Monday, November 16, 2009

INFIGHTING BETWEEN HATE GROUPS: So Much Infighting Between ANTI Immigration Reformers, TeaBaggers and ANTI Obama Birthers!

Some significant happenings in the Immigration Reform movement this week:

1. Last Friday, the Obama Administration reiterated their support for Comprehensive Immigration Reform legislation in 2010.
2. CNN Dropped Lou Dobbs. His contract was bought for $8M. The BastaDobbs campaign worked!
3. Tea Parties Ship Sank! Willie Gheen decided to make a move to piggy back onto the National Teabaggers party boat by jumping on-board with ANTI Immigration Reform anchors. Unfortunately for Willie, no one showed up to his little parties. Of course Jim Gilchrist, Willie's old nemisis, predicted this, as well as bad times for Jeff Schwilk of the SDMM.

In Boston NO ONE showed up. In Dallas/Ft. Worth, only 34 people showed up. In Phoenix, only the Neo-Nazis showed up and the seven Alipac members got into a fight with them. Just prior to Willie's Teabagger announcement, Jim Gilchrist called out Willie and Jeff Schwilk from the SDMM and called them all racists and asked true teabaggers to stay away! Talk about a civil war within the ranks!

On top of everything else, Fox News confronted Willie and said in their latest poll, over 75% of Americans SUPPORTED some type of Immigration Reform and DID NOT SUPPORT Mass Deportation! Oh Woe is Willie!!

What is coming to light is, there is so much anger and hate and splintering among the ANTI Immigration/Teabagger groups right now, they are having great difficulty in having a common voice. In light of last weekends events, few people think it is possible!

Here is Willie's announcement of the upcoming teabagger events in which he chastised the NeoNazis and other so called hate groups! The groups are broken, fractured and I believe they are in all kinds of danger of splintering even further.

For the record, one should note: A common sub-group in the ANTI Immigration, ANTI Obama, ANTI Economic Reform groups is their core group of people that belong to the White Nationalists, Racist, Nazi type groups. However, Willie and other group leaders are ASHAMED of them, from a public perspective. Even though their CORE GROUP is comprised of such, THEY REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM and instead CHASTISE THEM. Look at what happened in Phoenix between JT Ready and the teabaggers. This is going to happen over and over and over again until these groups splinter, give way and are forever forgotten. Why? The answer lies in all of these group's core principles, founded in HATE and inHumanity and disregard for treating others as YOU want to be treated.

As these Hate-filled groups dwindle, and as positive groups gain momentum, the hate-filled groups should contemplate the error of their ways.


MMPete said...

You had better listen to the video again that you linked to from Fox. It was William Gheen that said that 80% of Americans don't want a CIR that includes amnesty. It wasn't the commenters from Fox on the video who said that 80% do want it. You made a big mistake stating what you did because you have it backwards. You might want to issue a correction to your topic for honesty's sake.

MMPete said...

It is merely your opinion that these are all hate groups. What you really need to be worried about is the millions of Americans opposed to your side's kind of CIR who are not haters but law abiding Americans. Those will be the people you will have to contend with and they will be your biggest threat. Radicals or so-called radicals won't count in the end but do continue to worry about them. It is fun to watch. The rest of us will continue to march on to take our country back.

Dee said...

Relisten to the video from FOX. Yes Gheen LIES and says 80% is for, but listen to what FOX says! They say MOST AMERICANS are FOR Immigration Reform. They made Gheen look like a nut!

Dee said...

Reread the post. It says within each segment, there are groups of KKK, NeoNazis, etc.And each of these segments are infighting with each other. Look at the video from Phoenix as the Neo Nazis fight with the alipacers. Both hate groups fighting like dogs in the street all in the name of HATE!

Dee said...

And look at Gilchrist, chastising both Gheen and Schwilk!! All the infighting!

Meanwhile, as FOX says, MOST AMERICANS, most TRUE Americans SUPPORT Comprehensive Immigration Reform!!

pcorn54 said...

MM Pete should pay more attention to Whining Willies interview on Fox.

After Willy used his much debunked claim that 80% of American's oppose Amnesty, the host pointed out that a real time Twitter poll (much closer to American sentiment than the biased Rasmussen poll that Willy uses) showed over 75% wanted immigration reform. This from the rights "Fair and Balanced" network.

And what does Weeping Willy come up with? A remark about Major Hasan which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. (Except that Willy got to use his favorite tag that he hangs on people who don't agree with him, "Traitor")

MMPete said...

Many Americans may support some kind of immigration reform but that doesn't equate necessarily to an amnesty or path to citizenship as you are implying. To many Americans it just means securing our borders and other measures of improving our existing policies such as E-Verify. I know of very few Americans who desire a blanket amnesty or legalization for these millions here illegally in our country. You need to stop spinning what you hope for into unproven facts.

Vicente Duque said...

Dear Dee :

Thanks for keeping us informed on the whereabouts of all these Hater and Racist Minutemen ( and beggars asking for alms-donations )

It is an excellent idea to have some surveillance and vigilance of all these Madmen and Lunatics, specially when we have seen so much Violence and Murder coming from their ranks, like in the case of the Murder of Brisenia Flores, a beautiful nine year old girl and her father Raul in Arizona, May of 2009. And the other people that Gunny Bush killed. And that is not the end of the roster.

These Lunatics are fueled by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and other Pre-Lunatics, Proto-Lunatics and Hate Merchants that are constantly promoting and agitating for Violence.

The last feat of Sean Hannity is to say that Vietnam was a failure of American Leadership, a failure of Will and Bravery.

Sean Hannity rants about Obama being a sissy coward that his beaten up by the International bullies.

I wonder if this Brave Cow-Boy and SuperMacho of Sean Hannity is going to fight in Afghanistan ( the war that he is promoting ) or if he is going to send his sons and his nephews to a Hell of Violence, Sadism and Murder.

I assume that he his going to give to the U.S. Army some of the millions that he earns promoting war and extermination.

All Wars are Racist Orgies. No clean, disinfected, aseptic or antiseptic Wars.

Figthing Brutality, Sadism and Murder :

Vicente Duque

pcorn54 said...

Get your head outta your ass Pete and do some thinking on your own instead of regurgitating the garbage people like Gheen would have you believe.

AMNESTY: The definition of amnesty is total forgiveness without penalty for a crime or illegal action. NO AMNESTY is being, has been, or will be proposed for the illegal population that you seem obsessed with.

Paying a fine (and the fine should be no more than a Federal Immigration Judge would mandate under code for first time illegal entry) is punishment and therefore throws the "amnesty" out the window.

A background check, learn some English, etc, are all penalties.

What's got your panties in a wad? Gheen and others suggestion that an immigration bill will reward them with citizenship and make them immediately eligible to vote?

What a crock! Everything I've seen points towards a path to LEGALIZATION, much different from citizenship.

LEGALIZATION, such as identifying them and if their record in the US is clear, giving them a legal residence card, and if they desire, a path to becoming a US citizen.

But as history has shown us for the past 70 years or so, before the hysteria of 9/11, Mexican migrants will come to this country, legally or illegally, work there asses off in jobs most of us wouldn't consider, and in the process, make you life and lifestyle better, and then go back home when their goals are met.

They do not come here to rape the welfare system. They do not come here with the defined purpose of having a multitude of new US citizens and they do not over burden the US health care system.

And you cannot, as Willy Gheen often does, demonize and entire group or class of people by the actions of a few.

ultima said...

Yes, the majority of Americans are in favor of CIR but not the kind of CIR proposed and defeated in 2006 and 2007 or was it 2008? Here's the kind of CIR most
Americans would readily accept:
1. E-verify all jobs
2. Reduce legal immigration to 200,000 per year focused on the skills we need. This is exclusive of tourists, students and migrant farm workers.
3. Reduce the number of different types of visas.
4. Vigorously pursue visa overstays.
5. Expedited repatriation of illegals if they cannot make a strong case for staying including proof that they are not competing with citizen labor, that they are socially integrated, and linguisticaly and culturally assimilated.
6. Family separation not allowed as a basis for removal appeal. Minor children must always accompany their parents.
7. Nondiscriminatory application of the rules to all illegal aliens.
8. Continued improvements in border staffing and infrastructure.
9. No catch and release no matter where the illegals are apprehended.
10. Repeat offenders do hard time.
11. A more precise measure of our needs for foreign labor signed off by local unions and professional organizations.
12. Employers are responsible for family health care coverage for all foreign employees and can be billed for any unpaid medical or dental bills.
13. Priority for legal immigration given to English speakers and PhD candidates in science, engineering and math.

Proletariat Defender said...

I didn't realize that keeping our nation a country of States, independent from each other and the national government, was considered "hate".

Tea Party activists are not against Federalism, very much the opposite.


Federalism: National vs. State Government

The U.S. Constitution establishes a government based on "federalism," or the sharing of power between the national, and state (and local) governments. Our power-sharing form of government is the opposite of "centralized" governments, such as those in England and France, under which national government maintains total power.

While each of the 50 states has its own constitution, all provisions of state constitutions must comply with the U.S. Constitution. For example, a state constitution cannot deny accused criminals the right to a trial by jury, as assured by the U.S. Constitution's 6th Amendment.

Under the U.S. Constitution, both the national and state governments are granted certain exclusive powers and share other powers.

Exclusive Powers of the National Government

Under the Constitution, powers reserved to the national government include:

# Print money (bills and coins)
# Declare war
# Establish an army and navy
# Enter into treaties with foreign governments
# Regulate commerce between states and international trade
# Establish post offices and issue postage
# Make laws necessary to enforce the Constitution

Notice nothing about "Welfare" programs or some silly notion of making each state like the rest. In a sense, each state is in competition with each other.

What Tea Party activists are against is the gross power grab to collect and assume all the authority.

Dee said...

A Conservative Blog in Utah, "Voice of Deseret" is just ripping Alipac Willie apart. See his blog:


First, what in hell does Gheen mean by "copyrighted material"? Press releases? That's all I've seen ALIPAC churn out, and a press release can hardly be considered "copyrighted". Empty threats.

Second, Gheen says his movement is for those who “share our non-violent and non-racist multi-ethnic and bipartisan support for secure borders and immigration enforcement”, and further says "THAT CLEARLY EXCLUDES YOU, Mr. Duke, and you as well, Stormfront". On what basis does that exclude Dr. Duke and Stormfront? Both are non-violent. And multi-ethnic does include "white", last time I checked.

Third, Gheen accuses Dr. Duke of "assisting" the ADL and the SPLC. If this is so, those groups have an unusual way of showing "gratitude" for that assistance. They have consistently maligned Dr. Duke and Stormfront as being "white supremacist" and have falsely linked them with street gangs like the Soldiers of Aryan Culture and Silent Aryan Warriors who are nothing more than misfits who use white nationalism as protective cover for personal hooliganism.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Gheen himself has been tagged as a "racist" by the SPLC (which shows how ludicrous they are). Perhaps Mr. Gheen believes that if he publicly and hysterically "dissociates" himself from Dr. Duke and Stormfront, Morris Dees will give him a pat on the head, toss him a couple of Scooby snacks, and grant him "papal-style" absolution from racism. It doesn't work that way, though. The Anti-Hate Cartel does not have a vested interested in toning down their rhetoric; they would forfeit publicity and funding if they didn't constantly up the ante about "racism".

But the giveaway is this statement by Gheen, saying that he would "redirect as much of my time from fighting against illegal immigration groups and direct my attentions to fighting you [Duke]". So in other words, Gheen considers a single white civil rights activist like Dr. Duke to be a greater threat to America's sovereignty than 12 million illegal aliens? This guy is an egomaniac at best, and a nutcase at worst. Or it could be the sign of a possible false flag operative.

This is not the first time William Gheen has engaged in this irrational behavior. In July 2006, he tried the same strongarm tactics against a now-defunct unit of National Vanguard in North Carolina which was promoting immigration reform.

There are numerous other immigration reform groups who know who the real enemy is, and who have a demonstrated capability to remain focused on the real enemy. Don't squander your time and resources on ALIPAC; this organization exists only to gratify William Gheen's selfish pride and vain ambition. Direct your resources more productively elsewhere, particularly to those political candidates who pledge to eliminate illegal immigration through enforcement and attrition. Rep. Jason Chaffetz does more to fight illegal immigration in one day at Congress than William Gheen has done since he founded ALIPAC in 2005.

Dee said...

Here's another blog called "Occidental Dissent" that is really letting Willie have it:

It is another testament to the stupidity and worthlessness of conservatism. I’m willing to bet that +90% of ALIPAC supporters are over 35. The Tea Partiers are overwhelmingly aging Baby Boomers. Conservative rhetoric will fade with that generation. They won’t live to see the long term consequences of their actions.

These failures will lose the fight over comprehensive immigration reform. They have lost every other battle of the culture war. It is going to happen sooner or later.

pcorn54 said...

Well Ultima, you are parroting Willy Gheen, FAIR,CIS, Frosty Wooldridge, Jerome Corsi and other with your 13 points disguised in the verbiage you use, and therefore is not a viable plan for immigration reform.

1. E-Verify is faulty if even one American or legal resident is denied employment or subjected to unwarranted government scrutiny under it's provisions.

2. We have many more jobs available that Americans will not do than 200,000. A better idea is to give work visas to those who apply that can prove they have a job waiting that no citizen is available to do.

3. There is no point in that. Each class of visa has it's own purpose. But we know your comment on this is aimed a H1B visas.

4. This could easily be done as we have the technology available in use now in our US Passports and passport cards. But if it was done, your side would blame President Obama for violating privacy laws or some other such nonsense.

5. Your side just can't get over the fact that Hispanics feel comfortable talking amongst themselves in the native language can you? Or that businesses post multi lingual signs in some locations to increase their customers and acommodate others. It probably gets your panties in a wad that they cook native dishes in their homes and probably prefer a neighborhood taquiria or cantina. They assimilate very well while holding intact their family morals and values.

6. Your sides most pressing problem. The idea that babies born in this country are given their birthright citizenship. Family is very important in the Hispanic culture, more so perhaps than in ours.

7. In other words, round em up and ship them all out? Doesn't sound like reform to me.

8. No Ultima! You're not going to see a Berlin style wall with machine gun turrent's, mine fields and sniper picking off transgressors. As someone who crosses both borders many times a month, Border security, especially at the southern border is tight as it has ever been.

9. There has been no catch and release in over two years.

10. Repeat offenders usually do do time for continued trespass.

11. The one thing we don't need is the unions involved. Jobs illegals do generally are not union jobs anyway

12. We get immigration reform, and with the passage of the healthcare bill, you'll have most of your wish. Illegals are generally young healthy males which don't need healthcare, and those that do, unless a life or death situation, use clinics set up by local charities, to avoid detection.

13. Now you've just given the reason we need to pass the DREAM ACT. Children who were brought here against their will, speak English and American in every way except for that pesky little 9 digit number. Who have put themselves through institutions of higher learning, paying their own way, some perhaps with help form private scholarships. They have Masters and Higher degrees in fields that would benefit the US, yet your side wants to deport them because of the action of their parents, to a country they know nothing about. And you want PHD's and other brainers? There is more need for people to clean our hotels and homes, do our lawns, work the kill floor in packing houses and such than there are for PHD's

Get real Ultima. I guess now I will qualify for a nasty little website like you made for our host Dee here.

MMPete said...

Parroting the NCLR, Mecha, Lulac, Hispanic Caucus, etc. is a viable plan for immigration reform? Like rewarding those who have violated our immigration laws with citizenship? Like adding millions to our population permanantly and their extended families whom they could sponsor? Like having a high unemployment rate but justifying a huge foreign population to remain in our country? Like adding millions of unskilled and uneducated to our society? Like the continued depletion of our natural resources and increased demands for all sorts of services by increasing our population by the millions permanently? Yeah, that makes so much more sense.

I Travel for JOOLS said...

I totally resent being referred to as part of a hate group just because I am involved in patriotic tea parties. What you all are missing is there are a lot more of me than you think. We are tired of enormous spending to support pet political projects in exchange for votes. Tired of a debt that is unsustainable. Tired of lies about stimulus "jobs" saved or created. Tired of wall street raking in our tax dollars while giving themselves huge bonuses. Tired of ACORN's fraud and lies. Tired of union thug tactics. Tired of people who think this country owes them health care, medicaid and every other government program even when they are not citizens or legal immigrants. TIRED of being called racists and members of hate groups when we are simply TAX PAYERS who have had ENOUGH !

MMPete said...

1. Do you know of anything that is perfect? E-verify is the closest thing we have to perfection with a 98-99% accuracy rate. How else do you suggest that employers screen potential employees?

2. Proof, please.

3. Again, proof, please.

4. No, it would be your side that woud object for those reasons. They are already crying racial profiling for pursuing non-visa illegals.

5. Ultima didn't say Hispanics illegal or otherwise shouldn't be allowed to speak Spanish. He just said they should learn English. He didn't say they couldn't practice their culture any longer either.

6. Ultima never even mentioned birthright citizenship here he just said that children should remain with their parents. Hispanics are no more family orientated than other ethnic groups. To claim so borders on racism towards other groups.

7. Your remark here didn't even relate to what Ultima said.

8. Ulima never said that border security should include land mines, etc. So why are you implying he said that? He just said we need tighter border security which is obvious by the numer of illegal still getting through our southern border.

9. I hope you are right about that at the border. Catch and release definately needs to stop if it hasn't already. From what I understand catch and release is still practiced internally however and then the illegal doesn't show up for their court date. Only OTM'S are detained without being released.

10. Good and that needs to continue.

11. But some sort of research still needs to be done to determine our actual needs for foreign labor.

12. You forgot about their usage of our maternity wards and their children with the sniffles.

13. it is more then about a pesky little 9 digit number. Let's give these immigrants with those degrees still waiting to come here a chance first. And let's give American kids who need the in state tuition first dibs at that also.

MMPete said...

Hmm, this is interesting. Who was fighting who now?

Tea partiers brutally beaten by pro-amnesty group
Shocking! Illegal immigration protesters attacked, pushed into traffic

Posted: November 17, 2009
10:13 pm Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Che Guevara supporters with a radical pro-amnesty coalition viciously attacked and bludgeoned tea party protesters at a Florida anti-illegal-immigration rally, including a 62-year-old man who was beaten and kicked in the face.

Americans for Legal Immigration PAC called for "Tea Parties Against Amnesty and Illegal Immigration" to form quickly across the nation on Nov. 14. In less than 30 days, protests were scheduled for more than 50 towns and cities.

But two Fort Lauderdale, Fla., tea party protesters were brutally beaten by pro-amnesty activists on the day of the nationwide rally as they attempted to film Florida's Act Now to Stop War and End Racism Coalition counterprotest.

ANSWER members carried Che Guevara signs and other black and yellow placards that stated "Full rights for all immigrants." They shouted, "Amnesty yes, racists no!"

As the two men attempted to film the protest, an ANSWER member in a black tanktop and blue jeans lunged after one of the cameramen and beat him with a sign, pushing him into traffic. Another ANSWER member in a white T-shirt attacked the same cameraman while the victim defended himself with what appears to be a camera tripod.

A female tea party protester began screaming as Dave Caulkett of Floridians for Immigration Enforcement and the initial ANSWER attacker fought in the middle of the street.

Dee said...

Actually, the TOPIC here is the INFIGHTING between these groups.

Gheen is fighting with Gilchrist and now with David Duke. Many within the ranks want to lead ALL the groups. Others are resisting. There is NO COMMON Purpose and NO Common Leader. This infighting is growing and growing and splintering the groups apart.

MMPete said...

"Gheen is fighting with Gilchrist and now with David Duke. Many within the ranks want to lead ALL the groups. Others are resisting. There is NO COMMON Purpose and NO Common Leader. This infighting is growing and growing and splintering the groups apart."

And just why should this be of interest to the majority of anti's who aren't even a part of any these groups?

As I said, there are millions of Americans who oppose illegal immigration aside from those you mentioned in this topic and they will be the real force to be reckoned with.

Proletariat Defender said...

"2. We have many more jobs available that Americans will not do than 200,000. A better idea is to give work visas to those who apply that can prove they have a job waiting that no citizen is available to do."

What jobs are these again? I forget...

That is a pretty flaccid argument. How do I know?

I'm doing these "jobs that Americans won't do".

The problem lies more in the social stigma of doing these jobs, as well as the rate-of-pay.

Sure, I do these jobs part time, for extra money, but I still do them.

Picking oranges in March, cleaning offices on the weekends, and hanyman work on a reference basis.

All while working a full-time job and raising two kids.

Just tell people to grow up, man up, and take care of their family.

Proletariat Defender said...

In regards to the hate groups:
They have always hated each other.

When have you seen a joint KKK-Aryan Nation demonstration?

I'm not at all surprised that the anti-illegal immigration folks jumped onto the Tea-party bandwagon (which was more to do with government spending than immigration policy), because they saw an opportunity to protest with a larger crowd.

Now that you had the anti-illegal immigration crowd mixed in, the racists would naturally be attracted- most illegal immigrants are not "white", and they saw an oppurtunity to demonstrate with a larger crowd that they thought would tolerate their racist ideology.

Now you have three groups with fairly different views (sure, there will be a few people that share all three ideologies) problems are sure to arise.

Remember the Battle in Seattle?

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