It is just amazing! The reason ICE performed the raids was because the illegal immigrants were starting to join the Union. This is what happened at Agriprocessors too! When the heinous employers saw the end to their exploitation, they called in their cronies at ICE to bring in the Raids!
The primary REASON for the Raid in Laurel was to teach the workers who attempted to join a Union, "IF you try to join a Union, WE are so connected to the Administration then we will shackle you and send you to a Crony Owned Detention Center!"
The Employers can now say (as the W Administration so often says) "Mission Accomplished!"The racist Union Members cheer as the attempted Latino union members were marched out in shackles, unaware that they were in sync, lock step, to management plans, making this a racist issue vs a union issue.
What is most amazing is the so called Union Supporters now feel vindicated. They believe by removing these hard working Latino workers who were attempting to stop management exploitation and attempting to join the union that their Mission is Accomplished.
How little they know! The workers were NOT their enemy! Their enemies were the exploitive employers who will continue to exploit! Perhaps move out of state! And squelch Union activity every chance they get! The Employers and their Administrative Buddies!!
newamericamedia reports:
LAUREL, Miss. -- On August 25, immigration agents swooped down on Howard Industries, a Mississippi electrical equipment factory, taking 481 workers to a privately-run detention center in Jena, Louisiana. Some 106 were also arrested at the plant, and released wearing electronic monitoring devices on their ankles, if they had children, or without them, if they were pregnant. Eight workers were taken to Federal court in Hattiesburg, where they were charged with aggravated identity theft. Afterwards Barbara Gonzalez, spokesperson for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), stated the raid took place because of a tip by a "union member" two years before. Other media accounts focused on an incident in which plant workers allegedly cheered as their coworkers were led away by ICE agents.
The articles claim the plant was torn by tension between immigrant and non-immigrant workers, and that unions in Mississippi are hostile to immigrants. Many Mississippi activists and workers, however, charge the raid had a political agenda - undermining a growing political coalition that threatens the state's conservative Republican establishment. They also say the raid, which took place during union contract negotiations, will help the company resist demands for better wages and conditions.
Jim Evans, a national AFL-CIO staff member in Mississippi and a leading member of the state legislature's Black Caucus, said he believed "this raid is an effort to drive immigrants out of Mississippi. It is also an attempt to drive a wedge between immigrants, African Americans, white people and unions - all those who want political change here." Patricia Ice, attorney for the Mississippi Immigrant Rights Alliance (MIRA), agreed that "this is political. They want a mass exodus of immigrants out of the state, the kind we've seen in Arizona and Oklahoma. The political establishment here is threatened by Mississippi's changing demographics, and what the electorate might look like in 20 years."In the last two decades, the percentage of African Americans in the state's population has increased to over 35%, and immigrants, who were statistically insignificant until recently, are expected to reach 10% in the next decade. Mississippi union membership has been among the nation's lowest, but since the early 1980s, workers have joined unions in catfish and poultry plants, casinos and shipyards, along with those at Howard Industries. Evans, other members of the Black Caucus, many of the state's labor organizations, and immigrant communities all see shifting demographic as the basis for changing the state's politics. Over the last seven years their growing coalition has proposed legislation to set up a Department of Labor (Mississippi is the only state without one), guarantee access to education for children of all races and nationalities, and provide drivers' licenses to immigrants. MIRA organized support in the state capitol for those proposals and Evans, who sponsored many of them, chairs the MIRA's board. Earlier this year, however, the legislature passed, and Governor Haley Barbour signed, a law making it a state felony for an undocumented worker to hold a job, punishable by 1-5 years in prison and $1,000-10,000 in fines. Employers are given immunity for employing workers without papers, so long as they vet new hires through an ICE database called E-Verify. It is still not known whether the people arrested at Howard Industries will be charged under the new state law. Evans says the law and the raid serve the same objectives. "They both just make it easier to exploit workers. The people who profit from Mississippi's low wage system want to keep it the way it is," he alleged.
In the week before the raid, MIRA organizers received reports of a growing number of ICE agents in southern Mississippi. They began leafleting immigrant communities, warning them about a possible raid and explaining their rights should people be questioned about their immigration status. When agents finally showed up at the Howard Industries plant, many workers say they tried to invoke those rights, and warn others that a raid was in progress. One woman, later detained and then released to care for her child, began to call workers who had not yet come to the factory on her cell phone, warning them to stay away. "She first called her brother, and then began calling anyone else she could think of," explained her mother, who works in a local chicken plant. Both feared being identified publicly. "An agent grabbed her arm, and asked her what she was doing, so she went into the bathroom, and kept calling people until they took her phone away."
Howard Industries, like most Mississippi employers, has a long record of opposing unions. Workers there chose representation by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers on June 8, 2000, by a vote of 162-108. Employment at the plant, which manufactures electrical ballasts and transformers, grew considerably after the election, and the company now employs over 4000 workers at several locations in Mississippi. In 2002 it received a $31.5 million subsidy for expansion from the state government, and at one point state legislators were all given HI laptop computers. "The company is very well-connected politically," says Evans, who noted that its owners donated to the campaigns of former Democratic governor Ronnie Musgrove, and then to Mississippi's current Republican governor Haley Barbour.
As it grew the company hired many immigrant Mexican and Central American workers, diversifying a workforce that was originally primarily African American and white. The company has declined to comment, and released a press statement that said, "Howard Industries runs every check allowed to ascertain the immigration status of all applicants for jobs. It is company policy that it hires only U.S. citizens and legal immigrants." (We really believe this!) During the organizing drive the union filed charges with the National Labor Relations Board, alleging intimidation and violations of workers' rights. After the union and company agreed on a contract, more charges followed. NLRB Region 15 issued a complaint against the company for violating the union's bargaining rights. Roger Doolittle, attorney for IBEW Local 1317, says other charges allege that the company threatened a union steward for trying to represent workers in the plant. In June the Occupational Safety and Health Administration announced it intended to fine the company $123,000 for 36 violations of health and safety regulations at the Pendorf plant, where the raid took place, and another $41,000 in fines for a second Laurel location.Tension between the company and union increased after the collective bargaining agreement expired at the beginning of August. According to one immigrant worker, who was not detained because he worked on swing shift and did not want to be identified, the union was asking for a wage increase of $1.50/hour and better vacation benefits. Company medical benefits are also an issue among workers, he said, because family coverage costs over $100/week, putting it out of reach for most employees. Mississippi is a right-to-work state, and labor contracts cannot require that workers belong to the union. Instead, unions must continually try to sign workers up as members. In past years, according to other union sources, IBEW Local 1317 had a reputation as a union that did not offer much support to its immigrant members. According to the swing shift worker, who did not belong to the union, there were just a few hundred members at the Pendorf plant, and in negotiations the company used that low membership as a reason not to sign a new agreement. To increase its ability to negotiate a contract, Local 1317 began making greater efforts to sign up immigrant members. Spanish-speaking organizers were brought in, and they handed out leaflets in Spanish explaining the benefits of membership. They visited workers at home so they could talk about the union without being overheard or seen by company supervisors. According to the swing shift worker, many began to join, especially the immigrants who'd been hired most recently. IBEW's national newspaper, Electrical Worker, reported that over 200 had signed up last April, according to Local 1317's African-American business manager Clarence Larkin. "It's a constant process to keep the union alive and growing," he told the paper. That's when the plant was raided. Local 1317 will now have to try to negotiate a contract after the loss of many of its members, who were among those detained. Those members, who joined the union in hopes of better wages and treatment, instead have been imprisoned for days in Jena, Louisiana, a two-hour drive from Laurel. ICE spokesperson Barbara Gonzalez would not provide an estimate of how long they might be jailed, but said "the investigation of their cases is ongoing."The day after ICE agents stormed the factory MIRA began organizing meetings to provide legal advice, food and economic help. According to MIRA director Bill Chandler, Howard Industry representatives told detainees' families, and women released to care for children, that the company wouldn't give them their paychecks. On August 28 MIRA organizer Vicky Cintra led a group of workers to the Pendorf plant to demand their pay. Managers called Laurel police and sheriffs, who threatened to arrest her. After workers began chanting, "Let her go!" and news reporters appeared on the scene, the company finally agreed to distribute checks to about 70 people.The swing shift worker was so frightened by the raid that he hadn't gone back to work after almost a week, and wasn't sure he'd have a job waiting if he did. "Everyone is still really scared," he said. The Hattiesburg American reported Friday that Howard Industries sent a letter to customers two days after the raid, assuring them that production would be back to normal by the end of the week, and noting that the company has not been charged. Spokesperson Barbara Gonzalez claimed ICE waited two years after receiving a call from a "union member" before conducting the raid, because "we took the time needed for our investigation." She declined to say how that investigation was conducted, or what led ICE to believe their tip had come from a union member. The picture of a plant in which union members were hostile to immigrants was reinforced after the raid by media accounts of an incident in which workers "applauded" as their coworkers were taken away.
LAUREL, Miss. -- On August 25, immigration agents swooped down on Howard Industries, a Mississippi electrical equipment factory, taking 481 workers to a privately-run detention center in Jena, Louisiana. Some 106 were also arrested at the plant, and released wearing electronic monitoring devices on their ankles, if they had children, or without them, if they were pregnant. Eight workers were taken to Federal court in Hattiesburg, where they were charged with aggravated identity theft. Afterwards Barbara Gonzalez, spokesperson for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), stated the raid took place because of a tip by a "union member" two years before. Other media accounts focused on an incident in which plant workers allegedly cheered as their coworkers were led away by ICE agents.
The articles claim the plant was torn by tension between immigrant and non-immigrant workers, and that unions in Mississippi are hostile to immigrants. Many Mississippi activists and workers, however, charge the raid had a political agenda - undermining a growing political coalition that threatens the state's conservative Republican establishment. They also say the raid, which took place during union contract negotiations, will help the company resist demands for better wages and conditions.
Jim Evans, a national AFL-CIO staff member in Mississippi and a leading member of the state legislature's Black Caucus, said he believed "this raid is an effort to drive immigrants out of Mississippi. It is also an attempt to drive a wedge between immigrants, African Americans, white people and unions - all those who want political change here." Patricia Ice, attorney for the Mississippi Immigrant Rights Alliance (MIRA), agreed that "this is political. They want a mass exodus of immigrants out of the state, the kind we've seen in Arizona and Oklahoma. The political establishment here is threatened by Mississippi's changing demographics, and what the electorate might look like in 20 years."In the last two decades, the percentage of African Americans in the state's population has increased to over 35%, and immigrants, who were statistically insignificant until recently, are expected to reach 10% in the next decade. Mississippi union membership has been among the nation's lowest, but since the early 1980s, workers have joined unions in catfish and poultry plants, casinos and shipyards, along with those at Howard Industries. Evans, other members of the Black Caucus, many of the state's labor organizations, and immigrant communities all see shifting demographic as the basis for changing the state's politics. Over the last seven years their growing coalition has proposed legislation to set up a Department of Labor (Mississippi is the only state without one), guarantee access to education for children of all races and nationalities, and provide drivers' licenses to immigrants. MIRA organized support in the state capitol for those proposals and Evans, who sponsored many of them, chairs the MIRA's board. Earlier this year, however, the legislature passed, and Governor Haley Barbour signed, a law making it a state felony for an undocumented worker to hold a job, punishable by 1-5 years in prison and $1,000-10,000 in fines. Employers are given immunity for employing workers without papers, so long as they vet new hires through an ICE database called E-Verify. It is still not known whether the people arrested at Howard Industries will be charged under the new state law. Evans says the law and the raid serve the same objectives. "They both just make it easier to exploit workers. The people who profit from Mississippi's low wage system want to keep it the way it is," he alleged.
In the week before the raid, MIRA organizers received reports of a growing number of ICE agents in southern Mississippi. They began leafleting immigrant communities, warning them about a possible raid and explaining their rights should people be questioned about their immigration status. When agents finally showed up at the Howard Industries plant, many workers say they tried to invoke those rights, and warn others that a raid was in progress. One woman, later detained and then released to care for her child, began to call workers who had not yet come to the factory on her cell phone, warning them to stay away. "She first called her brother, and then began calling anyone else she could think of," explained her mother, who works in a local chicken plant. Both feared being identified publicly. "An agent grabbed her arm, and asked her what she was doing, so she went into the bathroom, and kept calling people until they took her phone away."
Howard Industries, like most Mississippi employers, has a long record of opposing unions. Workers there chose representation by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers on June 8, 2000, by a vote of 162-108. Employment at the plant, which manufactures electrical ballasts and transformers, grew considerably after the election, and the company now employs over 4000 workers at several locations in Mississippi. In 2002 it received a $31.5 million subsidy for expansion from the state government, and at one point state legislators were all given HI laptop computers. "The company is very well-connected politically," says Evans, who noted that its owners donated to the campaigns of former Democratic governor Ronnie Musgrove, and then to Mississippi's current Republican governor Haley Barbour.
As it grew the company hired many immigrant Mexican and Central American workers, diversifying a workforce that was originally primarily African American and white. The company has declined to comment, and released a press statement that said, "Howard Industries runs every check allowed to ascertain the immigration status of all applicants for jobs. It is company policy that it hires only U.S. citizens and legal immigrants." (We really believe this!) During the organizing drive the union filed charges with the National Labor Relations Board, alleging intimidation and violations of workers' rights. After the union and company agreed on a contract, more charges followed. NLRB Region 15 issued a complaint against the company for violating the union's bargaining rights. Roger Doolittle, attorney for IBEW Local 1317, says other charges allege that the company threatened a union steward for trying to represent workers in the plant. In June the Occupational Safety and Health Administration announced it intended to fine the company $123,000 for 36 violations of health and safety regulations at the Pendorf plant, where the raid took place, and another $41,000 in fines for a second Laurel location.Tension between the company and union increased after the collective bargaining agreement expired at the beginning of August. According to one immigrant worker, who was not detained because he worked on swing shift and did not want to be identified, the union was asking for a wage increase of $1.50/hour and better vacation benefits. Company medical benefits are also an issue among workers, he said, because family coverage costs over $100/week, putting it out of reach for most employees. Mississippi is a right-to-work state, and labor contracts cannot require that workers belong to the union. Instead, unions must continually try to sign workers up as members. In past years, according to other union sources, IBEW Local 1317 had a reputation as a union that did not offer much support to its immigrant members. According to the swing shift worker, who did not belong to the union, there were just a few hundred members at the Pendorf plant, and in negotiations the company used that low membership as a reason not to sign a new agreement. To increase its ability to negotiate a contract, Local 1317 began making greater efforts to sign up immigrant members. Spanish-speaking organizers were brought in, and they handed out leaflets in Spanish explaining the benefits of membership. They visited workers at home so they could talk about the union without being overheard or seen by company supervisors. According to the swing shift worker, many began to join, especially the immigrants who'd been hired most recently. IBEW's national newspaper, Electrical Worker, reported that over 200 had signed up last April, according to Local 1317's African-American business manager Clarence Larkin. "It's a constant process to keep the union alive and growing," he told the paper. That's when the plant was raided. Local 1317 will now have to try to negotiate a contract after the loss of many of its members, who were among those detained. Those members, who joined the union in hopes of better wages and treatment, instead have been imprisoned for days in Jena, Louisiana, a two-hour drive from Laurel. ICE spokesperson Barbara Gonzalez would not provide an estimate of how long they might be jailed, but said "the investigation of their cases is ongoing."The day after ICE agents stormed the factory MIRA began organizing meetings to provide legal advice, food and economic help. According to MIRA director Bill Chandler, Howard Industry representatives told detainees' families, and women released to care for children, that the company wouldn't give them their paychecks. On August 28 MIRA organizer Vicky Cintra led a group of workers to the Pendorf plant to demand their pay. Managers called Laurel police and sheriffs, who threatened to arrest her. After workers began chanting, "Let her go!" and news reporters appeared on the scene, the company finally agreed to distribute checks to about 70 people.The swing shift worker was so frightened by the raid that he hadn't gone back to work after almost a week, and wasn't sure he'd have a job waiting if he did. "Everyone is still really scared," he said. The Hattiesburg American reported Friday that Howard Industries sent a letter to customers two days after the raid, assuring them that production would be back to normal by the end of the week, and noting that the company has not been charged. Spokesperson Barbara Gonzalez claimed ICE waited two years after receiving a call from a "union member" before conducting the raid, because "we took the time needed for our investigation." She declined to say how that investigation was conducted, or what led ICE to believe their tip had come from a union member. The picture of a plant in which union members were hostile to immigrants was reinforced after the raid by media accounts of an incident in which workers "applauded" as their coworkers were taken away.
"It's hard to believe that a two-year old phone call to ICE led to this raid, but whether or not the call ever took place, that possibility is a product of the poisonous atmosphere fostered by politicians of both parties in Mississippi," says MIRA director Chandler. "In the last election Barbour and Republicans campaigned against immigrants to get elected, but so did all the Democratic statewide candidates except Attorney General Jim Hood. The raid will make the climate even worse."
Note 1: Howard Industries and CEO Billy Howard Jr. contributed a total of $25,000 to state campaigns in 2007, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics, a nonprofit organization that runs a comprehensive campaign finance database based on files from state disclosure agencies. Of that, $10,500 went to the campaign of Gov. Haley Barbour, R, with $4,000 donated by Howard Industries and Howard Trucking. The remaining $6,500 was made by Howard Jr.
Note 2: Department of Homeland Security agents began descending on different work sites in Mississippi to unleash another brutal immigration raid. According to Mr. Chandler, DHS began renting hotel space over the past few days, indicating the presence of hundreds of Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents.
ICE placed the Southern Hens poultry plant under lockdown, which employs nearly 2,000 people in Mossell , Mississippi . Mossell is between Hattiesburg and Laurel on I-59.
RACIAL PROFILING: And on Sunday night ICE set up roadblocks near the Wal-Mart in Hattiesburg , an illegal detentive stop to check for immigration status of passersby’s.
Posts
39 comments:
"Racist Union Members"? Now you have really gone too far, dee!
Those union members were being discriminated against in overtime and in the HR department in their hiring practices. What makes them racist for reporting the illegals whose presence was keeping them from negotiating a contract with the company and other discrimantory practices that were going on? You are unbelievable to stick up for illegal workers and call American workers racists.
Those workers felt that if they reported it to ICE that both the employer and the illegal worker would pay. What is wrong with you, dee? I really think you need to move out of this country. Mexico would probably be more to your liking.
Read the Blog Pat. READ THE BLOG!! NOT ALL Union Members, just those that are Racist! Laughing! Cheering! READ THE REASONS!!
. illegal immigrants were starting to join the Union.
When the heinous employers saw the end to their exploitation, they called in their cronies at ICE to bring in the Raids!
READ THE ENTIRE BLOG PAT!
Then Comment on the ENTIRE Blog!!!
It is Howard Industries that is the Culprit!! Try to understand!!
Howard Industries AND the Administration!!
The primary REASON for the Raid in Laurel was to teach the workers who attempted to join a Union, "IF you try to join a Union, WE are so connected to the Administration then we will shackle you and send you to a Crony Owned Detention Center!"
The Employers can now say (as the W Administration so often says) "Mission Accomplished!"
NAM - Expanding the news lens through ethnic media.
That kinda says it all, doesn't it?? You post someone else's blog posting as a news article?? It is nothing more than biased opinion as stated in the blog name. Come up with something a little better.
Just because those union members were laughing and cheering that doesn't make them racists!!!!!
They were doing so for the reasons in my prior post!
It doesn't make any difference if there was an ulterior motive involved for the raids. ICE IS SUPPOSED TO CONDUCT RAIDS! They nabbed 600 illegal workers. You are more concerned about a supposed ulterior motive than the arrest of illegal workers taking jobs from Americans and the possible justice to yet be served on the employer??? You sink to a new low as an American dee.
No YOU try to undertand, dee!!!! BOTH THE ILLEGALS AND THE EMPLOYER IF HE KNOWINGLY HIRED THEM TO WORK THERE ARE GUILTY! WHY ARE YOU ONLY BLAMING THE EMPLOYER? AT LEAST WE ANTI'S WANT BOTH PUNISHED IF GUILTY!!!! THAT IS WHERE YOU LOSE ALL CREDIBILTY ON YOUR SIDE.
The Employers knew. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself! Sheesh! Even Icefan acknowledges this much! Shame on you Pat!
Pat,
Stick to the discussion and stop your name calling. Rather late for you to post. Hmmm. Maybe thats why you used such tactics! Stop it and stick to the discussion. Name calling comments, as you know, will always be deleted.
Dee,
with all due respect, if the illegal aliens were WHITE folks from Poland or the Ukraine, the union members would have cheered just as much. The union members would have laughed just as hard.
Know why?
The union members were mostly BLACK. Their ancestors were dragged to this nation in chains. These union members deserve first crack at the available jobs.
The union members don't want illegal white people coming from Europe to take jobs and they don't want illegal people from Mexico to come take their jobs.
You don't have to be racist to cheer and laugh when illegals are rounded up.
Go do a google search. The black workers at Howard are speaking up - they are making their voices heard.
God bless them
Hey if the workers scream loud enough that illegals are being hired in the same plant they work in, more power to them, union or not. I read where hundreds of CITIZENS lined up to get the jobs the illegals held.
That is the way it is supposed to work. American citizens and legal workers DESERVE the jobs. They have families to support. Who cares if they were union or not. They were passed over for promotions and overtime given to illegals.
Anonymous,
You are totally off the wall with your comments re the cheering coming from Black people.
Actually it was the opposite. Go check out the links! The union advocates supporting the Latinos joining were Black.
So much for your FAKE theory!
What you are missing is, The primary REASON for the Raid in Laurel was to teach the illegal immigrant workers who attempted to join a Union, "IF you try to join a Union, WE are so connected to the Administration then we will shackle you and send you to a Crony Owned Detention Center!"
The Employers can now say (as the W Administration so often says) "Mission Accomplished!"
Dianne,
The corrupt employers could care less about their employees, unions, fair wages, benefits are anything else that takes away from their bottom line. They are after one thing. Profit. Your side allows the admininstration to allow loopholes so the largest employers are NEVER charged! I rarely see any ANTI site advocate charging the employers for their heinous crimes. All I ever hear out of most on your side (e.g. Liquid, PAt, etc)is the loophole in the law will not allow them to be charge. Oh big woop! IF there were such a loophole allowing the latino workers not to be charged, your side would advocate to close them in a fast second! Instead Business goes scot free due to their big donations to their politicans. The Administration pays off their other contributors by providing them no bid contracts for private prisons or in contracts such as belong to Howard Industries. Dont you see this Diane? Do you too pretend to be blind to all of the corruption as Liquid and Pat do? For Heavens Sake, you KNOW the owners of the plant in your town were - are corrupt and they knowingly bring in these workers to exploit them! At least admit it!
The video you linked to a few days ago Dee, shows Black Citizens in line and interviewed, hence my questions in the other topic:
Liquidmicro said...
What of the applicants, Dee?
What of the interview of the applicants?
Have you ever thought of the majority of the population in those towns?
Could it be what was stated before about the rebuilding of New Orleans?
Do most of these applicants understand the politics of what happened? Or do they only understand what effects them personally?
August 28, 2008 7:36 PM
Laurel Mississippi's Demographics:
The racial makeup of the city was 40.64% White, 55.08% African American, 0.11% Native American, 0.33% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 3.17% from other races, and 0.67% from two or more races.
Seems to be an African American Majority there.
I think all of us in here on the ANTI side have told you many times close the loopholes, catch the criminals. You still are not advocating to do that. If you would quit arguing ignorance and started arguing about closing the loopholes, we all could get behind that and make changes happen.
Dee said...
What you are missing is, The primary REASON for the Raid in Laurel was to teach the illegal immigrant workers who attempted to join a Union, "IF you try to join a Union, WE are so connected to the Administration then we will shackle you and send you to a Crony Owned Detention Center!"
The Employers can now say (as the W Administration so often says) "Mission Accomplished!"
September 1, 2008 5:03 PM
You got all that from another blog opinion, OPINION!!, Dee, not truth or fact, OPINION!!!, based on their own interpretation of the events. You happen to agree with their OPINION, while the majority do not.
Dee, I'll tell you what I know about the plant in my town. Yes, I believe they knowingly hired illegal workers but they didn't exploit them, they exploited ME and the rest of the taxpayers in the town. You see, they got tax abatements (3 total) to build their plant, promising to bring JOBS to our town. They brought jobs all right, but they weren't prevailing wage. They were minimum wage or slightly above. They weren't jobs that paid enough for citizens to work at and raise a family in Johnson County unless you lived in depressed housing or shared expenses by combining several families per house. In other words, the people living in this community couldn't afford to work there so the employer got them elsewhere.
This ain't no packing house plant Dee. There are no deplorable working conditions or dangerous jobs. There are LOW WAGE jobs, jobs where the prevailing wage was undercut by those who were willing to work for practically nothing in comparison to other jobs in the area.
I blame the employer, I blame the city officials who gave them the tax abatements and I blame the illegals.
Let me tell you a little something about those tax abatements, by the way. For 10 years they don't have to pay ANY property taxes. In the meantime, we, the citizens are paying on THREE bond issues in this school district, the highest taxes in the State of Kansas. And, now, because we have so many ESL learners, we had to spend close to $2 million more dollars to meet the state requirements to special facilities for ESL learners.
We, the local taxpaying citizens were the ones exploited here and that's the case all over this country.
Pat,
Keep name calling and I will delete every post Pat. Makes no difference to me.
Makes my day, like Chocolate!!
You know the rules now cut it out!
Dianne,
You are a breath of fresh air for your side. You are the first to admit the depth of the crimes and complicity committed by Businesses and the Administration and Local Politicians. I agree they pay the lowest unlivable wage to bring the undocumented workers. While it is true the working conditions in many of these locations are not deplorable, the low wages themselves are a form of exploitation because they know those workers are desperate.
But the problem is as long as the loopholes are there, they will continue these actions. They just laugh at ALL of us because they get away scot free!
Dianne said:
I blame the employer, I blame the city officials who gave them the tax abatements and I blame the illegals.
Liquid,
I am the ONLY one here saying CLOSE the LOOPHOLES! Arrest the EMPLOYERS. All you say in your best Reaganesque voice, "weeelllll, you can´t arrest them because of the loop holes."
Liquid,
As I continue to say, I agree the locals should get in line and be hired for these jobs. I agree the plant should be working in safe OSHA certified conditions. They should be paid union wages and benefits.
However, do you really believe Howard Industries will do this? They are like the companies Dianne spoke about. They look to pay the lowest wages with NO benefits so they reap the biggest profit. Howard is worse than most since they have so many OSHA violations and allow workers to work in unsafe conditions.
My guess is H.I. will do what Agriprocessors is doing. They will run understaffed until the heat passes, then quietly close or move out of country.
And do you know WHY these Employers continue to do this? Because your side lets them go with your little loopholes!!
You can blame it all on Busheconomics!
Bush economics have nothing to do with it, ignorance becomes you. Look to Slick Willie, he signed the bill with the loop holes. We have all said to close the loop holes, we all agree on it, you are trying to make it out like its our fault, again, ignorance becomes you. We have been arguing about the very thing Diane spoke of, for a very long time, you have refused to listen, nowyou act like it has been all your idea?? What was it you told me when I said how the worker were being exploited, back in May of this year. See: Feinsteins Farm Bill.
Where it was you advocating for these migrant farmworkers losing their ability to be protected by the H-2A Visa and its requirements. YOU!!!! ADVOCATED THEM LOSING THEIR RIGHTS!!
Dee said...
Liquid,
It is nice to see you taking the side of the exploited worker. I agree all should do what we can to punish the exploitive employers. They are not following immigration laws and policies and should be sanctioned!
May 15, 2008 10:37 PM
I can make you look foolish all day, if you like.
Liquidmicro said...
Your still arguing on behalf of business, not on behalf of the "Immigrant". You wish to remove any sanctions for the use of cheap labor. If anything, you argue my point for me because you fail to see it from the workers side. Employers need to be, nay, must be, put into check and forced to treat employees like persons instead of disposable product.
Our visa programs are there for the protection of the "immigrant" from exploitation, and are there for the American Citizen not having to compete with slave labor and declining wages.
You are doing nothing but giving the employers a free ticket to continue doing just what they have been doing. Me thinks, you are seriously confused.
May 18, 2008 11:10 PM
Liquid,
Do you read what you post?
Of course I said in May "I agree all should do what we can to punish the exploitive employers. They are not following immigration laws and policies and should be sanctioned!"
I say it now. I always have said this.
It is YOU who rubs his hands together and say "the loopholes the loopholes".
Liquid,
It is you who is confused.
From Day 1 I have said the Employers should be sanctioned and punished. The Rubashkins from Agriprocessors now Billy Howard from H.I. should be charged, found guilty and put in prison for their crimes. They hired thousands of illegal immigrants. And they walk around scot free.
How can you condone that?
All you ever do is rub your hands together and say "the loop holes!"
Your side would not let any loopholes stopping you from arresting the workers. Look at all the workers at H. I. whose cases were in progress for legalization that were shipped to the Jena Detention Center. Their in progress documentation should have been their loophole. Yet they were not even provided proper legal counsel. Instead, shipped off in shackles!!
Shame on you for rubbing your little hands together protecting the employers and saying, "the loopholes the loopholes!"
Your attitude is Shameful!!
For you to bring up Dianne Feinstein´s AgJob guest worker bill and try to compare it to the flagrant abusive hiring of THOUSANDS of migrant workers at Agriprocessors and Howard Industries is an outright bogus, bogus argument.
Stop rubbing your little hands together and whimpering "loophole loophole" in your futile attempt to save the employers from prosecution!!
I say ICE should put the Rubashkins and Billy Howard in JAIL TODAY!!
Liquidmicro said...
So, Dee is basically saying, if the employers aren't punished then neither should the "Illegal Workers" be punished.
Kumbya, everybody, there is her 'status quo' argument. However, the "Illegals" have no right to be here, therefor, BYE, BYE. Now the employers will be forced to hire citizens and/or LEGAL workers, who, if they choose, can form and/or join UNIONS. Now no more depressed wages. Change the laws in regards to hiring workers, tamper proof ID, E-Verify (fix issue with SS# match to person name), and walla, problems go away.
September 2, 2008 11:01 AM
Liquidmicro said...
The problem with Corporations and Incorporations is, who is the employer? Who knowingly hired these "Illegal Immigrants"?? Most, if not all, Corp. and Incorp. are ublicly traded organizations, there is no owner, only a CEO and so forth down. So I ask again, who knowingly hired the "Illegal Immigrant"? how can you hold the 'owner' when there is not one, liable?
Look to the Corporate Laws:
the five defining characteristics of the modern corporation are:
* separate legal personality of the corporation (the right to sue and be sued in its own name)
* limited liability of the shareholders (so that when the company is insolvent, they only owe the money that they subscribed for in shares)
* transferrable shares (usually on a listed exchange, such as the London Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange or Euronext in Paris)
* delegated management, in other words, control of the company placed in the hands of a board of directors
* investor ownership, which Hansmann and Kraakman take to mean, ownership by shareholders.
The defining feature of a corporation is its legal independence from the people who create it. If a corporation fails, shareholders will lose their money, and employees will lose their jobs, but neither will be liable for debts that remain owing to the corporation's creditors. This rule is called limited liability, and it is why corporations end with "Ltd." (or some variant like "Inc." and "plc"). In the words of British judge, Walton J, a company is...
"...only a juristic figment of the imagination, lacking both a body to be kicked and a soul to be damned."
But despite this, corporations are recognised by the law to have rights and responsibilities like actual people. Corporations can exercise human rights against real individuals and the state, and they may be responsible for human rights violations. Just as they are "born" into existence through its members obtaining a certificate of incorporation, they can "die" when they lose money into insolvency. Corporations can even be convicted of criminal offences, such as fraud and manslaughter.
September 2, 2008 11:11 AM
Like I stated before, Dee, now we are into Corporate Law. Look at Corporate Protection Laws. These also need changed, the question is how? and what?
Why do you do this, dee? I already posted several links to stories where the employers have been jailed and/or fined for hiring illegal aliens? Why do you deny that, dee? I have also stated that I want the employers punished if they have knowingly hired illegal aliens and have given you links to other anti forums who say likewise. Why do you continue to deny that, dee? Where is the honesty in this blog? Will we ever see any?
Liquid,
Let me POINT to people who should be Arrested for their Blatant Abuse!!
1. Rubashkin brothers at Agriprocessors!
2. Billy Howard at Howard Industries.
Both of these employers employed THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants. They did this Blatantly! They Blatantly Abused the Immigration Laws of America! They solicited, hired and exploited THOUSANDS of migrant workers! They continue to FLAUNT their ABUSE in our Faces as they go about UNPUNISHED!!
Arrest Them!!
That will clearly provide an Example to the American Public that the Republicans and All on your side are not only concerned but consistent in the legal charges against those obviously at fault!!
Reality is, this will NEVER Happen because NONE on your side are SERIOUS about punishing the Employers!!!!!!
I'm sure the HR persons arrested from Agriprocessors, Inc. would, or could, provide information and credible information to indict the Rabushkins. So far, nothing beyond the HR department. So WHO hired the "Illegals" for exploitation and profit?? So far, the HR Department.
Same goes for HI, Inc.
So stating that we anti's are serious about wanting the employers punished if guilty is not being sincere? Care to explain that!!!
"Arrest them"? Liquid, myself and the other anti's cannot do that. We don't have the authority to do so.
We have admitted the guilt of both the employers and the illegals. You are the one who isn't sincere because you don't want to hold the illegals accountable at all. You are the one who looks foolish and hypocritical in your views.
Oh Poor Liquid and Pat,
Rubbing your little hands together and whispering "the loopholes, the loopholes!" You remind me of the smeegle in Lord of the Rings!! (my precious!)
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