Thursday, July 16, 2009

Judge Sotomayor and my Lesson from Eighth Grade

When I was in Junior High School I had an experience I do not like to dwell upon. I am reminded of that experience today, through the Sotomayor hearings. Some Republicans and Right wing Shock Jocks have attempted to label Judge Sotomayor a reverse racist. In reality, she is not. Instead, she is a strict advocate of the law. Her enemies, for various political reasons, are mischaracterizing her actions.
Additionally, some right wingers seem to suggest racism against minorities does not exist in our country and all things are equal. These right wingers are wrong.

My Junior High School experience helped me learn a very important lesson in life. As many of my long time readers know, I grew up in Michigan. Since my Dad worked in an auto factory, we were one of the very few Latino families that lived in Michigan all year long. Growing up, most of my friends were white. There were very few Latinos or Blacks living in Lansing at the time. In eighth grade, my friend Allie and I walked home from school. We often took short cuts because we lived miles away from school.

When Allie and I walked home, we cut across some railroad tracks. On one particular day, we saw a purse on the tracks. Allie picked it up. She looked inside and saw a wallet. It had the name of a student with our school ID in it. We both decided she would take it to the principal's office the next day so the owner could pick it up.

The next afternoon, just before the end of the school day, I was called into the vice principal's office. She started badgering me with numerous questions. "Did you take it?" "Why did you take it?" I was startled by her attack. I explained that Allie and I found the purse and we both agreed she would bring it into the office. The Vice Principal kept badgering me. Being only 12 years old, I finally started crying. The Vice Principal said my tears proved I was lying and I may as well admit I stole it. I said no. I did not. I asked her to bring Allie in the room. She said No. She was not going to do that to her. She told me to go home and think about it and come back with a confession the next day.

Since it was after the school day ended, I walked home alone, crying the whole way. My mom and dad were waiting for me when I arrived. I was late. They saw me crying. They wanted to know what was wrong.

I explained what happened.

Mom and Dad were both quiet. They both sat beside me and let me cry. I said, "Why would they think that? Why? I have always been a good student. Why would they think that?"

They hugged me. Then Dad said, "This is your first experience with true racism. This is not the last time this will happen. Expect it to happen many more times. In situations like this, some people will just assume you are guilty simply because you are Mexican."

"But why Dad? Why? I am a good girl."
He nodded. "Yes mija. I know you are a good girl. But we Mexicans are always suspect in some people's eyes. We have to know the rules and abide by them. We have to work twice as hard just to be considered equal. You will see others bend the rules or break them, but you can never do so. And the crimes of one Mexican are layed on the shoulders of all of us."


I blinked back my tears and listened to every word he was saying. "But Dad. Is that fair?"

"It doesn't matter if it is fair or not. It is just the way it is."
I started to cry again. "Dad. I don't want to go back to school if that is how it is going to be."


"No mijita. No. You must go back to school. If you do not go back to school you will do exactly what they want you to do. They want you to give up. You cannot do that. You are an American. This is our country too. You were born here. I was born here. My Dad was born here. This is our country just as much as it is their country. We are ALL Americans. You must go back. You must complete your education. You must achieve your dreams."

I stopped crying and I nodded.

He added, "Tomorrow, I want you to go back to your friend and ask her what she told the principal. If she is your friend and she is honest, she will tell you the truth. Then the both of you can go back to the principal and tell the truth."

I nodded. My parents both hugged me.

Though I didn't want to go back the next day, I did as my father suggested. I went back to Allie and asked her what she said to the principal. She told me she went to the Vice Principal, turned in the purse and told her we found it. I told her what the Vice Principal said. It was Allie's turn to become angry. We both went back to the Vice Principal's office. Allie repeated the truth about what happened and asked the Vice Principal why she made accusations against me. The VP became quiet and shrugged. She said "Fine" and guided us to leave her office. Though she looked embarrassed, she never apologized to me, but at least she left me alone.

I thought about my eighth grade experience as I heard Republican Senators rehash over and over again Judge Sotomayor's out of context comments or their misinterpretation of the Ricci case. I admire Judge Sotomayor's civility and poise throughout the hearing and as she proved her diligence to the Constitution and the Rule of Law her entire career. She believed in hard work and Education in order to achieve the American Dream, just like my Dad coached me.

38 comments:

ultima said...

Dee wrote,"I can understand their perspective and I can understand the fact they are focused on their own personal perspectives vs the rule of law.

It's funny how you use the rule of law only when it serves your purpose.

ultima said...

"Did you take it?" "Why did you take it?"

Sounds like a standard police tactic in questioning a person of interest. This principal wasn't the first to use it and by far the majority of others who were questioned in this way weren't minorities. Obviously this principal erred in badgering a young girl and more importantly failing to question the other witness. I was questioned once by the State Fire Commissioner when a fire was set in the train depot by some drunk. He was none too gentle with me and I think at the time they already had the culprit.

Denise Lugo said...

What a beautiful, amazing, inspiring article, Dee! We have experienced the same thing again and again.

My children are American, I am Caucasian and my husband is Mexican. All three were born here and speak only English. In fact, my husband did not want to teach my children Spanish because he feared that they would be more likely to be discriminated.

They all three have light brown hair, green eyes and an olive complexion. Most assume at first that they are white. You wouldn't believe the reactions from those who are racist when they find out my children aren't white. These people, (usually white) older men and women and some other minorities (we also get this reaction from a few Asian countries) are friendly to my children until they find out they are Mexican.

AS SOON AS they know... the expression on their face turn to disgust! It feels like we just told them my children had some sort of very contagious FATAL disease – but without the sympathy!

They are children, though! How can they be disgusted at CHILDREN?!
I just can't comprehend it, but it's something my family experiences DAILY where we live (Pacific Northwest).

Our skin color combined with my Husband's strong accent, we are frequently looked down upon as (in Chuck Stonex's words) "bottom-feeding Mexican parasites," or "anchor babies."

Although they are very proud of their heritage and proud of their father, my oldest is starting to feel like being Mexican is something to be ashamed of as a result of the hate he's experienced. He's ONLY 13!!! We've been trying to teach them Spanish, but my son doesn't even have a desire to learn.

It is so frustrating. I've devoted my life to teaching them about their roots. Encouraging them to be proud Mexican-American's becomes difficult when they are looked down upon for it. It's got to change. I believe that we can be heard if we yell loud enough. There are too many minorities in the US for this to go on - we can make a difference if we all unite and make our voices heard.

Thank you for your story, although we know we aren't the only ones fighting for equality, it's still comforting to be able to share our experiences. :-)

Sincerely,

The Lugo Family

terryo said...

I didn't see an e-mail for you, but this is a repost from my blog @ http://www.livejournal.com/users/imadi22 This needs so much more attention than the very little it's received. If you know of any other resources (I've contacted LULAC and MEChA), pleas let me know.

I don't know how many of you have heard or are following the recent controversy over at KLBJ AM (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/07/17/0717slur.html), but I haven't been this angry about something in a long time. During one of their morning talk shows, the subject of illegal aliens came up and stirred a conversation where the W word (an ethnic slur comparable to the "N word") was thrown around not once, but THIRTY-FOUR TIMES. The DJs were suspended for two-weeks without pay, and offered a half-ass apology where it was essentially said that he (Don) was sorry we didn't get his sarcasm.

This word. I hate this word. It's so loaded with disgust that every time I hear it I can still hear it the way I heard it flung at me as a kid. Followed by, "Run for the border!" and other racially motivated insults. I don't get it. We have an African American president. It's 2009. How is this still happening? And is it just me, or have we seen a rise in the Mexi-hate lately? If these fools let the "N word" slip 34 times, it would be a front-page national story. For Hispanics, this is just as bad. And a two-week suspension (slap on the wrist) won't cut it. And the media is all but silent about it.

This is too progressive of a city to stand behind hate speech being broadcast on our airwaves. It's disgusting.

Please e-mail the station's program director @ mark@590klbj.com

Better yet, submit an obscene/indecent complaint to the FCC here:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

You'll need this information:
Show: Todd and Don Show
Time: 10AM
Date 7/14/09
KLBJ AM 590

Thank You,

Terry.ornelas@gmail.com

The Arizonian said...

Funny, a similar situation occurred to me in HS.

Except I found a backpack in a park adjacent to the school, and took it to the office. An hour later the police were there questioning me, and searched my bag (which is illegal when performed on a minor without the permission/presence of a parent or guardian...).

The police, student, and school administration were animate of my 'guilt' in the theft of this backpack. I maintained my innocence.

The only reason they dropped it was because the person that stole the backpack tried to use the owner's debit card at the lunchroom. They approached him, and he confessed.

Mind you, in HS I was part of the 'grunge crowd'. Just poor kids with long hair that listened to Nirvana and ditched school alot. The 'victim' was an upstanding Mormon with personal ties to the school's administration staff.

I believe I was singled out due to economic and social discrimination.

Dee said...

Denise,
Please give your children a hug for me. Let them know they are beautiful and they are God´s children. Stand Proud. Never let anyone put you down.
As my Dad taught me,
1. Be proud of who you are
2. Education is important and will enable you to achieve your dreams. Never forget that.
3. Always work hard and be the best you can be.
4. If anyone critizes you, particularly those who critize for no reason other than ethnicity-racism, DO NOT LISTEN to them. They have serious problems. You may not ever know what their personal problems are but they have NOTHING to do with you.
5. Stand Proud. Continue your education. Never do drugs. Be all you can be! You will achieve the American Dream!

Dee said...

AZ and Ultima,
Sounds like people in authority are discriminate at times. These experiences illustrate how people in authority can impact our lives, particularly minorities or anyone they view as different. This is wrong. It should not happen.

I really appreciated my Dads advice, though I didnt want to hear it at the time. He said Go Back. Never Give Up. Continue to seek your dreams.

Vicente Duque said...

Dear Dee :

What the Vice Principal was Teaching in that school was BASTARDY, RACISM and IMBECILITY !!

The Vice Principal : What a perfect BASTARD !!

There are too many BASTARDS in TV, Radio and Republican Politics.

Just Sheer Stupid Idiotic Racist Bastards !!

Think of all these stupid idiots accusing Sonia Sotomayor of being a Racist, when all their lives these Republicans have exerted total Bastardy and Total Racism.

And their TV Show and Radio Rants are nothing but an exhibition of Hate and Fear against Mr Obama and the Democrats for wanting to help the American Economy by helping the poorest classes, the Minorities that they abhor.

Minorities are the only people that have high propensity to consumption and that can fuel Demand. The Recession is a "Demand Recession" and can not be cured by giving alms to the Rich ( The Eternal Republican Solution ).

And when there are few Impact News then the Hate Media resorts to the old trick of Hate against Mexicans and Latinos.

That is why these bastards become rich, because the world has too many village idiots.

And I want to say something : The Bush Supreme Court has been a nest of Anti Minority Feelings and Decisions. They are eroding Civil Rights and diminishing Minorities.

It does not help to have a Black Man Clarence Thomas in the Supreme Court, if that Black Man helps injustice, perhaps inocently or unintentionally.

I can forgive Michael Steele for being Chairman of the Republican National Committee, because his Black Face is a perpetual remainder to all these Republican Racists that enter his office that they are going to lose the Next Elections if they persist with their Racist Bastardy.

Perhaps Michael Steele chose a weird but valid path to help his suffering people.

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

Vicente Duque said...

The Treachery of the Unconscious
The Dirty Old Bathtub


Video of Live CNN, "State of the Union", Journalist John King, Senator Patrick Leahy and Senator Jeff Sessions - Sessions feels ( unjustified ) that he is being accused of Racism by Leahy and becomes annoyed

If you are in the Middle Ages this may happen to you :

You are slapped in the face with a gauntlet that is thrown to the floor.

Someone says to you "I challenge you, sir, to a duel!".

You pick up the gauntlet from the floor and face the challenge.

That is what Jeff Sessions did, only problem is that Patrick Leahy never said that Sessions was a Racist or that Republicans were Racists and he never mentioned Racism.

But the subconscious of Jeff Sessions produced a Self-Accusation, and he picked a gauntlet that was not intended for him.

He became very annoyed !! .... Leahy destabilized Sessions and he lost his poise !

What Patrick Leahy said, speaking in general terms, was that the Age of smearing a person because of belonging to the NAACP, or any other Ethnic Legal Association, should be over.

This is also called "Treason of the Unconscious" .... The Unconscious is very Treachery ...

There is also a very popular proverb or apothegm :

"unrequired explanations, manifest accusation"

Jeff Sessions is giving "unrequired explanations" ... His soul is like a dirty bathtub that has not been scrubbed in 5 years and has a lot of mold, that is fungi and spores, a dirty old bathtub.

July 19, 2009
The two leading members of the Senate Judiciary Committee spar over Judge Sonia Sotomayor on the Sunday following the conclusion of Senate Confirmation Hearings.

Sen. Patrick Leahy accuses Sen. Jeff Sessions of "racial politics" when Sessions cites Sotomayor's past in "a Puerto Rican legal defense fund."

Title of the Video :
Leahy to Sessions: "Come On, Stop The Racial Politics"

See more Videos and Learned Articles on Sonia Sotomayor and the Activist Justices of the Conservative Supreme Court.

Milenials.com

Vicente Duque

ultima said...

It is thoroughly disgusting when children are discriminated against and I am surprised at those who in this day and age still see fit to act this way. Children can be cruel but adults should know better.

Still it would be good for everyone to try to understand the motivation of those who take their beefs out on children. It is not disclosed whether Mr. Lupo is or was an illegal alien. He may be a fine man but if he was or is an illegal, others will take his transgressions out on those near at hand, the children in this case. Not nice but there it is. It shows the depth of the feelings of many Americans about the violations of our borders and the presence of 12 million illegals in our country, growing at the rate of 8.1% per year. If anyone has regard for this country, they have no choice but to react negatively to this trend unless you think Mexico Norte will be better than America.

The Arizonian said...

I guess I missed how Senators grilling her over the 'Ricci case' has anything to do with racism, but I digress.

However, to make a claim that she "...she proved her diligence to the Constitution" is debatable at best.

Take for example Maloney v. Cuomo. She ruled that the Second Amendement didn't apply to the States, meaning that the States could further restrict someone's right to bear arms. This makes no sense considering that all states ratified the the Constitution and must obey it (except Texas, it joined the union by treaty and can resend their involvement if they so wish). I'm all for State's rights except when it violates the constitution.

Also, her Clinton-esque answers to questions bother me. Why is it so hard for her to say something so simple?

ultima said...

Lest anyone conclude that such concerns are without foundation, I recommend the book "America Alone" by Mark Steyn. A quick read will demonstrate that what we have in America with its illegal aliens is a close parallel to what Europe has with its Muslim population. The original population of Europe is in decline while Muslims propagate at more than twice their rate -- 1.48 vs. 3.5 children per woman respectively. The majority of young people in Europe will soon be Muslim and not just your run of the mill Muslims whose beliefs and behavior has been moderated by exposure to European culture but radicalized youths who believe in jihad, subjugation of women, and sharia. It is a fact that Europe within the foreseeable future will be controlled by Muslims and everyone will be subject to sharia. Perhaps then women will realize that having a few more children could have been their salvation. In a contest of age vs. youth, the numbers will grant victory to the young.

In the U.S. there are those in a state of deep denial who do not see that the trend here is analogous to the one in Europe. Only here the first wave will be Hispanic and then when America is Mexico Norte, we'll all realize, too late, that our inaction on illegal aliens and excessive legal immigration as well as our misguided birth right citizenship provision were our undoing, not just for the anglos, the blacks, the asians but for the Hispanics themselves as well.

The second wave will be Muslim with a copy of sharia under their arms and an ample supply of burqas for all the women, especially those who love to trot around in short shorts, skimpy tops, and bikinis. Welcome to the brave new world.

The point is: when immigration is uncontrolled
the country that has such a loose policy is sealing its own doom. Now some will argue that Hispanics can't be all bad and that is certainly true. The worrisome thing is that they had to come here because they were not able to get their own houses in order in their homelands -- more often than not, countries characterized by corruption, poverty, crime, oligarchs, and overpopulation. What is there in that picture to give anyone an optimistic view of America's future? Isn't it more likely, as I have stated many times, that in the long run immigrants in such large numbers will tend to re-create the very conditions they left their homelands to escape, if not by their actions and culture then by their sheer numbers that overcome the capacity of the land on which we all depend. And in the longer run, perhaps even religious freedom will disappear as Mulim moderates who might otherwise be disposed to live and let live will simply capitulate to the jihadist preachings of the imams in America mosques.
After all why should an American moderate Muslim be expected to take on the most powerful men in Islam, when America's media and politicians merely pander to them.

Somehow, it seems to me this also applies to Hispanics. Why would any moderate Hispanic take on the powerful forces of their own organizations like La Raza, MALDEF,PRLDEF, etc. when our own government and media fail to do so. In some respects, this is like the failure of the media in the days leading up to the Iraq war. A little more noise at that time might have had a salutory effect on U.S. policy. But as we have seen, the media have continued in its wayward ways by becoming outwardly political rather than faithfully performing its role as the fourth branch of government -- keeping the other branches honest.

ultima said...

Changing the subject to another current event, I would welcome any comments bloggers would like to make regarding health care reform

Vicente Duque said...

Anti-Sonia Hypocrisy and Superb Ignorance :

The Ricci Decision of the Supreme Court and Conservative Judicial Activism

There is a Great Dissatisfaction and Protest of Great Lawyers, Jurists, Experts in Constitutional Law, Professors of Law. Great Inconformity and Disagreement with the Supreme Court.

There are so many learned articles condemning the Supreme Court on Ricci and other decisions, that I have assembled a page of links on these hot-red topics.

Here :

Links to Supreme Court and its Conservative Judicial Activism - Hurting Civil Rights and Minorities

Vicente Duque

Joe said...

I am very interested in your response to ultima's post shown above about immigration. How do you counter what he says? I am interested in what you have to say.

Dee said...

Ultima, Joe asked that I respond to your diatribe (your usual) on Immigration. Here is my response:

Your ANTI Immigration Reform argument is the same as provided by most in your movement.

You cite baseless assumptions and horror stories to instill fear in readers of your diatribe so they will join your side.

Your claims are not facts. The writers of the books you reference are more from your side.

Your talking points are the same talking points used by Teddy Roosevelt when he demonized the waves of German immigrants coming into the US during the turn of the last century. Roosevelt also criticized Native Americans using words "wrong kind of immigrants" when referencing both German and Native Americans, much the same way you are demonizing Muslims and Latinos.

You remind me of the child in the movie Sixth Sense, only you do not fear dead people. You fear Brown people. Your movement fears the changing demographics in our country. We do have 50M Hispanic citizens in our country. We are all Americans. We are the people you truly fear.

You use such politically correct terms when you really mean:
1. English Only = Stop anyone from speaking spanish
2. Change 14th Ammendment = No more "anchor" babies and send back those here
3. Build a Wall: Seal off the Southern Border - forever. Don't care about canadian border or ports
4. Strict Enforcement of existing laws = Mass Deportation of the 12M and their children
5. Controlled Immigration = Only allow White Educated Northern Europeans to immigrate.

GOAL: The Bleaching of America

You may as well get over your fears. We are a thriving, multi cultural society in America and we will continue to grow and thrive. We are not overpopulated as you suggest. In fact, we are the opposite. Without the influx of newer immigrants (legal and illegal), many towns/cities would have died out. We have witnessed the effect of massive deportations during the ICE Raids in Postville, Iowa. The town is now out of business. Multiply that by a thousand cities and witness the impact of mass deporting 12M workers and their sales revenues/contributions.

Your fear tactics scare only the uneducated. More and more Americans are becoming enlightened to the truth and what the worst on your side are capable of, ala Shawna Forde and Gunny Bush, and the perpetrators of all the Hate Crimes against Latinos.

I am glad our President Obama has asked us to talk about Immigration and what we can do to improve our broken processes. It is through dialogue and discussion that we can discuss the truth and not just your side's fear tactics.

BTW, NCLR (you call it La Raza), MALDEF and other groups are Humanitarian organizations with long histories of helping people. They are like the NAACP, with histories of hope and help for minorities. I am glad they are here, helping Americans.

God Bless America
God Bless President Obama

Dee said...

I will be writing more tonight on this subject. I will talk about the current broken immigration processes in more detail.

Joe said...

ultima said:

The worrisome thing is that they had to come here because they were not able to get their own houses in order in their homelands -- more often than not, countries characterized by corruption, poverty, crime, oligarchs, and overpopulation. What is there in that picture to give anyone an optimistic view of America's future? Isn't it more likely, as I have stated many times, that in the long run immigrants in such large numbers will tend to re-create the very conditions they left their homelands to escape, if not by their actions and culture then by their sheer numbers that overcome the capacity of the land on which we all depend

This is what I am concerned about. Never in the history of the U.S. has so many people from ONE country
entered the U.S. This is why there are quotas on the number of people who can enter from different countries. It appears that Mexico has exhausted and exceeded their quota for entry into the U.S. Do you agree?

Joe said...

I do not fear "brown people". I fear that this country will be just like the country Mexicans are leaving behind. Do you have any positive words about Mexico?

ultima said...

I note that Joe did not characterize my essay as a "diatribe" and I would have joined him in being interested in your response.

First let me deal with your numbered responses:

1. Apparently you are so paranoid that you cannot see that Official English and a National Language has nothing whatsoever to do with what language one is allowed to speak. It merely addresses the issue of government spending to produce documents and services in several languages for people who are supposed to know English to even be eligible for citizenship and the services it provides. What is you motivation in continuing to purposely misconstruing the language issue.

2. As you well know many countries do not have birthright citizenship so that idea requires no defense. Birthright citizenship represents a strong incentive for illegals to sneek across the border to have a baby and then use family separation as part of their appeal if they are apprehended and ordered removed. Keeping anchor babies with their parents is the humane thing to do if the parents are deported. There are some technical issues related to the elimination of birthright citizenship that would need to be studied. But any advocate of secure borders, north and south, which you have been whenever it served your purposes, has to be in favor of removing this incentive for border violations.
3. Take whatever actions we can to seal the borders all around. This doesn't mean mine fields, guard towers, or shoot on sight. It means improving infrastructure and staffing; it means creating disincentives by using E-verify to deny employment opportunities and enable prompt apprehension and repatriation. Without these measures border and port security is a pipe dream. You say you are in favor of secure borders because that is politically correct but what you really mean is open borders because you would deny us the tools necessary to achieve at least a major improvement in border and port security. The only distinction I make between the southern and northern borders is that the largest volume is from the south as you well know but conveniently overlook. I am concerned about the Canadian border because its misguided immigration policies allow too many potential jihadists and terrorists to enter their country.

ultima said...

4. As you well know I have never advocated the overnight repatriation of 12 million illegal aliens. That would be bad for them and would also damage our economy. Moreover, again, as you well know, I have proposed various ways of sorting out those who have taken jobs Americans would take, especially now with unemployment creeping into the double digit range, if offered a living wage and a hiring preference. Regular and prompt repatriations of a somewhat larger number than we are currently doing would begin to turn the situation around without any draconian mass deportation of all illegals. But you knew that before you wrote your "diatribe".
5. This one really shows your paranoia. I have always been an advocate of limiting legal immigration more precisely to our real needs rather than being governed by the demand. Anyone but an idiot realizes that we cannot take everyone who would like to come here and still maintain any semblance of the quality of life and standard of living we enjoy.If we need temporary migrant workers, we should change the law to permit an orderly process for meeting that need. If we have to choose between an top scientist or engineer and others who have nothing to offer, the choice is clear. We shoulde limit legal immigrants to no more than 200,000 per year, the historical level, and focus that quota on those who can be of the greatest value to our economy and to our competitiveness in the world. It doesn't make any difference what their race or color is. To make it simple for you, think of it as a job interview. Who would you want to hire for your business if you had one? You might see things differently if you knew your business was going to flourish or founder based on your choice.

Everyone knows about the "browning of America". It is a fact so any talk of the "bleaching of America" is pure unadulterated nonsense and you know it.

Like the Europeans, you are unable to face reality.

ultima said...

Dee wrote,". More and more Americans are becoming enlightened to the truth..."

Not enough when one rejects out of hand any point of view that differs from one's own that's not enlightenment. It's more like the dark ages.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "what the worst on your side are capable of, ala Shawna Forde and Gunny Bush, and the perpetrators of all the Hate Crimes against Latinos."

You keep reminding us of that but not of all the Mexicans incarcerated in CA and elsewhere for there heinous crimes. I doubt that the rape, robbery, DUI, or murder victims of illegal aliens would worry very much about so-called hate crimes against Latinos.
In fact, other minorities are often the victim. So much for the balance in your arguments.

ultima said...

Dee Wrote, "Your claims are not facts. The writers of the books you reference are more from your side."

Well of course. If you were citing a book, would it be one written by a Neolib, Hispanic, Leftwing writer or a rightwing,conservative, white writer?

To make any sense one has to deal with the facts and opinions expressed rather than what part of the poltical spectrum one comes from or his race for that matter.

The book I cited has been on the "liberal" New York Times best seller list. It includes some very cogent opinion well-supported with facts. But it would be of no interest to a closed mind.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Your ANTI Immigration Reform argument is the same as provided by most in your movement."

I guess that validates that argument doesn't it. (50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong!)

In general you again misstate the argument as anti-immigration. More accurately it is an anti-illegal, rule of law argument and an stable population argument that drives the pro-America agenda.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "Your talking points are the same talking points used by Teddy Roosevelt when he demonized the waves of German immigrants coming into the US during the turn of the last century. Roosevelt also criticized Native Americans using words "wrong kind of immigrants" when referencing both German and Native Americans, much the same way you are demonizing Muslims and Latinos."

Well there are many who think Teddy was a great president. Of course it is ridiculous to speak of Native Americans as the wrong kind of immigrants. With regard to Germans, even though my grandparents on my mother's side came from Germany, one has to think about what World War II would have been like if Germans remained the predominant culture in America and if we had a remained a German-speaking people.

I do not demonize Latinos and Muslims. I just tell it like it is. Read the book with an open mind then let's discuss the Muslim threat.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "You cite baseless assumptions and horror stories.."

What are my baseless assumptions and why are they of less value than your equally baseless assumptions? Read the book!

In the meantime, list my baseless assumptions and then confess your own. Don't you see they are two sides of the same coin?

ultima said...

Dee
wrote, "You fear Brown people. Your movement fears the changing demographics in our country. We do have 50M Hispanic citizens in our country. We are all Americans."

I have no fear of Brown people. I have no fear of the changing demographics unless they portend Mexico Norte with all the ills of the original. You have 50 million Hispanic citizens and growing and yet you are in denial about Mexico Norte. Good luck with that.

This is the analog of the Muslim takeover in Europe. I guess you approve of that. That takeover is a demographic fact not an opinion. The 750,000 Muslims in LA should enable you to see that it could happen here also in the long run. And if it does it will be because of unenforced immigration laws and those who want to liberalize them even more. I guess if you don't mind thinking about some of your female descendents in a burqa and the males gravitating to Islam, you have nothing to worry about (Alfred E. Neuman).

Read the book. Enlarge your horizons and your perspective. Tunnel vision and myopia won't help you to understand that there is a world beyond the anti-America, pro-illegal agenda.

ultima said...

So I guess this all means you subscribe to the tenets of Islam and sharia and wouldn't mind living under them as some already do in this country and in most of Europe.

Do you know how many mosques there are in the U.S.? Do you know what the imams preach there (jihad!)? Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? Better read up on it so you will be better informed on what you are letting yourself in for when you defend Muslims?

So far your comments show a singular lack of depth on the Islamic revolution and what it will mean.

ultima said...

Dee wrote, "We are the people you truly fear."

I have no fear of law-abiding citizens. I do fear those who oppose the rule of law because of what they will do to our country.

What would be the basis for any fear other than that? Can you cite any?

ultima said...

"We do have 50M Hispanic citizens in our country."

That factoid alone makes my point quite well. Have you ever considered extrapolating that factoid to the America of 50 or 100 years from now? Honestly, what will it really be like
then?

Vicente Duque said...

Recession Over - Stimulus Plan staves off a bigger downturn - Jobless Recovery - Professor Brad DeLong, U. C. Berkeley

The jobless recovery has begun
The recession is very likely over and Democrats running in 2010 can credit the stimulus plan for staving off a bigger downturn. But when do the jobs return?

The Week
THE BULLPEN
BY Brad DeLong
July 21, 2009

Brad DeLong is a professor in the Department of Economics at U.C. Berkeley; chair of its Political Economy major; a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research; and from 1993 to 1995 he worked for the U.S. Treasury as a deputy assistant secretary for economic policy. He has written on, among other topics, the evolution and functioning of the U.S. and other nations' stock markets, the course and determinants of long-run economic growth, the making of economic policy, the changing nature of the American business cycle, and the history of economic thought.

The jobless recovery has begun
http://www.theweek.com/bullpen/column/98770/The_jobless_recovery_has_begun

Some excerpts :

"The hypothesis is that firms believe that their remaining workers will forgive them if they fire large numbers of workers during a recession out of economic necessity, but not at other times. Hence the start of the recovery is a business' last moment to slim down its labor force and become more efficient and profitable in the coming boom.

At least it is likely to be a recovery. The prevailing forecast right now is for real GDP to contract at a rate of one percent per year or less between the first and second quarters of 2009, followed by growth between the second and third quarters at an annual rate of two percent or so. When the NBER Business Cycle Dating Committee gets around to it, it is most likely to call the end of this recession for June 2009, with the second most likely call for April and a date sometime after June 2009 as a less likely possibility.

Yes, that would mean the recession is over right now. One reason for that is the much-maligned stimulus package, which probably boosted the real GDP annual growth rate by about one percentage point in the second quarter of 2009, and will boost it by another two percentage points between now and the summer of 2010. (After that, its effects will not only tail off, but actually exert a drag on subsequent GDP growth, which is why White House Council of Economic Advisors Chair Christina Romer has been warning of the dangers of pulling the plug on economic stimulus too soon.)

Politically, the question "did the stimulus work?" might well be answered in the affirmative. Democratic members of Congress seeking reelection in 2010 will be able to point to real GDP growth and an official end to the recession in the second quarter of 2009. However, that is probably not the most relevant question to ask.

Comparing the second quarter of this year to the first, work-hours have declined at a rate of six percent annually. Unless new unemployment claims fall precipitously, work-hours from the second to third quarter will decline at a rate of about three percent per year. Productivity is growing not because of new investment in technology but because businesses continue to fire what workers they can, knowing that in so lousy an economy they won't be blamed for it.

Barring much faster real GDP growth than is currently in the cards, we appear destined for another jobless recovery. So the answer to the question "did the stimulus work?" depends on the metric you use. If the metric is the unemployment rate, the answer is very likely to be: No. Why? Because it was too small."

****************

In MILENIALS.COM I am fattening a big page of Links to Obama saving the Economy and bringing prosperity ( with excerpts and my comments ) :

How Obama saves the Economy - The Making of a Great President - The Best Economists Opine - Links

Vicente Duque

Dee said...

Joe,

Ultima and I have had this "argument" hundreds of times before. Before I publish his usual responses, which he has already written, I want to respond to you.

First, you have to understand. The 12M are NOT coming from ONE country. They are coming from numerous countries, many of them Latin, south of the border countries. Many are coming from Central America and South America, not just Mexico. Stop coloring them all with the same brush. Every country is different. Every country has their own positives and negatives. When you say "what they are leaving behind" don't be falling for Ultima's argument. Who says Columbia or Argentina or Brazil have the same issues. Don't believe the rhetoric you hear from Ultima. You don't know. Unless you go there, unless you understand each individual from each location, don't pretend they are, as Tom Tancredo says, "3rd world countries." And don't pretend you know the reasons for the backlogs and immigration issues within each country. Many of the backlog issues are within our own courts. Study the issues. Study the backlogs. Study the reasons for the issues. Then decide how you feel about them.

Dee said...

Ultima's language is ludicrous. When he spouts words like "Mexifornia" or "Mexico Norte" these are just hatefilled terms to demonize the issue.

Do I have positive words for Mexico? Of course. They are their own country. They are doing their best to resolve their issues. I admire the fact that they took a strong stance on the swine flu and they were proactive in facing the issues with this disease head on. That is why we are not seeing a much worse impact than we did. This is due to their proactivity. I also admire the fact that their government is partnering with ours in dealing with their drug issues. The USA is the number 1 abuser of drugs in the world. Many countries, including Mexico, have various groups attempting to be our drug dealers. Thanks to Mexico's diligence, we are seeing massive attacks against the drug cartels and a vast reduction of money/drugs into their country. This is a good thing because in the long run this will help our country end/minimize our reliance on drugs.

Dee said...

Joe,
I do not understand why you have more fear of Mexico than you have of our own USA. We have more drug dealers and drugs in the USA than any other country in the world. Go to any city or suburb. Our neighborhoods are loaded with drugs.

I think one of the challenges our President/Government must address next year (after our issues this year - economy, healthcare and immigration) is ending our country's addiction on both illegal and prescription drugs.

The Arizonian said...

Dee,

In your response to Joe, I noticed an interesting line:
"I do not understand why you have more fear of Mexico than you have of our own USA."

While I can't speak for Joe's opinion or experience, I will offer mine as stated before:
Juarez and other cities like it.

I've been to Mexico, and have no plans to return in any quick fashion to say the least. Mexico is a mess. The blatant racism, hypocrisy, and how they treat their southern border are all reasons for my boycott. That, and I choose life, meaning I'd rather live than go to that country.

You are correct though. We have all stated our opinions and facts as they appear, but those statements need to be re-stated from time to time due to short memories and new visitors.

Personally, I would welcome Joe into the fray of debate, just don't barrage him....

Dee said...

Ultima,
You know as well as I do that the restrictionist cities/towns that have instituted their version of English Only laws have experienced problems with anyone speaking anything other than English. There have been cases where individuals were fired for speaking spanish with co-workers on their breaks. Once these restrictionist laws are imposed, how long before we get more people slugging innocent strangers on the streets for private conversations on their cell phones? (rememember the articles I published with these cases?)

You know as well as I do the reason YOU want these laws imposed is to STOP the printing of government documents in Spanish or any other language. You especially want this on any voting documents. It is easy to understand your motivations. Reprehensible!

The facts are, English is already the National language. I see no problem with people speaking multiple languages. In Europe, most people speak four or five languages. The only paranoia is yours -- your FEAR of Spanish!

Dee said...

Actually, the BLEACHING OF AMERICA is an excellent term for what your side is attempting to do with your moves for Mass Deportation, Change in the 14th Ammendment and Reduced/Regulated future Immigration. I coined the term. I am keeping it!!

In fact, I am going to write a blog about it announcing the New Term!!

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