Saturday, November 15, 2008

The ANTI GUIDE To Immigration Reform


100 comments:

Dee said...

One of our frequent and favorite ANTI commenters, Ultima, has written a proposal advocating most of these items listed in this cartoon. He asked for my feedback. He inspired me to draw this!

LMJ said...

this is EXACTLY RIGHT!!!

this is so right it's not even funny (it really isn't)

and what's worse, to them this seems like justice, just like that only-child that refused to share his/her toys, "GIMME THAT, IT'S MINE!!!"

it's that mentality and stubbornness that ANTI's continue to show in regards to the immigration issue, they refuse to compromise

thank you Dee for this ANTI GUIDE

Liquidmicro said...

Here's a story Dee will never blog about:

2 charged, man details racial attack, Obama slurs

FULLERTON – The first punch landed square on the side of Benjamin Upshaw's chin. He tasted blood from a split lip.

He had seen the two men coming and realized too late that they were trouble. He says they demanded his money and his watch, spat racial slurs at him and shouted, “(Expletive) Obama.” And then one of them took a swing at his face.

Two Fullerton men described by prosecutors as Hispanic gang members pleaded not guilty this week to a list of felonies that includes hate-crimes related battery in connection with the beating. The men – Nathan Robert Mancillas, 23, and Juan Jose Carbajal, 22 – were being held on $200,000 bail.
....
Upshaw, 47, is a wiry black man who wears a silver cross on a chain around his neck. He's an elevator mechanic by trade, but he's been out of work and living on disability for about seven years. He says he was hit by an errant shotgun blast during a drive-by shooting in Chicago that broke his hip and left shell fragments in his skull.


How do you plan to rid the barrel of rotten apples, thy are all beginning to spoil. Once spoiled, the only way to solve the stench, is to burn the barrel.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Why are you going off topic?
You could have posted this on one of the HATE CRIME Threads. You know, the ones where Mr. Ramirez was murdered or where Mr. Lucero was murdered just due to the color of his skin.
It may have been appropriate on that thread.
For the record, gang bangers, poverty and crime are not part of the Immigration debate.
I agree with you we DO need to resolve and solve the Drug, Gang and Poverty problems in our country.
We also need to solve the sexual predator crimes. (e.g. white middle aged men)
We also need to solve the serial murderer crimes. (e.g. BTK, Bundy, Gacy, etc)
There are so many problems this country has, yet it still remains the greatest country in the world.
I WISH we could solve them ALL!!

Liquidmicro said...

"We also need to solve the sexual predator crimes. (e.g. white middle aged men)"


Oh, but you leave out the Hispanic men in this instance. You know, the new and upcoming Majority Minority.

Liquidmicro said...

We also need to solve the serial murderer crimes. (e.g. BTK, Bundy, Gacy, etc)


Again yo leave out one of the most notable from CA, Richard Ramirez, look at that a Hispanic in this crime, again you only focus on whites in your accusations, racism anybody??

Analisa said...

I had to leave early yesterday, so I wasn't able to follow up on the last thread. I just posted something there. In case you didn't see it, here's what I felt moved to say - some final thoughts on this brutal murder and the racist mentality that engendered it (displayed by the ANTIs on this site):

The insensitivity towards this man's death by the ANTIs is breathtaking to contemplate. When liquidmicro quoted me, he left out something crucial that I said: it is your STATEMENTS which reveal your racist mind set. It is this callous attitude - that Lucero's and Ramirez’s murder is somehow less important than a white man's -that leads me to the inescapable conclusion that those of you on the ANTI side are vehemently racist in your views and attitudes. You know, a while back - when I first started posting on Dee's blog - I visited the site of the one person who was honest enough to admit that he was a white supremacist. All the ANTIs congregated there to try to figure out who I am (hint: you won't find me on the web). It was amusing to eavesdrop on that little conversation. But it was even more revealing to me about WHO YOU ARE as a group. Why were you so drawn to the site of a self-professed "white supremacist" if you're not racists? Tell me that. As the saying goes, you can tell who someone is by the company they keep. And I know very well that the latest strategy of hate groups is to recruit more members by appearing to be normal folks.

Well, most Americans don’t think like you. A normal response to the brutal murder of a man is to express horror and sympathy for the victim and his family. So, who are you really? I strongly suspect that the ANTIs on this site are members of hate groups. I only have to listen to you to figure this out. You're not fooling anyone by claiming that you aren't against Latinos who are legal immigrants - just the undocumented (or in your words: "illegals"). Do you listen to yourselves? You hang with a white supremacist; you've made claims on earlier blogs that your race is more innovative, resourceful, etc.; you discounted Dee’s examples of Hispanics who have won the Nobel Prize; you constantly use words that demean undocumented immigrants; you could care less about the death of this man – in fact, you make excuses for his killer! And most of you are too cowardly to use your real names. Are you afraid that someone you know will read your words and figure out how hateful you are? Why don’t you just put a sheet over your heads and be done with it? This isn’t normal behavior - it’s the behavior of people with serious racist views. So what am I to conclude? Most likely, you’re white supremacists who are hiding your true identity under the appearance of normalcy. And the kicker is that you’re not even that compassionate towards poor whites. Who was it who expressed sympathy for the white girl from Postville? Was it you? No, it was Dee who expressed compassion. You could learn something from this woman: namely, decency, compassion, humanity, Christian behavior: that is, caring for your fellow man. Or is hatred the only real thing that really binds you together as a group?

Dee said...

LMJ,
The list is truly Ultimas list. You are right. It isnt funny. It is tragic!

BJ05 said...

Interesting. It seems some of the anti's on this site assume that the perps were illegal just because of a hispanic last name.

How so totally White!

Anonymous said...

every single anti in this blog said that these this man's death was tragic. no one said that it was less tragic if it had been a white man. there was nothing stated that could be constued as racist in regards to this man's tragic death. we want justice just as you do based on the evidence that the judge will study.

Dee said...

Analisa,
Thank you for coming back. Thank you for sharing the info about the White Nationalists.
I read that the murderer of Mr. Lucero on Long Island not only had a swastika tattoo, he is also a member of the Nazi-White Nationalists. He and the other boys indicated such on their myspace sites. They HATE ALL minorities. One of them was involved in another HATE Crime against an African American. The victim of that crime is also dead.

What is very scary to me is these racists are soliciting new member on the web and many of them are young people.

What is becoming of our society when these people breed hate and violence! Murder!

They pretend to be Christian. On another hate site familiar to many of us, they have a Prayer Thread. It is unbelievable. They advocate hate, hate and anger and more hate! Then the next thread is a Prayer Thread. Such hypocrites!

I´ve been re-thinking my allowing the ANTIs to comment so negatively on my blog.

I am a bit torn on this. On the one hand I want people to see how very negative and hateful they are so they realize I don´t make up their antics. On the other hand their anger and minimizing of these crimes is very grueling for me at times. I am still contemplating how my blog may best be served. We will see over the weeks ahead.

Dee said...

Poor Liquid.
You failed to read my last post, didnt you.
You have become extremely negative and bitter over the last several days. I have warned you several times to stop your name calling.
Stop trying to intimidate others.

I will delete any and all posts by commenters that try to intimidate others or go off topic.

My blog is here to share news, ideas, thoughts and dreams. It is not your badgering and intimidation tool.

Liquidmicro said...

"BJ05 said...

Interesting. It seems some of the anti's on this site assume that the perps were illegal just because of a hispanic last name.

How so totally White!

November 15, 2008 10:04 PM"


The only one ASSuming anything is you. My post showed nothing about "Illegal Aliens", it did however point out Hispanics. Seems you are the one being racist here in thinking all Hispanics are "Illegal".

By the way, love the comment:
"How so totally White!"

You first must love the skin your in before you can love others.

ultima said...

November 14, 2008

Dear President-Elect Obama,

First of all, as one of the millions of unhyphenated Americans who voted in the recent election, I want to wish you success in dealing with the many important problems facing our nation.
Now that we have witnessed political history being made by your election, we are holding our breath because we have only rumors about what actions you may take on issues of vital importance to the long term survival of our republic as we know it. We have noted that you are reading a book called the “Post-American World’’ by Fareed Zakaria. We hope that this does not mean you have already given up on America. Some obviously believe that is the case as illustrated by the following photo.

As Inauguration Day approaches, our nation will be waiting for action on the many pressing domestic issues.
Your administration will face the onerous task of immigration reform that will affect us for generations, if not forever. Immigration may not have the immediacy of some the other problems but any wrong move on this issue has the potential to do severe long term damage to our nation. Two ill-conceived comprehensive immigration reform bills were introduced in 2006 and 2007 and were defeated. Before concocting these bills, the Senate listened to neither the voice of the American people nor that of the House of Representatives which is always closer to the people than the Senate. The U.S. Senate is the most unrepresentative upper House in the world. Depending on whose ox is being gored, the Senate is either a part of the checks and balances of our government or an obstructionist body that frequently thwarts the will of the people. But for the Senate, we would already have more secure borders and a more forceful policy toward illegal aliens.
Those were the voices of the pro-America, pro-rule of law, pro-secure borders, pro-legal, pro-sovereignty, pro-English and pro-national interest citizens. Those voices represented every walk of life in the U.S. and are representative of mainstream America rather than any elitist point of view. Those voices were ignored. Even though they are unfairly accused of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, nativism, and restrictionism or burdened with some even less complimentary terms, these voices will not be stilled. They are America. Many of them voted for you.
Name-calling, ad hominem attacks, and hyperbole are the first and last resort of those who do not wish to grapple with the real issues of our burgeoning population and finite natural resources. They either won’t admit or refuse to discuss the clear and present danger to American culture, sovereignty, national interest, standard of living and even to the English language itself. It is self-evident that the more immigrants we admit, especially from the Third World and Latin America, the more like those countries America will become in terms of joblessness, poverty, crime, gangs, disease, and corruption. It is not far-fetched to expect that the ultimate outcome will be equilibrium between our standard of living and quality of life and that of the countries of origin of those immigrants, something no one will like, even the immigrants. If their cultures and economies had so much to offer, they clearly would not have found it necessary to make the journey to the U.S.. Mexico alone is responsible for as many immigrants and progeny as the next ten countries of origin combined. Those who refer to the U.S. of the future as Estados Unidos del Norte or Mexico Norte will not be far off base if we continue to turn a blind eye to immigration’s unarmed invasion and its deadly consequences for our country.
It is already happening in California which one author refers to as: “Mexifornia: a State of Becoming”. I recommend that book for your reading list. The author, Dr. Victor Hansen, has lived among Mexicans in California and has taught them at California State University at Fresno where he was a Professor of Classics. His family has intermarried with them. There can be no greater anecdotal authority on the Mexican problem in California than Dr. Hansen. California is a harbinger for the rest of the nation. Some have already coined similar names for other states: Mexas, Mexachusetts, Mexazona and Mexinois. Why do you suppose that is?
One of the principle arguments related to the two failed immigration bills was the question of what is and what is not amnesty? Technically speaking, according to a legal dictionary, if any penalty is imposed, even if it is just a slap on the wrist, that is not amnesty. Although that may be the legal definition of amnesty, the more common understanding of it in the present context is: any proposal that allows illegal aliens to stay and work in the U.S. instead of returning to their homelands and staying there until they can enter our country legally. Some also say that the essential element of any forgiveness on the part of government is the expectation that those involved must come into compliance with the law as it existed at the time of their violation of our borders. This would require either their involuntary removal or their voluntary self-deportation. Actually, it doesn’t make any difference what you call it; what is important are the actual provisions of any proposed bill and whether there will be an effective way to enforce those provisions.
Your unenviable task will be to help craft an immigration reform bill that will satisfy as many of our citizens as possible. While all citizens understand that some of our ancestors were immigrants, they now believe that the word “past” is the operative word in the phrase “our immigrant past”. A vast unsettled continent lay before the Founding Fathers and their successors. Immigration was encouraged and largely uncontrolled. Our natural resources—arable land, timber, water, game, fish and minerals—seemed limitless at that time. Now we know better. Things have changed dramatically since the last major wave of immigrants ended early in the 20th century. Some question whether assimilation is even possible now that modern transportation and communication systems enable illegal aliens and immigrants to keep one foot in the old country and one in the U.S., something that was a near impossibility during the earlier waves of immigration.
I like to use the pre-calculus concept of a “limit” to illustrate the need for a national objective of a stable population to be achieved within the next 20 years. Simply put, the limit of finite natural resources per capita as population grows without bounds is zero. The question then becomes: how much farther down that road should we go? I hope, for the sake of our republic, your answer will be “no más”.
Some believe our American culture, the English language, our national sovereignty and ideals and the national interest are of no import. During the campaign you stated that Americans should learn Spanish and that we needn’t worry that immigrants will not learn English. Although I have studied both Spanish and German and believe all should be free to study whatever languages they think might be useful, I remain very skeptical about the survival of English in the U.S. in the long term without some explicit legislation establishing it as our national language in which all official business of government at all levels will be conducted. You could begin his process by repealing Executive Order 13166. If knowledge of English is a requirement for citizenship, then there should be no need for multi-lingual ballots. Real fluency in written and spoken English should be a requirement for citizenship, not just the knowledge of a few words and phrases. This may mean that some immigrants will not be able to achieve citizenship but their children will. That seems not only fair but in the best interests of our country.
The idea of “the audacity of hope” applies in the area of immigration reform as well as other areas. I share the hope of many Americans that you will find a way to reduce legal immigration to the level of a few years ago, perhaps no more than 200,000 per year, limited to those who possess the skills, intellect, accomplishments and promise we need. This number would, of course, be exclusive of students, tourists, and temporary migrant workers who return to their homelands when the harvest is in.
Population-driven economic growth is ultimately unsustainable. Reducing legal immigration and ending the hemorrhaging at the border will not be without consequences for our economy but the alternative would be even worse. With America and most of the world now in recession this is the perfect time to assure that our immigration policies work for us rather than for foreign nationals and foreign countries who wish to dump their poor in our back yard.
Consider also the following: the UN says Americans produce 20 metric tons of carbon pollutants per capita each year. If we add 300 million more people by the end of this century that will mean another 6 billion tons of pollutants annually at the present rate. Even if we were able, through some technological miracle, to reduce our per capita output by half to the current level of Mexico, we would not have made any progress on reducing the present unacceptable level of output which is seriously jeopardizing our country and the world in many ways. For many reasons--the extinction of species, climate change, dwindling finite natural resources and the preservation of our precious way of life and standard of living—our immigration and tax policies must be structured to stabilize our population now before it is too late and before we are forced into draconian measures like those of China. The major factor in the production of greenhouse gases is people, too many of them. If your Administration proposes to take on the challenge of climate change, I hope you will be forthright about population growth as the most important and overriding factor in carbon pollution. We do need many technological improvements and alternative energy sources but these will be for naught if we allow our population to grow without bounds. No one has been willing to address this issue and few have been willing to even mention it.
Another of your difficult tasks will be to govern from the center, avoiding the influence of ideologues on both the right and the left. I’m not sure where you stand on the issue of socialism. Some have accused you of leaning in that direction. If you aren’t, then you might keep in mind the following quotation:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." – Norman Thomas, American socialist, 1948
With regard to Iraq, it is important for your administration to keep its promise of removing our troops in a "responsible and phased" manner. This may not be as easy as it sounds. There may well be a thin line between “responsible” and “irresponsible” withdrawal. Clearly, as you have suggested, we need to press Iraq's elected leaders (Sunni, Shiite and Kurds) to take responsibility for their own democratic future by spending their $79 billion surplus of oil revenues on their own civil reconstruction especially for public schools, hospitals and essential infrastructure. Our expenditures for reconstruction must end immediately. The League of Arab States should take an increased role in Iraqi security and reconstruction as we withdraw.
The “audacity of hope” must be tempered with reality. Hope, like wishful thinking, will solve few problems. America’s hope has always been that we would have leaders who are capable of taking the long view, asking themselves: what will our country be like 50or 100 years from now if, for example, we fail to enact appropriate immigration and tax policies now to stabilize our population. Our policies in the past too often have been characterized by myopia as politicians chose to look no farther into the future than the next election. Often we are left with yet another illustration of an all too common American mindset: short on vision, mired in denial and unable to comprehend nature’s limits. Please make your Administration one that will not be known for its shortsightedness.

Respectfully submitted,


Ultima

ultima said...

photo

Dee said...

Summary of Ultys letter (for those who dont want to read these poetic, very lengthy (wordy) and misguided letter to President elect Obama:
1. Says unhyphenated americans (ergo "real" americans) are holding their breath about what actions obama will take. (takes a shot at obama for book he is reading and sends him a photo about the suicide death of america on election day 2008)
2. Warns him about stance he takes on Immigration saying CIR bills in 2006, 2007 were illconceived. Takes a shot at the Senate saying they dont represent "real" americans like him.
3. He says ANTIS (he calls them PROs) are the real Americans. Says America is in danger of (white) culture being destroyed as well as standard of living, Engish language, sovereignty, etc.
4. Claims if CIR is enacted the minorities will turn US into 3rd world country, with disease and corruption. Might as well call ourselves MexAmerica.Tells him to read book Mexifornia.
5. Claims his side is not racist, bigots, xenophobic, nativist, restrictionist.
6. Asks him not to be fooled by future CIR. All Amnesty.
7. Support CIR bill crafted by REAL Americans like him. Deport the 12M here. Fake people out by calling it deportation by attrition.
If he does, more fishing water and game for Real Americans like him.
8. And dont forget to limit future immigration to only smart rich white countries. And make sure to pass Official English and change the 14th Ammendment so no birthright citizenship.
--------
Then Ulty overuses Obama´s "Audacity of Hope" to urge these requests:
9. Govern from the center. Who cares that the Republican neocons have gone to the extreme Right for the last 8 years. And who cares that the Republicans used threw the kitchen sink dirty tricks at you.
10. STOP any form of socialism. Just dont do it!
11. Keep the war going in Iraq, but make them rebuild themselves with their own oil money.

ultima said...

The pro-illegal's guide to America's future.

ultima said...

dee's education has been sadly lacking if she doesn't know as I stated that the Senate is the least representative upper House in the world. Everyone except she knows that a small state like RI gets the same number of senators as populous California. She really messed up on this one.

You will also notice that I never used the word "real" to describe what called nonhypenated Americans. My meaning was clear but she chose to ignore that. But just in case she still has that comprehension problem, I am referring to those who have abandoned their prior nationalities and think of themselves as just plain vanilla Americans. She is unable to respond without putting her own spin on things to give them a pejorative meaning that was never intended. I guess I must have struck a nerve and perhaps she realizes the truth of the matter but cannot accept it. Her bod may be here but her mind is in Mexico. She has no regard for the welfare or our country only the welfare of her beloved illegals and all the impoverished masses of the world. Her brain malfunctions when she tries to think beyond those biases to answer the many questions we have posed regarding what America will be like 50 or 100 years from now. One can only conclude that she doesn't care.

ultima said...

In another of Fareed Zakaria's books,"The Future of Freedom", p. 22, he states, "The U.S. Senate is the most unrepresentative upper House in the world, with the lone exception of the House of Lords, which is powerless and in any event on the verge of transformation."

Zakaria writes about illiberal democracy at home and abroad. He points out that the liberals of today are really neolibs. The original meaning of the term liberal in the 19th century sense was concerned with individual economic, political, and religious liberty, which is sometimes referred to as "classical liberalism", not the modern, American sense, which associated it with the welfare state, affirmative action, and other related policies. Classical liberalism is very close to what is now called conservatism.

But then this is all water off a duck's back if it doesn't fit Dee's preconceived notions even if it comes from the same author that Obama is reading.

Dee said...

Ulty,
I colored my hair since this pix!
(wink)

ultima said...
photo

Dee said...

Ooooh Ulty,
Did I strike a nerve???


ultima said...
dee's education has been sadly lacking if she doesn't know as I stated that the Senate is the least representative upper House in the world. ...I never used the word "real" to describe what called nonhypenated Americans. My meaning was clear but she chose to ignore that. ... I guess I must have struck a nerve...

ultima said...

lmj wrote,"to them this seems like justice, just like that only-child that refused to share his/her toys, "GIMME THAT, IT'S MINE!!!"

it's that mentality and stubbornness that ANTI's continue to show in regards to the immigration issue, they refuse to compromise"

Of course, this is easy for lmj to say since he apparently hasn't lost any of his toys yet and maybe won't be around long enough to see them disappear. He would think differently if someone marched in and cleaned out his refrigerator, loaded the food along with his HDTV into his car and drove off with them.

He errs seriously when he suggests no compromises have been offered by the pro-America folks. Dee, please enlighten him. The lack of compromises is endemic in pro-illegal faction: no compromises on effective border security, none on Official English, none on illegal aliens, etc. If I err, please let me know. I am very interested in the compromises the pro-illegal faction might offer. And don't tell me you are in favor of secure borders if you are unwilling to provide all of the tools necessary to achieve that goal. Empty words won't wash.

Stubborness in defense of our country is not a vice. Stubbornness in favor of foreigners and the foreign governments who wish to dump their poor in our back yard is a vice.

I make no apologies for being a nonracist pro-America advocate.

Dee said...

Ulty,
LMJ is one of our YOUNG readers, much younger than you and I, dear.
The younger generation has a different sense of reality than old timers like us.

I remember my Dad working 3 jobs just to put food on the table. I remember facing some of those Jim Crow laws as minorities were prevented from sitting at the counter. LMJ only knows current info, but we have to listen to the younger generation Ulty. We cannot disregard them. Their reality is more current than ours. To the younger generation, their perception is their reality and I don´t think he is very far off.

It is us old timers that have to adapt to this new environment and accept change.

You are NOT going to scare the younger generation with YOUR boogy men. Obama is younger generation too. You will have to adapt.



ultima said...
lmj wrote,"to them this seems like justice, just like that only-child that refused to share his/her toys, "GIMME THAT, IT'S MINE!!!"

it's that mentality and stubbornness that ANTI's continue to show in regards to the immigration issue, they refuse to compromise"

Of course, this is easy for lmj to say since he apparently hasn't lost any of his toys yet and maybe won't be around long enough to see them disappear. He would think differently if someone marched in and cleaned out his refrigerator, loaded the food along with his HDTV into his car and drove off with them.

ultima said...

Analise's diatribe failed to mention the URL or the white supremasist site she
was referring to but all kinds of people visit such sites just as she did. That doesn't make them racist and should not be interpreted as endorsing white supremacist views. It's alway good to know what the fringe groups are saying. She apparently wanted to know herself or she wouldn't have gone there.

She seems to think if one attempts to discuss some of the causative elements for these heinous act by right and left wingers, that that constitutes some sort of endorsement. Most of us have said many times that we do not condone acts of violence against anyone: brown, black, white or green. So please stop with the racist nonsense. As we have patiently explained to you any number of times, opposition to illegal aliens and excessive legal immigration is firmly based on what most will consider the national interest in the long term. What is it about finite natural resources, pollution, extinction of species and climate change that you do not understand. Let's limit the discussion to those issues without the racial overtones you insist on inserting on every occasion. We are still waiting for Dee to delete your posts when you use that term. We have plenty that could be used to describe the pro-illegals that would be very uncomplimentary but we have refrained from that. Can we expect the same restraint from you and a focus on the more substantive issues rather ad hominem attacks on loyal Americans?

Dee said...

Ulty,
Your side does NOT provide compromise. The pro side has compromised and supports secure borders and employer sanctions.
We only ask for some room on the 12M here. You always misrepresent this and say we advocate open borders when we do not.
It is your side that continues to cry for mass deportation of the 12M. You try to sanitize this move by saying it is by attrition, over 4 years, blah blah blah. The end result is the same. Mass Deportation of 12M people and by the way take your kids with you which equals the population of the state of new york. You know as well as I do this is unacceptable!
Your side WILL have to compromise on this. period. the end!


Ultima said...
He errs seriously when he suggests no compromises have been offered by the pro-America folks. Dee, please enlighten him. The lack of compromises is endemic in pro-illegal faction: no compromises on effective border security, none on Official English, none on illegal aliens, etc. If I err, please let me know. I am very interested in the compromises the pro-illegal faction might offer. And don't tell me you are in favor of secure borders if you are unwilling to provide all of the tools necessary to achieve that goal. Empty words won't wash.

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"I remember my Dad working 3 jobs just to put food on the table."

As you know, my family was poor too. There were eight children in a small house. I can remember when my Dad was lucky to earn $2,000 per year. Our salvation was a large garden in which we all worked to make sure we had food to eat.

I don't mind adapting but I don't believe that should mean giving our country away to foreigners. I'm sure you enjoy your life in the suburbs but have you considered how a population of 600 million or might affect that life or that of your children and grandchildren. I venture to say that you haven't shown any signs that you have. As a young person, that is something lmj should be thinking about instead of short term altruism.

Take a look at my counter cartoon referenced above.

Analisa said...

Dee,

Thank you for your words of support and for sticking up for me. I apologize for popping in and then leaving. I have an incredibly busy life. When I'm not teaching, I'm attending classes myself. I'm a graduate student, and I work full time. But I just want to say this: I think you are an amazing woman - you are so very courageous to listen to these hateful voices every single day and try to reason with them. I can see how this would wear on a person over time.

That said, I vote to let the ANTIs speak. I believe that they expose their own racist agenda through their own words: the rhetoric of hate. I believe that any thinking person will be turned off by the obvious ignorance of the white supremacist mentality of the ANTIs - not to mention their total lack of compassion. Any thinking person can recognize racism when they hear it. But, like you, I am concerned about the younger people who are less secure about themselves. Some white teenagers may be influenced by the ANTIs to hate Latinos - it doesn't matter whether they are legal or undocumented. I also worry that about the self-esteem of young Latinos - hopefully, they won't waste their time listening to this dreck (that is, the rants by the ANTIs). Michelle Obama said that her mother told her that confidence comes from within. Every minority child should be encouraged to believe in his or her worth.

Whatever you decide to do, I support you, Dee. Just personally, I think the ANTIs should be allowed to have their say. But I would also like to hear other voices on here: namely, the voices of the undocumented. I would like them to be able to come out of the shadows and be seen for who they are: beautiful human beings with potential and heart...and with so much to offer this country. Thank you, Dee, for your courage, your deep compassion and your humanity.

Abrazos,
Analisa

Anonymous said...

analisa, your post was filled with nothing but lies about the anti's who post in here.

Analisa said...

Dee,

I thought I'd share some good news for a change. My mother sent me this inspiring article about an undocumented worker who became a neurosurgeon: Dr. Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa. At the age of 19, he hopped a border fence from Mexico into the United States. He started out as a migrant farmworker and a painter. But he worked hard, taking night courses and studying English in his spare time. He eventually got a scholarship to attend U.C. Berkeley. Following CAL (my alma mater), he went on to John Hopkins University where he studied medicine. Now, he is a celebrated neurosurgeon and researcher who has won numerous awards. Here's the url:

Dr. Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa

Here is a man who has contributed so much to this country. Yet, if the ANTIs had had their way, he would have been kept out.

Analisa

btw, I'm not suggesting that anyone who is undocumented use their real name. But I would love to hear their voices.

ultima said...

Analise wrote,"That said, I vote to let the ANTIs speak."

Sorry but you don't get to vote on this. Have you forgotten so soon that the 1st amendment pertains to everyone not just neolibs and pro-illegals.

Analisa said...

oh, and here's another reason to let the ANTIs speak: when they contradict themselves by writing statements like the one ultima just posted. it's amusing. thanks for the laugh :-)

Analisa said...

correction: I meant to write that Dr. Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa attended Harvard after CAL. He works at Johns Hopkins Medical Center.

ultima said...

analisa wrote, "you are so very courageous to listen to these hateful voices every single day and try to reason with them."

Not nearly as courageous as those who have had to bear your demented ravings about racism and still carry on as loyal Americans who want only the best for our country against the stupendous myopia of the radical leftwingers.

So you are a graduate student. Gee, since I worked for many years at a major university, I thought one of the basic requirements of a goog higher education is to have an open mind. You clearly have a closed mind, unable to see any point of view but your own and you justify this by calling those you disagree with "racist". You obviously do not even know the meaning of that term or you would be using it so loosely. Dee used to complain when anyone suggested such a group judgment about illegal aliens. Now here you are using that same broad brush and we hear not a whimper from Dee. So much for her so-called blog rules and basic concepts of intellectual inquiry and fairness. I am sorely disappointed in both of you. I expect better from those who purport to be intelligent human beings capable of examining issues from every point of view with objectivity and without name calling.

analisa said...

But I have to admit ultima makes some good points, just have to be honest.

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "when they contradict themselves".

Sorry but no cigar. Any contradiction is purely a figment of your imagination. Besides, anyone's vocabulary that is limited to "racist" is hardly in a position to make any judgment.

Analisa said...

Someone is posting as me - probably Pat who has done this before. For the record, I did not say the following:

"But I have to admit ultima makes some good points, just have to be honest." - Patriot

I am leaving this blog for the night so if anyone else posts as Analisa, it isn't me. Have a peaceful night, everyone.

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "Dr. Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa

Here is a man who has contributed so much to this country. Yet, if the ANTIs had had their way, he would have been kept out."

Just think of how much good he could have done for his own country. Do you think the U.S. has the greater need? I know about Hinijosa!

Just think, if all those who have learned about life in the U.S. returned to their homelands, how much good they could do to improve their economies, their government, reduce poverty, reduce crime, improve farming and construction methods,etc. Those countries need the help of their most productive workers. We are glad to have them if they are legal immigrants and offer the skills, intellect, and innovation we need.

Analisa said...

I did not say the following either, although I do believe in amnesty and Spanish is a beautiful language. You should learn it, Ultima...it would help you to be less provincial. These comments are yours Ultima:

"I am not a racist. I do think my people should receive amnesty through CIR. I do think this country's official languages should be English and Spanish. Sorry, but this is what I believe."

sorry Patriot. it was ultima posing as me...he took a page from your book. and now, I really am out of here (anyone posing as Analisa after this is a fake, but I suppose I can't expect better behavior from people like this.

Analisa

ultima said...

"unhyphenated americans (ergo Americans who have no need to emphasize their ethnicity or dual allegiance, who are just plain vanilla Americans from mainstreet USA and even the backstreets. People for whom the word "American" says it all.

I've almost gotten used to Dee's distortions and spins. She is capable of better on her better days.

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "Someone is posting as me - probably Pat who has done this before. For the record, I did not say the following:

"But I have to admit ultima makes some good points, just have to be honest." - Patriot'

That's too bad. And here I thought this was a glimmer of the openmindedness I had mentioned as an appropriate and necessary trait of a graduate student in search of knowledge. I hope you get over this business of respecting only your baised viewpoint before you have to write your thesis and support it with authoritative references rather than just name calling or opinion.

ultima said...

'(takes a shot at obama for book he is reading "

I merely mentioned it. I plan to read it myself and am already reading another by the same author, Fareed Zakaria, "The Future of Freedom".

For those interested in foreign policy, another good read is, "Warrior Politics" by Robert D. Kaplan which I am also reading.

ultima said...

"Takes a shot at the Senate saying they dont represent "real" americans like him."

Again DEE insults the readers' intelligence by inserting her own distortions without letting the reader know "real" is her interpretation not my words. I should think most readers would prefer to read the original text rather than Dee's homespun version. Most have no need of her distortions or interpretations. I cited a quotation from Zakaria's book that makes clear exactly what I repeated about the senate. I guess if Zakaria is good reading for Obama, Dee ought to give his words a little more respect but she has a little trouble with that concept from time to time since she allows Analisa's rants about racism. She apparently has not respect for her other posters, only those who agree with her. Sad, really sad!

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "sorry Patriot. it was ultima posing as me...he took a page from your book. and now, I really am out of here (anyone posing as Analisa after this is a fake, but I suppose I can't expect better behavior from people like this."

What more trash talk? I have never posted under any other name on this site than "ultima". I think Dee would support me on that statement. She knows I have no need to use another person's moniker. This just proves the point with regard to Analisa, she is into unsupported accusations and insults, nothing more, no substance. I would like to say, "I'm sorry to see you go, Analisa." But I don't think I can do that in good conscience unless you are prepared to forego your wild accusations and insults to those you disagree with. In many ways I pity you for your tunnel vision and inability to be objective about the immigation and illegal aliens problem without flying off the handle and calling everyone a racist. If you would open your mind, you could actually learn something here from the pro-America folks. But you seem to have a mental block of major proportions that makes it impossible for you to see the many good and legitimate reasons for opposing ilegal aliens and excessive legal immigration. You must be living in the past when there was a vast unsettled continent with what seemed to be limitless resources. Those days are gone forever. Petroleum production in the U.S. peaked way back in the 1970s. Water is a scarce resource here in the Southwest. But I won't go on because I know you are not interested in such facts and will continue to hide your ignorance behind your favorite term, "racist".

ultima said...

"Summary of Ultys letter"

My letter needs no summarization, abridgement or interpretation or spin. Those who wish to read it are fully capable of doing their own interpretation without you patronizing them with your own spin and insertions.

The Arizonian said...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6115223.html

A system's fatal flaws

Thousands of inmates admit they're in the U.S. illegally, but even those convicted of violent crimes are often released right back onto Houston's streets
By SUSAN CARROLL
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
Nov. 16, 2008, 7:33AM
Mayra Beltran Chronicle

Inmates are interviewed by jailers in the booking office at the Harris County Jail, where officers maintain a database of inmates who tell jailers during booking that they are in the U.S. illegally.

Federal immigration officials allowed scores of violent criminals — some ordered deported decades ago — to walk away from Harris County Jail despite the inmates' admission to local authorities that they were in the country illegally, a Houston Chronicle investigation found.

A review of thousands of criminal and immigration records shows that Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials didn't file the paperwork to detain roughly 75 percent of the more than 3,500 inmates who told jailers during the booking process that they were in the U.S. illegally.

Although most of the inmates released from custody were accused of minor crimes, hundreds of convicted felons — including child molesters, rapists and drug dealers — also managed to avoid deportation after serving time in Harris County's jails, according to the Chronicle review, which was based on documents filed over a period of eight months starting in June 2007, the earliest immigration records available.

Other key findings in the investigation include:

•In 177 cases reviewed by the Chronicle, inmates who were released from jail after admitting to being in the country illegally later were charged with additional crimes. More than half of those charges were felonies, including aggravated sexual assault of a child and capital murder.
•About 11 percent of the 3,500 inmates in the review had three or more prior convictions in Harris County. Many had repeatedly cycled through the system despite a history of violence and, in some cases, outstanding deportation orders.
The investigation found that the federal government's system to identify and deport illegal immigrants in Harris County Jail is overwhelmed and understaffed. Gaps in the system have allowed some convicted criminals to avoid detection by immigration officials despite being previously deported. The problems are national in scope, fueled by a shortage of money and manpower.

In reaction to the Chronicle's findings, U.S. Rep. Ted Poe, R-Humble, said ICE needs more resources to target immigrants convicted of crimes.

"There's no question about it," Poe said. "Criminals from foreign countries who get caught after committing a crime and prosecuted should go to the top of the list of people we deport."

ICE removed 107,000 convicted criminals from the U.S. in the 2008 fiscal year, which ended in September. But during the same time frame, ICE sent home more than two times as many illegal immigrants without criminal records, prompting criticism from some members of Congress.

Kenneth Landgrebe, ICE's field office director for detention and removal in Houston, said officials are doing the best they can with the resources they have. ICE trained nine Harris County jailers this summer through a federal program that empowers local law enforcement to act as immigration agents.

The Houston ICE office set a record by removing 8,226 illegal immigrants with criminal records from Southeast Texas last year, an increase of about 7.5 percent from fiscal 2007.

"No agency has enough law enforcement officers to do the job the way they'd like," Landgrebe said. "If you look at law enforcement in general — at Houston or New York City or Los Angeles police — do they apprehend every criminal that commits a crime? No. Do they arrest every person that speeds in a traffic zone? No.

"We have to prioritize what we handle," Landgrebe said.

Missed opportunities
ICE officials estimated that between 300,000 and 450,000 inmates incarcerated in the U.S. are eligible for deportation each year.

Though ICE has improved screening in federal and state prisons in recent years, the agency estimates it screens inmates in only about 10 percent of the nation's jails.

This spring, ICE officials announced a plan to identify and deport the most serious offenders in the nation's prisons and jails, estimating it would cost between $930 million and $1 billion and take about 3 1/2 years.

Congress is pressuring ICE to move faster.

"The present situation is unacceptable," said Rep. David Price, D-N.C., chairman of the House Homeland Security appropriations committee.

"The highest priority for ICE should be deporting people who have proven their ability and their willingness to do us harm. Immigration is a very, very contentious issue, but this seems to be one thing almost everyone agrees is a priority."

Yet, the Chronicle's review found hundreds of missed opportunities to deport convicted criminals, perpetuating a cycle of crime and violence.

•Armando De La Cruz, a Mexican national, told jailers on two occasions in 2007 that he was undocumented. Both times, he was convicted of assaulting his wife and released after serving his jail time. De La Cruz is now back in Harris County Jail, charged with raping a woman at knife point behind a southeast Houston apartment complex in July, and attempting to rape another woman less than a week later. His defense attorney, Ricardo Gonzalez, did not return phone calls.
•Pedro Alvarez, a convicted sex offender from El Salvador who was first deported in 1991, racked up eight convictions in Harris County over a span of two decades and was allowed to walk free from jail multiple times — as recently as the spring of 2007. Immigration officials finally charged him with re-entry after deportation in February. Sandra Zamora Zayas, the attorney who represented Alvarez in federal court in South Texas, did not return phone messages.
"It's just amazing how long it took them to catch up with him," the mother of a 5-year-old girl Alvarez sexually assaulted in 1988 said in an interview with the Chronicle, after learning about Alvarez's extended criminal history.

'Never lied about who I am'
Miguel Mejia Rodriguez, 36, is locked up on the fifth floor of the San Jacinto Jail downtown, accused of raping and sodomizing a second-grader.

It is the fourth time in 12 years that Rodriguez, an unemployed drifter from Zacatecas, Mexico, has landed in Harris County Jail. Over the years, Rodriguez has served time for drug possession, theft, trespassing and indecent exposure. He told jailers he was in the country illegally in December 2006, after a security guard caught him touching himself in an apartment complex parking lot, records show.

But ICE officials did not file paperwork to detain Rodriguez. He was released after serving his 25-day sentence.

"I never lied about who I am, or where I'm from. I'm 100 percent Mexican," Rodriguez said in a jail interview with the Chronicle in September, after he was accused of the rape and sodomy of a 7-year-old.

According to court records, the girl told a friend Rodriguez started abusing her after her mother died in 2005, while he was living with her family.

The girl was hospitalized and treated for syphilis, court records show. In an interview with Houston police detectives, Rodriguez admitted to contracting syphilis from a woman he met in a Houston cantina, but he denied raping the girl. He said she was a "troublemaker" who lied because he punished her when she misbehaved.

When he was arrested on the sexual assault charge in July 2007, Rodriguez again told jailers he was in the country illegally, records show. In June, nearly a year after his arrest, ICE officials filed paperwork to detain Rodriguez, who is scheduled for trial in December.

Deadly consequences
Katherine Anne Bridges, deaf and mute, was just 19 in the fall of 2004 when she told Harris County authorities that Jeremias Fuentes, her boyfriend, tried to grab their 6-month-old baby boy from her arms and kicked her in the face. He hid her emergency phone so she couldn't call for help. Fuentes was sentenced to 20 days in jail.

Nearly three years later, in August 2007, Fuentes was arrested again, suspected of interfering with case workers trying to interview Bridges about abuse allegations. Fuentes, 36, told jailers he was an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, records show. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail. He was released after ICE didn't file paperwork to detain him.

On the morning of Nov. 26, 2007, a medical examiner puzzled over the writing scrawled on Bridges' palm. It read in part: "Payback because ... help me."

The evening before, Bridges' body had been found facedown in the bedroom closet of her southwest Houston apartment complex. She had blood in her brown hair and a dozen stab wounds on her face, neck, chest and back. A knife rested on the baby crib.

Detectives questioned Fuentes, who admitted he stabbed Bridges, but he said it was self-defense. In December, immigration officials filed the paperwork to detain Fuentes, who declined a request for a jail interview. He is scheduled for trial in February.

Andy Kahan, director of the Houston Mayor Crime Victims Office, said he hoped Bridges' case could be a ''catalyst for change" and encourage local authorities to work more closely with ICE to ensure inmates with violent criminal histories are vetted before release.

"There were numerous opportunities to do the correct thing, and that's have him deported, and that didn't happen. And as a result, a woman paid dearly with her life," Kahan said.

Matthew Baker, an assistant field office director for ICE in Houston, said agents try to screen out as many violent criminals as possible to avoid preventable crimes. Many illegal immigrants are identified by ICE in the state's prison system, he added, even if they are not caught while in jail.

"No one can measure the cases where we picked up and removed someone and prevented that carjacking or that drunk driving accident that kills a family," Baker said. "There are hundreds of thousands of incidents that we prevent every year; those are not measured because they don't happen."

Facts vs. fears
While the Chronicle's review found cases involving hardened criminals who slipped through the deportation net, the investigation also revealed that 43 percent of suspects who were arrested and admitted being in the country illegally were charged with misdemeanors and had no prior criminal record in Harris County.

Immigrant advocates cautioned against stereotyping illegal immigrants based on high-profile cases. Most research has found that recent immigrants are far less likely than their U.S.-born counterparts to commit crimes and end up in prison.

In Texas, foreign nationals made up approximately 15 percent of the state's population in 2005, and about 7 percent of state prison offenders.

"Many people see it as a profound insult when someone who is here without permission commits a heinous crime," said Rebecca Bernhardt, director of policy development for the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas. "To be outraged at the individual who committed that crime is an appropriate response. But to be angry at everybody who is just here trying to work to support their family and comes from the same background as that defendant is a mistake."

Asking about status
The nation's system for identifying and deporting immigrants convicted of crimes is largely secretive. ICE officials refuse to disclose the names or basic immigration history of people detained and marked for deportation, citing privacy protections in federal law.

To better understand how ICE screens inmates, the Chronicle obtained a copy of a database, maintained by the Harris County Sheriff's Office, of inmates who tell jailers during booking that they are in the U.S. illegally.

The Sheriff's Office voluntarily started questioning inmates about their legal status and created the database in September 2006, after a previously deported felon killed Houston police officer Rodney Johnson. During the booking process, inmates are asked whether they are in the country illegally. If they answer 'yes,' their name and jail ID number is entered into a database that is shared with ICE agents in Houston.

The Chronicle compared the entries in the Sheriff's Office database with immigration ''holds" placed by ICE with the Sheriff's Office. An immigration hold is essentially a request by ICE agents that law enforcement notify them before releasing an inmate. ICE officials confirmed that jailers notify them before releasing immigrants who are marked for possible deportation.

The Houston Police Department, which runs the city's jails, notifies ICE only about suspects with immigration warrants and previously deported felons.

Of the more than 80,000 bookings into Harris County Jail during the review period, about 3,500 — less than 5 percent — admitted to being in the country illegally. ICE filed paperwork to detain roughly 900 of the 3,500. During the review period, the agency also filed paperwork to detain 2,500 suspects not included in the database, indicating that many immigrants who are eligible for deportation do not disclose that they are here illegally.

ICE, however, could not confirm whether the inmates marked for ''holds" actually were deported.

Landgrebe, the ICE official, also questioned the quality of the information in the Sheriff's Office database, because it was based only on inmate responses and was entered by some jailers without immigration training.

More removals
ICE officials would not answer specific questions about ICE staffing at the Harris County or city jails but said screening has improved in recent months. In October, the Sheriff's Office started testing a Homeland Security database that gives jailers access to millions of immigration records. The county's participation in the federal government's 287(g) program, which trains jailers to act as immigration agents, also is expected to help improve screening, ICE officials said.

Harris County Sheriff-elect Adrian Garcia, who defeated incumbent Tommy Thomas in the November general election, said he plans to evaluate the office's participation in the program after he takes office in January.

Thomas said he believes the program is necessary — at least until ICE has the resources to improve screening.

''In a perfect world, I'd like to see our borders secured to where we have someone we find to be here illegally, we turn them over to ICE and have them deported," Thomas said. ''But that's not something that's happening at this day and time."

Chronicle reporter Chase Davis contributed to this report.

Dee said...

Ulty,

Your meaning is very clear. No spin needed.
When you say Vanilla Americans as the "real" Americans, we know you do not mean Mocha, Chocolate,lemon or cherry.

Ultima said....
I am referring to those who have abandoned their prior nationalities and think of themselves as just plain vanilla Americans.

Dee said...

Ulty,
Liquid made it clear. She visited Hran´s site. You know, the announced White Nationalist that visits here sometimes.
I visited there too.
Some of the closeted WNs that visit here outed themselves on that site. That is what she was saying.

ultima said...
Analise's diatribe failed to mention the URL or the white supremasist site she
was referring to

Dee said...

Analisa,
I would like to hear from them too. I think most of them live in fear and are afraid to post. Frankly I don´t blame them. We did have one that posted occassionally. She was very tough and angry.
Dave´s friend might be persuaded to post. Perhaps Dave will ask.

Analisa said..
But I would also like to hear other voices on here: namely, the voices of the undocumented.

Dee said...

Ulty,
What you and others fail to acknowledge is there are racist sites and many of them. Plus we have some admitted White Nationalists that visit here.
No one said you personally were a racist Ultima. But there are plenty on your side that are.
Hran proudly admits he is a White Nationalist. He finds nothing wrong with it.
Voice of the People is linked to White Nationalists. Digger´s Realm - Dan Amato and PA Pundits Wendy M. are leaders and speakers of VoP and did much of the organizing in the Shenandoah Murder case.
The young murderer in the Long Island case had a swastika tattoo and on myspace was admittedly a member of the White Nationalists.

All of this has been well reported, even on their own websites.

There is no denying this.

The FBI is reporting these groups are growing, are using Immigration as a rallying cry, there is a significant increase in HATE Crimes against ALL Latinos, and these groups are also angry and targetting President elect Obama.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Perhaps not you but you know as well as I do one of our Anons is a rascal. He constantly posts under other names (just as he did for analisa) and pokes jabs at me saying I am everyone from Analisa to LMJ to you or liquid or anyone else who posts here. He is just ridiculous. I usually just delete his silliness.


Ultima said..
What more trash talk? I have never posted under any other name on this site than "ultima". I think Dee would support me on that statement. She knows I have no need to use another person's moniker.

Dee said...

Ulty,
The younger generation never listen to us older folks if we talk down to them and minimize their perspective. We need to open our ears and hear what they are saying.
Your name calling below does not show your open mindedness nor your willingness to listen.

Ultima said..
.. your wild accusations and insults to those you disagree with.
.. I pity you for your tunnel vision and inability to be objective about the immigation and illegal aliens problem without flying off the handle
.. calling everyone a racist.
.. open your mind, you could actually learn something here from the pro-America folks.
...a mental block of major proportions that makes it impossible for you to see the many good and legitimate reasons for opposing ilegal aliens and excessive legal immigration.
..You must be living in the past

Anonymous said...

there are good white nationalists and bad white nationalists. the bad white nationalits are the racists ones. the good white nationalists are only protecting the interests of whites in this country just as the brown nationalists like yourself are protecting your ethnic group's interests. only the brown nationalsists take it beyond reason and that is protecting the interests of your ethnic kind that are here illegally. neither the bad nor the good white nationalists do that.

you fail to seperate the good white nationalists from the bad white nationalists. you call them all racists, especially if they object to illegal immigration.

Dee said...

AZ,
Your articles proves the need for CIR. CIR will not only secure borders and sanction the exploitive employers, but will also bring the 12M out of the shadows. Those felony free can register. Those that are felonious criminals will be sent to their country of origin.

We need CIR now!

Dee said...

Anon,
This is like saying there is good KKK and bad KKK, good terrorist and bad terrorists.
Of course they are racists, by their very definition!
Come on!!

Anonymous said...
there are good white nationalists and bad white nationalists. the bad white nationalits are the racists ones.

Dee said...

Anon,
More silliness on your part.
White nationalists-supremists are racist and want everyone of color out!

Minorities, such as myself, are WE THE PEOPLE and we want "Liberty and Justice for ALL!"
and The pursuit of "Life, Liberty and Happiness!

EQUALITY!!!

We dont think we are Better like the WNs. We KNOW we are EQUAL!!!

It is so hard for people like you to understand terms like Equality, Freedom, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness!


Anonymous said..
only the brown nationalsists take it beyond reason and that is protecting the interests of your ethnic kind that are here illegally. neither the bad nor the good white nationalists do that.

Dee said...

There was a song in the musical Oklahoma that voices what the PROs are saying:

“I don’t say I’m no better
than anybody else, but I’ll be damned if I ain’t jest as good!”

Dee said...

Andit it is this statement that galls White Nationalists!

I recall some of the comments on some of their boards saying, "And those Mexxkins are uppity now. They had the gall to look me in the eye!"

Anonymous said...

i see you fail to comprehend my statements. a white person can be in favor of protecting their ethnic kind's interests and not be a racist or a KKK. since the NCLR and the NAACP protects the interests of the browns and blacks does that make them racists in your eyes then? by your rationale it does! no, good white nationalists do not define themselves as racists by their own words as you are claiming, the bad ones do however. again, you fail to seperate the two groups.

there are no good terrorists and bad terrorists that is an entirely different issue with a different agenda. what a silly analogy.

Anonymous said...

Anon,
"More silliness on your part.
White nationalists-supremists are racist and want everyone of color out!"

again, you fail to seperate the good white nationalists from the bad ones. it is only the bad ones that want a complete white country, not the good ones. are you saying that white people that are good white nationalists that only want to protect their interests in this country do not exist or that they don't have the same right to protect their race as you are doing with yours? is there a double standard here? i think so.

"Minorities, such as myself, are WE THE PEOPLE and we want "Liberty and Justice for ALL!"
and The pursuit of "Life, Liberty and Happiness"

EQUALITY!!!

and minorities should have equality, life liberty and happiness but that doesn't apply to those here illegally in our country. you do have a problem seperating groups, don't you?

"We dont think we are Better like the WNs. We KNOW we are EQUAL!!!"

yes, you equally protect your ethnic interests just as whites should be able to protect theirs. that doesn't mean that good white nationalists think they are superior. it just means we should be equal also. afterall, you are preaching equality, aren't you?

"It is so hard for people like you to understand terms like Equality, Freedom, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness!"

i fully understand and agree with the rights of equality, freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all american CITIZENS.

Dee said...

Anon,
The nuns in Catholic elementary school taught us:

There is A RAT in separate!

Dee said...

Anon,
Perhaps this will help you too:

"White nationalism is a political ideology which advocates a racial definition (or redefinition) of national identity for white people, in opposition to multiculturalism. The contemporary White Nationalist Movement in the United States is a reaction to the decline (based on US census projections) in white demographics, politics and culture. According to Samuel Francis, a key white nationalist writer, it is "a movement that REJECTS EQUALITY as an ideal"

Dee said...

MORE....

Supporters say they stand for racial self-preservation and claim culture itself is a product of race.[12] As a result, according to Huntington, they say the demographic shift in the US towards NON-whites brings a new culture that is intellectually and morally INFERIOR.[13] With it comes affirmative action, immigrant ghettos and declining educational standards.[14] By challenging established policy on immigration, civil rights and racial integration, they seek to build bridges with moderately conservative white citizens.[15]

White separatism and supremacism are two smaller subgroups within white nationalism.[5] The former seek a separate white nation-state, while the latter add ideas from social Darwinism and Nazism to their ideology.[5] Some white nationalists deny they are in either category.[5] Both schools of thought generally avoid the term "supremacy", saying it has negative connotations.[16]

LMJ said...

"Dee,

Thank you for your words of support and for sticking up for me..... But I just want to say this: I think you are an amazing woman - you are so very courageous to listen to these hateful voices every single day and try to reason with them. I can see how this would wear on a person over time."

AMEN ANALISA!!!

And if I had any say, I have to agree, let the ANTI's keep posting, what's funny is when I know it's an ANTI post I just skip past it anyway (especially ultima's, it's like taking a sleeping drug)

But it's just as Dee said, when ANTI's speak, you just can't make-up this kind of reality

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
'Those felony free can register. Those that are felonious criminals will be sent to their country of origin.'

But those felonious criminals are NOT being sent to their country of origin now....

What will another set of laws change?

ultima said...

"But it's just as Dee said, when ANTI's speak, you just can't make-up this kind of reality"

That's because you don't have to. Reality is reality, and nonsense is nonsense, the kind we get from the pro-illegals, anti-Americans.

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "These comments are yours Ultima:

"I am not a racist. I do think my people should receive amnesty through CIR. I do think this country's official languages should be English and Spanish. Sorry, but this is what I believe."

I didn't write any of that.

ultima said...

lmj wrote,"I just skip past it anyway "

This is a sign of a small mind, incapable of handling fresh ideas and different perspectives. There are perfectly legitimate ideas other than your own. You should acquaint yourself with them and give them some real thought. I feel sorry for you since you have been unable to do so.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Both schools of thought generally avoid the term "supremacy", saying it has negative connotations."

A little like the following quote, wouldn't you say?

"Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University; "We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos . . .”

Liquidmicro said...

Don't waste your argument Anon, Dee is a Cosmopolite. When you say that, like myself, you are white and a nationalist, she presumes the only thing she knows, racism. However she fails to understand the concepts of each: Nationalism can refer to an ideology, sentiment, a form of culture, or a social movement that focuses on the nation.

Nationalism as ideology includes ethical principles: that the moral duties of individuals to fellow members of the nation override those to non-members. Nationalism claims that national loyalty, in case of conflict, overrides local loyalties, and all other loyalties to family, friends, profession, religion, or class.

Here is the definition of Dee:
In the Western world the most comprehensive current ideological alternative to nationalism is cosmopolitanism. Ethical cosmopolitanism rejects one of the basic ethical principles of nationalism: that humans owe more duties to a fellow member of the nation, than to a non-member. It rejects such important nationalist values as national identity and national loyalty. However, there is also a political cosmopolitanism, which has a geopolitical program to match that of nationalism: it seeks some form of world state, with a world government. Very few people openly and explicitly support the establishment of a global state, but political cosmopolitanism has influenced the development of international criminal law, and the erosion of the status of national sovereignty. In turn, nationalists are deeply suspicious of cosmopolitan attitudes, which they equate with eradication of diverse national cultures.

While internationalism in the cosmopolitanist context by definition implies cooperation among nations and states, and therefore the existence of nations, proletarian internationalism is different, in that it calls for the international working class to follow its brethren in other countries irrespective of the activities or pressures of the national government of a particular sector of that class. Meanwhile, most (but not all) anarchists reject nation-states on the basis of self-determination of the majority social class, and thus reject nationalism. Instead of nations, anarchists usually advocate the creation of cooperative societies based on free association and mutual aid without regard to ethnicity or race.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Ulty,

Your meaning is very clear. No spin needed.
When you say Vanilla Americans as the "real" Americans, we know you do not mean Mocha, Chocolate,lemon or cherry.

Its always about race isn't it Dee. The 'vanilla' is also a plain ice cream, meaning no color equated to it, although it is white, a neutral color when there is no blank or clear color, incorporating all. But then with your mindset, you can't grasp the concepts used.

ultima said...

"The former seek a separate white nation-state"

My gosh, it sounds like the Aztlanista/MEChA brown agenda doesn't it?

ultima said...

Analisa wrote, "Analisa wrote, "sorry Patriot. it was ultima posing as me...he took a page from your book."

This is unadulterated BS. Analisa needs to apologize for a false accusation. I post only under my own identity.

ultima said...

"Its always about race isn't it Dee. The 'vanilla' is also a plain ice cream, meaning no color equated to it, "

Yes, plain vanilla merely means ordinary,as in "ordinary American citizens".

Dee said...

AZ,
Currently ICE is wasting billions of dollars, and so is Arpaio, by Racial Profiling. ICE swoops down during their raids and sends hard working people to the crony owned detention centers. GEO Group is thriving in our tax dollars. Arpaio and his crew are wrecking havoc on innocent Latino neighborhoods wasting millions.
If they focused on only felonious criminals they could do the job right and save billions.


The Arizonian said...
But those felonious criminals are NOT being sent to their country of origin now....

What will another set of laws change?

Dee said...

Ulty,
Your insults of other people makes you appear inadequate and insecure.


ultima said...
.That's because you don't have to. Reality is reality, and nonsense is nonsense, the kind we get from the pro-illegals, anti-Americans.
.Reality is reality, and nonsense is nonsense, the kind we get from the pro-illegals, anti-Americans.

Anonymous said...

it is never a waste of our tax dollars to have a law enforcement agency that seeks out law breakers in our country, whether it be for serious crimes or less serious ones. it is no more of a waste of money than having fire departments all across the country. these agencies are in place to protect american citizens.

not all of those in our country illegally are hard workers any more then all citizens are hard workers but their work ethics are irrelevant anyway if they are in our country illegally. how can it be determined if someone has a felony record or not unless one is asked for their identity to compare to a police database? besides, it doesn't matter if one is a petty thief, a murderer or here in violation of our immigration laws, each has to pay the appropriate price for each one of these infractions of our laws.

mr. ultima seems to be a civil chap and i note his accusation of being insulting while others have done likewise including the creator of this blog, yet accusations only seem to be directed at certain people in here. why is that?

Dee said...

Liquid,
Your insults waste everyone´s time!


Liquid said..
you can't grasp the concepts used.

Dee said...

Anon,
Interesting. You overlook ultima´s and liquid´s insults and you chastise me for pointing out their insults.
I notice you seem to have a preference towards White Nationalism.

Are you new to my site? If so, tell us about you. Give yourself a name. Any name will do. John. Nancy. Any name, just so we can differentiate you from the other anons. Be brave.


Anonymous said...
mr. ultima seems to be a civil chap and i note his accusation of being insulting while others have done likewise including the creator of this blog, yet accusations only seem to be directed at certain people in here. why is that?

ultima said...

dee wrote, "You overlook ultima´s and liquid´s insults and you chastise me for pointing out their insults."

What insults? Can you find any that fall in the same category as "racist"?
Let's see your list.

ultima said...

"how can it be determined if someone has a felony record or not unless one is asked for their identity to compare to a police database? "

This is a very important point. I suggested many times, somewhat facetiously, that we could ask all the miscreants to sew a big scarlet letter C on their clothing so we can easily identify them and deport them. Unfortunately, even if that were possible, they would be back within 24 hours to create more mischief. Dee sometimes appears to think this is an easy job that can be done without the cooperation of cities and police. Similarly, she believes that we can have secure borders by merely increasing border infrastructure and staffing while leaving anyone who escapes the immediate environs of the border home free. In other words, she does not see the connection between effective internal enforcement through E-verification and secure borders whereas I believe both are essential. I think you could verify this by asking any border patrol agent what it would take and what the role of internal enforcement is.

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"Your insults of other people makes you appear inadequate and insecure."

I'm sorry if you feel the term "pro-illegal" is an insult. I just thought it was calling a spade a spade, as it were. Now, if I ever use a term as heinous as "racist" to insult you, I will be happy to apologize, however, we all do know your ethnocentricity but I hope you don't consider that the equivalent of "racist".

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Your insults of other people makes you appear inadequate and insecure."

OMG, you wouldn't be insulting me now, would you? I am quite secure and I believe I have demonstrated my adequacy here and elsewhere many times. Try again for a more fitting insult if you must.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Reality is reality, and nonsense is nonsense, the kind we get from the pro-illegals, anti-Americans."

Perhaps you are right. The word nonsense, however, is a kinder word than "disloyal", although I have used that word too. Not because I choose to insult you but because the defintion of disloyal seems to fit those who favor foreigners over their brethren citizens, foreign countries over their own, and even their own ethnicity to the more general category of "American".

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Your insults of other people makes you appear inadequate and insecure."

I suppose I do tend to lapse into what you consider to be insults but they are of a much lesser variety than those you readily permit from others, and yourself, as noted in your post above. My tendency in that direction most recently has been prompted by Analisa unrestrained accusations of racism. Sometimes it is the result of frustration when facts well-presented are ignored in favor of more insults.

Perhaps if you were willing to deal with those facts and dial down the rhetoric of folks like Analisa, the climate would improve. Too often you fail to respond to facts because you have no substantive counter argument.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
Your insults waste everyone´s time!



I only pointed out you failed to get Ultimas concept. As usual, you haveno argument, fail to argue the point, and label everything you don't agree with as 'racist' and now 'insults'. Whats bad is, you don't even see you are becoming what you claim others as being.

I also note you failed to listen to my friendly advice in my reply email, or did you also take that as an insult??

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"Currently ICE is wasting billions of dollars, and so is Arpaio, by Racial Profiling. ICE swoops down during their raids and sends hard working people to the crony owned detention centers."

Well, the last part of this is easily fixed now that your man Obama is headed to the White House he can appoint his own cronies and I'm sure he will as soon as he can get out from under more pressing problems.

As we have patiently explained, racial profiling, however distasteful, is a much more efficient and therefore much less expensive way of dealing with illegals than any other. We also suggested that this could be ended quickly if the Mexican American community would lend its full support to the objective of apprehending illegals and sending them on their way after imprisoning those involved in criminal enterprises. The latter might be discoverable through that process. Let's keep in mind here who the lawbreakers are and who are trying to enforce the law. By and large, you won't find any lllegals among the non-Mexican, non-Asian, non-Muslim communities so why look there. This is, of course, a fact not a racist comment.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "If they focused on only felonious criminals they could do the job right and save billions."

Tell us how to do this. This would be the greatest discovery in law enforcement since the invention of the billy club. If the felons hide among the Mexican Americans and illegal, how do we sort them out without the cooperation of that community.

john said...

ok, i will call myself john formerly anonymous then and i have only started to post in here a day or so ago. i found your blog under blog searches. i am very interested in the political issues that our nation is dealing with today.

i am not overlooking anyone's insults but you must be because you were only pointing the finger at certain ones while ignoring the insults from others and i asked, why is that? i see that others in here have asked that same question.

i am a white nationalist in the sense that i want to preserve and protect the equality of whites and our culture in this country. that does not make me a racist as i have no problem with people of color or other minorities in this country. i don't understand why it isn't acceptable for we good white nationalists to do that while minorities can do the same but are not called names for it. i do admit that there are bad white nationalists just as i stated in another post but they don't represent my ideals. i think you will find that the bad white nationalist kkk's kind not to represent most white people.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, ""Minorities, such as myself, are WE THE PEOPLE and we want "Liberty and Justice for ALL!"
and The pursuit of "Life, Liberty and Happiness""

We could pretty much subscribe to that if you qualified it in some way to differentiate between citizens, legal immigrants, and illegals. It is up to the last of these to seek life, liberty and pursue happiness in their own countries not here. We have enough problems trying to provide those rights to our own citizens including Mexican Americans and all the other colors of the rainbow. It is the epidemic of myopia that prevents many from seeing that we cannot do this for all the world without depriving ourselves of the advantages of liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

If minorities are "We the People", I guess that leaves the rest of us out blowin' in the wind.

ultima said...

"Whatever we may think or profess, human behavior is guided by fear, self-interest, and hornor"

ultima said...

"Yes, plain vanilla merely means ordinary,as in "ordinary American citizens"."

If you have trouble with these terms, let me know and I will give you a simple definitions so you can avoid giving them your own spin and encouraging more insults.

Dee said...

John,
Tell me.
How do you propose to preserve and protect the equaliy of whites?

Are you a member of any white separtist groups?


john said...
i am a white nationalist in the sense that i want to preserve and protect the equality of whites and our culture in this country.

Dee said...

Ulty,
Why do you call various the increase of various minority citizens the increase of 3rd World countries? Mexifornia? Mexas? You obviously have certain biases.



ultima said...
If you have trouble with these terms, let me know and I will give you a simple definitions so you can avoid giving them your own spin and encouraging more insults.

The Arizonian said...

Dee said...
AZ,
Currently ICE is wasting billions of dollars, and so is Arpaio, by Racial Profiling. ICE swoops down during their raids and sends hard working people to the crony owned detention centers. GEO Group is thriving in our tax dollars. Arpaio and his crew are wrecking havoc on innocent Latino neighborhoods wasting millions.
If they focused on only felonious criminals they could do the job right and save billions.


First off, ICE is doing what it is suppose to be doing, read their mission statement.

Second, Arpio is well within the law as it has been upheld in 8 court cases filed against his 'suppression' sweeps.

You wanna know who is really wasting tax dollars? Schools educating children with Down's Syndrome and other serious mental disorders.....

Dee said...

AZ,
My guess is both of these items will be changing very, very soon, as they should!!

We have seen a sign of it with the resignation of the alleged criminal and AP leaker Julie Myers!


Arizonian said..
First off, ICE is doing what it is suppose to be doing, read their mission statement.

Second, Arpio is well within the law as it has been upheld in 8 court cases filed against his 'suppression' sweeps.

Dee said...

AZ,
Explain your rationale for this statement. I dont understand why you would say this.
From my perspective, it is critical we educate our handicapped children in the US to help make them as functional and self sufficient as possible, for their sake and ours.

Arizonian said...
You wanna know who is really wasting tax dollars? Schools educating children with Down's Syndrome and other serious mental disorders.....

The Arizonian said...

Dee said...
AZ,
Explain your rationale for this statement. I dont understand why you would say this.
From my perspective, it is critical we educate our handicapped children in the US to help make them as functional and self sufficient as possible, for their sake and ours.


And by self-sufficient you mean to be able to do to the bathroom by themselves? Maybe make a sandwich?

The people I was referring to are the ones that will always need some sort of care taker, and will probably never hold a job. I I fail to see just how they would be an asset to society. They will be more or less a parasite of the economy.

So why waste the money "educating" them when it is really more or less day-care paid with taxpayers dollars?

Dee said...

AZ,
You and I will probably never agree on this topic so we should not debate this subject.
I believe there is significant value in helping the handicapped reach their maximum potential (as it is important for all people to be educated to their maximum potential). There are so many misdiagnosis. Doctors are only human. (Watch "House" on Fox). Most knowledgable doctors advise parents to work with their local school systems to ensure the right programs are taught. Both parents and the school system have to partner in this effort.
Even for the most severe cases, to see a child learn to use a restroom, and learn how to cook their own meals is a remarkable feat for those who in the past may have just been locked in a room.


The Arizonian said...
I fail to see just how they would be an asset to society. They will be more or less a parasite of the economy. So why waste the money "educating" them when it is really more or less day-care paid with taxpayers dollars?

November 19, 2008 2:02 PM

The Arizonian said...

Dee said:
There are so many misdiagnosis. Doctors are only human. (Watch "House" on Fox).

Seriously?
Should I watch 'American Idol' to learn how to sing?
Should I watch 'Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles' to See what the future holds?
Should I watch 'Survivor:______' to learn how to survive?

It's fiction dear......

Dee said...

AZ,
I do have a nephew with a severe disability so I speak with some knowledge.
Parents need to work within the school system.
Otherwise, the child will be left to the system. No help. Tied to a chair.
I suppose that is what you think should happen.
I don´t!!!

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