Thursday, May 15, 2008

ANTIs throwing Hissy Fit over Feinstein´s Needed Farm Worker Bill

The ANTI sites are in an uproar over the AgJobs Bill Dianne Feinstein has tagged on to an Iraq spending bill which is destined for the Senate Floor next week. Roy Beck from NumbersUSA, alipac and other sites are having their robotic ANTI followers mass sending pre-written rage email, free faxes and scripted phone calls to the beleaguered members of Congress. Hopefully Congress will understand these blind sheep do not represent the vast majority of Americans who are tired of spending outrageous amounts of $$ for fruit and vegetables and are actually looking for some relief to the overpricing and gas gouging currently taxing their pocketbooks! Check out some of the ANTI sites and read their "Hissy Fits" over the possibility of this bill passing and saving Citizens millions in future grocery bills.
Now, Read the SCOOP on what Sen. Feinstein is actually trying to accomplish:
OC Register Reports: Thursday, May 15, 2008
Determined to address an emergency situation in the U.S. agriculture industry, Senator Dianne Feinstein persuaded her colleagues on the Appropriations Committee today to add a scaled-down version of her Ag Jobs bill to the Iraq spending bill destined for the Senate floor. "We need this legislation because in the last year 13,280 farms in the United States have shut down, and others have moved their operation to Mexico'' between 2006 and 2007, Feinstein, D-Calif., said at the Appropriations panel meeting to vote on the Iraq bill. Of the closed farms, 1,000 were in California. The committee approved her measure by a 17-12 vote.
The provision Feinstein hopes can survive a Senate floor vote and get approved by House members as well falls short of the permanent fix she had hoped to provide for an industry she says is in crisis because of an acute labor shortage. Under today's amendment, farm workers who have worked in agriculture within the past four years will be able to work legally for growers for five years. The measure doesn't include any path to legal status or citizenship...
This more modest approach is likely to draw support, especially from lawmakers who don't want to give any permanent status to immigrants who entered the country illegally or who overstayed their visas.
But there is a determined group of senators and House members who oppose any benefits for people who broke immigration law and say there wouldn't be a labor shortage if growers paid higher wages. And it's likely that those lawmakers might try and add enforcement provisions to the bill that would be objected to by members who might otherwise approve of the agriculture provisions. Some immigration advocates have also expressed concern that if individual immigration issues are dealt with separately, it will make it harder to get a broad comprehensive bill passed. But Michele Waslin, senior policy analyst for the Immigration Policy Center, a pro-immigration think tank, said agriculture "has always been its own issue. I think Feinstein is showing us there is an appetite for balanced reform. Employers need workers and it just makes sense at this point in time."

57 comments:

Liquidmicro said...

There is already a workable Farm Worker Bill, its called the H-2A Visa. It protects the migrants from exploitation from the employers. What is being proposed by Feinstein is removing any and all protections for the value of cheap labor. You condone this??? Even your PRO side doesn't want this bill to pass.

""Let's be clear from the start about what we're discussing," the Senate's senior Democrat, Robert Byrd of West Virginia, declared during earlier debate. "It is amnesty for aliens employed unlawfully in the agricultural sector, and it is amnesty for the businesses that hire and exploit them as cheap labor.""


What about North Carolina:
North Carolina growers, for example, have set up a North Carolina Growers Association that meets all of the AG labor needs through local workers and through legal foreign workers brought through the H-2A visa which ensures that the guest workers go home. Why shouldn’t California growers play by the same rules as law-abiding farmers in other states?

Liquidmicro said...

" It would enable upward of 1.5 million farm workers now in this country illegally to obtain what has been dubbed a "blue card." This would grant temporary legal status, if the immigrants could prove they had worked in agriculture a certain length of time. If they continued to work in farming for several more years, they eventually could gain permanent legal U.S. residency.

The package also streamlines an existing foreign guest-worker program that many U.S. farmers shun as being inefficient and cumbersome."

Dee said...

Lets be clear on why we should NEVER listen to the racist you are quoting, Robert Byrd:

In 1942, 24-year-old Byrd joined the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), whose parades in Matoaka, West Virginia, he had witnessed in his childhood. He was unanimously elected Exalted Cyclops, or leader, of his local chapter.[4]

Byrd, in his autobiography, attributed the beginnings of his political career to this incident, although he lamented that they involved the Klan. According to Byrd's recollection, a KKK official Joel L. Baskin told him "You have a talent for leadership, Bob ... The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation." Byrd recalls that "suddenly lights flashed in my mind! Someone important had recognized my abilities! I was only 23 or 24 years old, and the thought of a political career had never really hit me. But strike me that night, it did."[4] He participated in the KKK during World War II, holding the titles Kleagle (recruiter) and Exalted Cyclops. He did not serve in the military during the war, working instead as a welder in a Baltimore, Maryland shipyard, where Byrd helped build warships.[citation needed]

Byrd commented on the 1945 controversy about racially integrating the military. Byrd, when he was 28 years old, wrote to segregationist Senator Theodore Bilbo, of Mississippi, vowing never to serve in such a military:

Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wild

Dee said...

Feinstein said:
“This amendment provides a consistent, stable workforce for an industry that depends almost exclusively on undocumented labor - agriculture. And it provides temporary status for those who have worked in agriculture and who will continue to work in agriculture for a number of years,” Senator Feinstein said at the Committee Markup today.

This amendment has been negotiated with growers and farm workers. It is supported by the American Farm Bureau, the United Farm Workers, and dozens of organizations across the nation. Virtually every farm organization in the United States is in support of this legislation.

We need this legislation because in the last year, 13,280 farms in the United States have shut down and others have moved their operation to Mexico. In fact, U.S. farmers operate at least 84,000 acres in Mexico. It is estimated that the United States will lose $5 billion to $9 billion to foreign competition.

Dee said...

She continues:
This is not amnesty. It is an emergency agricultural worker bill, which will give protected status to those workers who have worked in agriculture within the last 48 months. They must work at least 100 days a year in agriculture for the next five years, and it includes a five-year sunset. This bill also reforms and streamlines the H-2A program.

Dee said...

and

Agriculture needs a consistent workforce. Without it, they can’t plant, they can’t prune, they can’t pick, and they can’t pack. And the time has come for Congress to step up to the plate.

Liquidmicro said...

So you condone the use of CHEAP EXPLOITED LABOR to provide food for your table? Feinstein's bill removes all workers protections for the employers!!

John Bowe:
Globalization means that soon, we, too, might be working for pennies an hour. It’s like Adam Smith in reverse: trade with people less free than you, and your own freedom is threatened.

Dee said...

“We are continuing to tighten our border security, but at a time of accelerating food prices, we cannot deny consumers the abundance of American agriculture’s effort, for lack of a labor force,”

“Oranges are rotting on trees in Florida, and our crops are being moved and grown south of the border. If we want food security and food safety, we should be providing as much food as we can here, and we can’t do that with our current labor force.”

Liquidmicro said...

I can read the articles Dee, You don't need to quote each one of her comments.

Like I said, You condone the use of cheap exploitable labor as long as it puts food on your table for cheap!!

Dee said...

Liquid,
Talking out of both sides of your mouth? You supported the exploitive employer at the Meat Packing plant. You did not call for his imprisonment even though he has a track record of exploitation and abuse in every plant he owns. Now you bring it up here? Sounds like your tongue is getting a little forked Liquid!

Dee said...

I believe we have choices. These farmers are not looking to exploit workers. You could care less if they did.
All you are concerned about is they are primarily Latino workers. It just irritates most of you ANTIs to have Latino workers in this country. You bring up this fake word Amnesty when clearly Senator Feinstein is not advocating this. This is a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM!!

Liquidmicro said...

You throw the RACE CARD??!! Come on, you can argue better than that. You better go back and read my response to you in the other topic of Agriprocessors before you start accusing me of anything. I don't want to make you look foolish.

Dee said...

The choices we have are:
1. Continue with Labor Shortages, let the crops rot on the vine.
2. Stop growing crops here in the US. Farmers can either move to Mexico or other countries or we just purchase crops from them
3. Bring in Additional Guest Workers during harvest season
4. Stop eating fruits and vegetables.

Dee said...

Just checking to see if you ate your Wheaties today Liquid.

Liquidmiro said...

Help Stemilt Cherry workers get food, housing and justice.

This was just recent here in CA.

Liquidmicro said...

Shafter, CA

Saturday May 10
Farm workers found living in Calif. cherry orchard

Farm labor organizers say they have discovered more than 100 migrant fruit pickers living in a Central Valley cherry orchard where they have been sleeping outdoors and bathing in drainage ditches.



Shafter, CA

Monday May 12
U.S. Department of Labor investigating Kern County orchard

Federal authorities say they are looking into working conditions at a Kern County cherry orchard where more than 100 workers reported they were denied adequate housing and access to safe water.

Liquidmicro said...

This farmer lied to these workers, and because they are "Illegal Immigrants" they are not protected by the H-2A Visa requirements that are there to protect them from these unscrupulous employers.

Dee said...

Liquid,
It is nice to see you taking the side of the exploited worker. I agree all should do what we can to punish the exploitive employers. They are not following immigration laws and policies and should be sanctioned!

Dee said...

The alternative could be this:
Steve Scaroni couldn’t find enough workers to work at his lettuce processing plant in California. So he moved the plant to Guanajuato, Mexico to get the labor force that he needed. He now has 2,000 acres in Mexico and 500 employees. He exports to the United States about 2 million pounds of lettuce a week.

Dee said...

As Feinstein says:
If enacted, this bill would take a major step forward in helping to address a severe shortage in the number of agriculture workers across the country needed to pick crops.

Liquidmicro said...

Why is it that the farmers in Mexico can't farm there yet an American farmer can go there and farm no problem?

The H-2A visa has an unlimited supply of visas available, the farmers don't use it due to "Cheap Labor". Why should the be responsible for all the requirements, protections of the visa worker?

gtotracker said...

Thanks to Steve Scaroni, 500 Mexicans don't have risk a dangerous trip, deportation, and exploitation. They get to stay home, where most people want to be. That is how the market is supposed to work.

Dee said...

Welcome GoTracker,
You are right. 500 were able to stay employed in MX. We do have choices.
1. Continue with Labor Shortages, let the crops rot on the vine.
2. Stop growing crops here in the US. Farmers can either move to Mexico or other countries or we just purchase crops from them
3. Bring in Additional Guest Workers during harvest season
4. Stop eating fruits and vegetables.

So if you are in support of number 2 and want our farms here to go out of business and instead ask our farmers to buy farms in MX and other countries, then we should say thats what we want to do.

Liquidmicro said...

There would be NO LABOR SHORTAGE (not that there is one) if the farmers would use H-2A. They refuse to. Feinstein is going to let the employers off the hook, and further allow exploitation of the workers.

The visa system is there to protect the visa holder, the UFW is there to unite the workers. The employers are let off scott free. There are NO ROTTING CROPS!! We already by quite a bit of our food supply from other countries.

Liquidmicro said...

You attack Byrds character only to achieve what, exactly? Try attacking his point, you have failed.


This is directly from an "Legalized Immigrant".

The buzz in town: Watch out for the 'migre'

SIOUX CITY, Iowa -- Like lots of dads, Gilbert Torres occasionally loses track of his boys as they play outside their small rental home on Sioux City's west side.

Ask him where the family's immigration papers are located and he pulls out the pile immediately.

"This is the stack for me," says Torres, 41, leafing through several folders. "Here is my paper."

The certificate, which looks like a diploma, verifies Torres gained U.S. citizenship March 3, 2006. The process took him two decades and at least $3,000. It's worth it.

I see Torres days after federal immigration agents raided the Agriprocessors Inc. meatpacking plant in Postville, Iowa, and arrested 390 workers, most of them Hispanic. It is believed many laborers there obtained false birth certificates and social security cards to gain employment.

While they attempted to feed their families and achieve the "American Dream," they broke the law, potentially hurt law-abiding citizens and should be prosecuted.

"I came from California, where you buy a fake green card and a fake social security card," says Torres, a truck driver. "It's like a grocery store. You come to this place in San Jose, tell them you're a Mexican and they set you up with whatever you need."

Iowa, according to Torres, is stricter. Employers here check social security cards and birth certificates. Illegal workers in Iowa often trek to Minnesota to find the documents they need. They assume another's identity to slaughter livestock for a bit more than minimum wage.

It was reported that some workers in Postville toiled for less -- much less -- than minimum wage. Some dream.

"The only way you work in Iowa is to have another person's identity," he says. "If they do that and then drink and drive or break the law, it goes on that person's name. They burn out another person's name."

Torres is against amnesty. He believes a path to citizenship should take 12 years. His wife Maria, who serves homemade tamales on this picture-perfect Friday night, secured her green card three years ago and recently earned permanent-resident status, another step toward citizenship.
....
"That's what people in Mexico think America is," he says. "They all think there are great jobs and all this money. You can tell when a person has just come from Mexico because for the first few months they are smiling and saying 'Hi' to everyone they see."

They soon learn paradise can be damn tough.
....
"You should take the steps and prove yourself in this country," says the trucker in the Iowa Hawkeyes T-shirt.

Otherwise, he adds, you are asking for trouble. You are asking to be caught. And you are victimizing someone else.



VICTIMIZING SOMEONE ELSE!! That can't be what all of this is about, could it? The employers are victimizing these "Illegal Immigrants", the "Illegal Immigrants" are victimizing the American Citizen, and the American Citizen is standing up to this demanding that they be taken from the chain, and are called names for it!!

Make the farmers use the H-2A visas, that takes the American Citizen out of the chain, protects the now "Immigrant" and forces the employer to endure the costs instead of the American Citizen.

Your arguments of cheap produce, Dee, do nothing more than continue exploiting the workers, lets the employer off scott free and continues placing American Citizens in the chain. You condone "Illegal Immigration" just so you can buy for less.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Here is what the DOL is reporting:

"the current H-2A regulations hadn't been updated in more than 20 years. Farmers report that the H2A program is burdensome, duplicative and riddled with delays. And many who have tried it report such bad experiences that they stopped using it altogether."

randyjet said...

Hell, Dee just wants to keep her illegal gardner and nanny. Remember Zoe Baird who was going to be Clinton's AG? She had an illegal nanny who she did not pay taxes or SS on. All these people care about is their OWN welfare as she makes clear in wanting to get cheap food off the backs of illegals. THAT is NOT being a liberal! It is rank discrimination and exploitation. As a long time civil rights activist and liberal I am DAMNED tired of hearing this kind of CRAP.

Dee said...

Liquid,
You speak my argument for me. The problem is we need CIR. We need to reduct the backlog of form processing, stop the complications and redundancy in the process, and ensure everyone follows the process. I want all to follow the legal process. It should not have to take 10 - 20 years. Even in your case, it took the person 11 years. I am sure he had a sponsor. Without a sponsor it may take up to 20 years. I wonder how much he paid under the table to speed up his processing.
1. CIR: THE PROCESSES ARE CURRENTLY BROKEN AND VERY CORRUPT. WE NEED TO FIX THIS.
2. EMPLOYER SANCTIONS: PART OF THE REASON IS EMPLOYERS LIKE RUBASHKIN ARE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE, SANCTIONED AND NEVER IMPRISONED.
3. ALLOW THOSE HERE TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND APPLY.

I´VE SAID THIS ALL ALONG!

patriot said...

dee, backlogs of form processing has nothing to do with those who just sneak across our border. They usually don't even have any paperwork in the works.

Liquidmicro said...

Your still arguing on behalf of business, not on behalf of the "Immigrant". You wish to remove any sanctions for the use of cheap labor. If anything, you argue my point for me because you fail to see it from the workers side. Employers need to be, nay, must be, put into check and forced to treat employees like persons instead of disposable product.

Our visa programs are there for the protection of the "immigrant" from exploitation, and are there for the American Citizen not having to compete with slave labor and declining wages.

You are doing nothing but giving the employers a free ticket to continue doing just what they have been doing. Me thinks, you are seriously confused.

Dee said...

Liquid,
It is not me that is giving Employers a free ride, it is the GOP and the Administration.

1. Continue with Labor Shortages, let the crops rot on the vine. (status quo)
2. Stop growing crops here in the US. Farmers can either move to Mexico or other countries or we just purchase crops from them
3. Bring in Additional Guest Workers during harvest season
4. Stop eating fruits and vegetables.
5. CIR

Liquidmicro said...

GOP?? Try both parties, look to Feinstein and her AG Bill. This is not a party specific problem. The administration is going after companies hiring "Illegal Immigrants". The problem is that the Human Resources Departments are the ones hiring the "Illegal Immigrants", and most of those Human Resource Managers are Hispanic themselves. Nothing like taking advantage of your own kind.

There are no crops "ROTTING" here in the USA. I find it strange that an American Farmer can g to Mexico and farm, yet a Mexican farmer has to come here to work. I'm sorry that your fallacies just aren't adding up.

patriot said...

dee, one can see how weak your argument is for legalizing all of the illegals or importing more foreign workers. Ag workers only comprise about 2% of our workforce. How do you justify legalizing the rest of them who are not doing ag jobs but doing jobs that Americans will do for a fair wage?

Dee said...

Liquid
I totally disagree with your statement. In reality, what is happening is, ICE is going after high profile companies in order to make "Breaing News!" and conducting sweeps, arresting-detaining illegal immigrants and allowing the businesses and their owners to go scot free!

Liquids statement:
The administration is going after companies hiring "Illegal Immigrants".

patriot said...

NO, dee! I already posted an article awhile back that stated that an employer was sent to prison for KNOWLINGLY employing illegal aliens amd that was just one example. When an employer is convicted and sentenced you may or may not know about it. It's not like it is headline news you know! What part of an investigation has to happen first to prove or disprove an employer's KNOWINGLY hiring illegal aliens, don't you get?

The fake documents that the illegals provide these employers are usually pretty authentic looking. Much of what is happening is in the HR department. I know of an HR person (Hispanic, go figure) that was fired for knowlingly hiring illegal aliens. This is why we need the Save Act to pass so that the employers can't feign ignorance anymore. But of course you object to that because it would mean the illegals get fired and not hired. Can't have that, now can we?

dianne said...

The enforcement arm of any federal agency will go after the big guys to make the news, thereby sending a message that they mean business. This was the rule at FDA and I believe still is. They don't have the manpower or budget to chase the little guy unless something really egregious happens. I worked in regulatory affairs. I know how the system works.

Dee said...

Actually what has happened:

Agriprocessors: 700 migrants jailed. No Employers jailed.

Pilgrims Pride: hundreds migrants jailed. No employers jailed.

Swift: hundreds migrants jailed. No employers jailed.

New Bedford-Insolia: hundreds migrants swept to detention centers. No employers jailed!!

patriot said...

DEE,do you have a reading comprehension problem? I said it takes an investigation of the employers to prove that they KNOWINGLY hired illegal aliens before they can be arrested and then convictied. DO YOU GET IT NOW?

Dee said...

Pat, That is your sides problem.
To date, NO EMPLOYER has been imprisoned. Meanwhile, thousands of IEs have been imprisoned in the heinous, crony owned detention centers-tent prisons. Why is it your side only supports the IEs being imprisoned and their cronies paid? Why is it, even though the sweeps have been occurring for years, to date, the owners have not spent any time in prison? Also, Pilgrims Pride and Swift Owners have NOT been charged for any crimes, even though the sweeps occurred in their locations years ago?

Do you have an answer?
Nope! None!

Dee said...

Illegal Immigrants imprisoned.
Crony Owned Private Prison owners PAID!! That is all your side supports!
Horrible!!

ultima said...

No one should support Feinstein in her effort to tack this inappropriate measure on the Iraq supplemental appropriation bill. That's just dead wrong.

We make a big issue out of encouraging everyone to vote but yet Pelosi singlehandedly as prevented an up or down vote on SAVE. What kind of a democracy does that represent?

patriot said...

That is a lie, dee. I already posted an article a few weeks back whereby an employer had been imprisoned for KNOWLINGLY hiring illegal aliens.

If some of the other employers weren't imprisoned, then that means the above wasn't proven! What part of criminal investigation and justice don't you understand?

Why don't you leave your blog for a few days and come back with a less nasty attitude?

patriot said...

What is "horrible" about so-called crony owned detention centers? The illegals have to be detained one way or another. What would you have happen? Let them loose in the streets? Oh, that's right! That IS what you want. What happened to you in life dee, that made you turn your back on your own country for some ethnocentric loyalty?

Liquidmicro said...

AG Bill has been pulled from the Iraq War Funding Bill. It was killed by a member of the Hispanic Caucus.

"But the Senate's rules left some non-spending add-ons like the immigrant labor provisions vulnerable, by allowing any senator to knock them out on a procedural move.

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., objected to the immigrant farm labor provision, added to the measure at a hearing last week by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho. It would allow almost 1.4 million immigrant farm workers to stay in the United States for up to five years to ease a shortage of farm workers that has left some crops rotting in the fields.

Menendez' move also killed a measure by Sens. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., and Judd Gregg, R-N.H., to extend an expired program to allow seasonal workers to return to the country using H-2B visas.

A spokesman said Menendez acted because the two immigration provisions were tilted in favor of businesses while doing too little to help immigrant workers."

Senate loads up war funding bill with other things

Dee said...

Pat,
Do you understand these private prisons are owned by friends of the GOP? Do you understand they are paid by the head? I think it is something like $91 a day. They arrest whole families because that is more $ per head.
Do you understand they are not "official" prisoners. In fact, they dont call them prisoners. They are called "detainees."
I think it is interesting that the sweeps occur in companies with a high rate of OTMs (other than Mexican). It is only the OTMs that are held in these crony owned detention centers. (More $$ per day) They are held until they are processed, receive their day in court. Then once they are identified as illegal immigrants from OTM, they are put "on hold" until their are sufficient detainees from their country of origin for them to "economically" fund a return trip.

This is all so Bogus! And you don´t even GET IT!!

patriot said...

dee, where is your proof that whole families are arrested to gain more money per head? You are always the one demanding proof from us anti's well put up or shut up!

Yes, of course I know that they are "detainees". Who the hell do you think you are talking to... a child?

What is bogus about holding these detainees until there is enough of them to deport back to their homeland? Although I would prefer they expediate them faster to their homelands. You are just trying to dig up as much bogus dirt as possible because you want illegals running loose in our country. Grow some American backbone will you? Isn't it about time after your supposed family has been here for over 200 years?

Dee said...

Pat,
I have written and provided urls for Family Detention centers several times. Go back and look. I have provided the documentation!

Also if you are interested, do some google searches on privately owned prisons in Texas and those that imprison illegal immigrants and families. There have been many protests!!
Facts are facts!

patriot said...

dee, and just recently I provided a link for you to an article dated in April of this year of all the improvements that have been made to Hutto in particular. How soon we forget, right dee?

Anonymous said...

we won the pro-enforcement people won . the ones you describe as puppets and robots .we won!
isn't it great!

Anonymous said...

mexican american?
so are you an illegal alien? an anchor baby?
if you like mexico so much
why dont you go live there?

anon 1 said...

racist american?
so are you a Neo-Nazi? KKK member?
if you like MAYBERRY so much
why don't you go live there?

(oh wait, you do live there in fantasy world)

patriot said...

anon 1, what you are missing here is that the KKK and such groups are opposed to all persons of color. We anti's are not! We just want immigrants to come here legally no matter what their skin color or ethnicity is and yes it does partly have to do with retaining our culture and traditional ethnic makeup in this country also. Just as Mexico and all of Latin America does. We cannot do that with uncontrolled and unlimited illegal immigration.

Here is another reason that causes American's alarm about this uncontrolled illegal immigration from mostly the south of us.

I never thought that it was the illiterate peasant coming from Mexico that was screaming reconquista. However, what IS happening is that after they get here, they and their children--ESPECIALLY their children--are indoctrinated by the leftist Chicano nationalists and Socialists into this anti-American ideology. It is a political movement based on revanchism and ethnic/racial chauvanism and victimology.

So, I don't give a RIP whether the illegals THEMSELVES are of the reconquista mindset when they first come here. The facts are that they provide a pool from which the Chicano nationalists draw from to build up their movement. The children are indoctrinated in hundred of MEChA chapters all over the country and in the public schools in the Southwest just like the one in Arizona. Would this be going on without the tidal wave of illegals?? The ideology would probably still exist, but would have too few numbers to make a difference, just like the Black nationalist movement never was able to garner the numbers. But, bring 50 million or so more in, fill their heads up with resentment, hatred, and contempt and a sense of righteous grievance and then let's see.

This is just common sense. Bottom line: as long as there as those here on THIS side of the border working feverishly on the anti-American agenda and using these people to accomplish their goals, we best keep their potential recruits out.

anon 1 said...

well pat, that was a well thought-out explanation which I liked and actually am quite surprised to see you re-act in a civil way, thank you, what I was doing is simply re-acting at the same level as the anonymous' harsh and racist comments, do I like doing it that way, no, I don't like lowering myself to equal their level and that's not what Dee is asking on her blog, this goes back to what we commented last month when name-calling and arguing gets us nowhere.

My stance is the same as Dee's stance on immigration, your beliefs pat, as well as MANY ANTI'S is that all ILLEEEEEEGALS need to be deported, NO EXCEPTIONS, a fence built around the country to stop further ILLEEEEGALS from crossing over, let me ask you, do you or any ANTI'S honestly think that this will ever happen? What official is going to commit economic disaster? My answer would be no, no person or party will EVER let that happen, so then what now? If we don't build a fence, If we don't deport all ILLEEEEGALS, what now?

patriot said...

anon 1, the fence has already been approved and will be built. And I believe that something will be done about the illegals. I am hoping for the Save Act to pass and therefore the illegals will self deport without jobs.

Dee said...

Pat,
As I have said frequently, let your mother go to a detention center. Lets see how she likes it there. If it is as wonderful as you say it is, this should be no problem.
If it is as heinous as I say it is, then there is a problem.

Let her go. You are the one saying the improvements are so great! When shall we reserve her time there??

patriot said...

dee, and as I have said and as usual you aren't listening, if my mother committed a crime and the law said she had to go to a detention center for it, then that is what needs to happen! Unlike you ethnocentric Hispanics, I don't put my relatives or illegal foreigners who are ethnically like myself above the laws of this country!

No, I didn't say anything about the improvents made to these detention centers, THE ARTICLE I PROVIDED DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

patriot said...

dee, I have no reason to doubt the article I provided. Do you? Or is your bias going to get in the way again?

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