then. Satellite t.v., internet, international phone calls, modern transportation, etc. My ancestors who came here a century ago could not have imagined that they could pick up a phone and speak to their family back in the old country or chat with them on the internet.
They could have gotten satellite t.v. and watched the news of their homeland every day, they could read their magazines and newspapers in their native language. So, it is entirely possible that there would not have been the same kind of assimilation now as there was then. They hung onto their culture to a degree even with the immigration restrictions which were placed on their ethnic group. I think this is one of the reasons I am so pro-assimilationist. Because I know these people and how even 100 years later, in the areas they mostly settled in, they are still very connected to their heritage, still display their flags. I think that had that feeder from the old country not been cut off, they would have had a much more difficult time in assimilating and that it would have hurt their chances of success in this country in the long run. As it is, they become some of the most patriotic and successful ethnic groups in this country, even facing their own cousins on the battlefield in WW2.
This is kind of a long answer, but it is not a simple issue. There are many facets of assimilation. As I said before, it is not only language, colorful clothing, exotic foods, and lively music. It is also values, attitudes, mores. And these values and mores develop over long periods of time and shaped by historical events. There is a world of difference between the Judeo-Christian philosophy which this country was founded upon and Muslim beliefs/values which Middle Eastern countries base their laws and culture upon.
Therefore, I believe that there is room for people to keep the rather superficial cultural trappings of their native lands as long as they accept and assimilate to the overarching and deeper values upon which this country was based.
Also important is that people hold allegiance and loyalty to this country. Divided loyalties do not bode well for the long term interests of this country IMO.
Hi again Alie,
you said: They seem to think of themselves as separate from the mainstream population, instead of just being Americans. This is not good IMO and will lead to a balkanization of our country if we are not careful.
That is my fear.
I guess partly why I'm here, is that I just don't understand that fear. I'm not invalidating your point of view, but I just don't understand it. I guess it stems from me being viewed as "the other". When I do not speak to people, they assume that I am Latino, and not only Latino, but a Latino immigrant, and sometimes not only a Latino Immigrant, but also an "illegal" latino immigrant. I realize that some people have limited experience with seeing minorities, but I don't fit the stereotype in soem peoples head of what Filipinos look like. Even Filipinos don't think I'm Latino. But anyway, I just don't understand the fear you speak of.
Alie,
Speaking of long comments (and Sorry Dee, if this is too long, but I think it fits nicely with what Alie and I were talking about, and I think it is at least as long as some of the other comments), here is the section from wikipedia's melting pot entry that talks about a compromise betwen assimilation and multiculturalism:
[edit] A compromise between multiculturalists and assimilationists?
There also exists a view that attempts to reconcile some of the differences between multiculturalists and assimilationists. Proponents of this view propose that immigrants need not completely abandon their culture and traditions in order to reach the goal that the melting pot theory seeks. This reasoning relies on the assumption that immigrants can be persuaded to ultimately consider themselves a citizen of their new nation first and of their nation of birth second. In this way, they may still retain and practice all of their cultural traditions but "when push comes to shove" they will put their host nation's interests first. If this can be accomplished, immigrants will then avoid hindering the progress, unity and growth that assimilationsts argue are the positive results of the melting pot theory—while simultaneously appeasing some of the multiculturalists.
This compromise view also supports a strong stance on immigration and a primary language in school with the option to study foreign languages. (A consensus on affirmative action does not currently exist.) Proponents of this compromise claim that the difference with this view and that of the assimilationists is that while their view of the melting pot essentially strips immigrants of their culture, the compromise allows immigrants to continue practicing and propagating their cultures from generation to generation and yet sustain and instill a love for their host country first and above all. Whether this kind of delicate balance between host and native countries among immigrants can be achieved REMAINS TO BE SEEN (emphasis mine).
I do understand then that people might see illegal immigrants as more of a threat, but at the same time, the 12 million of so illegal immigrants includes a variety of people with different values, and not all of them have strong nationalist ties to their native country. Among the 12 million are some adults and teens who have been brought into this country as infants and toddlers and have become completely or almost completey assimilated into US culture and identity. Yet they get lumped in with the rest of the undocumented immigrants. It is simply not feasible to deport 12 million people or expect that some or most people will self deport if we can just make it miserable enough for them. These people need to be treated humanely, and there is no simple solution to this.
Partly the fear of undocumented immigrants is that people think of them as being one group of people labeled as illegals and ready to take as much as they can get, and willing to commit any/all crimes under the sun. Simply not true. Many of them would be willing to pay considerably for their crime, if given the chance. It was unfair to jump fence and not stay in line for proper immigration, but that it why immigration reform that is comprehensive sensible and humane, is needed.
Robles, when people do not assimilate and no longer consider themselves as part of the American population (just just by law, but in the heart) and they retain their affinity and allegiance to their particular ethnic group, then a balkanization of the country will occur. That is why you had the Balkans (Croats, Serbs, Albanians), and also why so much trouble in Iraq.
Iraq is one country artifically created out of different ethnic groups. They are first and foremost loyal to their immidiate tribe and then their ethnic group. They are not loyal to Iraq as a country. Therefore, the Kurds in Iraq have more affinity and alligiance to the ethnic Kurds in Turkey than they do the Arab Sunnis in their own country of Iraq.
Do you get it now? I don't see this in you because you do not seem to have an overwhelming cultural identity issue with clinging to your loyalty and ethnic Filipino culture. But there are Latinos in this country who are very nationalistic in regards to their ethnic roots. They are called Chicano nationalists. They used to be kind of on the fringes, but this illegal immigration and the resulting children born to the illegals has pumped up their numbers considerably. There are hundreds of MEChA chapters all in schools all across the country which preach this line of thinking as well as La Raza and related groups.
I'm not given to conspiracy theories or paranoia, neither do I stick my head in the sand.
Alie said: But there are Latinos in this country who are very nationalistic in regards to their ethnic roots. They are called Chicano nationalists. They used to be kind of on the fringes, but this illegal immigration and the resulting children born to the illegals has pumped up their numbers considerably. There are hundreds of MEChA chapters all in schools all across the country which preach this line of thinking as well as La Raza and related groups.
Arguably, I'd say they are still not the majority. A lot of people think of 12 million being nationalistic and not wanting to assimilate, but that is not true. (Patriot, I'm not accusing you of thinking this.)
Concerning mecha and NCLR, I googled and found this info from NCLR's website:
NCLR has never supported, and does not support, separatist organizations. Some critics have accused MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán or Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán) of being a separatist organization and denounced NCLR for being a purported “major funder” of the organization. The reality is that in 2003, NCLR provided one chapter of the organization (Georgetown University) with a $2,500 subgrant to support a conference of Latino students—mainly from the Southwest and West Coast—who were attending East Coast colleges but could not afford to travel home for Thanksgiving. These Latino student groups hold mini-conferences with workshops and speakers, bringing together students who are often the first high school graduates and college attendees in their families.
According to its mission statement, MEChA is a student organization whose primary objectives are educational—to help Latino students finish high school and go to college, and to support them while at institutions of higher education. NCLR freely acknowledges that some of the organization’s founding documents, e.g., Plan Espiritual de Aztlán, contain inappropriate rhetoric, and NCLR also acknowledges that rhetoric from some MEChA members has been extremist and inflammatory. In a June 2006 Los Angeles Times op-ed, journalist Gustavo Arellano noted that all of the MEChA members of his class graduated from college and have gone on to successful careers, a rarity at a time when only 12% of Latinos have a college degree. And to the group’s founding documents, Arellano also pointed out that “few members take these dated relics of the 1960s seriously, if they even bothered to read them.”
NCLR has publicly and repeatedly disavowed this rhetoric as we have others that we believe are inappropriate, as we did when we criticized a pro-separatist Latino website for its racist and anti-Semitic views. We will continue, however, to support programs and activities that help more Hispanics enter and finish college.
Here is an immigration platform to save America from the abyss.
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