Another ICE Raid occurred on Monday. This time at Howard Industries in Laurel, MS. Nearly 600 workers were detained, far larger than the previous largest raid of Agriprocessors in Postville (400). I was curious about why! Why would ICE suddenly ramp up their RAID Activities, so close to the end of George Bush´s tenure in office? In order to find the answers, my instincts told me to "Follow the Money! Follow the Money!"
About Howard Industries:
Howard Industries, a producer of electrical power products, does big business with Government. From 2000 - 2008, Howard received $15 Million in government contracts. Of course it helps that CEO Billy Howard and his family are big time GOP Contributors. Howard Industries is similar to Agriprocessors in that they have a history of OSHA failures. This year they were cited for 54 violations of federal safety rules at the company’s two manufacturing locations in Laurel.
In Monday´s raid, nearly 600 workers were identified by ICE as being "illegal immigrants". The first question comes to mind, "How can a company hire this rate of illegal immigrants without knowing they were undocumented?" So far, Howard is claiming innocence. Witnesses are saying Howard recruited them and provided them the documentation. ICE says they are still investigating this aspect.
One recipient of PAC Monies from Howard Industries has stated for the record: State Sen. Chris McDaniel, R-Ellisville, co-authored the Mississippi Employment Protection Act said enforcement is done through state agencies - the Attorney General's office, Secretary of State's office, Department of Human Services, State Tax Commission and the Department for Employment Security. But McDaniel said the state may not have a case against the company because of when the law was passed. "Unless Howard Industries had violated the provisions of Senate Bill 2988 after its enactment date of July 1*, the state legislation would not be implicated," he said. "The possible penalties facing Howard appear to be federal in nature." McDaniel received a $2,000 donation during his 2007 Senate campaign from Howard Industries and Howard Trucking.
The Raid:
ICE´s approach humiliated all Latino workers in the plant with their Racial Profiling. Witnesses said ICE provided all White and Black workers Blue Armbands. All the Latino workers were put in line and forced to prove their legal status. ICE, in their uniforms and wearing side arms, caused ALL Latino workers to shiver in fear as they went through this ritual. The exits were sealed. Some Latino workers were sprayed with Mace.
500 workers were provided "swift-justice" and herded off to the Jena Detention Center. This is one of many centers owned and operated by the GEO Group, George Zoley is their CEO.
More about Crony CEO of Jena Detention Center:
GEO Group operates private prisons across the country, this includes many Detention Centers. In the year 2007 alone, GEO Group won contracts for a prison in Eagle Pass, Texas; an immigration detention facility in Jena, La. and a detention facility for U.S. Marshals service in Laredo, Tex. After the Jena, La., immigration detention facility reaches full occupancy with 1,160 inmates in 2008, GEO expects $23.5 million annually in revenues**. GEO, whose major shareholder is Zoley, donated $100,000 to George Bush’s reelection campaign in 2004. Texas has some of the Most Notorious Migrant Prisons GEO Group, with headquarters in Boca Raton, Fla., received a 10-year contract in January, for the detention of 2,407 “criminal aliens” at the Reeves County Detention Complex in Texas. GEO took over the county’s contract with the Federal Bureau of Prisons. GEO said it believes that the facility in Reeves County, with the county seat in Pecos, is the largest privately-operated prison in the world.
Meanwhile back in Laurel:
The families, the churches, and the local Latino community are in an uproar. With the Racial Profiling that occurred at the plant, legal Latino citizens live in fear they will be whisked away into the night to the Jena Detention Center. Howard Industries was back in business the day after the ICE raid, scurrying to backfill the swept away employees. Time will only tell the impact in the days, weeks and months ahead. As one member of the community said, "“There’s a ripple affect to all of this..This is just the beginning."
In the meantime, GOP Contributor GEO Group is raking in millions as their privately owned Detention Center is filled to capacity, right on schedule, as predicted in 2007!
References:
So in answer to my own question, WHY NOW?
1. Employer will NOT be Penalized due to Timing! *
2. Detention Centers need to be filled prior to Bush leaving Office!**
Readers, I will be following this story and the Agriprocessor story and keep you informed of what happens next!
Posts
132 comments:
In 2002, Howard Industries was given $31.5 million tax dollars to expand operations. The state required the company to create 2,000 new jobs. The Mississippi Development Authority said in 2002 that if Howard falls short of employment goals, the state would take away $3,000 for each job not created.
Immigration Raid Shuts Down Jones County's Largest Employer
By the way, your first link goes to a 404 page.
"All the Latino workers were put in line and forced to prove their legal status"
Doesn't that contradict your statement on the HB forum of:
"The ICE raid documentation said, "Those detained were from Brazil, El Salvador, Germany, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, and Peru, said Barbara Gonzalez, an ICE spokeswoman."" - LeeMac321 Posted - 08/27/2008 : 07:57:26 AM
Since when is Germany 'Latino'?
Post a link to the 'witnesses' saying Howard Ind. provided false documentation to its workers, or is this going to be the same claim you had of Agriprocessors providing all there workers with false documentation, where its been shown that 230+ where stolen identities.
I read dee's comments on Hispanic Business also, liquid. So many distortions of the truth and adding things to the news article that wasn't even there about this raid and the Postville raid, lol.
Liquid and Pat,
I read HB and responded early this morning. Since then I have read hundreds of articles including this one.
When we saw that immigration had us surrounded, it wasn't worth running," one woman, who didn't want her identity published, said through a translator. "All we could think about was what was going to happen to our children. We were worried about them."
The woman and another detainee, who also would not allow her name to be published, said one worker who tried to run was sprayed with Mace.
http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080827/NEWS01/808270386
It continues:
When the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents scrambled into the plant, they ordered workers to form two lines - one for Hispanics and one for non-Hispanics. They then separated the women from the men.
http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080827/NEWS01/808270386
It must be they separated by color, White, Black and Brown.
The German must have been Brown. I have some German ancestors I am told on my Fathers Mothers side.
Pat,
It is called research.
As I found out more, I created this comprehensive article.
Your article was also helpful Liquid. It adds to the meat of my blog.
You have still failed to provide any proof of Howard providing false documents to people. Provide proof of your statement.
No, dee. They didn't form two lines Hispanic vs non-hispanic. They asked who was a citzen and who wasn't and to form two lines that way! It was no surprise that the non-citizen line would have the most Hispanics in it. There are other stretches of the truth and outright falsehoods that you posted in Hispanic Business. I would be more than happy to copy and paste them here and point them out. What say you?
Wrong Pat!
Read the article.
READ:
When the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents scrambled into the plant, they ordered workers to form two lines - one for Hispanics and one for non-Hispanics. They then separated the women from the men.
http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080827/NEWS01/808270386
Liquid,
You can nitpick ALL YOU WANT! I said that reference came from one of the Blogs and the Owners are proclaiming INNOCENCE and ICE said they are still investigating.
600 people were identified as illegal immigrants due for deportation. 600.
Can you honestly say the employers, as they claim, DID NOT KNOW?
As I said, I have gone through hundreds of documents-references today. Your article adds to my point. The employers need to staff immediately by any means necessary with hard working qualified workers.
I will look for the blog with that reference. Even when I find it, you will say it is just a blog and will want to wait for the ICE arrest warrant.
You know as well as I do that with 600, they knew and were involved. At Agriprocessors, numerous articles stated (plus the arrest warrant stated)ICE had the documents in HR and you still dont want to believe that either!!
Again, dee it is just wishful thinking on your part that the owners were involved. You have convicted them just as you did with the Agri-Processor's owners without a trial nor a jury. If they are found guilty AFTER a COMPLETE investigation then they will be charged but as usual you can't wait for some stupid investigation to be completed or justice to run it's course. You have made up yout mind that they are guilty and want instant gratification! And your anger all stems from the fact you didn't want the illegals busted!
Howard being compared to Agriprocessors is a large difference. Howard has over 3,000 workers, while Ag only had 900.
Have any HR or Department heads been arrested at Howard?
From what I have gathered during my reading is, Howard was looking for 'cheap' workers, not that they were looking for qualified workers. Illegal Immigrants hardly qualify as qualified workers.
I never denied anything about Ag, my statements were that they found less than 100 forged cards with only 12 employees pics. This was nothing more than an HR Dept. person making money on the side. The rest have been shown to have used their own forms of stolen/forged/fake/false documents, which I have explained in that topic quite clearly, which YOU wish to deny.
It all stems from her interpretation of the facts, where she leaves out some of the most important and uses whats there to justify her theory and her statements.
So a blog entry was where you got your theory of Howard Ind. providing the false documents, that's fine, however where is their proof then?
I read an article that I am searching for again to post in here whereby it stated that the employees were FIRST asked to form two lines in this manner. One line for those claiming to be a citizen another for those not claiming that status in this country.
""All we could think about was what was going to happen to our children. We were worried about them."
They were a day late and a dollar short. If they were thinking about their children, they would have followed the law and stayed home until they could qualify for green cards. Again an attempt is being made to put the blame on those who are trying to enforce the law without much help from congress rather than on those who are the lawbreakers.
What I don't get is how a contributor to the GOP gets singled out for this raid. Seems like, if what Dee says in this regard is true, it should be the other way around. Howard should have been immune from such raids. Obviously, Dee is spinning again.
And aren't all companies with federal contracts required to use E-verification?
Assuming that there was ample reason for the raid, how would Dee have gone about separating the wheat from the chaff? I guess she would require all those others to prove their citizenship as well even though the ICE may have excused them because they spoke unbroken English. Sounds like a classic application of Pareto's rule.
"When we saw that immigration had us surrounded, it wasn't worth running," one woman said.
Well, I guess that is the usual case when one gets caught in flagrante delicto.
Pat,
These Large GOP large PAC contributors will NEVER be charged! That is clear!
The whole system is Corrupt!!
Liquid,
The court approved proof will never be brought to fruition.
You are talking about Justice in America where only corruption exists.
You will NEVER, EVER believe the eye witnesses. The workers. You want the courts, the corrupt justice system, the government who promotes these injustices to proceed. You want these groups to provide you PROOF! It will Never Happen!
BUT, I do like your url. It was helpful and supportive of this issue. Thank you Liquid.
Ulty,
HOW Am I Spinning when the RAID happened?
Ulty,
Here is what you are missing.
WE are coming to the END of the Bush Administration.
All of his vouchers are coming DUE.
All of the vouchers assigned to the Crony Owners of the Detention Centers MUST be paid off!! Therefore, the raids must be rolled out, the numbers must be arrested. The detainees must be jailed. THEN the payoff begins.
As I have reported previously, once the jail time begins, the process is very, very slow. The detainees stay in jail not only until their hearings, but then their hearings are held then they are made to wait until sufficient numbers accumulate to warrant a bus trip or a train load or a flight full to accumulate to deport them to their country of origin. This could be months. In the meantime, we as taxpayers are paying the Crony Owners of the Detention Centesr $90 a day for each member of each family incarcerated. With this last HUGE Swoop, the Jena Center is full. NOW there is no need to do anything. Those incarcerated just stay put until the slow, very slow wheels of justice turn and even then, wait until sufficient numbers have had their day in court to warrant a trip! IN the meantime, the cronys get very very rich!!
You fail to understand my point Dee. If witnesses are stating that there were some that received documents from Howard like those very few in Ag., then that should lessen the charges against only those few. However, your claim is that "ALL" of them were given documentation by there employers, as such your argument for Agriprocessors. I have no problem with witnesses making statements, I just want to know where it is you are making that statement from as I am unable to locate anything at all stating that.
And to date only 8 have been charged with using forged documentation. That doesn't mean more will not be charged, nor does it mean that it won't end up being like Ag.
As for Howard Ind. contributing to the GOP, you better do some further research, as they also contributed to numerous Democrats.
"The whole system is Corrupt!!"
It's not the system that is corrupt, it is the wording of the laws that allow loopholes for escape. Close the loopholes, you catch the criminals.
More unproven accusations by you, dee. You got something to back up your statement "that they will never be charged"? Or is it just your opinion again?
Dee is back on her conspiracy theories again. She is so desperate to excuse the illegals of any wrongdoing that she wants us to focus all our attention on only the other parties in this, whether they are guilty or not! The employers, our government, the Administration....you name it, anything but the illegal's guilt.
I'm getting immune to the cries of racism and racial profiling in every single situation involving illegals.
It wouldn't matter how ICE conducted the raids. I can assure you there isn't one, not one, that Dee wouldn't find fault with and blame on race.
Arizonian,
I love Cheech Marin and the movie Born in EastLA.
Surprised you saw it.
Rent Mi Familia. That was good too.
Also see Bordertown with JLo.
You might like them too.
Pat,
Here is what you missed. The Whys.
ICE came in now because under this administration and the local state Govt administration, Howard Ind. will not be charged. Read what
State Sen. Chris McDaniel, R-Ellisville, said. He co-authored the Mississippi Employment Protection Act. He said enforcement is done through state agencies - the Attorney General's office, Secretary of State's office, Department of Human Services, State Tax Commission and the Department for Employment Security.
McDaniel said the state may NOT have a case against the company because of WHEN the law was passed. "Unless Howard Industries had violated the provisions of Senate Bill 2988 after its enactment date of July 1*, the state legislation would not be implicated," he said. "The possible penalties facing Howard appear to be federal in nature."
McDaniel received a $2,000 donation during his 2007 Senate campaign from Howard Industries and Howard Trucking.
All of these HUGE Raids are happening as the Bush Administration is coming to a close. He is paying off all of his cronies while protecting his supporters.
1. The Detention Centers are becoming FULL!! Raking in Multi Millions from the Crony Owners!
2. The Crony Employers are NOT being charged. They are being protected by the Admnistration. ICE will NOT charge them!
3. The ANTIs LOVE these raids. They are cheering all over themselves, high fiving and back slapping each other as these raids continue. (Yet they could care less that the Employers are NOT charged!)
It is ALL very, very obvious!
Liquid,
You say the employers DID NOT know these were illegal immigrants.
Thats NOT what the Union says. Based on their statements, it is CLEAR the Employers NOT ONLY KNEW but EXPLOITED THE WORKERS!! YET they are NOT being Charged!!
"Union members said they resented immigrants, whom they said were often allowed to work as much as 40 hours of overtime a week when other workers were discouraged from doing so."
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080828/NEWS/808280377/1001
More PROVING the Company KNEW:
. Robert Shaffer, head of the Mississippi AFL-CIO, said Wednesday that members have long complained that companies in southern Mississippi hire illegal immigrants.
"Jackson, Hattiesburg, Laurel and all areas along the Coast, it's a little Mexico," Shaffer said.
In 2002, Mississippi lawmakers approved a $31.5 million, taxpayer-backed incentive plan for Howard Industries to expand. The company, with 4,000 workers, is the largest employer in Jones County, which includes Laurel.
Your comprehension is lacking, please provide my statement of what you claim!! Otherwise, re-read, re-comprehend, re-evaluate, re-scind your statement, re-write your statement.
The company KNEW the raid was coming:
On Wednesday, hundreds of people lined up outside the plant to apply for jobs as news of the raid spread. A billboard had gone up LAST WEEK, before the raid, saying the company was hiring.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92QTUBO0
Liquid,
Here is a question for you. Howard says they used eVerify. That would indicate ALL of the 600 had Valid Social Security numbers. Valid = belonging to someone.
Now, we know only 8 people were charged for using someone else´s SS# (one a dead person).
If Howard did use everify, then:
1. Why werent there more arrests?
2. If not valid, then Howard is Guilty!!
I think I know the answer.
Howard did not enroll in eVerify until recently. They KNEW a Raid was coming. They also KNEW that they could NOT be held accountable for any hirings of illegal immigrants before they enrolled in eVerify.
Therefore, they put up the Billboard last week because they knew the Raid was coming and they KNEW they would NOT be charged either by the Feds or the State.
The article also makes this statement: "A spokeswoman for ICE noted the investigation began two years ago, before Howard joined E-Verify."
Meaning ICE knew going in they were NOT going after Howard. They merely wanted to fill up the Detention Centers!!
http://www.contracostatimes.com/nationandworld/ci_10321123
Dee, why do you keep repeating that the anti's do not want the employers charged? That is just plain false as liquid and I have told you before that the anti blogs and forums that I read, they ALL say they want the employers/owners punished also if found guilty!!! You tend to repeat the same old lies over and over.
I don't care how or why the raids are being conducted, just that they are!! ICE is supposed to enforce immigration law and better late than never. I don't care about so-called ulterior motives, I only care about the enforcement of our immigration laws!
Here you go, dee. One of the biggest anti sites around. Now you read this thread and tell me that the anti's haven't said that the employers need to be punished also. Come back after you wash the egg off of your face!!
http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-129384-days0-orderasc-0.html
The ignorance in some of these comments is amazing. Do you know that it is against the law to use E-Verify for people already employed??? Only new applicants when the law took effect.
Comply with the law to check the status of a worker (hispanic, black, white, pink!) and then NOT hire them. Now you are breaking the law.
ICE should be keeping illegals out of the U.S and Howard Industries or any other business won't have to comply with all the conflicting laws.
Note that member ICEFAN said he was an eye witness and that he was working there when the raid occured (he included many pictures that he took that day). According to him the owners of the company knew that illegals were being employed there and I tend to believe him even though they have not been charged yet. All of the anti's in the forum agreed that the owners should be punished if found guilty. So much for your insinutations that the anti's don't want the employers/owners punished, dee!!
Liquid,
Here you go!
video
Quote from Video: "dozens of fraudulent alien cards were seized from the plants HUMAN RESOURCES department on tuesday. those alien cards were replaced by
hundreds of job applications."
Anon,
You are the one ignorant of the everify processes and what occurred in the HR dept at HI. Now stop your name calling and stick to the discussion if you have something relevant to add.
Pat,
Those bloggers could give a rip about sanctioning the employer. All they care about is laughing at the workers.
From you link:
lateone
ALIPAC Activist 2
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 284
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:21 am Post subject:
AAAhhhhh. This raid is the gift that keeps on giving. Gets better every time I hear more about it.
(in response to: Fabiola Pena, 21, cradled her 2-year-old daughter as she described a chaotic scene at the plant as the raid began, followed by clapping.
"I was crying the whole time. I didn't know what to do)
Those R. NUTS could care less about sanctioning employers. They are dancing in their hoola hoops cheering and calling ICE to Congratulate them:
Ex_OC
ALIPAC Hero Elite
Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 2182
Location: Idaho, USA
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject:
Gogo wrote:
CALLED they appreciated the kudos.
Thanks, Gogo! I just hope more people call, coz it is human psychology to do more when we get praised.
When I called, I said, "I am an American citizen living in Idaho, formerly of Mexifornia....oops, I mean California..."
SHE LAUGHED.
Right dee, it has been claimed that much of the corruptness occured in the HR department and one of the top dogs there was a Hispanic! Go figure!
E-verify does work if the employer follows through and doesn't hire an illegal anyway. Many of those illegal employees had been at Howard for years, so perhaps Howard Ind. wasn't using e-verify at the time they were hired. As for recent hires as I said there was much corruption going on in their HR dept. I do believe though after hearing the testimony of an employee there that the Howards (owners) knew about it also. But as always, I will let the investigations continue until they have solid proof of it, I convict no one on my own.
They could care LESS about the employer. Look what this braniac says about the raid. she lives in laurel and her husband works for HT:
stormydane
ALIPAC New Recruit!
Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 3
well thanks yall, for the welcomes. we are all gett really mad down here. it seems like alot of organizations are taking the imigrants side. they are saying that their rights are being violated. WHAT RIGHTS. they are illegal. if i rob a bank while my kids are at school and my kids have to come home to an empty house, do you think they are going to send me home to take care of my kids. HELL NO! the illegals have robbed us of jobs and money and they have said poor illegals they need to go home to their kids, the americans are so mean to them. BS! yeah send criminals home to raise kids. that makes sence....NOT. i think we need to protest. something has to be done.
Mrs Howard loves McCain:
Mrs. Howard is a maxed-out donor to John McCain. (Her husband made no Presidential donations)
Pat, At least you finally admit the Employers knew.
The video I provided indicated there were plenty of illegal documents in the HR department.
so much for the employer not knowing.
WHEN will he be sanctioned?
When will he be charged?
The Alipac crowd is so busy laughing and snorting over the crying and afraid captured illegal immigrants that they could care less about the employer.
One commenter, American Momma on Alipac said, "ICE started going door to door looking for the illegals"
This is very, very troubling!
Racial Profiling to the WORST DEGREE!!
Later she said: "I agree...they (ICE) need to hit again. I do know that they are starting to come out of hiding around town...I've seen more HISPANICS in the past 24 hours than I had seen on Tuesday. I know that ICE is saying "it's not over," but I wonder what, exactly, that means. Will they hit another employer or hit HI again or just go door-to-door or to Walmart?"
IF TRUE, these are VERY Despicable Tactics by ICE and the ACLU needs to be there ensuring continued Racial Profiling DOES NOT occur!! This is impacting ALL Latinos in the area!! Shame on them!!
Are you trying to claim that many if not most of the ALIPAC members did not chastize the employer also? I read nine pages under that topic and the majority were PO'd at the employer too!
You post a few comments in there that said nothing about the employer and you are going to deny the many other comments that did accuse the employer and condemn him also? Even you can't be that blantantly dishonest! There were 9 pages, dee!!!!!!!! How can you deny what was posted? If you continue down this denying, lying line, I will be more than glad to post them here for you to see!
Even "ICEFAN" who worked there said the owner was guilty! What is wrong with you????????????
I am admitting to nothing dee because no one knows the truth for sure but the owner himself. Don't twist my words of "I tend to believe this employee" to a conviction of the owner because unlike you, I don't do that. I let the courts decide!
Oh my God dee, you are unbelievable! It wasn't only Hispanics caught up in that raid. There were illegals from other ethnic groups also. What is ICE to do since most illegals are Hispanic and someone snitched that Howard employed illegal aliens at their plant? Were they not supposed to raid the place because many of the illegals were Hispanic and you call that racial profiling? Sometimes I wonder how I can drop to the level of trying to debate with someone like you that lacks no common sense or logic because you are so blinded by ethnocentricism. And then you lie and try to claim that many of the ALIPACERS didn't chastize the employer also when I gave you the link to that thread where they did?? Unfreaking, unbelievable!
I think the reporter got her facts screwed up. Every article compares the raid to Agriprocessors, each article states: "dozens of fraudulent alien cards were seized from the plants HUMAN RESOURCES department on Tuesday. those alien cards were replaced by
hundreds of job applications"
Here it is in print aswell: "On May 12, federal immigration officials swept into Agriprocessors, the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant, in Iowa. Nearly 400 workers were detained and dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards were seized from the plant's human resources department, according to court records. In December 2006, 1,297 were arrested at Swift meatpacking plants in Nebraska and five other states."
Feds detain nearly 600 in Miss. plant raid
Note the exact same wording. As for Agriprocessors, it states exactly what I have stated, 96 cards found, only 12 with pics in them. However it does not cover the Howard Industries deal.
Or maybe she is talking about this:
Immigrants to remain in jail
Bond denied for 8 accused of aggravated identity theft
"Assistant U. S. Attorneys, during court, said Paula Gomez, Pedro Simon-Vazquez, Fernando Hernandez-Virgen, Maria Montalvo-Guzman, Migual Bartolome-Perez, Angel Rodriguez Flores, Rigoberto Rodriguez, and Doroteo Fernandez Soto each admitted to using false identities and obtaining fraudulent federal documents. Seven of the names allegedly stolen are alive while one is deceased."
And since only 600 of 4,000 employees were detained, maybe the others have yet to be found or were not caught up in the raid.
Again, this only provides other possibilities to your theory. I tend to think as more info comes out of this situation we will have more 'proof' of possible HR managers being charged, hopefully the owners will be able to be charged. The one problem I see in all this is as I stated earlier, the wording of the laws, close the loopholes, catch the criminals.
Here you go dee!
ccat
ALIPAC Hero
Joined: May 19, 2007
Posts: 1016
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:56 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just follow the money my friend. The "political contributors" will get their "cheap labor" and not have to furnish any "benefits" because all the "benefits" for the ILLEGALS will be “socialized” from the taxpayers enforced and implemented by "our Elitist Politicians" and their "men"(see Johnny Satan) while the “profits” will be privatized by the ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS, Elitist Contributors, and their Special Interest Groups!!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!"
Another ALIPAC member:
"I'm sure the management will claim they had no idea how so many illegal invaders made it on th the payroll!! Enough with the "I didn't know defense!" One or two illegal invaders on the payroll might be explainable!
Having to shut down an entire plant because virtually every worker is illegal is a DELIBERATE ACT, meant to thwart immigration law, tax laws, and probably a host of other state laws!!
These people need to face some serious jail time! How in the world can a guy who wants to run a legitimate business compete with someone who exploits cheap, illegal invader labor!! The answer is he cannot!!
A free market/capitalist society only works if everyone is playing by the same rules! Those who disregard those rules, MUST be held accountable!
Oh...If this guy wants to remain in busines after this is all said and done, E-Verify should be made mandatory, as this company has demonstrated they cannot play by the rules when hiring labor."
Another ALIPAC member:
"Hopefully citizens everywhere are going to notify I.C.E when companies are violating the law by employing illegals.
There are over 8.8 million unemployed American workers, and that number is increasing every singly day. Just google "layoffs" and you will see notices of layoffs all across our country.
We should also send copies of our I.C.E. letters to all employers employing illegals, so that they know they have been reported to I.C.E., to allow them an opportunity to use E-Verify before I.C.E. drops the hammer on them."
Another ALIPAC member:
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Heavy Fines and Felony Jail Time for ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS!
Another ALIPAC member:
"Dontcha just love reading all the warm fuzzy info about these great American companies when they get BUSTED for hiring ILLEGALS instead of Americans"!!!
These remarks were only on the first two pages, dee. Want more? There are 7 more pages!!
A retraction of your lie would be in order now!
Pat I read them.
The vast majority, 99% are laughing and cheering about the workers being swept away. Then they went into diatribes about continued sweeps to get them all! That the Hispanics are starting to show up in town again. etc. etc.
Those folks are laughing all over themselves at the racial profiling and tortured treatment the workers are getting.
Horrible!!
More PROVING the Company KNEW:
. Robert Shaffer, head of the Mississippi AFL-CIO, said Wednesday that members have long complained that companies in southern Mississippi hire illegal immigrants.
"Jackson, Hattiesburg, Laurel and all areas along the Coast, it's a little Mexico," Shaffer said.
In 2002, Mississippi lawmakers approved a $31.5 million, taxpayer-backed incentive plan for Howard Industries to expand. The company, with 4,000 workers, is the largest employer in Jones County, which includes Laurel.
----
There is a company in De Soto, Ks called Engineered Air. It is well known by everyone in town, that they hire illegals. That has been confirmed by recent arrests at the plant. Furthermore, the city council gave them tax abatements for another expansion where they intend to hire 400 more people. I myself went to the city council and asked them not to award the abatement. I did not say because they hire illegals, because I had no proof and the arrests at the plant had not yet taken place. However another guy did and still they approved the abatement. This is documented in the council minutes.
To make matters even worse, read this from the De Soto Explorer in June of this year AFTER the arrests:
"De Soto’s Engineered Air was recognized by the state of Kansas for its contributions to De Soto and the economy at the Kansas Department of Commerce’s annual Kansas Business Appreciation Month East Regional Awards Ceremony in Topeka."
I was so mad when I read that I wanted to go down there and raise all kinds of hell.
So why all this I ask myself? The only explanation I can come up with is everybody is afraid of being accused of being racist and the company claims they use E-verify and can't be responsible for identity theft. And, of course, they bring in $$$$$
If I had any way of taking this company to task for what they do, believe me I would do it.
Liquid, I did some cross checks on ICEFAN looking for other posts he posted.
Look at this one from May, 2007 on Fire Society (another radical ANTI website):
"I'm absolutely disgusted with our so called leaders. It doesn't make a rat's ass how the majority of Americans feel about important issues like illegal aliens sapping our country dry. I'm so sick to my stomach about this that I could puke. The factory that I work at has over two thousand illegal aliens working at it. I'm not joking one bit about this. I guess the family that owns the company has a lot of friends in high places, obviously paid off friends."
He says the Employers knew from day 1 and hired them openly and blatantly.
Yes I know he is using a different login name, but it corresponds to his filename for pix he posted at alipac.
The Human Resources Department does the hiring. If they show up with documentation that appears to be authentic, they can not deny them jobs, but they must make photo copies of the documents used to obtain the work along with the I-9 forms. The company submits this information monthly, it is looked at by DOL and no-match letters are sent. How many no-match letters did Howard Ind. receive?
It is the wording of the laws that allow loopholes for escape. Close the loopholes, you catch the criminals.
Dianne,
You are right. There is a complicity between Business and local, state and federal government that the businesses will hire the cheapest, most productive labor possible, including and sometimes exclusively Illegal Immigrants. This has been going on for decades, especially over the last dozen years. That is why the numbers have accumulated to 12M+.
No one wants to admit to this nor do they want to chastise the employers. All most are saying now is cheering the ICE Raids blaming the workers as if they are 100% accountable. Clearly they would not be here if they did not have jobs. Obviously they were enticed, solicited, hired, helped by HR (obviously) with false documentation or at a minimum in HR playing dumb when they accepted false documentation.
To say otherwise is a LIE.
Now today, all of these people stand and cheer as the workers are swept to these crony owned private prisons where the crony owners will recieve multi millions of dollars as the workers are held helplessly, no communication, in horrid conditions. While the local ANTIs hoot and howl and laugh. It is disgusting!!
You know as well as I do Billy Howard and his wife, huge GOP donors, McCain donors, will go scot free!! Just Horrible!!
Liquid,
That is the problem! No one is interested in closing the loopholes, both ICE and the Local
Sen. McDaniel are already making excuses. You know Billy Howard will go scot free!!
You know dubyas pal GEO Corp will rake in MILLIONS of our Tax Payer money.
This is Shameful!!
Liquidmiro said...
The Human Resources Department does the hiring. If they show up with documentation that appears to be authentic, they can not deny them jobs, but they must make photo copies of the documents used to obtain the work along with the I-9 forms. The company submits this information monthly, it is looked at by DOL and no-match letters are sent. How many no-match letters did Howard Ind. receive?
It is the wording of the laws that allow loopholes for escape. Close the loopholes, you catch the criminals.
The problem with e-verify is that it catches numbers that are made up, however it does not catch duplicate numbers, it in fact clears them. It is then the responsibility of DOL to verify names, whether or not they do that is the key question.
The reason most people cheer that at least the "Illegals" are being caught is that it effects the business and the owner in, probably a small way. It is attempting to give back to the "Legal" worker the rights they lost when our government decided our nation needed to become a global competitor. All of this was pushed by the Chamber of Commerce and large lobbying Corporations, it all means larger profits with less expense by hiring cheap and still competing with China and India. It basically means:
John Bowe:
Globalization means that soon, we, too, might be working for pennies an hour. It’s like Adam Smith in reverse: trade with people less free than you, and your own freedom is threatened.
Yes, they are applauding the raids and the arrests of illegal aliens right along with chastizing the employers!! What is wrong with that? Why aren't you as an American glad to see Americans get their jobs back, illegals arrested and the employers held accountable? All you care about is some so-called racial profiling! The majority of these illegals arrested were Hispanics because THEY WERE AT THE PLANT WORKING illegally! Are you trying to claim that they left all other illegals alone and let them continue to work there? As I said, you are unbelievable! How can any American hold the views that you do? You only care about the feelings of law breakers and nothing for your fellow American citizens. Oh my God! I think I am going to be sick!
Liquid,
You know all this raid means is Billy Howard will move this plant to Mexico. Ive seen many comments indicating he already openly stated he planned to do this.
I believe Agriprocessors in Postville will either consolidate or move off shore as well.
It is mind boggling that people do not understand this. The corporations only care about the bottom line.
There is no need for the anger and hate directed at the migrants. They are pawns used by the bad guys in this Global Economy!
"That is the problem! No one is interested in closing the loopholes, both ICE and the Local
Sen. McDaniel are already making excuses."
Together we could solve this problem. If everyone agreed to vote only for those candidates who commit to closing the loopholes, sanctioninhg the employers and the illegals equally, mandatory E-verification including an expansion to enable identification of duplicate SSNs,etc. we would soon see change. The lobbyists have the money but we have the votes and we can win if we use our voting power.
Are you ready to commit, Dee?
I followed this guy ICEFAN (under his other name) from various blog to blog. Even in 2007 he was angry and posting he emailed ICE.
I think he works in some admin type position at HI. His issue is his anger and hate of Hispanics. Some of his comments were deplorable!! Racist and Anarchistic!
He is now dancing in the aisles and the peeps at alipac are applauding him! I hope some of his comments come out, but I am not going to post them.
To think, this was all started by this guy!
"It is mind boggling that people do not understand this. The corporations only care about the bottom line."
I think everybody understands this quite clearly. The problem is that it has been turned into a racial argument by your side, the fact that by not being also against "Illegal Immigrants" and "Illegal Immigration" your side has sided with big business. You want sympathy for the "Illegals", while Big Business wants cheap labor. It's like your argument for Big Business needs the workers or your Chamber of Commerce lawsuits that you agree with.
I think your side has mis-understood what most American Citizens want.
Ulty,
I am with you to a degree.
I am a flip flopper on the eVerify issue. I admit it.
Here is the enigma.
Lets suppose we hold Agriprocessors and Howard Industries to strictly staff with Citizens using eVerify. It is mandatory.
Can you guarantee Employers will use it and pay fair wages, ensure OSHA standards are followed and union wages are paid?
Can you guarantee we have an honest, clear, straight forward Immigration policy, no backlog and no quid pro quo in picking and choosing those we let in (with bribes)?
Can you guarantee the end to racial profiling and we never have racism in our society?
IF you can, then I will support it!
However, back to reality.
If we did enforce eVerify and make it mandatory, I believe companies like Agriprocessors and Howard Industries (HI) will go offshore. HI CEO, Billy Howard, has already voiced his interest in moving his business to Mexico.
If these companies go off shore, they will exploit workers there. This is not a solution.
If eVerify is mandatory, the companies go off shore, I suppose you and your side want this. Less people. Smaller economy. If we impose all these restrictions, build the wall, mass deport 12M, live in the military state ala Blackwater, the Fairy La La Land you ANTIs so desire, we will live in a truly desolate land with few to care for us aging Boomrs. Will the last one left in the America you envision please turn out the lights?
Do you know what troubles me most?
I dont have a solution!
I dont know the answer!
I do not believe we can Mass Deport 12M+ people.
I do not believe we will enforce a mandatory eVerify process.
I think the ICE Raids, the floundering with the southern Border Wall, the 287g programs, the Detention Centers are all stop gap measures to shut you ANTIs up!
I think Businesses will continue to exploit here domestically as long as they can get away with it. Then, they will move off shore! And, they will have full support of the Administration.
Not only are businesses exploiting "Illegals", they are having the US Taxpayer subsidize them.
Feds to end funding of ER care for migrants
So, the Federal Government, in this manner is working for Big business.
This is punishment to the taxpayer, increasing the cost of health care due to "Illegal Immigration". Who do you think gets stuck paying this bill in their monthly health care payments and costs? Its all a game, another reason why "Illegal Immigrants" must go.
What difference does it make if it had been a KKKer that reported that employer for hiring illegal aliens, dee? Afterall you claim you want these employers exposed and hiring illegal aliens is against the law and working in this country illegally is against the law! That is the bottom line of this, not someone's so-called racism! You use the lamest arguments, I swear!
You never apologized for stating that NO anti's want the employers punished, either. I won't hold my breath as you just aren't made of that kind of stuff. I hope your kids and grandkids SOMEHOW learned some honesty from someone.
So tell Pat, Tell me when the Rubashkins will be arrested. Tell me when the Howards will be arrested.
Answer: Never
They are PROTECTED by the Administration!
And Alipac and AL of their members will continue to cheer, laugh and high five each other as the employers go unpunished!! and only the workers are sent to the crony owned detention centers!
And ALL stays status quo!!
Do you want to know the worst part?
The applicants blame the workers instead of blaming the Employers.
It is just ridiculous!!
http://www.wdam.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=2844811&h1=Numbers%20double%20from%20Monday%27s%20Howard%20Industry%20Raid&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=122100&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&rnd=79491202
Check out the video on the left titled "hundreds wait in line" then YOU tell me the issue!!
Pat,
Please.
Hold your breath waiting.
The VAST majority of ANTIs are rolling in the aisles LAUGHING and back slapping each other that the "Mexicans" were caught up in the raids! Shameful!!
If they are charged, it will probably end up being like that of this article:
Doughnut exec pleads guilty in immigration case
The president of family-owned Shipley Do-Nuts pleaded guilty to a federal charge Thursday in one of the latest crackdowns on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
Lawrence W. Shipley III pleaded guilty in Houston to a misdemeanor charge of continuing to employ unauthorized workers and was placed on six months probation, officials with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said.
Shipley Do-Nuts — which includes Shipley Do-Nut Flour and Supply Co. and Shipley Properties — was expected to plead guilty next week to knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, ICE said. The company would forfeit $1.3 million and be placed on probation, ICE said.
The case is one of several brought recently against employers and managers who hire illegal immigrants. Since October 2007, ICE agents have made more then 1,000 criminal arrests — of workers and others_ connected to worksite investigations. Out of those arrests, 116 involved company owners, managers, supervisors or human resources employees.
What of the applicants, Dee?
What of the interview of the applicants?
Have you ever thought of the majority of the population in those towns?
Could it be what was stated before about the rebuilding of New Orleans?
Do most of these applicants understand the politics of what happened? Or do they only understand what effects them personally?
Shipley? You bring up Shipley? That is the exception, NOT the norm. The judge became angry at the small time owner defendants (no PAC in sight) and made them pay the price.
Do you honestly think this will happen for Rubashkin or for Howard?
I doubt it.
They will go scot free!!
Liquid,
How hypocrital!!
You speak of the applicants without moving to charge the employers is outright double-speak!
It is the employers that enticed, hired and provided false documentation to their workers from war torn, hurrican ravaged countries.
The workers would not be here if they were not hired by H.I.
Charge the Employer. Put them in prison. Then we can talk!
You call me hypocritical?? You better check yourself. I questioned what you were saying about those applying for the jobs and what they themselves were saying, for which you have no answer, I see.
Prove the employers enticed, hired and provided false documents to these workers. So far you have only your assumptions which amount to squat. The only hypocrite here is you, madam.
I showed you simply what i believed would happen to HI and Ag. CEO's, like that of Shipley Do-nuts, a slap on the wrist and a fine.
We all believe that the employers should be sent to jail, however our laws have loop holes, close the loop holes, catch the criminals. You need to better understand what it is being said before you jump the gun and accuse, pay attention, otherwise I have to dumb things down.
First the owners have to be found guilty in order to be punished. What part of that don't you understand, dee? I am not involved with either of these cases, so I can't comment on their guilt or non-guilt. Stop going over the same old crap in here over and over! No matter how much evidence WE hear that seems to prove their guilt, WE ARE NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE INVESTIGATIONS!!! You are beating this to death just because your PO'd about the illegal aliens getting busted up front. It was easy to prove their guilt!
The anti's are NOT high-fiving themselves over non-punishment of the owners!!! They are high-fiving (and this is only the initial stage of this investigation) because BOTH the employer and the illegals were caught and they can negotiate for a fair wage and those citizens out of work can now apply for those jobs. What part of that don't you understand? I would high-five also, if I were in their shoes. Stop making up more lies about WHY they are high-fiving!
As long as the law reads that employers cannot "knowingly" hire illegals, the employers have a loop hole. As long as the illegals present authentic-looking documents to the employer, the employer can assume that they are legal. That's why I think we need some kind of tamper-proof ID which would be issued to all citizens and legal residents and would be required to obtain employment. I don't understand why this would be so hard to accomplish.
See, Dee, "Alie gets it!". She understands exactly what Pat, Ultima, AZ, and I have said, why can't you?
Dee refuses to understand it because of her ethnocentric agenda.
Thanks Patriot. You were exactly right about the reason we were cheering. We might now have a chance to negotiate a fair contract, believe me when I say the Union is not at all unreasonable and have never been. (most ever negotiated that I recall was a buck fifty raise over 3 years,which ain't much)I won't even go into what has been offered. If management is guilty, then I would certainly want them prosecuted. Seriously, how in the world can you have that many illegals working and not know that they are illegal. Maybe 100-200 but 600, get real, folks. Hopefully, we'll get a fair contract negotiated and these jobs that have been vacated will go to Americans first or at the very least legal immigrants with whom I have the utmost respect as they where willing to go through the tedious process of realizing the American dream, the correct way!
That is a great idea you got there alie. An absolutely secure, impossible to counterfeit National ID Card that would be issued to all Americans and legal immigrants. If such a card could be devised it would take away the loopholes that employers are currently using. It would also make prosecuting those still trying to beat the system a no-brainer when taken to court. I can't see any negatives to this at all.
Welcome aboard, Icefan. I figured if someone is going to make accusations against others that they should get a chance to defend themselves. I see where two posts were deleted. Were they yours trying to defend yourself?
the truth is that there are plenty of unemployed african americans living right near the howard industries plant.
in the past they were excluded from jobs there
today they are getting those jobs.
Dee, you live within a reasonable drive of this plant. why don't you drive there and stand outside the gates and talk to a few of the dozens of african americans that just got jobs at this plant due to the arrest of the undocumented ?
wages are going up at that plant, and the owners are making less money than they did before this raid.
this raid results in a transfer of wealth from the white owners of the plant to the hardworking african american employees in the form of higher wages
go visit and report on the truth. no more lies, dee
Alie and Liquid,
Come on.
Even Icefan says to get real!
Of course Billy Howard knew as Rubashkin knew.
A national Tamper Proof ID? Isnt that what they say about Drivers Licenses? Come on!
eVerify does this now for SS#s. These Big Business will ALWAYS find a Loophole as long as you let them go scot free.
Icefan said:
"how in the world can you have that many illegals working and not know that they are illegal. Maybe 100-200 but 600, get real, folks."
Pat,
Look at the deleted posts. It says whoever posted them deleted their own post. (silly Pat!)
Icefan,
I am glad you came over to visit. Obviously you know that the owner knew he was hiring vast numbers of illegal immigrants. You know he is lying when he claims he didnt know. You know the employers primarily only allowed the illegal immigrants to work up to 40 hours of overtime a week. You know the HR department contained all the false documents (this has been reported in news reports).
You have said in other forums the Howard family "owns the company has a lot of friends in high places, obviously paid off friends."
Yet, they go unpunished. They say they did not know.
What I have been saying is, as long as the employers go unpunished illegal immigration will continue in this country. To date no large employer has been significantly punished, this includes Howard Industries, the Meat Packing Industry and the Construction industry.
I know you agree with all I have said. Perhaps if you said this back to the commenters here they would understand.
Icefan,
Ok. I understand your frustration at what your employers, Howard Industry did to solicit, hire and exploit all of those illegal immigrants and in doing so, harmed the union workers by depriving them of higher wages and overtime.
You must know they would not come to work there if they were not solicited and hired. They are looking for work and they found it there and were hired.
What saddens me however is what was said in the other forum when American Momma said, "I've seen more Hispanics in the past 24 hours than I had seen on Tuesday. I know that ICE is saying "it's not over," but I wonder what, exactly, that means. Will they hit another employer or hit HI again or just go door-to-door or to Walmart?"
This is RACIAL PROFILING and Clearly an attack on ALL Hispanics in your town. This is Shameful!!
There were many more derogatory comments there about Latinos and against the workers in general which included laughter and high fives, etc. That part of the conversation is just wrong!
This
Anon,
You miss the entire point.
The issue is Employer Sanctions! The Employer knew they were hiring illegal immigrants. They solicited, hired and exploited the workers. Yet, they will go unpunished. That is the issue.
Icefan,
You mentioned in the other forum that Billy Howard had previous plans to move his plant to Mexico.
Let me ask you two topics I want to ask you about:
1. How is the plant today. Are they having trouble restaffing? What is the mood of management?
2. What happens if Billy moves the plant to Mexico. What if he says he cannot afford to staff up and keep his plant in Laurel. What was Laurel like before the Plant staffed up? and what will Laurel be like if the plant leaves?
dee,
go visit the plant.
plenty of african american workers now have jobs that they did not have before.
this is proof that when illegals are kicked out of town, poor african americans get more jobs
hmmm - now what would happen if howard was repeated on a national scale- all 12 million illegals booted out of the country.
by analogy we can assume that more poor african americans would get jobs
the math is simple - what worked beautifully and perfectly in Mississippi will work on a national scale
Anon,
You do not live in the area.
I agree there are increased jobs available due to the raid and some locals will be hired.
We will have to wait and see what happens. I will be monitoring the situation very, very closely and posting updates on my blogs.
In Postville, they are only operating at about 50% of capacity and their raid happened in May, over 3 months ago. Word is, the town is going out of business and the plant will be closing and relocating soon.
I venture the same will occur at H.I. Icefan can tell us. I would guess they are operating at less than 50% while they are trying to staff up. There are not going to be sufficient trained-skilled qualified workers in the area to fill the need. Ice is raiding the Poultry plants and even hitting the local Walmart and Racial Profiling the neighborhoods. The schools are down 10% for now and I venture to say will go down 30 to 40% by next month. Icefan says Billy Howard has already talked about leaving Laurel. How long before he does? And the town, area goes out of business too.
The people who wrote in to ICE are getting what they requested. No illegal immigrants in the area. No more workers in the plants. What is happening is just what has been asked.
Actually I do agree Anon. What happens in Postville and in Laurel, if the 12M are Mass Deported, will be the same across the nation.
What happened in Laurel is - more jobs for black citizens.
What happened in Phoenix is - more jobs for black citizens.
Dee, reach out to the blacks who are involved in trying to find jobs for unemployed young black men.
These ICE raids are a godsend - a true miracle of biblical proportions. Consider getting off the computer and reaching out - you will be surprised about what you hear.
The exit of the 12 million illegals is coming. thank god for that
Anon,
You reveal yourself as you attempt to cloak yourself in your anonymity.
You spell God with a small "g". Curious.
You speak of job for African Americans in AZ even though the census tells us African American job seekers in AZ are few.
Why do you even bring in Blacks into the equation. You are NOT an Obama supporter.
I suspect you are the opposite.
You are a White Nationalist.
You are very revealing anonymous.
Very revealing into your own agenda.
Although you choose to hide, like a little child, behind your screen name - anonymous!
AZ,
I think Anon is old enough to defend himself.
True he always has a very weak, weak argument! However, he does not need help!
Dee,
I've never said that he had plans to move the plant ever, although I have ran across this before. I think he preferred the way it was before Monday. He moved Mexico here.
To answer your first question about restaffing there shouldn't be any, there have been well over a thousand locals seeking jobs since the operation and more will surely be applying. Training may take a while, but rest assured there is a large core of dedicated workers and supervisors that have stepped up to the bat to get through very unfortunate incident that never would have occurred had our laws been taken seriously. The mood of management varies greatly, but on the plant floor there is now a palpable electricity in the air from what I've been told. I sense it as well. Moods are elevated. People are working harder and taking more pride in their work. They feel vindicated that a wrong has been righted. There is no doubt that an overwhelmingly majority feel this way, even though, those that were apprehended are some of the finest people in the world. Maybe they can come back one day, but only as legal immigrants.
If the plant moves to Mexico, I guess being resilient Americans we will find gainful employment elsewhere . I am quite sure of that. He can definitely afford to re-staff the plant, there's no way that could be a problem. He'll have a bit of a sticky if he relocates considering all the state and federal funding he has received. Laurel will remain a tight-knit community no matter what happens, in fact the plant being moved would only bring us closer together and teach all of us a very important lesson about corporate America.
Dee,
Jamiel Shaw's family also is rallying the african american community against you. They have been leading protests every week in South Central LA against your policies.
If you spend a little time with the african american media you will see that Jamiel's family is building up support. The community is slowly building up its strength.
plenty of people understand that the immigration of mexicans has dramatically increased unemployment among blacks. this is not a new concept.
actually, prominent latinos have admitted as such on the web.
Dee is one of the few who sort of have their head in the sand
"Howard should have been immune from such raids. Obviously, Dee is spinning again.
Perhaps I misunderstood Dee's point but she seemed to be saying that Howard was given some special treatment. If that were true, there would have been no raid. I am not denying the fact of the raid, jut trying to understand the spin Dee has given it.
Anon,
You continue to go off the topic of discussion. We are talking about the Laurel ICE Raid. Please stick to topic.
Ulty,
What is clear is Billy Howard knowingly hired hundreds-thousands of illegal immigrants. Of course he knew. His staff knew he knew. The workers knew he knew. The union knew he knew (why else could only the illegal immigrants work overtime). Same goes for Agriprocessors and the Rubashkins.
If you ANTIs would take off your politically correct masks you would say so.
The facts are the employers knowingly solicited, hired and exploited these workers. For you to say otherwise is an outright LIE and you are a bunch of Hypocrites for even attempting to use this as your line of defense!!
Many of these workers worked in the plant 5+ years. Even Icefan says they were "those that were apprehended are some of the finest people in the world." (He says they were the finest as he anonymously typed his hatemails to ICE.)
The workers were DUPED by their employer. YET the Employer goes Scot Free. If anyone should be imprisoned it should be Billy Howard! For this flagrant abuse of power and disregard for the Law.
But no. You are so worried about offending this Bush crony. The laws were put in place to PROTECT the REAL criminals from Prosecution.
This is out and out "Manifest Destiny" all over again!!
Shame on you for being SO AFRAID to Admit the Truth!!
Icefan,
You are right in one regard. It wasnt you who said it. It was your coworker Stormydane. Here is what he wrote.
stormydane
ALIPAC New Recruit!
Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 3
Posted: Thu Aug 28,2008 2:24 pm
OH YEAH.... I ALMOST FORGOT. did yall know that billy howard was think of moving his company to mexico here a while back. i know that first hand. we talk to billy jr. all the time.
Ulty,
Nope. You are not getting it. They are conducting the raids now for three reasons:
1. To appease the ANTI hate mongers
2. To protect the crony employers while their laws are still in place before the Dems get into power.
3. To fill up their Crony Owned Detention Centers so they complete their payback before the dems get into power.
(read the blog. its all there)
Ultima said:"By Dee´s logic Howard should have been immune from such raids.
Icefan,
Lots of nice words in your last post however you forget Ive read your posts at Alipac and at Fire Society under your Bxkxr id. (I wont give away your other screen name, dont worry.)
Your cheering, wooping, your "rubbing it in enough" to the workers being swept away to the deplorable private prisons. Saying one of the workers was "clothesined" by the ICE troopers. You said it was "exciting" that you have been secretely sending in
emails and faxes to ICE for several years. You admitted "ratting out two who were hiding." Your saying the Personal Director will be the patsy. Calling Howard employers a "bunch of damn liars" because they were in on it. Your saying it was "better than Christmas." Saying Bill Chandler could "kiss your ass."
you say you are "glad to have your town back", rid of all the Latinos.
Then the clincher from BB, "it is obvious. The employees working in HR are corrupt and aiding & abetting. I'm willing to bet my last $ that those HR employees are illegal themselves, or if legal, are taking bribes."
Icefan,
One last question.
You wrote all those letters to ICE.
You know Billy Howard and the employers knowingly solicited, hired and exploited those workers, many originating from war torn, hurricane ravaged countries.
You say they were some of the "finest people in the world."
How does it feel to know you sent them to heinous, crony owned private prisons, in shackles. Many have no access to phones or contact with their families and no attorney priveleges. How does it feel to know your emails may have resulted in their incarceration to these heinous places. (and you KNOW the ROOT CAUSER is Billy Howard who will get off scot free!)
Icefan said:
"those that were apprehended are some of the finest people in the world."
I just found a new article which details one of the primary reasons for the raid. I will be publishing a new blog about it in about an hour.
If I remember correctly dee, ICEFAN told me he wasn't the one who reported this incident to ICE. So get your facts straight before you accuse someone.
If I had been in the shoes of the one who did report it though, I would have done the same thing! I would want the employer caught and the illegals gone. I am sure there were some "nice" illegals working there but so what! Niceness has no bearing on breaking our laws. I am sure there are a lot of "nice" citizens who break the speed limit also but that is no reason for them to not get a ticket.
By the way, how is anon going off topic? There are a lot of blacks in Mississipi out of work so this incident is very relative to their unemployment.
Wrong Pat.
He said he DID report it to ICE several times over the last couple of years, however he did not say in his communications to ICE that he was a Union Member.
Go BACK and READ his comments please!!
Pat, Again you are wrong. READ my latest blog. The African American Union leader said this was all a Plot by the Administration and the Employers to break the union and to divide the various ethnic groups!
READ THE TRUTH!
All posted in my latest blog I posted Today!!
Dee, what you don't get is even if there were an ulterior motive in these raids, ICE still has the responsibility to the American citizens to perform them! Nothing else matters! Illegal immigration and working here illegally is against the law! Both the employers who have knowingly hired illegals and the illegals themselves have broken our laws. That is all that needs to be said about this! Both parties should be punished! But it is out of our hands and we have to let justice run its course. God what is wrong with you?
Pat,
Out of your hands, Riiiigghhht! YOU just dont get it. It is only OUT OF YOUR HANDS because the ANTIs could care LESS about the employers. Not even ICEfan is saying "Arrest Billy Howard."
I have said our Immigration policies are BROKEN. The Employers solicit hire employ and exploit the workers. They do it because they can. They know you and your kind will just let them go free, rubbing your little hands together and saying "the loopholes! the loopholes!"
So, Dee is basically saying, if the employers aren't punished then neither should the "Illegal Workers" be punished.
Kumbya, everybody, there is her 'status quo' argument. However, the "Illegals" have no right to be here, therefor, BYE, BYE. Now the employers will be forced to hire citizens and/or LEGAL workers, who, if they choose, can form and/or join UNIONS. Now no more depressed wages. Change the laws in regards to hiring workers, tamper proof ID, E-Verify (fix issue with SS# match to person name), and walla, problems go away.
The problem with Corporations and Incorporations is, who is the employer? Who knowingly hired these "Illegal Immigrants"?? Most, if not all, Corp. and Incorp. are ublicly traded organizations, there is no owner, only a CEO and so forth down. So I ask again, who knowingly hired the "Illegal Immigrant"? how can you hold the 'owner' when there is not one, liable?
Look to the Corporate Laws:
the five defining characteristics of the modern corporation are:
* separate legal personality of the corporation (the right to sue and be sued in its own name)
* limited liability of the shareholders (so that when the company is insolvent, they only owe the money that they subscribed for in shares)
* transferrable shares (usually on a listed exchange, such as the London Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange or Euronext in Paris)
* delegated management, in other words, control of the company placed in the hands of a board of directors
* investor ownership, which Hansmann and Kraakman take to mean, ownership by shareholders.
The defining feature of a corporation is its legal independence from the people who create it. If a corporation fails, shareholders will lose their money, and employees will lose their jobs, but neither will be liable for debts that remain owing to the corporation's creditors. This rule is called limited liability, and it is why corporations end with "Ltd." (or some variant like "Inc." and "plc"). In the words of British judge, Walton J, a company is...
"...only a juristic figment of the imagination, lacking both a body to be kicked and a soul to be damned."
But despite this, corporations are recognised by the law to have rights and responsibilities like actual people. Corporations can exercise human rights against real individuals and the state, and they may be responsible for human rights violations. Just as they are "born" into existence through its members obtaining a certificate of incorporation, they can "die" when they lose money into insolvency. Corporations can even be convicted of criminal offences, such as fraud and manslaughter.
Again you continue to lie and deny, dee. I already posted the remarks from many anti's who want the employers who have knowingly hired illegal aliens to be punished.
"We let the employers go free"? "WE" aren't law enforcement nor the judges in these incidents. It IS out of our hands and as I stated in my last post, I have given you many examples where the anti's have stated they want the employer punished. When are you going to start being honest, dee? When will we have honesty in this blog? When will you develop a conscience and start telling the truth?
You only have a half dozen people posting in your blog, why don't you start treating us with respect by stop making up things that aren't true about us and what we have said? When, dee when?
I have just about had it! I don't want to post in a blog where the blog owner doesn't debate with honesty. It is shameful!
Liquid,
Keep rubbing your little hands together and saying "the loopholes, the loopholes!" (my precious)
LOL
PUT the Rubashkins and Howard in Prison!!! They KNEW what was going on!! Dont be in denial!!
This discussion was carried over in the other topic.
Yeah, liquid! I command you to immediately arrest the Rubashkins and the Howards. Get out that little play sheriff's badge that you have kept since your were four and get on it right away! I will be following up on this and expect immediate action from you or I will take away your magic decoder ring and your play badge forever!
I think Liquid could do it.
Remember his pix.
If illegals were not here in masses, enforcement would not be necessary!!
When is LaRaza, LULAC and the ACLU going to represent legal immigrants and help illegals start their businesses in their home country?
Our country can only absorb so many, for the American Dream to remain possible.
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