I have been listening to pundits, particularly on Fox News, all asking, “Why didn´t Republicans carry the Latino Vote as they did in 2004?”
The answer is simple. Republicans did not ask us to the party. We were their ugly dates. They thought putting up a few ads in Spanish on Univision, whispering a few lies they thought we wanted to hear, would swing our votes to them. They thought putting a few bucks into the pockets of old school Latino politicians would get them our votes. Maybe that worked in 2000 and 2004, but it did not work in 2008 and it will not work in the future.
Why? Technology. We have caught up with the rest of America. More and more Latinos, young and old, are on the internet. More and more Latinos are hosting blogs and commenting in newspapers. We have found our voice and we have made connections with each other. Two of our largest concerns are Immigration issues and the resulting Racial Profiling.
The Immigration debate has impacted every brown person in America. Rampant racial profiling is occurring across the nation. Our cars are being followed. Our children are being harassed. Every brown worker in public view is being scrutinized with the unasked questions floating in many eyes, “Are you an illegal immigrant?” “Are you Mexican?” The eyes are not kind. They are angry and accusatory.
Racial Profiling is wrong, but what is worse is the poor treatment being received by the 12M undocumented workers in our country. In 2007 and 2008, we have witnessed some of the most inhumane treatment of workers in history as they were sent off to cattle barns and families sent to crony owned private prison Detention Centers.
We are also viewing what the ANTI Immigration Reform supporters are saying and videos they are posting on the internet. Much of it is not a pretty picture. On the anonymous internet, many ANTIs are not only outspoken with hate towards illegal immigrants but they frequently bash anyone who advocates Comprehensive Immigration Reform. While there are some in their ranks that have valid concerns, there are also many members from extremist hate groups like the KKK and White Nationalists. Overall, there is no doubt this group is skilled at using the internet and technology towards their advantage. They know how to mass email and fax Congress. They know how to stir up their media and shock jock advocates like Dobbs, Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh. They know how to “yank Congress´s chain” to heed their call. However, what is clear is, they are not the large numbers some of their members try to represent.
The PRO Immigration Reform supporters are different than many of the ANTI groups. They are not angry exclusionists. They seek resolution to the Immigration issues via Comprehensive Immigration Reform and the end to Racial Profiling. They are comprised of many Latinos and other groups interested in CIR. I often say the PRO CIR supporters are similar to the members of the 60´s Civil Rights Movement, advocating change and improvement of bad laws. This group is growing and wants both Republicans and Democrats to hear and respect their views. Like all Americans, PROs want an improved America and Immigration is but one issue they support. PROs also ask for Change in the Economy, Healthcare, War, and Education.
Why Latinos DID NOT vote for Republicans in 2008:
The Republican Party candidates were overrun with ANTI Immigration Reformers. Angry candidates like Tom Tancredo peppered their language with obviously racist outbursts. His comments, “Miami is a 3rd world country!” and telling El Paso citizens against the Border Fence to move across the border put him over the top as the worst candidate.
Watching the Republican candidates´ debates cast this negative light on the entire Republican party as candidate after candidate followed Tancredo´s lead. The only Republican that had any small hope of obtaining any Latino support was John McCain. In 2006, he did support CIR along with Ted Kennedy and initially was a maverick on this issue, until his view came under Republican scrutiny during the election campaign. Then, McCain flip-flopped to the restrictionist perspective. This hurt him with Latinos. What made it worse was his “ugly date” strategy of winning us over. His backdoor meeting with old time Latino politicos topped with his Spanish only ads on Latino stations like Univision created another failure! Latino Bloggers LAUGHED at these obvious ploys!
McCain was certainly not helped by the fact his own state hosts the vilest of all ANTI Immigration Reform zealots, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. This suppression raider, armed with masked, volunteer storm troopers, has rampaged across Maricopa country throwing his girth around, blathering about his successes. He boasts of his racial profiling suppression sweeps. His worst example was storm-trooping a children´s Confirmation Mass.
Many blogs, including mine, called on McCain to disavow Arpaio. He did not. I invited McCain to speak on my blog. He did not.
Why Latinos DID vote for Democrats in 2008:
Democrats respected Latino voters and listened to Latino concerns openly and publicly. Many Democrats have advocated CIR for some time, especially via the Kennedy-McCain bill. The Latino Caucus hosted the Congressional Review of the ICE raids in Postville. It became clear the Democrats were listening and acting on some issues.
Of the Democratic candidates, all supported some version of CIR. Additionally, Barack Obama and Hillary visited Latino communities and sat down and listened to them. Additionally both Barack Obama and Hillary were invited to write on many Latino blogs. Barack Obama wrote on my blog in February, 2008.
Dolores Huerta and many national Latino celebrities actively participated in the Democratic campaigns. Dolores, one of our long time civil rights heroes spoke at the Democratic convention.
How to Gain and Keep the Latino Vote:
Respect Latinos and Listen to their issues. Proudly Invite Latinos to the Party. Respond to Latino views as equally as to other constituents. Talk to them on their blogs, on the internet.
We are citizens. We love America. We are family focused, hard working, military supporting, Christian people. We do want to see change in Immigration, the Economy, Healthcare, the War, and Education, just like most other Americans.
The Republicans made a big mistake, not only with Latinos, but with all other minorities. Look at John McCain´s audiences. They EXCLUDED. They were not inclusive. This was epitomized by Sarah Palin´s “Real America” comments. The election results PROVED she was wrong. The Republicans made that mistake and if they continue it, it will no longer be the GOP, but the Grand, Long-Gone Party!
We, of all ethnicities, of every color, all of us, all inclusive, this RAINBOW, are the HEART and the Real America!
God Bless America!
Thursday, November 6, 2008
Why Republicans Did Not Carry the Latino Vote! They Treated Latinos Like Their Ugly Dates!
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 239 of 239Go back and read Sandra's last paragraph, the first sentence. Comprehend the wording and understand what was said. Quit the spin, because it has also been shown that "Illegal Aliens" have received welfare in the past.
Besides Liquid, This is a rather old report. It is from 1997 based on data prior to the 1996 law changing-eliminating any welfare for illegal immigrants.
Why not bring up current statistics.
Valid statistics from a reputable source. (Although it is off the topic of this discussion)
As long as you are doing this, to make this data meaningful, provide statistics for citizen welfare reciptions.
How about data for 2007. That would be current.
Provide welfare amounts recieved by White, Black, Latino, Other US Citizen recipients.
Then provide reports of welfare benefits provided TO Illegal Immigrants. (I doubt you find any since the Act of 1996 restricts this from happening) BUt go ahead and bring us these reports.
The reason that self-attrition didn't work at that time is because the incentives for them to stay hadn't changed yet. As I said, self-deportations won't work unless the incentives are removed first!
I will be glad to push e-verify with the employers and congress. Are you willing to do so also so that the employers can't get away with hiring illegal aliens anymore? Why aren't you on the band wagon yourself for this since you claim you want the employers punished?
I was looking at 2005 welfare data from .gov reports.
TotalAFDC Benefits:$10,739M $2,377M
#Families: 4.9M Children:3.7M
(only citizens are eligible for AFDC according to the .gov site)
Sandra,
eVerify is already in place.
Look at Laurel. They said they had it in place. But they looked for loopholes. They found them.
According to your statement below, the incentives have to be removed so people will voluntarily leave.
So what you are saying is ALL Businesses have to strictly enforce eVerify. How are you going to do that?
What you are totally missing is If businesses wanted to comply they would. If government wanted to enforce it, they would.
sandra said...
The reason that self-attrition didn't work at that time is because the incentives for them to stay hadn't changed yet. As I said, self-deportations won't work unless the incentives are removed first!
E-verify is already a program in use but the problem is that our government hasn't mandated it. I already stated several times in here that it needs to be MANDATED. It isn't up to me to monitor it but our government has ways of making sure it is complied with.
Why wouldn't any law abiding American insist that our government pass legislation to make sure that this happens? It can be passed just as your side is seeking to pass CIR. Our opponents against e-verify are the greedy, corrupt employers and the poltiicians who are in their back pockets. Do you want to join their side?
Your opponents to CIR have already explained their case in here many times by many members including myself.
Sandra,
You are cracking me up! I don't dispute facts, I dispute some of your opinions, and interpretations, which again, you insist are facts.
While it may be a FACT that:
*some have left the country from states that have enacted tougher laws there (for example, VA, OK, MS)
and
*some have just left to other more softer states,
you then make the prediction that with e-verify, everyone will just self deport. That’s not a fact. You also ASSume that all people who have self deported specifically have done so as a result of these laws, when the reality is people have been self-deporting since 2000 due to the ebb and flow of economic hard times and opportunities.
IMO, even if more states were to enact stricter laws, and e-verify were to actually happen nationwide, there will be certain people who will always find ways around the law because there already are people that live and work under the radar, under the table; it would just push those people further into the shadows.
Sandra,
Just admit it; you have opinions, like the rest of us. I'm not seeing facts that support any of your erroneous conjectures. As long as there are PROs and ANTIs, what you think will happen, will not always happen.
Dave
"How about data for 2007. That would be current.
Provide welfare amounts recieved by White, Black, Latino, Other US Citizen recipients.
Then provide reports of welfare benefits provided TO Illegal Immigrants."
You still spin the question to entertain your own thought. The question was the children of Illegal Aliens. Natural born children, you know, the 'Anchor Babies'. Sandra's exact statement was "Some illegal aliens DO collect welfare for their citizen children."
Prior to 1996, Illegal Aliens did receive welfare benefits quite openly. Since then, it has been much harder for them to attain. However, they do still qualify for medicaid, school lunches, and various other state benefits such as in some states in-state tuition for college. I could go on, but you deny and/or spin everything anyway. So, they may be barred from Federal welfare, but there Citizen children are not, thus that attain benefits based on Anchor Babies. As far as the states, each state is different, and so are the rules by which they can attain welfare, in most cases also through the Anchor Baby clause, but in few cases directly to them by way of low income.
Here's is but an example from North Carolina:
Family and Children's Medicaid Admin. Letters
IV. REPORTING ILLEGAL ALIENS
Medicaid does not report illegal aliens to the INS. For Work First and Food Stamps, illegal aliens will not be referred to INS unless the person is applying for benefits for themselves; and specific evidence is provided by INS or Executive Office of Immigration Review (EOIR), such as a Final Order of Deportation. No other criteria or evidence can or will warrant a referral being made to the INS. (See WF-111, Citizenship/Immigrant Rules, of the Work First Manual and FS-225, United States Citizenship and Alien Status, of the Food Stamp manual.)
Work First, Food Stamp and Medicaid policies direct that refusal or inability to provide verification of alien status render the individual ineligible for program benefits, with the exception of emergency Medicaid. However, that is not proof that an individual is an illegal alien and is not a valid reason for referral to INS as an illegal alien.
Now, please make note of:
II. SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS
Under Medicaid policy, a household member who is not applying for assistance for him or herself is not considered a “member of the assistance unit” and is not required to provide his or her SSN. For example, a mother who is applying for Medicaid for her children only, cannot be required to provide her SSN.
....
A non-assistance unit member who is applying for assistance for another is not required to provide his SSN even if he has financial responsibility for an assistance unit member. For example, an ineligible parent who is applying for his/her eligible children only, cannot be required to provide his/her SSN.
You must inform individuals that SSNs will be used to verify employment/income and for other reasons related to the administration of the programs. Be sure to inform individuals that SSNs will not be shared with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).
Applicants for emergency Medicaid do not have to provide their SSN.
Can you spot all the 'Loopholes' in the above wording and instructions??
Dave,
Please read my posts properly. I didn't say that they ALL would leave with e-verify and taking the incentives away. In FACT I said that is the reason that we would still need the detention centers. But it is a FACT that many or most would. It is also a FACT that many have left or are not coming anymore due to tougher enforcement measures.
Nothing I have said is opinion but FACT based on what has already happened.
Your very own report from the Texas Comptroller you so highly prize, even makes note of the $4.7B per year it costs the state of Texas.
UNDOCUMENTED
IMMIGRANTS IN TEXAS:
A Financial Analysis of the Impact
to the State Budget and Economy
The largest cost factor was education, followed by incarceration and healthcare.
...
State-paid health care costs are a small percentage of total health care spending for undocumented immigrants. (Federal Medicare makes up the difference)
...
While state revenues exceed state expenditures for undocumented immigrants (this is based on assumptions and estimates), local governments and hospitals experience the opposite, with the estimated difference being -$928.9 million for 2005. (So, as you can see, local Governments pay extensively for "Illegal Alien" welfare.)
...
Liquid,
I did NOT spin anything.
She and several other ANTIs believe the 12M workers here collect billions in welfare benefits every year. The fact is, they do not. The Immigration Act of 1996 changed all of that. THEY DO NOT COLLECT WELFARE. Period.
They NEED to get update.
Note:
Liquidmicro said...
"How about data for 2007. That would be current.
Provide welfare amounts recieved by White, Black, Latino, Other US Citizen recipients.
Then provide reports of welfare benefits provided TO Illegal Immigrants."
You still spin the question to entertain your own thought.
Sandra,
Perhaps you need to go to dictionary.com and try to understand the difference between Opinion and Fact.
You don´t KNOW that ANYone would leave because of eVerify. You don´t KNOW that Employers will institute eVerify.
You are sharing your opinion. Your thinking it will work does not make it so.
sandra said...
Dave,
Please read my posts properly. I didn't say that they ALL would leave with e-verify and taking the incentives away. In FACT I said that is the reason that we would still need the detention centers. But it is a FACT that many or most would. It is also a FACT that many have left or are not coming anymore due to tougher enforcement measures.
Nothing I have said is opinion but FACT based on what has already happened.
Sandra,
I'm done with trying to get you to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion. Believe what you want to believe. You clearly do not own a dictionary. Which is fine. In the end, I'm not the one you need to convince that your speculations will work, it's the Government you need to convince. Good luck with that.
Dave
Sorry Dave but it is you that doesn't know the difference between opinion and fact. Not only are there statistics to back up my statements but you fail to use common sense and logic also. Facts aren't subject to feeling or opinion. I cannot debate with those who refuse to see the facts so lets give at rest, ok?
"Once we have CIR, the only immigration coming is will be for legalized since the backlog is cleared with CIR."
In other words, sweep the illegal problem under the carpet. Out of sight, out of mind.
If you believe this will solve the problem, there are bridges all over the country I would like to sell you.
In 1986 Ted Kennedy stood up and said
"This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 -- 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another Amnesty Bill like this."
Does that sound familiar? Look where that got us!
Dee said, "You don´t KNOW that ANYone would leave because of eVerify. You don´t KNOW that Employers will institute eVerify."
Okay, let's be reasonable about this. To be effective E-verify has to be mandatory for all employees. It does not have to be implemented for all immediately. Using Pareto's rule we could easily postulate that an employer could focus initially on those who, for whatever reason, exhibit characteristics that suggest they are the most likely to have faulty documents.
It follows like night and day that if one cannot get work, there will be higher likelihood of returning to more familiar surroundings and a cheaper standard of living. It also follows that if those who are detected with faulty documents are put on a "no fly list", they will be denied not only their immediate job but any jobs anywhere in the country. Obviously, this has to be coupled with severe penalties for any employer who persists in employing illegals or who employs anyone from the "no fly list".
This can be a very effective way to cause many illegals to self-deport. The only thing lacking in this prescription is the will of the government and the support of Hispanic citizens. Either can scuttle the whole idea.
Liquid said, "The question was the Children of "Illegal Aliens" receiving welfare. The report, if you read thoroughly shows that, since the child born here is considered a natural born citizen, the child is then by right, able to receive welfare for which the parents apply."
And don't think the parents don't know that every child they have in the U.S. adds to their income. It is incredibly naive to ignore the basic issue by suggesting that illegals are not burdening our social systems and increasing our taxes and national debt because only their birthright citizen children can claim the welfare payments. Who is it that controls those many received? Certainly not the minor children, ergo illegals benefit from and control the ADC and other welfare their instant citizen childrens' entitlements. Let's get real here folks. We all know how this game is played.
"She and several other ANTIs believe the 12M workers here collect billions in welfare benefits every year. The fact is, they do not."
The FACT is they do collect monies off their 'Anchor Babies' along with other forms of welfare. Whether that equates to Billions of dollars or not is subject to debate. It may be over the Billion dollar mark or it may just be under tat very mark. The FACT is that they do collect hundreds of Millions of dollars worth of welfare. This you can not deny nor dispute, this is FACT!!
Dee said, "there was NO WELFARE provided to illegal immigrants." Right on, it goes right into the pockets of the new born and other instant citizens. No one should be fooled by such reports.
I think that this post is spot on. It clearly lays out why the GOP has lost Latino support, and what it will take to gain that support.
Hopefully some Republican activists will read it, and take it to heart.
Ulty,
The problem is the backlog and the quid pro quo of the current broken process. That was never fixed and has since become much, much worse!
ultima said...
We will never again bring forward another Amnesty Bill like this."
Does that sound familiar? Look where that got us!
Welcome C.M.,
Thank you for your kind words. I also hope they listen. We need all of our politicians to honestly and sincerely listen and respond to the people, including Latinos.
I hope you come back and participate on my blog often.
Both sides discuss immigration and political issues civilly although we do occassionally bicker. Good discussions though.
Ulty,
Paretos rule for everify? Gosh. Here you go with racial profiling again!
For those that don´t know what the rule is, for this exercise you list the characteristics of a likely illegal immigrant. This list would be created from actual reports or by brainstorming.
So the list would look like:
1. Latino
2. Brown
3. Male
4. 18 - 25
5. Catholic
6. Hard Workers
So anyone with these characteristics would be made to jump through hoops to ensure they were citizens. Everyone else would be left alone.
I think Arpaio already uses this list.
ultima said...
Dee said, "You don´t KNOW that ANYone would leave because of eVerify. You don´t KNOW that Employers will institute eVerify."
Okay, let's be reasonable about this. To be effective E-verify has to be mandatory for all employees. It does not have to be implemented for all immediately. Using Pareto's rule we could easily postulate that an employer could focus initially on those who, for whatever reason, exhibit characteristics that suggest they are the most likely to have faulty documents.
Ulty,
Have you been drinking too much koolaid lately?
There are NO benefits for illegal immigrants. Out of the BILLIONS paid to legal citizens, No AFDC payments are made to them. Billions Paid to Citizen Adult Parents too, to their household, but NOT for illegal immgrants. The only small fraction of $$ (and it is a SMALL FRACTION) is Paid to the Citizen Children. These checks may go to a designated payee. The payee does not require legal status.
What is clear is the ANTI side constantly misrepresents the Dollar Amount and the recipients.
Ultima said...
It is incredibly naive to ignore the basic issue by suggesting that illegals are not burdening our social systems and increasing our taxes and national debt because only their birthright citizen children can claim the welfare payments. Who is it that controls those many received? Certainly not the minor children, ergo illegals benefit from and control the ADC and other welfare their instant citizen childrens' entitlements. Let's get real here folks. We all know how this game is played.
Liquid has pretty much proven that many illegal aliens do receive welfare throught their citizen children and directly also. How can someone continue to deny it when the fact were posted?
As for e-verify, ALL employees would be checked not just one ethnic group. That would mean employees already on the payroll and any future hires. Lets not spread mis-information here.
Sandra,
You provided no links, no urls, no reports and obviously you are having difficulty interpreting what was said.
Illegal Immigrants CANNOT and DO NOT receive ANY AFDC dollars.
You claim they receive billions. That is a LIE. They recieve NONE.
The only stretch of an item you have is citizen children are eligible but the money goes to them! They may have a parent payee, but the payee is not compensated in any way shape or form by the goverment.
Try to catch up Sandra.
Your info from Worldnet Daily is a bunch of LIES!!!
sandra said...
Liquid has pretty much proven that many illegal aliens do receive welfare
Sandra,
You think employers will automatically make everify emandatory.
You say IF everify was mandatory for all employers and for all employees, then the 12M would automatically turn around and leave this country via self attrition.
You think this.
You believe it to be a Fact.
And someday you and kermit will actually find the rainbow connection. That´s a Fact you can believe in!
sandra said...
As for e-verify, ALL employees would be checked not just one ethnic group. That would mean employees already on the payroll and any future hires.
AFDC is now called TANF and can only be collected for 60 mos. It is more of a work program. Participants have to be working within 2 years.
It encourages parents to go to school and find work.
While there were roughly 4M families receiving TANF in 2007, only a small percentage included families where the payee may have been an illegal immigrant. The program excludes any benefits be provided to illegal immigrants.
sandra, is your name really "Sarah" as in SP?
Miss Dee,
It was liquidmicro who provided you the links to the facts about illegal aliens receiving welfare through their citizen children. I never said that I provided any. I was going to but liquidmicro already provided them. I am not the one who claimed billions or any particular dollar amount either. Please attribute the right remarks and stats to the right members in here!
Miss Dee,
Again, keep your members straight in here. It was not I who posted any stats from World Net Daily. I think an apology from you to me should be forth coming. Shall I hold my breath waiting?
If the government makes e-verify mandatory for all businesses they will have to comply or be fined, jailed and/or put out of business. MOST illegal aliens are not going to stay here if there are no jobs for them and that is a FACT.
So now you try to wiggle out of it, I see, Dee. AFDC or TANF is a Federal Welfare program, however, if you read what I posted you would note states also issue welfare, and it is at the local government level from which they get it too. So for you to say that "Illegal Aliens", 'They receive NONE', is but denying what has been shown and trying to credit yourself with an dishonest argument.
For you to say about AFDC/TANF, "The only stretch of an item you have is citizen children are eligible but the money goes to them!" when, again, your dishonest argument does not state the truth. The parents can still apply for their children, yet it is the parents to whom the check is given. What is a new born child or a kid going to do with a Government check?? The parents are to use it to help pay for the child's necessities, hence Ultima's statement, "And don't think the parents don't know that every child they have in the U.S. adds to their income."
So in essence, the more Anchor Babies the bigger the check is to the parents, whether they be Legal or "Illegal".
Well Sandra,
I am sorry you did not provide any urls to support your claims.
You are right that Worldnet Daily is NOT a reputable source.
sandra said...
Miss Dee,
Again, keep your members straight in here. It was not I who posted any stats from World Net Daily. I think an apology from you to me should be forth coming. Shall I hold my breath waiting?
Liquid,
Apparently you do not understand the term "payee" and how it is used under TANF.
Additionally, how this whole topic of TANF relates to the original post is anyone´s guess.
Liquidmicro said...
For you to say about AFDC/TANF, "The only stretch of an item you have is citizen children are eligible but the money goes to them!" when, again, your dishonest argument does not state the truth.
Back to topic:
I have been reading some other pundits and discussion boards discussing this very topic.. the Latino Vote.
Republicans will NOT win our vote unless they invite us to the party. They have to treat us as equally as their base and expand their policies to include our views.
Republicans cannot expect Latinos to join them if they do not listen to our perspective.
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