Friday, November 2, 2007

Governor Spitzer Plays Hardball: The FACTS re New York´s Driver´s License Policy

New York Governor Eliot Spitzer: From a security perspective, we need to know who they (illegal immigrants) are, what they‘re doing. If they‘re going to drive I would rather they be licensed, so we know who they are, where they go, and they can get insurance. As a pure security matter. Richard Clarke, Bill Bratton and Secretary Chertoff said what we are doing will move security forward.

We‘re creating two licenses. Each is equally valid. One of them complies with the federal security statute REAL I.D. One of them does not, and will merely be differentiated by saying “not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

The state of Utah actually created a driver‘s license for undocumented immigrants. This is a number of years ago. The governor approved this was Governor Leavitt, a member of President Bush‘s Cabinet today. Seven states currently do this. Including Michigan, Hawaii, a bunch of others. Secretary Leavitt did it when he was governor. Governor Richardson, presidential candidate, did it in his first year as governor of New Mexico.

MATTHEWS: What do you say of those that killed themselves attacking New York on 9/11 were carrying whole stashes of I.D. driver‘s licenses. They were all in the country, most of them illegally. Yet they had a whole pile of I.D. cards. Isn‘t that exhibit A for the danger of issuing I.D. cards, that people can use at airports?

SPITZER: Just the opposite, they cannot use these to get on airplanes. That‘s why they say “not valid for federal purposes.” In fact, Secretary Chertoff has said specifically that by doing this, we will have the most secure driver‘s license system, among the most secure in the nation. We will move security forward. The prescription for disaster is when you ignore the fact that people are here and let them get forged and fake identification. Every security expert, Richard Clarke, the IG of Homeland Security, who had an op ed in “USA Today,” all agree the best thing to do is to bring the best technology to bear, which is what we will have - facial identification technology, all sorts of scanning technologies, require them with a foreign passport, and only then to be able to get a driver‘s license, so we know who they are and where they are. Give you one more validator on this; the 9/11 Commission specifically looked at the issue of whether or not you should require proof of how you‘re here before you give somebody a driver‘s license and said that‘s not the issue. They said put in place the very technology we‘re putting in place. As recently as today, Slade Gordon, a former United States senator, Republican from the state of Washington, on the 9/11 Commission, endorsed my policy. This is the sort of validation from security experts, not political rhetoric. The political rhetoric is very easy, frankly on both sides of this issue. I‘m trying to do what is good security policy right down the middle.

MATTHEWS: But you‘re denying the fact that your initial goal was to give people here illegally full-fledged I.D. cards, not just the ability to drive a car. And you‘ve only backed down on that because you were forced to by opposition.

SPITZER: Chris, I hate to disagree with you; but what I did was work with the Department of Homeland Security, with Secretary Chertoff, to say how can we make what we‘re trying to do comply with Real I.D. This has been a controversial statute, as you know. The mandates imposed on the states initially were onerous financially. They didn‘t make sense. Secretary Chertoff and I and others negotiated, worked hard; and the Department of Homeland Security has said, if you put in place the measures that you are talking about putting in place, you, as the state of New York and other states as well, will be in compliance with Real I.D.
And at that point, I said good, we can accomplish all of these objectives, security and identification card. It‘s good for us, good for individuals to come out of the shadows. Everybody wins. And that‘s why this policy has the center supporting it.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about your hopes as an American for the fact we can have a secure I.D. card in this country. Where do you stand on that principle?

SPITZER: I have no fundamental problem with people having an identification card. In essence, we have one. People either have a Social Security number or a tax ID number or a driver‘s license or a passport; and the very premise of what I am saying right now, the reason we want the million undocumented immigrant whose are in New York, 14 million in the nation, a million here in New York state, we want them to be visible. We don‘t want people living in the shadows. We don‘t want people to have a presence we don‘t know about. That‘s why the very predicate of my security argument has been let us know who is here. If that is what an I.D. card does—yes, I know there are going to be some on either end, the libertarians and perhaps the ACLU as well will disagree with it. Knowing who is here is a legitimate argument. As somebody said, privacy does not necessarily mean anonymity. I think in this day and age, having some identification is not an unwarranted position.

MATTHEWS: Well said. One last thought; these I.D. cards—not the I.D. cards, but the limited driver‘s license you‘re proposing for people without documentation, are you sure those cards, those driver‘s licenses you‘re talking about issuing, will not be used for any other purpose than driving a car?

SPITZER: It depends on what you mean any other purpose. If it gives somebody‘s age and they need to to prove they‘re old enough to get a drink, I suppose it could be used for that. But if you‘re talking about getting on an airplane, absolutely not. That is the critical differentiation between a document that satisfies Real I.D. and one that does not.

MATTHEWS: They will not be able to use them to establish a paper trail to begin developing a facsimile of legality?

SPITZER: No, they will not be what we call breeder documents. That is a term that some of us who have studied this have gotten to know. It will not be the basis for then subsequent documents that can then circle back so you could then get a federal I.D., a real I.D. documentation.

MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Governor Eliot Spitzer. Thank you for coming on HARDBALL tonight.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

I noticed that the question wasn't asked if these driver's licenses can be used as I.D. to vote with. That would be an important issue to me.

Also, since law enforecment is forbidden to ask a person's legal status in this country only if connected to a serious crime, what happens when they are stopped for a traffic violation? That type of driver's license would automatically tell law enforcement that they are here legally. Is law enforcement going to be forbidden to report them to ICE? If not, why not?

Anonymous said...

I meant to say that, that type of driver's license would automatically tell law enforcement that they are here illegally, not legally.

Dee said...

Anonymous, I am concerned about you. Have you voted in a National Election? You know of course that you have to be a registered voter. In order to validate this, when you go to the poll, they have a list of registered voters. It is not the DL that registers you. It is the registration process. Once you, as a CITIZEN are registered, you are asked to produce identification and they MATCH the identification with the REGISTRATION documentation. You know this, don´t you?

Dee said...

one more sentence to help you:

You MUST know the DL will NOT register you!

Liquidmicro said...

What of the Motor-Voter Law brought in during Bill's reign as President, Voter Registration is given out at the time of re-newing a drivers license or at the time of obtaining a drivers license. Voter fraud is a big issue if "Illegals" are given a drivers license. Besides, most have virtually no experience behind a wheel of a car, and those that do, usually have an International License that they drive, register, and insure a vehicle here in the states legally with.

But of course you already knew all of this right, Dee??!!

Dee said...

Liquid, Did you read the National Voter Registration Act of 1993?

Please Read:
The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (1995), requires state governments to provide uniform registration services through drivers' license registration centers, disability centers, schools, libraries, and mail-in registration.

When you register for a DL or through this process, you have to prove who you are. Illegal Immigrants cannot register to Vote. Read what the Governor said.

This is not a license to vote. It is a license to DRIVE.

Have you gone to a DMV? Do you understand the identification requirements?

Don´t deflect the issue.

As I said, you have to REGISTER to VOTE and Registration requires CITIZENSHIP Validation! Period!!

Anonymous said...

Whats to prevent an illegal alien from registering to vote? Word is that some already do and they do vote. In many states all one has to do is show their driver's license or even just a utility bill with a current address to actually vote when going to the polls.

No need to tell me that I don't know the requirements of registering to vote and actually voting. I have been a voter for many years now. You are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about.

Liquidmicro said...

Actually it only requires the checking of a box on the voter registration card, which asks: Are you a Citizen of the USA?

Box 6 — ID Number
Federal law requires that states collect from each registrant
an identification number. You must refer to your state's specific instructions for item 6 regarding information
on what number is acceptable for your state. If you have neither a drivers license nor a social security number,
please indicate this on the form and a number will be assigned to you by your state.

Liquidmicro said...

Now show me where Citizenship Validation is required by anything other than checking a box!!

Anonymous said...

If proof of citenship is not required to get a driver's license and a voter registration form given out at that time, how can illegals be prevented from voting?

I found this under questions about voter registration. No where does it say that you have to show proof of citizenship. Only that you must swear that you are.

If you are registering to vote for the first time, because of a new federal law, the Help America Vote Act of 2002 passed by Congress, if you registered to vote by mail on or after January 1, 2003, you will be required to show identification when you vote for the first time in a federal election since registering by mail in 2003, or you can send in a copy of your identification with your voter registration form.
Acceptable identification must include your name and the address at which you are registered to vote, for example: a current and valid driver’s license, photo identification, current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document showing your name and address.

Note: nothing about proof of citizenship.

Dee said...

Anon,
The only "word" comes from ANTI websites. All Bogus!!

Dee said...

Here´s what it takes in TX to obtain a new license if you are from out of country or out of state:

New residents from out-of-country:

Proof of Identity. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.24.

Proof of Social Security Number. (If you do not have a Social Security Number, you will need to complete a Social Security Affidavit (DL-13) form.) 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.42, Texas Transportation Code 521.044.

Proof of Texas vehicle registration and liability insurance, if you own a vehicle. Texas Transportation Code 521.143.

Complete required forms available at any Texas Driver License office.

Pay the required fee. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.40, Texas Transportation Code 521.421.

Pass the written, driving* and vision examinations. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.51, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.52, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.56, Texas Transportation Code 521.161.

Application must include photograph and thumbprints; however, thumbprints are not included on the driver license. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.44, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.45, Texas Transportation Code 521.142.

This is just to obtain DL.

Dee said...

And, the Governor has clearly stated:
We‘re creating two licenses. Each is equally valid. One of them complies with the federal security statute REAL I.D. One of them does not, and will merely be differentiated by saying “not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

What do you NOT understand about:
“not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

THIS MEANS NO VOTING!!

(hello!!)

Liquidmicro said...

6. ID Number. You must provide your driver’s license number to register to vote. If you do not have a driver’s license then you will have to provide at least the last four digits of your social security number. If you have neither, please write “NONE” on the form. A unique identifying number will instead be assigned to you by your State.

And this is for Texas directly from the Link I provided for Voter Registration. Note that last sentence.


Either you are truly naive Dee, or you are just plain IGNORANT. If you believe everything Spitzer is 'spitting' without seeing anything beyond, then there really is no hope for you.

ALBANY - Once they got driver's licenses under Gov. Spitzer's plan, illegal immigrants could arm themselves to the teeth simply by lying about their status, gun experts said Thursday.

"They could definitely get shotguns and rifles," said Thomas King, executive director of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association.

King said illegal immigrants could simply go to gun shops, use the licenses as ID, pick out the long guns of their choice and attest on Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives forms that they are citizens or legal residents.

As long as a computer check showed the customer had no criminal record or outstanding arrest warrants, the gun dealer would likely complete the sale - because there are no other records that would flag illegal immigrants.

Liquidmicro said...

Spitzer aides called such a scenario highly unlikely. If illegal immigrants wanted a gun, they'd more likely buy them on the streets, they reasoned.

Sheriff Michael Amato, vice president of the New York State Sheriffs' Association, said Swarts didn't misspeak.

Amato said he feared members of terrorist sleeper cells will exploit Spitzer's license program to get rifles because penalties for fraud would not be enough to discourage lying.

"This doesn't make us more secure," Amato said, rejecting one of Spitzer's central arguments.

Dee said...

Let´s see, believe an honest Governor or believe a Liquid ANTI who says "believe me and no one else." Hmmm I wonder who I will choose.

Dee said...

First of all Liquid, what don´t you understand about the criteria just to obtain a Driver´s license:

New residents from out-of-country:

Proof of Identity. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.24.

Proof of Social Security Number. (If you do not have a Social Security Number, you will need to complete a Social Security Affidavit (DL-13) form.) 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.42, Texas Transportation Code 521.044.

Proof of Texas vehicle registration and liability insurance, if you own a vehicle. Texas Transportation Code 521.143.

Complete required forms available at any Texas Driver License office.

Pay the required fee. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.40, Texas Transportation Code 521.421.

Pass the written, driving* and vision examinations. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.51, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.52, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.56, Texas Transportation Code 521.161.

Application must include photograph and thumbprints; however, thumbprints are not included on the driver license. 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.44, 37 Texas Administrative Code 15.45, Texas Transportation Code 521.142.

This is just to obtain DL.

Dee said...

Then, what is it YOU don´t understand out of Spitzer´s statement:

We‘re creating two licenses. Each is equally valid. One of them complies with the federal security statute REAL I.D. One of them does not, and will merely be differentiated by saying “not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

What do you NOT understand about:
“not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

THIS MEANS NO VOTING!!

Dee said...

Then you quote Joe Mahoney, the flaming ANTI from New York Daily News and expect anything credible from him? Come on!!

Dee said...

Liquid, Your problem is you choose to live in a land of denial. The Administration, Business nor Economists support Mass Deportation and do not want to have any means of identification for the 12M here.

Duplicitious behavior!

Liquidmicro said...

We are talking about NY not Texas.

Spitzer’s latest pitch is for a three-tiered approach to the state driver’s license system.

* One level would provide licenses for illegal immigrants and others.

* A second level would allow access to federal buildings and airplanes. It would not be available to illegal immigrants.

* A third, most-secure level would be an “enhanced” driver’s license that could be used to cross the Canadian border.


So much for your researching anything.

Liquidmicro said...

Lieutenant Governor Weighs in on Drivers License Plan
Scott Cook
October 30, 2007
7:00pm

Why would someone who's in this country illegally - an undocumented immigrant - want to apply for a drivers license, and in affect document his or her presence in the United States?
We put that question to New York Lieutenant Governor David Paterson. Paterson answered our questions about Governor Eliot Spitzer's unpopular plan to give drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants.
Paterson says Spitzer's plan isn't aimed at people who snuck into the U.S. Rather, it's gearted toward those who came to the country legally and overstayed their legal welcome.
"The reason they would be seeking licenses is to establish conduct and transparency for their actions, hoping one day they might get to become a citizen," says Paterson.
Paterson says the governor's plan doesn't threaten homeland security, but it will make New York's roads safer and bring down insurance costs.

Liquidmicro said...

Dee said...

Then you quote Joe Mahoney, the flaming ANTI from New York Daily News and expect anything credible from him? Come on!!

November 2, 2007 6:25 PM

You discredit the writer, because you cant discredit the FACTS of Sheriff Michael Amato, vice president of the New York State Sheriffs' Association, or "They could definitely get shotguns and rifles," said Thomas King, executive director of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association.

Truly IGNORANT, Dee.

Dee said...

What is truly ignorant is you do not read what the governor said.

the Governor has clearly stated:
We‘re creating two licenses. Each is equally valid. One of them complies with the federal security statute REAL I.D. One of them does not, and will merely be differentiated by saying “not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

What do you NOT understand about:
“not good for federal I.D. purposes.”

THIS MEANS NO VOTING!!


In addition, for NY
With the increase in requirements for public security, the DMV frequently updates the list of acceptable proofs of identity and date of birth. Carefully read the requirements described on this page. Make sure that you have the proof required before you apply for any DMV document.

If you apply for a driver license, a learner permit or a new non-driver photo ID card, and:

If you do not have a NYS driver license or or a NYS learner permit that is now valid or that was valid in the last two years, you must show proof of identity that equals a value of six points, your proof of date of birth and your Social Security Card (see Note 1).
If you do have a NYS driver license or a NYS learner permit that is now valid or that was valid during the last 2 years, you must only show proof of identity that equals a value of six points. You are not required to show your proof of date of birth or your Social Security Card.
See the list of proofs and their point values. One or more of your proofs must have your signature. Each document must be an original document or a copy of the original document certified by the issuing agency. You cannot use more than one document of a specific type for points. For example, three credits cards do not equal three points. They equal one point. The DMV does not accept any document with any alteration. The DMV can confiscate altered documents and keep the documents for evaluation. The DMV will keep any document that appears fraudulent and can seek criminal prosecution against the person who used the document.

Dee said...

Are you just argumentative, refusing to listen or are you just in denial. In either case, shame on you.

Liquidmicro said...

The only person here not listening Dee, is YOU. I took what I posted from Editorial: Governor’s license plan still flawed
Nov 02, 2007 @ 12:02 AM

DATED TODAY for a 3 tier approach. You are so locked on your IGNORANCE i have to DUMB THINGS DOWN FOR YOU, just so you might open your ears and listen to what is being said by many people.

You fail in seeing anything beyond what the Spitzer is advocating, you fail to see anything else that may come out of it, unintended consequences.

Dee said...

I am glad you admitted it was an EDITORIAL!

(fyi: Editorial: an article in a newspaper or other periodical presenting the OPINION of the publisher, editor, or editors)

Dee said...

HOW NOT TO WIN AN ARGUMENT: Use the words DUMB DOWN!

This is surely a sign of desperation at the loss of an argument!

Liquidmicro said...

Spitzer's plan, announced over the weekend with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, would offer a basic license to citizens and immigrants without social security numbers, but it would be stamped with a warning that it could not be used for federal identification purposes. New Yorkers who are U.S. Citizens would be able to get more secure licenses, which meet the requirements of the new federal Real ID Act, and could use them for boarding planes. A third version of the license could be obtained by those with social security numbers and used for border crossings into Canada.

Everything I read is about a 3 tier system of which I posted the license above.

Liquidmicro said...

Actually it was used to get your attention, to LISTEN. Instead of Peeing into the wind, stop and turn around, it keeps you from getting to wet.

liquidmicro said...

News 10

Tedisco will file suit to stop license plan
Updated: 10/31/2007 8:46 PM
By: Britt Godshalk



ALBANY, N.Y. -- They tried yelling. They tried voting.
All to get the governor to back down on his licenses for illegal immigrants plan.

No tricks this Halloween. But this time, Tedisco says he and some of his Republican colleagues in the Assembly have a treat for the governor; by way of a lawsuit.

“After these papers are filed in the Supreme Court tomorrow morning they will be filed with the State's Attorney and the governor's attorney,” said Tedisco.

Tedisco agrees the governor has compromised in recent weeks, pointing to his support of the Real ID act which requires the state meets certain minimum security standards when issuing licenses.


WATCH THE VIDEO
More Information

Tedisco sues to stop guv's plan

They tried yelling. They tried voting. All to get the Governor to back down on his licenses for illegal immigrants plan.






“He was wrong once again though to, I’ll say, create a smoke and mirrors or fog situation to distort the truth when he tried to suggest that our homeland security supported his third tier of providing illegally aliens with drivers’ licenses.”

The Homeland Security Director has since said that he in fact disagrees with giving licenses to illegal immigrants

What's worse, Tedisco says, is the governor's attempts to make a law disappear. A law that requires a social security number to obtain a license.

“It's not a regulation, it's not a stipulation it's not a guideline,” Tedisco said,” It's a law we put in place, voted in 1995, many of us that are here now voted for that law, put it in place.
We believe the governor has unilaterally overstepped his boundaries as an executive, as a governor.”

ultima said...

What is it you need to present to register and how easily is it forged?

Anon makes a good point. If the license specifies the visa expiration date or is prima facie evidence of illegal presence, then this would be a great opportunity for the cops to show some cooperation with ICE to help solve the problem.

Obviously Spitzer doesn't have this in mind because no one would want such a document on their person if would incriminate them to a cooperative law enforcement agency.
Spitzer doesn't just want to bring them out of the shadows he wants to be able to assure them that they will not be bothered by state and local authorities. Shame on him!

What good does it do us to know who they are and where they are if we are not prepared to do anything about it? Spitzer can fools some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

ultima said...

"ou MUST know the DL will NOT register you!"

Why stop there? Why don't you display your vast store of knowledge on this subject and tell us what the ID requirements are to register in each of the 50 states. And plunging a little deeper tell us how easy or difficult you think it is to obtain fraudulent documents of that sort in each of the 50 states?

ultima said...

You have told us more than we ever wanted to know about where to go to register and precious little about the IDs required and how easily they might be forged. Let's post an ICE agent with staff at registration locations to check IDs, SSNs, etc.

ultima said...

"Let´s see, believe an honest Governor" and you know this how?

Hardly any politicians are honest.

Dee said...

Tedisco is your typical flaming ANTI. I cannot believe he made such a xxx statement to the PRO supporters who are Hispanic Citizens:

ALBANY - Assembly Minority Leader James Tedisco was accused of striking a low blow at Latinos Monday after suggesting those demanding driver's licenses for illegal aliens won't be happy unless they get "the whole enchilada."

Shame on Him!!
We know his agenda!

He is trying to get his 15 minutes, showing up on Dobbs and making so many false claims!
This is his bid for power, plain and simple!

Dee said...

Ultima, Et Tu?
Have you not voted recently? Have you not registered?

You do not go into a voting center and give them fake ID. You have to be registered. You have to be on the list. You must show valid Driver´s License, not the limited DL for the illegal immigrants.

Additionally, this whole ANTI move is purely politically motivated. This policy is already in effect in several states!

Anonymous said...

But you don't have to show proof of citizenship when you register to vote and that is the kicker!

Dee said...

Anon, You have to register. In order to register, you have to be a citizen.

Liquidmicro said...

You obviously didn't go to the link I provided for Voter Registration, did you Dee. All you need to do is print it out, fill it out, and mail it in. Nothing requiring anything, all done by the person filling it out using his/hers scruples. One simple question on it asking: Are you a Citizen of the USA? Check box yes/no.

Anybody can fill it out and send it in and be registered to vote.

Liquidmicro said...

Don't forget Election Day Registration and Voting. One only has to testify to never voting before, and not being registered, some states do require ID, while others do not. CA had a problem with that in the past in LA, almost 800 'Illegal Immigrant' voters voted after receiving driving certificates.

Anonymous said...

No, you don't have to show proof of citizenship to register to vote. You only have to swear that you are.

Dee said...

Liquid, I think you are losing it. When you send in any application to anything the process is not complete when you check the boxes and fill out the forms. How silly of you. These form applications are for citizens and as you apply the information is validated before you receive anything.

If you believe anyone could receive a registration card by filling out the card, then your whole argument against the NY DL is BOGUS BOGUS BOGUS, because if the ulterior motive was to get a registration card and all you have to do is fill out the card, then who cares about the NY DL.

You just lost your own argument for yourself. Silly, silly argument.

Liquidmicro said...

The registration cards I linked to online, all you have to do is fill it out. Follow the instructions. Its not hard to do, anybody can do it. Its on the honor system. Some states say that if you don't have a DL or a SS, they will assign you a number. How hard is that?

What about Registering and Voting the same day, same thing. You don't have to show ID to vote in many states. My god, open your eyes.

Dee said...

Liquid, Liquid,
You are losing it.
So you say the postcard national voter registration is corrupt ( I don´t agree) but that is what you say.

This has NOTHING to do with NY DL policy (which has been approved in several other states).

Liquidmicro said...

4 states out of 50 are in compliance with Real ID now with NY's proposed Real ID license, don't make it out like its some huge thing.

Liquidmicro said...

The Real ID Act (HR418), was introduced in January 2005. It sought to bar all states from issuing driver's licenses to people who cannot prove they are in the U.S. legally. The House voted 261-161 to approve the bill on February 10. President Bush endorsed the act in February. Congress passed the act in April 2005. In March, Republicans in Congress also added immigration-related provisions to the $81.3 billion War Spending Bill. One of the measures would set federal standards for driver's licenses, forbidding states from issuing them to illegal immigrants.

Other provisions would create tighter restrictions on gaining asylum in the United States and complete a 3 1/2-mile section of the fence on the U.S.-Mexico border near San Diego. The War Spending Bill passed the House of Representatives on May 5, 2005.

Many states, however, are currently exploring linking immigration status to expiration dates on driver's licenses. In July, 2004, Tennessee passed a law that issues "driving certificates" to individuals who do not meet U.S. citizenship or permanent residency requirements but who can provide some proof of residency in the state. The driving certificates expire in one year for those who cannot prove they are U.S. citizens or permanent residents.

Immigrant groups have protested the law, saying the new certificate encourages racial profiling. In addition, Tennessee state agencies are not consistently applying the law when issuing driving citations.(since abandoned)

Florida also attempted to issue licenses to undocumented immigrants but the attempt was abandoned after resistance from Florida law enforcement agencies.

Liquidmicro said...

Exclusive: Expert Says There Is No Data To Defend Spitzer's License Plan

More LIES from the SPITZER, keep on praising him Dee, keep on.

Dee said...

You sure like to misrepresent data.

The good Governor was talking about licensing drivers who were unlicensed. Then he related this to the fact undocumented are unlicensed.

Here is what Scopath said in his report, "Unlicensed to Kill":
"They're by far overrepresented in comparison to their numbers in the driving population," said Robert Scopatz, a traffic safety expert who also prepared two lengthy studies on unlicensed drivers for the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, "Unlicensed to Kill." "They're basically having these crashes at a rate that is at least double." Scopatz's research found that during most of the 1990s, for example, unlicensed drivers accounted for 5 percent to 10 percent of the driving population, but nearly 20 percent of the fatal accidents."

Dee said...

Obviously those quoting Scopath are not reading his reports:

From Scopath´s report "License to Kill2"

. California’s experts on DWS and DWR and unlicensed drivers believe that the system, as it exists now, has too many incentives for not obtaining a license or reinstating
one after a suspension. Unlicensed drivers are often doing so because they are undocumented
aliens and/or because they cannot afford to meet the insurance requirements. Insurance costs are the reason most often cited for a driver’s failure to reinstate his or her license after a suspension.

Liquidmicro said...

Governor Eliot Spitzer has cited a AAA report showing that those driving without a license are more dangerous to fellow motorist, as a defense for his driver’s license plan.

"AAA found that, unsurprisingly, unlicensed drivers are more likely to be involved in hit-and-run accidents and five times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident than licensed drivers,” said Spitzer on October 19.

Liquidmicro said...

"I want to be clear -- there's no data for either side,” said Scopatz. “There's no data that says it'd be more safe, and there's no data that says it'd be less safe. And the argument has been made both ways."


Spitzer does the same as you do Dee, tries to use something that doesn't represent his outcome to SACRE the public into submission for what he believes to be the right thing to do. Only problem is that it doesn't work.

Dee said...

Liquid, This is a bogus artice by NY1. Thank you for bringing it. I devoted an entire post to it and also wrote to the NY1 editor and wrote to FreeRepublic about it.

patriot said...

Bottom line and nothing else counts anyway is that illegal aliens are here illegally so they shouldn't be given legal documents for anything in this country.

All other arguments are null and void based on that.

Dee said...

Many disagree with you Pat.
Since no one in congress is advocating mass deportation, they need to have a license to drive.

patriot said...

You don't need to tell me that we have traitors in congress and pro-illegal ethnocentrics as you in this country. Fortunately, you and they are the minority in this country. Law abiding Americans are still the majority and that is why you didn't get your Dream Act, Comprehensive Immigration Reform and you won't get amnesty through any AG bill either. The majority have spoken!

Dee said...

We need Comprehensive Immigration Reform Pat. Our side is the majority and we are looking for solutions.

Your side is not looking for solutions and cannot see past your red faced anger. The only thing you are good at is mass emails, faxes and form letters. The American People are catching on to your tactics and Congress will not succumb to your tactics much longer.

patriot said...

No, the pro side is not the majority! Can't you read the polls? Don't you know why the Dream Act failed and why no so-called Comprehensive Immigration Reform failed? Senator Feinstein withdrew her attempt to pull an Ag jobs amnesty also because she knew she didn't have the votes she needed. How does failure add up to success for you?

Myself and Ultima and others have already given you our solutions. You just don't like them but to say we haven't presented any is a lie.

Of course we are angry. Is that odd to you? Americans should be angry that our borders have been so insecure that millions of illegals have gotten into our country and stolen jobs and our taxes from us. Why doesn't that make you angry is my question. What kind of an American wouldn't be?

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