Sunday, December 2, 2007

It´s not Illegal Immigration, It´s the Economy Stupid! The Global Economy!

Since the 1980´s, the rise of technology has allowed business to market products and services all over the world. Partnerships and alliances were established to support this Global Economy. Initially, the US dominated this economy through a variety of methods, including outsourcing technology jobs, establishing manufacturing businesses in foreign countries including maquiladoras in Latin Countries and importing products from foreign countries. In January, 1994, NAFTA passed and eliminated the majority of tariffs between products traded among the United States, Canada and Mexico.

As the US was on this artificial economic high, on January 16, 1998, following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, members of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC - the NeoCons), including Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Dick Cheney drafted an open letter to President Bill Clinton urging him to remove Saddam Hussein from power using U.S. diplomatic, political, and military power.

PNACs statement of Principles included: The American peace has proven itself peaceful, stable, and durable. It has, over the past decade, provided the geopolitical framework for widespread economic growth and the spread of American principles of liberty and democracy. Yet no moment in international politics can be frozen in time; even a global Pax Americana will not preserve itself. What we require is a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States’ global responsibilities.

After September 11, 2001, after the terrorists attacked, PNAC was primed and ready to move forward with their plans for War. By 2003, the country went along with their plans for War in Iraq. The war was financed through foreign debt.

After four years, America's cost for the war in Iraq reached $500 billion, more than the total for the Korean War and nearly as much as 12 years in Vietnam, adjusting for inflation. The ultimate cost could reach $1 trillion or more.

Meanwhile, America was feeling the impact of NAFTA. Manufacturing jobs in the US shrunk from 27% of total jobs to just 12%. Americans were being convinced, however, outsourcing these jobs did not impact them negatively. Instead new jobs were created including stock and financial speculation, house and condo flipping, all financed through foreign debt.

The US, which was once the largest creditor nation became the world’s largest debtor, increasingly dependent on eastern Asian nations such as China, Japan, and South Korea to meet its monthly interest payments.

In order to create the illusion of economic growth and to continue attracting enough foreign capital to meet the US’s interest payments on its debt, the US needed a method to expand their labor force. This method had to push wages down while increasing corporate profits up. Since Americans had a birth rate that barely replaced its death rate, growth in the labor force became dependent on a de facto open unskilled labor market policy. Why unskilled? As Bernanke has stated , “Higher incomes also tend to increase the demand for medical services so that, indirectly, higher incomes may also increase federal health expenditures.” So how can corporations expand while not increasing wages or granting basic health services to workers? Through non-English-speaking, easily exploitable, foreign, preferably semi-literate, deportable workers!

As Americans awakened to their massive debt, loss of manufacturing jobs and rise in the rate of illegal immigrants, their first reaction was anger. Various groups Framed these issues to their own agendas:

ANTI: Promote Enforcement of existing Immigration Laws while Mass Deporting 12M. Use terms such as Mexifornia, 3rd World Country to instill fear and anger in the masses, gaining more members for their cause. Encourage Workplace Raids, Operation Wet back, Racial Profiling while building more Detention Centers and Private Security firms patrolling urban areas and borders. Demonize any Humanitarian Groups with Hispanic terms like “La Raza” in their title to scare the American Public into believing some fake Reconquista theories. Increase membership into their groups (initially started in the 70´s) by instilling fear in the masses. Their message: "Fear and Loathing of Illegal Immigrants." Maximize effectiveness via the internet. Utilize Politically Correct terms to sell message. Utilize form faxes to deluge Congress and the Media. Hire DC Consulting firms with connections to Right Wing Pundits and Shock Jocks.

PRO: React to deplorable Detention Centers and Workplace Raids. React to Hostile Environment and terms such as Mexifornia, 3rd World Country or misrepresentations of various Humanitarian Groups. React to misrepresentation of marches or flags. Struggle to understand the true issues. Communicate the true issues via the internet. Gain alliances across the Nation. Form Groups. Follow the communications path similar to the ANTI communication path in gaining momentum for their cause realizing they are years behind the ANTIs in their mission. Vote in 2008.

Big Business, Administration: Maintain Status Quo or push for non passable Immigration Resolutions. Pass Resolutions but find ways not to implement solutions in order to temporarily appease the masses, yet maintain status quo. Reap as many gains possible through crony built prisons, detaining entire families since cost per head/per day maximizes profits. Continue instilling fear in the American Public so they will be easy to control and manipulate. Encourage passage of bills promoting crony owned Border Security and non-manned aircraft surveillance across all urban areas and borders.

None of the above Framing addresses the True Issues.

The real problem with the current situation runs broader and deeper than Immigration. Consider the issue of Foreign Policy Reform, which focuses on two sub-issues:

1. How has US foreign policy placed, or kept, in power oppressive governments which people are forced to flee?'

2. What role have international trade agreements had in creating or exacerbating people's urge to flee their homelands? If capital is going to freely cross borders, should people and labor be able to do so as well, going where globalization takes the jobs?
If the issue was presented in this way, solutions could be established for the overall problems. The solutions would lead to a solution involving the Secretary of State, conversations with Mexico and other Central American countries, and a close examination of the promises of NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO, the IMF and the World Bank to raise standards of living around the globe. It would inject into the globalization debate a concern for the migration and displacement of people, not simply globalization's promise for profits. This is not addressed when the issue is defined as the “immigration problem.” Bush's “comprehensive solution” does not address any of these concerns. The immigration problem, in this light, is actually a Global Economy problem.
References:
. Wikipedia: Global Economy, Pax Americana, PNAC, NAFTA
. 2007 Debate – MATT Members
. The Framing of Immigration

73 comments:

Liquidmicro said...

Our Gov't and Big Business is for Globalization. The American Citizen sees globalization as a threat to our standards of living. By allowing the movement of free migration to follow the work, these migrants tend to displace prior workers by working for less monies and less to no benefits, thus increasing the profit of big business for which our Gov't is in charge of the ad campaigns to change our minds.

Liquidmicro said...

With this article, what are your views, or are we left to assume that you are for world globalization since you are for the migrants?

Lupita said...

The American Citizen sees globalization as a threat to our standards of living

The question is, what is more threatening, that or the collapse of the empire?

Choices, choices...

Not that it is much of a choice for The American Citizen since neither option - the closing of the open labor market or the dismantling of the empire - is touched with a ten foot pole by your Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Dum "democracy".

Liquidmicro said...

More, Doom and Gloom, I see it as who is going crumble faster, the USA or China. In either case the American Citizen is effected.

Your claim of the collapse of an empire is seen by me as an Economic Recession.

Dee said...

Liquid,
My view is we need to communicate the issues to the people and let the people make an informed choice.

I believe once everyone understands the issues, they will move to the PRO side. They will recognize this is not an Immigration issue, rather an issue of Global Economics. We need to relook at NAFTA and CAFTA. We need to meet with Mexico, Canada and other governments to discuss our concern about migration and the displacement of people. Richardson said:
1. Secure the Border by Hiring and Training Enough Patrol Guards to Cover the Entire Border
We must more than double the number of guards, and provide them with the best surveillance technology available.

2. Establish a Reasonable Path to Legalization for Many of Those Who are Already Here
This is not amnesty, but is a tough but fair opportunity for legalization and the possibility of citizenship. Most of the illegal workers in the country are hard-working, law abiding people simply pursuing the American Dream. Those who pass a background check, learn English, pay back taxes and fines for being here illegally get the opportunity for legal status. Those that don't must leave.

3. Crack Down on Immigration Fraud and Illegal Workers
We should offer informant visas and cash rewards for aliens who provide law enforcement with credible information on human traffickers and document forgers. As President, I would establish a fraudulent documents task force to constantly update law enforcement and border officials on the latest fraudulent documents being marketed for entry into the United States. In addition, I believe we must improve identification documentation of immigrant workers.

4. Eliminate One of the Prime Attractions for Illegal Workers
We must crack down on employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants and enforce the laws already on the books. After establishing a national ID system, employers will have no excuses.

5. Work in Partnership with the Mexican Government and Nations Throughout Latin America
Mexico is our friend and a major trading partner but they must take action to help reduce the northward flow of illegal immigrants and illegal drugs. We must improve border infrastructure to streamline the movement of goods through the free-trade zones along the border, revitalizing communities on both sides of the border and creating much-needed jobs. The Secretary General of the Organization of American States appointed me as a special envoy to Latin American to promote initiatives that focus on economic development and immigration. Through intensive diplomacy and face-to-face dialogue we must demonstrate to OAS member states that they have an equal responsibility to help solve the immigration problem.

Throughout my career I have worked closely and effectively with Mexico on issues such as border security, trade, and education. As Governor I convinced the Mexican government to bulldoze a section of the border town of Las Chepas, where abandoned buildings had become staging points for bringing illegal immigrants and drugs into the US. I also met with President Calderon to discuss how the United States and Mexico can work together to solve the problems associated with illegal immigration. I don't need to learn about the problems or to figure out how to get things done. I've done it.

6.Increase the Number of Legal Immigrants Allowed Into the US Each Year
The number of guest workers allowed at any one time must be based upon the needs of the US economy. Our goal must be to meet demand for jobs that go unfilled by American citizens, and no more.

Dee said...

Richardson´s 5. is the most important!

5. Work in Partnership with the Mexican Government and Nations Throughout Latin America
Mexico is our friend and a major trading partner but they must take action to help reduce the northward flow of illegal immigrants and illegal drugs. We must improve border infrastructure to streamline the movement of goods through the free-trade zones along the border, revitalizing communities on both sides of the border and creating much-needed jobs.

Dee said...

But to Lupita´s point, I don´t know if we Americans can ever come to agreement on this. Most people don´t even want to admit this is about the Glogal Economy, not Immigration.

Whether you want to admit this or not, your side has made this a Race issue. Most of your side has demonized illegal immigrants and Hispanics so much they will not be satisfied until they drive all 12M out, have a thousand more crony owned detention centers built and Blackwater and their airships hovering across the southern border in a new version of 1984.

Dee said...

I predict, if you side continues as it has, we will see a stop to illegal immigration.

And:
. We will be in a Recession-Depression.
. The $ will totally deflate and the Euro will replace it as the standard.
. Jobs here will dry up.
. There will be no one to care for the retired Boomers.
. More Detention Centers.
. Blackwater patrolling the border in their airships over every ethnic neighborhood.
. Many minorities will leave the country since the raging racists will continue to drive for racial cleansing.
. Bin Laden, Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Putin will throw a party.

Lupita said...

Eliminate One of the Prime Attractions for Illegal Workers

Which are overvalued dollars and an artificially "vibrant" economy sustained by credit.

International speculators are taking care of that.

Lupita said...

Bin Laden, Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Putin will throw a party.

They already are. The empire is crumbling as we type.

Liquidmicro said...

One can see it from the top down , the other can see it from the bottom up, yet both see the same things but have very different opinions about the outcome.

A recession can happen either way, 'Illegal Immigration' has no effect on it.

The Dollar is already deflating, again, not due to 'Illegal Immigration'.

Jobs have already begun to dry up, this can be blamed on 'Illegal Immigration' and over populated workforce - look to the housing/construction sector.

Detention centers may be needed already as we already have criminals being released early do to overcrowding.

Black Water on the border may , in the long run, be cheaper for our Gov't. and taxpayers. Lawsuits could then be directed at a company/corporation, The BP is in effect a corporation of the Gov't. BP already has unmanned drones patrolling the border, again no different then what Black Water would be doing.

The only person making this a racial issue is the Latino Community, I think we should undo the 'Civil Rights' laws and be rid of revers racism altogether.

As Lupita states: Bin Laden, Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Putin will throw a party. They already are.

Liquidmicro said...

I think you have watched the Terminator one time to many and are now fixed upon the Matrix.

Dee said...

What makes this a racial issues are the very items you mentioned:

1. Crony Owned Detention Rape Centers
2. Knowingly allowing a crony with a deplorable record to hover over in their un manned patrol ships
3. Bringing back the Racial Profiling Operation Wet Back

You are ok with this. Obviously you don´t get it.

Try this:
. Put your mother in one of these Rape Centers. Do it for a week. Let´s see what happens.
. Let your mother be rounded up in another Operation Wet back

Let´s see how you feel when it happens to your mom. Are you ok with it? Maybe you will begin to understand how racist and deplorable this is.

Dee said...

Oh, I know your answer.

My mother isn´t Mexican looking so you can´t do that to my mother.

How telling!

Lupita said...

The only person making this a racial issue is the Latino Community

Dee does not a community make, nor do the Gringos of Mecha for that matter, much less a Latin one.

Dee is just one more isolated and deluded faux ethnic suburbanite who plays a nice game of competitive victimhood with her counterpart - those who get hysterical when they hear Spanish, see trash, pay for gas, or anything else that reminds them that their stint as carefree, bourgeois consumers is nearing an end.

Dee said...

I´ve been studying a link Ulty provided.

In part, here is what it says:
. The dollar's dominance holds great appeal for Americans. They can continuously print green bills and sell them abroad without driving up inflation in their own country. They can go into debt to pay for things like the Iraq war or enjoy the benefits of tax cuts. This attitude has led to a record US national debt of $5 trillion.

At the same time, Americans have enjoyed the luxury of consuming more than they produce. The balance of trade deficit has been growing for years -- from roughly $80 billion in 1990 to a projected level of more than $700 billion in 2007. This is more than 5 percent of the country's GDP.

. The whole thing only works because a special system of giving and taking has developed, a mechanism that flies in the face of every economic theory. For years, huge amounts of capital have been flowing from poorer emerging economies into the United States, the richest nation on earth. This influx of foreign capital, most of it coming from the Far East, amounts to roughly $2 billion a day.

Dee said...

Lupita,
You forget you called me a Proletariat. I come from very humble beginnings. A migrant worker for years.

Liquidmicro said...

Now I know why you think so highly of Ol'Hillary, you both play the victim card, yet claim to be able to play with the big boys.

Your arguments are, for lack of a better word, pathetic. Trying answering the questions posed with reasonable discourse instead of your victomhood of racial injustice.

Dee said...

The handwriting is on the wall. The Euro will become the standard. The dollar is done.

More from Ulty´s link:
The central bank in Beijing, for example, has accumulated enormous hard currency reserves from the country's export business. China holds the astonishing sum of more than $1.4 trillion in its reserves. The Chinese have invested most of their money in US Treasury Bills, a low-risk but also relatively low-return investment. In doing so, they have kept the dollar high and their own currency low, ensuring that their exports remain competitive.

While Asia finances America's excessive consumer spending, the Americans buy Asia's cheap T-shirts, cars and flat-screen TVs. "Getting this much into debt while at the same time enjoying returns on long-term government bonds of less than 5 percent -- I'd call it the biggest free lunch in modern economic history," says Harvard historian Niall Ferguson, referring to the audacity with which the Americans take advantage of their privileges as holders of the world's reserve currency.

Rarely has the world economy been so out of whack or have global imbalances been greater. The Americans were the world's financiers for years. Today they are its biggest borrowers, while the Asians serve as America's bank.

It's obvious that this does not bode well for the long term. For years, economists and politicians have been warning against an impending crash. Now it seems that the time is ripe for this to happen.

The dollar's plunge in the last 10 weeks is a sign that America's pact with East Asia has become fragile. The Asians have become far less willing to buy dollars and Treasury bills. As the countries of the Far East become increasingly impatient with the United States, they have begun shifting their reserves to euros.

dianne said...

"If capital is going to freely cross borders, should people and labor be able to do so as well, going where globalization takes the jobs?"

Dee, I can hardly think of anything more inflammatory to the immigration debate than what you suggested above. The very thought that our country would lose its sovereignty is enough to start a revolution. Do you really believe we should just throw open the borders? This is what has been dubbed conspiracy theories (the North American Union, Super Highway, etc.)

I hope that day never comes

Dee said...

The problem you have Liquid is you refuse to acknowledge your own wrongdoings.

Why do you deem it ok to have these deplorable Detention Centers? Why does your side use derogatory terms like Mexifornia? 3rd world country for Hispanic Neighborhoods?

Why do you not demonize Swift and other Big Business companies for exploiting workers and bringing them into the country, allowing not to spend 1 day in prison? I know your weak argument: "What am I supposed to do, ask the workers for credentials?"

Stop calling this an illegal immigration issue. The issue is the Global Economy! Resolve this and the problem is solved!

Dee said...

Now when are you going to put your mother in a detention center for a week to test the system if there is nothing wrong with it?

Dee said...

Dianne,
The quote below is a direct quote form Ulty´s link.
It is reality NOW.


My quote from Ulty´s link:
For years, huge amounts of capital have been flowing from poorer emerging economies into the United States, the richest nation on earth. This influx of foreign capital, most of it coming from the Far East, amounts to roughly $2 billion a day.

Liquidmicro said...

Redact the 'Civil Rights' Laws, this will allow me to question persons about there legal status.

Is one account of rape enough to deem the detention centers deplorable? If so, how about the BP agent accused of this recently, is this enoough to abolish the BP?

Again you are making all ANTI's 'Guilty by Association', based on the ramblings of others. Back to your old tasteless tactics I see.

I prefer to start the removal process from both ends, top and bottom. Top being, NAFTA, CAFTA, and the various other trade agreements. The Bottom, repatriation of 'Illegal Immigrants', securing the border, going after employers of 'illegals'.

Swift and others, as stated on other posts, use the laws to there advantage, they have found the loop holes and they exploit them. Unlike your example of RCI and Insolia, who is coming up this week for his crimes, that are caught and rightfully so. Laws need to be enacted that mandate specific requirements for work authorization, such as E-Verify and SS No-Match letters. Close the loop holes and this will also rid 'Illegal Immigration'.

Liquidmicro said...

Why put my mother there, I will go myself. Besides, when was your mother there, or for that matter a member of your family, other than the one that supposedly works there?

Your argument for this is still, pathetic. There is only one known case, Escalante vs. Corrections Corp. of America, of rape of a detained immigrant.

dianne said...

Dee, I was not referring to the trade agreements (bad as they are). I was referring to eliminating our borders to PEOPLE. Of course, that is basically what we've done by default of not securing them. Do you recall the recent uproard over trucks crossing our border? Imagine the uproar over opening the borders to anybody who wants to cross them. People would take up arms, Dee, and it would be ugly. It would be worse than the civil war. I can't even imagine.

dianne said...

I will have to say this in support of Dee. Everybody knows there are illegals who are being exploited. Some are brought in by smugglers and held like slaves. This is done in coercion with employers who accept them. Illegals should not be held responsible for this. This is human trafficing, a high crime, and must be stopped..not with fines but with hard prison time !

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

The handwriting is on the wall. The Euro will become the standard. The dollar is done.

I'm already seeing a return on my properties and monies there. Like Lupita with her Gold.

Liquidmicro said...

Dianne, everybody would agree that Human Trafficking is wrong, and that the persons responsible for it should be sent to prison, however Dee is using this ploy that Insolia, at the Bianco plants, that the 'Illegal Immigrants' that were caught up in the raids were held as human slaves and brought in by traffickers, yet there is no evidence at all, anywhere, stating that. Be careful in listening to what Dee says, she uses words that incite the wrong understanding, and when researched, show her to be incorrect.

Lupita said...

You forget you called me a Proletariat.

I have always called you bourgeois.

I come from very humble beginnings. A migrant worker for years.

That is all in the past. You are now a suburbanite playing victim. Terrorists, drunk illegals at the wheel, detention centers, whatever, they are all projections of soccer-mom subliminal fear of losing her barren McMansion and trips to the mall.

Lupita said...

People would take up arms, Dee, and it would be ugly. It would be worse than the civil war. I can't even imagine.

Americans have already sent their manufacturing abroad, incurred in a $9 trillion debt, debased their currency, invaded and destroyed whole nations under spurious suspicions, and become the most despised nation on Earth on top of a nation of sharecroppers, and not a blip was heard from the masses. What makes you think that opening the border to labor, which has already been done, by the way, would elicit a response.

Forget it. You are going down without as much as a whimper.

ultima said...

This is an interesting discussion some of which I can agree with. However, I think you should hold that phone call to the pope asking him to canonize the so-called pro-illegal forces.

dianne said...

lupita..forgive me as I do not know you, but given your choice of words such as "your ... democracy", you don't sound American. Where is your viewpoint coming from?

Dee said...

Dianne,
While I am sure Lupita will respond to you, just to help you out here.

Ultima, Liquid, Lupita and I used to post on a discussion board comprised of ANTIs and PROs. They closed the board down last summer.

During the summer both Ultima and I created our own blogs. Ultys is ANTI and mine is PRO. Liquid is Pro.

Lupita was neither PRO nor ANTI. She is a Mexican citizen here in the US. At the time, she had overstayed her Visa. We used to tease your about her illegal immigrant status.

She is a schoolteacher. She is very intelligent. She is also very tough on us. She has very strong opinions and a very global (?) perspective.

She gives me and many of us a hard time. She will probably give you a rough time too but don´t take it too personally.

Even though she and I often disagree and sometimes fight, I like her brain. She adds so much to the discussion and makes me think, as do Ulty and Liquid.

You bring another dimension to our discussion. You are neither PRO nor ANTI but are being influenced by the media so you tend to lean ANTI.

Personally, I think bringing all of these perspectives to the discussion adds interest and expands all of our knowledge base.

Lupita said...

The "your" can be explained by the fact that I am Mexican, that is, the viewpoint of an outsider.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee, I am no PRO, you of all people should know that.

Dee said...

Just seeing how alert you are Liquid. LOL

patriot said...

dee is back again repeating the same old lies but trying to put a new twist on them. I have never in my life seen anyone repeat the same old things over and over again no matter how many times they have been disputed.

dee is back with her tunnel vision too. No thought as to how uncontrolled population growth is and will be affecting our country in the future. She wants an economy that bloats like a big air ballon with no thought to any of the above or what will happen when it pops. Sorry, but money isn't everything to me and most sane citizens would choose a smaller economy to fit a more sensible and smaller population.

The global economy argument is just another way of taking away our soviergnty as a nation and force us to throw open our borders to anyone and in any number to come here without any immmigration laws. In short any citizen that subscribes to this is a fifth columnist with no love or loyalty towards this country.

Diane, were the illegals dragged across our borders? I agree that our employers are to blame for much of this but the illegals came willingly knowing full well they were violating our laws. If they were exploited, they only have themselves to blame. They could easily go back across the border and therefore not be exploited anymore. They are just as guilty as the employers in this whole illegal immigration mess.

Dee said...

Pat,
Please re read the post.
Please try to understand.

jer999 said...

Since everyone seems to agree that America is hugely in debt.....
why dont we start by sending back to Mexico all of those that invaded this country and cost America taxpayers, 1.3 trillion for supporting these illegals...
We have got to stop supporting all of the unfortunates in the world...It is not our responsibility.!!!

Mexico ,per capita , is the 4th richest country in the World, let Mexicans go home and protest....Why at our expense..???

This is not reasonable to have America pay,pay,pay....

Because Mexico is corrupt, you want us to take the burden off the illegals, because in Mexico they would suffer terrible consequences for protesting....

Fix your own nest instead of invading others...!!!

dianne said...

Oh I see Dee. Thanks for the backgrounder on Lupita.

This will be interesting.

Have a nice evening, all.

patriot said...

Why should I re-read your posts, dee? It's the same old nonsense that you keep repeating over and over. You are the one that refuses to understand a loyal American's point of view.

Lupita said...

We have got to stop supporting all of the unfortunates in the world...It is not our responsibility.!!!

As a matter of fact, capital flows from the poor countries to the rich. The US, the main recipient of poor people's money, receives $2 billion per day. Furthermore, the US does not support the unfortunates, just pro-business 3rd world puppet regimes. It has also done an excellent job of destroying whole nations under false pretenses, creating millions of unfortunates.

in Mexico they would suffer terrible consequences for protesting

Mexico is a democracy and people protest every day. Not that it matters, mind you, but people are not massacred on the streets as you seem to believe.

If you oppose your country's open labor market, just say so. There is no need to make a fool of yourself with your competitive nationalism based on propaganda.

ultima said...

ANTI: Promote the rule of law including existing immigration laws; use mismatch/duplicate use letters to identify and register illegal aliens; deport those for whom there is no demonstrated need or who have criminal records of any kind; allow involuntary self-deportation at the miscreants own expense; require minor children to accompany their deported parents; add more immigration judges to detention centers; render a decision within 24 hours of apprehension; limit appeals to one week from date of decision; make daily transports of deported illegals to the border; use factual terms such as Mexifornia, 3rd World Country to inform the public before it is too late; encourage workplace raids, expeditious apprehension, detention and deportation as appropriate; use racial profiling carefully and sparingly with the cooperation of the Hispanic community; build whatever number of detention centers are needed under an expedited process plan; complete physical improvements at the border as soon as possible; deport enough illegals to create a significant disincentive for illegal entry; jail repeat offenders and put them to work on the border improvements; fine and/or jail employers of illegal; allow private enterprises to bid on apprehension, detention, transportation and deportation contracts with all costs and a profit to be recovered from employers, the illegals their families or their homeland governments; private enterprise employees to be carefully trained and supervised by ICE; National Guard deployments at the border with full authority to apprehend and detain illegals; reduce foreign aid for any country that does not cooperate in securing the borders and discouraging border violations; if necessary tax remittances to recover the costs of apprehension, detention and deportation; require employers to provide family health care coverage for all foreign employees; provide community grants to enable free courses in English; Official English; modify the 14th amendment to prevent abuse; background and health checks for illegals who qualify for a guest worker program; set up recruiting offices south and north of the borders to allow employers to recruit guest workers;
limit a pathway to permanent residency and citizenship to those who enter our country legally; withhold birthright citizenship until the individual reaches his majority and passes the same test as required for naturalization; no dual citizenship or dual allegiance; give preference to English-speaking immigration applicants; expose disloyalty and reconquista separatism in groups like MEChA, La Raza, Chicano Studies departments to inform the American Public about the threats these organizations represent; act as modern day Paul Reveres to alert the public to the long term effect of present policies and the lack of vigorous immigration law enforcement; treat all citizens with patience and understanding while showing them the error of their ways in supporting illegal aliens; organize to make sure the issues and pending legislation are understood and that there is a convenient way to contact one's representatives in congress as required for good citizenship; avoid PC; read, listen and think about the issues and decide what is in the national interest and national sovereignty.

ultima said...

PRO: La Hermandad de ls Raza; oppose the rule of law and any attempts to enforce the law through mismatch letters and workplace raids; make common cause with cheap labor and immigration lobbyists; deny ICE the tools needed to apprehend and deport illegal aliens; indulge in hyperbole using words like "deplorable", "inhumane" and "lack of compassion" to give precedence to illegal aliens and their governments; opposed to the national interest and national sovereignty; favor open borders but attempt to camouflage this view by supporting only ineffective border security and internal enforcement measures; blanket criticism of vital detention centers and workplace raids; create a hostile environment by the above actions or positions; fail to understand the facts about Mexifornia, 3rd World Countries, and the true objectives of various racist groups like MEChA and La Raza; are in a deep state of denial regarding the long term effects of the policies they support; myopic; fail to understand the meaning of marches and foreign flags and fail to understand the true issues. Communicate their biases via the internet; form fifth column groups and alliances; work for the overthrow of our government and favor any measures to accelerate our descent into Mexico Norte with all of the corruption, crime and poverty of the homeland; have no understanding of the limit of natural resources; see no reason to curtail population growth because they believe that will hasten Mexico Norte; exhibit various degrees of disloyalty to their country by favoring the interests of illegal aliens and their homeland governments that profit by dumping their poor and needy in our backyard; are content to have a permanent underclass in this country consisting of illiterate, illegal aliens sleeping 11 to a trailer or renting a bed for only 12 hours; don't believe in zoning regulations; favor a bi-lingual America eventually becoming mono-lingual in Spanish; pretend to support secure borders but would deny the border patrol and ICE the necessary facilities, staffing, physical barriers, and infrastructure needed to accomplish that goal; believe they should be canonized for their perfidy and disloyalty; favor terms like racism, nativism, and bigotry when they have no substantive arguments; don't know or don't care about the bad habits Mexicans bring to this country;invoke an atmosphere of tolerance and humanity as an excuse to destroy the rule of law and the national unity that helped us become a nation in the first place.

Dee said...

Ultima,

You can only use your PRO title recommendation if you use this appropriate
ANTI title recommendation:
die Bruderschaft der weißen Vorherrschaft

Ulty´s PRO Title Recommendation:
PRO: La Hermandad de ls Raza

Dee said...

ANTI: die Bruderschaft der weißen Vorherrschaft

. Promote Enforcement of existing Immigration Laws while Mass Deporting 12M. Use terms such as Mexifornia, 3rd World Country to instill fear and anger in the masses, gaining more members for their cause. Encourage Workplace Raids, Operation Wet back, Racial Profiling while building more Detention Centers and Private Security firms patrolling urban areas and borders. Demonize any Humanitarian Groups with Hispanic terms like “La Raza” in their title to scare the American Public into believing some fake Reconquista theories. Increase membership into their groups (initially started in the 70´s) by instilling fear in the masses. Their message: "Fear and Loathing of Illegal Immigrants." Maximize effectiveness via the internet. Utilize Politically Correct terms to sell message. Utilize form faxes to deluge Congress and the Media. Hire DC Consulting firms with connections to Right Wing Pundits and Shock Jocks.

(At least this one is VERY FACTUAL)

Dee said...

An Accurate View of PROs:

. Support Secure Borders by Trained BPs
. Support Employer Sanctions particularly for Exploiting Employers
. Bring the 12M here out of the shadows and legalize them via a Guest Worker program and allow all qualifying a path to earned citizenship. (deporting all felonious criminals)
. Close down Detention Centers and Family Detention Centers particularly those cited for abuses.
. Do not use Blackwater Contractors for any time on homeland surveillance, patrolling or anything to do with border or homeland security.

patriot said...

You nailed it, Ultima!

Anonymous said...

You nailed it Ms. Dee.

I wonder if Patriot knows what this means. Ha Ha!

ANTI: die Bruderschaft der weißen Vorherrschaft

patriot said...

anon, what does white supremacy have to do with wanting our immigration laws enforced and our borders secured? 80% of Americans want that.

ultima said...

"An Accurate View of PROs:

. Support Secure Borders by Trained BPs (How many with what rules of engagement?)
. Support Employer Sanctions particularly for Exploiting Employers (Using what tools to identify illegals, mismatch letters, employer raids. etc.)
. Bring the 12M here out of the shadows and legalize them via a Guest Worker program and allow all qualifying a path to earned citizenship. (deporting all felonious criminals) (In a word, AMNESTY!!!)
. Close down Detention Centers and Family Detention Centers particularly those cited for abuses. (No, more are needed to have any effective deportation program; fine those who abuse detainees)
. Do not use Blackwater Contractors for any time on homeland surveillance, patrolling or anything to do with border or homeland security. (Use private enterprise to do the job of apprehension, detention and deportation at no cost to the government after training and initial supervision by ICE)

The original plan above shows the true colors of the Pro-illegals -- open border because the BP can't do it all; amnesty because we don't mind those who violate our borders; no private enterprise because they might actually do the job quickly and efficiently. Yep, we know you now for sure.

ultima said...

Actually I agree with parts of this post. I am opposed to NAFTA, CAFTA, excessive national debt, the dismantling of America's manufacturing capability,etc. This does not in any way lessen my concern about the illegal aliens who are bent on taking over our country and converting it to Mexico Norte. Nor does it lessen my surprise that both are aided and abetted by folks who claim to be loyal US citizens. Can't be true!

ultima said...

It's illegal immigration, fellow travelers, and globalization in that order, stupid!

Dee said...

Well Ultima,
I am glad you are finally seeing the light.
Thank you!

ultima said...

"The "your" can be explained by the fact that I am Mexican, that is, the viewpoint of an outsider."

Every day that Lupita remains in this country she becomes closer to the bourgeoisie she disdains. She has submitted papers for permanent residency and perhaps a pathway to citizenship but was originally an illegal alien, socialist-Marxist. She lives off the the taxes or other contributions of the bourgeoisie who she sees as the antithesis of the working class - proletariat. Any work you don't do with your hands, like teaching, makes you a member of the bourgeoisie. Welcome to the bourgeoisie, Lupita querida.

ultima said...

"Why do you deem it ok to have these deplorable Detention Centers?"

Detention Centers and Prisons are necessary in an imperfect world. If you think they are rape centers, perhaps we should nuke Dallas because of the number of rapes that occur there every year. Sure let's turn them all loose criminals, illegal aliens,etc. I'm sure that will be a big boost for our economy.

ultima said...

"I am glad you are finally seeing the light."

I don't think it is your light. After all you want to ignore the first two: illegal aliens and fellow travelers.

I have been opposed to NAFTA, CAFTA, NAU from the beginning of time. I have suggested Mexican trailers should unhitched at the border and re-hitched to American tractors. I would feel safer from several points of view.

ultima said...

"die Bruderschaft der weißen Vorherrschaft"

At least we can say by their presence here that the illegal aliens prefer the superior economy, government and civilizaton that resulted from der weissen Vorherrschaft". Where would they go if Spanish conquerors had prevailed in all of North America? They would have no place to go, would they? They would have to do as the Europeans did, get in their ships and sail to the ends of the earth searching for a new land.

Of course, once they get here and get brainwashed by harebrained professors of Chicano Studies they begin to think more of La Hermandad de la Raza. They want to move on to that day when Mexico Norte will have removed all of the progressive and brilliant accomplishments of the educated Europeans who founded, settled and developed this country.

How many Nobel prizes have been won by that other culture? This might be a good objective measure of der Weissen Vorherrschaft.

Sorry Anon, no cigar!

Dee said...

Ulty,
I would never advocate violence as your side does.

They shout "USA" as the stormfront neighborhoods with their Blackwater tactics.

Most True Americans will not put up with these MM tactics for long.


Ulty said:
"perhaps we should nuke Dallas "

Dee said...

Who established the Nobel Prize but the Northern Europeans. Not a viable measure of success Dear Ulty.

patriot said...

dee, two can play the same game. What about those reconquistas carrying signs and shouting that Whites should go back to Europe and that we are here illegally? And Viva Mexico and Viva La Raza?

Violence? Are you bringing up some nut cases on the anti side again? They are not of the majority of anti's. I could bring up some violence on the pro side too. Why do you continue to do this, dee? Why do you bring up incidents that do not represent the norm of the anti's? How many times are you going to keep going down this road over and over and over and over and over and over....?

Liquidmicro said...

Don't forget the students who shouted down the MM meeting at the NE college. No, not the PRO side shutting down free speech. Something else Dee fails to acknowledge. Or how about the recent college debate in S, California, where students did the same, again Dee's PRO side.

patriot said...

Here you go, dee. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM
Notice the Mexican flags. Notice the "Europeans go home" signs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ivs0mz1ok
Hear them screaming...."Whose streets......Our Streets"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uhua9tnZNo
Illegals take down US flag and put up Mexican flag during protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCVUot-hBo

Liquidmicro said...

You may not advocate violence on your side Dee, however neither do you condemn it, or for that matter acknowledge it.

patriot said...

Or how about the pro side hitting an elderly white woman over the head with a full water bottle in Baldwin Park, Ca. Or how about those two Hispanic girls that beat up a White girl on a school bus. Or how about in Maywood, Ca where a White woman was beat up by the pro side, anti vehicles vandalized and the American flag taken down from the P.O. building and the Mexican flag hoisted up in it's place? Want more dee? I have plenty of them.

Dee said...

Pat,
You always post that phony AZ Patrol video. It is a composite and it is ridiculous.

Dee said...

An Accurate View of PROs:

. Support Secure Borders by Trained BPs
. Support Employer Sanctions particularly for Exploiting Employers
. Bring the 12M here out of the shadows and legalize them via a Guest Worker program and allow all qualifying a path to earned citizenship. (deporting all felonious criminals)
. Close down Detention Centers and Family Detention Centers particularly those cited for abuses.
. Do not use Blackwater Contractors for any time on homeland surveillance, patrolling or anything to do with border or homeland security.

patriot said...

Sure thing, dee. I knew you would be in denial. Are you denying all of the videos I provided for you? What about those acts of violence that I posted such as the school bus incident, Maywood, Baldwin Park. They happened dee! Acts of violence on the pro side.

Stop bringing up fringe groups and so-called acts of violence on the anti side and I won't feel the need to defend our side with the same type of behavior on the pro side. In short, stop being a hypocrite, dee and stick to debating with those of us who are not violent nor radicals.

patriot said...

An accurate view of pros:

. Pretend to want border security but handcuff our government from doing so such as building the much needed fence to assist the BP. Scream racial profiling on internal enforcement.

. Support employer sanctions just as long as the employers are punished but not the illegal workers. Instead reward them with legalization, a guest workers status and a path to citizenship.

. Close down detention centers so that we have no where to put the illegal aliens and therefore we will have to release them and let them disappear into our country again because we know they won't appear for any hearings.

. Do not use Blackwater because of some rumored problems even if those problems can be corrected. In short, create a stumbling block whenever our goverment wants to secure our border with any kind of personnel at the border.

. Constantly use the race card and demonize any American who opposes illegal immigration and wants REAL border security and internal enforcement of our immigration laws. This can be achieved by insisting that all anti's are violent, members of radical groups or support them and just hate brown Hispanics both illegal and legal. Don't let them get away with the rule of law argument and claim that they are all being led by the media and certain leaders of the anti movement as their brains are mush and they can't think for themselves.

ultima said...

"Who established the Nobel Prize but the Northern Europeans. Not a viable measure of success Dear Ulty."

Now most would agree that's pretty much of a racist statement. The prize was established by Alfred Nobel out of his profits from his invention of dynamite. The by-laws of the prize clearly indicate the criteria for its award and race is not one of them as Dee well-knows. So its actually a very good measure of success. You'll have to do much better if you expect anyone to accept your line of reasoning on the Nobel prize. Shame on you Dee.

Albert Schweitzer is turning over in his grave.

ultima said...

"perhaps we should nuke Dallas "

And you took that seriously? You've lost your marbles.

ultima said...

"I would never advocate violence as your side does."

You can speak for yourself on this issue but you cannot speak for my side. Read Prof Tuxillo's comment again. I believe it said something like "by any means necessary", certainly implying violence if necessary. He's not on my side so he must be on yours.

I tried to inject a little humor into the conversation about one alleged rape in a detention center vs the much larger number that actually occur in Dallas to show how ridiculous your hyperbole about the detention centers really is. Actually, Lupita made that point before I did. Your gross exaggerations do your cause no good.

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