Wednesday, May 21, 2008

Gilchrist says: "The Party is OVER for the Minutemen! The ANTI Mission is Lost-Forgotten!"

Jim Gilchrist says, "The Party is Over for the Minutemen!" Experts Agree!!

Could infighting end Minuteman movement?
Anti-illegal immigration group struggling as chapters disband, donations slow
Daily Herald - 5/19/2008
One of the most visible groups in the anti-illegal immigration movement could be defunct in seven months, its leader says. "We've lost the battle," said Minuteman project founder Jim Gilchrist. "My intuition tells me … this entire movement will fizzle to nothing by the end of the year." Gilchrist, a former California accountant, founded the project in October 2004. In two years, the grass-roots border-control group had grown to boast more than 200 chapters across the country. Today, Gilchrist says, a host of internal problems are bringing the movement to its knees. More than 20 chapters, including the Skokie-based Illinois Minuteman project, have disbanded, leaving fewer than 180 in operation. Dozens of chapters are fighting with one another and vying for attention, he said. "Donations are way down. Communication is way down … instead of people getting organized and unified, they're attacking each other more than the issues," Gilchrist said. "We're still fighting the fight, but I want to be clear: I'm firing a warning shot." Lindenhurst resident Rick Biesada, director of the Chicago Minuteman Project, calls the infighting "disheartening. Everyone wants to be a chief these days. But nobody wants to be an Indian." When chapters close, Gilchrist said, more times than not members do not join another chapter -- they leave the movement. The hundreds of members of the Illinois Minuteman Project, which shut down after leader Rosanna Pulido went to work for the Washington-based Federation for American Immigration Reform, haven't joined the Chicago project, Biesada said. Jack Martin, a project director for FAIR, could not comment on whether his organization has reaped the benefits of the Minuteman chapter's collapse. "I don't think that we have any good idea as to whether people who come to us have been members of Minuteman chapters or are members, we don't have that data," he said. Still, Martin said, FAIR numbers and operations remain steady. Though Biesada says the two remaining local Minuteman chapters, the Chicago Minuteman and the Minuteman Midwest, are staying strong for the time being, "as far as staying together as a national movement, it's up in the air right now." That type of conjecture, immigration experts say, is reasonable. "For all these reasons and more, plus the current context," said Barry Chiswick, an immigration and economics professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, "the anti-illegal immigration movement could very well collapse."
Two factors: 1. the presidential election 2. the economy
have shifted focus away from the issue of illegal immigration, taking the wind out of the Minuteman sails.
Candidates Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and John McCain all have kept the subject on the back burner, Chiswick said. "Hispanics are a key demographic group in this election," he said. "A large number of them are interested in easier immigration. If you come out for stricter enforcement during a campaign, you're only risking making people angry."
Then there's the economic downturn, says Notre Dame's Institute of Latino Studies Director Allert Brown-Gort. "There are other things to talk about that are more pressing," than immigration, Brown-Gort said. "It's taken the wind out of the movement." Rising fuel prices make it more difficult for many to attend meetings and protests. Biesada, who runs a trucking business, says "normally, if I'd go to a protest or rally, I'd hire someone to work for me. Now I can't afford to do it. The price of diesel fuel is just killing us." Economic woes may even blunt the Minuteman Project's reason for being. The construction industry, traditionally a draw for Hispanic immigrants, according to nonpartisan Pew Research Center, is at a near standstill. "If you're not likely to find a job, I think we're going to see a serious downturn in the number of people coming across the border. It's a response to the market," Brown-Gort said. Fewer job opportunities and the falling value of the dollar "means that coming to the United States is less attractive than it has been," Chiswick said. "Even if you find a job, that job is less valuable." With a combination of the economic downturn, the lack of national attention and a slowing of illegal immigrant traffic, McHenry County Latino Coalition director Carlos Acosta said he believes it's getting harder and harder for anti-immigration groups to connect with the general population. "Their message has become a little stale," Acosta said. "Because the economy has gone down, everybody's out of work. It's harder to blame an immigrant for losing a job." Still, Acosta said, if the Minuteman movement were to dwindle, in some ways it could hurt immigration advocacy groups.
Local Minuteman protests have created a few unexpected alliances, Acosta said. "We have been able to reach out to other groups locally that have not been traditionally involved -- a much better relationship with the McHenry County Peace group -- they had not historically been involved in immigration matters." "The Minuteman movement, in some ways, really strengthened immigrant advocacy groups," Acosta said. "It forced us to find ways to really explain to the general population what are the benefits of comprehensive immigration reform."

52 comments:

patriot said...

MCDC is alive and well and is an offshoot of the original MM organization and it's leader is Chris Simcox not Jim Gilchrist.

What you fail to realize is that most Americans whom you refer to as anti's are not a part of any the MM organizations and we are the majority in this country. So no need for you to rejoice because we are trudging forward to take our country back and letting congress know loud and clear where we stand on illegal immigration.

Liquidmicro said...

Your whole topic deems the MCDC as the Anti_Illegal Immigration Movement, when in fact, it is not. The only thing that the Minute Men did was guard our border, nothing else. If you think that is the entire ANTI movement, you are sadly mistaken.

Dee said...

Pat,
Simcox is well known for his falsely obtaining millions of dollars of donations from his members for the supposed border fence which he never built. His own members quit because of his fraud. This was months ago. You should know this. He is barely visible, except occassionally when he attends a university, then there are massive protests against him and the MMs.

I thought you knew this.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am just reporting here and looking to discuss this issue. I agree with both you and Pat however. The MMs do not represent ALL of the ANTIs. Their group, however, is, in fact, losing members and area groups and it looks like Gilchrist is the person who is reveling in this fact.

Here is what he said:
Minuteman project founder Jim Gilchrist. "My intuition tells me … this entire movement will fizzle to nothing by the end of the year."

patriot said...

dee, I am well aware of the accusations against Simcox but that doesn't change the fact that the MCDC organization is alive and well. Speaking of MCDC, I just read this in their forum about the amnesty amendments being dropped from the Iraq spending bill. Read it an weep, dee.

Three Down, One to Go!
Keep the Calls Coming!
May 21, 2008

Last night, Democratic Leadership partially capitulated and agreed to strip three of the four immigration amendments from the Iraq War Funding Bill that is on the Senate floor this week.

The move came when Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ) made a point of order under Senate Rule 16, which prohibits legislating policy on an appropriations bill. The parliamentarian agreed, and stripped the following amendments:

The AgJobs Amendment that would have granted amnesty to 1.35 million agricultural workers and their families;
The Murray-Gregg Amendment that would have made approximately 218,000 more green cards available for multinational executives and so-called "highly skilled workers" by "recapturing" visas from as far back as 1994; and
The Leahy Amendment that would have extended for 5-years a program that helps wealthy investors get green cards.
However, Senate sources tell us that the Mikulski H-2B amendment - an amendment that could lead to hundreds of thousands of new unskilled H-2B guest workers flooding the labor market in only a few years - is still in the Iraq War Funding Bill. This is because the Iraq War Funding Bill is being considered in two parts and point of order raised by Senator Menendez only applied to the first part. The H-2B provision is in the second.

Please keep calling your Senators until Democratic Leadership strips this final special-interest immigration amendment from the Iraq War Funding Bill! Tell them that you oppose importing tens of thousands of new unskilled (H-2B) guest workers to appease corporate interests—and especially when the economy is struggling.

We heard throughout the day that your calls put intense pressure on Senators across the country. One staffer told us that the phones were "lighting up like a Christmas tree." Please help us make sure Congress looks out for the American people and not special interests.

Liquidmicro said...

AG Bill has been pulled from the Iraq War Funding Bill. It was killed by a member of the Hispanic Caucus.

"But the Senate's rules left some non-spending add-ons like the immigrant labor provisions vulnerable, by allowing any senator to knock them out on a procedural move.

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., objected to the immigrant farm labor provision, added to the measure at a hearing last week by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho. It would allow almost 1.4 million immigrant farm workers to stay in the United States for up to five years to ease a shortage of farm workers that has left some crops rotting in the fields.

Menendez' move also killed a measure by Sens. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., and Judd Gregg, R-N.H., to extend an expired program to allow seasonal workers to return to the country using H-2B visas.

A spokesman said Menendez acted because the two immigration provisions were tilted in favor of businesses while doing too little to help immigrant workers."

Senate loads up war funding bill with other things

Dee said...

Liquid is right Pat. It is the Hispanic Caucus members that have been defeating the bills.

Don´t you see Pat.
The Admin and Business are on their OWN side, neither PRO nor ANTI. They are after the $$.

None of this is about what you ANTIs term "amnesty."

We are like Liquid and Ulty and Dianne. We want:
1. Secure Borders
2. Employers, especially the employers that are exploiting workers, we want them imprisoned and stopped!!! We DO NOT WANT WORKERS exploited or harmed anymore!!
You see Pat, those that come here are trying to achieve the American Dream, but due to the backlog and broken procress are often conived into becoming unlawful in using false ID provided to them.
There is NO RECOQUISTA. Merely Human Being looking to better their lives and their childrens´ lives.

CIR = doing away with the backlog and broken processes and figuring out something that works!!

Can´t WE come to Common Ground and figure out something that is agreeable to ALL of us?

patriot said...

I don't care WHO is defeating these amnesty bills just as long as they are defeated. Liquid is no more on your side of the issue than the man in the moon is. Begging for some support are you? Secure borders is what we all want including myself so what is your point with that statement? The difference is that you want the illegals legalized first and we don't so there is your difference. You say you want the employers punished and held accountable but don't want the Save Act to pass that will do just that. So you claim we agree on that and yet you put restraints on doing just that. So no, neither Liquid, myself or any other anti in here agrees with on that either.

I can't believe how many times you have denied ANY reconquista in this country! Are you mentally ill? I have provided statements, videos and names of groups that are reconquista over and over. Want me to post them all again for the hundredth time? There is something wrong with you, dee. Get help!

Liquidmicro said...

It is the Hispanic Caucus members that want an "all or nothing" bill to come about. Pat has the same info as I have posted, I'm no more wrong than Pat is. Our biggest differences, Dee, are:
I believe the Immigration laws were put in place to protect the workers coming here on Visas, to grant them some sort of protection against exploitation.
I believe in unions for legal workers.
I believe "Illegal Immigrants" come here thinking they can make more money here than in their own countries, looking for the "fast buck", while not realizing even though they get paid more per hour here, the cost of living here is virtually the same as if they would have stayed from where it is they came from.
I believe our borders should be secured, immediately.
I believe business/corporations should be penalized/fined heavily if they are caught employing "Illegal Immigrants".
I believe all "Illegal Immigrants" should be repatriated immediately.
I believe in the legal workers having the power to control their jobs, not the employer having the power to control the worker.

I could go on, but you get my drift.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Yes.
And I agree, if you and I got rid of all the semantics, we would be closely aligned.
I dont think you believe a large majority believe in Reconquista either. No such thing, other than a very few zealots saying so. Its all a gimmick to drive passion.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Can we agree on one thing?
Lets figure out a way to punish exploitive employers like Agriprocessors? Can we?

Liquidmicro said...

A large majority of????

Whether they believe it or not, there are some on the fringe, both sides, that do. To a certain extent, it is happening, look to MexicaMovement as an example. There are some that do advocate it. Its not helped by the Mexican Government teaching to their citizens through their schools history classes that Mexican land was stolen from Mexico by the USA. 50%+ of Mexican Citizenry believe this.

To deny any of this as untrue is lying to oneself. However, as a movement, it is failing like that of the Minute Men organizations, falling apart from the inside.

As I have said before, Semantics play a large role.

The repatriation of "Illegal Immigrants", penalizes both the employer and the "Illegal". this will also penalize consumers of the product to a small degree, however that will be over compensated as wages are increased. As I have asked before, as a First World Nation on the Global Market, do we lower our wages to match that of the Third World or do we try to increase the Third World Wages to match ours?

John Bowe:
Globalization means that soon, we, too, might be working for pennies an hour. It’s like Adam Smith in reverse: trade with people less free than you, and your own freedom is threatened.

Liquidmicro said...

Punishing large employers? Get rid of the RICO laws, but then they move the corporation to a country were they can exploit the workers, while we still pay the same price for the product.

patriot said...

Claiming there is NO reconquista is a flat out lie, dee. I already provided you with much proof in the past. I also said that it probably wasn't on a grand scale.
Here read this!

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/opinion/85853.php

Dee said...

Pat,
I feel sorry for you.
You dont get it.
Even Liquid admits, anyone who even thought of it, whatever small group, failed.

It is NOT a massive movement.

Get OVER IT!!

Liquidmicro said...

Theres that Semantics thing again, Dee, the word "movement" just hung you out to dry. The leaders rhetoric have died down, however, the people have still willingly/unknowingly continued it.

patriot said...

Dee, don't try to weasel your way out of it now. Your statement was there is NO reconquista. That isn't the same as there being a reconquista albeit on a scale that we don't have anyway of knowing what that is. Why don't you state the latter rather than the former and then you wouldn't make yourself look like you are in denial and lying? You do know how to say "yes, reconquista does exist but it isn't on a grand scale", don't you? Rather that "there is NO reconquista", don't you?

Oh that's right you pro-illegals like to twist and spin meanings of things. Like calling illegal aliens, "immigrants". You are masters of spinning of the truth and denying things.

FYI, I NEVER said that reconquista was a massive movement. Don't make up lies about what I have said either!

Nelson said...

"All men are created equal"

I believe in this statement. I also believe that it, along with "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are the reasons our nation was founded in the first place.

If we give up this notion that all men (and women) are created equal and have the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (i.e. a pursuit of a better life) then our country stands for nothing. This is why I don't believe in restricting immigration. Freedom is what defines our country, not borders.

Immigration restrictionists only see our country in terms of borders, and completely forget the purpose of our nation's existence.

patriot said...

nelson, what foolhardy statements you make. Having immigration laws and borders doesn't negate the fact that all men are created equal. You are mixing apples with oranges here.

Freedom is for our citizens and legal immigrants. Our nation and other nations exist BECAUSE of their borders. Without borders they cease to be a nation.

Nelson said...

"Freedom is for our citizens and legal immigrants."
vs.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Our Declaration of Independence does not say "Our citizens and legal immigrants are created equal and are endowed by Congress with rights that can be taken away by majority vote."

travel said...

I've got a feeling Nelson is a very idealistic kid - maybe teens up through 20's max. I expect he is not married, has not had to raise a family, probably had his education paid for by his parents, and either works for a non-profit or not at all.

Once he grows up a little and experiences the responsibilities that go along with our freedoms, he might be changing his tune.

Dee said...

Travel,
So what you are saying is, if you cannot beat someone´s argument, then call them names and accuse them of being a kid.

Perhaps you should try to refute what he is saying vs saying he is too young to know better.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Nope. No Reconquista. No VIABLE group is pushing it. The vast majority of people coming here are trying to work and achieve the American Dream and a better life for their children.

Why do you even try to support that argument when you even say "a few outliers". Argue the issues not "made up-tiny outliers" issues like Pat does.

Dee said...

Nelson,
You are right! Great response!

Nelson said...
"Freedom is for our citizens and legal immigrants."
vs.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Our Declaration of Independence does not say "Our citizens and legal immigrants are created equal and are endowed by Congress with rights that can be taken away by majority vote."

Dee said...

Nelson,
You are right! Great response!

Nelson said...
"Freedom is for our citizens and legal immigrants."
vs.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Our Declaration of Independence does not say "Our citizens and legal immigrants are created equal and are endowed by Congress with rights that can be taken away by majority vote."

patriot said...

nelson, one has to use common sense and logic when interpeting things written long ago. Common sense would tell that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written for Americans, not foreigners. If you are trying to claim that either of these two things denies us the right to have immigration laws and a soveirgn border, you truly are delusional. If that were true then why do we have immigration laws?

Just like the 14th Amendment about birthrite citizenship. "Subject to the jurisdiction, thereof" does not apply to babies born from illegal alien parents. Common sense and logic, nelson. Try it sometime!

Dee said...

Gosh Pat,
I guess its a very good thing your Opinion is NOT Rule of Law!!

travel said...

Dee...where did I call Nelson "names"? I did no such thing. I suggested he was probably young and idealistic without typical adult experiences.

The Declaration of Independence was a declaration of independence from the rule of England. That was the sole purpose of the document. Everything in that document must be interpreted from that context.

The right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness does not convey on anyone in this world the right to simply come and live in the United States unless they were born here. All others must apply for admission in some fashion.

By your logic, Saddam Hussein could say that he has the unrestricted right to come here which he certainly does not because he has broken a multitude of our laws and by these actions is ineligible for entry.

patriot said...

dee, it isn't just opinion. I asked the question "why do we have immigration laws if they are in violation of our Constitution or Bill of Rights?

anon 1 said...

don't worry Dee, travel just paints a self portrait which he/she would love to instill onto others as a put down but in fact it is he/she that carries these qualities he/she wishes never had, so sad :( . I guess we'll never truely know.

and Nelson, you go brotha', don't let these ANTI's tell you otherwise, after all, all they know to do on here is to put down others on a BLOG in front of a PC monitor on a keyboard, makes them feel important

patriot said...

anon 1, try visiting the HB forum. A pro-illegal forum with nothing but insults from them for anyone who dares be opposed to illegal immigration. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Dee said...

Sorry Travel.

Here is the name you called him "Nelson is a very idealistic kid". You minimize his perspective when you do this.

Don´t worry. I am not indicting you for this. I just ask that you respect his opininion and debate the issue.

Dee said...

Pat,
All from both sides are free to voice their opinion here as long as we remain civil.
I like Travel, Nelson, Anon1, and even you. It is important we hear ALL sides of our discussions.

patriot said...

When have I ever objected to hearing another opinion in here, dee? It was your buddy anon 1 who said this "all anti's do is put down others". Maybe it is him you should be talking to about remaining civil. Funny how you never chastize a pro-illegal in here for putting down an anti, isn't it? But you are all over us anti's with "let's remain civil". Why are pro-illegals such hypocrites about everything?

Dee said...

So with many MM groups dissolving, do you think this will impact the ANTI illegal immigration movement? Jim Gilchrist seems to think so.

Liquidmicro said...

It's nice to pick and choose phrases, "All men are created equal", but when you do so you remove the context in which they are stated.

Please go back and use the Declaration of Independence in its entirety. Then, and only then, will you have the capability of understanding its true meaning and what it pertains to.

This phrase completely refutes your assumptions of "All men are created equal" and "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness", where you forget the words.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed-"

The United States Declaration of Independence is an act of the Second Continental Congress, adopted on July 4, 1776, which declared that the Thirteen Colonies in North America were "Free and Independent States" and that "all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved." The document, formally entitled The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, explained the justifications for separation from the British crown.

Liquidmicro said...

This will have no effect on the ANTI- movement what so ever. Gilchrist is a moron for thinking that he is the creator of the ANTI- movement. His head is to big for his britches. He is but a flea on th dog of the ANTI movement.

patriot said...

You are correct, liquid. The anti movement is so much more than the MM organization. Dee, thinks the anti movement is only comprised of groups such as the MM. She should pay more attention to the polls and what mainstream Americans think.

Fox Valley Minuteman said...

Here is the response and followup to this article
http://blog.foxvalleyminuteman.com/?p=101

Anonymous said...

I am anti-illegal and I do not belong to the Minutemen. I am for buliding a wall but do not belong to the Minutemen. I am for deportation and I am against amnesty for the 12 million plus illegals. I do not belong to the Minutemen.

Anonymous said...

Anon1 said
"and Nelson, you go brotha', don't let these ANTI's tell you otherwise, after all, all they know to do on here is to put down others on a BLOG in front of a PC monitor on a keyboard, makes them feel important"

using your other self again dee-so funny!

Hran said...

Dee,

re:

"You see Pat, those that come here are trying to achieve the American Dream, but due to the backlog and broken procress are often conived into becoming unlawful in using false ID provided to them."

As if they are passive in breaking the law. You can't admit that they broke the law with full knowledge of what they are doing. Furthermore, US citizens are often harmed through having their identities stolen. And the same people who make IDs for the illegals made them for some of the 911 terrorists.

And: your stated desire to "secure the border". Why not do that first. If it works, then we can consider the other measures. Otherwise, we may just get fooled again with promises that go unfunded. What's wrong with that plan, Dee?

Hran said...

Nelson:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights ..."

One of these rights is to secure, maintain, and protect one's ethnic group. Do you agree?

If not, then I assume you have no problem with what China is doing to Tibet, for instance (i.e. ethnocide of the native Tibetans).

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Liquid,
Nope. No Reconquista. No VIABLE group is pushing it. The vast majority of people coming here are trying to work and achieve the American Dream and a better life for their children.


You know very well that there are viable groups that advocate "Reconquista"; A movement hoping to grant ownership of certain land areas in the Southwestern United States to Mexico, Mexicans, or Mexican-Americans. The premise of this reconquest is an historical claim to the land prior to the presence of European-Americans. The term does not make a claim for Spaniard-Europeans, but rather, for Mexicans, the majority of whom are mixed-blood and full-blood indigenous-blooded people.

In more recent times, the notion of Indigenous liberation has become popularized by the Mexica Movement, a group based in Los Angeles. Whereas previous groups have advanced the notion of reclaiming only the U.S. Southwest, the Mexica Movement goes further by demanding that the entire North American continent be reclaimed by Mexicans, Central Americans, Native Americans, and Canadian First Nations.

Other groups like the National Will Organization do not support the concept of Aztlan and identify themselves with the modern Hispanic Mexico, which was deprived of its northern territories after the Mexican War.


So there you have the MexicaMovement
and the NWO

There web sites are:
Mexica-Movement
NWO

So it looks to me that there really are groups out there that are pushing the Reconquest of the USA. Thus, as I stated: The leaders rhetoric have died down, however, the people (Mexicans, Central Americans, Native Americans, and Canadian First Nations.) have still willingly/unknowingly continued it.

patriot said...

liquid, why even bother? Many of us in here have provided proof that there is a reconquista movement in this country and yet dee will turn around and deny it yet again a few weeks from now. It is as if she has aldheimers. She knows damn well that there is one albeit as I said it may be hard to pin down the magnitude of it.

Those just coming to work here are the new reconquista recruits and they are unstilling in their children the Chicano Nationionlist agenda aka Reconquista aka the Mexica Movement.

Dee said...

Liquid,
Sorry Liquid. You are wrong.
What you are trying to reference is the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. In that treaty, the US and MX agreed that the Texicans and other former MX citizens could keep their property. No one wants to reclaim US Land to MX land. There are those that had their personal property stolen from them and they, as US citizens, would like their US property back.


Check this out

No reconquista to change US to MX, just rightfully receive land stolen by some.

From TX On Line:
"In the early 1880s, for example, Kenedy reportedly fenced in a lake that by tradition belonged to Doña Euliana Tijerina of the La Atravesada grant. To enforce their rule the Kings often called on the Texas Rangers,qv whom locals sometimes referred to as los rinches de la Kineña-the King Ranch Texas Rangers. Commenting on such practices, an anonymous newspaper article in 1878 averred that it was not unusual for King's neighbors "to mysteriously disappear whilst his territory extends over entire counties."

Liquidmicro said...

No, Dee, I am actually referring to the 2 Movements that are pushing for the return of Lands to the Nican Tlaca Peoples aka the Mexica-Movement, a fringe group. Don't try to think that you know what I am trying to reference. I am aware of the lands that were taken during the Hidalgo Treaty. These are 2 totally different things.

Liquidmicro said...

The Mexica Movement asserts that the entire continent of North America, which they refer to as "Anahuac", belongs collectively to the indigenous people of North America: Mexicans, Central Americans, Native Americans, South Americans, and Canadian First Nations. The entire Western Hemisphere is referred to as Cemanahuac. People of European descent, the movement holds, are "illegal aliens" who have been trespassing on indigenous lands for over 500 years. A Mexica Movement advocate summarized their position, "America is a murder machine... We want the whole continent... All you guys belong in Europe." he told the people participating in the Minutemen and Save Our State organizations.


There is just something about "We want the whole continent... All you guys belong in Europe" that just doesn't fit in with your claim of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo thought process. So, please correct me if I am wrong!!

Dee said...

Liquid,
I am glad you recognize the Treaty issues are TOTALLY different than anything to do with Reconquista. If there are any actual issues that the majority of Latinos I know have any question about, it is the violation of this treaty. This has NOTHING, NOTHING to do with with Reconquista.

I am also glad you acknowledge that the group you reference is NOT a Mainstream, viable group and INSTEAD is, as you say, "a fringe group."

Liquidmicro said...

Even Pat has said they were a fringe group!! The problem is your refusal to acknowledge that they even exist, which is the point that Pat has been trying to convey, and that you continued to refuse and accept.

Dee said...

Liquid,
I do not refute that there are those small, isolated groups that advocate whatever they advocate.

All I have said and I continue to say is, PROs do not support Reconquista.

Period!

patriot said...

dee, no that isn't all you have said about it. You have adamantly said many times that there is NO reconquista movement. A truthful way to have put it would be to say that you ackowledge that there is one. Leave the numbers out of it. It is irrelevant to just admitting that there is one, period.

I don't know of any of us in here or any anti group that claims that those illegals just looking for work have a reconquista mindset. Those who do are mostly Chicano Nationalist citizens. By the way, MecHa, is no small potatoes in this country however and that is only one organized group with this mindset.

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