Tuesday, January 27, 2009

HATE CRIME: Punched in Face for Speaking Spanish! Why "Official English" Laws will Increase Hate Crimes Against Latinos!

Breaking News:
A 53-year-old San Jose man was having a personal conversation on his cell phone, speaking in Spanish, minding his own business, when he was suddenly attacked, punched in the face, as the racist suspect, Scott Pontzious, 28, of San Jose, screamed "Speak English!!"
Imagine, walking down the street, having a private conversation with your friend on a cell phone, then, out of the blue, some young maniac comes up to you and punches you in the face and runs away!
Of course this is not surprising news, given the rhetoric going on daily on any ANTI Immigration Reform website or newspaper comment section discussing "Official English."
A recent article in "The Oklahoman" is a perfect example. The article titled "Bills to make English the official language in Oklahoma trouble Oklahoma Capitol panel" provides both the for/against arguments. Yet the comments by the ANTI Immigration Reform zealots go to the extreme. Comments include:
. Richard: "who really cares what the hispanics want as they are mostly (by statistic standards) mainly illegals (criminals). put the thing to a vote and let's see how it comes out."
. Charles: "The "outstanding amigo award" should be renamed traitor of the year.The pockmarked slime--Chad Smith and roof pimp HarryTturnCoates qualify as dual slime of the year.Multicuturalist,gaseous,stooges--that aptly describes the Chadster and the pimp."
. Jim: "Speak American."
Or Consider the ANTI Immigration Reform website Alipac, discussing "Nasville votes against English only." (Ironically misspelling the word Nashville). Here are some of their comments:
. dman1200: "Dumbarse morons, have fun having your city overrun by a bunch of illegal alien degenerate thug gangbanger types. Have any of you morons seen or been to LA or CA in general lately? Well enjoy because that is your future. Hope you morons brushed up on your Espanol if you actually hope to compete with these family value loving job thieves in the not so distant future. That is if you can tolerate having your neighborhoods turned into a war zone."
. GA Patriot: "Tennessee is no where near a border state. The fact that they even brought up such an initiative as English only is astounding and an example of how pervasive the illegal population has infiltrated every part of our country. Legal immigrants speak English - period. "
. miguelina:Is it true that only 10% of Nashville voters turned out for this? Wonder how many were illegal aliens. This is a disgraceful slap in the face for unity!"
What is clear is, the ANTI Immigration Reformers equate the sound of the Spanish language to illegal immigration. To them, "Official English" is not about stopping the printing of government forms in Spanish. It is about STOPPING THE USE OF ANYONE, Citizen or Not, From Ever Uttering one word in Spanish in the USA again. Or Else!!
It is clear that if a National "Official English" bill passes, the ANTI Immigration Reformer extremists, like Pontzious, will declare OPEN SEASON to ASSAULT anyone speaking Spanish in public again! These laws should NOT be passed!
Hate Crimes like this are reprehensible and Pontzious should be charged to the FULLEST Extent of the Law!!
References:

210 comments:

1 – 200 of 210   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Because of a minority of radical citizens in this country we should deny the "majority" the right to have our national language become official? Because of a few minority radicals we should continue to spend billions of dollars printing government forms in every language imaginable?

The Arizonian said...

"Imagine, walking down the street, having a private conversation with your friend on a cell phone, then, out of the blue, some young maniac comes up to you and punches you in the face and runs away!"

I don't have to imagine, it's happened. Of course, they usually take something in the process.....

pcorn54 said...

Billions of dollars are not being spent! More nativist propaganda!

Expand your intellect! Learn a little Spanish! It's a beautiful language

Anonymous said...

Then why don't you tell us pcorn what you think is being spent on all these government documents being printed in several languages. Doesn't matter though one dollar is one dollar too much of unnecessary spending of our tax dollars. We should be able to claim our language as part of our heritage and culture just as any other country does.

Why the hell should I learn Spanish? Why not Chinese, Italian, German? There is no reason that Americans should have to learn another language unless they want to anyway. I wouldn't move to another country and expect their citizens to learn my language.

The Arizonian said...

I know 4 languages, ironically none of them are Spanish- never had a 'need' for it.

But I have started learning just so I can communicate better with some of our customers at work, and to better understand their insults.....

Dee said...

Anon,
The topic is a Hate Crime occurred. Why? Because an ANTI Immigration Reformer was so filled with Hate againt anyone speaking Spanish that he punched an innocent man in the face. That is what the "Official English" law will bring! Unprovoked violence and hate!!

Face it!
Read the Article.
The Hate Mongers HATE!!! They hate ALL Latinos. To even hear a spoken word in Spanish on the street, they see RED! Violence! Punch!

This HATE is seething, boiling, creeping into their every pore! And the fuel to this hatefilled IRE is the HATE on the Web in all of the ANTI websites! You see it in the comment sections! Hate! Seething, violent, racist HATE!!

Read the Oklahoman comments! The law is to instill FEAR and to promote HATE! HATE! SEETHING, Gurgling HATE that ends up in a PUNCH in the Face!

Dee said...

English IS already our National Language.

The violence provoking "Official English" bill is just a power play to step on the throat and a punch in the face to anyone who dares utter a word in Spanish on the streets of the US.

The bill calls for the end to printing any government documents in Spanish or any other language. The proponents call for an end to any form of translation. Their minions call to an END to the Spoken Word or else a Punch in the Face or worse! Read the comments.

Dee said...

The proponents pushed this bill prior to the Election. They did not want any election documents printed in Spanish.

Dee said...

The reality is, IF this hate filled law is forced, then what will happen is thousands of small American owned printing businesses will lose their government printing contracts. Thousands will be put out of work, left to collect unemployment. That makes LOTS of sense!

ultima said...

Well, I guess we should judge all Hispanics then by the heinous crime one of them committed against a 13 year old girl here in Colorado, leaving her body to decay in a drainage ditch.

Instead of carping about language crime trivia, why not make some positive suggestions for language to be contained in an Official English bill.

I have made these suggestions before but because of short or convenient memories, I will repeat them:

1. English is the official language of the United States and will be used at all levels of government for ballots, proceedings of official meetings, and all other government publications, transactions, and services.

2. Public Interpreters, like Public Defenders, will be provided for those who can prove that they cannot afford one.

3. True fluency in reading, writing and speaking English will be required for citizenship. No longer will just a few words of English suffice. This will obviate the need for multi-lingual ballots and other materials.

4. The study and private use of foreign languages are fully protected under this law. Infringement of either will be subject the penalties prescribed in section II.

5. Communities are encouraged to provide free instruction in English in all the local libraries. They may however apply for federal grants where the demand exceeds the local resources.

6. Fluency in English or participation in ESL courses at the community,high school, grade school, or college levels will be considered a positive factor in immigration decisions for illegal aliens who wish to stay in this country.

7. Failure to pass the English fluency test will not be cause for deportation of legal immigrants. Although they may not be able to achieve citizenship that failure will not jeopardize their permanent residency status and their children will be fully fluent and therefore can become citizens.

8. Advocacy of official bi-lingualism will be considered unAmerican and a mark of disloyalty for citizens and a cause for immediate deportation of illegals involved in such activity.

9. School districts will emphasize English as the Official language of the United States and will move students out of bi-lingual or ESL classes as rapidly as possible consistent with the achievement of educational objectives.

10. Schools will continue to offer the common foreign languages: French, Spanish, German, and Mandarin Chinese for those who believe their study would be a good use of their time.

11. Assaulting anyone who is not speaking English will be considered an ordinary crime of violence like any other assault and battery and will not be prosecutable under any "hate" crime law.

pcorn54 said...

Anónimo, Hijo de la Chingada! Que ampliar sus conocimientos y ampliar su visión de la vida a estudiar el idioma español ..... Usted se sorprenderá de cómo un poco de aprendizaje que le facilitan la comprensión de lo que se dice acerca de usted a sus espaldas, Chingada Madre!!!! jijijiji!

Anonimo, succhiatore! Si tratterebbe di ampliare le vostre conoscenze e ampliare la tua visione della vita a studiare la lingua spagnola ..... Si sarebbe un po 'stupito come apprendimento consentirebbe di capire ciò che le persone sono state dicendo su di te dietro la schiena testa di merda!!!

Anonym das Arschloch! Es wäre Ihr Wissen und Ihre Einstellung zum Leben, um die spanische Sprache ..... Sie wären überrascht, wie wenig das Lernen würde es ermöglichen, Sie zu verstehen, was die Leute sagten über Sie hinter Ihrem Rücken der Dreckskerl!!!

pcorn54 said...

Ultima,

Actually you have some good suggestions, fair and common sensical.

However, English is the official language of the US and it is the international language of commerce. We don't need laws or Constitutional Amendments. That would open the door to censorship in libraries. Great books being removed. The Greek classics for instance. A stretch of the imagination but once you open the door, things happen you didn't expect.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Expand your intellect! Learn a little Spanish! It's a beautiful language."

Official English does not infringe in any way one's ability to study any foreign language or to use it in private without the expectation of government largess to facilitate it. Except for Latin America's unarmed invasion, a high percentage of American's would find foreign languages of little practical value. Their time could be better spent learning a marketable skill. Admittedly in some cases this will mean learning a foreign language if you have the knack and the desire to do so. There is no reason to burder an entire nation with this. Incidentally, I have studied both Spanish and German in high school and college but have had little use for either. It would be nice if all American citizens could have that same choice, and not be compelled to learn another language just to survive in Mexico Norte.

pcorn54 said...

Well ultima, we are not in "Mexico Norte" and the majority of us find your Lou Dobbs reference to the non existant invasion offensive.

Latin America, Mexico in particular is rapidly taking it's rightful place as an equal in the global economy.

When I was in school, French was an electorate. Many of the girls took it and a few sissy boys. For what reason, who knows. I doubt if it did them any good.

Spanish would be a better option. I've had to learn it the hard way.

Despite living in Mexico for the past 15 years, my Spanish still sucks. But common sense allows me to travel freely throughout the country without any problems.

The same holds true when I am in Quebec. I know absolutely no French. But common sense and word association allows me to interact with the people.

People worry about the stupidest things. Like most of those who "hate" latinos and assume all are illegal.

I would challenge any of them to truthfully show where their lives have been affected by a Mexican. I doubt if they could do it!

And why worry about anyone else? American society could give a rat's ass about their fellow man or neighbors! And that's the facts Jax!

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"The topic is a Hate Crime occurred. Why? Because an ANTI Immigration Reformer was so filled with Hate againt anyone speaking Spanish that he punched an innocent man in the face. That is what the "Official English" law will bring! Unprovoked violence and hate!!"

I guess "hate" has become your favorite hyperbole. Many feel strongly about what is happening to our country, few take violent action. There is no reason to conclude that Official English will increase any crime against a Latino. In fact, I believe strongly that passage of such a bill would shed more light, and reduce the heat--people could relax to some extent and begin to search for solutions to the larger immigration issues. With Official English firmly established in a statute or constitutional amendment, citizens would feel less threatened when they go to the mall and hear nothing but a foreign language being spoken. Until then, it will be all too obvious what is happening to our country and their is little point in denying it. If you think a country of the nature of the Latin American countries will be good thing, I am truly sorry for you. If that were true, all Latins who are here would be on the next boat home. Something you need to spend more time thinking about.

Anonymous said...

Dee, where is your proof that if English is made our official language that violence would escalate against anyone speaking another language....where? It is just your usual exaggerations and biased opinions to keep us from having English as our official langauge. Anything that has anything to do with white-anglo culture you hate. It is only Latinos who seem to be objecting to it.

English is the official language of many states already, there rarely is if any violent incidents that have occured because someone spoke another language in any of those states. Latinos just can't stand for English to be our official language rather than Spanish and that is the bottom line. You all fool no one!

Anonymous said...

Why should any election documents be printed in any other langauge than English? Immigrants who have become citizens have to know English and only citizens can vote!!!

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "English IS already our National Language."

Where does it say that? Reference? Until English is fully established in statute or preferably in a constitutional amendment, it will never be our national or official language. It will only be a fading dream and the biggest mistake we ever made as we abandon it.

Dee said...

Ultima,
You are wrong, and this Hate Crime and all the comments I provided (which are but a microcosm of the number of ANTI commenters across the internet) prove it. Their belief is that if these bills pass, Spanish can no longer be spoken in the US.

Additionally, English is already the officially acknowledged as the National language.



ultima said...
Official English does not infringe in any way one's ability to study any foreign language or to use it in private without the expectation of government largess to facilitate it.

pcorn54 said...

Strange thing is that Canada has dual languages and it doesn't seem to bother the majority!

Oh the minority would like to make French the official language, but they have a snowballs chance in hell of making that happen, the same as making English the statuatory language.

Ho to Toronto in ethnic neighborhoods. You'll see street signs in English (large) French (smaller) and the ethnic language of the neighborhood. Again, it doesn't bother the Canadians.

Guess they have more important things to worry about, as should those of us in the lower 48

Dee said...

Read this:

English-only campaign funded by organization linked to 'hate groups'

as reported by the Tennessean

http://www.tennessean.com/article/

20090127/NEWS0206/90127008

Dee said...

From the article:

The group that unsuccessfully tried to force Metro to do business only in English received more than 90 percent of its funds from an out-of-state organization that has been linked to hate groups.

Nashville English First raised $89,722.76 for its campaign, according to campaign financial disclosures released today.

Of that, ProEnglish of Arlington, Va., contributed $82,500. A second donor, Nashville businessman Lee Beaman, gave $6,000, meaning two donors funded more than 98 percent of Nashville English First's campaign.

Dee said...

These laws are being promoted by RACIST HATE GROUPS!!

Anonymous said...

"Non-existant" invasion? Try using a dictionary for the definition of invasion. I would say that 20 plus million illegal aliens in this country constitutes and invasion.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "The violence provoking "Official English" bill is just a power play to step on the throat and a punch in the face to anyone who dares utter a word in Spanish on the streets of the US.

The bill calls for the end to printing any government documents in Spanish or any other language. The proponents call for an end to any form of translation. Their minions call to an END to the Spoken Word or else a Punch in the Face or worse!"

First of all, the punch occurred in the absence of such a bill not because of it.

Second, let's not judge everyone by a few isolated events. People naturally feel uncomfortable when they don't understand what is being said around them. As AZ said, these could be insults in some cases. Also given the state of the economy, this young man could have just been laid off and was wondering how he would be able to support himself or his family. Many would have reacted they way he did in those circumstances.

No one is calling for an end of translation. Anyone who wishes to do so can translate whatever they need or hire an interpreter to do it for them. There is no reason the taxpayers should have to pick up the tab. What a dumb idea.

While you are thinking about that you might give some attention to pcorn's foreign language post below which represents some of the grossest insults imaginable and, if you follow your own rule, should be cause for his immediate and permanent expulsion from this blog. I am surprised that if you are moderating comments, this one even got posted. This the foulest language I have had occasion to observe ever. Why did you allow it to be posted?

Dee said...

I posted this on dailykos as well and here is one commenters response:
"...the "Official English" movement isn't about all languages other than English, only some languages. Here's an example:

In 2003, the local paper in Racine, Wisconsin, decided to institute a Spanish page four times a week in an attempt to reach out to the growing Hispanic immigrant population of the area, help them integrate into local society, and even help them improve their English comprehension; at that point, something like 10% of the population of the county was Hispanic. Lots of people responded by canceling their subscriptions, saying that the paper was encouraging illegal immigration and pandering to immigrants' "refusal" to learn English. But many of those who canceled their subscriptions -- many of them long-term subscribers -- had never complained in the past when the paper had sections in Danish, Norwegian, or German."

pcorn54 said...

Ah Anon! The numbers keep getting larger don't they!

first 11 million, now 20 million! You nor anyone else has any idea.

But you know, I travel this country 300 days out of the year and I'll be damned if I see these millions of illegals you people speak of.

ultima said...

"The bill calls for the end to printing any government documents in Spanish or any other language."

If a knowledge of English is required for citizenship, why should taxpayer citizens be require to pay for the printing of government documents in any language other than English. How may official government documents in Latin America or any other foreign country are printed in English as a matter of course at taxpayer expense?

Jeez Louise, you'd think having an official language is totally unprecedented in the world!

Anonymous said...

So because you live in Mexico and found it necessary to learn Spanish, Americans living in their OWN country should learn Spanish also? Something is askewed in your comparison there. Most of us have no intention of moving to Mexico.

American lives have been affected negatively by ALL illegal aliens. Don't try to turn it into
just a Mexican hating fiasco. It has nothing to do with hate but our laws and how it is affecting our population growth, loss of jobs, depletion of our natural resources and demands on our social infrastructures.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote,"Anónimo, Hijo de la Chingada! Que ampliar sus conocimientos y ampliar su visión de la vida a estudiar el idioma español ..... Usted se sorprenderá de cómo un poco de aprendizaje que le facilitan la comprensión de lo que se dice acerca de usted a sus espaldas, Chingada Madre!!!! jijijiji!

Anonimo, succhiatore! Si tratterebbe di ampliare le vostre conoscenze e ampliare la tua visione della vita a studiare la lingua spagnola ..... Si sarebbe un po 'stupito come apprendimento consentirebbe di capire ciò che le persone sono state dicendo su di te dietro la schiena testa di merda!!!

Anonym das Arschloch! Es wäre Ihr Wissen und Ihre Einstellung zum Leben, um die spanische Sprache ..... Sie wären überrascht, wie wenig das Lernen würde es ermöglichen, Sie zu verstehen, was die Leute sagten über Sie hinter Ihrem Rücken der Dreckskerl!!!"

Dee please have pcorn publish this post in English so everyone can see what a foul minded person he is. Then toss him from your blog permanently. He has so grossly violated your rules that he deserves no less. You must have been asleep at the switch to allow this language from the sewer to appear on your blog. You should be ashamed!

Anonymous said...

Post some links to "anti" comments who think it will mean or want Official English to stop people from speaking any other langauge. We will be waiting.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Their belief is that if these bills pass, Spanish can no longer be spoken in the US."

No one can help what other poor souls think, at least not until we authorize thought police. Their belief is irrelevant. What is important is what the bill says. Does it have a number? If it is not strong enough on the point that other languages can be spoken, I will be the first one to write to the congress to tell them this point must be made crystal clear. I think you have gone off the deep end on this.

ultima said...

"Hijo de la Chingada! "
"Chingada Madre!!!! "
"Anonym das Arschloch! "

Does this mean we can use these terms too just as long as they are not in English?

ultima said...

pcor wrote,"Learn a little Spanish! It's a beautiful language"

Not very beautiful -- the way you used below.

ultima said...

"Strange thing is that Canada has dual languages and it doesn't seem to bother the majority!"

I guess you missed that part about some of the Western provinces wanting to secede and join the U.S. and the part about the separatist movement that remains in Quebec. What a waste for most Canadians?

Anonymous said...

I never mentioned 11 million. Most sources say that it is 20 million plus. It doesn't matter whether it is 11 or 20 million it is still an invasion.

How do you know from your travels who is in this country illegally or not anyway? Do you stop and ask them? Do they wear a shirt that says "illegal" on it? They just blend into our society. Everyone knows they are here. Have you been living in cave or something?

ultima said...

"reach out to the growing Hispanic immigrant population of the area, help them integrate into local society, and even help them improve their English comprehension"

I suspect it had just the opposite effect just like Spanish language TV. How does publication in Spanish help improve their English comprehension? This means they don't have to bother.

Dee said...

Another commenter from dailykos said:

Around here (0+ / 0-)
the overwhelmiing majority of the Latino population is Puerto Rican. Most of the undocumented in the area are Irish and Polish. But, and I hear this all the time from our geniuses in the "English-only" movement, we apparently have to do something about all these "illegal immigrants from Puerto Rico speaking Spanish."

ultima said...

"this hate filled law is forced, then what will happen is thousands of small American owned printing businesses will lose their government printing contracts. Thousands will be put out of work, left to collect unemployment."

This is a neutral law that merely asserts that it is in the national interest to have a single unifying language. If these small businesses can't make it without government contracts, perhaps they don't deserve to be in business. There are too many government contracts that waste the taxpayers money that could be better utilized by the taxpayers for their own purposes.

ultima said...

"However, English is the official language of the US and it is the international language of commerce. We don't need laws or Constitutional Amendments. That would open the door to censorship in libraries. Great books being removed. The Greek classics for instance. A stretch of the imagination but once you open the door, things happen you didn't expect."

There may always be unintended consequences but that should not be an excuse for not doing the right thing for our country.
We could use that excuse to do away with all laws. Sorry but no cigar.

Add to my list:

This bill specifically prohibits language censorship of any kind in library holdings in public or private libraries to which the public has access. However, the bill does not require that libary language quotas be established for the various foreign language holdings. A library is not required to have a certain percentage of its collections in any particular language nor needn't its purchases of new materials be governed by language considerations.

Dee said...

Anon,
Wrong, wrong wrong!!
Most credible sources, including the Census bureau said 12M last year and say 11M this year due to the significant drop in entry and repatriation.


Anonymous said...
I never mentioned 11 million. Most sources say that it is 20 million plus. It doesn't matter whether it is 11 or 20 million it is still an invasion.

Dee said...

READ MY POST. CLICK ON THE LINKS!!

Anonymous said...
Post some links to "anti" comments who think it will mean or want Official English to stop people from speaking any other langauge. We will be waiting.

Dee said...

Comments include:
. Richard: "who really cares what the hispanics want as they are mostly (by statistic standards) mainly illegals (criminals). put the thing to a vote and let's see how it comes out."
. Charles: "The "outstanding amigo award" should be renamed traitor of the year.The pockmarked slime--Chad Smith and roof pimp HarryTturnCoates qualify as dual slime of the year.Multicuturalist,gaseous,stooges--that aptly describes the Chadster and the pimp."
. Jim: "Speak American."

Or Consider the ANTI Immigration Reform website Alipac, discussing "Nasville votes against English only." (Ironically misspelling the word Nashville). Here are some of their comments:
. dman1200: "Dumbarse morons, have fun having your city overrun by a bunch of illegal alien degenerate thug gangbanger types. Have any of you morons seen or been to LA or CA in general lately? Well enjoy because that is your future. Hope you morons brushed up on your Espanol if you actually hope to compete with these family value loving job thieves in the not so distant future. That is if you can tolerate having your neighborhoods turned into a war zone."
. GA Patriot: "Tennessee is no where near a border state. The fact that they even brought up such an initiative as English only is astounding and an example of how pervasive the illegal population has infiltrated every part of our country. Legal immigrants speak English - period. "
. miguelina:Is it true that only 10% of Nashville voters turned out for this? Wonder how many were illegal aliens. This is a disgraceful slap in the face for unity!"

Dee said...

Ultima,
Wrong.
Their belief, those of the masses who monopolize the ANTI hate sites and the comment boards of Official English articles, are who are perpetrating the HATE CRIMES! This is extremely relevant to the discussion.

The push for these laws create the atmosphere of HATE against Latinos in our society. The Hate Crimes have to stop!!

ultima said...
Dee wrote, "Their belief is that if these bills pass, Spanish can no longer be spoken in the US."

No one can help what other poor souls think, at least not until we authorize thought police. Their belief is irrelevant.

Dee said...

Anon,
You do not control my site and you will not be allowed to hijack it either.
Stick to topic and QUIT trying to hijack my website.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Please reread my Mission.
I acknowledge I am a PRO Blogger and I support other PRO Bloggers.

While anonymous continues to try to hijack my website and steer us away from the topic of the blog, I still am open enough to allow him/her/it to post.

PCorn is a knowledgeable and passionate PRO blogger. He and I share many of the same PRO Humanitarian perspectives.

Anon was beyond the pale, frequently off topic, attempting to hijack my blog. He is enough to raise any logical person's ire. I am glad PCorn responds to Anon. That means less time I have to respond to it or delete their off topic posts.

Anonymous said...

Hi-jack your website? Ultima and I are merely asking you to tell corn man he isn't allowed to use vile language in your "civil" blog. How is that hi-jacking your website? There was no reason for you to delete my request but not delete Ultima's same request about corn man's comments. So when you are you going to tell corn man what both Ultima and I requested? You have no problem telling off those who don't share your political views, do you? Are you going to be biased and a hypocrite and delete my request or are you going to play fair and treat everyone equally? Either way you still have Ultima's same request to deal with. You owe him that much.

Dee said...

Anon,
You are no Ultima. Quit trying to link yourself up to him.
You are running solo here buddy, as everyone else does.
You are irreverent, illogical and barely stick to topic.
You constantly repeat the same ole ANTI rhetoric.
While I disagree with Ultima and Arizonian on the Immigration issues, they are both very intelligent, logical posters who stick to topic, provide urls as applicable, and above all are civil and respectful.

You could learn a lesson from both of them.

pcorn54 said...

How do you know it is "nasty" language?

I thought you were too "American" to lower yourself and learn foreign languages!

Perhaps you need to return to Willy G's site for more instructions? Although I imagine he is much too busy with his beg-a-thon to help you much.

ultima said...

I didn't realize the rules only applied to el movimiento members. I should think you would want to exclude all filthy language. Oh well, chingda! if that's the kind of language you prefer.

For such an egregious violation of your so-called rules, expulsion should have been immediate and permanent and you know it.

ultima said...

"the overwhelmiing majority of the Latino population is Puerto Rican."

Does anyone have a URL to back this up or is this just another unsupported lie. I would guess that our two largest states CA and TX are not overrun with Puerto Ricans.

ultima said...

" thought you were too "American" to lower yourself and learn foreign languagesI mentioned above that I had studied both German and Spanish, at least enough to recognize filth when I see it.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Well ultima, we are not in "Mexico Norte" and the majority of us find your Lou Dobbs reference to the non existant invasion offensive."

You are familiar with the term extrapolation, aren't you? We are talking about the rather obvious trend in our society resulting from higher fertility rates and immigration's unarmed invasion, particularly from Latin America, but those from Mexico and their progeny are equal in numbers to the next ten countries of origin combined. Check the demographic stats for Mexifornia and when you have digested them you will see our future. We are not talking about Mexico Norte today but the one in our future.

"Latin America, Mexico in particular is rapidly taking it's rightful place as an equal in the global economy."

This may be true of Brazil but I read something recently that Mexico's oil production is declining and this does not bode well for it anemic economy, already unable to provide jobs for its people. Some even think Mexico will go bankrupt if that picture is correct regarding its oil production. Its burgeoning population requires more not less in terms of national income.

"When I was in school, French was an electorate. Many of the girls took it and a few sissy boys. For what reason, who knows. I doubt if it did them any good."

I have traveled extensively in Europe and in most places found that the people's English was better than my foreign language ability. Nevertheless, I was able order food, get a room for the night, etc. without difficulty. In France the first thing I learned related to getting a coffee refill. I held up my cup to signal the waitress. She ignored me until I repeated what a heard a gentleman nearby say, "Sil vous plait [sp?], madam." That got immediate results.

My German acquaintances used to say, "After three beers, you speak perfect German!" Hardly the truth.

See, isn't that a much more reasonable way to have a converstion rather than resorting to expletives?

"Spanish would be a better option. I've had to learn it the hard way.

Despite living in Mexico for the past 15 years, my Spanish still sucks. But common sense allows me to travel freely throughout the country without any problems."

I agree. I worked at a canning factory as a teenager and ultimately ended up in the cafeteria where I had occasion to come in contact with some Mexican migrant workers. I used to have to get them out of bed in the morning. I found the most effective way to do that was to run through the barracks yelling all the Spanish obscenities they had taught me. They would come thundering out of the barracks throwing rocks at me but it worked. Usually after a weekend in a neighboring town, they wanted "huevos crudos" for breakfast.

"The same holds true when I am in Quebec. I know absolutely no French. But common sense and word association allows me to interact with the people."

I know less French than Spanish and German. I used to correspond with my German acquaintances in German but we finally decided I would write in English and they could write in German. That worked out well.

"People worry about the stupidest things. Like most of those who "hate" latinos and assume all are illegal.

I would challenge any of them to truthfully show where their lives have been affected by a Mexican. I doubt if they could do it!"

Although nobody really knows, as you have pointed out, there are credible estimates out there of 12-20million illegal aliens. Some say half are visa overstays--does that really make a difference? People worry about their way of life, quality of life, standard of living, language, ideals, culture, concepts of government,etc. if they believe they are being threatened. It seems to me this is a human reaction to their perceptions of what is happening in this country. In my own neighborhood, the roofing, painting and construction crews changed from anglo or black in just a few years, before the area was built out. Your ten years in Mexico have clearly given you a different perspective. It is a mistake to consider everyone who is sensitive about this subject to be a fringe kook racist. I have written extensively here and on my own blogs on all the reasons we should all oppose the obvious trends in immigration and border security.

Blog addresses
The Obama Watch
http://obama-ultimablogspotcom.blogspot.com/
Pictures at an Exhibition
http://ultima-pics.blogspot.com/
Notes from America
http://notes-ultima.blogspot.com/
Hall of Dishonor - Immigration Villains
http://hallofdishonor-ultima.blogspot.com/
Hall of Honor – Immigration Heroes
http://ultima-stream3.blogspot.com/
Immigration Talk with an American
http://szczecin-ultima.blogspot.com/
Enough is enough!
http://szczecin-ultima.blogspot.com/




And why worry about anyone else? American society could give a rat's ass about their fellow man or neighbors! And that's the facts Jax!

janetmartinez1205 said...

To the anonymous comment, definitely!
-Believe it or not Mexicans Americans pay taxes too ( their income includes the billions you talk about). I believe it is too late to try to make English the official language when there are many Spanish speaking “AMERICANS” who reside in the United States, and who also contribute to paying their taxes just like every other ethnicity( majority or not).

My dad for example is Spanish speaking only, and pays his taxes every year. That’s one example out of many in the same situation. Just as the government likes to spend money where it doesn’t concern us, I believe it our right to have our families accommodated for.
Janet

ultima said...

"majority of us find your ...reference to the nonexistent invasion offensive."

I would need a valid poll to believe that the majority of Americans find facts such as this offensive. Perhaps, in your little corner of the world where all is sweetness and light and nobody cares about our country but not among the majority if they were given a chance to fully express their feelings without fear of being called a racist, nativist, etc. or worse.

pcorn54 said...

I'll take a couple of your points Ultima.

Let's start with jobs. Sure the face of the trades, services are changing. Want to blame the Mexicans? Not their fault!

Blame the American workers in part and the employers on the other hand.

This generation and mine have gotten lazy! They want the most for the least. The most pay for the least amount of effort. Employers cannot pay what American workers demand and still stay competitive and in business.

In the trade industries. Todays kids and those of my generation have no desires to learn the hands on trades of their parents. In Mexico, much of the construction is done by hand in the old world style. Beautiful and durable. And the Mexicans give a days work for a days pay. And they're not working for nickels on the dollar as some would try to make us believe.

As I travel around this country, I am seeing help wanted signs all over the place, and not just low paying minimum wage jobs either. High paying tech jobs, skilled and semi skilled labor jobs in the trades. Where are the 8% of Americans that are unemployed to fill these jobs?

There is no "Mexifornia", "Aztlan" or these other fantasy places as you are well aware. I will grant you California has a unique set of problems not seen in the other three border states.

These people aren't our enemies. They are taking nothing away from you or your family and yes, living in Mexico, which I consider a privlige, does give me a unique and true perspective of the problem.

For instance, there are not millions waiting to cross the border and invade the US as you people put it.

Go to Nuevo Laredo to the places set up by charities as a stopping point for those going north. You might see a half dozen souls in the places.

Drive Blvd Colosio in Nuevo Laredo that parallels the Rio Bravo. You will not see many if any people lining the banks waiting to slip into the water.

In Mexico, I see people taking responsibility for their lives. Welfare is unheard of there and as such, is not something commonly known about the US. They come here to work,and before 9/11, would leave never to return after a year or so.

The immigration from the south is cyclical and has been for more than 75 years. They come, they work, they return home. We welcome them when we need their labor and kick them in the ass like a cur dog when their usefulness is over with.

And while we welcome them when we need them, we still treat them like sub humans and avoid them when at all possible. Look around you and tell me I'm lying. History is a witness to this!

I don't give a damn whether anyone has to press one for english or 69 for swahilli! I've got more important worries.

It doesn't bother me to see bi-lingual signs or anything else that annoys you people.

On the border, in Texas, we all get along and spend our time minding our own business instead of meddling in others affairs. More people should take that attitude.

ultima said...

How it is possible for our policy makers and others to continue to ignore the elephant in the room: the impact of U.S. population growth on the depletion of natural resources especially arable land, water, and oil, the output of greenhouse gases, and national energy consumption? Don't they get it that this is about numbers not race.

The Arizonian said...

pcorn said:
"Strange thing is that Canada has dual languages and it doesn't seem to bother the majority!"

Actually, that is only in Quebec, at least in law.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Why on earth do ANTIs feel threatened to hear words spoken in Spanish?
Here you are proving my point. This ammendment is NOT about stopping the printing of government documents.
You yourself PROVE that it IS about stopping ANYONE from Speaking Spanish in public so that their ears and feel "threatened."


Ultima said..
With Official English firmly established in a statute or constitutional amendment, citizens would feel less threatened when they go to the mall and hear nothing but a foreign language being spoken.

Dee said...

Ultima,
I believe the koscommenter was from NY and they were referencing how ludicrous the "English Movement" was when they said:
But, and I hear this all the time from our geniuses in the "English-only" movement, we apparently have to do something about all these "illegal immigrants from Puerto Rico speaking Spanish."


ultima said...
"the overwhelmiing majority of the Latino population is Puerto Rican."

Does anyone have a URL to back this up or is this just another unsupported lie. I would guess that our two largest states CA and TX are not overrun with Puerto Ricans.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Wrong. The punch occurred because this ANTI was so consumed with hate, most likely stirred up by the ANTI immigration reform websites, that he took his rage out on an innocent man talking on his cell phone.
This HATE Talk has to stop. The only people pushing "Official English" are hate groups like Tanton's group "ProEnglish."

Ultima said...
First of all, the punch occurred in the absence of such a bill not because of it.

Dee said...

Janet,
Welcome!
You are right.
The bill is purely to get people to stop speaking spanish even though they put up a false front saying it is about printing government documents.
Racist John Tanton's hate groups support the group "ProEnglish" that are promoting the passage of these bills.
More and more people are understanding this and that is why these bills are getting defeated in places like Nashville.

pcorn54 said...

Speaking of Tanton, how strange is it that the agenda put forth by this cretin almost 30 years ago has come to pass since 2002?

If you read the report by the SPLC, it is a road map for what is happening now.

http://immigrationclearinghouse.org/?page_id=592

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "The only people pushing "Official English" are hate groups like Tanton's group "ProEnglish."

I am a "people". I do not support racist organizations whether they can be classified as hate groups or not. And I have long been a proponent of Official English for good and substantial reasons. Why is it so many other countries have an official language but to advocate for Official English is considered "hate"? Isn't it possible to favor Official English without all this trash talk from the el movimiento members? Isn't such trash talk a form of "hate"?

ultima said...

"Well ultima, we are not in "Mexico Norte" "

Not yet, but extrapolate Mexifornia to the other 49 states 50, 100 and 200 years from now when your descendents are studying the history of the U.S. and scratching their head to understand how we could have been so stupid.

Since you have lived in Mexico for 10 years, does that mean you are married to one or to that culture? Would that explain your bias as it does Dee's?

ultima said...

"our geniuses in the "English-only" movement"

The term "English-only" is not the thrust of any movement. That term is a form of hyperbole. The correct one is "Official English" with all the caveats I have listed here.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "The bill is purely to get people to stop speaking spanish even though they put up a false front saying it is about printing government documents."

What bill? What is its number? Where can I read its text? Who are its sponsors in Congress? Do they agree with your assessment of the objective of the bill or is this just another example of the Dee spin?

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "The bill is purely to get people to stop speaking spanish even though they put up a false front saying it is about printing government documents."

Nonsense! The bill may promote English and provide an incentive for people to learn English but you have a huge chip on your shoulder and find a boogey man every where you look. You know, if you think about it, no bill could get through Congress that says no one is allowed to speak a foreign language in the U.S..

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Wrong. The punch occurred because this ANTI was so consumed with hate, most likely stirred up by the ANTI immigration reform websites, that he took his rage out on an innocent man talking on his cell phone."

How could you possibly know what his motivation was? I offered an possible alternate explanation, not as justification for his act, but by way of attempting to understand what energized him. It is grossly overstating the case when you continually and consistently attribute them to "hate". That word has lost all of its meaning in everyone's vocabulary if that is the only explanation for every act of mankind that we disagree with. It's your blog and you can rant and rave as much as you like, but that doesn't make it right or true.

These are strictly ad hominem arguments and statements on your part designed to appeal to emotion rather than reason. Are you copying Tanton's approach which is based on the same kind of appeal?

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Why on earth do ANTIs feel threatened to hear words spoken in Spanish?"

I don't know. I'm just trying to understand what is happening? You can see it on the faces of other people in the mall. They feel threatened by what they don't understand. They feel threatened by what appear to be a flood of foreign-tongued people who by all appearance appear to be taking over the country. Its not so hard to see why they might feel threatened?

A rather comical incident of the opposite side of that coin is the American tourist visiting Germany who complains about all the people speaking German instead of English.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "English-only campaign funded by organization linked to 'hate groups'"

Kinda like some of the contributors to the Clinton and Obama campaigns.

Dee said...

Ultima,
The truth is clear as a punch in the face when you are making a personal phone call on your cell phone. It is as clear as the hateful comments appearing in comment sections of articles discussing Official English or in ANTI websites discussing Official English.

Even though the Offical English bills are veiled under government printing costs, the reality can be seen in every comment section or nose punch.

The Official English bills include those turned down recently in Kentucky or in the failed
English Language Unity Act of 2005.

No spin! Just reality and it is as clear as the punch in this man's face!

Vicente Duque said...

This is the TOPMOST in IMBECILITY !

Before knowing about this assault, I wrote an article, about the Inferiority Complexes, the Fear, Paranoia and the Stupidity of those that wanted to forbid foreign languages, anywhere in the world.


The Imbecility of Forbiding Languages and attacking Languages - Paranoia, Fear and Inferiority Complexes, Inadequacies

I also wrote this many days ago, on a similar attack in Seattle, Washington :

A Black Man was attacked for speaking in a language other than English on a cell phone, Death Threat in Seattle, Washington

Again, Imbecility has reached the Highest Level in Planet Earth's History.

And not only IMBECILITY, but paranoia, inferiority complexes, inadequacies, fear, xenophobia, racism, hate, hatred.

The troubled sons of Dysfunctional Families.

When in all Civilized Nations of Earth, Mayors, Governors and City Councilors are promoting Foreign Languages, learning Foreign Customs, Foods, learning to help foreigners.

When mayors, Governors and City councilors around the Whole World organize contests for children to learn foreign languages, to learn to be salesmen or saleswomen, business people, competitors.

So that Children can participate later when adults in Global Competition for Markets.

Vicente Duque

Christa said...

"When in all Civilized Nations of Earth, Mayors, Governors and City Councilors are promoting Foreign Languages, learning Foreign Customs, Foods, learning to help foreigners."

And yet, Vincente, the vast majority of nations in the world, including France, also have an official language. In fact, there aren't too many countries more protective of their language than the French. This does not prevent their citizens from learning other languages, does it? Nor does it prohibit any of the citizens in the other countries with an official language from learning other languages.

What it does do is encourage immigrants to their nations to learn the unifying national language and facilitate cohesiveness rather than linguistic balkanization.

Funny how Mexico and every other country South of the border has an official language and nobody gets worked up over that. I wonder why that is.

sylvia said...

Another question comes to mind. How many people are being punched in the face in the other countries who have an official language for not speaking the official language out in public? I am sure it happens occasionally but is that reason enough for a country not to have an official language? I don't think so. Should we not have banks because some people might rob them?

Vicente Duque said...

Sorry, Lady Christa :

But I have been in countries "South of the Border" and many others that promote constant learning of Foreign Languages, and encourage signs in shops, stores, markets or supermarkets, in trains, vehicles, subways, metros, etc ...

And where they get you a translator if you are in trouble. And you can send petitions and deal in foreign languages.

I do not have to assume, because I have been there. I have seen the contests for children, and the TV and Radio programs paid by Governments to encourage people to learn languages.

And I am talking of "South of the Border" and I have been there.

So I do not have to assume. And I do not have to enter into microscopic details. Those countries are Xenophilic.

Raciality.com

Murderor.com

Tortural.com

Vicente Duque

sylvia said...

Other countries can do what they want but that doesn't mean that we should or have to do the same thing here. I am sure that many of those countries that you mentioned have an official language even though they encourage their citizens to learn other languages. I guess I don't get your point. None of this has anything to do with making English our official langauge.

Dee said...

christa/sylvia/anon,
Official English (OE) is being politicized by the hatefilled ANTI Group PRO English, a John Tanton group.

It is abundantly clear by the comments in articles across the internet about OE or in ANTI websites discussing OE, that this is their effort to stop anyone from speaking anything but English in our country, OR ELSE. It is as clear as a punch in your face!

As Vicente said, most countries "promote constant learning of Foreign Languages, and encourage signs in shops, stores, markets or supermarkets, in trains, vehicles, subways, metros, etc"

Our country did too before this wave of xenophobia and restrictionist hate and violence promoted by Tanton's Hate Groups began!

Dee said...

As more and more people know and understand the true motives of Hate groups like PROEnglish, more locations will defeat such legislation, as Nashville just did.

It will never pass Nationally. Nor will any legislation to overturn Jus Soli.

Hate Groups should learn to STOP THE HATE!

Christa said...

Vincente, the point is that other countries have an official language, immigrants who move to their countries are expected to learn them, and yet their citizens are not discouraged from learning other languages if they choose.

I, too, have been outside of the U.S. and know of which I speak.

I Travel for JOOLS said...

Keep up the hate rhetoric against people who only want their country preserved and you will lose. Just because we want to maintain our English language is not a crime, certainly not a hate crime. It is a matter of assimilation. If we moved to Mexico and screamed that every ballot, every application form, every school text be in English we would be laughed out of the country.

You can find bad actors in every society. The guy who threw the punch was a bad actor. Paint all of us with that brush and you're going to alienate a much larger group of people than you think.

sylvia said...

I don't know who John Tanton is and I don't care what groups are promoting English as our official language. I only know how I feel about it as an individual American. English is a part of our heritage and if other countries have an official language then why shouldn't we? I already pointed out that other countries that have an official language do not have common occurances of people being punched in the face for speaking another language in those countries, only perhaps occasionally just like here but that isn't enough reason to not have an official language. We can't help that some people cannot control their feelings and emotions. Why punish all Americans for the faults of some?

pcorn54 said...

Other than France Christa, most countries have a "De facto" official language, as does the US
(DE FACTO - in reality or fact) That is good enough for other countries as it should be for this one.

Mexico has a "de facto" official language of Spanish, since Spanish is the predominant language. Nonetheless, the second article of the 1917 Constitution of Mexico defines the country as a pluricultural nation, and recognizes the right of the indigenous peoples to "preserve and enrich their languages..." and promotes "bilingual and intercultural education".

Isn't it strange that a country (Mexico) that the antis profess to be an expert about yet know absolutely nothing about can be so progressive.

Mexico also teaches English as a required course in all of it's public schools, from primary on, without recrimination nor accusations of loss of sovereignty and other nonsense you hear from the anti in the US.

http://www.elmanana.com.mx/notas.asp?id=22722

If I speak English in Mexico, I don't get punched in the face. I find it refreshing that many in that country take it as an invitation to practice what English they know and surprisingly we communicate. But then, Mexicans, in Mexico or not petty hate mongers as some we find in the US.

Lou said...

I agree sylvia.

pcorn54 said...

The "pluricultural" composition of Mexico, according to the Constitution, has its roots in the indigenous peoples.

However, apart from Spanish, the government does not recognize any other non-indigenous language spoken by immigrants and their descendants, even if the number of speakers is greater than that of some of the 62 national languages.

Historically, Mexican laws curbed the public usage of foreign languages in mass media (radio and TV), public road signs, business storefronts and advertising billboards.

Mexicans found it ironic on the increasing usage and social toleration of Spanish being widely spoken in Mexican-American/Latino communities in the border towns and across the southwest US.

Some of the non-indigenous languages spoken in Mexico are:

English (by English-speaking immigrants, as well as by the residents of border states), For example, the American Mormon colony of Nueva Casas Grandes of Chihuahua settled in the late 1800s serves as a testimonial to the country's Anglo-Americans who favored living in Mexico.

Also German (mainly in Mexico City and Puebla), Arabic, Russian, Venetian (in Chipilo), French, Catalan, Basque, Galician, Asturian, Chinese, Hebrew, Korean, Ladino, Plautdietsch, Armenian and others in smaller numbers. Of these, Venetian, French, and Plautdietsch, among others, are spoken in isolated communities or villages, while the rest are spoken by immigrants or their descendants that tend to live in the larger cities and towns. Many of these languages are superior in number of speakers compared to those of indigenous speakers in the nation such as German dialects, Italian dialects, and French dialects compared to many native dialects in Mexico, but they are not protected by law. nor should they be.

pcorn54 said...

Sylvia, why not educate yourself on who John Tanton, that vile, rascist little cretin of a sub human.

http://immigrationclearinghouse.org/?page_id=592

Read the entire article and think about what is happening now to what he proposed back in the 80's to his handful of supporters.

What he proposed then and what is happening now is no coincidence and I refuse to believe that so many people can hate without cause, especially when the hate mongers use one common thread of thought, originating from Tanton's letter's of the 80's

Lou said...

Janet said:
"My dad for example is Spanish speaking only, and pays his taxes every year. That’s one example out of many in the same situation. Just as the government likes to spend money where it doesn’t concern us, I believe it our right to have our families accommodated for."

Janet, do you think we should accommodate all non-English speaking American citizens? Should we do this for Greeks, Italians, Germans, Chinese, Japanese--the list could go on and on. The United States needs English to be made the "official language" because we are people who come from many different countries. Having an official language would unite us, not divide us. In this country, one may learn and converse in as many languages that one wants to. But having English as the offical language would bring us together as a people of a
"UNITED" country. Why don't you teach your father English so that he can speak the language of the country that he is now a citizen of?

Dee said...

Jools,
The Hate Crime was committed by the racist who slugged the innocent cell phone caller in the face. Why aren't you chastising him? Or all of the commenters who pass along so much hate? Read the post!


I Travel for JOOLS said...
Keep up the hate rhetoric against people who only want their country preserved and you will lose. Just because we want to maintain our English language is not a crime, certainly not a hate crime.

Dee said...

Sylvia,
You view a man minding his own business speaking spanish on his cell phone as a punishment to you?
How telling.


Sylvia said...
Why punish all Americans for the faults of some?

Dee said...

PCorn,
It is obvious Anon has decided to rejoin using the aliases sylvia, christa and lou. Sylvia even acknowledged by finishing Christas previous comment. Click on their names and see how new they are. Kind of pitiful!

Lou said...

pcorn said:

"Mexico also teaches English as a required course in all of it's public schools, from primary on, without recrimination nor accusations of loss of sovereignty and other nonsense you hear from the anti in the US."

pcorn,
If this statement is true, then why
aren't the 12 million plus illegals here able to speak English? Why do we have "press one for English" and option to press another for Spanish before you even here the press one for English? Maybe dee could research this and find out why people lose their English skills when they cross the border?

Dee said...

I think Anon/sylvia, christa and lou are all actually Sandra, a very angry and hateful ANTI. She loves to follow me on other blog comment sections as well. She certainly has a lot of time on her hands and is filled with hate.

She should start her own blog! But then no one would ever read her then what would she do for attention.

Dee said...

PCorn,
No need to respond to her. I'm going to moderate. This should put her in a real tailspin as it did the last time I did this.

Dee said...

Back to Topic.
The point of this blog is, an innocent man was punched in the face for innocently talking on his cell phone, in spanish.
This type of hatred can be seen on any comment section of articles discussing Official English or ANTI websites doing the same.
I provided examples.

What is interesting is, the Anonymous poster (including all of its aliases) has never once chastised the perpetrator of this crime. Instead, just rants about English Only being its right.

ultima said...

“Let's start with jobs. Sure the face of the trades, services are changing. Want to blame the Mexicans? Not their fault! Blame the American workers in part and the employers on the other hand.”
It must be nice to be completely blameless. While illegals may not work for nickels on the dollar, neither are they working for wages at the American union worker standard, the standard that built the American middle class. Likewise, when I have had to go to the emergency room, I found it to be crowded with Mexicans. Now there is no way of knowing that they were illegals but I believe it is generally accepted that few employers offer illegal aliens health care coverage. And why would they if they can always find those who will work without any benefits or be turned in to ICE and simply offload those costs on the taxpayers and those with ever increasing health care costs.
Then there is the little matter of violating the border without an offer of employment or even with an offer of employment. This, of course, is meaningless if you are an advocate of open borders and the abdication of national sovereignty ala the North American Union or UN directed globalism.
Clearly, government and employers are also culpable and should be punished. Any president who fails to enforce the law should be impeached. Department heads should be removed and individual agents cashiered.

ultima said...

“This generation and mine have gotten lazy! They want the most for the least. The most pay for the least amount of effort. Employers cannot pay what American workers demand and still stay competitive and in business.”
I agree with the first part of this. Unfortunately, you are right. This is partly the result of the general affluence of American families and partly the result of the neolib expansion of well-disguised welfare programs: the graduated income tax, the earned income credit, Medicaid, giving tax refunds to those who haven’t paid any taxes, food stamps, aid to dependent children, etc. All of these tend to undermine the work ethic, reduce incentives to give a day’s work for a day’s pay, and the willingness to take any job to put food on the table. I lived most of my life when none of these existed and my father was glad to get any work he could to support his family. We had no health insurance and there wasn’t even a doctor in town. If all the foregoing benefits had been available, do you think that would have increased or decreased my father’s work ethic?

ultima said...

“In the trade industries. Todays kids and those of my generation have no desires to learn the hands on trades of their parents. In Mexico, much of the construction is done by hand in the old world style. Beautiful and durable. And the Mexicans give a days work for a days pay. And they're not working for nickels on the dollar as some would try to make us believe.”
Yes, the demise of the old apprenticeship programs is also part of the cause. Some of my cousins were cabinet makers and they served long apprenticeships until they mastered their craft. They even traveled about the country working for various masters to learn their techniques and perfect their skills.

ultima said...

“As I travel around this country, I am seeing help wanted signs all over the place, and not just low paying minimum wage jobs either. High paying tech jobs, skilled and semi skilled labor jobs in the trades. Where are the 8% of Americans that are unemployed to fill these jobs?”
Queuing up in the unemployment offices I suspect. They wouldn’t be so choosy if they weren’t eligible for unemployment benefits—not that I am opposed to them. But that program does create some disincentive to take a lesser job, a disincentive that wouldn’t be there if one knew his or her next meal depended on accepting whatever is available. During the great depression men were literally willing to leave their homes and go wherever jobs could be found, often as the only way to save their families from starvation. Before that time in the 1890s another recession caused my grandfather to leave his family and go halfway across the country to find work only to become ill and die. He, by the way, was a skilled craftsman.

ultima said...

“There is no "Mexifornia", "Aztlan" or these other fantasy places as you are well aware. I will grant you California has a unique set of problems not seen in the other three border states.”
Well, of course, there isn’t per se. But read and think about Prof. Victor Hansen’s book: “Mexifornia: a state of becoming” before you think of Mexifornia as a fantasy place. He has lived among, taught and intermarried with Mexicans and thus has a unique perspective on the situation in la la land. The book certainly rang a bell with me but it has its leftwing critics. Another worthwhile book is: Mark Krikorian, “The New Case Against Immigration”. I don’t think either of these guys are right wing kooks or purveyors of “hate”. I hope you will give them a fair reading and thoughtful consideration.
In the case of Aztlan, it is useful to read the writings of the Aztlanistas and the charter of MEChA to get an idea of what some of the Mexiphiles are thinking.

ultima said...

“These people aren't our enemies. They are taking nothing away from you or your family and yes, living in Mexico, which I consider a privlige, does give me a unique and true perspective of the problem.”
I am curious about why you are living in Mexico and about the reason for your travels about the U.S., Canada and Mexico. I am surprised that during your travels you have been so unobservant. Like someone once said about New York City: It sounded like the UN. [Perhaps the Tower of Babel is a closer analogy.] Strange you consider it a privilege to live in Mexico. Is it because you are retired and benefit from lower costs, servants, etc. or do you have spousal connections there? If it is such a wonderful privilege, why isn’t the cross-border traffic mostly in the other direction, back home. Your perspective perhaps also allows you to visit the hinterlands and observe the abject poverty of the unprivileged class. Perhaps you are among the privileged class and don’t have to worry about the unwashed and restless masses being dumped in our backyard. Do you live in a gated community with others of the privileged class? Do you place high value on Mexico’s oligarchical society?

ultima said...

“For instance, there are not millions waiting to cross the border and invade the US as you people put it.”
You could have fooled me. How did we get from the one million or so illegals given amnesty in 1986 to the 12-20 million by various estimates we have today? One meaning of the word invasion is: “encroachment by intrusion or trespass”. That is the sense in which we use it. The reason there aren’t millions waiting to cross the border is because they are already here. And who, if he is waiting for the opportunity to cross the border, would advertise that fact. You don’t even have to look on that side of the border. Look in the right areas in Tucson and you will find plenty queuing up at the transit point for the coyotes to send them on their way to the interior. I believe the BP advertises that they apprehend a million every year and that that is only a fraction of those they think really are on their way Norte. I guess these folks must magically appear on this side of the border, maybe they are beamed up in Mexico and down in the U.S.. They just say, “Beam me up Pedro.”

ultima said...

“Go to Nuevo Laredo to the places set up by charities as a stopping point for those going north. You might see a half dozen souls in the places.

Drive Blvd Colosio in Nuevo Laredo that parallels the Rio Bravo. You will not see many if any people lining the banks waiting to slip into the water.”
Where in the world are all those apprehended by the BP coming from?

ultima said...

“In Mexico, I see people taking responsibility for their lives. Welfare is unheard of there and as such, is not something commonly known about the US. They come here to work, and before 9/11, would leave never to return after a year or so.”
So you maintain that 9/11 is responsible for the millions of illegals in this country. The border is so porous that 9/11 probably made no long term difference. Anyone apprehended at the regular ports of entry are merely escorted back across the border, only to make multiple tries in the same day until they finally succeed at a 97% rate.

ultima said...

“The immigration from the south is cyclical and has been for more than 75 years. They come, they work, they return home. We welcome them when we need their labor and kick them in the ass like a cur dog when their usefulness is over with.”
That might better convey the message that we are serious about our borders and will catch you and send you home after we put you to work for six months on border infrastructure. Of course, you know we aren’t doing that and even those who are repatriated are treated fairly and humanely in accordance with their status as illegal aliens. The government does not use “their usefulness is over with” as a criterion for repatriation as far as I know although Dee likes to remind us of “Operation Wetback” that was briefly in effect after WW II when we had millions of GIs returning who were looking for work. If they come, they work, and then go home, there wouldn’t be millions of them. That is prima facie evidence that you are wrong about this. They come, they stay, the visit Mexico or communicate by phone, and return to stay permanently and ultimately seek to bring Tia Ultima and all their other relatives to join them as permitted by chain immigration rules.

ultima said...

“And while we welcome them when we need them, we still treat them like sub humans and avoid them when at all possible. Look around you and tell me I'm lying. History is a witness to this!”
I have never seen anyone treat them like subhumans. This is pure propaganda of el movimiento. When a contractor sent some around to paint my house I took them out some cold beer. Generally, they are well-accepted as human beings even when their work status is suspect. There are of course those who create isolated incidents like those Dee likes to post. There is a certain segment of our population that feels threatened by people speaking a foreign language, especially if they are here in large numbers. They also see the rogue’s gallery of the most wanted and see the high proportion of Hispanics. I believe California’s prisons are full of them. There have been several homicides, rapes, etc. in this area. You can’t blame folks for being wary.

pcorn54 said...

Let me put it this way "Lou"!

My 16 year old step-daughter, who carries a 9.5 gpa in Mexico's public school system and has graduated in the top 1% of her classes her entire academic career, and who makes straight A's in English, understands English, writes English and refuses to speak English, because she doesn't like the language.

I was in Celaya GTO a couple of years ago and accompanied a friend to a parent teacher conference. As the meeting was winding down, I asked the director if he spoke English. He spoke excellent English and we sat and conversed the rest of the afternoon. As he told me, many in Mexico speak English but have little occasion to practice it or use it.

With the so called "illegals" in the US, the majority are from southern states, from rural areas where if English is taught in the schools, it is taught by unqualified instructors. And these same people tend to drop out of school early to help support the family.

Couple that with the ones that try to speak English and are monked by some because they don't pronounce the vowels and consonants of our language as we do. People tend to make fun of them or make disparaging comments towards them.

Under those circumstances I don't blame them for not speaking English. And when they are together in their own groups, who the hell cares what language they speak. They're not talking to you.

You know, when I am in Mexico, with my poor Spanish, if people made fun of my pronunciation and forming of sentences, something I have trouble with, I probably would keep my mouth shut too and stay in the background.

But I have never experienced that with any Mexican. Most have been very helpful and even apologized for correcting me, which I appreciate. I even had a Transito Commander in Monterrey one time apoligize to me for not being able to speak English when I went to him with a small problem.

Press "1 for English" has nothing to do with Mexicans or Mexico. It is a courtesy extended by businesses and government agencies to make interaction easier and to increase business.

And no, in Mexico, they don't have "Press 1 for English", but you know, I've found when I want to do business with someone there, especially my cable company, when I tell them I want someone who speaks English, they can usually accomodate me!

ultima said...

“I don't give a damn whether anyone has to press one for english or 69 for swahilli! I've got more important worries.

It doesn't bother me to see bi-lingual signs or anything else that annoys you people.”
So much for your regard for your fellow Americans for whom this seems like an unnecessary irritant in their lives together with all the other buttons one has to press to finally get to the answer or person you want. I guess you like that aspect too. Oh, that’s right you have more important things to worry about, don’t you. You would never get irritated by the impersonal phone system.
How would you know whether bi-lingual signs annoys me?

ultima said...

“On the border, in Texas, we all get along and spend our time minding our own business instead of meddling in others affairs. More people should take that attitude.”
And more Americans should be interested in the national interest and sovereignty. Too bad there are a few who seem to have a higher loyalty sometime ethnocentric.

sylvia said...

pcorn, if this Tanton person is a racist, then why would would I want to learn about him? I don't care what racists say or do. It has nothing to do with me.

dee, what I meant is that it is punishing all Americans by not allowing them an official language just because some people cannot control themselves by punching others.

pcorn54 said...

Yeah right ultima, Unions! The bane of the American worker! Think GM and the Big three which are almost out of business in large part due to legacy costs.

I'm in Flint Mi tonight. I was at a GM plant this afternoon. Union workers standing around with their thumbs up their butts waiting to polish a wheel are install a bolt at $75.00 an hour in wages and benefits.

The majority of the illegals crossing the border already have jobs before they cross. They know the wages offered and paid and they ain't minimum wage. $10-12 bucks an hour depending on the industry.

And when they get here and that is not what's offered, they walk!

There are recruiters in Mexico recruiting workers for employers under the H1B program. And word gets around who is hiring and what the pay is. Call it the Taco Telegraph or whatever.

If you're waiting for the good union wages that put this country where it is today, don't be holding your breath.

Look at the Japanese and Korean manufacturers who have established factories in the south. Non union, good wages and benefits, excellent working conditions and no unions. A well trained and willing work force. That's where you're good union jobs have gone. It ain't the Mexicans mano

pcorn54 said...

Sylvia, My point was this.

John Tanton wrote his WITAN memos in the late 70's and 80's. If you read them, you will see what he proposed almost 30 years ago, is happening now.

And otherwise good people have fallen for his rhetoric hook line and sinker without thinking about the absurdity of what they are saying.

He lays out the talking points being used today to turn latinos into evil devils responsible for all of societies ills and people have swallowed it. Others are making a good living from spreading the lies and hate.

That's all that I was pointing out. BEcause in the end, there is really no valid proof nor statistics to back up the claims of the antis.

Vicente Duque said...

Prophecy : There will be a lot of Pressure on Obama for Trade and for Protectionism

From the left : The Unions and a Big Public Opinion will put pressure on Obama for Protectionism. They will use beautiful arguments and reasonings about "Human Rights" and caring for workers outside the USA. Lots of Demagoguery, Xenophobia, etc ...

From the Right : The Who is Who of Economic Power and Money in America will put a lot of Pressure on Obama for "Free Trade" agreements. These guys obey their economic interests, but they are better informed on trade and economic prospectives than the General "Populace" and are less prone to Demagoguery and to minimizeing the importance of Trade in Economics.

Colombia is a success case for the Bush Administration. Something in the Showcase of Bush.

Obama began to call the most important leaders of the World. In the third day he only called the Prime Minister of Australia and the President of Colombia.

Before leaving office Bush gave medals to Former Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain and former Prime Minister John Howard of Australia. He also gave the same medal to the President of Colombia Alvaro Uribe.

I still do not know if Obama is going to push ahead with these Free Trade Agreements, but if he continues calling up Uribe, then the possibilities increase.

More info on my sites :

Prophesizing.com

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

pcorn54 said...

Bad math Ultima! Bad math! Truth is, nobody, not Lou Dobbs nor NumbersUSA have any idea how many are here.

Over Christmas, millions returned home. After Christmas, it was estimated on January 3, 918,000 returned to the US on the bridges in Laredo. Imagine that! Almost 1,000,000 Mexicans returning to the US! Legal Mexicans but the xenos nightmares......

Take a look at the crowd photos of the Obama inaugaration. 2 million people! But that into the context of illegal immigration. I seriously doubt that many people cross the border annually without detection.

Logic and common sense!

Dee said...

Ultima,
You are proving PCorn's point.
I have the same story as yours. My father worked 3 jobs to provide for his family. He never took a dime of welfare in his life. He said it would ruin you.
So you agree. We are a privileged society that does not have the work ethic as our grandparents or as the poor in other countries so searching for the American Dream.


Ultima said....
I lived most of my life when none of these existed and my father was glad to get any work he could to support his family. We had no health insurance and there wasn’t even a doctor in town. If all the foregoing benefits had been available, do you think that would have increased or decreased my father’s work ethic?

Dee said...

Pcorn,
You are right. It is clear the ANTIs are following the Tanton Handbook.

PCorn said...
He lays out the talking points being used today to turn latinos into evil devils responsible for all of societies ills and people have swallowed it. Others are making a good living from spreading the lies and hate.

That's all that I was pointing out. BEcause in the end, there is really no valid proof nor statistics to back up the claims of the antis.

Dee said...

Ultima
You are right. My grandfather left his family to go work on building the railroads.

Ultima said...
During the great depression men were literally willing to leave their homes and go wherever jobs could be found, often as the only way to save their families from starvation.

Dee said...

Ultima,
PCorn did not say that at all. He said that after 9/11 the restrictionist agenda gained momentum due to the fear factor.


Ultima said...
So you maintain that 9/11 is responsible for the millions of illegals in this country.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Tell that to the people in Patchogue or Pottsville.

ultima said...
“And while we welcome them when we need them, we still treat them like sub humans and avoid them when at all possible. Look around you and tell me I'm lying. History is a witness to this!”
I have never seen anyone treat them like subhumans. This is pure propaganda of el movimiento.

Dee said...

Ultima,
OMG. You admit it.
Spanish irritates your ears.
Everyone should be barred from speaking it and it is ok to punch them in the face if they speak it on a private cell phone conversation.


ultima said...
“I don't give a damn whether anyone has to press one for english or 69 for swahilli! I've got more important worries.

It doesn't bother me to see bi-lingual signs or anything else that annoys you people.”
So much for your regard for your fellow Americans for whom this seems like an unnecessary irritant in their lives

Dee said...

Ulty,
You must have these words pasted on your wall. I hear more and more ANTIs use this same line vs sticking to the topic.
(not that you were off topic this time)

ultima said...
more Americans should be interested in the national interest and sovereignty. Too bad there are a few who seem to have a higher loyalty sometime ethnocentric.

pcorn54 said...

You know, it makes me want to puke to see these folks wrap themselves in the flag and whine about loss of sovereign rights.

This country has survived two world wars, a police action in Korea, the farce that was Viet Nam, the Presidency of George Bush and this silly little war on terror, that if it had been restricted to Afghanistan, we'd be ahead of the game.

We survived the Cold War, the Civil War, the Revolution, The War of 181, The Spanish American War, The Mexican American war and our sovereignty was never in doubt.

We survived McCarthyism, The years of J Edgar Hoover and so did the country.

And you expect sane people to believe that our sovereignty is threatened by Mexico or it's citizens? People need to get a life!

Yeah, 9/11 changed things and the xenophobes and other fringe groups took full advantage (as did the government) of our irrational fears.

The terrorists of 9/11 entered the country legally, overstayed their visas and did their damage. They did not cross the southern border nor or their any verified instances of others who want to do harm to this country crossing.

We must be politically correct and not profile arabs or middle easterners although they are the ones determined to wreak havoc in this country. And Canada has a large population of these folks.

Instead, we inconvenience little old ladies in wheel chairs and our own citizens in the fight against terrorism and the xenophobes use this as a war cry to seal the southern border!

Dee said...

PCorn,
You stated this very clearly and very well!

pcorn54 said...

I know I did Dee. Because every week when I cross the border to come to work, I am treated in a criminal manner by my own country by the ICE agents at the border and the BP in the inland check points!

Last Saturday, after being advised of the passport requirement being enforced in June 2009, I asked the kid if they could deny a legal citizen entry into his country of birth. His response?

" No, we cannot deny you entry, but without your passport, we WILL detain you for 4 hours or more, while we confirm your identity, through fingerprints, background checks and whatever else we need to do to ascertain you are who you claim to be!"

Bearing in mind that I have been crossing at the same border crossings for more than 10 years. My ID info, vehicle info and records of my crossings reside in their computer system, and many know me by sight as I drive a rather distinct vehicle.

This country has gone to hell in a handbasket due to the irrational xenophobic fears that surround us.

Vicente Duque said...

Dear Dee, Pcorn54 and other friends :

It is useless to waste our time in microscopical and infinitesimal discussions, that are idiotic and despicable.

So I employ my time in better objectives. And when I devote my time to Internet I do searches for Brutal Beatings, Racial Murders, Racial Tortures and Genocides, etc...

That is why I have gotten the most gruesome photos and videos of Racial Attacks and other events that we ignore under the Trillions of Garbage of the Internet.

See how Wilter Sanchez was brutally beaten recently, with baseball bats in North Plainfield, New Jersey, a town where 3 latinos have been killed recently and many have been injured. Look at the horrible videos and photos of Wilter totatlly destroyed in Skull and Face.

I am also a friend of Demographic Statistics and Evolution of Minorities in States and Regions, Electoral Data, etc ...

And Export Import Data from Foreign Trade and Market Projections for Commerce.

After reading lots of Data of Early Voting, state by state and other websites, then I find it very difficult for the Republicans to recover soon. It will take some time for them to recover many voters, specially Minorities.

That is a better use of time than Micro Micro Micro Infinitesimalities.

Raciality.com

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

ultima said...

Pcorn wrote, "We survived the Cold War, the Civil War, the Revolution, The War of 181, The Spanish American War, The Mexican American war and our sovereignty was never in doubt."

Who says? In many of these the outcome hung by a thread and was often due to fortuitous circumstances. Certainly, that was true in WW II, and during the Civil War, when Lincoln unilaterally and illegally suspended habeus corpus. There were peaceniks in those wars as well as Viet Nam.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Bearing in mind that I have been crossing at the same border crossings for more than 10 years. My ID info, vehicle info and records of my crossings reside in their computer system, and many know me by sight as I drive a rather distinct vehicle."

He probably thought by now you were more Mexican than American and should be treated as such. That's good reasoning in my book. I think cross border commuting to work in the U.S. should be prohibited. Do you pay income taxes in the U.S. even though you live in Mexico? A passport is a small price to pay for what some disloyal citizens indulge in.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "This country has gone to hell in a handbasket due to the irrational xenophobic fears that surround us."

I guess that means you will end your daily commute and find work in your new country. This country has gone to hell in a handbasket because of the traitors and illegal alien fellow travelers in our midst who favor illegal aliens over their fellow citizens and cannot wait for the birth of their Mexico Norte nirvana.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Because every week when I cross the border to come to work, I am treated in a criminal manner by my own country by the ICE agents at the border and the BP in the inland check points!"

Now we begin to understand your hate for America. Who knows what has happened to your loyalties over the past 10 years. At least they are not doing a strip search. I guess if it were me I would carefully check your vehicle on every trip until you make up your mind which country you owe your allegiance to.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Yeah right ultima, Unions! The bane of the American worker! Think GM and the Big three which are almost out of business in large part due to legacy costs."

I meant to acknowledge the excesses of unionism but we do have to give them credit for our high flying middle class of yesteryear. With the perennial support of the democrats, their excesses have brought many companies to their knees. John L. Lewis, a president of the UMW many years ago, when asked what he wanted he said, "More!" Well, now it looks like the unions will be getting less.

But we have to be careful what we say about that because Dee was recently vociferous in her defense of the current level of wages and benefits in the auto industry. Her father worked there at one time and like her posture regarding illegal aliens, she takes the part of the workers or the unions instead of the greater good.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "PCorn did not say that at all. He said that after 9/11 the restrictionist agenda gained momentum due to the fear factor."

I don't see a particle of difference between that and what I wrote. I did not intend to put any spin on it unlike others I know for whom that is their stock in trade.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "It will never pass Nationally." [Official English]

Exactly, so no one can say we have a national language.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "it makes me want to puke to see these folks wrap themselves in the flag and whine about loss of sovereign rights."

Yes,it is easy to get nauseous about those who have so little regard for their own country that they live in another and offer it their loyalty but refuse to give up their citizenship in their homeland. I should think that would be the first thing one would want to do in those circumstances. I guess some just want to have the benefit of the American economy while at the same time sitting on the other side of the border sniping at the country that feeds them.

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"The push for these laws create the atmosphere of HATE against Latinos in our society."

There is no reason why they should. These laws are perfectly reasonable and should have been in the constitution from the beginning. Think about it from that perspective. What if it had been written into the constitution, would you now be saying that provision is a form of hate? Okay, so the Founding Father fumbled this one but the more reasonable folks on this issue are saying that it is time to correct this omission. Unfortunately, some subcretin have fixed on this issue and compromised the basic rationale. Of course, characterizing it now as a form of hate generally, isn't helpful. I have always maintained that an Official English provision, properly constructed, would facilitate compromises on many of the other illegal alien issues confronting our country. Calling Official English a message of hate is hateful in itself.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "if it had been restricted to Afghanistan, we'd be ahead of the game."

We might be ahead but still losing. The British and the Russians broke their picks in Afghanistan. There is no reason to believe that we won't do likewise even if we send all the troops we currently have in Iraq to that other war.

ultima said...

Well said Sylvia. I think all this incessant emphasis on "hate" creates more of that emotion than any Official English movement. Let's just recognize that there are good and substantial reasons for English as our official language and ignore the ranting and raving of the lunatics on both sides of the issue. There has been far too much heat and not enough light on this subject, especially from people whom you would expect better of. Leave the kooks out this discussion and maybe we can make some sense of it. As long as it is cast in terms of a campaign of "hate" never the twain shall meet.

ultima said...

Janet wrote, "Believe it or not Mexicans Americans pay taxes too ( their income includes the billions you talk about). I believe it is too late to try to make English the official language when there are many Spanish speaking “AMERICANS” who reside in the United States, and who also contribute to paying their taxes just like every other ethnicity( majority or not)."

We assume that all Americans pay taxes but not all do. The question is, "Would one Official Language serve our country better than a multiplicity of them? What you say about Spanish is true of all other languages represented in the U.S. While I hold no angst against your father, I believe he should have been denied citizenship. If he was here legally, then the lack of citizenship would not have been a huge handicap. He would have been in no danger of being repatriated.

At least you are being honest about Spanish and Official English. Some keep saying English is our national language but clearly from your comments it is not and probably never will be again even if that were implicitly true in the past. And of course, because of that change in our country, that is the reason for the ire among other Americans. That is why I say many of the other problems of illegal aliens and excessive legal immigration could be solved if we had some solution to the Official English problem. Instead, it appears that many cannot wait until Spanish is given the official recognition that is being denied English. Will the day come when your descendents argue for Official Spanish as our national language?

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "And you expect sane people to believe that our sovereignty is threatened by Mexico or it's citizens?"

Sovereign: "free, independent, and in no way limited by external authority or influence[like illegal aliens, their governments, and their fellow travelers]

Read Janet's post and you will see it has already happened. None are so blind as will not see.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "refuses to speak English, because she doesn't like the language."

Okay, now we see another reason for the chip on your shoulder and your partiality to Mexico. But we also see that there is a perfectly logical reason why American resent having Spanish foisted on them even if they master it in school. Smart girl. She explained it all to us on both sides of the border.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "The majority of the illegals crossing the border already have jobs before they cross. They know the wages offered and paid and they ain't minimum wage. $10-12 bucks an hour depending on the industry."

Oh no. Not another unsupported statistic.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Treated as such? Sub Human?

Shame on you Ultima!

ultima said...
He probably thought by now you were more Mexican than American and should be treated as such.

Dee said...

Ultima,
Your Core Agenda is obvious.
What you really want to do is wall of the southern border, mass deport the 12M here, put a stop to all immigration, and only allow educated northern europeans to immigrate here.
This is your core agenda, to stop the majority minority census bureau predictions.

ultima said...
I guess that means you will end your daily commute and find work in your new country. This country has gone to hell in a handbasket because of the traitors and illegal alien fellow travelers in our midst who favor illegal aliens over their fellow citizens and cannot wait for the birth of their Mexico Norte nirvana.

Dee said...

Ultima,
We know now your loyalties are not for America, but for a White Majority America, now and forever.

ultima said...
Now we begin to understand your hate for America. Who knows what has happened to your loyalties over the past 10 years.

Dee said...

Ultima,
I love unions. My father and Josh's father were both Union Men. They believed in America, Hard Work and Union.
You do not castigate the Wall Street criminals who have wasted billions in bonuses and crime. Instead you castigate the hard working union workers.

SUCH A SHAME!!

ultima said...
I meant to acknowledge the excesses of unionism but we do have to give them credit for our high flying middle class of yesteryear.

Dee said...

Ultima,
None are so blind as those who cannot see.

ultima said...
Dee wrote, "PCorn did not say that at all. He said that after 9/11 the restrictionist agenda gained momentum due to the fear factor."

I don't see a particle of difference between that and what I wrote. I did not intend to put any spin on it unlike others I know for whom that is their stock in trade.

Dee said...

Ultima,
But they do as witnessed in Patchogue and Pottsville.

ultima said...
Dee wrote,"The push for these laws create the atmosphere of HATE against Latinos in our society."

There is no reason why they should.

ultima said...

Duque wrote, "the Inferiority Complexes, the Fear, Paranoia and the Stupidity of those that wanted to forbid foreign languages, anywhere in the world."

The imbecility here is that people keep writing tripe like the above when they know full well that Official English has nothing, nothing, nothing whatsoever, to do with forbidding foreign languages anywhere in the world, least of all in the U.S.. This is just the only argument folks can come up with to confront a perfectly reasonable thing to do. A good study for you to do would be to determine how many countries in the world actually do have official languages. You might start with Mexico to see if English is one of its official languages.

Vicente Duque said...

Dear Ultima

Please read my post before, where I wrote :

It is useless to waste our time in microscopical and infinitesimal discussions, that are idiotic and despicable.

So I employ my time in better objectives. And when I devote my time to Internet I do ......
( and my work objectives follow .... )

That is a better use of time than Micro Micro Micro Infinitesimalities.


Raciality.com

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

ultima said...

Charges Expected Friday in 8th Grader’s Death
An eighteen-year-old Chicano likely will be charged with 1st degree murder. Although police still won’t reveal why they believe Alexander Paul Pacheco is behind the death of 13 year old Kelsey Shannon, but say they wanted to get him off the streets “as soon as possible”. Shannon had been missing since leaving home for a walk on October 14, 2008. Her body was found Wednesday in a drainage ditch not far from her family’s home. A friend of Pacheco’s said people are judging him because he’s a “juggalo”, a name devoted of the hip-hop group Insane Clown Posse give themselves.
Pacheco displayed more than a dozen pictures of him and Shannon on his MySpace page and referred to her as his ”fiancée.” On December 11th, he wrote about his depression since the “girl of my dreams ran away. “It seems that a person who claimed to love our daughter found it in his heart to end the life of my precious girl,“ Dottie Shannon, the girl’s mother wrote.

Vicente Duque said...

Judd Gregg for Secretary of Commerce

The Future Foreign Trade direction of the USA

Prophecy : Obama may change course and direction on foreign Trade -

Judd Gregg for Secretary of Commerce ??


Wow ! ... Wow ! ... Wow ! ... Wow ! ... Wow ! ...

That is the RUMOR !

A Very Big Friend of Latin America and Latinos !

Let us assume that this Rumor is False

But the Rumor has a lot of meaning and significance. The rumor is important, ther rumor has a point and implication. Rumors are not born in a void but have a context.

I would add this maxim of Ancient Times Before Christ :

"You obtain power pandering to the Poor, but you exert power with the Rich."

"Get power with the left, Rule with the Right"

This is from Ancient Greece.

Note and Explanation :

Those that have Power, Money, Political Clout, Corporation Empires, etc ... enjoy increasing their fortunes. Foreign Trade and Increasing Foreign Markets is good for their pockets and wallets. They do not fear Foreign Competition and do not fear Foreigners.

The Rich and Powerful have traveled, know other languages and other Nations. They are not scared by Trade and Commerce. They are not scared by Foreign Languages.


Prophesizing.com

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Your Core Agenda is obvious.
What you really want to do is wall of the southern border, mass deport the 12M here, put a stop to all immigration, and only allow educated northern europeans to immigrate here.
This is your core agenda, to stop the majority minority census bureau predictions."

As I recall you have always been for ineffective border security. I , on the other hand, am for effective border security measures including vigorous internal enforcement and expedited repatriation of some of the millions of illegals who have invaded our country. If by walling off the southern border, you mean effective border security and the repatriation of enough illegals to send a message, then you are correct. I have never said otherwise.

I have never advocated the mass deportation of illegals. First of all, that's not even necessary to accomplish the purpose of sending a message to would be new illegals. Second, you know and I know that some of the illegals are needed for our economy and should be vetted, carded, and retained provided their employers can prove their need for these foreign workers.

Likewise your accusation that I want to stop all legal immigration is false. My position on this is that we should reduce legal immigration exclusive of tourists, students, and temporary migrant workers to no more than 200,000 per year and eliminate chain immigrations except for the spouses and children of legal immigrants who have attained citizenship. I believe the 200,000 should be focused on those who can provide value to this country rather than a burden. I see nothing wrong with giving priority to those with the inventiveness, innovative skills, education, promise, talent, etc that we need to stay competitive in a world where China, India and the EU are all producing more engineers and scientists than we are. If you have some Mexican friends who have such degrees, they are welcome as legal immigrants. I also believe that exceptional foreign PhD students should be offered permanent resident status and a pathway to citizenship so we can retain their talents. I don't really care whether they are Chinese, Indian,Mexican or European.

I couldn't care less about the majority minority thing.That's your schtick not mine. I am, as you well know, in favor of a national objective of a stable population with a soft landing for our economy. This is achievable through appropriate immigration and tax policies not the draconian measures employed by China.

There are other aspects of my agenda which you know well, Official English, an end to chain immigrations and the abuse of the 14th amendment. Both of the last two of these are also related to the objective of a stable population.

Please stop telling me what my agenda is. I have stated it repeatedly and the reasons behind it: finite natural resources, environmental damage, extinction of species, climate change, etc. Since you kinow my agenda, there is no need to distort it or give it any sort of pejorative spin. Please print this out and post it by your computer so you can reference it the next time you get the urge to malign my position on any of these issues.

ultima said...

Instead you might spend a little more time enforcing your so-called rules in a more evenhanded manner rather than focusing your ire solely on those with whom you disgree.

ultima said...

Duque wrote, "It is useless to waste our time in microscopical and infinitesimal discussions, that are idiotic and despicable."

It is indeed unfortunate that a bright person like you is unable to understand that what you consider of microscopic importance may be and is of great importance to others who have a right to their opinions just as you do if you are a citizen participant in this discussion. You would deny citizens of their right of free speech unless it agrees with your position. Why not just recognize the legitimacy of both positions? Since we are talking primarily about illegal aliens whom you tend to favor, you have the greater distance to go in any discussion, not those who opppose the illegals, el movimiento and the anti-America crowd.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "“In Mexico, I see people taking responsibility for their lives. Welfare is unheard of there and as such, is not something commonly known about the US."

I applaud those who take responsibility for their lives whatever country they live in, and certainly there are many outside the circle of the neolibs who do right here in the U.S. Of course, that's part of the problem. They look across the border and hear from their friends that all kinds of goodies await them in El Norte and all they have to do is get across the border and have a child or two and they are home free and on the gravy train.

ultima said...

Duque wrote, "They are not scared by Trade and Commerce. They are not scared by Foreign Languages."

Again you resort to hyperbole with the word "scared." What concerns any intelligent person is the shipment of our treasure and claims on our Treasury to China and the Middle East. If international trade is so great, why is it we have a perpetual balance of trade deficit?

ultima said...

Duque wrote, "That is a better use of time than Micro Micro Micro Infinitesimalities."

So I guess we can expect that you will not post any more of your minutia?

Dee said...

Ultima,
You are missing the point of my posting these Hate Crimes. I am posting Hate Crimes where the motive for the attack is purely due to the individual being Latino (brown). In this case, for speaking Spanish.
There are millions of crimes committed over lovers quarrels, dui, theft, etc. Look at BTK or either one of the wife Peterson wife murderers. Just look at the local papers for those.
What I publish is Hate Crimes where the sole reason is hatred due to ethnicity. The victims do not know the perp, yet is attacked strictly for ethnicity.

Dee said...

Ultima,
I constantly advocate the 12M here should be able to come out of the shadows adn register and those who are crime free should be able to get in line to obtain citizenship status.

Ultima said....
you know and I know that some of the illegals are needed for our economy and should be vetted, carded, and retained provided their employers can prove their need for these foreign workers.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "But they do as witnessed in Patchogue and Pottsville."

There are more explanations than your simplistic "hate" answer for everything that goes on in this world. I doubt that either of the above had anything whatsoever to do with "Official English" except perhaps the lack of it. Postville was a simple case of ICE enforcing the law. Those folks were not mistreated in any way that was incommensurate with their status as illegals. You made a big thing about the fact that these folks were detained temporarily in a barn without even recognizing that many farmers in Iowa spend a good part of their days in barns. That sort of hyperbole or exaggeration undermines whatever validity your arguments might otherwise have.

Without in any way excusing the brutality of those responsible in Patchogue, it would be a good exercise for you to brainstorm for yourself what all the motivations might have been for these excesses. What are all the things besides your simplistic "hate" explanation could have animated these boys? Is it possible that they are the same types that bully their own kind? Is it possible that their brains are not fully developed like those young folks who kill themselves in autos? Do their fathers beat them? Did their fathers or mothers lose their jobs to illegals or bi-lingual speakers? Think about it. I'm sure you can come with some more ideas. What if it was your son who had beat up on an anglo? Would that have been "hate" too?

Take off the ethnocentric blinders. Have some little regard for your fellow citizens rather than only for La Raza.

ultima said...

"He said that after 9/11 the restrictionist agenda gained momentum due to the fear factor."

There is an element of fear for all of our population particularly the relatives of all those who died. That fear helped us to remain free of terrorist incidents on U.S. soil ever since. Will it take another such incident to validate that fear?

"Restrictionist agenda" is just more spin and distortion. Clearly the concern was security not any restrictionist agenda. So soon we forget the legitimated concerns about population that go all the way back to Parson Malthus and others, as well as the ZPG and NPG folks who have been around for a long time.Many scientists and UN representatives have signed on to the idea that the world has too many people and there will be catastrophes in the future because of all the shortsighted people like you, Duque, and others who have trouble with rational thinking about these matters of urgent importance. There really is no substantive argument in favor of further population growth in the U.S. and in the world. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "I love unions. My father and Josh's father were both Union Men. They believed in America, Hard Work and Union.
You do not castigate the Wall Street criminals who have wasted billions in bonuses and crime. Instead you castigate the hard working union workers."

Tell it to Pcorn, he's the one that brought it up this time when I mentioned that unions had helped create our middle class. Tell it to Pcorn!!!

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "OMG. You admit it.
Spanish irritates your ears.
Everyone should be barred from speaking it and it is ok to punch them in the face if they speak it on a private cell phone conversation."

Spin! Spin! Spin! Distortions! Distortions! Distortions! Show me where I said anything like that as far as I am personally concerned. It's enough to make a temperate man swear #@$%* the way you twist and turn everyone's posts to fit your preconceptions. I believe your understanding of the English language is defective. You are utterly shameless!

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "If you're waiting for the good union wages that put this country where it is today, don't be holding your breath."

Tell that to Dee so you can also feel her wrath! I'm not holding my breath. No one in my family ever belonged to a union. Dee puts all the blame on management not on the union's excessive demands.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "John Tanton wrote his WITAN memos in the late 70's and 80's. If you read them, you will see what he proposed almost 30 years ago, is happening now."

I like Sylvia have never read anything by Tanton and don't propose to do so. Go back a little farther in time and you will find Jim Crow, America's apartheid,and before that slavery. We have moved beyond whatever Tanton had to say and many of us are trying to articulate a legitimate argument only to find our posts purposely misinterpreted, distorted or spun until they are unrecognizable. A little more empathetic reading of comments would be a useful thing for all hands and we should all abhor those who find it necessary to rephrase and distort the posting of others rather than simply quoting them and accepting them at face value.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "This HATE is seething, boiling, creeping into their every pore!"

I'm sure there is some of that on both sides of the argument and you add fuel to the fire by your exaggerations and incessant comments along the lines above. Do you think your comments will cure those of ill will or inflame them more? Why not just ignore them and let them fade into the ignominy of their fringe ideas.

ultima said...

Duque said, "See how Wilter Sanchez was brutally beaten recently, with baseball bats in North Plainfield, New Jersey, a town where 3 latinos have been killed recently and many have been injured."

This is, of course, terrible and tragic in every sense of the word but it has been going on for a long time. Look up the Gangs of New York. And the street rumbles of yesteryear. People have been using baseball bats on each other without the excuse of race for a long time. Race has just shifted their focus.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "So you agree. We are a privileged society that does not have the work ethic as our grandparents or as the poor in other countries so searching for the American Dream."

I stated whatever degree of agreement I had with pcorn. I believe our privileged society is rapidly coming to a close and those who have become used to government largess and those who have become used to affluence will not survive when their world crashes around them. Not all of us are lazy, good-for-nothings who think they are above manual labor or true crafts. Old world craftsmanship is probably a thing of the past because of machines rather than laziness. But who really knows until it is too late?

ultima said...

Dee wrote, ""English-only campaign funded by organization linked to 'hate groups'"

If their objective is really "English-only" rather than "Official English" as our national language, they are truly misguided misfits. There is a difference between these two terms. Make sure you use the right one.

I have been a contributor for years to "U.S. English". I have yet to see anything from that organization that smacks of hate or racism.

Anonymous said...

Feds Accuse Latino Gang of Hate Crime Spree Against Black Americans

From the L.A. Times:

Federal prosecutors Tuesday accused members of a Latino street gang of a violent campaign to drive African American rivals out of their South Los Angeles area neighborhood, resulting in at least 20 killings in the last three years.

Capping an undercover investigation conducted over that period, authorities issued indictments that charged more than 60 members and associates of the Florencia 13 street gang with a long list of felonies. Prosecutors say the gang was trying to dominate the area’s drug trade as well as extort “rent” from prostitutes, vendors, drug dealers and others.

Much of the violence occurred in the Florence-Firestone neighborhood, a working-class unincorporated community of 60,000 north of Watts that went through a rapid shift in population starting in the 1980s. Once mostly black, the area is now home to many Mexican immigrants.

Officials said Latino gang leaders in recent years had sought to drive the remaining black gangs and their supporters from the neighborhood and had repeatedly ordered members to attack black rivals — in some cases shooting them on sight.

The indictment’s description of sustained, deadly racial gang fighting provides evidence of a type of violence that is often discussed but seldom documented. Homicide statistics indicate that the vast majority of killings take place within racial or ethnic groups.

Florence-Firestone, however, appears to have been a murderous exception. Killings in the neighborhood peaked in 2005, when 41 homicides sparked widespread community outcry. As violence rose, the L.A. County Sheriff’s Department sent more than 60 additional deputies to the area and conducted several mass arrests aimed at reducing racial violence. The district attorney’s office devoted a special prosecutor to handle only Florence-Firestone homicides for two years.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "The push for these laws create the atmosphere of HATE against Latinos in our society."

You could help by pointing out as one who opposes Official English that the more support their is for Official English the less reason there is for hate, no matter from which side of the argument it emanates.You could also help by stopping encouraging people to think of this as a hate-generating thing when there are good and substantial reasons for thinking otherwise. Pour oil on the troubled waters, don't stir them. The more you write that this generates hate, the more hate it will generate among the fringe elements and extremists.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Additionally, English is already the officially acknowledged as the National language."

Janet Martinez doesn't seem to think so.

Anonymous said...

Victims of Illegal Alien Criminals
http://www.voiac.org/victims.php

2008-09-04 Debbie Serecky Age: 51
Illegal alien charged with vehicular homicide after running stop light and killing two women and a three year old child

2008-09-04 Patricia Guntharp Age: 49
Illegal alien charged with vehicular homicide after running stop light and killing two women and a three year old child

2008-09-04 Marten Kudlis Age: 3
An illegal alien has been charged with vehicular homicide in the death of three year old

2008-07-27 Christopher Lanier Age: 15
An illegal alien is charged with fleeing the scene of a death after hitting and running over teenager

2008-07-20 Alonzo Foster Age: 22
Illegal alien charged in the shooting death of an unarmed 22 year old

2008-07-16 Veronica Robles Age: 37
An illegal alien has been charged in the shooting death of mother in the presence of her children

2008-06-22 Michael Bologna Age: 20
Sancuary city San Francisco protected the previously convicted illegal alien gang member charged in the murder of Michael, his brother and father

2008-06-22 Anthony Bologna Age: 48
Illegal alien gang member charged with the brutal murder of Anthony Bologna and his two sons

2008-06-22 Matthew Bologna Age: 16
The youngest son of the Bologna family allegedly murdered in cold blood by previously convicted violent illegal alien gang-banger

2008-06-01 Gloria Marie Applegate Age: 32
Illegal alien convicted of murdering woman in alley after attempted rape

2008-05-24 Frankie Brooks Age: 5
Little Frankie Blue Eyes was struck and killed in his front yard by an illegal alien charged with DUI

2008-05-18 Joshua George Age: 17
Illegal alien charged with felony drunk driving in the death of teenager on prom night

2008-04-29 Garry Weiss Age: 53
Prominent attorney and family man killed in violent collision caused by an illegal alien drunk and speeding

2008-04-29 Stephen Hough Age: 26
Twenty-six year old college student killed by intoxicated, speeding illegal alien

2008-04-29 Amy Bartelmay Age: 25
Twenty-five year old mother killed by drunk, speeding illegal alien

2008-03-02 Jamiel Shaw Age: 17
An illegal alien gang member has been charged in the shooting death of high school football star

2008-02-07 Jane Doe Age: 16
Illegal Alien Arrested for Lewd Conduct

2008-02-05 Jane Doe Age: unknown
Illegal alien charged with injuring woman in I66 accident in Virginia

2008-02-05 Trilica Morena Age: 31
Illegal alien seriously injures woman in hit-and-run accident

2008-01-19 Agent Luis Aguilar Age: 32
Illegal alien charged in the hit and run murder of border patrol agent is a free man

2008-01-18 Jane Doe Age: 14
Illegal alien charged with sexually assaulting girl, 14, at private school

2008-01-12 Jane Doe Age: 12
Previously deported illegal alien rapes 12 year old girl

2008-01-00 Jane Doe Age: 13
Illegal alien charged with molesting girl, 13, and raping sister 14

2008-01-00 Jane Doe Age: 13
Illegal alien charged with raping girl, 14, and molesting sister 13

2007-12-09 Roger Guzman Age: 28
Illegal Alien Arrested for Stabbng Man to Death

2007-12-09 John Doe Age: 18
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two

2007-12-09 John Doe Age: 30
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two

2007-12-09 Gerardo Garcia Age: 25
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two

2007-12-09 Juan Guevara Age: 28
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two 2007-12-09 Rosario Europa Age: 24
Illegal Alien Arrested for Killing Three and wounding Two

2007-12-08 Jane Doe Age: 24
Illegal Alien Arrested in California I-5 Freeway Rape

2007-12-02 Christopher Foat Age: 23
Illegal Alien Kills Pedestrian in Hit-and-Run Accident

2007-11-30 Jane Doe Age: 21
Illegal Alien Repeatedly Stabs GIrlfriend and Mother of His Twin Boys With Steak Knife

2007-11-28 Nery Diaz Age: 2
Illegal Alien Kidnaps Boy, 2 - Recovered OK After Kidnapper's Car Crashes

2007-11-28 Mary Denise Richey Age: 40
Illegal Alien Hit and Run Driver Kills Wheelchair Bound Mother

2007-11-23 Baby Zanchez Age: unknown
Illegal Alien Mother Throws Baby Out With the Trash

2007-11-23 Brian Newell Age: unknown
Illegal Alien Driving Drunk Kills One, Injures Others

2007-11-23 Andrew Newell Age: 22
Illegal Alien Driving Drunk Kills One, Injures Others

2007-11-22 Evalyn Munguia Age: 3
Drunk Driving IIlegal Runs Stop Sign - 2 Killed & 2 Critically Injured on Thanksgiving

2007-11-22 Laura Herrera Age: 23
Drunk Driving IIlegal Runs Stop Sign - 2 Killed & 2 Critically Injured on Thanksgiving

2007-03-04 Dwane Braswell Age: 35
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with 2 Prior DUI Convictions Kills Man and His 9 Year Old Son

2007-02-15 Jane Doe Age: 9
Illegal alien charged with sexually assaulting Denver girl, 9 - He is let out on a low bond and he flees to Mexico

2007-02-06 Leanna Newman Age: 20
Twice Deported Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with Two Prior DUIs Kills 8-month Pregnant Woman

2007-02-02 Jason Okon Age: 24
Veteran with Bronze Star Murdered by an Illegal Alien

2007-01-31 Jane Doe Age: 14
Twice deported illegal alien charged with raping Chandler, AZ girl, 14

2007-01-28 Gladys Reyes Age: 11
Illegal Alien Runs Over Eleven-Year-Old Girl and Drags Her for 500 Yards

2007-01-21 Danielle Gorectke Age: 23
Drunk Illegal Alien Sexually Assaults and Murders College Girl, 23

2007-01-16 Jane Doe Age: 13
Twice deported illegal alien charged with attempted rape Chandler, AZ girl, 13

2007-01-06 Jane Doe Age: unknown
Twice deported illegal alien sexually assaults woman

2007-01-05 Luis Campos Age: 20
Illegal Aliens Kidnap, Torture, and Murder Couple 2007-01-05 Linoshka Torres Age: 18
Illegal Aliens Kidnap, Torture, and Murder Couple

2007-01-01 Jane Doe Age: 10
Illegal Immigrant charged for sexual assault on a 10-year-old girl 2006-12-30 Derrick Jefferson Age: 17
Legal and Illegal Immigrant Pair Murder Boy, 17

2006-12-28 Ronald Bishop Age: 42
Man killed in hit-and-run accident by an illegal alien

2006-12-28 Josh Morrow Age: 4
Little boy run over by an illegal alien who fled the scene of the accident

2006-12-25 Elizabeth Currie Age: 25
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills 2, Seriously Injures 1

2006-12-25 Meagan McMahon Age: 27
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills 2, Seriously Injures 1

2006-12-25 Dan Parry Age: 33
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills 2, Seriously Injures 1

2006-12-24 Cheryl Ceran Age: 47
An intoxicated illegal alien was charged with vehicular homicide in the deaths of mother and two of her young children

2006-12-24 Clarissa Ceran Age: 19
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Runs Red Light and Slams into Car: Kills 3, Injures 3

2007-11-22 Jacklin Moniguia-Herrera Age: 4
Drunk Driving IIlegal Runs Stop Sign - 2 Killed & 2 Critically Injured on Thanksgiving

2007-11-22 Stephanie Cervantez Age: 14
Drunk Driving IIlegal Runs Stop Sign - 2 Killed & 2 Critically Injured on Thanksgiving

2007-11-21 Carmen Benitez-Sanchez Age: unknown
Illegal Alien Stabs and Kills Girlfriend

2007-11-18 Christina Meija Age: 22
Estranged girlfiend strangled to death and buried in a shallow grave by illegal alien

2007-11-11 Holly Rogers Age: 20
Drunk driving, most likely illegal alien kills girl, 20

2007-11-11 Gregory Quinn Age: unknown
Illegal Alien Drives into Motorcycle Cop Stopped at Red Light

2007-11-08 Jane Doe Age: 15
Twice deported illegal alien charged with attempted rape of Chandler, AZ girl, 15

2007-11-08 Jezer Lopez Age: 32
Illegal Alien With Numerous Prior Arrests Guns Down and Kills Ex-girlfriend and Her Boyfriend

2007-11-08 Martha Lopez-Pacheco Age: 29
Illegal Alien With Numerous Prior Arrests Guns Down and Kills Ex-girlfriend and Her Boyfriend

2007-11-04 Ben Hernandez Age: 66
2 Illegal Aliens Arrested in Fatal Car Accident

2007-11-03 Jane Doe Age: 59
Illegal Alien Rapes Woman In Alexandria

2007-11-03 Jane Doe Age: 14
Illegal alien arrested for statutory rape on 14 year old girl in Idaho

2007-11-03 Jane Doe Age: 59
Illegal Alien Rapes Woman in Her Home

2007-10-30 Brenetta Beck Age: 25
Illegal Alien Charged with Stabbing Estranged Girlfriend to Death

2007-10-30 Brenetta Beck Age: 25
Illegal alien stabs and kills the mother of his two children

2007-10-30 Jane Doe Age: unknown
Woman sexually assaulted by illegal alien posing as a contractor.

2007-10-29 Hector Gran-Merida Age: 18
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Seriously Injures Passenger and Kills 4

2007-10-29 Francisco Contreras Age: 20
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Four and Seriously Injures One in Highway Crash

2007-10-29 Jose Ortiz Age: 15
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Four and Seriously Injures One in Highway Crash

2007-10-29 Israel Merida Age: 17
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Four and Seriously Injures One in Highway Crash

2007-10-29 Matthew Wilson Age: 23
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Kills Innocent Other Driver, Two Passengers and Himself

2007-10-25 Bettie Coates Age: 42
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien with Previous DWIs Seriously Injures Woman in Wrong-Way Crash

2007-10-21 Miguel Sandoval Age: 3
Drunk Driving,Hit-and-Run, Illegal Alien Kills Girl, 5, Seriously Injures Another

2007-10-21 Annabelle Sandoval Age: 5
Drunk Driving, Hit-and-Run, Illegal Alien Kills 5-Year Old Girl, Seriously Injures Another Child

2007-10-18 John Doe Age: 1
Suspected Illegal Alien Arrested for Shaking Baby and Causing Serious Injuries

2007-10-16 Jeremia Reyes-Diaz Age: 22
Illegal Alien Causes Crash That Kills Passenger

2007-10-15 John Doe Age: unknown
Man Killed In Bar Fight By Most Likely Illegal Alien

2007-10-15 Marvin Valderon Age: 32
Man Killed In Bar Fight By Most Likely Illegal Alien

2007-10-15 Jane Doe Age: 83
Illegal Immigrant Charged With Raping Elderly Woman

2007-10-12 Jane Doe Age: 6
6 Year Old Girl Raped by Illegal Alien

2007-10-09 Ernesto Deleon Age: 33
Father of 2 Murdered by Illegal Alien 2007-10-06 Jane Doe Age: 23
Illegal immigrant charged with raping a woman.

2007-09-25 Jane Doe Age: 12
Suspected Illegal Alien Charged with Rape of 12 Year old Girl

2007-09-23 Sylvester McLean Age: 19
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Crashes Into Parked Car, Killing Two

2007-09-23 Crystal Cargua Age: 17
Drunk Driving Illegal Alien Crashed Into Parked Car Killing Two

2007-09-18 Kathryn Travaglini Age: 54
Illegal Alien Crashes SUV Into Lunchtime Diners

2007-09-17 Jane Doe Age: unknown
Two illegal aliens charged with kidnap, rape, torture, and attempted murder.

2007-09-11 Jane Doe Age: unknown
Two Illegal Aliens Brutully Rape NJ Woman

2007-09-10 Russell Reeder Age: 33
Illegal Alien Allegedly Shot Victim 9 Times, Still at Large

2007-09-09 JANE DOE Age: 20
Suspected Illegal Immigrant Charged with Raping PA Woman

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"We know now your loyalties are not for America, but for a White Majority America, now and forever."

BS. You know no such thing. I have never advocated deportation of every non white American. Our multi-racial society is safe at least until the Hispanics take over then I'm not sure what will happen. Official Spanish? Deport all Anglos who don't have some Indian blood? etc.

ultima said...

"stirred up by the ANTI immigration reform websites"

I doubt that most pro-
America folks require any stirring up. They see first hand evidence of their country going down the drain. That is more than enough. Their problem is that they act violently on that evidence whereas the vast majority of pro-America folks do not.

ultima said...

Dee said my quote below proved something:

"citizens would feel less threatened when they go to the mall and hear nothing but a foreign language being spoken."

Perhaps I omitted the key word "some" before "citizens" because we have heard from several on this and other sites who have made it clear they are not threatened. And, of course, I did not say I was threatened. Just another example of Dee's purposeful misinterpretations to make a point. She regularly fails when she prints these distortions and falsehoods.

ultima said...

"I believe it our right to have our families accommodated for."..Janet

I guess you are saying whether or not you are legal and whether or not you have enough English to qualify for citizenship we should accommodate you. I believe we should have Public Interpreters, like Public Defenders, for those who cannot afford one or who do not have a family member like yourself who can provide interpretation. If your father is a permanent legal resident, those are the rules he should have to live by and not depend on the rest of us to pay for multi-lingual ballots and materials for him or anyone else.

ultima said...

"These laws are being promoted by RACIST HATE GROUPS!!"

Perhaps so, but also by many other legitimate groups outside the fringe.

Think of these folks as akin to La Raza, MEChA, the Brown Berets, and the Atzlanistas. These organizations are perhaps not so few in numbers but sure make a lot of noise. And then there are the illegal alien fellow travelers who take their part all the time against those of their fellow citizens.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Official English articles, are who are perpetrating the HATE CRIMES!"

Sorry but I don't read their drivel. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent these kooks from usurping the the perfectly reasonable idea of Official English which has been sponsored by various legitimate organizations and numerous congresspersons.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "I acknowledge I am a PRO Blogger and I support other PRO Bloggers."

We all know the obvious. The question is: "Do you have one set of rules for anti-America bloggers and another for pro-America bloggers?" And for that matter where do your rules permit gutter language as long as it is expressed in a foreign language? I really want to know so I can use it if I find necessary without violating your rules.

I am shocked that you have dodged this question by putting it all on Anon instead of pcorn. Disgusting!

ultima said...

Dee please have pcorn publish this post in English so everyone can see what a foul minded person he is.

We are waiting. I guess your rules are totally meaningless.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "...German dialects, Italian dialects, and French dialects compared to many native dialects in Mexico, but they are not protected by law. nor should they be."

So you make the Official English point very well. I rest my case, even without citing all the other countries which have official languages.

ultima said...

"because she doesn't like the language."

It must have been sheer torture for her. Why did she do it? How can one not like a language? It is evidence of bias of some kind or other, like that anglos are accused of against illegal aliens.

ultima said...

"People tend to make fun of them or make disparaging comments towards them."

I believe there is no malice in this. It is simply a human reaction. I had a German acquaintance break into laughter a number of times when I fumbled a phrase or mispronounced a word. No big deal. Hopefully most people are helpful in that regard. I met a young man on the plane whose mother was German and whose father was Mexican American. He was coming to the U.S. to join his father. I believe his name was Corrizzozo and he couldn't find his suitcase [coffer] when we arrived so I helped him even though my German didn't go much beyond the word, coffer.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Others are making a good living from spreading the lies and hate."

And Dee has a cottage industry of her own churning out all that drivel about "hate" as though that is the one and only animus in America.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "There are recruiters in Mexico recruiting workers for employers under the H1B program. And word gets around who is hiring and what the pay is. Call it the Taco Telegraph or whatever."

Are you one of them?

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "You must have these words pasted on your wall. I hear more and more ANTIs use this same line vs sticking to the topic.
(not that you were off topic this time)"

I admit I use them regularly because they are always applicable. I sorry they seem to have become a cliche. That does not alter their fundamental truth, one you are unable to recognize. I can't keep anyone from copying what I post or what I believe in whatever its ultimate source. I do resent extremist elements misusing it to justify their particular points of view.

ultima said...

pcorn wrote, "Almost 1,000,000 Mexicans returning to the US! Legal Mexicans but the xenos nightmares......"

How would you know they were legal Mexicans? Did you check all of their ids to see that they were valid? You know that is an impossible task. We used to hear from a poster called Bob Schmidt who has a Mexican wife, who walked across the border right behind him and flashed something that looked like an id at the agent and had no trouble even though she was illegal at the time. He said there are far more who cross that the regular ports of entry than through the desert.

I can understand how some legal might wish to visit relatives in Mexico at Christmastime. What I don't understand is how we came to have so many so-called "legals". How does that happen? Is there a flaw in the immigration laws?

ultima said...

pcorn wrote "I seriously doubt that many people cross the border annually without detection. "

Check the BP stats on how many they apprehend and what percent they think they do not catch.

Dee said...

Ultima,
These are 2 different issues. Anon is frequently off topic and tries to hijack my site. re: PCorn's spanish language profanity. I emailed/chastised him and he knows he cannot and should not do this on my blog. The problem is the limitations of eblogger which do not enable me to edit the comments. I cannot edit. I can only delete. Yet, there were some portions of the comment I agreed with and others referenced, hence the dilemma.

I am writing eblogger and asking them to enable edits on comments.

ultima said...
I am shocked that you have dodged this question by putting it all on Anon instead of pcorn. Disgusting!

Dee said...

Ultima,
PCorn is providing us valuable information.
Why do you chastise him?

ultima said...
pcorn wrote, "There are recruiters in Mexico recruiting workers for employers under the H1B program. And word gets around who is hiring and what the pay is. Call it the Taco Telegraph or whatever."

Are you one of them?

Dee said...

Ultima,
Shame on you. Shall I provide you the definition of "cottage industry"?

I gain no profit from publishing my beliefs.

ultima said...
pcorn wrote, "Others are making a good living from spreading the lies and hate."

And Dee has a cottage industry of her own churning out all that drivel about "hate" as though that is the one and only animus in America.

Vicente Duque said...

Dear Ms Tara and Dear Mr Ultima :

You are using my site RACIALITY.COM to report crimes and misdemeanors commited by Latinos.

Those are Public Comments and I am not violating Private Confidence.

Thanks for your comment. But I do not get your point or your points.

If you want to report crimes against Women, then I have a much better Blog than RACIALITY.COM

I have the Website MURDEROR.COM that reports crimes against Women, Children, the Old, the Homeless, Crippled, Blind or Sick.

I have even reported there some crimes committed by Latinos against other Races.

Here it is :

Murderor.com

If you want to Report the Most Despicable Sadistic and Coward Tortures, then I have the best Website for that ( TORTURAL.COM ) :

Tortural.com

Go there and report any crimes committed by Latinos if that pleases you so much !

But please do not report Traffic Violations !!

Vicente Duque

Vicente Duque said...

Dear MS Tara :

As I said before thanks for your abundant comments in my site RACIALITY.COM

You are free to post your most horrible crimes committed by Latinos if that pleases you so much.

I think that these sites of mine are the best :

Against Women, Children, the Old, etc ... :

Murderor.com

For the Most Coward Sadistic Tortures :

Tortural.com

But please, be careful that you are not getting your information from Nazi Skinheads, the Ku Klux Klan or other White Supremacists.

These Bad Guys have the bad custom of killing their own members including Women. As it happened to Cynthia Lynch from Oklahoma, very recently indeed !!

Look here please and see the Videos of the Murder of Cynthia :

Cynthia Lynch : White Woman Killed by the Ku Klux Klan during Initiation. The Custom of Killing its own members - History of Inward Directed Violence

You seem very naive and young to me.

So from my Warm Heart I recommend this to you :

Do not go to initiations of the Ku Klux Klan in Louisiana.

Thanks friend

Vicente Duque

Anonymous said...

So pcorn gets a "private" chastizing by you to not embarrass him but those anti's who don't hold your views get a "public" one in your blog? Why is his vile post still in this thread? Why hasn't it been deleted? Doesn't matter if some of it appealed to you, if you are fair minded an unbiased and no profanity is allowed like you "claim" you would delete the whole thing but it is still here.

pcorn54 said...

waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa!!!!!

Dee said...

Anon,
You continue to go off topic. Stick to the topic. A HATE Crime was committed.
A man was on his cell phone minding his own business when an ANTI - hate monger slugs him in the face just for speaking Spanish on a personal call.
Horrible!

Anonymous said...

Didn't pcorn go off topic in the first place with his nasty post? Where does one address a biased approach to moderating if not under the topic where the biasness occured? Where does one register a complaint then? Funny how you allowed Ultima to supposedly go off topic when he complained about it but anon can't also complain about it and it is called getting "off topic"? You just don't want to admit that what you did was wrong so you avoid the questions and call it being off topic.

ultima said...

Nearly a week after William Dwayne Andrews was found shot to death in the middle of a north Boulder street, his friend and associate was arrested in connection with the slaying.

Joseph C. Abeyta,l of Longmont, Colorado, was arrested Thursday on suspicion of first-degree murder.

Investigators were still searching for the murder weapon, which is described as a black 12-guage, sawed-off shotgun with a pistol-type grip. Police have said Abeyta was also carrying a handgun, which hasn't been found.

A punch in the face pales by comparison.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Shame on you. Shall I provide you the definition of "cottage industry"?

I gain no profit from publishing my beliefs."

You do not need to make a profit to be an industry. Look at GM. Please provide your definition. Wikipedia's is provided in my next post.

ultima said...

A cottage industry is an industry – primarily manufacturing – which includes many producers, working from their homes, typically part time. The term originally referred to home workers who were engaged in a task such as sewing, lace-making or household manufacturing. Some industries which are usually operated from large centralized factories were cottage industries before the Industrial Revolution. The business operators would travel around, buying raw materials, delivering them to people who would work on them, and then collecting the finished goods to sell, or typically to ship to another market. One of the factors which allowed the Industrial Revolution to take place in Western Europe was the presence of these business people who had the ability to expand the scale of their operations. Cottage industries were very common in the time when a large proportion of the population was engaged in agriculture, because the farmers (and their families) often had both the time and the desire to earn additional income during the part of the year (winter) when there was little farming work to do.

The use of the term has expanded, and is used to refer to any event which allows a large number of people to work part time. For example, eBay is said to have spawned a cottage industry of people who buy surplus merchandise, and sell it on their auction system.

Perhaps it is appropriate to say the internet has also spawned a cottage industry in the blogasphere where people can trade ideas and insults or criticism. If not a cottage industry it has certainly turned out to be a growth industry.

Because I admire you in spite of all the criticism I heap on you and your position, I accept your rebuke if these explanations do not suffice.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "I can only delete. Yet, there were some portions of the comment I agreed with and others referenced, hence the dilemma."

Here's a suggestion but I would not be heavy handed about using it. Use it only for the kind of language we are talking about.

Copy the post to Word then delete the post and restore it from the version you edit in Word. Once it is cleaned up, you could also insert translations where you have the capability to do so. That will enable all posters to pick up on whatever points may have been made once the expletives have been deleted. Works for me.

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