Had this report not been in the "National Defense" news magazine I wouldn´t have believed it myself! The Department of Homeland Security is working with Sci-Fi writers to develop outlandish ideas to scare the Latino Community. Also, note in the article how they DO NOT distinguish between Latino and those they term Illegal Aliens. Notice all the negative economic assumptions then all the consultants worry about is whether they are labeled "politically correct." These are scare tactics against ALL LATINOS in a Dept of Homeland Security Conference! Read it for yourself. Filed under "Read it and Weep:"Science Fiction Mavens Offer Far Out Homeland Security Advice :
Now a fixture at Department of Homeland Security science and technology conferences, SIGMA is a loosely affiliated group of science fiction writers who are offering pro bono advice to anyone in government who want their thoughts on how to protect the nation. The group has the ear of Department of Homeland Security Undersecretary Jay Cohen, head of the science and technology directorate, who has said he likes their unconventional thinking. Members of the group recently offered a rambling, sometimes strident string of ideas at a panel discussion promoting the group at the DHS science and technology conference. Among the group’s approximately 24 members is Larry Niven, the bestselling and award-winning author of such books as “Ringworld” and “Lucifer’s Hammer,” which he co-wrote with SIGMA member Jerry Pournelle. Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial losses is to spread rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to harvest their organs for transplants. “The problem [of hospitals going broke] is hugely exaggerated by illegal aliens who aren’t going to pay for anything anyway,” Niven said. “Do you know how politically incorrect you are?” Pournelle asked.“I know it may not be possible to use this solution, but it does work,” Niven replied.
Now a fixture at Department of Homeland Security science and technology conferences, SIGMA is a loosely affiliated group of science fiction writers who are offering pro bono advice to anyone in government who want their thoughts on how to protect the nation. The group has the ear of Department of Homeland Security Undersecretary Jay Cohen, head of the science and technology directorate, who has said he likes their unconventional thinking. Members of the group recently offered a rambling, sometimes strident string of ideas at a panel discussion promoting the group at the DHS science and technology conference. Among the group’s approximately 24 members is Larry Niven, the bestselling and award-winning author of such books as “Ringworld” and “Lucifer’s Hammer,” which he co-wrote with SIGMA member Jerry Pournelle. Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial losses is to spread rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to harvest their organs for transplants. “The problem [of hospitals going broke] is hugely exaggerated by illegal aliens who aren’t going to pay for anything anyway,” Niven said. “Do you know how politically incorrect you are?” Pournelle asked.“I know it may not be possible to use this solution, but it does work,” Niven replied.
Posts
71 comments:
As usual your hyperbole and FACTS are fallacies. You always leave out the most telling information from an article.
"The 45-minute panel discussion quickly deteriorated as federal, local and state homeland security officials, and at least one congressional aid, attempted to ask questions, which were largely ignored."
It seems the questions weren't to the liking of the Sci-Fi Consultants. I highly doubt that DHS or any Governmental department will take their info and run with it. So, it seems, the only ones scaring the Hispanic population are its own kind.
"'Now a fixture at Department of Homeland Security science and technology conferences', SIGMA is a loosely affiliated group of science fiction writers who are offering pro bono advice to anyone in government who want their thoughts on how to protect the nation."
Also very telling. (rolling eyes)
Liquid,
Read the article. These Sci Fi goons are invited regulars at the Dept of Homeland Security conferences. They were on the agenda. DHS Cohen loves these guys and listens to them.
Read it and weep!
Liquid,
These wackos are fixtures at Department of Homeland Security science and technology conferences. They have the EAR of Cohen. Apparently this does not bother you. It does me!
Why do they invite them? Why are they fixtures? Why do they have Cohen´s ear? Why do they have such racist views? Using generalities? Is this how our government operates? Inviting Sci Fi writers to come up with ideas to solve real issues? Making these general assumptions? They are dangerous and scary ideas!!!
Is this how we got in Iraq?
Are you condoning all of this Liquid?
Horrible!!
They are not invited, they apply for and are accepted into the conference. They pay a fee to be in the conference. Your lack of comprehension, still befuttles the mind.
Cohen may like their outside the box thinking, but that does not mean they have DHS and are making Policy for them.
Again, they are not invited, they apply for the conference to set up their booth to put out their info. Your hyperbole and facts are still ignorance on your behalf.
Here is another article about DHS and this crazy SciFi group SIGMA. The government is paying these guys millions of dollars for their insanity!! What are they doing??
Article:
Sci-fi writers to save the world from terrorism
By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:23am BST 11/06/2007
Anti-terror chiefs in the United States have hired a team of America's most original sci-fi authors to dream up techniques to help them combat al-Qaeda. Ideas so far include mobile phones with chemical weapons detectors and brain scanners fitted to airport sniffer dogs, so that security staff can read their minds.
The writers have also put government scientists in touch with Hollywood special-effects experts, to work on better facial-recognition software to pick out terrorists at airports. The Department of Homeland Security has set aside around $10 million - one tenth of its research budget - for "high impact" projects dreamt up by the best brains in futuristic fiction...
Critics complain that the writers are handing the government potentially lethal ideas, comparing them to Robert Oppenheimer, who oversaw the creation of the atomic bomb.
Mr Pournelle counters: "I helped devise Star Wars, which helped win the Cold War. I'm glad we don't have 20,000 nuclear weapons pointing at each other now."
LARRY NIVEN, the author of Ringworld, said his motivation is "to save civilisation". "We do it in fiction. Why wouldn't we want to do it in fact?" he added.
A spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security said: "Fifty years ago, science fiction writers told us about flying cars and a wireless handheld communicator. Flying cars haven't evolved, but cell phones are now a way of life. We need to look everywhere for ideas, and science fiction writers clearly inform the debate."
Sorry Liquid! No matter how much you may wish it wasnt true, you are wrong! I wish it wasnt true too!
The fact that DHS would do this is INSANITY!!!
Another article: (USA Today)
Sci-fi writers join war on terror
Looking to prevent the next terrorist attack, the Homeland Security Department is tapping into the wild imaginations of a group of self-described "deviant" thinkers: science-fiction writers.
"We spend our entire careers living in the future," says author Arlan Andrews, one of a handful of writers the government brought to Washington this month to attend a Homeland Security conference on science and technology.
Those responsible for keeping the nation safe from devastating attacks realize that in addition to border agents, police and airport screeners, they "need people to think of crazy ideas," Andrews says.
The writers make up a group called Sigma, which Andrews put together 15 years ago to advise government officials. The last time the group gathered was in the late 1990s, when members met with government scientists to discuss what a post-nuclear age might look like, says group member Greg Bear. He has written 30 sci-fi books, including the best seller Darwin's Radio.
Now, the Homeland Security Department is calling on the group to help with the government's latest top mission of combating terrorism.
Although some sci-fi writers' futuristic ideas might sound crazy now, scientists know that they often have what seems to be an uncanny ability to see into the future.
More SF Writer Blog
Late in 2006, a Department of Homeland Security executive who was also a science fiction fan requested the participation of professional science fiction writers in an upcoming conference. The Sigma group attending included Jerry Pournelle, LARRY NIVEN, Greg Bear (all bestselling authors), and the lesser-knowns, including Sage Walker, Yoji Kondo (NASA astrophysicist), and myself.
The intent of the conference was to introduce a reorganized Science and Technology Directorate to the defense contractors of the world, and to explain how Homeland Security was soliciting responses to specific terrorist and criminal threats. Areas of concern affect many of us in Corpus Christi directly, such as how to detect and stop terrorists, smugglers and other criminals; how to prepare for and respond to natural disasters such as hurricanes and floods; how to secure our borders from illegal immigrants, criminals and terrorists; how to help first responders communicate with each other; how to identify and detect dangerous cargoes on trucks, trains, airplanes and cargo containers; and many more.
Adm. Jay Cohen, undersecretary for Homeland Security's Science and Technology Directorate, told the attendees he was DISAPPOINTED by the proposals he had received. He wanted more imaginative, RISKIER projects and countermeasures than the contractors had sent in.
--
Sigma had an in-brief and an out-brief with Homeland Security personnel, all of whom were enthusiastic about our "FAR-OUT" ideas. Most of those specific ideas will not be made public, for obvious reasons, but the broad areas included tunnel detection, fire-flame front suppression, psychological profiling, face recognition, interoperability of communications systems, and local and national POLITICAL RESPONSES to attacks and natural disasters on the order of 9/11 and Katrina. Almost all of these were novel or unique ideas. Some critics have grumbled that the government should not waste its time on science-fiction writers.
This blogger sums it up perfectly:
my main beef with the Sigma Group doing this is the apparent total lack of any consideration about the long-term ramifications of their assistance to the government. There’s no website that I could find which outlines any sort of ethical considerations which the group might have, and based on the various news stories and author’s statements about the group, it would appear that they’re just naively lobbing snips of their disruptive tech/scientific ideas over to the government to use in any way they see fit.
They apparently are more concerned about trying to promote themselves and reassure themselves that they have scientific respectability than they are concerned about the welfare of the human race. One would wish that they had learned the lessons of scientists and engineers of the past who later saw that the willy-nilly deployment of new technologies could cause more destruction and problems for the human race, sometimes outweighing the improvements they originally intended. One great example would be the scientist Alfred Nobel who invented dynamite, and later sought to counteract the negative effects of his life’s work by founding the Nobel Prize.
It’s odd an astounding that they would now lend their support to a government which has used fear-mongering to erode human rights and expand the military-industrial complex more extensively than any time in the past.
More historical info on Sigma 6:
Six writers - nicknamed the “Sigma Six”, after “Six Sigma” (a set of practices for reducing defects through process improvements), met with the Homeland Security group with members of the government’s High Impact Technology Solutions (”HITS”) program leaders to speculate on innovative ways that technology could improve the government’s ability to monitor individuals, identify and assess threats. The six writers involved were Greg Bear, Sage Walker, and Arlan Andrews, Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven, and Yoji Kondo “Eric Kotani"
WOW, UNBELIEVABLE, does this government want to purposely screw everything up b4 they leave office and have this crap left for the next government to clean up, ANTIs is this your doing? Do you condone STAR WARS protecting our borders? What a JOKE.
Although I would want to hear the other side of the story (an unbiased one) before deciding if these ideas are as a far fetched as claimed, these desperate measures are what it has come down to since terrorism, drug and people smuggling and illegal aliens have forced our hand.
I see nothing wrong with it. Outside the box thinking brings a different dynamic and often results in new technologies.
I don't agree with the false accusations they would purposely use, however they do have different ideas that may need to be heard.
Anon1, ANTI's is this your doing? You're an IDIOT!!!
Star Wars on the border, works for me.
The next Government to take clean it up? The next Government will do nothing other than continue on the same path they have been on for years. There will be no major changes to anything, no matter the new President. Same crap, different day.
Liquid. Remember. No name calling.
As an aside: Liquid, you know I like you! Anon1, you know I like you. Liquid is so much like my husband. (so strong willed and always thinks he´s right) Anon1 is so much like my son. (So compassionate, humanitarian and likes to side with his mother.)
You both have very good points of view. Just different. So lets stick to the civil debates and not name calling please.
Liquid,
I am a little shocked that you are somewhat approving of what SIGMA is suggesting.
Frankly, I am appalled!
When I first read what Niven said, my first reaction was shock. (No! he did not say that)
Then anger. (He said that!!!)
Then I tried to rationalize. That is when I started asking questions and googling all the references. Is the government taking these nut cases seriously? Are they paying them for their stupid ideas? Are they incorporating their ideas?
Now I am back in shock again because after research I have found the government IS in fact using them and IS in fact taking their ideas seriously!
Wow!!!
dee, "remember no name calling". Does that include anon1 calling us anti's, racists in another topic? I thought not! I don't recall him/her getting a warning. Gee, this is just like the Hispanic Business Forum where the moderating is biased.
Gosh Pat, That is twice now you are giving free advertising for HSB. Hmmmm. What are you up to?
Anyway, the line is drawn when you call me or someone else an idiot. I guess that makes it clear. So no name calling Pat.
Going back to topic.
When Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial losses is to spread rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to harvest their organs for transplants.
I was absolutely appalled that the Dept of Homeland Security would hire these SciFi guys and have them come up with these racist ideas! Shame on them!!
Oh, I see calling someone an idiot is not acceptable but calling them a racist is?
dee, well we finally agree on something. It is unacceptable to me to spread such rumors about our emergency rooms also. However, how can anyone be so stupid as to believe that is what actually would happen to them?
Organ Harvesting happens Pat.
Google News the topic and you will see many many recent cases!
Of course organ harvesting is happening after a patient dies but are you saying that they are killing people on purpose to harvest their organs?
dee
when marching today, tell everyone
that the rumor about the emergency room is not true, but on the other hand tell everyone not to use the emergency room as a doctor's office. Tell tem to take their insurance cards and go to the doctor's office for colds and other minor problems. If they do not have insurance, tell them to pay for the visit.
Yes Pat. Why do you think there was such an issue with the Olympic Torch. Try google news and enter harvesting organs.
BadAnon, Gosh you are so full of anger and malice. You should reflect inwardly and ask yourself why. You remind me of an old bird I used to know.
(badanon, lol Dee your so funny) Micro, I never resort to name calling, wouldn't want to be confused with an ANTI, only thing I've ever called you is, "THE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE." (but that's a compliment right) And badanon, Dee poses a great question, what's the deal with all the anger, what happened in your life that gave you all this anger? hmmm…
LOL-it's you again dee posing as ANON1--you don't fool anyone!
Don't just talk the talk-walk the walk--get out there today and march! (take anon1 with you-lol)
If a Hispanic person believed the story then he's already had his brain harvested ... so a couple more organs aren't going to hurt.
anon 1: People tend to get cranky when they're being ethnically cleansed from their native land. I'm sure Mexicans would if they were in the same situation. (A point I've tried to make a million times but which goes in one ear and out the other.)
Furthermore, Dee, what kind of immigrants are these hypothetical believers in organ harvest? They love America and are keen to become citizens? Yet they believe the medical system (and thus the laws, government, etc) is so corrupt that Latinos will be singled out for this diabolical scheme?
IDIOT is not name calling, IDIOT describes what you are: an uneducated or ignorant person.
"Idiot" was originally created to refer to "layman, person lacking professional skill", "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning". Declining to take part in public life, such as democratic government of the polis (city state), such as the Athenian democracy, was considered dishonorable. "Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters. Over time, the term "idiot" shifted away from its original connotation of selfishness and came to refer to individuals with overall bad judgment–individuals who are "stupid". In modern English usage, the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity, its symptoms (foolish or stupid utterance). In psychology, it is a historical term for the state or condition now called profound mental retardation.
That all above explains your PRO view point and your intelligent posts (rolling eyes) you provide.
nice liquid-describes dee to a tee!
ANTI'S = RACIST, no further description required, 'nuff said
PS stop putting us to sleep micro and post something interesting and stop adding "(rolling eyes)," we all know your a DIVA
Ailing Americans Eagerly Await Summer Organ Harvest
KANSAS CITY, KS—With spring in full swing and millions of potential organ donors entering the peak season for boating, hiking, and drowning accidents, the nation's transplanters are predicting a bumper crop in the upcoming harvest, which is welcome news to ailing patients in dire need of organs across America's liver-, lung-, and heartlands.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48459
anon1, I thought you said you haven't name called in here. You just called us racists. Where is the fair and unbiased dee to warn you like she warned liquid?
You know what Liquid, I like you but you have really lost this entire argument. You have allowed yourself to be swayed. You have allowed yourself to be swayed by a PRO1 personality.
You are an intelligent person and among ALL the ANTIs, by far, you and Ulty, have the best, logical arguments. You stay even and sometimes even better me. However, you have allowed yourself to be way-layed, side-lined by your anger and animosity towards Anon1. I think that is amazing!! In and of itself, I think it is amazing. You, tied for 1st for your entire group, have allowed yourself to be way-layed and side-stepped because YOU became angry vs sticking to the argument which you were holding almost even.
Hmmmm...
Makes you wonder.
In the world of debate, how to you way-lay and stop your opponent.
Anon1, I give you KUDOS!!!
AnonT (the bad one), just to let you know, Liquid was referencing Anon1.
AnonT, Pat said you were seeking help. I do not want to deter you from getting the help you need. I will NOT pick on you.
You hypocrite, dee. You said you wanted civil debate and yet you don't warn anon1 about calling us, racists? Yet you warn liquid about using the word idiot? I hope liquid comes back with a vengeance over your hypocricies and your personal attack on him.
Your side is losing and you know it so you are getting angry (don't insult my intelligence by denying it either) and taking it out on the anti's in here and using them for your whipping post. Sad for a grown woman.
Swayed?? by someone that has yet to refute or even rebut anything that has been posted? My calling Anon1 an Idiot was his referring to "WOW, UNBELIEVABLE, does this government want to purposely screw everything up b4 they leave office and have this crap left for the next government to clean up, ANTIs is this your doing?'
For which I called him an Idiot. For which Idiot means: "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning". based on his idiotic post above. If he would just post anything with reason, refute, hell just rebut any arguments that would be one thing, however his ignorance in not knowing even how to do that is just pitifully. You know I am willing and ready to debate an argument, but when he brings nothing to the table, what good is he? I think Idiot fit him to a "T".
His ANTI's=Racist, just shows more of his ignorance, he paints all of us the same, yet has no real clue as to what any of our ideals are. He has done no research into anything, and acusses everybody of the same thing. Maybe you could set him straight, email him so hes not so embarrassed here about some of our positions, maybe then he might post with something worth refuting.
Liquid, Even though you started the argument on this particular post from an inaccurate perspective, I did not call you a name. I merely posted more facts and articles about SIGMA to let you know they are a group hired by the government and they have paid them millions of dollars. Talk about idiotic ideas, SIGMA´s suggestions about scaring ALL Latinos out of hospital with this SciFi Organ Harvesting scare was absolutely idiotic!
As far as Anon 1, as I said Liquid, I like you both and there is room for all of us to discuss freely except for name calling. Look how much room I give to Pat and angryAnon. (talk about opps I have to name call... good thing I bite my tongue)
No comment about the article I posted from the Onion, huh? Your lacking!!
SIGMA has been working for the Gov't off and on for 15 or so years. As I stated above I am open to hearing some of their ideas, however I do not condone false assumptions that you show they made about harvesting organs, and as far as I know, China is the only country so far that actually does do that.
micro, pat, I only re-act to earlier posts, it was you who drew 1st blood, I'm from the old school, "treat others how you want to be treated," if someone has an opinion of me than I have no problem with that, just don't get upset and cry like a baby when I express my re-action of truth in my opinion of you or all ANTI's, if my re-action wasn't civil than that must mean I wasn't treated with civility, now I work for a living (LONG HOURS) and raising 2 kids so my time here is VERY limited to just my work breaks and lunches, so I cannot post articles, research, (as Dee does so professionally) I cannot do anything other than post my opinion on Dee's blogs or ANTI posts which I do wish I had more time to do more and there may come a time when I can so all you will see for now are just my re-actions to posts or blogs
Well Liquid, The onion article was rather grotesque, but I suppose organ donations are needed and if accident season occurs it makes sense additional organ donations follow.
Quite different then Nivens suggestion however.
Anon1, It was nice of you to provide the additional explanation about time for research. I´m glad you do take the time to join us! Your feedback is very helpful.
Still won't answer my question as to why you would warn liquid and not anon1, will you dee?
anon1, I am willing to bet that it was you who started with the insults, not me or any other anti in here. It is typical of the pro-illegals to do that. They lie and try to claim that the anti's start with the insults and when the anti's defend themselves from your initital attacks you and your ilk lie and say it was us who started it. You know I can go back over the posts and prove you wrong, don't you? I think I will!
Here you go, anon1. You started with the insults in this topic to the anti's. I copied and pasted your remarks below. Not one anti insulted you first, liar!
anon 1 said...
ANTI'S = RACIST, no further description required, 'nuff said
PS stop putting us to sleep micro and post something interesting and stop adding "(rolling eyes)," we all know your a DIVA
May 1, 2008 4:39 PM
Cry-like a baby? who are you kidding now? I too am from the old school, where if you join into a conversation of people talking, that you don't dumb it down with your ignorance. You should at least have the ability to ad to the conversation and not diminish it.
So, do you wish to continue with the insults? or do you think you can ad to the conversations?
Like you, I work for a living and raise 2 daughters, a 5 yr old and a 2 yr old. However I find the time to interject commentary worth rebutting/refuting. Your re-actions should not be with insults or painting all ANTI's with a broad brush, you should show some intelligence and opine on the questions posed or opine on the caption Dee has posted. You might then find hostilities diminishing towards you.
liquid, anon1 reminds me of the members of another pro-illegal forum. They can't debate the issues civilly, all they can do is toss insults around all day. Very childish and immature. Seems to be the nature of the pro-illegal movement.
Actually Pat, Dee needs to go back to this posting from Anon1: anon 1 said...
do I have to explain to this yutz too that i'm not Dee, i covered this with the last poster who thought i was Dee, although flattered since i very much respect Dee for her insight on the subject and courage for voicing her opinion against you RED FACED ANGRY ANTI'S who have nothing better to do but pick on ppl and get stumped by Dee every time, Anonymous, just like the prev poster who though I was Dee, YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT!!!
April 21, 2008 2:27 PM
Yet, I am chastised for it. Go figure. By the way Dee, you now owe me an apology. I only used a word, IDIOT, which seemed to be acceptable.
liquid, funny how anon1 would use one of dee's favorite phrases, "red faced and angry", isn't it? How many people other than dee do you hear use the word "Mayberry" too? Someone really thinks we are gullible.
Actually Pat, they are 2 different people. Anon1 believes the same as Dee, he just mimics her. Their IP address are located in different cities. The difference is, Dee actually makes an attempt to answer posed questions and she doesn't paint with such a broad brush at times, nor does she hurl insults so quickly, however, Anon1 points to all as the same and thinks all are the far fringe, he has no ability to comprehend or differentiate the different views expressed by us. He is quick to hurl insults due to his ignorance of a topic.
Gosh Liquid, I am so flattered you took the time to check all of us out. You and I did share emails, etc a while back its true and I guess anyone can investigate anyones IP address if they want to go to those lengths. I dont.
My whole point in my blog is as my mission states:
To provide a forum where people, both PRO and ANTI, can discuss American Immigration Issues civilly, freely and safely thereby reducing the hate, anger and misunderstandings currently inherent in most of these discussions.
Pat,
As for you, I keep you around so the viewers can see I dont make up ANTIs like you.
Do you bring intelligence, investigation, research, new ideas to the table? No. $0
Comedy Relief? Sometimes $10
Proof that blatant ANTIs exist? Yes. $ Priceless!
Liquid,
This idiot picture reminds me of this whole argument. Ok. From now on, when anyone uses the word idiot, I will use that as grounds to delete that particular comment.
I am kinda torn on what to do if one uses the term yutz. I will just leave it alone for now.
For the most part, in here things do stay civil, you just suddenly had a biased perspective for chastising me for the word IDIOT against one of yours, yet when one of yours used the word against one of mine it was never looked at. You want civility and fairness, then chastise both sides equally, otherwise its a free for all, and I can insult just as well as anybody.
As for the IP address, you can get a free program anywhere all line that shows IP address while on line, watch in some of your forums you frequent, sometimes in the bottom of someones signature they will have your info displayed. So you see, there really is no investigative work, so no, don't flatter yourself.
dee, do you call civility in here saying that I lack intelligence? How dare you! You have no basis whatsover for that remark. You don't know anything about me or at what level I have achieved academically either. I don't post a lot of articles and research because you would just call them biased and not credible anyway. I argue strickly from the rule of law and that is one thing you cannot call biased or not credible. That is what really bugs you about me. I call you for what you are also and that bugs you too. So, your most fierce adversary arguing from the most sensible, logical and lawful position leaves you without a valid argument so you resort to ad hominem attacks such as "you lack intelligence". You just proved how much you look like a fool trying to debate with me. It isn't my "lack of intelligence". It is your lack of not being able to justify your viewpoint.
Pat,
I like you here. That is why you are here.
I'm back only to find that exactly what I thought would happen, happened, you guys (for guys) sure cry alot about how your feelings get hurt, As I said b4, I re-act to the treatment shown towards me, if you deem it "DUMBING DOWN" then that is the level I am willing to lower towards to re-act because as I said, treat ppl how you want to be treated, and if Dee wants civility then fine lets keep it civil, Dee, you know I back you with anything you post, So far all these ANTI's can focus on is their feelings getting hurt
I'm back only to find that exactly what I thought would happen, happened, you guys (for guys) sure cry alot about how your feelings get hurt, As I said b4, I re-act to the treatment shown towards me, if you deem it "DUMBING DOWN" then that is the level I am willing to lower towards to re-act because as I said, treat ppl how you want to be treated, and if Dee wants civility then fine lets keep it civil, Dee, you know I back you with anything you post, So far all these ANTI's can focus on is their feelings getting hurt
anon1, no what we are focusing on is that all the pro's do is resort to personal attacks rather than debating the issues with civility. It is a sure sign of one who has lost the argument already.
Anon1,
As always, I appreciate your continued feedback and support. I know you have a full time job and give us all you can for our discussion.
Pat,
Dont worry. I like you here. No one would believe you except for the fact you continue as you always do.
Although you and I disagree on everything from A - Z, I do appreciate your continuing the fight from your perspective.
I do want all sides to contribute freely and openly.
BOY, you have serious issues. I'm betting you don't know when to quit. Nobodies feelings are/were hurt. You are probably one of those guys who runs his mouth and dares the other to do something about it. Well, I am the other, I would be the first to smash your mouth.
You react with your mouth, as I posted with your earlier posting where you called someone a yutz and then an idiot, all because that someone called you Dee. You took that as an insult? Yet here you are agreeing with her every whim. Nobody attacked you, yet you ran your mouth.
You lower yourself with your own ignorance, you truly are pathetic.
boy micro and I'm the one with the issues? pretty tough when typing online on a blog aren't you, "Well, I am the other, I would be the first to smash your mouth."
Predictable anon1, predictable. FYI for you, I throw trees around all day that weigh more than you. So, its not just while here on a keyboard/blog/forum/computer.
You are now posting your opinion without insults in the other topics, I applaud you. Between you and I, no insults thrown at me, no insults thrown at you. Keep it that way, fair enough.
and thats all this is man, opinion, when I see ppl like pat saying things like "BITCH" on here I re-act at that level, so far micro I've got to say you present yourself well at times and for what it's worth I'm no slouch myself, I've never backed down from anyone especially when it comes to defending myself and others
Good day !.
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