Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Hate Crime Murder In New York: "Let´s Beat Up Some Mexicans!"

As I have frequently reported, the ICE Raids, Suppression Sweeps and the Angry ANTI Immigration Reform rhetoric have created a Hate Filled Atmosphere in our country making it dangerous to "Walk While Brown!" Some violent, domestic terrorists are searching for anyone that to them, looks Mexican. All they look for is BROWN SKIN! It does not matter whether the person is a citizen or not. It doesn´t matter if they are from Mexico, Central America, Cuban, Puerto Rican, South American, Native American, Italian, Asian, Middle Eastern or from the Pacific Islands. As long as you are brown, you are Mexican to them and they hate you!
Some say there is no racism in our country. They are wrong. Racial Profiling and Hate Crimes are the worst racism possible.
AP Reports:

Police: Slaying of NY immigrant was a hate crime
YAPHANK, N.Y. (AP) — Seven high school students looking "to beat up some Mexicans" attacked an immigrant from Ecuador on a Long Island street, with one of them fatally plunging a knife into the man's chest during the brawl, police said. A prosecutor compared Marcello Lucero's death over the weekend to a lynching, and the attack was officially labeled a hate crime by Suffolk County authorities. Some outraged supporters of Hispanic immigrants suggested that recent crackdowns on illegal immigration fomented an atmosphere of intolerance that contributed to the attack.
"Today, some of the highest leaders of our community also have blood on their hands," said the Rev. Alan Ramirez, a longtime advocate for Hispanic day laborers and Latino immigrants. "I have said for a long time that it would only take time for something like this to happen."
The teenagers — one junior and six seniors at Patchogue-Medford High School — were arraigned Monday on gang assault charges and entered not guilty pleas. The teen believed to have wielded the knife, 17-year-old Jeffrey Conroy, was also charged with manslaughter as a hate crime. His attorney did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.
Lucero, 37, worked at a dry-cleaning shop in Riverhead. A friend of the victim said Lucero moved to the United States 16 years ago.
Police and prosecutors say the teens — six of them white and one black — were hanging out in a park on Saturday night around midnight when someone suggested they go "beat up some Mexicans." The group spotted Lucero and another man near the Patchogue train station and "like a lynch mob, (Conroy) and his friends got out of their car and surrounded Mr. Lucero and his friend," prosecutor Nancy Clifford said at Conroy's arraignment.
Lucero was punched in the face, and attempted to swing his belt while his companion escaped. At some point during the confrontation, Lucero was fatally stabbed in the chest and the teenagers fled. Patrol officers who had reported seeing the teens walking around Patchogue quickly arrested the group nearby.
Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer said detectives have some evidence the group may have been involved in earlier attacks and urged any victims to come forward. He noted that the immigration status of victims would not be an issue in any investigation.
Additionally, the U.S. attorney's office said it is monitoring the case.
At least one of the teens has a record. Christopher Overton, 16, pleaded guilty to burglary in another fatal attack in 2007 in which a 38-year-old East Patchogue man was shot during a home robbery. His attorney denied his client was guilty of the current charge and said Overton cooperated with prosecutors on the previous case and is awaiting sentencing.
Tensions over illegal immigration have been acute in Suffolk County, where tens of thousands of immigrants have moved in recent years and worked in jobs like construction, landscaping and restaurants. The hamlet of Farmingville, about 10 miles from where the attack occurred, has become a flashpoint in the national immigration debate after a series of violent attacks on Hispanics.
In 2000, two Mexican men were beaten by two locals in Farmingville who promised them work. On July 4, 2003, a Mexican family barely escaped with their lives after teens set their Farmingville house ablaze by shooting fireworks through a window.
Two years later, two Mexican immigrants fishing off a Long Island jetty were set upon by four white youths who beat them and stole their money while using racial and ethnic slurs
.
Ramirez and Luis Valenzuela, executive director of the Long Island Immigrant Alliance, suggested that various efforts by local government aimed at illegal immigration, as well as comments by elected officials, may have contributed to an atmosphere of intolerance. The county has enacted a local law requiring companies with government contracts to verify their employees are in the U.S. legally.
"For too long, anti-immigrant and anti-Latino sentiment has been tolerated in Suffolk County, as reflected in the introduction of anti-immigrant bill after anti-immigrant bill in the county legislature," Valenzuela said. Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy, a co-founder of a national group called Mayors and Executives for Immigration Reform, rejected suggestions that the killing was related in any way to the immigration debate.
"The beating, stabbing and killing of Marcello Lucero wasn't a question of any county policy or legislation; it was a question of bad people doing horrific things," said Levy. Gov. David Paterson said in a statement that Lucero's death "is a jarring reminder that we must remain vigilant and continue our fight to eradicate prejudice in our words and in our actions."
A promise to all my readers: I commit to keeping you updated on all the news that happens with the Marcello Lucero story! We pray his family finds Peace through these difficult times.
Let´s Ask President Obama to help Stop the Hate!!

151 comments:

Dee said...

I am appalled at the nature of this Hate Crime! Apparently these type of hate crimes are prevalent in this area! I am going to do some investigation on the young men who committed this murder! I will be reporting more on this story in the days ahead.

Dee said...

From Police News:
"“The conversation began, ‘Let’s beat up some Mexicans,’” said Suffolk Police Commissioner Richard Dormer. “The seven of them climb into a vehicle and drive to Patchogue.”

According to police accounts, when the teens couldn’t find any Latinos in Medford on Saturday night, they piled into an SUV and drove to Patchogue, where they spotted Mr. Lucero, a supervisor of a dry cleaning business, and a friend at the train station.

The seven climbed out of the vehicle and surrounded the two men. The first to pounce was 17-year-old Kevin Shea of Medford, who confessed to police that he punched Mr. Lucero, prosecutors said.

Stunned by the blow, Mr. Lucero tried to defend himself by ripping off his belt and swinging it at his attackers, according to Robert Clifford, spokesman for the Suffolk County District Attorney’s office. His companion escaped and called police.

But Mr. Conroy was not waiting for the cops to show up. He allegedly walked toward Mr. Lucero and stabbed him once in the chest and left him to die, according to Mr. Clifford.

Mr. Conroy was ordered held without bail after pleading not guilty to the manslaughter charge during his arraignment in First District Court in Central Islip on Monday. The others pleaded not guilty to the gang assault charges."

Dee said...

From New American Media:
PATCHOGUE, N.Y. -- Long Island authorities confirmed Monday that a white teenager fatally stabbed a man simply for being Hispanic, reports New York’s Spanish-language daily El Diario/La Prensa. The teenager and six other young people reportedly insulted the victim with racial slurs before attacking him early last Sunday at the Long Island Railroad station in Patchogue. Marcelo Lucero, 37, died of seven stab wounds to the chest.

"The teenagers were playing in a park and came up with the idea of looking for 'Mexicans' to beat up," said Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer.

Dee said...

From the NY Post - THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS:
"This was not some high-school prank," Assistant Suffolk DA Nancy Clifford said at yesterday's Central Islip arraignment of the suspects, who included a high-school lacrosse star.

"This was a well-thought-out crime specifically targeting Hispanics.

"In their own words," Clifford said, they decided beforehand, " 'Let's go find some Mexicans to f- - - up.' "

Suspects Jeffrey Conroy, Kevin Shea, José Pacheco, Anthony Hartford, Nick Hausch and Jordan Dasch, all 17, and Chris Overton, 16, are accused of attacking Marcello Lucero, 37, near the Patchogue LIRR station Saturday night.

Clifford said the youths - who attend Patchogue-Medford HS - were intent on doing some "beaner jumping," using a derogatory term for Mexican-Americans.

Police sources said the group is suspected in at least one other hate crime that took place last month in the area, where an influx of immigrants seeking work has created violent tensions with locals. But authorities couldn't pursue charges because the Hispanic victim was too frightened to testify, sources said.

Just before midnight Saturday, Lucero and a pal were walking to another friend's home when the teens piled out of an SUV yelling racial epithets.
As his friend ran, Lucero pulled his leather belt from his waist to defend himself. But he was no match for the thugs. Shea later boasted, " 'I punched him, I got him good. I saw blood coming down,' " police sources said.

At one point, Lucero managed to scramble to his feet. That's when Conroy, a lacrosse and wrestling star who sources said has a SWASTIKA tattoo on his thigh, allegedly stabbed him in the chest.

Dave said...

This is so sad. Words fail. Will this insanity ever end?

Tina said...

This is such a tragedy, thank you for committing to follow this story - especially as hate crimes against immigrants often get less media attention than they should.

sandra said...

For every so-called "hate crime" against a Latino, there are probably 10 crimes committed by illegals against American citizens! This was a tragic incident, of course. The man was a legal immigrant. Even if he were illegal, a loss of life is still a tragedy. However, what do they expect? Any invasion is bound to be met eventually with resistance. When the European settlers first came, the Indians were welcoming. However, years later when then numbers became overwhelming, there were conflicts and then outright genocide and war! People are going to eventually protect their own territory and ask questions later.

Why would anyone think that Americans should accept this overwhelming, unfettered illegal immigration FROM ONE DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP and think there would be no negative reactions? I'm not saying that any killings or attacks are right. What I am saying it should be expected! If Latinos would get behind those of us who want a secure border and to stop further illegal immigration this animosity and hostility would dissipate! But instead they take the opposite side, mostly for their own selfish reasons and political agenda! Then WE get blamed everytime some kooks go off and act up like in this case.

sandra said...

If Latinos think their version of CIR will secure our borders and stop illegal immigration they are not being honest, especially since it includes amnesty for all if not most of them. Non-Latino Americans are aware of this and that is another reason that the hostility exists. Again, what do they expect?

LMJ said...

sandra, you are so out of touch, you sound awfully like someone else, her name also starts with a S, from Alaska and just lost in a huge election.

these kids needs to be made an example of, reminds me of the KICK IN THE HEAD hate crime, these kids deserve hard time for the rest of their lives, maybe in prison they'll get an education and learn that this world doesn't tolerate murder persuade by race

Dee said...

LMJ,
You are right. This case sounds just like the Kick in the Head case.
These kids had swastikas tattooed on their arms and they went out "Beaner Jumping." I read some of the comments from their hometown and apparently this type of racist behavior is prevalent in their area. This isn´t new. They are learning these behaviors at home and on the internet. Much of it is related to the Anti Immigration Reform rhetoric we constantly see on the news and on the internet.
These domestic terrorists NEED to go to PRISON and pay for this Murder of an innocent man. They have to be an example to deter anyone else from committing these HATE CRIMES!


LMJ said...
these kids needs to be made an example of, reminds me of the KICK IN THE HEAD hate crime, these kids deserve hard time for the rest of their lives, maybe in prison they'll get an education and learn that this world doesn't tolerate murder persuade by race

Dee said...

Sandra,
You make some very bizarre statements.


Sandra said...
People are going to eventually protect their own territory and ask questions later.
Why would anyone think that Americans should accept this overwhelming, unfettered illegal immigration FROM ONE DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP and think there would be no negative reactions?

Dave said...

Sandra,

What do they expect?!?

As a Brown American, citizen, legal resident, or otherwise, regardless of immigration status or criminal history, past or present, I shouldn't expect to be killed, much less attacked, just because some of us in this country are fed up with the so-called "invasion of illegals".

You say on one hand that these killings or attacks are not right, but by saying "WHAT DO THEY EXPECT" is to excuse criminal behavior. Shame on you!

I shouldn't have to be worried for my safety. What you are saying is that all brown people in this country should be looking over their shoulders, and either the threat of violence, or violence itself, is to be expected because other Americans are fed up with the "invasion."

And why on earth would I "get behind" a group that excuses this sort of behavior as "to be expected."?

Forgive me, Sandra, I didn't realize that wanting to live my life in this country without being beaten on or killed, simply for looking like a Mexican, are selfish reasons and part of a political agenda! What was I thinking?!

sandra said...

I cannot imagine any other country where a certain segment of their citizens are aiding and abetting invaders that that segment would not bring down upon themselves the wrath of some of the other citizens.

Again, I do not approve of this type of violence. Killing someone or beating them up because of their appearance is totally unacceptable. This man was a legal citizen and you can't tell 100% by looking at someone if they are legal or not. Even if they are not legal, you don't murder them. But, as long as this invasion continues, and our government and corrupt business people refuse to stop it, there will be more ISOLATED incidents like this. It's not "excusing" the behavior. It is just acknowledging the reality of the situation.

I noticed that one of the kids involved in this attack was an African American and I believe from the names listed, one was also Latino!

Most likely they were just bad kids out looking for trouble and they found it. I feel bad about this, I really do. It is tragic and nobody is excusing their behavior.

Dave said...

Sandra,
When you say you don't approve of killing people, and that you don't approve of this violence, I believe you.

What isn't being acknowledged is that these kids are learning that this is somehow okay. Where and how are they learning this? It starts with our perception as a society that these people, including those that look like them (because looking like them means they must be one of "them"), are somehow expendable. Somehow these people are "less than".

Part of our perceptions start with our language. Words like illegals, alien criminals, beaners, spics, wetbacks, invaders, spawners, anchors, etc. The list goes on and on. You've used some just in your comments here on this post. Don't you see the connection between language and hate crimes?

Also fyi, having a spanish last name doesn't make one latino. or hispanic, even.

sandra said...

Illegals and invaders (because of their magnitude in numbers) are the correct discriptive terms for those in our country illegally. I don't however condone the other terms. Anchors just describes how illegal aliens anchor themselves to our country by birthing U.S. citizens. It isn't "terms" that push people to be hostile towards those in our country illegally or those who aid and abet them. It is their act of unlawful presence in our country and those Americans who side with them. As I said, I do not condone violence against them just giving an explanation as to why some do. They are among the minority in this country who commit such acts. We have had a similar discussion before. Why harp about what the minority radicals do? You don't like it when "some" people point out serious crimes that "some" illegals commit but you are doing the same thing by pointing out what "some" radicals from the other side say and do.

Actually anyone with a Spanish surname can be considered Hispanic because of their Spanish bloodlines but are not necessarily Latino (from Latin America). Now they may not practice the Hispanic culture but genetically they have Spanish bloodlines unless they were adopted.

Dee said...

Sandra,
Here is where you have gone totally off the mark.
The murderers were looking for anyone Brown.
You call being Brown "aiding and abetting."
What planet do you recieve your logic from. Oh, that´s right. Logic is NOT a contributing factor to your argument.


sandra said...
I cannot imagine any other country where a certain segment of their citizens are aiding and abetting invaders that that segment would not bring down upon themselves the wrath of some of the other citizens.

Ben said...

Why are Hispanic on white, or black on white attacks never classed as hate crimes?

Dee said...

Sandra,
Again, YOU ARE SO FAR OFF THE MARK.
Brown People ARE AMERICAN.
WE HAVE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN YOUR ANCESTORS.
WE ARE NOT INVADERS!
WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS OK TO KILL US???



sandra said...
Illegals and invaders (because of their magnitude in numbers) are the correct discriptive terms for those in our country illegally.

Dee said...

I feel sorry for you Sandra and any other racists like you.

Dee said...

Ben,
Give us examples of HATE Crimes perpetrated on WHITES simply because they are WHITE in our country. Provide urls.

Dee said...

Conyers had Swastikas tattooed on his arms.
What do you think THAT means??

Dee said...

Ive been visiting the local Long Island forums.
The students thought it was FUNNY to "Beaner Jump."
Why is that??

sandra said...

No, they were looking for Mexicans. Some Mexicans/Latinos whether they be legal (aiders and abettors) or illegal aliens are brown some are white and some are black. Referencing skin color is ridiculous. Did they state they were looking for "brown"? NO, they did not!

sandra said...

Miss Dee,

Where in my posts did I say that you are an American only based on your skin color? You are an American based on your citizenship papers! Are you trying to start an argument in here by claiming I said something that I did not? What kind of blogger would claim they want civility but spread lies about their members?

Invaders are those who are illegally in this country. I never said that anyone who is here legally is an invader!

I said quite the opposite of what you are claiming I said. I said I was opposed to violence against anyone and in fact said that this crime was tragic. Do you have some sort of mental incapability that you can't read?

sandra said...

How dare you call me a racist! Based on what???? I thought this was a civil blog! Are you wanting me to leave and that is why you are being hateful? Just say so then and stop with the insults already.

sandra said...

You also have told new members that no name calling would be allowed and yet YOU the blog owner calls me a racist??????????? You're a joke!

Anonymous said...

This murder should never have happened but I do find it interesting that no one including you dee have not mentioned whether the victim was here legally or overstayed a visa. Perhaps he was an American citizen? No one deserves to be murdered but dee, do you know his status, illegal or not? I know you have thoroughly researched this hideious act.

Dee said...

Sandra,
Obviously you missed Ultima and my Pareto discussion. It is clearly illustrated in this hate crime.
The young hoodlums were looking for "A Beaner" a "Mexican."
Why? due to the hate filled restrictionist atmosphere created by the ANTI groups.
To these young hoodlums an "illeegal Mexican Beaner" looks like the person they murdered:
. Brown
. Living in a primarily Brown part of town.

It didnt matter to them that the victim was actually from Ecuador and Immigrated here legally 16 years ago and is a hard working supervisor at his job he has had for 16 years.

All they saw was the color Brown and to them, that meant "illeegal Mexican Beaner."

sandra said...
No, they were looking for Mexicans. Some Mexicans/Latinos whether they be legal (aiders and abettors) or illegal aliens are brown some are white and some are black. Referencing skin color is ridiculous. Did they state they were looking for "brown"? NO, they did not!

November 12, 2008 7:39 PM

Dee said...

Ben,
HATE Crimes are classified as such when race, color or creed is the REASON the person was attacked.
In this case, the sole reason the victim was murdered was due to his color.

If the primary reason is car-jacking, drugs, thievery, then it is classified as such.


Ben said...
Why are Hispanic on white, or black on white attacks never classed as hate crimes?

November 12, 2008 7:17 PM

Dee said...

Sandra,
Read your own statements. Your own words of "what do they expect" as a reaction to this crime illustrates your views to all.

What do you expect?


sandra said:
Why would anyone think that Americans should accept this overwhelming, unfettered illegal immigration FROM ONE DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP and think there would be no negative reactions?

sandra said...
I cannot imagine any other country where a certain segment of their citizens are aiding and abetting invaders that that segment would not bring down upon themselves the wrath of some of the other citizens.

sandra said...
Illegals and invaders (because of their magnitude in numbers) are the correct discriptive terms for those in our country illegally.

sandra said...
If Latinos think their version of CIR will secure our borders and stop illegal immigration they are not being honest, especially since it includes amnesty for all if not most of them. Non-Latino Americans are aware of this and that is another reason that the hostility exists. Again, what do they expect?

ultima said...

This old news. In the 1952 when I was stationed at Ellington AFB near Houston a nice Black lady cautioned me about being in her neighborhood late at night. Her message was clear. Any one with white skin in that area was fair game. How little we have progressed since then. At that time race-related beatings were not called "hate" crimes. Is this just some new hyperbole to get people excited? See the fictional Confessions of a Mexican American for some of the causes of this new wave of racial attacks.

anonm said...

This hate crime DID NOT happen because of skin color unless you are calling all Mexicans "brown" and they are not! No where in the article was it stated that they were looking for anyone "brown"!

Mexican is a nationality not a race or skin color!

Dave said...

There are many interchangable words used to describe someone who is mexican: brown, latino, hispanic, spic, beaner, wetback. etc. None of those terms indicate necessarily a certain shade of brown that is required. If you look at the picture of Marcello that Dee posted here, he looks rather light. But again the words are interchangable. He was targeted in this crime simply for fitting the description of what they wanted to attack--beaners, mexicans, browns, etc. I understand the confusion, but it is the perception of the person that trumps skin color or actual affiliation. That also allowed the one or two in the group with hispanic origins to be the perpetrators rather than victims; they were hispanic, but their friends did not target them as "beaners" or latino/hispanic. There are such people who are white hispanics, and assimilated into white mainstream culture, are not viewed or percieved as minorities. That's the category where these two teens would go under.

Analisa said...

Dee,

I left this blog primarily because it seemed to me that it was largely dominated by white racists (the ANTIs). It is apparent to me that most of these ANTIs are folks who have vehemently racist views...just looking at some of the incredibly racist statements I've read on this blog - comments they feel no qualms about making. They never stop to think about whether some innocent person might be victimized because of their attitudes. By demonizing undocumented immigrants, they are creating a permissive environment for violence against anyone who doesn't look like them. So, it is my honest opinion that these folks have contributed to the atmosphere of hate that led to the deaths of Luis Ramirez and Marcelo Lucero. IMHO, the ANTIs are at least partially responsible for what happened to these men.

At one point, you said that we needed to get away from using words like "racist" and "racism." I don't care to use these terms as insults. I use them only when the statement I'm hearing seem to warrant them. Sandra excuses the hostility of whites against undocumented immigrants and Latinos by saying, "What do they expect?" In doing so, she is excusing this brutal murder. I don't blame you for calling her racist, Dee. However, I do remember being called on this when I expressed my own feeling that the views of the ANTIs are largely racist (I'm talking about their views - not the people themselves since I don't know them personally). Frankly, I really don't know how we can begin to talk about this issue honestly without calling these folks on their views - and calling it honestly for what it is: racism.

Analisa

Dave said...

analisa said: the ANTIs are at least partially responsible for what happened to these men.


You are right, analisa, I agree. While I believe Sandra when she said she didn't approve of this type of violence, her word choice for what you and I would describe as undocumented or unauthorized immigrants--"illegals", or "illegal alien criminals", etc, present with a warped view of these people that is an unfair criminalization of a wide group of people that is not warranted. Their "crime" of being here does not warrant such harsh language to describe them, and the resulting hostility and actions towards them. She stresses that she doesn't approve of such violence, but lays blame for such behavior solely on the fact that latinos have come in here "illegally". That's a lot like blaming the vicitm. Hence the "What did they expect" attitude, which was softened to "just acknowleging the reality of the situation" in a later comment she makes.

sandra said...

How convenient and dishonest to ignore my words of "This was a tragic incident, of course. The man was a legal immigrant. Even if he were illegal, a loss of life is still a tragedy."

And "I do not approve of this type of violence. Killing someone or beating them up because of their appearance is totally unacceptable. This man was a legal citizen and you can't tell 100% by looking at someone if they are legal or not. Even if they are not legal, you don't murder them."

Stating that I know what is driving the hostility of "some" radicals in no way is a condonement on my part of their actions. I made that pretty clear but I get called a racist anyway? What was that about a "civil" blog, Miss Dee?

sandra said...

For the recond to analisa, I do not excuse hostility of whites or anyone else against illegal aliens nor did I state that.

Whos's the racist, analisa!? Why single out "whites" as those who oppose amnesty for illegals??? Plenty of people from all walks of life, all races and ethnicities are against illegal immigration! But you want to make this a race issue and target whites as the boogey man. Even in this attack, a least a couple of the boys were not white! You have just showed YOUR OWN racism against whites with your post!

Analisa said...

Thank you Dave. You said something that I think is very important:

"What isn't being acknowledged is that these kids are learning that this is somehow okay. Where and how are they learning this? It starts with our perception as a society that these people, including those that look like them (because looking like them means they must be one of "them"), are somehow expendable. Somehow these people are 'less than'."
--Dave

Yes, racism is something that is inculcated in these kids by the society at large. When the ANTIs propagate these views, they influence the young people who interpret this to mean that anyone who is differnt (non-white) is 'less than.' This is like sending a signal to young people that it is okay to beat someone up just for being or looking like a Mexican. "You have to be taught to how to hate" as the saying goes. I think the ANTIs are doing a pretty good job of teaching these young and impressionable minds that it's okay to hate others, solely on the basis of whether they're documented or undocumented. The sad thing is that they don't even recognize the racist nature of their attitudes - nor the damage they cause.

Lisa

sandra said...

If one takes the time to really read this story, it was clear that this was crime was about the frustration of the presence of many illegal aliens in the area. Many of them were holding down jobs that should have gone to the Americans living in that community. I don't see this as a crime based on racism because of that but a crime of frustration over an illegal invasion of their communties and the impact of it. I STILL DO NOT CONDONE THIS CRIME REGARDLESS but lets put it in proper prospective. Racism is an entirely different motive and issue. They mentioned Mexicans only because that ethnic group comprised most of the illegals there. Again it goes back to frustration over illegal immigration and is not race based. As another member pointed out, there is no way of telling who is legal and who is not anymore.

Thank God that these are isolated incidents and not rampant in this country. I hope however that the murder/murderers get their just dues.

Analisa said...

An "invasion"? What do we do to invaders? What did we do after 9/11...we just bombed a small country back to the stone age. So, what will we do to the Mexican "invaders"? You're making my point, Sandra. When you use language like this, you're sending a signal to unbalanced people, whether you recognize it or not. The words you use have immense power. Think about it.

sandra said...

Sorry, but I tell it like it is. I am not into your PC BS! 20 million plus illegal aliens in our country constitues an unarmed invasion in any sane person's language. Play you games with someone else, white man hater!

Dee said...

Analisa,
Welcome back. We missed you.
This case is very troubling to me. This is clearly a hate crime. As the article states "recent crackdowns on illegal immigration fomented an atmosphere of intolerance that contributed to the attack."
The attackers went into the Hispanic neighborhood looking for anyone they thought was an illegal immigrant. They used Racial Profiling type stereotypes. They looked for someone with Brown skin in the Latino part of town. As they said, they went Looking to Fxxx up a Mexican. They went Beaner Jumping. Just deplorable. I hope they are punished to the fullest penalty of the law.

Dee said...

Just to clear up some people´s misunderstanding. The seven attackers were comprised of 6 white and 1 Puerto Rican Black students.
The leader, Jeffrey Conroy, was a popular jock in school. He wrestled and played lacrosse. In fact he had a lacrosse scholarship to a nearby university. He led the group.
Apparently "Beaner Jumping" is a frequent activity among Conroy and his friends. They often robbed and beat up minorities. One of the group was previously charged for robbery which resulted in a death. He was out on bond.
The students at the school have said the jocks picking on Latinos is a frequent activity. That school has been under lockdown a number of times before for fighting.
I dont understand how the school and the community could have allowed these activities to go on for so long. The whole area was like a powerkeg ready to blow up and it did.

Dee said...

Also, to clear up something Sandra said.
The area did not have a high rate of Mexican immigrants. They had a high rate of Ecuadorian immigrants. In fact, the victim was a native of Ecuador and immigrated to the US legally 16 years ago.
In any case, regardless of country of origin, this was a HATE Crime! a HATE CRIME! and the perpetrators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!
The fact they called them "Mexicans" and "Beaners" just proves the perpetrators were incited to commit this act based on the anger driven anti immigration reform rhetoric which has "fomented an atmosphere of intolerance that contributed to the attack."


sandra said...
No, they were looking for Mexicans. Some Mexicans/Latinos whether they be legal (aiders and abettors) or illegal aliens are brown some are white and some are black. Referencing skin color is ridiculous. Did they state they were looking for "brown"? NO, they did not!

sandra said...

It does not matter what nationality the illegal aliens that lived in that community were. It is a well known fact that Mexicans comprise the most illegal aliens in our country. These kids just used the word "Mexican" to include all because of that and looked for anyone who looked Latino ( a Latino/Mexican still doesn't necessarily have brown skin).

Also, if they were looking for anyone with brown skin, they struck out because the person they killed was as white as snow from his picture. Skin color was NEVER mentioned in the article so why does the blog owner here persist in bringing skin color up? I know what is behind that and so would any other insightful person reading this blog. It is a tactic used to convey a rampant hatred and racism towards Hispanics (legal or illegal) in this country and that simply isn't true. A few radicals do not represent the feelings of most Americans. These kids were obviously bad from the get go from all the other crimes that were committed prior to the killing.

Dave said...

sandra said: It is a tactic used to convey a rampant hatred and racism towards Hispanics (legal or illegal) in this country and that simply isn't true.

Skin color itself isn't used as a tactic. He may look pale in the picture here, but I've seen other pictures of him where he looks darker, but that is NOT the only identifying factor when people want to target a beaner, anyway. There are other identifying factors like language, clothing, etc.
I'd bet too that the teens do not consciously think, "Let's beat up a beaner, a mexican, because our town is suffering from an invasion of illegal immigrants, mostly mexicans". It is, rather, a sick game that they played, and may have played before, and I'd bet they could have just as easily decided to play or may have played before, "jump an asian" or "jump an arab", instead. That they thought picking on minorities was acceptable, that there is an environment that makes this okay, is what is important to note. We should be asking why this is happening, what makes this okay in our young people's minds?

Some want to dismiss it as "boys will be boys." That sounds an awful lot like what happened in shenandoah, pa. But there IS a trend, an increase in hate crimes, incidents against latinos and hispanics:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/10/29/anti-latino-hate-crimes-rise-for-fourth-year/

LMJ said...

"sandra said...
Sorry, but I tell it like it is."

Just like when someone calls you a racist. It was just telling it like it is. I mean being called racist shouldn't be an insult to you because you express racist feelings and use racial profiling terms. Don't deny it, after all, it was telling it like it is.

Liquidmicro said...

"Dee said...

From the NY Post - THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS:"

Now, Dee, if you are going to tell the story, atleast get it right.

From the article of which you state:
That's when Conroy, a lacrosse and wrestling star who sources said has a swastika tattoo on his thigh, allegedly stabbed him in the chest.


Something about this stands out:
who sources said has a SWASTIKA tattoo on his thigh

Its just one word, 'sources', that means there is NO 'proof'. It means allegations and assumptions, just like your headline in your comment that you capitalized to draw attention. Nothing like inciting violence, heh?


This is nothing at all like the case with Ramirez. This case was a hate crime.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

From the NY Post - THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS:


By the way, THUGS, would mean more than one, yet the article only states the possibility of one of them having a tattoo on his thigh. Your reporting is considered hate mongering by trying to instill more hate and fear into this case with false and made up assumptions.

Liquidmicro said...

LMJ said...

sandra, you are so out of touch, you sound awfully like someone else, her name also starts with a S, from Alaska and just lost in a huge election.


Your linking Sandra to Sarah Palin is, to say the least, ignorance on your part. Palins situation has been proven a hoax, probably started by your kind since you can't stand having a woman smarter than you. But then again you are a Liberal, what else would be expected from such??

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

LMJ,
You are right. This case sounds just like the Kick in the Head case.
These kids had swastikas tattooed on their arms and they went out "Beaner Jumping."



Please give the article and the paragraph where it states what you have said. "These kids had swastikas tattooed on their arms", otherwise you are LYING and inciting hate. Pathetic on your part.

Liquidmicro said...

"Much of it is related to the Anti Immigration Reform rhetoric we constantly see on the news and on the internet."

Prove this is the case, not just someones opinion.

Liquidmicro said...

So far the only correct thing I have read from you is this.

"These domestic terrorists NEED to go to PRISON and pay for this Murder of an innocent man. They have to be an example to deter anyone else from committing these HATE CRIMES!"

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Sandra,
Again, YOU ARE SO FAR OFF THE MARK.
Brown People ARE AMERICAN.
WE HAVE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN YOUR ANCESTORS.
WE ARE NOT INVADERS!
WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS OK TO KILL US???


I bet you always wanted to do Drama in school. I see why you never made it as an actress. I see you also believe the land as North, Central, and Southern America is but all one place and you have/had the right to travel as you wish. The problem with your argument is that those in Central and South America had become civilized by building cities for some 1-2K years and were no longer nomadic while the Red people of North America were still semi-nomadic. But this is a discussion for another time.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Conyers had Swastikas tattooed on his arms.
What do you think THAT means??


That means I would like to see you PROVE that statement. Since they all are underage, they can not get tattoos unless they have parental consent. Now I would like to see which parent allowed their child to get tattoos of swastikas on their kids arm. Still Pathetic Dee, still Pathetic.

sandra said...

lmj,

I never expressed any racist feelings! Put up or shut up! I have nothing against any ethnicity being in this country legally. It is illegal aliens I object to and that ISN'T RACISM!

When the blog owner says she wants civility and no name calling then she is a hypocrite if she stoops to that behavior herself and then allows someone like you to do likewise.

Me calling this an unarmed invasion or calling illegal aliens by their legal term are just plain facts and are not racist in nature and do not justify you or anyone else in here calling me a racist.

sandra said...

Dave,

This article is for your eyes only. Now mind you, I don't think that this illegal alien represents the majority of them or Hispanics in general and I wouldn't even link you to this article normally but I just wanted to show you how ridiculous it would be for me to imply that it is. This is what is being implied in here about white people/anti illegal immigration folks in regards to the murder case being discussed in this topic right now.

Crime and racism happens within all races/ethnicities.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-11142008-1621246.html

Dave said...

liquidmicro said: This is nothing at all like the case with Ramirez. This case was a hate crime.

If the Ramirez case is not a hate crime, why is it being tried as one?? Because there is reasonable evidence to show that it was. The difference with this case and in Shenandoah is that the teens were rightfully sought after and caught, moments after the crime, instead of the police in Shendo essentially looking the other way and allowing the "star football players" to escape and even meet up the next day to conconct a story.

Just because the teens in the Ramirez case deny racial epithets and slurs were used, doesn't make that not a hate crime. The teens there are hoping there would not be enough evidence to convict them, but there are a lot of eye witnesses that heard racial slurs and epithets while they beat and kicked Ramirez. That may be enough evidence. We'll have to wiat and see.

Liquidmicro said...

"If the Ramirez case is not a hate crime, why is it being tried as one??"

It is a 'charge', an 'allegation'. Prosecutors try to attain as many charges against people in order to have some stick. Just because supposed epithets were used in the Ramirez case, a hate crime that does not make. The boys in the Ramirez case were not out looking to "beat up some Mexicans".

Dave said...

Geez, Sandra, who are you, really, Lou Dobbs??! And what is this "for my eyes only" business? This is a very public forum.

The truth is, and what you don't understand, is that undocumented immigrants are much less likely to commit crimes than their citizen and legal resident counterparts. So I should hope so, that you think it's ridiculous to assume most "illegals" and hispanics in general are like the one in your link.

Saying that there is a rise or increase in hate crimes against latinos and hispanics doesn't imply that it's the norm, it shows there is a rising trend, and begs the question, what contributes to that trend?

Dave said...

It is a 'charge', an 'allegation'. Prosecutors try to attain as many charges against people in order to have some stick. Just because supposed epithets were used in the Ramirez case, a hate crime that does not make. The boys in the Ramirez case were not out looking to "beat up some Mexicans".


As I said, we'll have to wait and see. The teens didn't have to premeditate that they were searching for a mexican. They found one, shouted at him and instigated the fight, used racial slurs, told him to "go back to Mexico" and continued to use racial slurs while attacking him and beating him even to the point and beyond the point of unconcsciousness. That's what makes it a hate crime. He was attacked with the focus of the attack being simply that he was mexican. WE'll wait and see what conclusion will come about.

Liquidmicro said...

"That's what makes it a hate crime. He was attacked with the focus of the attack being simply that he was mexican."


He fought standing up for the girl and her honor, he responded to the boys back with unknown words at this point. His own rage and anger continued the fight. Yea, we will have to wait to see if this will be construed as a hate crime. However, from what information that is out there, the two accounts are not the same in any way, with the exception of the Latino/Hispanic dying.

Dave said...

This is what is being implied in here about white people/anti illegal immigration folks in regards to the murder case being discussed in this topic right now.


No, it is not.

Dave said...

However, from what information that is out there, the two accounts are not the same in any way, with the exception of the Latino/Hispanic dying.

I beg to differ. Similar, yes. Are there differences between the two crimes, yes. Completley different. Not in my opinion. But again, we'll wait and see.

Dee said...

Dave,
You hit the nail on the head!
They thought minority bashing was ok.
I was reading the comments in the NYPost. Some of the students from the school post there. Some of the perpetrators friends. One girl said about Conroy, "He is such a nice guy. Why dont you let him out of jail! He has suffered enough."

Unbelievable!

Dave said...
That they thought picking on minorities was acceptable, that there is an environment that makes this okay, is what is important to note. We should be asking why this is happening, what makes this okay in our young people's minds?

Dee said...

LMJ,
You are absolutely right!!


LMJ said....
Don't deny it, after all, it was telling it like it is.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Actually, one of the sources was Conroy´s ex girlfriend. She broke up with him because of his swastika and the hate groups he was joining on the internet. I think it was in the NYPost story yesterday.


Liquidmicro said...
"Dee said...

From the NY Post - THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS:"

Now, Dee, if you are going to tell the story, atleast get it right.

From the article of which you state:
That's when Conroy, a lacrosse and wrestling star who sources said has a swastika tattoo on his thigh, allegedly stabbed him in the chest.


Something about this stands out:
who sources said has a SWASTIKA tattoo on his thigh

Its just one word, 'sources', that means there is NO 'proof'.

Dee said...

Liquid,
ha ha ha... you are the one who cant stand having a woman smarter than you!! that was proven long ago.


Liquid said...
probably started by your kind since you can't stand having a woman smarter than you.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Now who is naive? That is pathetic!


Liquidmicro said...
Since they all are UNDERAGE, they can not get tattoos unless they have PARENTAL CONSENT. Now I would like to see which parent allowed their child to get tattoos of swastikas on their kids arm. Still Pathetic Dee, still Pathetic.

Dee said...

Sandra,
The saddest thing about you is you do not even recognize your own racism.
Why dont you free yourself and just admit it! We can all see it!



sandra said...
lmj,

I never expressed any racist feelings! Put up or shut up! I have nothing against any ethnicity being in this country legally. It is illegal aliens I object to and that ISN'T RACISM!

LMJ said...

"lmj,

I never expressed any racist feelings! Put up or shut up! I have nothing against any ethnicity being in this country legally. It is illegal aliens I object to and that ISN'T RACISM!

When the blog owner says she wants civility and no name calling then she is a hypocrite if she stoops to that behavior herself and then allows someone like you to do likewise.

Me calling this an unarmed invasion or calling illegal aliens by their legal term are just plain facts and are not racist in nature and do not justify you or anyone else in here calling me a racist."

Well I guess it is what it is...

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
ha ha ha... you are the one who cant stand having a woman smarter than you!! that was proven long ago.


Proven by who..... you?? HARDLY! You can't even get the story straight, you have to incite HATE by making allegations that aren't even correct.


How would I be naive, laws require anyone under 18 to have parents authorization in order to get a tattoo. Granted he may have done a home made tattoo on his thigh as 'sources' state in the article, but there are none on his or their arms as you have stated.

Dee said...

Liquid,
For you:

"A spokesman for Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy, who called the attackers "white supremacists," said that Conroy has a swastika tattoo on his leg."

http://www.silive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-39/1226678673134000.xml&storylist=simetro

Dee said...

More from today´s article:
The killing of Lucero has sent shockwaves far beyond Suffolk County, where animosity over the influx of thousands of immigrants from Mexico, as well as Central and South America, has been simmering for nearly a decade.

Groups including the National Council of La Raza, Hispanics Across America, Latino Justice and the American Jewish Committee's Long Island Chapter have each issued statements expressing disgust.

Ecuador's ambassador to the United States on Friday issued a statement lamenting the killing just days after the election of Barack Obama as the country's first black president.

"It is tragic that a crime of this nature, a xenophobic lynching, happened just as the United States celebrates a historic step forward in which racial barriers have been overcome," said Ambassador Luis Gallegos.

Dee said...

Read this comment made by the schoolmates of the murderers:

A friend of the teens, who all attend Patchogue-Medford High School, arrived at the courthouse early Friday to offer a different perspective.

"They are the sweetest kids you will ever meet, they really are," said Brittany Callica. "This is so unfair for them. It's not a hate crime, they're not racist. They hang out with Spanish people, they hang out with black people. They're such good kids, they had such a good future and now look."

Liquidmicro said...

I've not denied he may have a tattoo on his thigh, I am calling you out for clambering that they 'all' have tattoos, "THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS". Or here where you state the following, "These kids had swastikas tattooed on their arms and they went out "Beaner Jumping.""

You fail to mention these boys had also been drinking in the park.

Dee said...

NY Post article:

Racial tension runs so deep in the Long Island community rocked by an immigrant's murder last weekend that it's even scrawled on a sign just 30 yards from the entrance to the high school.

There, the hate-filled word "spic" is crudely scrawled on a stop sign outside Patchogue-Medford HS, where seven teens charged in the brutal, racially charged stabbing death of an Ecuadorian immigrant are students.

Two years ago, school officials had to impose lockdowns after a series of racial brawls erupted between newly immigrated Hispanic students and their white and black classmates. Witnesses say chief slay suspect Jeffrey Conroy was at the center of many of them.

"Jeff was involved in a lot of those fights. I think maybe that got him thinking like this," said an ex-girlfriend, who asked to remain anonymous. "He had plenty of black and Turkish friends, as well as some Hispanics, but he had a particular problem with illegal immigrants."

She said she broke things off with Conroy when she noticed he had a small swastika tattoo on his thigh. When she confronted him about it, he said, "It's what I believe in."

Conroy and his cohorts hatched the horrific plot to go "beaner jumping" - a derogatory reference to Central Americans - as they drank with others at Southaven County Park on Saturday night, a close friend, Michelle Cassidy, 16, told The Post.

Dee said...

NY Post url

Hate Runs Wild

Dee said...

More from NY Post article:
The killing has shaken the area to the core. "There is a lot of racism out here," said 14-year-old Jonathan Campoverde as he walked past a memorial to Lucero. "People are afraid of walking down the street - little kids now."



Recently, residents said a pack of menacing teens had been harassing Hispanics walking down Main Street in Patchogue, screaming epithets and telling them to "get the f- - - out of here."


Back at the school, many said they were hoping the hostility would subside.

"There was a lot of racial tension. It was bad. There were fights in the school. There were a lot of lockdowns, but we took strong measures against it, and it improved," said one school-board member.

But yesterday, school officials locked the campus down once again, and Suffolk County cops were stationed around the campus. Principal Manuel Sanzone held special assemblies with each class, appealing for unity, students said.


Meanwhile, the Secret Service opened an investigation into racist graffiti spray-painted on more than two dozen vehicles, including messages targeting President-elect Barack Obama in nearby Mastic.

At least one car had "Kill Obama" painted on it.

Suffolk County cops are also investigating reports by several Islip Terrace residents that Ku Klux Klan literature was left on their property Monday.

Dee said...

These insane racist kids. Here is todays NY Post article about the guy they nearly killed:

TEEN HATE GANG TRIED TO KILL ME FIRST

Hector Sierra narrowly avoided a horrific fate at the hands of a wolf pack of rampaging Long Island thugs hunting for immigrants to attack. He saved himself by running for his life and desperately pounding on the door of a stranger for help.

"I am the luckiest guy on Long Island. If I would have frozen, they would have killed me - but I ran like hell. It's crazy. They were all kids."

Sierra said he was on his way home from work at around 12:20 a.m. Sunday when he noticed an SUV go by, slow down and then stop about 40 feet ahead of him on East Main Street.



When he saw two white teens hop out, he grew nervous because two people with whom he works had been recently attacked by teens as they walked home late at night.

"I was very, very afraid," he said.

His fears were not misplaced.

"They started running towards me. I backed up and two other kids got out as well," he said. "I started running like hell and screaming. They started punching me from behind."

Sierra said the gang never said a word.

"They didn't say anything. They were just punching. I thought they were going to rob me. I was very, very scared," he said.

So he kept running and began screaming for help.

"I was yelling 'Help! Help! Somebody help me!' One of them kicked me from behind and I tripped. I fell and cut my pants," he said.

Sierra, a father of two, then sought help at a house.

"I ran to a house. I started banging [on the door], yelling, 'Please, somebody help me!' He kicked me for the last time," he said.

He said he pounded so hard the window in the door cracked. The desperate action probably saved his life, because the teens ran off.

Sources said the teens told cops they worried that the racket Sierra was making would cause somebody to call 911.

The youths moved on, and just minutes later encountered Marcello Lucero, 37, with a friend. One of the teens, Jeffrey Conroy, 17, allegedly plunged a knife into Lucero's chest, killing him.

He has been charged with manslaughter and another six with gang assault.

"We went to Patchogue to beat up some beaners,"

Dee said...

NY Post article
Murderers statements:

"We started a fight with two Mexican guys. Kevin [Shea] punched one of the guys and Jeff [Conroy] said he thought he stabbed a guy."

Another suspect, Anthony Hartford, allegedly told cops: "Me and [Shea] probably started the whole thing."

When they encountered Lucero, "Kevin was yelling for everyone to surround him and we tried to," co-defendant Nicholas Hausch, 17, told cops, according to a criminal complaint.

Shea, 17, allegedly admitted to cops that he swung at Lucero and landed a blow: "I punched him. I got him good, I saw blood coming down."

Police said Conroy acknowledged that he plunged a knife into Lucero.

"I stabbed him once in the shoulder, I think," he said.

A grand jury was set to begin hearing the case yesterday but the proceeding was postponed until today.

sandra said...

Dave,

I put for "your eyes only" because you were the one claiming all these hate crimes against latinos without looking at the crimes committed by illegal aliens against Americans. Neither one is rampant in this country and none of the crimes represent what most illegals nor do they represent what most anti-illegal immigration Americans do.

I don't care who reads the link but I specifically wanted you to read it.

Dee said...

Sandra,
Your own posts define who you are.
Stop your name calling. All name calling posts will be deleted.

Try to make a point.
Re Read your OWN posts to understand why others are saying what they are saying and try to get a grip.

Dee said...

Another article -This was a racist, hoodlum gang driven by the anti immigration rhetoric:

At least one of the teens has a record. Christopher Overton, 16, pleaded guilty to burglary in another fatal attack in 2007 in which a 38-year-old East Patchogue man was shot during a home robbery. His attorney denied his client was guilty of the current charge and said Overton cooperated with prosecutors on the previous case and is awaiting sentencing.

sandra said...

Give it up liquidmicro, you are dealing with a pathogical liar and hate filled, anti-American ethnocentric. There is no hope for them!

I have an idea on how to prevent these things from happening again. Why don't the illegal aliens go home and the hostility and wounds will heal and the resentment towards their ethnocentric aiders and abettors will decline also. Again, I am not justifying violent behavior just making a suggestion as to how to curb this violent behavior from radicals. Bet we don't get any takers from certain people in here however who have an agenda.

sandra said...

Sandra,
Your own posts define who you are.
Stop your name calling. All name calling posts will be deleted.

Try to make a point.
Re Read your OWN posts to understand why others are saying what they are saying and try to get a grip.


STOP MY NAME CALLING???? WHO CALLED ME A RACIST FIRST AND YOU ALLOWED ANALISA TO DO IT ALSO, HYPOCRITE! EXPLAIN YOURSELF, NAME CALLER!!! YOU ARE INSANE TELLING ME NOT TO NAME CALL WHEN YOU YOURSELF DID IT FIRST, HYPOCRITE!

I re-read my post and nothing I said was racist. I asked you to point them out but you can't and that is why you are being evasive about it now. Be specific, liar!

Dee said...

What is happening to our young people??
More from the article:

"Tensions over illegal immigration have been acute in Suffolk County, where tens of thousands of immigrants have moved in recent years and worked in jobs like construction, landscaping and restaurants. The hamlet of Farmingville, about 10 miles from where the attack occurred, has become a flashpoint in the national immigration debate after a series of violent attacks on Hispanics.

In 2000, two Mexican men were beaten by two locals in Farmingville who promised them work. On July 4, 2003, a Mexican family barely escaped with their lives after teens set their Farmingville house ablaze by shooting fireworks through a window.

Two years later, two Mexican immigrants fishing off a Long Island jetty were set upon by four white youths who beat them and stole their money while using racial and ethnic slurs."

Dave said...

sandra: Neither one is rampant in this country and none of the crimes represent what most illegals nor do they represent what most anti-illegal immigration Americans do

Where are you getting your argument from and then direct at me? Really. I never said that this crime represents what most whites or antis do, I said that the anti-illegal immigrant rhetoric creates a climate of fear and hatred towards uncodumented immigrants, and there is an increase in hate crimes against latinos/hispanics. period.

Dee said...

The FBI has reported that the HATE Crimes against ALL Hispanics has increased in America.
What they are NOT reporting however is the fact that MANY of those attacked are NOT reporting these incidents due to FEAR! They ARE Living in FEAR!!

ultima said...

Dave says, "Part of our perceptions start with our language. Words like illegals, alien criminals, beaners, spics, wetbacks, invaders, spawners, anchors, etc. " Do you mean terms like Whitey, Honky, Gringo,Hymie,etc.?

We need to distinguish between legitimate and descriptive terms like anchor babies,illegal aliens, and the more pejorative terms above. We should not have to resort to PC euphemisms to communicate the essential meaning we intend. It is unfortunate that some fringe elements choose to use the other terms or use any of them as an excuse for violence. What Dave proposes is amost the other side of the coin for those in the past who advocated book burning.

The hoodlums are suffering from a number of maladies, among which is an underdeveloped brain of the same sort that afflicted many of Obama's youthful supporters. Youngsters, and even young men and women,fail to stop and think before they act. It is a big mistake to limit this concern to attacks on minorities after all minorities will soon be the majority and there have been plenty of incidents in which White kids have been severely beaten or killed.
Those incidents rarely get the same attention as attacks on minorities. Whenever they occur we should all rail against them but we also reflect on the underlying causes rather than focusing entirely on the incidents themselves. In this regard, I have to agree with Sandra that folks who are here illegally have the least cause to complain. If they weren't here, the incidents wouldn't have happened. In that sense, these incidents are analogues to the many crimes committed by illegal aliens and their progeny. I cited several examples of traffic related tragedies and sex crimes in the Confessions of a Mexican American (see link above).

Dee said...

There are those that wish NOT to abide by the rules of this forum.
1. Keep to the topic of the blog
2. No name calling
3. No profanity

As always, we will keep to our Mission.
Those that do not abide by the mission will be deleted.
(just like choooocccooolllaaatttteee!)

Dee said...

Ulty,
Here is what you are missing. These criminals were seeking to inflict harm on anyone brown or as they termed it "Beaner Jumping" or "Fxxn a Mexican." Reports indicate their hate is based on the illegal immigration debate and the hate filled rhetoric that stems from it.
These race based horrors should never be tolerated!
These hoodlums should be made to suffer the fullest extent of the law. No one can question this.

Dee said...

Ulty,
I disagree that any part of the immigration debate should somehow condone or indicate "what do you expect."
These murders are HATE Crimes! And they impact all BROWN people regardless of citizenship status.
The FBI and the justice system should penalize them to the FULLEST extent of the law!

ultima said...

Dave says,"There are such people who are white hispanics, and assimilated into white mainstream culture, are not viewed or percieved as minorities."

Sounds like a major part of the solution to our Hispanic problem-- in a word assimilate, speak English, enter our country legally, etc.

ultima said...

Dee says, "The FBI and the justice system should penalize them to the FULLEST extent of the law!"

Of course they should,regardless of who the perps are and who the victims are and regardless of their color.

ultima said...

We all need to recognize that illegality and the lack of the rule of law, breeds illegality. Those who selectively support the rule of law are also culpable in these crimes as accessories before the fact.

Dee said...

Ulty,
What you are missing is, poor Mr. Lucero was just walking to a friends house to see a movie. He was a hard working individual.
The haters had no right to murder him!!


ultima said...
We all need to recognize that illegality and the lack of the rule of law, breeds illegality. Those who selectively support the rule of law are also culpable in these crimes as accessories before the fact.

November 14, 2008 7:01 PM

Dee said...

No One Can Defend the murderers actions!

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

I feel sorry for you Sandra and any other racists like you.

November 12, 2008 7:18 PM

Analisa said...

Dee,

I left this blog primarily because it seemed to me that it was largely dominated by white racists (the ANTIs).
...
I don't blame you for calling her racist, Dee.

November 13, 2008 7:11 PM



So lets see if Dee follows her own rules.

Dee said...

There are those that wish NOT to abide by the rules of this forum.
1. Keep to the topic of the blog
2. No name calling
3. No profanity

As always, we will keep to our Mission.
Those that do not abide by the mission will be deleted.
(just like choooocccooolllaaatttteee!)

November 14, 2008 6:47 PM


I won't count on it though, especially since Anon called you on it first and you deleted his post.

Dee said...

Liquid,
AnonM is Michael here to disrupt my blog.
As always, he does not keep to the topic and tries to hijack.

We ALL will keep to topic.

Dee said...

Regarding the Kick in the Head case which is related to this topic, some interesting news came up today.
I will be posting a new blog about that case shortly.
Some very disturbing news is coming up.
I am contacting all of my Pro Blogger contacts to alert them of the news.

Liquidmicro said...

News like they might be walking free because there is not enough evidence to pursue the charges?? Rile your troops, Dee, won't help, the evidence is coming out for all to see now, not quite the way you or yours have perceived it to be.

ultima said...

When emergency workers arrived at the scene of the crash on February 19, 2008, they found the bright yellow school bus lying shattered on its side. A few minutes earlier, the bus had been carrying 28 children home from the Lakeview School in Cottonwood, Minnesota. That's when a van barreled through a stop sign and smashed into the bus killing four students between the ages of 9 and 13. Marty and Rita Javens lost two sons, Hunter and Jesse. Six other children were seriously injured.

The woman who police said was driving the van--a 24-year-old illegal alien from Guatemala named Olga Marina Franco del Cid--did not have a valid driver's license. Even worse, she'd been caught driving illegally before. Earlier, in 2006, a resident of Montevideo, Minnesota, called police about a driver who had plowed into her yard. The driver on that occasion was also Olga, who managed to hide her illegal status and pleaded guilty to driving without a license. Her punishment? A $182 fine.

People in Denver are still asking why was illegal alien Francis Hernandez was still on the street after being arrested nearly 20 times over five years. Police and immigration officials continue to deny they failed in their responsibility to detain and deport Hernandez before his most recent crash that killed three people. He is accused of causing the wreck that sent two vehicles careening into an ice cream shop and killing a three-year-old inside plus two women in a pickup truck.

How many illegal alien drivers are on our roads? No one knows for sure, but the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles recently estimated that there were "tens of thousands" of unlicensed drivers in that state alone. All of this helps to explain why America suffers a stomach-turning 117 driving-related deaths per day. Of course, illegal aliens are not the only ones at fault; reckless teenagers and others in their early twenties whose brains are not fully developed also contribute to this tragic record. It is clear however that if illegal aliens were not on our streets and highways we could all rest a little easier.

Nearly one-third of the estimated 435,000 immigrants in Colorado are believed to be illegal. It is likely that even more are the children of illegal aliens. Across the country, crimes involving illegal immigrants have become a lightning rod for criticism and fiery rhetoric, and it's no different in Colorado. The arrest of Hernandez and subsequent revelation that he is an illegal immigrant from Guatemala has renewed a long-simmering and often acrimonious debate about immigration reform.

It is not just the safety records of illegals that is troublesome. A May 2006 World Net Daily report cites a study by the Violent Crimes Institute. Spokeswoman Deborah Schurman-Kauflin says a year-long, in-depth study estimates:
...there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.

...based on a figure of 12 million illegal immigrants and the fact that more of this population is male than average, sex offenders among illegals make up a higher percentage than offenders in the general population.

She arrives at the figure of 240,000 offenders – a conservative estimate, she says – through public records showing about 2 percent of illegals apprehended are sex offenders.

"This translates to 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders coming across U.S. borders illegally per day," she says.

She points out the 1,500 offenders in her study had a total of 5,999 victims, and each sex offender averaged four victims.

"This places the estimate for victimization numbers around 960,000 for the 88 months examined in this study," she declares.

Nobody knows how many of the illegals are violent. I do know illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war. A new report from "Family Security Matters" (FSM) estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population. The report from FSM estimates that the 267,000 illegal aliens currently incarcerated in the nation are responsible for nearly 1,300,000 crimes, ranging from drug arrests to rape and murder." Such statistics debunk the claim that illegal immigration is a victimless crime.

The murder of Kris Eggle, a park ranger in the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument in southern Arizona on August 9, 2002, was little noted by the media, although the press has paid considerable attention to the deaths of illegal aliens on the border. Ranger Eggle was shot down by Mexican drug dealers who were using Organ Pipe as a route for their smuggling. Only 28 when he was murdered, Eggle was a valedictorian and an Eagle Scout who joined the National Park Service because he loved the outdoors. (Organ Pipe is considered to be the most dangerous of the national park system: 200,000 illegal aliens and 700,000 pounds of drugs were intercepted at the park in 2001.) This incident should trigger an epiphany among those who support illegal aliens. It could have been one their sons.

Are these crimes any less heinous than beating up Mexicans? Should the perpetrators of either be excused? Should their supporters be excused?

Dee said...

Liquid, You and Michael and Sandra just prove our point.
You are so full of hate and anger you could care less about the murder of an innocent victim. All you care about is deporting the 12M here. You could care less how they got here, the history of immigration into our country, the current xenophobia and hate filled atmosphere in our country.
To call Sandra racist is not name calling. I am merely stating a FACT.
To say those on your side are inciting this anger towards all Brown people, particularly Latinos is a FACT.
It is obvious for the World to See!!

Dee said...

The fact is, Mr. Lucero, an innocent immigrant from Ecuador is DEAD! He was the victim of a Hate Crime. This hate crime was perpetrated by young high school students who learned this behavior from people like you who stir up HATE and ANGER against all the 12M here which results in Racial Profiling against all 50M Latinos in our country as well as ALL Brown people in America.

This Hatred and Murder HAS TO STOP!!

Dave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ultima said...

Dee say, "What you are missing is, poor Mr. Lucero was just walking to a friends house to see a movie. He was a hard working individual.
The haters had no right to murder him!!"

Of course he was and no one here, even those you and Analise choose to falsely accuse of being racist, condones that act. The three year old in the ice cream shop didn't deserve to be murdered either, by a 20 time loser no less. That tragic loss of life is no less heinous. I'm truly sorry about Mr. Lucero but there is a different point of view on the root causes of such incidents. Sandra does not deserve to be called a racist. I thought we were beyond that name calling business. Analise is even worse because she lumps all the opposition to her own racist views in that same category, ignoring all the other facts that have been presented numerous times. Delete her if you are going to delete others. She and you are clearly breaking your own rules.

Liquidmicro said...

When you have no more argument you begin laying blame. I have only pointed out your many inaccuracies of this topic. I think all of us have stated this was a tragedy and that the boys should be held accountable, but your own self righteousness about your 'choooocccooolllaaatttteee' skin color, blinds your eyes to the actual facts, not just in this case but also the case of Ramirez.

If you wish to blame ANTI's for the problems, don't forget to blame your PROs for allowing them to stay. You wish to apply guilt, you had better be ready to accept it as well.

Liquidmicro said...

Wrong person Dave, wasn't me that said what you think I said, but Ultima.

Dave said...

Thanks, liquidmicro. just deleted it.

Dee said...

Ulty and Liquid,
It is unfortunate you fail to see the root cause for this problem. As stated in the article, "recent crackdowns on illegal immigration fomented an atmosphere of intolerance that contributed to the attack."

The "Beaner Stompers" heard all of the racist rhetoric in the immigration debate and they believe it is ok to Beaner Stomp and go Fxxx up some Mexicans even if they are not Mexican and even if they are not illegal immigrants. Not that if Mr. Lucero were either would condone their murderous behavior.

If you read the comments in the local newspapers, the students say as much. These drunken jocks do it every weekend, just for laughs. Last weekend, they went a bit farther than usual and murdered this innocent man. Their school mates, like the Shenandoah schoolmates, believe the "poor jocks" suffered enough.

You are so blind you do not see the outcome that your very explanation for this incident adds gas to the racist, fiery atmosphere that fueled this behavior.

I almost feel sorry for all of you!

Liquidmicro said...

"recent crackdowns on illegal immigration fomented an atmosphere of intolerance that contributed to the attack."

This is nothing more then the writers opinion. It seems the ex-girlfriend said it best, Conyers was into the White Supremest web sites and believed in what they preached. Now you are trying to tie that into the ANTI arguments. If this be the case, then I see no problem in calling you and yours Reconquistas who should be ran out of the country due to the unarmed invasion as Sandra described. After all, an insult for an insult, right??

Dave said...

Ultima,

Assimilation only goes so far. I am a good example. Even though I'm assimilated, people still think I'm fresh off the boat. I have to say something for them to realize I speak English.

People shouldn't have to assimilate to avoid death or injury.

Which brings me to my next point.

Why do Antis blame the undocumented immigrants for creating the hostile environment that affects Brown Americans as well? Isn't there such a thing as restraint and personal accountability? People here are echoing the very thing that Antis said when Luis Ramirez died: "I don't condone what they did; it was wrong and the teens should pay, but if the illegals didn't come here in the first place, it never would've happened..."

That's like saying, "If he didn't come here, I wouldn't have punched him and wouldn't have kicked him in the head to death."

sandra said...

I would like to personally thank both liquidmicro and ultima for defending me in here. You know the truth of the tactics used in here as well as I do. Thank you again for pointing out the truth.

I am not a racist nor have I said anything in this blog that could be considered racist. As you know, I hold the same views as you do. I respect our nation's immigration laws and our soveriegn borders and I expect "immigrants" to also. There is a reason we have immigration laws and those reasons have been discussed at great length in here. They are in place to protect the best interests of this country and it's citizens.

As far as these crimes being committed against illegal aliens or other Latinos, I have already stated that they are tragic. It fell on deaf ears though and in fact denied by the blog owner. I don't know how anyone can deny what is written in someone's posts clearly for all to read, with a straight face.

Ultima, all those crimes that you posted committed by illegal aliens against citizens garnered not one ounce of sympathy from some in here and yet we did express our sympathy for the reverse situation and it was not even acknowledged.

Thanks again for your support though, it meant so much to me.

Dee said...

Dave,
You are right.
The ANTIs cannot help themselves. They continue to demonize and demonize and do not advocate personal accountability. They wont even acknowledge this as a racist HATE Crime caused by the ANTI Immigration rhetoric.



Dave said..
Why do Antis blame the undocumented immigrants for creating the hostile environment that affects Brown Americans as well? Isn't there such a thing as restraint and personal accountability? People here are echoing the very thing that Antis said when Luis Ramirez died: "I don't condone what they did; it was wrong and the teens should pay, but if the illegals didn't come here in the first place, it never would've happened..."

That's like saying, "If he didn't come here, I wouldn't have punched him and wouldn't have kicked him in the head to death."

Dee said...

Ulty,
There are so many problems with your post about illegal immigrants.
First, you reference Worldnet Daily as a datasource. This is not a reputable newspaper. If you believe their data you believe in men on mars. Dont they publish that too?
Second, you are talking about car accidents. Yes people have car accidents. Go look in your daily newspaper. People have car accidents every day.
NONE OF THEM ARE RACIST HATE CRIMES!
Conroy and his cohorts attacked Lucero and murdered him because he was Brown! Period! They had this picture in their mind of an illegal immigrant, brown, in that area of town, and Beaner Stomp him.
Cant you acknowledge this HATE CRIME? Cant you acknowledge the responsibility associated with all the hate-anger of this immigration debate that caused Conroy to think Lucero and all "Beaners" are less than equal and able to stomp and murder them with no accountability.
Perhaps the worst part of this crime is that his schoolmates still think he is a good boy and has suffered enough. Unbelievable!

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Dave,
You are right.
The ANTIs cannot help themselves. They continue to demonize and demonize and do not advocate personal accountability.


Personal Accountability, like that of Ramirez and you denying his personal responsibility in the fight, right?? The balance of justice is blind and should be viewed objectively, something you seem unable to do because you are blinded by your own ethnocentric ignorance. You allow racial biaseness be your guide, continue on that path and see where it ends, know wonder you hyphenate yourself.

Anonymous said...

Ultima didn't just mention car accidents involving illegal immigrants, he mentioned other crimes that they have committed also. If death to someone is the result of those actions what does it matter if they are hate crimes or not? In your own words, the point is that THEY ARE DEAD!

Liquidmicro said...

Anonymous said...

Ultima didn't just mention car accidents involving illegal immigrants, he mentioned other crimes that they have committed also. If death to someone is the result of those actions what does it matter if they are hate crimes or not? In your own words, the point is that THEY ARE DEAD!


Just in case Anon.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Tell me Liquid.
What would you do if 8 or 9 big jocks surrounded you, ran up to you and punched you in the face. Started calling you racial slurs.

What would you do?

Dave said...

Personal Accountability, like that of Ramirez and you denying his personal responsibility in the fight, right??

The trial isn't about Luis Ramirez. He was an "illegal" and, let's just say for argument's sake that the was also wanted in a few states, was a dead beat dad, a drug dealer, a robber, and a thief. Aside from all of this being totally untrue, again, that isn't what is on trial, even if it were true, none of that would matter here; nothing matters except the events that took place that night between the teens and Ramirez. There's no ethnocentric ignorance on my part at all. If he not only survived, but actually injured or killed any of the six or so people that attacked him, (which somehow only three got put on trial, what's up with that?), that would've changed the trial drastically, wouldn't it? It would be a different trial. But, in this trial, it is fairly clear that the teens can in no way claim self defense. How big and in-shape usually are high school football players, vs. a scrawny looking 25 year old Ramirez? If the tables were turned and somehow he was the attacker who injured or killed, that would be a different trial, and I wouldn't defend Ramirez if I felt there was enough evidence to convict him. But again, that is not the trial, ergo, my position on this.

Dee said...

Dave,
You are so logical.
Please send some of your logic pills to Liquid.
They might help him.

Liquidmicro said...

This case, as I stated earlier, is not the same as the Ramirez case. In this case the boys went out looking to do something, in the Ramirez case the boys were walking home when they came across a girl from school that they knew and harassed her when her boy friend decided to become mucho macho the fighter(Ramirez). In this case, a fatal wound is clear, a knife wound to the chest. Ramirez however, they do not know from which blow he died, the head on the macadam, the kick, the punch with a metal object in hand.

As for this topic, all I have done is point out Dee's inaccuracies, as I have always done and even agreed with her statement of: "These domestic terrorists NEED to go to PRISON and pay for this Murder of an innocent man. They have to be an example to deter anyone else from committing these HATE CRIMES!"

There is no need for Dee to print and create a fear or hatred simply because she is instigating and inciting from false but mostly inaccurate information. Such as I have pointed out in my previous posts like: "THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS:" when only one of them has one on his thigh, or: "These kids had swastikas tattooed on their arms", again, only one has one on his thigh. Do you see where I am going with this??

There is no need to lie about the facts, it only makes you look the fool. It makes you look prejudice and also a racist for doing so. As Dee is neither an attorney nor a judge, she has no right to ad charges of make believe nor to condemn people without all the facts. Yet she has done so in both cases.

Anonymous said...

When exaggerations, trigger words and twisting and spinning of the truth is used it does show a dishonesty of character in those who do that. Why not just let the facts stand for themselves and have faith in our judicial system to make the right decison in this case?

Dee said...

Liquid,
I see you have finally seen the light. He did have a swastika tattoo which YOU initially denied. Now you finally admit it, yet you TRY to SPIN SPIN SPIN your way out of it.

Why is it you constantly defend the perpetrators of these HATE CRIMES? Very Telling about you!

Liquidmicro said...
Something about this stands out:
who sources said has a SWASTIKA tattoo on his thigh

Its just one word, 'sources', that means there is NO 'proof'.


Liquid said..
Such as I have pointed out in my previous posts like: "THE THUGS HAD SWAZTIKA TATTOOS.

Dee said...

Additionally the NY Post article of a few days ago said his ex girlfriend said she broke up with him because of his swastika tattoo and his move toward the white nationalists. She asked him to stop and he said, "Thats what I believe in."

Go google it yourself Liquid!

Dee said...

Your side continues to minimize the crimes.
Let justice stand?
Initially the sheriff was NOT going to charge these criminals with a crime because he said they were "good boys from good families." They would not have been charged unless WE THE PEOPLE voiced our concern that Justice Must Be Served!

Dee said...

This is so similar to the Civil Rights movement. Many of the racist hate crimes were not charged until the last decade.
Thank Heavens for the Southern Poverty Law Center and Morris Dees! Justice Finally Prevailed!

I will be writing another blog today about the SPLCs involvement in another case!

Thank God for SPLC and Morris Dees!

Dee said...

WE MUST NOT FORGET THE COURTROOM TESTIMONY OF THE FOOTBALL PLAYER WITNESS:

From Courtroom Testimony:
In a six-hour preliminary hearing, Joseph Benjamin Lawson Jr., 17, testified he and the five others in the group drank liquor in the woods before going to the Polish-American Fire Company block party, where they argued with a firefighter about ''messing around'' with other football players.

All three of the accused played on Shenandoah Valley High School's football team last year. Donchak was the quarterback. Lawson testified that, at the block party, Donchak was especially angry.

As they walked to Donchak's house, he testified, they came across Ramirez and Dillman's half-sister, Roxanne, 15, at the park. According to Lawson, another teen, Brian Scully, who has not been charged, said to the girl, ''Isn't it a little late for you to be out?''

The girl didn't answer, but Ramirez replied in Spanish, and Scully replied, ''This is Shenandoah, this is America, go back to Mexico,'' and used racial slurs. The two began fighting, Lawson said.
Donchak hurried to join in, Lawson testified. Ramirez went down and the others stood around him, kicking him to the head and torso, Lawson said. But it was after Ramirez got up, while fighting with Donchak, that Lawson said Walsh ran up and sucker-punched him in the face.

Ramirez fell to the ground with such force his head bounced off the macadam, leaving him unconscious. Then Piekarsky administered a FINAL KICK TO THE HEAD, Lawson said.

Dee said...

NCLR SUPPORTS LONG ISLAND COMMUNITY'S VIGIL AGAINST HATE

Washington, DC—“On the heels of a historic election that symbolizes America’s ideals as a diverse nation, we have been brutally reminded about the consequences of leaving hate unchecked,” said Janet Murguía, President and CEO of the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States. “We stand in solidarity with the Long Island community, which is coming together in a vigil this Friday in Patchogue to condemn the murder of one of their members—an immigrant stabbed to death for being Hispanic.”

“The wave of hate that is seeping through our communities threatens the fabric of our nation and is costing lives. Americans will not be cowed by those trying to advance intolerance—we must stand up to the presence of hate groups and extremists in our communities and speak with one voice to say we will not be dehumanized,” Murguía added.

LMJ said...

Thank you Dee for not letting these cases rest.

LET JUSTICE BE DONE!!!

Dee said...

LMJ,
Thank you for staying strong and continuing the fight too!

ultima said...

“The wave of hate that is seeping through our communities threatens the fabric of our nation and is costing lives. Americans will not be cowed by those trying to advance intolerance—we must stand up to the presence of hate groups and extremists in our communities and speak with one voice to say we will not be dehumanized,” Murguía added.

How much better would have been if she had said, "We ask all Americans to stand up for the rule of law, the apprehension and repatriation of illegal aliens,and the severe punishment of minority and dominant culture hoodlums who indulge in senseless violence against aliens and citizens. We stand with them and will soon announce a program aimed at helping authorities accomplish both purposes. We no longer will support illegal aliens and will advocate the use of E-verify to help identify and apprehend them and their employers. We will ask the congress to streamline deportation proceedings so that such decisions can be made within 24hours with only one week for appeals. Justice delayed is justice denied. We understand that most opposition to illegal aliens and excessive legal immigration is fully justified and we want to lend our support so that everything we value about this country can be saved from the problems of overpopulation,joblessness,crimes of all kinds, disease, poverty and corruption we see in the countries of origin of many of the illegals legal immigrants. We do not want our country to look like theirs and therefore must support secure borders and the repatriation of most of the illegals. We realize that they account for a disproportionate share of certain crimes and want to lend our support to whatever measures may be necessary to re-establish the rule of law as the foundation of our society."

Dee said...

You use the "rule of law" argument only when it is CONVENIENT for you to use it.

Are you advocating sending Piekarsky to prison for his kick to the head of Mr. Ramirez as he lay unconscious? No.

Are you advocating the swastika tattooed Conroy being imprisoned for his hate crime murder of Mr. Lucero? No.

Do you advocate Julie Myers being held accountable for leaking confidential information to the media about an asylum seeker to impact the election? No.

You only utilize the "rule of law" argument when it is CONVENIENT for you to use it.

The laws on the books regarding immigration are civil matters and should be changed just as the Jim Crow laws were changed during the Civil Rights movement. Like Rosa Parks, we are standing up for CHANGE! Change to BAD Laws and the END to HATE CRIMES!!

ultima said...

Dee says,"Cant you acknowledge this HATE CRIME? Cant you acknowledge the responsibility associated with all the hate-anger of this immigration debate that caused Conroy to think Lucero and all "Beaners" are less than equal and able to stomp and murder them with no accountability.

Of course I can and have. It's just that you jump all over these isolated hate crimes but never have I seen you post an article like those traffic incidents I reported. You try to refute other evidence of the criminality of some aliens by impugning the source even though FBI stats were presented. Don't you see that your one-sided approach to the problems of aliens and immigrants is what generates some of the unwillingness to concede what we all know, the miscreants should be punished consistent with the result of their crimes. I have less concern about their motivation because who knows what is really going on in the minds of these jocks. If they kill someone on purpose with prior deliberation, no matter how defective, they are guilty of a pre-meditated attack that resulted in death. Too bad so many communities are prone to excuse the conduct of their star athletes who are really just hoodlums and bullies who like to exercise their macho-ness by attacking those who are smaller, defenseless or simply outnumbered. This was a heinous crime. I'm not sure it was a hate crime if there is such a thing. These are some jocks who never stopped to think about the potential consequences of their actions. They just wanted to go beat up someone. The brown skin simply narrowed their choice. Surely you don't believe this is the first time jocks got out of control and beat up the first person in sight. There are some racial overtones in this episode but in others there isn't but the result is the same--someone is killed or maimed.

I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and that they get no get out of jail free card because of their youth, status as athletes or anything else. I have always thought that our coaches should be teaching their athletes better behavior. Instead of beating up on the smaller kids, they should be making sure no one is doing that. They could do a lot of good in our schools if they were properly taught good citizenship, sportsmanship, and concern for the weak and the meek.

Dee said...

Thank you for that response Ulty.

Also, I did post a blog about the Bologna family in SF. I said the criminals should be punished to the fullest extent of the law!

Dee said...

The Peace Rally on Friday Night on Long Island demonstrates how we as a nation should respond when Race Crimes-Violence occurs:

A crowd of at least 500 people gathered Friday night at the spot in East Patchogue on Long Island where Ecuadorean immigrant Marcelo Lucero was attacked and killed in what appears to have been a bias crime.

The candles were lit around 7 p.m. as a misty rain fell and people were just getting news that a Suffolk County grand jury handed down a sealed indictment in connection with the murder. Seven local teenagers are jailed, six for gang assault and one for murder as a hate crime, but the new indictment will supersede the old charges. The seven high school students will face a judge Tuesday when the indictment is unsealed.

At the rally called by various immigration and civil rights organizations, Long Islanders seemed drawn by a sense of outrage and shame. Ray Brennan of Middle Island said he came just to stand side-by-side with the Ecuadoreans living in the area regardless of their immigration status.

"We have to stop the violence," he said, "and we are here to honor a decent man who didn't deserve to have something like this happen to him."

Kathy Reoder, a mother who lives near the scene of the murder brought her little boy to the rally. She said her mission is simple: "I want my son to know that nobody's better than anyone else, that we're all the same."

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

You use the "rule of law" argument only when it is CONVENIENT for you to use it.

Are you advocating sending Piekarsky to prison for his kick to the head of Mr. Ramirez as he lay unconscious? No.


Oh, they will go to jail, but for a short time, it wont be for charges of Criminal Homicide, only for possible ethnic intimidation and drunk in public, 6 months max, 3 months served.

Liquidmicro said...

Do you advocate Julie Myers being held accountable for leaking confidential information to the media about an asylum seeker to impact the election? No.


There is NO PROOF Meyers leaked any information. More BS hate mongering on your part. Ignorance speaks volumes in your writing.

Liquidmicro said...

Are you advocating the swastika tattooed Conroy being imprisoned for his hate crime murder of Mr. Lucero? No.


If it is shown that he is the one that stabbed Lucero and that it killed him, then YES he should go to prison.

Liquidmicro said...

The laws on the books regarding immigration are civil matters and should be changed just as the Jim Crow laws were changed during the Civil Rights movement. Like Rosa Parks, we are standing up for CHANGE! Change to BAD Laws and the END to HATE CRIMES!!


Our LAWS are for our citizens. "Illegal Aliens" do not fall under our Constitution and thus when they are apprehended, are treated as if they are at the border waiting to come over, hence the repatriation. Now if they are charged with a Infamous Crime (Felony), i.e. Identity Theft, Forged, Stolen Documents, anything that implicates them, they are given the 6th Amendment as required by the UN Charter of 1952. Our LAWS are in no means harsh nor BAD as you profuse as they have NO RIGHT to be here to begin with.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
I see you have finally seen the light. He did have a swastika tattoo which YOU initially denied.


Comprehension lacks in your ability to clearly read what it was I stated. A 'source' in an article is nothing more than mentioning it as a possibility, it is not 'PROOF'. Which is exactly what I stated. The 'proof' then came when you linked to the ex-girlfriend claiming it to be on his thigh and then with the Official saying, yes, there is a tattoo.

As you can see, I never denied it to be there, only requested that you provide a link or links to clearly state that there is one on his thigh. I did this to get you to clarify your statements since you have made them as to all of the boys having swastika tattoo's on their arms. Now that we find out it is a small one on Conyers thigh, it doesn't sound as hateful and incompetent on your behalf, now does it?? I have drawn you out to give correct information vs your inflammatory hate filled accusations and fallacies.

Go ahead and call it spin all you want, your feeble mind will never comprehend what 'truth' really is, your too wrapped up in hate and fear mongering with racial prejudice to accept all the facts and allow justice to run its course.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Your side continues to minimize the crimes.
Let justice stand?
Initially the sheriff was NOT going to charge these criminals with a crime because he said they were "good boys from good families." They would not have been charged unless WE THE PEOPLE voiced our concern that Justice Must Be Served!



I'm guessing here you are talking about the Ramirez case?? Another possibility is because the Sheriff knew there was not enough evidence to prosecute these boys, but the uprising of the ethnocentric crowd cried and screamed to force the Sheriff to do something. Now, its all coming out in the courts, not enough evidence, plea bargains, charges willing to be dropped, individual trials, its all unraveling and Justice is being served, you just don't like the outcome.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Your Feeble Mind can only name call.
You have difficulty keeping up and rarely conduct valid research or provide PROOF for your attacks.

I always consider the source when you continue to Name Call! You Can´t Handle the Truth!

Liquidmicro said...
Go ahead and call it spin all you want, your feeble mind will never comprehend what 'truth' really is, your too wrapped up in hate and fear mongering with racial prejudice to accept all the facts and allow justice to run its course.

Liquidmicro said...

Right Dee, Right. I post links to all my information. I don't exaggerate the facts, or make them up as I go, in order to make allegations or false assumptions, like you do. You have yet to refute anything I have said, you have yet to discredit anything I have said. Until then, just more HOT AIR from you.

Dee said...

The PROOF is all in the testimony of Ben Lawson, the football jock who told the truth.

The PROOF is the testimony of the witnesses including the former Police Officer who called the 911 to report the murder.

Poor feeble minded Liquid cannot handle the truth! All you can do is blame the poor dead victim of this diabolical Kick to the Head HATE CRIME.

And, you certainly have no sympathy for the children who will not have their father to celebrate Christmas this year.

You obviously have an empty hole where a Heart should be.

Shame on you!!

Dee said...

The reason I allow all of you ANTIs to post here is to prove to the world what Heartless, heartless people you are who condone these HATE crimes! Who BLAME the victims for their own murders! While you continue to provide excuses for them and wish them to go scot free!

If they were Latinos you would certainly Rush to Judgement and throw away the key.

I feel sorry for you and for people like you who have No Heart! No Heart at all!

Liquidmicro said...

The PROOF is in Mrs Garcias eye witness reports and interviews. You fail to recognize it.

Are you talking about Crystal's 3 kids or the 15 year old little sisters soon to be baby??

Dee said...

As I said, the Peace Rally on Friday Night on Long Island demonstrates how we as a nation should respond when Race Crimes-Violence occurs:

A crowd of at least 500 people gathered Friday night at the spot in East Patchogue on Long Island where Ecuadorean immigrant Marcelo Lucero was attacked and killed in what appears to have been a bias crime.

The candles were lit around 7 p.m. as a misty rain fell and people were just getting news that a Suffolk County grand jury handed down a sealed indictment in connection with the murder. Seven local teenagers are jailed, six for gang assault and one for murder as a hate crime, but the new indictment will supersede the old charges. The seven high school students will face a judge Tuesday when the indictment is unsealed.

At the rally called by various immigration and civil rights organizations, Long Islanders seemed drawn by a sense of outrage and shame. Ray Brennan of Middle Island said he came just to stand side-by-side with the Ecuadoreans living in the area regardless of their immigration status.

"We have to stop the violence," he said, "and we are here to honor a decent man who didn't deserve to have something like this happen to him."

Kathy Reoder, a mother who lives near the scene of the murder brought her little boy to the rally. She said her mission is simple: "I want my son to know that nobody's better than anyone else, that we're all the same."

Liquidmicro said...

LMJ said...

Thank you Dee for not letting these cases rest.

LET JUSTICE BE DONE!!!


Are you willing to allow Justice to run its course and then except its conclusion?? Or are you for vigilantism and a lynching just because you find the court outcome inadequate in its accountability??

Dee said...

Actually, if justice is not done in this court case, it may be done in the civil law suit.

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