Saturday, January 30, 2010

What do we do to improve our Current Broken Immigration Processes?

Most people know and understand our current immigration policies are Broken.

Congressman Gutierrez has submitted an Immigration Reform Bill. Whether you agree with him or not, you must agree our policies are broken.

From my perspective, there are 3 strategies:
1. We can DO NOTHING and stay in Status Quo (broken immigration policies; promote racial profiling)

2. We can enforce current laws and demand Mass Deportation
3. We can fix the broken processes, fix the problems in Immigration Courts and support Comprehensive Immigration Reform

As I've been studying this issue, various groups have different perspectives. For example, Farm Bureaus promote Temporary Worker Programs:
"Federal lawmakers and the new administration also should complete an unfinished immigration bill left over from 2008. They expressed support for immigration reform that provides a more efficient temporary worker program for agriculture. They voted to support improved training for employers to help them understand and better use the current H-2A seasonal agricultural worker program, and better information delivery for new users of the program."

It is clear we cannot sit still and do nothing. What should we do to improve our current broken processes?


Anonymous said...

No, we don't all agree that our immigration policies are broken. That is merely you and your ethnocentric fellow Latinos who think that because of your agenda to fill up our country with more Latinos.

You forgot among your suggested stratagies that there is another option and that is to implement e-verify across the country, refuse taxpayer benefits to illegal aliens, fixing the 14th amendment of birthright citizenship and securing our borders by any means necessary. That isn't the status quo!!! That is the only stratagy that makes sense for our country and our citizens of which takes second place among you ethnocentrics.

There is nothing broken in our system when we already take in enough legal immigrants based on our needs. You call a broken system one which doesn't allow for more immigrants to come here than we have jobs and resources for. That doesn't make it broken it makes it anti-American and bizarre to say the least.

Dee said...

What you describe is clearly No. 2, Mass Deportation. You and the rest of the ANTIs will not be satisfied until you "rid yourselves" of all Latinos. This is obvious as you talk about the 14the Ammendment and those YOU term "anchor babies."

It is YOU that is ethnocentric, only wanting to surround yourself with other White Nationals and Neo-Nazis like yourself.

Vicente Duque said...

Immigration reform was a winning issue in the 2008 presidential elections. John McCain was the only pro-reform candidate yet won his party's nomination

The Immigration Tea Leaves of Professor Greg Weeks - Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. He is the editor of the academic journal "The Latin Americanist".

Professor Weeks is one of my favorite people in Academia - He is usually Rational, Cerebral, Professorial and somewhat Liberal

Two Weeks Notice
Latin American Politics Blog
More immigration tea leaves
By Greg Weeks

More immigration tea leaves

Some excerpts :

Anyone interested in immigration reform is looking for signs of life. I've already noted how President Obama gave only a lackluster reference in the SOTU. Now according to Jeffrey Kaye writing at the Huffington Post, a lobbyist who is involved in negotiating a bipartisan bill says they won't even have a first draft until at least March. I generally agree with Kaye's pessimistic assessment of the situation, but disagree with one point:

( Here there is a chunk from the Huffington Post article )

Immigration reform was a winning issue in the 2008 presidential elections. Recall that John McCain was the only pro-reform candidate yet won his party's nomination. Plus, both parties will once again want to court Latino voters. I have said many times that there is no Latino bloc and Latinos are not necessarily even in favor of reform. However, the perception that a "Latino vote" exists has been a motivator for politicians to embrace reform.

Youth, Minorities, Politics :

Vicente Duque

Proletariat Defender said...

"What do we do to improve our Current Broken Immigration Processes?"

Have we tried using duct-tape?

They seem to use the same tactic with healthcare and government spending....

Maybe it's worth a shot?

I Travel for JOOLS said...

First, there is one thing the American people will not tolerate and that is lack of attention to our borders that results in a terrorist attack of any kind. Latino citizens should recognize that because they are Americans and of course do not want that to happen. Therefore, the borders must be protected at any cost and Latino American citizens must support vigorous border security and say so ! If they don't, everything else will be met with deaf ears.

Next, I don't believe the American people believe in mass deportation. It is not practical. Therefore, something has to be done and eventually will be done. AFTER BORDER SECURITY. And, probably not while the economy is in the tank. But, after that,

1. A path to citizenship for those without a record.
2. First, registration of all illegal immigrants.
3. Then, a work permit if records are clean, but
4. 5 years until any social benefits just the same as current policies for immigrants from countries applying for citizenship.
5. Chain migration not allowed until citizenship granted and then very limited to immediate family.

And finally, I think the US has to change its laws so that once American citizenship granted, no more dual citizenships - all former citizenships renounced. Love it or leave it.

Vicente Duque said...

My Migra Rant : Immigration Reform will take a lot of time - Many non Latinos realize that this should be studied in a Realistic and Scientific way, not with passions

I observe with complacency and pleasure that Non Latino America is becoming more Prudent and Rational with respect to the problem of Immigration. There are good heads in Universities and other places of Intelligence.

The Political Agenda and Troubles of Mr Obama and the Democratic Party dictate that this will be postponed. Mr Obama is not going to drink the poison of Immigration this year, perhaps not until 2013 ( if reelected ). My advice for Mr Obama is "Delay and Procrastinate" if you want to win elections.

Total Amnesty is absurd - Recent arrivals should be deported if they are undocumented.

"Recent arrivals" ( or number of years ) can be defined by Congress, Universities, Economists, Attorneys, etc ... in an intelligent way. This Immigration bill and project should be studied by the best Professionals in Economy, Sociology, etc ... and not left abandoned, only to be discussed by Teabagger Mobs.

Many criminals and delinquents should be deported. Also people that do not work, are lazy, drug addicts, etc ....

The Super Racists that want 12 million deported are not Realistic. This is impractical and can ruin the Economy of many towns and even States.

The United States has made a big investment in the Education of Young Latinos .... Expulsion will be like throwing treasures to the bottom of the Sea. Yes, Youth is the Greatest Treasure ! ... no matter the color of the youngsters.

And there are other Moral or Ethical considerations, the image or "Good Will" of America is also an Accounting Asset to be written in the "Balance of America Inc."

The Super Racists are not Realistic in believing that the Culture of the United States is going to be ruined or sunk by Latinos. No Realism in Third Worldization or "Untergang des Westens" ( The sinking of the West ) ..... Remember that Oswald Spengler was UberNationalistic as he wrote in the preface of his book, written probably in 1914 when Germans were very bullish about their militarism.

There is a lot of Hate, Fear and Paranoia and that is why Lou Dobbs, Glen Beck, Sean Hannity et al. take advtange to become rich with the "Confirmation Bias" Psychology. That is People that need the daily masturbation of their prejudices.

Youth, Minorities, Politics :

Vicente Duque

ultima said...

Perhaps the first thing everyone who thinks our present immigration system is broken should reflect on is, "Be careful what you wish for!"

Why is it so many Hispanics and other wish to come to America? Is it because they are and were unable to produce a similar form of government, economic advantages, unparalleled freedom, and all the other things we treasure about our great country. Now ask yourself what the likely outcome will be if we are flooded by the failures from Latin America? Sure many of them will succeed because they are or can be just as intelligent as others. But in the long run it will be inevitable that America will become more and more like the failed countries from which the illegals and other immigrants have fled. Why is that? I think because they were not raised with the ideals, energy, work ethic, political acumen, strong patriotic spirit, cultural strength that Americans have enjoyed. What those who wish for the old style CIR want is the complete Latinization of America and the ultimate outcome of that is easily predictable and viewable in the nations to our south, the failed governments who cannot provide for their own citizens.

It does not follow from Anon's remarks that he or anyone else is in favor of mass deportation. That is a red herring that Dee likes to bring up all of the time even those much more modest goals and reforms have often been discussed here and elsewhere. No loyal American can be in favor of allowing our country to overrun by immigrants from failed countries.

Why not start with E-verify across the board for all employers and all employees, both current and new. Illegals indentified through this system need not be summarily fired if the employer can demonstrate that he cannot fill his jobs by offering a living wage and a hiring preference to citizens. Surely, no one wishes to argue that foreigner should have precedence over citizens for jobs but that is exactly what CIR means, especially during our present economic problems. It is really hard to understand why anyone would want to increase legal immigration and grant amnesty while 10-17% of Americans are out of work.

Unemployment of all kinds should be the criterion for immigration policy. If it is above a specified level, legal immigration is frozen and illegals are expeditiously removed. If we are unable to meet demonstrated labor needs, a flexible immigration policy would allow more to enter or stay if they have the needed skills and are otherwise prepared to be good citizens.

Mass deportation is not an option but systematic, gradual identification and removal of those illegals who are surplus to our labor needs is a reasonable and desirable policy.

Some have suggested that we need secure borders but would deny us the tools to accomplish that goal -- E-verify, internal enforcement, expeditious immigration court decisions with a limited time for appeals, a six month sentence working on border infrastructure for those who dodge E-verify and removal, fines and jail time on an escalating scale for miscreant employers. Two year hard time for repeat offenders both illegals and employers. Mandatory family health insurance for all foreign workers paid for by their employers.

There are many other positive and reasonable reforms that could be undertaken to try to save this country from its decline and fall. AZtlan proponents are serious. They know the numbers are on their side. They have already defeated an immigration reform measure in CA. What state will be next? And those who collude with them are pushing what they call a progressive agenda which they think will be facilitated by more immigrants. Unfortunately, that so-called progressive agenda will move us closer and closer to the failed tenets of Communism.

Shortsightedness and ethnocentrism are the main factors clouding the minds of those who want CIR. They don't realize that the result of their ideas will be the decline and fall of the Great American Republic.

ultima said...

1. E-verify across the board
2. Gradual and systematic removal of illegals who are surplus to our labor needs.
3. An immigration policy tied to the unemployment rate in this country.
4. Penalties for employers and employees who violate the rules.
5. Sufficient internal enforcement to assure that no one feels that he can violate our borders with impunity.

MMPete said...


You're points are all so valid I don't know how anyone could argue with them. I would certainly like to see Dee's rebuttal to all of them.

Dee said...

You and I agree on most everything. Latino citizens support secure borders and ports, all of them, all points of entry. And we are all against terrorism.

As you said, we DO NOT support Mass Deportation. The points you made for legalization of those here sound like many I have recommended.

Dee said...

Your red herring, like most ANTIs, is to portray my view, the PRO view, as an Open Borders policy. That is wrong. I never said that. No PROs that I know of supports that.

We always say "Secure Borders with trained BPs." This is the 1st priority.

The whole issue/entire area of disagreement is "what to do about those here." As I have always said, most of those here have been here +5 years. ICE has reported that over the last 2 years, we have seen the lowest rate of new illegal entries in more than a decade. We also know that over 40% of those here are Visa overstays.

When you talk everify and enforcing current laws, you are talking about the deportation of those here, most who have been here +5 years who have established roots due to our broken policies.

In the past you (and NumbersUSA and others) have advocated enforcement and attrition resulting in overall Mass Deportation over 5 years. You recommend they take their children with them. So in all, we are talking about 20M people over 4 or 5 years which is about 5M people a year to total plus 20M people - the size of the state of New York.

Included with this Mass Deportation is the racial profiling of all Latinos and people of color who fit your stereotypical match -- ala Arpaio and his goons.

We Latino Citizens will NOT STAND FOR THAT!!

The time for change is now. Fix the broken immigration policies. Fix the broken and backlogged court system.

As Jools said, we can agree upon:

Overall, - secure all borders and ports.

1. A path to citizenship for those without a record.
2. First, registration of all illegal immigrants.
3. Then, a work permit if records are clean, but
4. 5 years until any social benefits just the same as current policies for immigrants from countries applying for citizenship.
5. Chain migration not allowed until citizenship granted and then very limited to immediate family.

ultima said...

Well, we could try this list of reforms

ultima said...

I am not interested in deporting 20 million people and, of course, that will never happen. But everyone who supports secure borders has to realize that there is no way to accomplish that goal without E-verify and some degree of internal internal enforcement that extends well beyond the hardened criminals. I don't know how extensive internal enforcement has to be to be effective as a deterrent but without it secure borders are an impossible dream. It follows that those who are opposed to E-Verify and some degree of internal enforcement are not really serious about border security. It is merely lip service.

If Dee was the head of the various agencies charged with border security, what actions would she take to achieve that goal? How would she measure success? What role would she see for internal security and penalties for employers and illegal alien employees? How would she deal with those who use fraudulent documents to obtain work? Where would she concentrate her resources and efforts? Would she require 6 months work on border infrastructure for all illegal aliens who are apprehended at the border and internally and longer terms for repeat offenders?

How would she deal with the minor children of aliens under a removal order?

In other words, if she is in favor of secure borders, she has to be able to show how she would effectively accomplish that goal not merely state that she supports secure borders!

This is an important topic that deserves the best ideas we can come up with. There is no doubt that there are some illegals who deserve special consideration because of their social integration and cultural and linguisic assimilation. There are some who have served honorably in our armed forces in harms way who should be given special consideration.

McCain may be right about the bottom line -- Country First! What is best for our country, its traditions, language,culture,flag,
etc. regardless of ones color, ethnicity, or place of origin.

I encourage all to come forward, here or at my blog referenced in the link above, with their best ideas from the point of view of one who is in charge and responsible for a successful outcome. That is the sole criterion!

Page Hits