Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Barbie Teaches Tom Tancredo A Lesson In the Beauty of Diversity!

Mattel has released a NEW black Barbie doll. She has fuller lips, curlier hair and other features that the company says more accurately represents African-American women. The doll was created by Stacy McBride-Irby, an African-American who watched her daughter play with dolls and wanted to create a doll that looked more like her. "The new Barbie means so much to me because she came from a positive place," McBride-Irby said. "My daughter loves the doll. I've had dads thank me for creating this line of dolls that represent their little girls. These dolls are for girls all over the world."

This is not the first time Mattell released an ethnic doll. In the 1990s, Mattel released a Latina Barbie and a series of ethnic Barbies. Many parents applaud the release of ethnically diverse dolls. iReporters say their little girls want to play with dolls that "look just like me."

As I was reading this article, I thought about Tom Tancredo's assimilation quote: "Throughout history, people who are NOT WHITE Anglo-Saxon (Northern European) have become American by adopting a WHITE Anglo-Saxon (Northern European) culture." Tom Tancredo wants all minorities to ASSIMILATE to some Mayberrian Vision he has in his mind. He wants minorities to drop their Color. Drop their music. Drop their dance moves. And transform into Alfred E Newman. Just like he did.

Tancredo's problem: He does not understand that our country has continued to evolve ethnically and culturally over the last two centuries. We are not and have never been Northern Europe. Additionally, our cultural identity has NEVER stood still. We are not the America of 1776, 1865, 1950, 1980 or even 2000.

The lesson Barbie is teaching Tom Tancredo: There is BEAUTY IN DIVERSITY! America is a land of Immigrants. We are the world's ideal. We are the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. We do not have to assimilate to WHITE Northern Europeans. We are our own unique country. We are NOT going to assimilate to his picture of White European Alfred E Newman. We are going to be ourselves, Americans. And, as minorities grow in number, we want dolls that look like us, food we like to eat and music we enjoy. Every American does.

I love America. We are a melting pot/salad bowl. We are a land of Immigrants.
"E pluribus unum: out of many one. One state made of many states. One culture made of many cultures. One tribe made of many tribes. One clan made of many clans. One family made of many families. Made of individuals as unique and precious as life itself. "

73 comments:

Dee said...

JS,
Given you continue to repeat what you posted on a previous blog, let me say this: I worded this exactly as it should be worded, whether you choose to understand it or not. I am very precise in my wording. "WE ARE NOT NORTHERN EUROPE." Period!

As far as the link to Tancredo's direct quote, all you had to do is google it.
HERE
I googled it for you. It is ALL OVER THE WEB! Shame on you for doubting me!!

Vicente Duque said...

There will be many customers for these "Minority" Barbies :

Black, Latina, Asian, Native American, etc ... or Latina Barbie.

*********************
*********************

One-fifth of all K-12 students and one-fourth of all kindergartners are Hispanic, according to U.S. Census Bureau tables released on March 2009

Note :

K-12 is a designation for the sum of primary and secondary education.

The expression is a shortening of Kindergarten (4-6-year-old) through 12th grade or grade 12 (16-23 years old), the first and last grades of free education in the United States

School Library Journal
Hispanic Enrollment in Schools Rising, Census Bureau Reports
by SLJ Staff -- March 9, 2009

Hispanic Enrollment in Schools Rising, Census Bureau Reports

http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6642887.html?industryid=47062

Some excerpts :

Roughly one-fifth of all K-12 students—and one-fourth of all kindergartners—are Hispanic, according to U.S. Census Bureau tables released last week. And if the pace of minority children in this country keeps up, they will become the majority by 2023.

Western states such as California, Arizona, and Nevada are witnessing the most prominent rise in minority student enrollment, with the growing number of Hispanics due to immigration and higher birth rates, the Census Bureau reports.

Overall, the percentage of minority students—Hispanic, black, Asian-American, and others—have more than doubled over the last three decades to 40 percent in 2007.

And while the minority population is projected to become the majority by 2042, for minority kids, that shift is predicted to take place in 2023, seven years earlier than the previous estimate, from 2004, the Associated Press reports.

The study of Demography is a Beautiful and useful discipline :

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

Dee said...

More of Tancredo's racist quotes:

Tancredo:

1. "...undocumented immigrants are coming here [to America] to kill you and to kill me and our families.” (2003)
2. “Throughout history, people who are not white Anglo-Saxon have become American by adopting a white Anglo-Saxon culture. Today, this cult of multiculturality emphasizes our differences — things that pull us apart instead of bringing us together.” (February 2009)
3. "... immigrants who fail to 'become American' by adopting 'white Anglo-Saxon culture' are a destructive force in America."
4. "Latinos and Muslims are members of 'problem' cultures."

Dee said...

more:

"Look at what has happened to Miami. It has become a Third World country. You just pick it up and take it and move it someplace. You would never know you're in the United States of America. You would certainly say you're in a Third World country," Tancredo said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2006/11/30/politics/main2217944
.shtml

Dee said...

More of Tancredo's Racist Quotes:

During a field hearing in Brownsville on Monday, Tancredo suggested that the contentious border fence be built north of cities like Brownsville if their local governments continue to protest its construction.

Tancredo said: "I suggest that you build this fence around the northern part of your city."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/
f-news/2008316/posts

Dee said...

url for 2nd comment:

http://politics.theatlantic.com/
2009/05
/sotoskirmish_tancredo_says_soto_ap
pears_to_be_racist.php

JS said...

I am not going to continue to debate with you on this subject. Tancredo like most Americans just feel that immigrants should assimiate to our American culture. We all know what the basics of American culture are and one of them is the English language.

You apparently don't know what is meant by the melting pot. The basics are still there but with other flavors added. It is the basics of that pot that you apparently are denying and are resentful of. I cannot help you with that nor do I understand why you feel that way. I see where you were born here and not in a foreign country. If you were an immigrant then maybe I could rationalize your position somewhat on this but you are not. You were born into the culture of this country and even though some of your ancestors may have been born in a foreign country with a different culture and you are retaining some of their culture which is ok, I do not understand this denial of a basic culture coming from an American citizen.

Let's just let it go, shall we?

Vicente Duque said...

Capitalists and Industrialists have to be intelligent - Minority Dolls - The smell of Gold and the Dollar - The Color of the Economy - Vespasian, Tito

Capitalists and Industrialists have to be intelligent every day, they can not abandon themselves to the foolishness of Racism and Hatred. Being a Rich Industrialist is like riding a bicycle, you have to pedal constantly.

Big Corporation Mattel has released a NEW black Barbie doll.

"Dora, the Explorer" is a registered trademark of Big Corporations Nickelodeon and Viacom.

Now the sales of "Dora, the explorer" are skyrocketing in America and around the world. They are a superb Business.

I guess Dora has some universality and can represent other races. I say the same for the "Black" Barbie and for "Black" Obama.

There will be many customers for these "Minority" Barbies :

Black, Latina, Asian, Native American, etc ... or Latina Barbie.

We see that the Economy works with many colors and complexions. With many textures, and appearances of the skin, especially that of the face.

Does the Economy have a color ??

Does the dollar have a color ?? .... that doesn't matter, its color can be changed.

When his son ( future Emperor ) Tito complained to Emperor Vespasian about the taxes for letrines in Rome ( bath rooms ) ..... Then Emperor Vespasian took a gold coin and said ??

Hey Tito, smell this - What is the odor of Gold ??

What is the smell of the Dollar ??

Raciality.com

Vicente Duque

Anonymous said...

The new black Barbie from Mattell looks like there was a white guy in the wood shed.

As far as assimilation goes, Mexican writer Alma Guillermoprieto describes the importance of assimilation in Mexico in her essay "Mexico City 1992", to be found in her compilation book "The heart that bleeds".

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Your assertion that "We are not northern Europe" is just as accurate as the like statement "We are not Mexico".

I really don't care what Tacredo said, and I think both Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olberman are full of S**T.

JS said...

Well let's just not discuss Tancredo and his views then since you interpret them differently than I do.

I am waiting for you to post my last remarks and then you and I can discuss what diversity and assimilation really means on a one and one basis, ok? How about I ask you some questions about this issue and our culture and you give me some direct answers, ok? Sound fair?

Dee said...

Anonymous,
You are right on the mark!!
We are NOT Mexico either.
We are the USA!! We are a unique, melting pot! Our own!!

Dee said...

JS,
Anonymous got what I was saying right away.

I don't know how anyone can interpret Tancredo's remarks any way differently than what he said. He said assimilation = White Anglo Saxon.

He is wrong. Period! We are not White Anglo Saxon nor will we ever assimilate to White Anglo Saxon.

We are the USA. We have our own unique culture which continues to evolve. We are not the same as we were in 1776, 1865, 1950, 1980 or 2000. Our own advancements have helped us, including the Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement, social programs like Medicare/Social Security, and our technological advancements.

Granted that ethnicities/race have fluctuated in the USA and for many years White Northern Europeans have been a majority. Granted those dominant over various years have attempted to exclude new groups from entering (e.g.: Irish, German, Italian, Eastern/Southern European, Asian/Oriental, Middle Eastern, Latino) but each group continued to immigrant, again changing the culture of our country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States

Check out the ethnicity map of the USA and you will see the Southwest are majority minority states and have been for a few years.

And JS, this discussion has never been about speaking Spanish. It is about the USA and our evolving culture - melting pot.

And yes, I do resent Tancredo's statements of White Anglo Saxon Assimilation. And we don't have to talk about his quotes anymore because they speak for themselves.

Anonymous said...

Ok, since it is agreed that this is America and not either Mexico or Europe, how about if we get rid of contrived victimization, manufactured grievance, and racist ethnic nationalism in the form of Chicano Class?

Dee said...

Anonymous,

On another forum, a commenter from Mexico called all Mexican Americans = Gringos.

You were absolutely right in your earlier assessment. We are not Mexico. And we are NOT Northern Europe.

We are the USA. A cultural melting pot.
epluribus unum
"E pluribus unum: out of many one. One state made of many states. One culture made of many cultures. One tribe made of many tribes. One clan made of many clans. One family made of many families. Made of individuals as unique and precious as life itself. "

Dee said...

JS,
One more thing.

Example of cultural changes in America:

1950s/1960s:
When I was a little girl, whenever we went to church or a restaurant, we always dressed up. My dad was a factory worker, but he always wore a suit and tie and a fedora hat. My mom always wore a dress and heals.

Today:
Nowadays, everyone dresses casually going out to dinner. People wear jeans or slacks or shorts.

Restaurants are different then vs now:
In the old days, most restaurants served "american" food. Today, more exotic restaurants open every day.

In the old days, very few fast foods. Today, fast foods of every type.

Music is different. Dance is different. Dress is VERY different. Worship is very different.

Dallas/Fort Worth, where I live, is loaded with every ethnicity. We have very ethnically diverse churches in my little suburb including Korean and Vietnamese.

The USA today is not your grandpappies USA of old!

Dee said...

Anonymous,
Contrived??? The Detention Centers are contrived? Racial Profiling is contrived? The 40% increase in Hate Crimes against Latinos is Contrived? Tancredo, Arpaio, Shawna Baker and those MMs that are violent are contrived? I hardly think so.

Latinos, like all Americans, want equality and freedom and the opportunity, through their own hard work, to achieve the American Dream.

anon said:
"contrived victimization, manufactured grievance, and racist ethnic nationalism in the form of Chicano Class?"

Anonymous said...

Dee,

The words are probably more like "agringado" or "pocho".

A lot of contrived victimization; manufactured grievance; brown racist ethnic nationalism: yes. without a doubt.

I particularly cherish this passage by Hispanic writer Richard Rodriguez.

"I saw Cesar Chavez again, a year ago, at a black tie benefit in... San Jose. The organizers of the event ushered him into the ... room under a canopy of hush and tenderness and parked him at the center table where he sat blinking. How fragile the great can seem. How much more substantial we... seemed, the Mexican American haute bourgeoisie as we stood to pay our homage - orange women in fur coats, affirmative action..., film makers, investment bankers, fat cats and stuffed shirts and bleeding hearts - stood applauding our little saint. Cesar Chavez reminded us that night who our grandparents used to be.

Then Mexican waiters served champagne.

Success is a terrible dilemma for Mexican Americans, like being denied some soul sustaining sacrament. Without the myth of victimization - who are we? We are no longer Mexicans. We are professional Mexicans. We hire Mexicans. After so many years thinking ourselves exempt from some common myth of America, we might as well be Italians.

Anonymous said...

If we wish to pick here and there to "prove" victimization and hate crime, how about if we look at these folks, who are actually not all that uncommon and have somewhat of the same mentality as Shawna Forde:

=>The Avenues is a largely Hispanic gang controlled by the Mexican Mafia from within the California state prison system. The 222-page indictment unsealed Tuesday describes how the group tries to terrorize blacks who venture into its territory in Northeast Los Angeles. “Neighborhoods controlled by the Avenues gang are frequently ‘tagged’ with racist threats directed against African-Americans that are intended to intimidate African-Americans and prevent African-Americans from living in the neighborhood,” it said. “Avenues gang members also confront African-Americans with threats of violence and murder in order to intimidate and prevent African-Americans from residing in or entering the neighborhoods controlled by the Avenues gang.” <=

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/09/23/huge-bust-in-los-angeles-targets-anti-black-street-gang/

=>A Latino street gang in a small city in Los Angeles County waged a campaign of racist violence and intimidation that was designed to drive out the city's African-American residents, according to recently unsealed federal indictments of 147 members and associates of the Varrio Hawaiian Gardens.<=

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1079

Dee said...

Anon,
No. Actually she used the word "Gringo." But to your point, probably the same intent.

The American Latinos identity is evolving. When my parents were young, they could not use the same restrooms, drink from the same water fountains as "whites." Blacks and Asians had this same experience.

When I came around, conditions were somewhat better, but not much. I remember when we picked Cherries in the Traverse City area, all the workers were called Mexicans. We as migrants were segregated to our own swimming areas and the 11:00 am Mass on Sunday was reserved for Mexicans.

After the civil rights movement there were many improvements. As I talk about this, I also know that Mexico has its own set of "class" problems. I disagree with classism and racism in any regard. I believe in equality and freedom for all.

My father believed in Education and encouraged all of his children to complete our education. He also encouraged us to find careers, not just take any job. Three of my brothers and one sister joined the military, the rest of us went into various business fields.

I am American. I am a Latina. Proud of my country and my heritage. Like my father, I believe if you study and work hard enough, you can achieve the American Dream. I also know there is injustice in the world. You may get knocked down a thousand times. Success is not measured by your accomplishments, but in your ability to get up after being knocked down.

My point in saying this is, it doesn't matter if the commenter from Mexico calls me or any other Mexican American "gringo" or "pocho" because we don't speak spanish well enough for their standards. And you know what? The workers here are learning English, working hard, encouraging their children to complete their education, driving cars, watching football, and turning into American Latinos just like me.

Dee said...

Anon,
No one is picking here and there re: victimization but you.

No one denies there are gangs in our country. There have been gangs since our country began. Prisons and Detention Centers are not helping the situation.

Last week, I saw "Tent City - Maricopa County" on the Discovery Channel. The racial profiling Arpaio does, arresting car wash workers and throwing them in his Tent Cities is sure not helping anything. His Tent Cities are set up by gangs and are segregated by race/ethnicity. Can you imagine the indoctrination in those hell holes? Deplorable.

Dee said...

I do agree with Janet Napolitano and Eric Holder's strategy to target felonious criminals, drug cartels/gangs in their ICE Raids, vs targetting workers (e.g. Car Washes) like Arpaio does.

Dee said...

I love America. We are a melting pot/salad bowl. We are a land of Immigrants.
"E pluribus unum: out of many one. One state made of many states. One culture made of many cultures. One tribe made of many tribes. One clan made of many clans. One family made of many families. Made of individuals as unique and precious as life itself. "

Anonymous said...

Why do you repeat yourself over and over and over? What is wrong with you?

In one post you say NO we don't have to assimilate and then in another one you say we are assimilating, blah, blah, blah. You contradict yourself over and over.

"Out of many come ONE". Do you know what ONE means? It means single not multi in culture. More of your contradictions.

Our country was founded on Anglo-Saxon culture with a White majority. It still is that way! English is still our language. Tacos are not our traditional food. It is an ethnic food. Our favorite pastime is baseball not soccer. You constantly confuse the issue just because there are minority groups in this country. It doesn't mean anything they are only a small part of the melting pot! As JS said, Anglo-Saxon culture is the basics of the melting pot that goes back to this country's founding and still is while other cultures have added some seasonings. Our culture has not evolved much at all when you consider all of the above. You only wish it were so because of your hatred of white culture and white people in this country. Own up to your racism! We are not going to be just another Hispanic country no matter how badly you want it. It would be just as erroneous for me to say that the Hispanic culture has never been Mexico's culture and to gleefully say that I can't wait for it to change to an Anglo culture instead. Your claims of wanting a multi-cultural society are just a coverup for your real agenda and you like minorities only because they aren't white. You are a brown, racist supremist to the core!

Anonymous said...

Dee,

Here are some excerpts from a 2009 piece by Luis Torres, a broadcast news reporter, concerning the Chicano walkout of 1968 At Abraham Lincoln School in East Los Angeles (which he participated in), and the condition of how things are 40 years later now that the LAUSD school board has long been changed into something Mr Torres approves of.

Respectfully, can you tell me what Mr. Torres is trying to say?

Links for the full story and the LAUSD Board of Education is provided below.

Thank you.





We stood up, and it mattered.

By Luis Torres


Thursday, Oct. 22, 2009


The Chicano walk out of 1968 was about dignity and fundamental change that we're still striving for...

We also wanted to protest the conditions that led to a drop out rate hovering around 45%. Barely half of us were making it out of high school. Something was desperately wrong and we wanted to do something about it...

I gained a pride in my heritage that made me more comfortable with who I was -- a young man whose parents were from Mexico. I overcame the shame that I used to feel as a kid when my mother "spoke funny" in public. ..

In those times, I remember reading that "the best way to get the Man off your back is to stand up." We stood up on that day...

Forty years ago, the Los Angeles school board was the Man. Today it is an ally with the community in the effort to improve education...

The drop out rate at my alma mater, Lincoln High School, and the other Eastside high schools is still about 45%...

Luís Torres, a broadcast news reporter for 25 years, is a Los Angeles writer.

PDF:

http://classjump.com/mrcilker/docume...20mattered.pdf

HTML:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,5135201.story

LAUSD School board
http://laschoolboard.org/

LMJ said...

"Why do you repeat yourself over and over and over? What is wrong with you?

In one post you say NO we don't have to assimilate and then in another one you say we are assimilating, blah, blah, blah. You contradict yourself over and over.

"Out of many come ONE". Do you know what ONE means? It means single not multi in culture. More of your contradictions.

Our country was founded on Anglo-Saxon culture with a White majority. It still is that way! English is still our language. Tacos are not our traditional food. It is an ethnic food. Our favorite pastime is baseball not soccer. You constantly confuse the issue just because there are minority groups in this country. It doesn't mean anything they are only a small part of the melting pot! As JS said, Anglo-Saxon culture is the basics of the melting pot that goes back to this country's founding and still is while other cultures have added some seasonings. Our culture has not evolved much at all when you consider all of the above. You only wish it were so because of your hatred of white culture and white people in this country. Own up to your racism! We are not going to be just another Hispanic country no matter how badly you want it. It would be just as erroneous for me to say that the Hispanic culture has never been Mexico's culture and to gleefully say that I can't wait for it to change to an Anglo culture instead. Your claims of wanting a multi-cultural society are just a coverup for your real agenda and you like minorities only because they aren't white. You are a brown, racist supremist to the core!"

Well Anon what does that make you? It's ppl like you red-stater mayberry idiots (I know Dee hates name calling but this is to even out Anon's "You are a brown, racist supremist to the core" comment) that gives this country a bad name. Why don't you just shut your mouth and contribute to the discussion instead of your non-sense blathering. It's really boring.

Proletariat Defender said...

Ok, I have a trivia question for all:

Name 3 countries that has a widely diverse population that doesn't have "culture" or "race" issues:

Go......

Dee said...

Anonymous/Ilbegone,
We all understand the issues with innercity schools. The fact that they are underfunded/undersupplied does not help innercity students who may require additional attention vs the pampered suburban schools that have well stocked computer rooms and facilities.

Torres does have one opinion.
Here is another by Raul Contreras:
http://articles.latimes.com/2008
/mar/12/opinion/oew-contreras12

I agree with Contreras. Education is the great equalizer.

As with other immigrants, American Latinos - who have been here more than 1 generation have increased performance, and more are in the middle and upper income categories.

Dee said...

Proletariat,
My husband and I were just talking about this at lunch. We decided Greece and Canada. And all countries are multi cultural now.

According to the World Peace Index, the most Peaceful country in the world is New Zealand.

You'll notice the USA is pretty far down the list at number 83.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Global_Peace_Index

Anonymous said...

Dee,

I'm glad you put the two and two together, makes it easier, and as obvious as I am, I believed you would get there. It seems that one anonymous can be confused with another anonymous, with great potential for misunderstanding.

There is not much difference between the criminality of Shawna Forde and criminality of the Avenues and Varrio Hawaiian Gardens. The like issue involves territory and race, and resorts to violent means to achieve the racist notion of what is right. The main difference between the two is that Forde is white and her racism is on the border, the gang bangers are brown and their racism involves fellow American citizens who happen to be black. The contrived difference in their characters is that the gang bangers are claimed by some to be victims of a white society, whereas Forde could not make such a claim. The odd thing is that only whites are presumed capable of criminality borne of racism.

And now we get into unjust characterizations: It would as unreasonable for me to associate you with LA Gang bangers as it would for you to associate me or anyone else you don't know with Shawna Forde, Neo Nazis, or the various present incarnations of the Klan.

The notion that blindly throwing money at schools will improve education is disingenuous, regardless of whether the school is rural, suburban, or inner city.

Utah spends the least per pupil in the United States, and has an 88% graduation rate.

Arizona is 49th in the country for per pupil spending, the graduation rate is 69%

I don't have the figures in front of me, but I believe Texas spends less than California, but has a graduation rate of 72%

Digging between and under propaganda and obfuscation, California is somewhere in the middle for per pupil spending, and has a 68% graduation rate.

New York spends the most per pupil, but, like California, is so subject to so much statistical fudging that the graduation rate is variously figured somewhere between 65% and 77%.

Rural Crystal City Independent School District in Texas, which is famous for the La Raza Unida takeover in the early 70's and pioneering the first bilingual educational program in the nation, seems to have about the same graduation as Abraham Lincoln High School in East Los Angeles.

Throughout the nation, Latinos have, significantly by far, in study after study, the lowest graduation rate, whether city, rural, or suburban.

So, we have to look at the problem in a different light, and some things are beyond an educator's ability to fix, such as general cultural notions. I believe much of the problem has do with a sub culture which generally, retaining Mexican tradition, looks backward rather than forward, and educator's resumes which have similar qualifications to this:

“Ms. García was born and raised in East Los Angeles. She attended local schools and graduated from the University of California, Berkeley with Bachelor of Arts degrees in Chicano Studies and Political Science. She later earned her Masters in Social Work from the University of Southern California.”

So, we have 40 years of Chicano Studies which has accomplished nothing but demographic change by a doctrine of pushing unlimited migration, with continued illiteracy and a drop out rate which has remained unchanged for forty years by an educational system co-opted by racial politics, which demands ever more dollars to fail in a foreign language on an ever larger scale.

Thank you for your generosity in allowing my expression.

Ilbegone

JS said...

The non-French Canadians are at odds with the French Canadians much of the time. So much for the claims that two competing cultures can live in peace with each other.

If the U.S. is at number 83 as far as peace within their borders then that doesn't say much for multi-culterism either, does it?

In recent years we have gotten away from being a melting pot and drifting to a salad bowl instead by certain groups who want to retain separatism so we will continue to have low ratings for peace within our borders. We are supposed to be "from many, one" but it is becoming "from many, many" instead.

At least we have been able to retain the basic culture of this country which includes the English language. I wonder how much longer that will last with the above atttitude?

Anonymous said...

I don't know what you mean by all countries are multi-cultural now. China still remains culturally Asian along with their languages still intact even though there are a few other ethnic groups living there. Same goes for most other countries. Has Germany, Italy, France, Spain, etc. become multi-cultural rather than retaining their natural identities and cultures just because there are other ethnic groups living there in minority numbers? I don't think so!

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
I'm glad you agreed to out yourself and separate yourself from the other anonymous commenters.
You mention so many topics....
Let's start with Education, the great equalizer.
Drop out rates for 16 - 24 yr olds
. foreign born is greater than native born.
. male is greater than female
. lower income is greater than higher income.


I did not say that throwing more money at education will make a difference. What I can say is that the time and quality of education DOES make a difference and I say this from experience.

When I was a child, my parents scrimped and saved to send me and my siblings to parachocial school. The nuns in first grade paid special attention to each student. I know I received my share of attention. They helped me believe in myself and taught me that I was just as smart as the other students and could perform just as well. I even won my 1st grade spelling bee. The nuns treated us all the same and being a minority did not make a difference at all. We were all disciplined and given plenty of homework. We were expected to know our lessons and turn in our homework. By the time I went to public school, in 4th grade, I was well ahead of the public school students. I was always put in advanced classes. Then in 8th grade, we moved and I had to go to an innercity school. It was entrenched in poverty. Since I came in midyear, I was enrolled in regular ed classes. The teachers did not expect much from their students and the students reciprocated by not providing much back. I was miserable. I was used to school and learning being fun. I can appreciate what the students go through in innercity poverty stricken schools. Just miserable.
It wasn't until high school that things went back to normal and I found teachers who cared and school became fun again. They helped me chart my course to complete my education and find a career.

By the time I had kids, I knew to move to the suburbs and find the best schools. It makes such a difference for students to be in an environment where the teachers care, they have the proper tools/equipment, and have time to teach and encourage their students. It also helps for schools to have adequate extracurricular/sports activities. Sports makes such a difference in keeping students involved and focused on their goals.

Dee said...

Regarding Shawna Forde and her association with the Minutemen leaders, I have reported extensively on this story. It would take an entire blog to go over this. Suffice it to say she did have strong connections with Jim Gilchrist, Glenn Spencer, Chris Simcox and several people in the ANTI movement, even though they deny it now. I disagree with many of their armed border watch activities. I could go on and on but it would take an entire blog to discuss it.

Regarding the Gangs and innercity violence, Drugs Use/Drug Cartels in the USA and Mexico, I have written extensively about this as well. The USA is the number 1 drug abuser in the world. The demand has created the distribution which resulted in the drug cartels/wars in countries like Mexico, China, Russia == they are all fighting to be our number 1 dealer. These suppliers have created these vicious and violent cartels which has resulted in very, very dangerous gangs in their countries and in the USA.

Everytime I blog about this, there is a certain contingent that says, sure the USA is the number 1 drug abuser but so what. Legalize drugs. I disagree. I think drugs should be outlawed and we should should have a war on drugs. I fully support Janet Napolitano and Eric Holder in their focusing their energies on felonious criminals, drug cartels, and gangs and if they are not citizens, to imprison then deport them. ICE should focus their energies on these felons instead of workers (as Arpaio does in his sweeps).

Regarding the LA Latino Gangs and their war against Black Gangs, I understand the wars started from the prison gangs and much of this is related to the Drug Cartels. I know I saw a documentary recently on the Discovery Channel on the Tent Prisons in Maricopa County and arpaio has his prison separated out by ethnic gangs. Can you imagine what these innocent car wash detainees are learning in these tent cities run by ethic gangs? If they don't do what the leaders tell them, they are killed. This behavior just breeds more violence.

Proletariat Defender said...

Dee,

Yet another example of American's short memories:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/27/greek-islands-immigration-tensions-soar
Greece struggles to cope as immigration tensions soar

The revolt at conditions in overflowing detention centres is causing scenes of chaos in the 'backdoor into Europe'. Helena Smith reports from Athens

Greek authorities are desperately trying to cope with a surge of migrants on to the country's islands which has left detention centres overflowing.

Last week, amid chaotic scenes, hundreds of migrants demonstrated against "inhuman conditions" in a detention camp on Mytilene, the capital of Lesbos, in a protest that saw hunger-striking minors setting fire to mattresses and attacking guards. The clashes highlighted the rising anger on island outposts that are being overwhelmed by a double influx of holidaymakers and illegal migrants.

........

Proletariat Defender said...

I find this interesting, a report from Harvard (yes, Barack's Harvard):

http://www.wcfia.harvard.edu/node/507

To Farms or Cities: An Historical Tension Between Canada and Its Immigrants
Download: PDF 54.31 KB
by Harold Troper

For much of Canadian history, particularly during the critical era of mass migration that straddled the decades of the turn of the century, the government may have welcomed immigrants with an open hand, but that same hand was also forcefully pressing immigrants into a narrowly–defined geographic and economic corner. Indeed, what distinguishes Canadian immigration history during the first half of this century, and makes it so different from that of the United States, is the degree to which Canadian immigration policy and practice was predicated on the notion that the place for non–English speaking immigrants, foreigners as they were commonly called, and for their Canadian–born children and children's children through the generations was in the Canadian hinterland, engaged in farming and extractive labor.
Publication Type: Conference Paper
Published Date:
Field of Interest: Global Issues

Proletariat Defender said...

BTW, New Zealand has very few immigrants a year, and even less diversity.

But it is a booming tourist area and gateway to the Antarctic.

Also, the lead the world in renewable energy, 70% of all their electricity is Hydro. The US, however, is only 12% Hydro and 70% burning fuels (coal, oil NG).

Anonymous said...

Dee,

Concerning the schools:

The point is that Latino students across America graduate at a rate far less than their classmates in like conditions, regardless of native born or foreign born.

This is in spite of the dollars thrown at their education designed to cater to Latino students with Mexican family origins, including "bilingual education" which places English speaking only Latinos in Spanish speaking classes; ubiquitous Chicano faculty; a selective, idealized, desk produced interpretation of Mexican culture pushed at them; and all the rest.

The schools seem to figuratively try to push the kids back to their ancestor's Mexico rather than educate them in real time America.

K-12 takes 40% of the California budget, while higher education takes another 12%, over half.

We can argue about the reasons, but the facts speak for themselves.

So, we have to look at other factors.

We could always explore Octavio Paz's statement in the Labyrinth of Solitude concerning Pachucos, and by Mexican logical extension concerning all things north, Mexican Americans in general.

I believe most Mexican nationals tend not to have much of a plan beyond this evening, unless it involves a party on the weekend. And to become Americanized is a cultural betrayal to Mexico. I believe both scenarios tend to culturally rub onto their American raised children. Family attitude is usually beyond what the school can change.

Since the early 70's, I have witnessed Asian children in family restaurants doing their home work in a back booth before they help out on the floor. I've never witnessed such a thing in restaurants owned by Mexican nationals. You already know which has by far the higher graduation rate.

An additional reason could be that we import people at a rate faster than the group can be educated with available resources.

Here is something I wrote elsewhere, I hope you don't mind me pasting it here:

"The failure of Chicano studies isn't the failure of Chicanistas to ursurp the educational system or insert themselves into politics (as evidenced by that loony bin masquerading as the California State Legislature).

The failure is that the Chicano "visionaries" of the early years miscalculated the effect of cultural memory of Mexico and the imprint of its history on its people as well as many who are derived from both Mexico and America but belong to neither.

Including the founders of the movement.

Yet, let's bring in more Mexico to make America into something radical, racist Chicanismo can't actually live with but pretends to be - Mexico and Mexican. (Why else would they push such a selectively interpreted parody of Mexican culture in school?)

Take Villaraigosa, for example. He was a radical Mechista who instigated a lot of s**t for his racist cause in college. Which, of course, he now has to distract from whenever it is brought up. Makes him look so like a racist. Politics, you know.

Now that he is the Mayor of Los Angeles, what is he presiding over?

A bankrupt bag filled full of imported foreign poverty and an over sized number of their American born children throwing it all away through ignorance and fratricide.

With rich white people still living on the hill getting non stop richer from it all."

Ilbegone

Anonymous said...

I don't have a lot of time, but I leave a thought about Shawna Forde and the various minute man organizations (The Nazis are a different matter):

I don't personally know any of those people you mentioned.

The women who went out with Ted Bundy didn't realize what he truly was until it was too late. It would be nice if the women had lived to be castigated for hanging around with such a dirt bag. Who hasn't misjudged character at one time or another?

However, Forde was a lucky stroke for the open borders crowd - she is a much better rallying point than anyone who has hid in a church for a year or so, then subsequently deported.

Despite cynical opportunism exploiting cold blooded murder for an agenda.

I remember reading in La Opinion about "vigilantes with guns that can kill elephants" in the early 2000's, but that seems to have been the only argument until Forde happened around - endless, unsubstantiated allegation.

I have more, but it will have to wait.

ilbegone

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
I can only speak from experience. I know my family and extended family. We all have completed our education and have careers in business or in the military. My children, nieces and nephews are continuing the tradition. In my home town, many of the Latino families were like us. All the Latino business people I know are like us. In my neighborhood today, the Latino families that are here are like us.
In my home town we had Latino churches full of Latino families that worshipped together. Many of them worked in the auto industry.

Are you Latino? Do you have association with Latino families? You dont' know any Latino families that are Christian? You don't know any Latino families whose children study and complete their education? You don't know any Latino families who are in military.

You must live in an isolated area in the innercity.

Dee said...

There are many more people who have committed Hate Crimes against Latinos beside Shawna Forde and her crew.

Dannie Baker murdered innocent Chilean Students in NW Florida last year. The students were here legally, but Baker shot and murdered them because the thought they were "illeegals."

Piekarsky and Donchak murdered Luis Ramirez, telling him to go back to Mexico.

The Caucasian Crew in New York murdered Marcelo Lucero. He too was here legally but the crew often went to Patchogue to "beaner jump" -- that night they murdered Luis.

There are countless such cases. The FBI says since all of this Immigration rhetoric has been going on over the last few years that Hate Crimes against Latinos has gone up over 40%.

Anonymous said...

Dee,

I'll give you my "resume"

First I have to clear something up.

On that agenda ridden quasi governmental website, they asked some questions to which I objected. I wasn't there on a social quest or anything like that. So I gave them some BS to fill in the registration form. Among it was the disinformation that I was female, which ended up being kind of weird and uncomfortable, affected how I posted (didn't want anyone to think that I was lesbian, although I have otherwise regularly claimed to be a lesbian trapped in a man's body).

That out of the proverbial closet...

I have worked in one sort or another construction all my life, as well as some agriculture and manufacturing. I got my basic belief concerning illegal migration from direct experience.

No social theory from some removed from reality educator dreaming up how society is.

(I am reminded of the Latino businessman who said that in college he was a "Che Guevarra" style communist, only to become a hard core capitalist when he opened shop)

I've also worked at residences from the very rich to the very poor of all ethnic and racial groups from the width of California to the southern border to north of Redding. I've been in their back yards from Brentwood estates to Logan Barrio in San Diego to the farm housing of the San Joaquin Valley, and muuuuch more.

The woman of my life...

Her father was born in Guanajuato, the mother in Chihuahua.

I like the whole family, except for her son, who, as I discovered long after I met him, is a very prejudiced Latino Activist. However, I knew exactly where I stood with him the very first time I met the man, we've exchanged at most twenty words in all this time. Colege educated, he didn't learn his routine in his mother's house, that's for sure.

I'll call her Elena. She grew up in the same Latino world as uber racist Armando Navarro, but I have yet to see any of Navarro style mentality in the family except for the son, nor any of the many Mexican Americans I have known over the years, regardless of their age, and some are venerable indeed.

Continued in next post ilbegone

Anonymous said...

I have a window on early Mexican American life from one life removed from the end of the Porfiriato, a handful of children of Mexican Revolution refugees, and the transformation from Mexican to Mexican American through these people, whom I all like.

Yet, I have seen that prejudice is not just a white man's disease, from illegal aliens I have worked with to other Mexican American's I have worked with and around.

I find it interesting that not a one of those older people, who have told me many things concerning white and brown in the old days, not a one has ever said anything like they got beatings in school for speaking Spanish. I got a lot of a** whackings in school, but I chalk that up to being a smart a**.

I have seen with my own eyes what has happened to the trades and southern California with unfettered illegal immigration.

There is a man I saw today who is a former director of our apprenticeship. He is Latino, and there were quite a number of kids who went through his program who didn't belong in the trade at all - wouldn't matter the race. But he gave them the answers to the tests so that they could be "representative" in the trade, and indirectly disrespecting the man, those Latino kids bragged about it.

What the former apprenticeship director did was just as wrong as if those kids were qualified and shot down because they were brown with Spanish last names. He has contributed to the disintergration of the trade by passing on the unqualified, and did his fellow Latino's an injustice in just whom he chose to represent Latinos.

And, everything is not cut and dried - the more I learn the more questions there are.

Please direct me to the ORIGINAL governmental source of the claim that hate crimes are up 40%, how that figure was derived and by whom.

Most violence in America is perpetrated by members of the same race.

There's plenty of hate everywhere. That Neo Nazi rally in Riverside this afternoon had hate racists tending both sides of the issue of illegal immigration.

Thank you, ilbegone.

Anonymous said...

Most of the Mexican illegals coming across our border however are not educated as your family was. Most of their kids drop out of school. See the difference? Far too many Latinos both legal and illegal do adhere to Chicanoism which is separatism and loyalty to Mexico and its culture rather than assimilation to ours and they teach their children that also. Whether you see it in yourself or not it is apparant from your views that you also subconsciensly adhere to the Chicano phylosophy in many ways.

As for increased violence towards Latinos although it is wrong the reason is because they make up the majority of illegals in our country and Americans are getting fed up. Blame the source not the truth that is being spoken about the harm it has done our country.

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
You do have an interesting backstory. My guess is you are in your 40's/50's, a long time construction worker. You say you have a Mexican American girlfriend with a son you don't like.
You probably grew up in CA surrounded by a number of Chicano movement people. You disagreed with them from the onset, and this association has colored your thoughts going forward.

We have 50M American Latinos in our country -- all citizens. The census is telling us there are about 11M (down from 12M) "illegal immigrants" in our country now. 40% are visa overstays and of the remaining 60% about 40% are from Mexico. My guess is you are totally focused on that 40% and you make assumptions on the remainder of the 11M plus the 50M citizens based on your assumptions. All of your assumptions are based on your perceptions. To you, your perceptions are your reality -- and, at least in certain experiences you've had, some are true.

But understand this, your personal experiences are not the reality for overall.

Let me give you an example. My great grandfather had 12 children. My grandfather had 11. My father 10. My great grandfather and his wife begat tens of thousands of family members. Even within my own family, my 5 brothers and 4 sisters each had 2 - 10 children each. My mother had over 70grandchildren and great grandchildren.

We are all Citizens. All ae at least partial Latinos. (many of us intermarried) We are all educated, working or in military, Christian.

There are thousands and thousands of families like mine. We've been here for centuries. We are everywhere throughout the country. 50M of us.

Go back to your data. It is the newly arrived that have the higher dropout rate.

There is one other data point you should consider. The GED rate. I do have at least 2 nieces who did drop out, go to the party life for a while, and then finished school and are now working.

We are all Americanized. Happy. Working.

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
The FBI reported the 40% increase in Hate Crimes against Latinos.

Do a google search and many links will come up. Google this:

fbi 40% increase hate crimes latino

Anonymous said...

Your stats are wrong. The census counts both citizens and non-citizens in their numbers. There isn't 50 million Hispanic citizens in this country.

Your stats are off again. Yes, 40%are visa overstayers and 60% never had papers to come here. But out of that 60%, about 80% are Mexicans and a smaller pecentage from other Latino countries. I don't know where you got your stats because you can google them and find that my stats are correct and not yours. You told another poster to google so you can do that also on this.

Anonymous said...

Your stats are wrong, Dee. Of the 60% that never had a visa and are here illegally, 80% of them are Mexicans while other Latinos make most of the balance of that 60%.

There are not 50 million Hispanic citizens either. The census counts citizens and non-citizens together. At tops there are only 40 million Hispanic citizens.

Anonymous said...

Dee,

You can make as many guesses as you like, it's fine. No problem.

What I will add is that I don't like racists of any kind, racism is an equal opportunity disease. As I said above, the incident in Riverside yesterday had hate racists on both sides of the immigration issue.

I'm glad you brought up the difference between those born here and those who came here illegally, I don't hear that very often. “Latino” is essentially a meaningless word, with no distinction as to nationality, legality, race, language, culture, political belief, or much of anything else: useful mainly for obfuscation of issue.

The “Latino world” has a lot of cracks and fissures in it.

Nothing like white, Cuban sounding newscasters on Spanish language news in southern California.

And two Mexican nationals who can't understand each others Mexican Spanish dialects will pick up immediately the pocho in someone who learned Spanish in a southern California home from Mexican national parents.

I related it elsewhere, but I'll never forget the Mexican woman a few years ago who had originally illegally entered the United States and who vehemently informed me that “Mexicans” born in the US might eat beans and tortillas, but they definitely weren't Mexican. However, she left out of the conversation her own American born children and gabacho husband.

Continued below, ilbegone

Anonymous said...

continued:

I got this from a federal government report which has lots of statistics, but I unfortunately neglected to keep the link, the page can be found easy enough:

**
High School Dropout and Completion Rates in the United States: 2007

Compendium Report

data for the District of Columbia, and Vermont were suppressed because
reporting standards were not met


Status dropout rates by race/ethnicity: The 2007 status dropout rates of Whites (5.3 percent) and Asians/Pacific Islanders (6.1 percent) were the lowest among the racial/ethnic groups considered in this report. The Black status dropout rate was 8.4 percent, followed by the Hispanic rate (21.4 percent) (table 6).

2007, the South and the West had higher status dropout rates (10.1 percent and 10.0 percent, respectively) than the Northeast and the Midwest (6.8 percent each)

Status completion rates by race/ethnicity: In 2007, among 18- through 24-year-olds not currently enrolled in high school, Whites and Asians/Pacific Islanders had higher status completion rates (93.5 percent and 93.1 percent, respectively) than Blacks (88.8 percent) or Hispanics (72.7 percent)

In 2007, some 56.1 percent of foreign-born Hispanics ages 18–24 who were not currently enrolled in high school had completed high school (table 9). Compared to foreign-born Hispanics, status completion rates were higher for Hispanics born in the United States

(85.9 percent for “first generation” and 85.1 percent for “second generation or higher”), although in each immigrant category Hispanics were less likely than non-Hispanics to have earned a high school credential

Status completion rates by region: Consistent with status dropout data by region, 18- through 24-year-olds in the South and West had lower status completion rates (87.2 percent and 87.1 percent, respectively) than their contemporaries in the Northeast (92.1 percent) and Midwest (91.4 percent)

However, the problem is not, as the “educators” try to insinuate, a lack of funding.

**

Concerning hate crimes against Latinos increasing 40% : I tried the search suggested and found only a multitude of links which didn't signify a direct FBI source stating the claim as fact. It is similar to the far right Rex 84 conspiracy theory – not one verifiable concentration camp and link referring to link... all in a big circle.

I did find an FBI page which had a table on it concerning hate crimes in 1987. As I interpret it, there were 595 hate crimes against Hispanics in 1987.

Among how many millions of everyone?

If you have an original source direct from the FBI which specifically states that hate crimes against Latinos are up 40%, I'd appreciate it if you would send it my way.

Thank you, ilbegone.

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
Here is the FBI.gov website.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007
/victims.htm

Ethnicity/national origin bias
Hate crimes motivated by the offender’s bias toward a particular ethnicity/national origin were directed at 1,347 victims. Of these victims:

■61.6 percent were targeted because of an anti-Hispanic bias.
■38.4 percent were victimized because of a bias against other ethnicities/national origins.

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
As I said, the Census bureau says we have 47.8 Hispanics in the USA. (I rounded this to 50M)
By 2050, we will have 102.6M.
As I said, the majority reside in the SW states, from TX to CA.

You can study all the reports you would like on this website:

http://www.census.gov/population/
www/socdemo/hispanic/
hispanic_pop_presentation.html


I believe these numbers are vastly under-reported due to the fact the reports rely on self reporting and does not take into consideration those that are x% hispanic. Example: my sons are both half hispanic, yet on forms they check the box white or caucasian. Countless half hispanics do this. Several of my nieces/nephews do the same if they are of mixed race. What is different is my nieces who are 50% black, mark black/african american on their forms.

Dee said...

My sons, nieces and nephews of mixed races finished school. Shouldn't they be counted in the completion rates? They aren't but perhaps they should be.

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
You should not use NumbersUSA as a reference for immigration data. Their data is extremely biased. They are a sub=group of John Tanton's F.A.I.R. We all know what a racist xenophobe Tanton is. So are his groups. This is well documeneted by ADL and SPLC.

Anonymous said...

Dee,

That's the same website I was poking around in earlier, it has all 2007 statistics, and nowhere in it do I see a see an official FBI statement of fact that hate crimes against Hispanics have increased by 40%.

I just don't see it...

**

As far as the “mixed race” of your relatives (maybe a little rambling) -

Mexican Historian Enrique Krauze writes:

“...Had not Justo Sierra written that Mexican Nationality was born 'from the the first kiss of love' between Cortes and Malintzin?”

“If not from the first kiss, then from the one nine months before Martin Cortes, their mestizo son, was born in 1522...”

“... If Martin Cortes was the first mestizo, he was also the first Mexican... sometime during the during the 19th century, the mestizos became the majority and the proportions of Indians and whites steadily declined. Martin Cortes had won the battle.”

Octavio Paz, in the chapter “The Sons of La Malinche” in “The Labyrinth of Solitude”, wrote an interesting paragraph:

“The Mexican condemns all his traditions at once, the whole set of gestures, attitudes, and tendencies in which it is now difficult to to distinguish the Spaniard from the Indian. For that reason the Hispanic thesis, which would have us descend from Cortes to the exclusion of La Malinche, is the patrimony of a few extremists who are not even pure whites. The same can be said of indigenist propaganda, which is also supported by fanatical criollos and mestizos, while the Indians have never paid it the slightest attention. The Mexican does not want to be either an Indian or a Spaniard. Nor does he want to be descended from them. And he does not affirm himself as a mixture, but rather as an abstraction: he is a man. He becomes the son of Nothingness. His beginnings are in his own self.”

Powerful words which seem to me to be about much more than race or the nature of racial Mexican nationalism, in America sometimes “I am of the Mexican Race” (a quote from an indoctrinated Mexican American teen age girl, the re-implanted memory of Mexican insistence of assimilation to mestizo culture in Mexico)

However, with the 500 year obsession with race in Mexico, I have heard of up to 37 classifications of castas. I find in Historian Fehrenbach's book 22 classifications with the notion that mixed race could breed back to being white, with white fathers all the way back to “pure whiteness”. There are several classifications for blood mixed with black. So, where would your children or nieces and nephews fit into this insane colonial New Spain scheme?

However, it seems in America that our obsession with race is rather odd. Like the white Hispanic who believed herself to be “a person of color”, and who was entitled to the Hispanic affirmative action “fast track” in education due to having a Spanish last name.

I saw a Mexican meat cutter with red hair and red freckles on pasty white skin a few years ago. He looked like he should be in an Irish bar telling funny stories, but he couldn't speak a lick of English.

Or the black Hispanic with Puerto Rican origins and a New York city accent.

In America, we are obsessed with numbers, we put everyone into one of five or six “one size fits all” slots and make statistics, which, depending on the calculation method and / or employed agenda, is contorted to have different results. The question begs, why can't we all be Americans? Is there that much reward in playing victim to the modern white man in America?

ilbegone

Dee said...

Ilbegone,
Why are you quoting Mexican historians when we are discussing American Latinos? Have you no thoughts of your own on this topic? I am also quoting the census bureau stats regarding Latinos.

Additionally, you should know, Latino is NOT a race, it is an ethnicity. Latinos can be of any race/color, white, brown, red, yellow or black.

And what you are missing and diverting from is the TOPIC of this discussion.

Tom Tancredo said, "Throughout history people who are NOT white Anglo Saxon (Northern European) have become American by adopting a WHITE Anglo-Saxon (Northern European) culture." I said he was wrong. I said Barbie is teaching him a much needed lesson in Diversity. We Americans are NOT White Northern Europeans. We are NOT White Northern Europe.

We are the USA. Our culture is our own. We continue to evolve, in this melting pot/salad bowl culture.
That is the TOPIC.

You wound up quoting some theories from Mexican historians about their obsession with Cortes, Spaniards and Mestizos.

My advice to you: Stick to Topic and foggetttabbbouuttt your obsession with Mexican historians, just because your girlfriend is from Mexico and you read a few of her books. (LOL -- lighten up)

I also say the census bureau numbers are under-reported because they do not reference Latinos like my children who are half Latino. Yet you said nothing on this either.

I'm starting to think that back in the day, when you were in your youth, you went head to head with someone in the Chicano movement that hurt or offended you in such a way they made a mark on you and created this obsession of yours.

Ilbegone, that was 20 - 30 years ago. There is no more Chicano movement, at least NOT like it was then. Get over it. Let it go!

Study the issues here and now. We have 50M American Latinos here. We are NOT ALL Chicano Movement people. We are Americans and wanted to be treated equal to every other American. No more racial profiling ala arpaio. No more detention centers. No more Hate Crimes. Equality! That is what we want. The same as every other American. Land of the Free - Home of the Brave.

Dee said...

If you want to remember any movements, remember the Civil Rights Movement. Remember these quotes:

"I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
(NOT as Tancredo said, a "WHITE Ango Saxon" America)

And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men, brown men, and white men (and women), Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

Dee said...

Regarding hate crimes against hispanics, the fbi.gov website link I gave you had the following quote for 2007:

"Ethnicity/national origin bias
Of the single-bias incidents, 1,256 offenses were committed based on the perceived ethnicity or national origin of the victim. Of these offenses:

■61.7 percent were anti-Hispanic bias."

Which was higher than the other study which was over a number of years.

Wasn't your ASS-U-Mption that there were very FEW hate crimes against Hispanics? These FBI stats TOTALLY disprove your ASS-U-Mption.

Dee said...

The FBI 2006 stats are similar:

Ethnicity/national origin bias
Hate crimes motivated by the offender’s bias toward a particular ethnicity/national origin were directed at 1,305 victims. Of these victims:

■62.8 percent were targeted because of an anti-Hispanic bias.
■37.2 percent were victimized because of a bias against other ethnicities/national origins.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006
/victims.html

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "We are not and have never been Northern Europe."

The census figures below suggest that Hispanic whites as defined by their mother tongues were less than 1% of the U.S. population before 1940 and during the period when our nation was being built. The percent of blacks was somewhat higher. Howvever, if you extrapolate back to the 1700, it woul not be unreasoable to conclude that our nation was,to a great extent, a white nation of European origin and that during the following years up to 1945 when our nation was being built there were few other than whites to do the building. So it is not unreasonable to talk in those terms because the vast majority of those who built America were ineed non-Hispanic Whites.

Are we evolving into something different? Of course. Is that a good thing -- the jury is still out. It will depend on how well we retain a common language, belief in freedom and the democratic process,and a patriotism that puts the national interest above almost everything else. Some would put God and Family on a higher rung but serving the national interest usually also serves God and family as well.

The relevant census data can be found here.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ultima for telling it like it is also. I have tried to get through to Dee that we still have a "basic" white-anglo saxon culture while still being a melting pot and yet she keeps repeating the same old nonsense and even contradicts herself. We cannot be "out of many, one" and "out of many, many" at the same time. It is sad that she hates the "basic" culture of this country so much as it has always been since its founding so much that the only way she can live with it is to deny it's existance. Very strange to say the least.

How can anyone deny that English is our national language as it has been since our nation's founding? Where does she think that language came from? What culture does she think it is a part of? And that is only a part of our nation's identity that came from the same "basic" culture that we still have today.

Don't you sometimes feel like banging your head on a rock when you come in here and read the denial of the obvious?

JS said...

From Wikipedia:

The culture held in common by most Americans—mainstream American culture—is a Western culture largely derived from the traditions of European immigrants with influences from many other sources, such as traditions brought by slaves from Africa.

I rest my case but I am sure there are many more sources to back this up along with history and a day to day observance of mainstream America.

Dee said...

JS,
Why didn't you include the entire quote about Culture? It says exactly what I have been saying.

"The culture held in common by most Americans—mainstream American culture—is a Western culture largely derived from the traditions of European immigrants with influences from many other sources, such as traditions brought by slaves from Africa. More recent immigration from Asia and especially Latin America has added to a cultural mix that has been described as both a homogenizing melting pot and a heterogeneous salad bowl in which immigrants and their descendants retain distinctive cultural characteristics."

http://www.xn--unitedstates-
8y5k.com/?Codx=17681

Dee said...

Anon Ilbegone,
You are starting to get whiny boring. I never said English wasn't our National Language. I never advocated the exclusion of English for Spanish. Re-read what I said and what this topic is about:

Tom Tancredo said, "Throughout history people who are NOT white Anglo Saxon (Northern European) have become American by adopting a WHITE Anglo-Saxon (Northern European) culture." I said he was wrong. I said Barbie is teaching him a much needed lesson in Diversity. We Americans are NOT White Northern Europeans. We are NOT White Northern Europe.

We are the USA. Our culture is our own. We continue to evolve, in this melting pot/salad bowl culture.
That is the TOPIC.


Sheesh!!

Dee said...

Ultima said, "if you extrapolate back to the 1700, it woul not be unreasoable to conclude that our nation was,to a great extent, a white nation of European origin and that during the following years up to 1945"

Ultima,
I see you are longing for.......
Ahhh.. back to the "good ole days" -- pre civil rights movement, Jim Crow laws abounding, with good ole movies like "birth of a nation."

If you go back to pre-1900, that was pre-Irish, German, Italian days, back to Northern European -- Teddy Roosevelt days. You'd be in your TRUE Glory then.

We are evolving.. our country and our culture is evolving.. we have evolves since the Teddy Roosevelt days, since the pre civil rights days, since the jim crow days. And we should! We are, after all, the land of the Free and the Home of the Brave!

God Bless America!

Anonymous said...

Dee, THIS is me, ilbegone

I didn't say anything about English as an a national language. You confuse me with someone else.

Your guesses and commentary concerning myself are 99% wrong as well, and they are irrelevant to the discussion. Usually when there is a diversion towards the person rather than the subject, it's because the divert-er doesn't have an argument. I don't believe you're trying that ancient ploy, but that is how it appears.

The quotations and your inclusion as to your relative's race mixtures fits right in with Tancredo's statement, a European quarrel concerning north and south which is older than Columbus and is playing out in America today.

What became Anglo America with the individuality, industry, and drive of its citizens came out of the religious nature of the English civil war combined with British profit by trade.

What became Latin America was born of the last crusade, complete with the worst of Ibero – Arab culture and totalitarian Indian empire cobbled together to hold together an empire administered on the cheap and bled by treasure hunting.

What Theodore Roosevelt said about the importance and duty of assimilation and what Jose Vasconcelos said about how it seemed that as if God himself guided the steps of the Anglo Saxon cause, meshes with the conflict.

So, on to former Congressman Tancredo who stumps for a first world culture with origins in England vs. Congressman Joe Baca who pushes a third world culture with Spanish roots.

The present is merely the past unfolding.

While the Chicano movement might be officially dead, Chicanismo lives on in the schools by the race obsessed Mecha born of Corky Gonzales' “Crusade for Justice”, and what Gutierrez failed to do with the ethnic political party “La Raza Unida” is being accomplished by Chicanismo in the schools and government via the Democratic party.

Chicanismo lives on every time every time people like One Bill Gill try to pass legislation to benefit people who are here in violation of our laws, lives in the countless “Hispanic” organizations, grows every time “old skool” Chicanos like Armando Navarro babble about “Anglo oppression” to kids who should be getting an education devoid of publicly financed brown racism.

And, Chicanismo is an American born extension of Mexican mestizo ethnic nationalism.

All of the above are New World slices of the same European pie, aged for flavor over the centuries and seasoned with renewed conflict across the US / Mexican border.

By the way, you still haven't delivered on just where did the FBI specifically states that hate crimes against Latinos have risen by 40%. All I've been referred to is a single quote of an Hispanic percentage in a total number of victims, and if it involves less than 8oo incidents in a population of over 304 million, it is not a very impressive figure. That's less than 1 incident per 380,000. What are the chances of being a victim of a hate crime vs. having a pistol shoved up one of your nostrils at a Liquor store?

Regards, the anon who is ilbegone.

Dee said...

anon ilbegone said "What became Latin America was born of the last crusade, complete with the worst of Ibero – Arab culture and totalitarian Indian empire cobbled together to hold together an empire administered on the cheap and bled by treasure hunting."

Ilbegone,
What an utterly, nasty, racist thing to say. You say you have a Latin girlfriend and you can utter this garbage?!?
You might as well be a caveman growling:
Anglo = Good ug ug
Latino = Bad ug ug

Your problem is, you never bother to interpret nor understand my posts nor my comments. You are stuck in the root of your hatred and no one can sway your OPINION. Your hatred must be for self because you could not seek out a girlfriend from those you hate unless you hated yourself.

Words of Advice: "Seek first to understand then to be understood." Otherwise you will continue to be consumed in hate of all those you surround yourself with, especially your girlfriends brother.

Dee said...

And puh-lease, STOP talking about the old school chicano-ism of your childhood. You might as well be talking about Elvis and the street thugs with rolled up cigarettes in their t-shirts and pompodour hairdos. Sheesh!!

Dee said...

BTW Ilbegone,
The 40% reference was the very 1st reference of the search I asked you to do. Apparently you didn't do it.
It was in the SPLC reference:
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/
2008/10/29/anti-latino-hate-crimes-
rise-for-fourth-year/

SPLC also said (if you bothered to read it) these stats are vastly under reported because many latinos are afraid to go to the police to report them.

I also wrote this blog which provides corrollations to Hate Crimes and Hate Groups. Again, READ IT to understand in before you Comment on it. (seek 1st to understand then to be understood)

http://immigrationmexicanamerican.
blogspot.com/2008/11/immigration-
hate-crimes-against-latinos.html

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of ugly things in history, and no single person or single group is the sole owner of that ugliness. lots of co - owners and co - signers out there.

Political correctness breeds dishonesty.

I told the truth, and people who don't like the truth often resort to spurious charges of racism, and try to divert attention from brown racist agenda.

Race baiting doesn't work with me.

My recitation of history is no more racist than your baiting obsession of events in America many generations before anyone alive today had been born, perhaps much less so under the circumstances.

No one is responsible for what may or may not have happened long before their birth.

ilbegone.

Anonymous said...

The SPLC is conspicuous by the racists it dismally fails to place on it's list. Very little "diversity" there.

Basically, I believe the SPLC to be a wealth machine for Dees and his cronies, and a selective and inventive version of printed racial hatred sells far better than chronicling and otherwise addressing "poverty", the third part of the organizations name.

ilbegone

JS said...

"Why didn't you include the entire quote about Culture? It says exactly what I have been saying."

No, it didn't! You are claiming that we have never had a white european culture and the wiki-pedia article never said that! In fact it backed up what both myself and Ultima said about out basic culture. Here it is again.

"The culture held in common by most Americans—mainstream American culture—is a Western culture largely derived from the traditions of European immigrants with influences from many other sources, such as traditions brought by slaves from Africa."

The second part of that article did not nullify the first part about our basic culture it only said that immigration from Asia and Latin America had "added" to the cultural mix that is all! It still didn't change the BASICS of our culture.

Dee said...

JS,
Just STOP IT!!
Do not post quotes and then edit them to death and speak of them as the original quote! Sheesh!!

Here is the quote:
""The culture held in common by most Americans—mainstream American culture—is a Western culture largely derived from the traditions of European immigrants with influences from many other sources, such as traditions brought by slaves from Africa. More recent immigration from Asia and ESPECIALLY Latin America has added to a cultural mix that has been described as both a HOMOGENIZING MELTING POT and a heterogeneous SALAD BOWL in which immigrants and their descendants retain distinctive cultural characteristics."

http://www.xn--unitedstates-
8y5k.com/?Codx=17681

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!!!!

JS said...

Re-read both the entire wiki article and my post again! You are dead wrong but can't stand to admit it. Our basic culture is and always has been based on an anglo-saxon one that was brought from here by white Europeans. Nothing you can say can change the facts! Even wiki said so!

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