Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Many Oklahomans Having 2nd Thoughts about HB1804!!

As businesses continue to go out of business, Latinos tired of Racial Profiling leave the state and as the Economy worsens, many are voicing their concerns about the restrictionist laws and the pandering politicians pushing them.
Tulsa World reports: (summary)
House Bill 1804 is among the most onerous anti-immigration laws in the country. Its principal author, Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore, will certainly run on his dubious accomplishment of throwing suspicion on every Hispanic — legal and illegal — in the state. The illegals have, of course, broken the law. But a porous border and a lack of a legitimate and enforceable federal immigration law over decades has caused the problem. Add to that the temptation of jobs for a huge segment of Hispanic poor and the willingness of companies to employ them, often without benefits and with low pay, and what results is the mess we find ourselves in now. Into that disastrous mix step politicians such as Terrill, willing to make political hay on the backs of not merely illegal Hispanics but all Hispanics. Inflammatory rhetoric and bad law have cast a shadow over every Hispanic in the state, many of whom are citizens of the United States and many even second- and third-generation Americans. Terrill is not alone in this debacle. HB 1804 was passed by an overwhelming majority of the Legislature and signed by Gov. Brad Henry. Only a handful of leaders, such as Sen. Harry Coates, R-Seminole, have recognized the folly of 1804 and have attempted to rectify the mistake. And you can bet that Terrill and too many like him will exploit the issue, an issue they helped create. Never mind that Oklahoma is last or near last in every important category from education to health care. Illegal immigration is a hot-button issue that sounds like an easy fix. But it is not an easy fix. Laws such as 1804 only make matters worse. Illegal immigration always has been the purview of the federal government. That is where the problem must be solved. If you want some progress made on the subject, then press your candidates for the U.S. House and Senate. When you do, however, keep in mind that we are talking about human beings. People who are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. People who are enticed here by jobs. People who are able to get here because of poor federal law. A fair and honest debate needs to take place concerning illegal immigration. As the economy worsens the problem will only deepen. It might be naive to expect, but this political season let's force politicians who are running for state offices to deal with the issues that are sinking this state. Let's not allow politicians to exploit fear and divert our attention from the important issues. That, sadly, isn't likely to happen. So, in the meantime, buckle your seat belts and get ready for some divisive and mean-spirited campaigns from politicians intent on beating up on and getting elected on the backs of a defenseless minority.


patriot said...

What the heck does it mean "casting a shadow on Hispanic citizens"? They are in no danger of being deported. More exaggerations as usual to garner sympathy for their illegal counterparts.

Glad to see the raids are working and the illegals are moving on. We are not going to pay for our government's lack of enforcement and border security any more!

Liquidmicro said...

I read the article, I read "Only a handful of leaders", not, 'many', and since a hand only has 5 fingers on it, that's not many considering there are how many Representatives in the House in Oklahoma?

patriot said...

Liquid, that is why I always read the articles in their entirety that dee posts in here. There are always descrepancies between her version of it and what was really written. I have learned!

Dee said...

Actually Liquid, Stay in Denial if you wish. The facts are, as the author states, this bill has had a negative impact on Oklahoma and there will be changes addressed in the November election.

Liquidmicro said...

Please show some negative impacts on Oklahoma from this bill. In fact, pull up your old post of Oklahoma, read the comments I posted there and try to refute them. Until then, come up with something worthy.

patriot said...

This isn't about Oklahoma but the circumstances are similar. I found it on one of dee's favorite anti forums.

"LOL! So much for the idea that our communities will "fall apart" if the illegals return home!

Prince William County (Manassas, VA) passed some pretty strict anti-illegal ordinances about six months ago amidst a lot of controversy and bullying by the OBL. They warned that the county would experience financial ruin, etc.

Well, turns out that the real estate market in PWC has exploded in the six months since those ordinances passed. People in the surrounding areas (which have since been inundated by fleeing illegals) have been moving into PWC drawn by the reasonable housing prices and return to sanity provided by the anti-illegal ordinances.

So much for the dire warnings by the OBL!"

The Arizonian said...

Has anyone read this article and know what HB1804 actually does? I noticed that in the "article" there seems to be no mention what the bill is intended to do, just alot talk of it's "consequences".

Dee said...

Arizonian, Yes. We have discussed this bill in extreme detail. I have posted several blogs-articles on HB1804, who were the sponsors, what it does and doesnt do, how all brown people, legal, native americans are being racial profiled, businesses going out of business, etc.
Liquid and I have gone head to head. (he thinks he is winning. good thing we like each other!)
However, the bottom line is, businesses and latinos are leaving! Revenue in the state is suffering. However this is not stopping the bill´s sponsor (Terrill). He is pushing addendums to the bill. That is one reason many politicians (and chambers) are taking offense and starting to fight back.

patriot said...

No, there is no racial profiling, just criminal and probablity profiling. It is the way our laws work in the investigative process of crimes.

Boosting our economy or businesses surviving thru illegal labor is not admirable nor desirable nor what this country stands for. If we allow this we have lost the morality that this country is supposed to stand for. Anyone arguing money over morality shows exactly what they are made of!

The Arizonian said...

Ok, thanks for not telling me what this bill is designed to do through what methods.........

Dee said...

Arizonian, Just for you! wiki had a good summary. My biggest objection is the Racial Profiling occuring (even just for giving someone a ride in your car), particularly in Tulsa! The home of the Arpaio like sweeps in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma House Bill 1804, also known as the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act 2007, is a strict anti-immigration law introduced by state Rep. Randy Terrill (R), chairman of the Revenue and Taxation Committee. The law makes it a felony even to give a person a ride if they know or have grounds to suspect them of being an illegal immigrant. It also forbids the state from providing education, healthcare and many other services to undocumented immigrants, including infants, and requires police to check the immigration status of anyone “suspected” of being in this country illegally.[1]

The bill passed the Oklahoma House, 88-9, with 35 of the 44 Democrats joining the Republicans. It then passed the Oklahoma Senate on a 41-6 vote with two-thirds of the Democrats lining up with Republicans.

Among its provisions are the following:

The State of Oklahoma finds that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this state and that illegal immigration is encouraged by public agencies within this state that provide public benefits without verifying immigration status. [...] Therefore, the people of the State of Oklahoma declare that it is a compelling public interest of this state to discourage illegal immigration [...]. A. It shall be unlawful for any person to transport, move, or attempt to transport within the United States any alien knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the alien has come to, entered, or remained in the United States in violation of law, in furtherance of the illegal presence of the alien in the United States. B. It shall be unlawful for any person to conceal, harbor, or shelter from detection any alien in any place, including any building or means of transportation [...]. C. Any person violating the provisions of subsections A or B of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony [...].

SECTION 7. [...] A. Every public employer shall register and participate in the Basic Pilot Program to verify the work authorization status of all new employees. B. 1. No public employer shall enter into a contract for the physical performance of services within this state unless the contractor registers and participates in the Basic Pilot Program to verify the work authorization status of all new employees.

SECTION 8. [...] A. Except as provided in subsection C of this section or where exempted by federal law, every agency or a political subdivision of this state shall verify the lawful presence in the United States of any natural person fourteen (14) years of age or older who has applied for state or local public benefits [...]. C. Verification of lawful presence under the provisions of this section shall not be required: 2. For assistance for health care items and services that are necessary for the treatment of an emergency medical condition, as defined in 42 U.S.C. Section 1396b(v)(3), of the alien involved and are not related to an organ transplant procedure; D. Verification of lawful presence in the United States by the agency or political subdivision required to make such verification shall require that the applicant execute an affidavit under penalty of perjury that: 1. He or she is a United States citizen; or 2. He or she is a qualified alien under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, and is lawfully present in the United States.

SECTION 10. [...] A. The Attorney General is authorized and directed to negotiate the terms of a Memorandum of Understanding between the State of Oklahoma and the United States Department of Justice or the United States Department of Homeland Security concerning the enforcement of federal immigration and custom laws, detention and removals, and investigations in the State of Oklahoma.

SECTION 11. This act shall become effective November 1, 2007.

The Arizonian said...

B. The provisions of this section shall be enforced without regard to race, religion, gender, ethnicity, or national origin.

Doesn't this basically say the opposite of "racial profiling"?

After perusing the law as released by the Oklahoma State Legislator, I haven't seen anything that suggest profiling.

Are you saying that the government is allowing employers to decide what they might suspect are "unauthorized immigrants"? No,wait, the law says that employers have to check everyone........

LMJ said...

B. The provisions of this section shall be enforced without regard to race, religion, gender, ethnicity, or national origin.

Doesn't this basically say the opposite of "racial profiling"?"

Do you actually believe what the gov puts into writing that racial profiling doesn't happen anyway? So by that same regard, "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL..." meant that the slaves were freed. Oh wait, that didn't happen for another 100 years and were segregated another 100 years. And I guess women are just S-O-L since "ALL MEN" are the only one's mentioned.

This law is a joke and I hope every red-neck in Oklahoma gets what they have coming to them

Dee said...

Arizonian, It is the portion of the law below that resulted in massive racial profiling particularly in the Tulsa area (home of the MM supporters that pushed this heinous law.)

The overzealous kkkops stopped every car with brown people in it asking for ID, SS#, Passport. The person transporting was also liable. And drivers were ticketed even for minor offenses (eg. light over rear plate out).

The HB1804 impact was, if a mom gave another student a ride and their parents brought the child in undocumented at one year old, that mom driver was arrested and put in jail. Thats what the law did. Or if the church bus picked up families for church, if they were undocumented, the church was liable.

The racial profiling occurred when the overzealous cops stopped every car with brown passengers. The Tulsa newspapers were loaded with comments by Native Americans that were stopped.. and angry!!

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to transport, move, or attempt to transport within the United States any alien knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the alien has come to, entered, or remained in the United States in violation of law,

patriot said...

The key here is dee, is that you have to be convicted of "knowingly" abetting an illegal alien as in providing transportation for them. That is a hard one to prove anyway.

Give me one good reason why we should provide education, healthcare (unless it is an emergency) or any other taxpayer funded benefits to illegal aliens.

So what if someone is asked to prove their status if they are "suspected" of being an illegal alien? We have been over this before. All one has to do is to provide valid, legal I.D. just like we have to do to board an airplane and many other instances where I.D. is required. So what if one's skin is brown when questioned? What the hell difference does that make? Are they going to be traumatized over it? After reading the bill, I see nothing unusual or unfair about it. It just helps enforce our immigration laws and that is your real objection. You foget that we know you in here, dee.

The Arizonian said...

LMJ said...
"Do you actually believe what the gov puts into writing that racial profiling doesn't happen anyway?"

Then file a court action against them, if they are indeed violating the law. Just find one of these "activist judges" the (neo)conservatives were complaining about in recent years.

Profiling does happen, and it is illegal.
Just the same as speeding, theft, rape, murder, ect.......

Dee said...

Giving someone a ride (eg. carpool mom giving other students a ride) is considered aiding and abedding. Now mothers are expected to be immigration cops? I dont think so, but that IS the law in Oklahoma! Many people do not like it, especially considering the cops in Tulsa stopping everyone with brown people in the car and checking for immigration status! I call that Racial Profiling!

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