Thursday, April 24, 2008

Letter from a Latino Veteran to the Governor of Arizona: "PLEASE STOP THE RACIAL PROFILING IN ARIZONA"

An Arizona Veteran, Latino blogger, and my new friend, George Velez, wrote the following letter to Az. Gov. Janet Napolitano:

My Angry Letter to Encourage Change
April 24, 2008 – 5:24 am
Dear Governor Napolitano,
I am first and foremost a proud American. I was born in America. I served in the Armed Forces for 6 years. My dad is a retired military veteran with three tours of duty in Viet Nam. Both of my parents legally immigrated from Peru in the sixties. I pay my taxes, and I exercise the right to cast my vote regularly. My two kids are both honor’s students in school. Our entire family has never been in any sort of legal trouble, and we love living in Arizona (since 1989).
However, and it’s a big however, I am beginning to question if I wish to continue living in Arizona. Namely the actions of Joe Arpaio’s saturation raids are forcing me to examine if living in Arizona might deter my family’s pursuit of happiness. Because of my Hispanic heritage, I have a fear that my kids, my brother, or I might get caught up in Arpaio’s dragnet. I find myself ensuring our vehicles are washed and clean at all times. I intentionally avoid any potentially ethnic areas of the city, and I am constantly preaching to my family to make sure they don’t forget to bring any ID cards along– just in case.
Having to live like this with the threat of getting racially profiled by officers of the law distresses me.
I don’t mind complying with the law. In fact, my best friend from my military days in Georgia moved to Arizona in the early 90’s and presently is an officer in MCSO. I just don’t want my kids exposed to this sort of racism. The ends do not justify the means - especially to innocent, law abiding Arizona citizens.
I have read in news articles of your opposition to Arpaio’s tactics, and I applaud it. The purpose of this letter is to add one more voice of opposition and ask for your continued leadership in making Arizona a great state.
Respectfully,
George M. Velez

118 comments:

patriot said...

Some American he is equating racism to enforcing our immigration laws and I don't care if he did serve in the military. It is obvious he is an ethnocentric rather that a loyal American.

All of his claims of he and his family being targeted and then something terrible happening to them just for being asked for I.D. is ridiculous. He and his family are U.S. citizens for God's sake and would have proper I.D. I don't know of anyone who doesn't carry I.D. with them on a daily basis.

We anti's know what the true agenda is of the screams of racial profiling by the pro illegals. It has nothing to do with fear for Hispanic citizens but fear of the capturing of illegal aliens with like ethnicity. The resulting deportations slows down the "ultimate" more distant agenda that the pros have.

George said...

Wow. This is the first time I've ever been accused of not being a loyal American! Interesting. As far as being pro or anti illegal immigration, I am still working on that one. I haven't truly decided where I stand.
I attended predominately white schools throughout my life - dad was in the military and most DoD schools were mostly white. I received a Presidential appointment from Ronald Reagan to the US Air Force Academy (one of 100 available). I served along with my brother and wife in Desert Storm. I pay my taxes. I buy American cars. I love my mom and apple pie, too. I am not sure what more I can do to be a loyal American, lol.
Anyways, whenever I work out or play hockey, I didn't use to bring my wallet with me. Now I do. I had both my kids get Arizona ID cards even though they aren't driving yet-- because of possible racial profiling.
I find it offensive that my family or I could potentially be pulled over solely because of my race. In fact, I would argue that I am so much a real American that I don't deserve to be subject to racist policies like Arpaio's saturation raids.
Last thing, I consider myself everything-centric! It takes all kinds, man. That's the beauty of the USA.

Dee said...

George, You are a true American Hero and Patriot. Dont mind Pat.
On my blog, we encourage both sides to discuss the Immigration issues civilly.
I´ve been trying to help the commenters here understand what you all are going through in AZ. I was glad to see your heartfelt letter to the governor.

I am hoping your sharing your perspective will help ALL viewers understand what is really going on and WHY Racial Profiling is so Wrong!!

George said...

Dee. I agree with you about the racial profiling issue. I feel almost hypocritical voicing my concerns now that it affects me, and not saying or doing anything when Arabs were/are being racial profiled, blacks in the 60's and still even now being profiled. The only reason I continue to bring up military service is because I served (during peace and war) to preserve what America and the Constitution is all about. Racial profiling is wrong, offensive, and un-American!

Liquidmicro said...

From one soldier to another George, Thank You.

As for Racial Profiling, what Arpaio is doing is enforcing the law. People , no matter race/color/ethnicity, are being pulled over for any/all violations to their driving, vehicle code, jay walking, littering, etc. The people Arpaio is arresting are those that have outstanding warrants, violators of laws that require being taken down town, etc. "Deputies were ordered to stop drivers for minor traffic violations and asked for identification, officials with the sheriffs department said. In some cases deputies detained people for littering." Arpaio’s migrant, crime patrol targets Guadalupe

Previous "sweeps" netted 165 criminals, cleared 40 warrants, and found just under 80 "Illegal Immigrants".

The question I have is, if Arpaio was Hispanic, would there still be an uproar? What if he was Black, or Asian?

An Officer has the "right" to pull some one over if there is a code violation, or if there is probable cause. Arpaio's posse is using these "rights" to do their job. Still it is up to the officer that pulls you over, his discretion, whether he gives you a ticket, a warning, or further investigates your status. If you have authentic documentation, no warrants, there should be no problems.

If this is considered "Racial Profiling" just because a single town has a population of 17.46% White, 1.07% Black or African American, 44.19% Native American, 0.13% Asian, 0.21% Pacific Islander, 31.22% from other races, and 5.72% from two or more races. 72.34% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. It looks pretty diverse to me, except that Lation@'s/Hispanics are the majority, then how is the Sheriff suppose to do his job?

What if the town were majority White, and a Hispanic Sheriff was doing these sweeps, would it still be racial profiling in the PRO's eyes?

For the racial profiling crusaders they have created a headlong movement without providing a shred of credible evidence that "racial profiling" is a widespread police practice.

According to the racial profiling crowd, the war on "Illegal Immigration" has become a war on Hispanics/Latin@s, on the highways and off. Their alleged evidence for racial profiling comes in two varieties: anecdotal, which is of limited value, and statistical, which on examination proves entirely worthless.

The allegation that Arpaio is systematically singleing out Hispanics/Latin@s for unjustified law enforcement ultimately stands or falls on numbers. In suits against police departments across the country, the ACLU and the Justice Department have waved studies aplenty allegedly demonstrating selective enforcement. None of them have held up to scrutiny.

Liquidmicro said...

Here's one for you!


Illegals ask sheriff's office for ride home to Mexico

April 24th, 2008 @ 4:00pm
by KTAR Newsroom

Four illegal immigrants have asked the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office for a ride back home to Mexico, according to department officials.

A department press release says the four were in the Aguila area, west of Phoenix seeking work.

They admitted they were in the country illegally and after being unable to find work, they wanted a return ride to Mexico.

They were processed by the MCSO human smuggling unit and turned over to ICE. ICE granted their request and sent them home.

MCSO says Aguila area residents have sought the department's help because of "problems related to illegal immigration," according to the statement.

Anonymous said...

I am hispanic and I always have identification on me as most people do. If I am ever asked, I will show my ID and move along. If
I were harassed after showing my ID, I would file a lawsuit. It is a shame that one race of people are affecting all legal hispanics in this country. George, you sound proud that you served your country in the military and rightfully you should. You are an American!

Dee said...

The facts are, DPS reports have proven that Racial Profiling is occuring in Arizona. Reports : "conclude that DPS officers treated persons from different racial and ethnic groups unequally between July 2006 and June 2007. Minorities were more likely than whites to be searched and stopped for longer periods of time. This unequal treatment was not justified by higher contraband seizure rates from minority motorists"

patriot said...

George lost me when he claimed that the sweeps are based on racism. Any respect or credibility went right out the window.

Liquid, excellent post and excellent points!

Dee said...

Additionally, Arizona mayors and Chiefs of Police have gone to the FBI and asked that Sheriff Arpaio be investigated for his Racial Profiling.
The Mayor of Guadalupe asked Arpaio and his men to leave.
Arpaio unneccessarily interrupted a children´s Confirmation Mass. Pictures of Latino children terrified and crying in fear during Arpaios sweeps supported the Mayor´s requests to the FBI.

Dee said...

George,
As I said, You are a true American Hero and Patriot.
Dont mind Pat and some of the other posters who do not live in Arizona and are not experiencing what you and your family are experiencing.
On my blog, we encourage both sides to discuss the Immigration issues civilly. Sometimes some of the ANTIs are somewhat disrespectful to our PRO viewpoint, however, as long as they are not profane, I do allow their posts to remain. I think it is important that viewers see both sides of this debate and judge for themselves.

Hran said...

The Hispanics here are complaining about racial profiling. For one thing: just face it, the illegals in Arizona are from Mexico or other Latin American countries. It just makes sense.

Furthermore, suppose an officer pulls George or one of his children over. They speak perfect English. Is anything going to happen? No.

In fact, what is the worse case scenario? Being detained for a few minutes? If Hispanics don't want to be profiled, then help crack down on the ongoing invasion.

Dee said...

As reported by the Tucson Citizen:
A group of Hispanic state lawmakers called Thursday for a federal civil rights investigation of sweeps by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office that have led to arrests of dozens of illegal immigrants.
"There can be no disagreement with the fact that violations of people's rights are not acceptable and clearly unconstitutional," said Rep. Ben Miranda, D-Phoenix.
Accusing sheriff's officials of racial profiling, Miranda and other members of the group said at a news conference they had sent a letter asking U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey to investigate.
In recent weeks, sheriff's deputies and posse members have conducted what they refer to as saturation patrols in areas with large populations of illegal immigrants, drawing protests from immigrant rights advocates and civil rights groups.
Earlier this month, Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon sent a letter asking the FBI and Justice Department to investigate the sweeps, ordered by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
Members of the Arizona Latino Legislative Caucus, all of them Democrats, said Arpaio is using the patrols to grab election-year headlines.
"I don't know if his real intentions are to stop criminal activity, and if it is then he should consult with the local police agencies so they can get to those criminal activities that he purportedly says are happening," said Sen. Richard Miranda, D-Phoenix.
Rep. Ben Miranda said Hispanics, even those who are citizens, are living in fear.
"People are afraid in this time in Phoenix, Arizona, in Maricopa County, to go to church, to go to school, to go shopping," he said.

Dee said...

Hran,
At least you admit Racial Profiling is, in fact, occuring.

However,
Racial Profiling is ALWAYS Wrong!

Hran said...

Let me just add.

None of the non-European immigrants that have come into the US since 1965 are Americans. Yes, many have done sterling work for the Empire. But they are not ethnic Americans.

So whatever the resume shows, they cannot be American, any more than I can be Japanese or Ethiopian.

And let's talk about Phoenix. There are parts of Phoenix (I know from personal experience) where the cops will come up to WHITES and tell them to move on. Why, you ask? Because the neighborhood is completely Mexican, and whites are not safe there.

Ethnic cleansing in action.

Liquidmicro said...

"The federal government so far seems unconcerned. “He has stayed within the bounds of the agreement,” Matthew Allen, special agent in charge of immigration and customs enforcement in Arizona, told The Arizona Republic. Jim Pendergraph, an I.C.E. official from Washington, told the paper that after driving to Guadalupe to watch Sheriff Joe in action: “I saw nothing that gave me heartburn.”"

This kind of sums it up, doesn't it!! Police set up "check points" all the time to verify Insurance, children in car seats, license, seat belts, broken/cracked windows, tags, license, DUI/DWI, and other safety concerns. In one day 30 outstanding warrants were cleared + 18 other warrants at the same time, thats 48 warrants in one day cleared by Arpaio's check points. and yet, he still gets re-elected, go figure.

Dee said...

"Mayor Phil Gordon of Phoenix has denounced Arpaio, saying the raids are interfering with undercover city police officers and federal agents. The mayor of Guadalupe implored him to leave her community alone. State and county officials have pointed out that Sheriff Joe has ignored tens of thousands of criminal warrants. They say he has grossly violated the terms of his 287(g) agreement - which calls for federal oversight of local police - and have called on Washington to rein him in."

Dee said...

Hran,
You do realize that what you said is strictly your opinion. No one agrees with you but other WNs in your group.

HRAN said:
"None of the non-European immigrants that have come into the US since 1965 are Americans."

Anonymous said...

Sheriff Joe gets voted in. He must be doing something right!

dianne said...

Today this article from the Kansas City Star. Please read it as well as the comments in reference to the article.

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/589186.html

Several times on this blog I have mentioned my little town of about 5,000 people in Kansas that has started to be overrun with illegal immigrants. The article above on the front page of the KC Star today deals with a woman who had her identity stolen by an illegal immigrant. She found out when the IRS came after her for taxes in several places she never worked. Well, one of those places happened to be the very same company in my home town that I have spoken about before that it is main reason we have so many illegal immigrants.
What did she do when she found out that the thief worked in a nearby town (mine). She got in her car and drove here to find the thief and confront her. Along the way she asked a sheriff for directions and he said he'd take her there as only last week he had arrested somebody else at the same company. So they went and the person who was stealing her identity was caught red-handed on the job.

Now, it seems, our county doesn't have the resources to handle all these cases and so they are probably going to simply charge her with identity theft and put her right back on the street on probation without serving any time or paying for her crimes. The victim, well she is left with trying to straighten out her identity all by herself and she says nobody advocates for the victims. Her identity is being used in several places across the country. She said none of the authorities even bother to respond to her.

Finally, I want to leave you with a comment on the article from a Hispanic person in Kansas City.


As a Hispanic, I find the whole issue of illegal immigration to be highly hypocritical for Latin-Americans to act as if they have a "right" to steal into our country to steal an identity so they can steal into a job so they can send their stolen wages back to their country while stealing the futures and dreams of the workers whose salaries they are stiffling.

What Mrs. Bien has endured is as traumatic an event as having your home ransacked. Phil Kline should try Miss Cano on all counts and demand the sentence be suspended as long as she does not ever return to the United States. If she returns, legally or not, she should then begin to serve her sentence. Do this to enough, and throw them in the brig when they do come here, and you'll see that scrupulous enforecement is effective.

We need laws like the ones being passed in Arizona and Oklahoma. Take away the incentive to break the law and increase the penalties and enforcement, and you'll see the numbers of illegals drop.

*
Posted by: Augusto Perez

Dee said...

Hey Dianne,
Welcome back.

I agree with some of the other commenters on the KC Blog that the Employer should have verified ID of their employees. Is it the same plant you said imported foreign workers? Is there some complicity? As far as the worker, I agree she should be charged.

The issue here, however, is all Latinos should not be racially profiled because of the crimes of a few. That would be like asking all Middle aged white males to be racially profiled when BTK, or Gacy or "To Catch A Predator" laws were broken.

George said...

A respectful tip of the hat to you liquidmicro. I really like your use of stats. Stats, even though they are often open to interpretation, hold a lot of weight for me. On the other hand, I wouldn't summarily dismiss anecdotal evidence. Sometimes it's hard to get a pulse out of quantitative evidence. The feel of the streets isn't something you can necessarily put numbers on. As a Latino, I can tell you the tone of everyday life depends on where you happen to be or whom you happen to be talking to, and it wasn't like this just a handful of years ago.
Why do you think MCSO is targeting towns like Guadalupe and predominantly Latino areas of the valley? Why not Scottsdale or Paradise Valley? My wife used to work as a 911 dispatcher for the City of Scottsdale. Trust me. There's plenty of crime there, and it's not all white-collar.
When you see the circus-like atmosphere of saturation raids just in time for the 6 o'clock news, it kind of makes you wonder how pure Arpaio's motivations really are.

dianne said...

Yes, Dee, I think there is complicity with this company although they will deny it. I'm sure if ICE came in there'd be charges of racial profiling because the workforce is almost entirely Hispanic in a town that barely had any Hispanics before this company arrived.

That is my point with regard to racial profiling. If there is a majority of Hispanics in any one location, it seems that any enforcement action is automatically labeled as racial profiling. Recently we have had several hit and run accidents practically across the street from this plant. They hit another car and speed off. If the sheriff set up a "sting" at this location to stop drivers committing unlawful acts, I bet there would be cries of racial profiling simply because the plant is across the street. That is not right. What the officers would be doing would be sending a message that it is not ok to drive without a license or insurance and leave the scene of an accident.

Just last week about 1 block from the plant an intoxicated Hispanic driver rammed into the laundromat and took off. 5 minutes later he flipped his vehicle just down the road and was pronounced dead at the scene. Fortunately, he didn't hit anyone else. Unfortunately, he lost his life.

You see, my point is that just because law enforcement tries to prevent crimes in an area that happens to be populated by Hispanics does not mean they are racially profiling anybody.

Liquidmicro said...

We all know what his motivations are, he even says what they are. However, the way he is going about it is what is in question, its what Dee is calling Racial Profiling. The fact remains that he is within the law in his practices, and there is no Racial Profiing.

Out here where I live, its a small town outside of Sacramento. The small local police set up DUI/DWI checkpoints quite frequently. They catch more than just DUI/DWI offenders. That is the function of the officers, to make our safety, our individual safety, their main concerns. They apprehend drunk drivers, they apprehend probation violators, they apprehend drug users, they give tickets for vehicle code violations, all to improve everybody's safety.

As for other parts of the valley in AZ, maybe he just hasn't gotten there yet, I really don't know. Maybe the local police are 287(g) certified as well. Maybe the towns don't have contacts with the Sheriffs office. It could be any number of these or others.

Liquidmicro said...

As for Scottsdale to answer your question, here is what I found, and probably why Arpaio isn't in there.

Scottsdale crime rate drops 4%

infoaces.com said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
George said...

Yeah, googled the same article before I posted, but it didn't really seem relevant. A 4% decrease is definitely in the right direction, but 4% is kind of a small number. Also, I'm not sure if you'll agree, but I don't think the article's definition of crime is what Arpaio is tackling. He's chasing down an altogether different definition of crime, and it's the method and tactics that disturbs me and a lot of Arizona government officials.

Dee said...

The reason for the 4% decrease is because Chief of Police Rodbell does NOT follow Arpaio´s racial profiling tactics.

From your article Liquid, even the Chief of Police disagrees with Arpaios tactics. He does not racial profile at Lowes or Cirle K as Arpaio does:

"During the question-answer period, Chief of Police Rodbell steered clear of a question about the controversy surrounding Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's roundups of undocumented immigrants.

Rodbell said Arpaio is within his jurisdiction to conduct the raids, but that Scottsdale takes a DIFFERENT approach.

"We are not targeting parking lots at Lowe's or Circle K," Rodbell said, referring to places some immigrants gather to solicit work."

Dee said...

Latest knews on what the heinous sheriff Arpaio is doing to promote himself and continue his "breaking news" tactics:

"Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio plans to take his next crime sweep to Mesa, even though Mesa police officials HAVE NOT asked for his assistance.

Does that mean Arpaio is violating the federal agreement that gives deputies the authority to enforce immigration laws?

Critics of the crime sweeps say YES. They point to LANGUAGE IN THE AGREEMENT that suggests Arpaio must get permission from local authorities before using immigration-trained deputies to conduct crime operations in their communities.

Arpaio and federal authorities say no. They argue the crime sweeps are not immigration-related, so no permission is needed.

The conflicting views show how complying with federal agreements that give police the power to enforce immigration laws can be a matter of interpretation."

YOU SEE LIQUID. ARPAIO´S ARGUMENT IS LIKE YOURS. SEMANTICS!!

Liquidmicro said...

From the article, "Rodbell said Arpaio is within his jurisdiction to conduct the raids, but that Scottsdale takes a DIFFERENT approach."

I've told you before, semantics play a big role in everything. Here, in Scottsdale's Police Chief Rodbell agrees with my side/interpretation. Only their tactics are different.

Arpaio may set up his checkpoints at known locations of possible Illegal Immigrant spots, near a Home Depot, etc., while Rodbell may set his up along a freeway intersection. Rodbell is also having an effect on "Illegal Immigrants" you just fail to recognize his efforts as Much as Arpaio's.

Anonymous said...

"What Arpaio is doing is enforcing the law."

The Gestapo just enforced the law too. That doesn't make it right. Our country has a history of bad laws that have been opposed either directly or indirectly (through letters to the governor, courts, etc...) by normal citizens trying to do the right thing. Hell, our country was *founded* by law breakers.

I'd rather have all of Mexico free to come and go as they please (like citizens can do in the European Union countries) than turn the United States into a police state like Communist Russia or Nazi Germany though these "enforce the law" efforts.

Dee said...

Liquid,
The problem you are having is you are not listening to what people like George or Anon are saying.
The saturation of raids in Latino areas in time for the 6 oclock news tells you exactly what is going on. Racial Profiling, pure and simple!


George´s quote:
The feel of the streets isn't something you can necessarily put numbers on. As a Latino, I can tell you the tone of everyday life depends on where you happen to be or whom you happen to be talking to, and it wasn't like this just a handful of years ago.
Why do you think MCSO is targeting towns like Guadalupe and predominantly Latino areas of the valley? Why not Scottsdale or Paradise Valley? My wife used to work as a 911 dispatcher for the City of Scottsdale. Trust me. There's plenty of crime there, and it's not all white-collar.
When you see the circus-like atmosphere of saturation raids just in time for the 6 o'clock news, it kind of makes you wonder how pure Arpaio's motivations really are.

Liquidmicro said...

Actually Dee, I am listening to George, he makes some good points. You are refusing to listen to what I have posted. Everything falls back to semantics.

"With many of the people interviewed, however, rumors more than facts seemed to be driving the fear.

For example, a community meeting two weeks ago in west Mesa was well-attended by Hispanics and Spanish speakers despite rumors otherwise, said Mesa police spokesman Steve Berry.

"The media has gone nuts on this," Berry said, adding that news reports have hyped the drama. "If you ask enough people if they've seen a ghost, somebody's going to tell you they saw a ghost."

City Councilman Scott Somers also characterized the media attention and controversy surrounding the sheriff's actions as "overblown."
...
In previous sweeps, supporters and critics of the actions alike showed up en masse at the front lines to take part in loud, vocal demonstrations.

At the most recent operation three weeks ago in the tiny town of Guadalupe, some protesters brought guns, causing other protesters to back off and the sheriff's office to move its central command center into nearby Mesa."


Did those protesters have gun permits? Again, most of this is "RUMOR", overblown hype. Scottsdale's Police are also 287(g) verified, yet the hype isn't so much on them.

Without "RULES" anon, you get chaos and anarchy, each man for himself, that wouldn't bother me as I can take care of myself and my family. But then we get the weak parish while the strong survive. Even Adam and Eve had rules, they violated them and look what happened.

Anonymous said...

From Anon 4
From Anon 4
Dianne writes about an illegal alien that had been charged with identity theft. I clicked on the site that she provided. My question is: why didn’t anybody penalize the employers? A Lenexa Taco Bell. A Wendy’s restaurant. Two Target stores, one in California. These are national chains and are easy to find. I had to do a little digging for the Engineered Air manufacturing plant in De Soto, but found it at:
http://www.city-data.com/zips/66018.html

ENGINEERED AIR
32050 W 83RD
DE SOTO, KS
TANKS-82151, UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANK PROGRAM
COMPLIANCE ACTIVITY (Tracking inspections of insecticide, fungicide, and rodenticide, and toxic substances)
Small Quantity Generators, between 100 kg and 1000 kg of hazardous waste/month (Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (tracking hazardous waste)) - notification ALUMINUM DIE-CASTINGS; AIR-CONDITIONING AND WARM AIR HEATING EQUIPMENT AND COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT

Does this company somehow get a pass?

Dee said...

Liquid,
The facts are Mayors and Chiefs of Police in Arizona have requested the FBI investigate Arpaio for Racial Profiling.
Additionally, regardless of your semantics, FEAR is REAL. From your same article:
"Mesa, it seems, has become a city on edge, its people wondering what will happen next.

"Everyone is mortified - alarmed, really," said a Spanish-speaking man in central Mesa. Though he was a legal U.S. resident, he asked that his name not be used for fear he would be targeted in the sweeps.

"They don't know what corner or what place this is going to take place at," he said. "People with kids are especially worried. They don't know if, when they leave for work, they're going to come home."

In dozens of interviews, covering a wide spectrum of the community, many people, from day laborers to city leaders, say they are worried about the sweeps. Tensions are running particularly high in heavily Hispanic neighborhoods where some predict the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office will strike first.

Meanwhile, Arpaio is remaining tight-lipped about the details.

Hran said...

Dee:
Your hysteria over this racial profiling thing shows what a morass ethnic Americans are in. We cannot defend ourselves without causing Hispanic furor. Imagine the outcry if we started to encourage repatriation of citizens who are not ethnic Americas.

Dee said...

Hran,
Racial Profiling is wrong.
There will always be an outcry from citizens when wrongs continue and are not righted.

And you are right. If WNs or other ANTIs begin an effort to repatriate ANY US CITIZENS from ANY Ethnicity to their ethnic country of origin, you can bet there will be a Tremendous Outcry!

So you can do yourselves a favor by never attempting to initiate this.

In American, ALL CITIZENS are EQUAL, regardless of ethnicity.

Pro Inmigrant said...

Welcome to a rational discussion on this forum george. The true Patriot not like others who's called themselves patriots just for their stand against Immigration. Pathetic eh..

Liquid how really improved the life of Arizonans with Joe Arpaio unlawful tactics against Hispanic when the real crime rising from 2006 to 2007.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/prelim2007/table4al_ca.htm
Are you will be blaming the Undocumented Immigrants for that too.
There is a scapegoating and racial profiling against Hispanics (Meaning Brown skin and Hispanics surnames)in Arizona.

Liquidmicro said...

They are not FACTS, Dee, they are simple opinion. Nobody has presented any Factual based information. So far it all hearsay. Its all opinion.

Yes, law is open to interpretation, its all in how you interpret the provisions and how well you present your case. There are just as many other city officials and Police chiefs that are on Arpaio's side. Even the Federal Government ICE Agent in charge of AZ says Joe is good to go.

Pro, your table shows many different crimes, which are you referring to? Since only 30% of the statistical crimes have risen while 70% have gone down, just in Mesa. So to answer your question, I would say that the personal safety has pretty much increased in AZ due to crime suppression checkpoints.

George said...

This is admittedly a cheap shot, but I'd be curious of the extent that check points/saturation raids affected the crime rate and increased personal safety in Germany in the late 30's/early 40's??

patriot said...

It still comes down to "what have legal Hispanics to fear"? They have I.D. and they are legally in this country. The use of the terminology of racial profiling or criminal profiling doesn't really matter because nothing bad will happen to legal Hispanic citizens because of it. I am still waiting to hear how this is causing fear among legal Hispanics. What have they to fear???????????

Hran said...

Dee,

"... you can bet there will be a Tremendous Outcry!"

It would be practically a civil war.

So ethnic Americans like myself are faced with a conundrum, one that is not faced by Hispanics and other ethnic groups.

As Patriot and I have said again and again, the ethnic composition of Latin American countries is not changing.

Same goes for Korea, China, India, etc. etc.

But my ethnic homeland is being radically changed. And ethnic Americans have nowhere else in the world to go.

Immigrants expect us to passively accept being overwhelmed by other ethnic groups, while theirs remain safe and sound in their native lands.

Now Dee, how is that fair?

George said...

Patriot, I can see your point. I really can. It does make sense, and even if there's a forgotten ID or a misunderstanding, a few hours of police work and inconvenience should clear things up just fine. This has actually happened on more than one occasion to innocent Arizona citizens - handcuffs came off, a firm handshake, and they go home. The issue I have is that this is not what America is all about. We're the leader of the free world built on the fundamental ideals of life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. We're a country of immigrants unless of course you happen to be a native American Indian. The real fear is that our basic civil rights get violated every time a state or federal agency advocates policies favoring saturation raids, racial profiling, and things of this sort. Every time I have to pull out my ID because of the color of my skin, someone is stepping on the US Constitution. Someone like me, a legal American, should not be subject to the shotgun effect of saturation raids. I am not ethnic collateral damage. I am a proud American - have been and will always be.

Liquidmicro said...

Lets clarify, due to the crime suppression checkpoints, it has helped to decrease the amount of crime. It is not the sole reason why crime has dropped, but just one of many tools used by law enforcement to suppress and curtail crime throughout an area.

To equate this to Nazi Germany is obtuse to say the least.

Liquidmicro said...

Thats just it George, you are pulling out your ID because you have been detained for a violation, i.e. vehicle code, jay walking, etc. They can not just stop you without having probable cause. You are not pulling out your ID due to your skin color. This reverts back to Guadalupe with 72% Hispanic/Latino population. It is an ethnic majority in a community, how can officers then due their jobs without the implications of those that yell Racial Profiling? Must there only be Hispanic officers in those areas? If other ethnic officers where to pull someone over, would that then be construed to be Racial Profiling?

Liquidmicro said...

George said...

Patriot, I can see your point. I really can. It does make sense, and even if there's a forgotten ID or a misunderstanding, a few hours of police work and inconvenience should clear things up just fine. This has actually happened on more than one occasion to innocent Arizona citizens - handcuffs came off, a firm handshake, and they go home. The issue I have is that this is not what America is all about.


Your right George, thats not what the USA is about, however, due to having laws and rules there are always unintended consequences. It is a mere inconvenience to have to deal with. It will probably ruin someones day, but you move on.


A police officer, or a person authorized by a jurisdiction's police powers act, may arrest anyone whom the officer has reasonable and probable cause to believe has committed any criminal offence. However, in the case of a misdemeanor, summary conviction offence, or non-criminal offence (such as a municipal by-law offence) the officer may arrest the suspect only long enough to identify the suspect and give the suspect a summons to appear in court, unless there is reason to believe he or she will not appear in answer to the summons.

In the United States and other jurisdictions, police officers and other government officials are shielded from false arrest lawsuits through a process known as qualified immunity. This doctrine protects such officials from liability when engaged in discretionary actions such as arrests of suspects. However, the officer's actions must still not violate "clearly established law," or this protection is void. This includes executing an arrest warrant against the wrong person.

Dee said...

Well guess what Liquid.
I hear the Sheriff is coming out to your neck of the woods.
He has been watching the "Catch a Predator" shows. He has decided to Racial Profile middle aged White Males. After all, it is the Middle Aged white male that is the primary "predator." The cops will deluge your suburbs for the next 12 months. They will stop your children´s Confirmation Mass, as they did in Guadalupe for their suppression sweeps. They will target all men your age and up, stop you. Watch out of your for tail lights out or if the little light over plate is out. If they find out you have been using the internet late at night, watch out. They will confiscate your hard drive. They can keep you up to 72 hours.

Dee said...

Hran,
You are bordering on silly.
My family has been here over 200 years. My Native American side has been here decades longer. African Americans have been here hundreds of years. So have Asians. We are a multi cultural society.
You cannot say this country is comprised of White Nationals only. And you cannot expect all of us Citizens of other than white ethnicities will ever leave our country.
That is silly.

Liquidmicro said...

Borrowed from Metaldoc:

"I am a middle aged white man and I wont even take my OWN son to the park for fear that someone will think I kidnapped him. The single most persecuted "minority" group in todays age IS the middle aged white man. We are not allowed to even MENTION race, we cannot be within 50 feet of any children whatsoever, and god-forbid we ask our government to enforce it's laws, we are suddenly anti-immigrant."


That pretty much sums up your argument. Now, tell me again what I am suppose to be afraid of? Nothing but a mere inconvenience!

Dee said...

The so called crimes the sheriff is arresting for are primarily minor infractions. The local police nor the mayors want him to conduct these sweeps or harass the Latino citizens.

Carl Mangine, a Scottsdale resident said,

"I don't buy the argument that Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is only enforcing our laws in his recent "sweeps" through certain parts of the metro area.

Yes, he may be enforcing the laws, but it is blatantly a selective enforcement. All the sweeps so far have been in lower-income neighborhoods that are predominantly Hispanic.

Why haven't we seen any of his squads sweeping Scottsdale Fashion Square or Kierland Commons? I'm sure he can find many minor law infractions in these areas also.

But that would involve arresting wealthy non-Hispanics. We certainly can't do that."

Dee said...

Phoenix, Mayor Phil Gordon said Arpaio should be concentrating on more pressing duties such as finding people with warrants against them, and he has asked for a federal civil rights investigation, complaining the sheriff is singling out people who are "driving with a broken taillight or have brown skin."

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Scottsdale already covered above, their Local Police officers are 287(g) certified, and their Police Chief Rodbell said Arpaio is within his jurisdiction to conduct the raids, but that Scottsdale takes a DIFFERENT approach."

Scottsdale's Police Chief Rodbell agrees with my side/interpretation. Only their tactics are different.

Liquidmicro said...

Arpaio has stated what his intentions are, this was discussed earlier as well. At least Dee, come up with some new info instead of repeating the same, already discussed info. Answer questions that have been put out there, give your opinion. The same thing over and over gets nauseating.

Dee said...

The Arizona Republic reports:
"Arpaio has identified more than 18,000 illegal immigrants. The vast majority, about 15,600, has been as a result of checking the immigration status of those booked or incarcerated at the jails.

Only 103 have been netted through the immigration sweeps.

In other words, the sweeps are the least effective and productive thing Arpaio is doing about illegal immigration. They have produced only about one-half of 1 percent of those apprehended.

Directly put, such sweeps are immaterial to a successful attrition strategy on illegal immigration. In fact, they are explicitly disavowed in the national debate."

Dee said...

Arizona Republic (pt 2)

"Defenders of the sweeps often draw analogies to DUI checkpoints and other intense crime-suppression efforts, such as prostitution crackdowns.

The DUI-checkpoint analogy is the most easily dismissed. The whole point of a checkpoint is its universality. Everyone is stopped. No one is put at greater risk of being stopped because of ethnicity.

The crime-suppression analogy requires a more intricate distinction. Law enforcement often does increase its presence in high crime areas and sometimes steps up enforcement of minor offenses. But this is done to help restore civil order, not as an investigatory pretext.

Arpaio has conducted four sweeps. Two of them occurred near areas in which problems with congregating day laborers had arisen. A third was done by the Sheriff's Office's human-smuggling unit along a high traffic route for smuggling.

The Guadalupe sweep STANDS OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB. In that case, Arpaio moved massively into a POOR LATINO AREA to vigorously enforce traffic laws as an OBVIOUS PRETEXT for catching illegal immigrants. He DISTURBED THE CIVIL ORDER rather than restored it.

The most distressing reaction was the claim that Latinos who are here legally have nothing to fear from the sweeps and, thus, no reason to complain. Have we really drifted so far from our patrimony to believe that only lawbreakers have reason to fear unwarranted attention from government and that the innocent should take no offense at such attention? Surely not.

THERE ARE EFFECTIVE WAYS TO REDUCE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WITHOUT SUBJECTING LAWFUL LATINOS TO UNWARRANTED LAW-ENFORCEMENT SCRUTINY. Arpaio himself has proved it."

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

The Arizona Republic reports:
"Arpaio has identified more than 18,000 illegal immigrants. The vast majority, about 15,600, has been as a result of checking the immigration status of those booked or incarcerated at the jails.



WOW, 15,600 incarcerated Hispanics, thats about 1/3 of the Hispanic population of the Phoenix area. Would that mean, since you like stats, that 1 in 3 Hispanics in Phoenix is a criminal?

103 Caught in sweeps, there have been only 3 sweeps, 34% per sweep, decent numbers, no? Or since the "sweeps last usually 2 days, that would mean 17 caught per day, still not bad, no?

Dee said...

The Truth Hurts doesn´t it Liquid.

The facts are, the Sheriff was blatantly wrong when he conducted those sweeps, especially in Guadalupe. We have the pictures of he and his men disrupting the children´s Confirmation Mass.

People are afraid. Citizens are afraid. Children are afraid.

Doesn´t that bother you?

Do you know how I met George Velez, the veteran who wrote this letter to the Governor? He is in a class and his Professor asked him to write about something he truly cared about and to put it in a blog. I was fortunate enough to read his letter within hours of him posting it.

The number one issue of this dedicated American Veteran was to write a letter to his Governor because he FEARS for his FAMILY being caught up in one of Arpaio´s sweeps. A Veteran´s number one issue.

We LIVE in America Liquid.
It shouldn´t be this way!

Doesn´t this bother you?

Don´t you care?

Liquidmicro said...

George said...

Patriot, I can see your point. I really can. It does make sense, and even if there's a forgotten ID or a misunderstanding, a few hours of police work and inconvenience should clear things up just fine. This has actually happened on more than one occasion to innocent Arizona citizens - handcuffs came off, a firm handshake, and they go home. The issue I have is that this is not what America is all about.


Liquid said:

Your right George, thats not what the USA is about, however, due to having laws and rules there are always unintended consequences. It is a mere inconvenience to have to deal with. It will probably ruin someones day, but you move on.

Dee said...

Liquid,
The sheriff is sheriff of the COUNTY not just Phoenix.
Also, as I earlier reported, DPS statistics prove Arizona has a history of Racial Profiling.

Liquidmicro said...

Now, exactly what truth is it that hurts? George has a right to feel the way he does, as it is he who has to deal with his feelings, it is his right. I don't feel the same as George, that is my right. I don't blame George for feeling the way he does, I applaud him for standing up and addressing his concerns. In here he has been very cordial and articulate in his expressions, for that I respect him.

But for you to keep pointing fingers and aggravating further a discussion that has been cordial is what I find, for lack of a better word, insulting. Your accusations of FACTS, your constant repeating of the same over and over, you get the picture.


You give the impression with the trigger word "sweeps" that the MCSO are marching down the streets and questioning each individual they encounter, you further promote fear when all that is happening is: "The 150 people arrested were approached or pulled over in traffic stops because deputies had probable cause to believe they had committed crimes. It was only afterward that deputies found nearly half were illegal immigrants, the sheriff said."

Liquidmicro said...

Yes Dee he is the Sheriff of the county, that does not give him jurisdiction in the city's, for that he must be contracted for his services. Look to Guadalupe and their decision to not employ MCSO at the end of the contract. Services are coming up. But you should already know all of this, right?

patriot said...

George, we are no longer a nation of immigrants. We are a nation of Americans now by several generations.

From what I understand people aren't being questioned because of the color of their skin but because of a traffic violation, etc. So there is probably cause and no violation of anyone's civil rights.

This has netted many criminals and illegal aliens. Don't you want that for your country?

Thank you for at least admitting that Hispanic citizens have nothing to fear contrary to dee's rantings.

Hran said...

Dee;

RE:

"My family has been here over 200 years. My Native American side has been here decades longer."

Where? Texas? New Mexico? I realize there are old Hispanic families in the Southwest, but these are a minuscule percentage of population of the US.

"African Americans have been here hundreds of years."

Yes, I said before they are black Americans. As with my ethnic group, there is no
other country in the world where they can be found. They are %12.8 of of the US population. This is around the traditional percentage.

"So have Asians."

No. There is no comparison between Asians and the descendants of former slaves. Again, the Asians that came to work on the railroads, etc. were a minuscule part of the population. Furthermore, there were virtually NO Asians in original 13 colonies. Or Hispanics, for that matter.

"We are a multi cultural society."

That is a silly conclusion. Because traditionally minuscule populations of Hispanics, even less of Asian, and a traditional population of 15% black former slaves, you conclude that America is essentially multicultural. This is obviously false. America is DEFINED by the large majority white Americans. This has been the case since colonial times.

"You cannot say this country is comprised of White Nationals only."

I didn't say it was. I live in LA: believe me, I know it's not. That's not even the point. The point is, the PERCENTAGE of ethnic Americans (white Americans) has dropped to 66.4% from its traditional level. This process is accelerating because of massive illegal and legal immigration since 1965, and in the last 20 years in particular.

"And you cannot expect all of us Citizens of other than white ethnicities will ever leave our country."

That is the conundrum that I spoke of.

In conclusion, you did not address my point. Why do I have to accept that my ethnic group (the one that DEFINES America) has dropped 20% in the last 40 years or so? In another 40 years we will be less than 50% of the population. You cannot sit there an tell me that will be traditional America.

George said...

Patriot. Nothing to fear isn't exactly what I said - definitely not what I intended. It's goes a lot deeper than just fear of arrest. We're all grown adults here, and part of the reason I'm attracted to Dee's forum is that both sides of this debate are educated and highly opinionated. I think deep down we all know why Arpaio is choosing heavily ethnic areas to run his raids. You can justify pulling over someone under the guise of a cracked windshield, maybe pull over a few token other races, and claim probable cause. But, the reality is Arpaio is choosing a very public forum with suspect motivations to push forth the anti agenda. I don't think anyone here or anywhere honestly thinks this level of police work is justified on busting someone with a cracked windshield (this happened by the way). One of my professors once said that you find something new every time you read the Constitution. It's magnificently brilliant - which I am sure most on here will agree. It lays the foundation of a forward thinking society while providing a method for change. Colonial America has evolved - like it or not. Waves of immigrants have made this country what it is - the leader of the free world and a bastion of democracy. There's no room in the Constitution for racism, prejudice, or hate. What people do in blogs or in their home is their business. It is when it infringes on the basic rights of Americans - racial profiling - using government/state resources that the true problem surfaces. And, that we should all fear.

George said...

Hran. Quick question, and I mean absolutely no disrespect. My parents legally immigrated here and received citizenship in 1962 and 1963, and I was born in a US Army hospital in Virginia. By your definition (after 1965), am I considered an American?

Dee said...

George,
Agreed!


George´s statement:
I think deep down we all know why Arpaio is choosing heavily ethnic areas to run his raids. You can justify pulling over someone under the guise of a cracked windshield, maybe pull over a few token other races, and claim probable cause. But, the reality is Arpaio is choosing a very public forum with suspect motivations to push forth the anti agenda.

Dee said...

George,
Agreed (2)!


George´s statement:
There's no room in the Constitution for racism, prejudice, or hate. What people do in blogs or in their home is their business. It is when it INFRINGES ON THE BASIC RIGHTS of AMREICANS - RACIAL PROFILING - using GOVERNMENT/STATE RESOURCES that the TRUE PROBLEM surfaces. And, that WE should ALL FEAR!

Anon 1 said...

Thank You George very much for posting here, it nice to see a defender of the ppl post, a true PRO, I get tired of reading all the bashing towards ppl that aren't "the chosen ones"

patriot said...

No one is denying that Sheriff Joe has a distaste for illegal aliens or that he isn't seeking them out. But what is wrong with that? Since Hispanics make up the majority of illegals who do you think he should question or seek out....little green men from Mars?

Dee said...

Hran,
My family originates from south east Texas. My father´s great grandfather received a land grant in the early 1800s and our family has been here ever since. My mother has Native American roots and her ancestors have been here for centuries. Many families across the SouthWest are like mine.
The descendants of my great grandfather alone number in the thousands. His children had children. My parents, for example, had 10 children and their descendants number over three hundred so far. All US citizens. Most in business or in military.
So you see, we have been here much longer than your ancestors and probably welcomed them here when they arrived.

Hran´s question:
"My family has been here over 200 years. My Native American side has been here decades longer."
Where? Texas? New Mexico? I realize there are old Hispanic families in the Southwest, but these are a minuscule percentage of population of the US.

Dee said...

Pat,
At least YOU are agreeing the Sheriff is Racial Profiling.


Pats Statement:
No one is denying that Sheriff Joe has a distaste for illegal aliens or that he isn't seeking them out. But what is wrong with that? Since Hispanics make up the majority of illegals who do you think he should question or seek out....little green men from Mars?

Anonymous said...

dee said

"My mother has Native American roots and her ancestors have been here for centuries."

dee, if your mother's ancestors have been here for centuries, how is it that she never learned English?

Dee said...

Anon,
As many people in the SW, particularly in the early part of last century, she spoke English and Spanish. As I said in the 1st chapter of my book, Spanglish.

Dee said...

Hran,
Given Latinos from the SW and across the nation are native citizens of our Great USA, I guess your WN plan to repatriate Latinos to some other country will not work. We are already here, where we are native citizens, for centuries.

Anonymous said...

You have said so many times on matt.org that your mother did not speak English. Now you say she did.

Dee said...

Quote from Rep. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, said of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's sweeps: "That is not what this country is about. We are not about targeting individuals because of the color of their skin, their religion or their gender."

Liquidmicro said...

"I think deep down we all know why Arpaio is choosing heavily ethnic areas to run his raids."


I think it is being discounted that Arpaio may ONLY have these areas to enforce. The smaller towns and cities within the major metropolitan area do not have local police departments, they must contract out these services, while the larger areas mostly already have 287(g) certification, these smaller areas do not. Thus MCSO contracts with these smaller towns and cities within his jurisdiction are all that are left for him to patrol.

I eluded earlier that the press articles use a lot of "trigger" words, i.e. "sweeps", "blanketing", "canvassing", "racial profiling", "raids", etc. These trigger words instill fear into society, invoke a type of wanted sympathy for a group of people, and frames the debate as hatred, while trying to extract sympathy for those in violation of our laws.

As far as the PRO's are concerned only the sheriff is being provocative by enforcing the law but those actually breaking the law are not doing anything wrong. "Illegal Immigrants" are portrayed as innocents and victims, and Legal Citizens are being mixed in with the bunch. This falls back to the PRO's obscuring "Illegal Immigrants" as "Immigrants" with no separation. Citizens and "Legal Residents" have nothing to fear, as stated by George earlier: "Patriot, I can see your point. I really can. It does make sense, and even if there's a forgotten ID or a misunderstanding, a few hours of police work and inconvenience should clear things up just fine. This has actually happened on more than one occasion to innocent Arizona citizens - handcuffs came off, a firm handshake, and they go home."

Instead of listening to these "trigger" words, how about removing them all together to get a clear picture and true outlook of the problem.

Liquidmicro said...

Highway Patrol answers complaints of profiling in Richmond

"I would like to know your criteria for stopping people," Adolfo Porras said at the meeting Wednesday, "because I have seen you stop people for no reason."

During 26 days of work in Richmond since early February, CHP officers gave 2,165 tickets and towed 565 cars. A random sample of about one-third of those citations showed that 23rd Street — a part of Richmond strongly identified with its Latino community — accounted for far fewer tickets than either south Richmond or the Iron Triangle neighborhood.

But many residents remain skeptical, offering anecdotes of motorists stopped for no reason they could discern, or stopped repeatedly over a short period of time.

Ana Ore said she's also heard complaints of unequal treatment when the CHP tows cars: Some remain impounded far longer than others, purportedly a function of the driver's immigration status.

Morrell said the Highway Patrol plays no role in immigration enforcement and doesn't even know which of the motorists stopped were undocumented. Longer, 30-day impounds do go to repeat offenders caught driving without a license, he added.

But the CHP often seems too interested in drivers unlikely to be involved in street crime, some argue. And while 23rd Street tickets account for a small proportion of the CHP's total, the 346 in three months is far more than what locals are used to from city police.

"I understand there are a lot of problems in Richmond, but ... it's hard for families," Ore said. "It's hard when you stop a lady with groceries in her car. You take away her car, and now her groceries are all in the street."

Liquidmicro said...

The Highway Patrol began working in Richmond at the request of city police. City Council members, particularly John Marquez, pushed hard for the outside help after 13 homicides in December.

CHP officers help to reduce crime primarily through traffic enforcement, Morrell said. They stop as many cars as they legally can. Traffic stops in high-crime areas often yield guns, drugs and suspects with arrest warrants.

Marquez, a champion of Latino interests in city politics, now finds himself in a complex situation, stuck between his support for the Highway Patrol's crime-fighting efforts and the misgivings of his primary constituency.

"Thank you for coming here today," Marquez said to the CHP representatives at Wednesday's meeting. "It's important for people to have this information, so that when something happens, they have an understanding of why it happens."


Is this pretty much not the same thing happening in AZ? Or is there going to be the assumption that this too is racial profiling?

Liquidmicro said...

Also notice that there are no "TRIGGER" words used in the article, you get a much clearer perception of what is actually happening.

Dee said...

Liquid,

It isn’t just the media who are talking about the Sheriff this way and the locals, but all the local Mayors and the Chiefs of Police.

The Mayor of Guadalupe asked Arpaio to step back BEFORE he Came in.

I don’t know what rough neck of the woods you come from but handcuffs and a trip to jail, even through a misunderstanding, scares the heck out of me and most people. Most Americans will say “Don’t Racial Profile Me because profiling is Wrong!”

The only way I will ever stop reporting about the sheriff´s actions is when he stops them once and for all or when he is removed from office and the only harm he can do is to his own ego.

Dee said...

Anon,
There and here I have always said the same about my mom and my family. I wrote it the same way in my book. Go to the link. Read it yourself.

Dee said...

I often wondered why the Sheriff is so media and attention hungry. As George and others have said, the sheriff frequently calls these raids just in time for the 6 o clock news. I read his bio in wiki. His young childhood answers a lot of these questions:

"Joe Arpaio was the child of immigrants from Naples, Italy. His mother died during his childbirth (1932) and his father had LITTLE INTEREST in raising young Joe. As a result, Arpaio spent his childhood being shuffled back and forth between different families, depending on who was able to care for him.

Arpaio enlisted in the United States Army and served from 1950 to 1953.

Following his discharge from the Army, he moved to Washington, D.C. and then to Las Vegas, Nevada, serving on the police force of both cities over a five-year period...

After his stints with the local police forces of Washington and Las Vegas, Arpaio obtained a job as a Special Agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration. He worked for the DEA for 32 years, earning the nickname "Nicklebag Joe" for his frequent SMALL-TIME arrests. During that time, he was stationed in both Turkey and Mexico, and advanced to the position of head of the DEA's Arizona branch. He served in this position for four years before retiring."

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,

It isn’t just the media who are talking about the Sheriff this way and the locals, but all the local Mayors and the Chiefs of Police.



I've already shown that not "all" Police Chiefs agree with you, Rodbell certainly doesn't. I have also shown that City counselors do not agree with you. There are only a few Mayors that agree with you.

"But, even as the sheriff's actions are proven legal and professional, he is accused of "grandstanding," "racial profiling," and ignoring the elected officials of the towns in which his sweeps have occurred. The articles also reminds us that the sheriff's "raids" are occurring "on heavily Hispanic sections." This "heavily Hispanic" line is thrown into the story as if looking for illegals in "heavily Hispanic" areas is somehow a racist action. Of course, logic would make one ask where else would one look for illegals if not in the areas in which they congregate?

Then we get the Hispanic pandering, public officials attacking the sheriff.

"I was upset. We did not request them here," said Guadalupe Mayor Rebecca Jimenez, who charged that the patrols were meant to raise Arpaio's profile for his re-election campaign this year.

So, this mayor is allowed to charge Arpaio of grandstanding merely for campaign purposes, yet the question is never asked of her why so many illegals were found in her town in the first place? Why is she looking the other way as her town fills with illegal aliens?

Then we get the whining from Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon.

As for Phoenix, Mayor Phil Gordon said Arpaio should be concentrating on more pressing duties such as finding people with warrants against them, and he has asked for a federal civil rights investigation, complaining the sheriff is singling out people who are "driving with a broken taillight or have brown skin." The U.S. Justice Department refused to comment.

This panderer is given space to say that Arpaio is illicitly employing racial profiling even as no proof was offered that Arpaio has pulled people over merely for having "brown skin." While it's quite a charge, the PRO's offer no real proof to substantiate the bald politically charged claim made by Mayor Gordon."

Handcuffs and a trip to jail only come if you give reason for it. Still you do not actually know your rights and what rights the police must abide, yet you claim rights for all, documented or not. i suggest you learn your rights as a citizen before you advocate rights for everybody, including the undocumented. Ignorance of your rights or of the law is no excuse.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I do find it amazing that you totally discount what the Mayors of Guadalupe and Phoenix are saying or the Chief of Police of Mesa. Instead, the only people you feel are credible are the ANTI politicians grandstanding for thier next elected position.
All very curious of you Liquid!

Liquidmicro said...

Now, you are trying to say he is lacking attention!!! due to his childhood!!!! I don't see your credentials as an phsycologist. You are stereotyping here, yet claim profiling there. How hypocrytical of you!!

Liquidmicro said...

The same could be said of your grandstanding and Hispandering politicians. Quite the conundrum, no?

Dee said...

After reading his childhood, I almost feel sorry for him. He was just tossed around and finally found some type of recognition as a small time cop arresting small time criminals.

Poor Nickle-Bag!

The only way he found recognition, attention, power and glory was by arresting and stepping on the throats of the small time, powerless people.

Sad!

April 26, 2008 12:11 PM

Anon 1 said...

(playing tiniest violin) poor nickel-bag, no one hugged him as a child, his parents (who abandoned him) were both immigrants so he must get even with all the ILLEEEEEEGALS, "your under arrest brown person!!" It's no wonder he racial profiles like he does, I like how liquid can't put 2 + 2 together with anything, like most ANTI's who only see their point of view, you don't see how this has an impact on his arresting habits, and YOU claim DEE's hypocritical, how very telling of you, very transparent

Dee said...

The East Valley Tribune has just published the following. Liquid, this is ALL Religious Leaders in the area saying this:

While this column is typically the voice of a single pastor, I write today on behalf of TEAM, the Tempe Emergency Assistance Ministry, an interfaith organization of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim communities. As faith leaders in our city, we are greatly troubled by what we see happening in the East Valley as a result of the "crime sweeps" by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the sheriff's office.

While we understand that the sheriff might have the legal authority to pursue his present policy, we do not believe that he has the moral authority, and we call upon him to cease his immoral operations.

We are troubled, for his department is clearly using racial profiling in its crime sweeps. We are troubled, for his policy is creating an environment of fear and intimidation among Latinos in our community, legal and illegal. We are troubled that this policy is dehumanizing of individuals and groups of individuals in our community. We are troubled, for his policy is causing fear of all law enforcement officials in the Latino community, scaring people from calling the police when they may be victims of real crimes. We are troubled, for this policy seems to be leading to an increase of gang activity in neighborhoods where individuals are afraid to call the police to report such crimes. We are troubled, for this policy is working to increase racism in our community and to diminish the quality of civil discourse.

Dee said...

part 2 from the Pastors:

We call upon all our citizens to stand up for morality, for a reasoned, respectful debate on our immigration problem without fear or intimidation, a debate in which the "stranger" will not be oppressed.

We invite and challenge the faith community to respond with us to this urgent concern.

Together we represent a variety of congregations and a desire to speak for many whose voice may not be heard. Say no to the sheriff's troublesome approach. If you share this concern, speak to your pastor or spiritual leader and your county supervisor. For information on congregations associated with TEAM, see tempefirstumc.org or emanueloftempe.org.

Dee said...

George, this may be a good forum for you and your wife to attend.

Liquidmicro said...

Anon1 your attempt at a post with intelligence still alludes you. Arpaios mother died during child birth, hell, you can't even get given information correct. What makes you think that you can think without Dee's guidance? I notice how you couldn't add the 2+2 to come up with an answer, how ignorant of you.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You are straying from the debate. No name calling.
Let´s stick to the issues.
What do you say about what ministers are saying?
I think they are heroic, especially teaming together to deliver this message.
Obviously many people fear Arpaio.

Hran said...

George:

You and Dee are good test cases for any immigration restrictionist political agenda. And this discussion is good in that it makes me think about many aspects of my own ideas.

I didn't catch where your parents are from. But, especially if you speak Spanish, you could return to a country that is full of people like you in many ways. It is the country of your ancestors. Your parents come directly from the home country. I presume they speak Spanish and are much closer to the culture of the home country.

Contrast that to me. In terms of ancestry, I am not from any one country in Europe. Branches of my family came over in colonial times (in the 1700s). They were not confined to any region, like the SW, but have lived in many different states, mainly in the south. There is no living memory in my family of having lived in Europe or any other foreign country. My ancestors fought on both sides of the Civil War. They were around during the Revolutionary war. I speak perfect American English with no foreign accent. And so on.

I cannot go to any other country in the world and be amongst people like me. America is it.

Your question is somewhat misleading, though. You are legally American and I assume you speak perfect English; and you are successful and completely integrated into American society. So, generally speaking, you are American.

But you are not ethnically American. You are not of the traditional ethnic composition of America.

White, black, and the few Native American tribal people make up that composition. People like me and my ancestors define it. Now that traditional ethnic composition is being radically altered. Don't you agree?

Liquidmicro said...

Show me were I called him a name?

Criticism is not name calling, and his ignorance is no excuse.

I note the pastors are also using these trigger words in there posting. Typical for attempting sympathy. Your side can not argue successfully without using trigger words to justify there positions.

Hran said...

Dee,

Since you're ancestors have lived in Texas since the 1800s, and it sounds like you have considerable Native American blood from a North American tribe, then your rightful place is in Texas.

But despite the fecundity of our family, people like you are a very small part of the population of the US. And that population is confined to a particular region.

But here is the key point: Notice how you advocate strongly FOR YOUR OWN KIND. And given enough people with your ideas, America will be completely transformed in the next 50 years through immigration.

dianne said...

Anon way above: No, the cops don't do anything to the employers, and apparently not even the identity thieves. I've had some really good e-mail exchanges with my state legislators over this issue since this incident occurred. They are scheduled to go back to the legislature next week to finish debating and passing (or not) new immigration laws. One of my legislators is pro-business. The other is pro-ordinary Joe Citizen. The Chamber of Commerce and other big business groups don't want to be responsible for ANYTHING. They want cheap labor. They WANT to exploit illegal immigrants and they don't give a rat's ass about anything other than their profits.

The illegal immigrants themselves don't care that they're stealing some citizen's identity and they don't care if they're ruining that person's credit, etc. What a lot of them believe is that they bought the identity, and that's all that matters.

And, all I hear is racial profiling. Hey, what about the citizen victims in this country? Anybody give a damn about them. If anybody read the article I supplied, you'd see that a citizen ended up in jail for a crime that an illegal immigrant did that had stolen his identity. RACIAL PROFILING ANYBODY?

Dee said...

Liquid,
Maybe going back to George´s original heartfelt words will help you understand the impact to the Latino Community to what we see as Racial Profiling:
"Namely the actions of Joe Arpaio’s saturation raids are forcing me to examine if living in Arizona might deter my family’s pursuit of happiness. Because of my Hispanic heritage, I have a fear that my kids, my brother, or I might get caught up in Arpaio’s dragnet. I find myself ensuring our vehicles are washed and clean at all times. I intentionally avoid any potentially ethnic areas of the city, and I am constantly preaching to my family to make sure they don’t forget to bring any ID cards along– just in case.
Having to live like this with the threat of getting racially profiled by officers of the law distresses me. I don’t mind complying with the law. In fact, my best friend from my military days in Georgia moved to Arizona in the early 90’s and presently is an officer in MCSO. I just don’t want my kids exposed to this sort of racism. The ends do not justify the means - especially to innocent, law abiding Arizona citizens."

Dee said...

Regarding the Ministers words: They are using words that are true to them. They are sharing their concerns.

You may not like them but they are the truth from their perspective. They are living it!

Liquidmicro said...

Why don't you go back to what I already stated of George.

"George has a right to feel the way he does, as it is he who has to deal with his feelings, it is his right. I don't feel the same as George, that is my right. I don't blame George for feeling the way he does, I applaud him for standing up and addressing his concerns. In here he has been very cordial and articulate in his expressions, for that I respect him."

It's already been covered. As for the pastors of the church, they are showing "compassion", albeit biased, but there form of compassion none the less. I do not agree with them, and do not approve of the use of "trigger" words in order to try to gain sympathy, to me they are mere liars and hypocrites.

Liquidmicro said...

"I just don’t want my kids exposed to this sort of racism. The ends do not justify the means - especially to innocent, law abiding Arizona citizens."

Thats just it, if you give no reason to be detained then you have nothing to fear. Lose the trigger words and you lose your fears, know your rights, know the officers rights, there is no fear.

Dee said...

Hran,
We have always been here. Texas and the Southwest are culturally Southwestern. Each section of the USA has its own cultural footprint. In New Orleans its Cajun. In the SouthEast, its Southern Charm, etc etc. We have been and continue to be multi cultural in our great USA. We are a land of Immigrants.

Hran, I do appreciate your civility and sharing the "immigration restrictionist political agenda" with us. I don´t see how you resolve your own issues because people like me and George are not going anywhere. We are Americans.

And as for my family and the original 3% Latino population in the US, we have grown to 15 - 20% of the population. As I said, my great grandparents were 2 people. From them, thousands of US citizens have evolved. We are in business, the military, and we are living all across the US. We are thriving in our multi cultural society and we are not going anywhere.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Your use of the words "liars" and "hypocrites" or "hispandering" are TRIGGER WORDS to me.

Anon 1 said...

lol, I just love liquids responces, I think from now on I'll call him THE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE (sarcasm)

patriot said...

Sheriff Joe isn't targeting anyone by the color of their skin, religion or gender. Mexican/Hispanc isn't a skin color, religion or just one gender.

Dee said...

Pat,
Brown is.
That is why Arpaio is also ringing in so many Native Americans!
Look at the books!

patriot said...

I think that liquid has pretty much dispelled your racial profiling nonsense, dee. But keep ranting on anyway. We know you will. As an American you should be glad that the end results of the Sheriff's enforcement has netted many criminals and illegals. I guess that makes no difference to you ethnocentrics though. You put you and yours above the laws. Shame that we have Americans like that.

Dee said...

Pat,
You and Liquid may think but not most of the rest of America!

patriot said...

Oh, you speak for the rest of Americans, dee? You pro's are so funny thinking that most of America thinks like you ethnocentrics do, lol.

Dee said...

Pat, Perhaps you should change your name to Parrot. You often parrot the terms used by the ANTI bloggers. Terms like Ethnocentric. If you read the definition, you fall more in line with the definition than I do. I believe in multi culturalism. You want all of our USA to change to White, Northern European culture and customs.

patriot said...

I am a parrot? lol! No one in this blog repeats themselves over and over and talks about the same people over and over in here like you do. How many times have you stated what kind of CIR you are for....a hundred times maybe? How many articles is it now about Sheriff Joe....ten?

No I am not an ethnocentric because I don't put my ethnicity above this country's laws. That fits you to a tee.

Stop lying, dee. I have never advocated an all White country. I only want it to REMAIN a majority White country culturally which is what it has always been. I don't want it changed to a Hispanic country like you do. Multi-cultural my a@@! You want Hispanics to become the majority in this country and you know it! How many country's do you people need to become dominant in?

Nelson said...

"I have never advocated an all White country. I only want it to REMAIN a majority White country culturally which is what it has always been. I don't want it changed to a Hispanic country like you do. Multi-cultural my a@@! You want Hispanics to become the majority in this country and you know it!"

Hell, I'm white, and I'd much rather have a Hispanic majority than a majority of white supremacists like yourself. Slavery aside, this country was founded on the principles of individual freedom and rights. Not on the tyranny of the majority suppressing the minority. The immigration quotas should be repealed. Freedom of movement is a basic right.

The laws prohibiting willful employers and employees from working together legally are evil and speak to the nature of fear destroying freedom. Mexicans are people. If some want to work here and someone here is willing to hire them, no harm done. It's just freedom at work.

Just because we have bad laws and government taking away our freedom doesn't make it right.

Anon 1 said...

thank you very much Nelson for posting, I hold the same beliefs as you and I am also white, ppl are ppl whether the ANTI's like it or not, they can racial profile all they want, ANTI's will never change the foundation of this country which is just as you describe, and thank GOD for that, can you imagine living in one giant MAYBERRY

patriot said...

Nelson, so I am a white supremist by wanting this country to remain as is and has been since it's founding? How so? By your reasoning then all 22 Latin American countries are made up of brown supremists because they want to retain their Hispanic dominance in their countries. Or is this another one of those double standards for whites only?

If you would rather live around Hispanics I suggest you move to one of their 22 countries then and leave ours alone. While you are there tell them that "freedom of movement is a basic right" so that they will allow millions of Chinese, Anglos, Italians, etc. to migrate at will into their countries without papers, will you? And make sure you tell them they may have to change their official langauges from Spanish to Chinese and celebrate the Chinese New Year and forget Cindo de Mayo, ok? No more burritos, just fried rice and eggrolls, ok? I am sure they won't mind giving up their native culture and langauge.

You definately don't belong in this country with your views that no one in this country should beholding to any laws including employers. Bye, bye don't let the door hit you in the behind. We don't need anti-American traitors in this country like you.

patriot said...

anon1, I can't imagine living in big giant barrio either. If I wanted to I would move to a Hispanic country. We have had a dominant Mayberry society since it's founding if you don't like it, move south.

anon 1 said...

pay no attention to the racist ranting that the ANTI's display Nelson, they sing the same song over and over, kind of like a parrot, I know it's pathetic but don't let it get to you, kind of makes you sick to be a white American that this kind of hatred is very common, they'll even have the nerve to calls you un-American, a traitor, these are their true feelings but thank god through generations there are less and less racists, bigots, and more ppl accepting that this country is multi-cultural

patriot said...

anon1, I don't care if you are white. You are a seditionist traitor to this country. How dare you call law abiding Americans vile names that aren't true!

So the pros don't parrot the same BS over and over? Look for dee as a good example of that. Hypocrite!

We have a diversity of races in this country. That doesn't make our core culture multi-cultural. We have every bit a traditional culture in this country just as Latino countries do. If you don't want to live in a predominantly White country move south of the border then and leave us the hell alone!

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