This week, my sister visited me. She decided to take a bus here from San Antonio. She took a different bus line (vs Greyhound) She emailed me the address to the Bus Station however it was the wrong address. I mapsco´d it. I drove to the wrong address and I wound up smack dab in the middle of “Amexico.” (As some ANTIs would term it.)I had never been to this part of Dallas before. All the colorful shops had signs and music in Spanish. When I stopped and asked for directions, all the store employees spoke Spanish, not English. This section of town reminded me of my visits to Tijuana or Piedras Negras, Mexico. Not traditional Mexico, but not the USA either, focused on sell, sell, sell to the new arrivals.
I eventually found a young man who spoke Spanglish and he sent me to the right address. It was about 40 blocks away.
Getting lost got me thinking. This section of town was very different than my suburb or San Antonio. San Antonio, southside, is an older section of town. Many people call it the Mexican section, however, there is a big difference between Southside SA and the Dallas section I visited. Sure it is colorful and musical, but South San Antonio is primarily comprised of Mexican Americans. Everyone speaks English and Spanish. The store signs are in English with some Spanish. The Mexican restaurants are Tex-Mex, not old Mexico (I don´t like the taste of old Mexico food) . In South SA, the teenagers listen to Rap Music, pants hang low, cell phone and Ipod in hand, just like other American teenagers.
In the Dallas section of town, it was clear, these folks were recent arrivals, at least within the last 10 years. They were very poor, not the long timers of the USA. I am not sure they were Mexican. They may have been Central or South Americans, very new arrivals. Now don´t get me wrong. I have been to similar sections of town in other cities, just not in Dallas.
When I asked for directions, it seemed to me they were shying away from me acting as if I was the alien or perhaps La Migre.
I can easily tell the difference between Mexican Americans and new arrivals from south of the border. Mexican Americans are very much American. We talk loud. We swagger a bit. We talk with our hands. Our women are very outspoken, almost cocky, not at all shy. In other words, WE ARE JUST LIKE YOU! ASSIMILATED!! My old friend Lupita would laugh at me for saying all this. She always said I was a Gringo.
Since this happened last Tuesday, I have been thinking about this every day. Please allow me to explain the immigration issue keeping this "enclave view" in mind.
Since Reagan´s so called Amnesty, we have had an extremely high rate of illegal immigration, particularly over the last 10 years. Obviously the immigration laws have gone unenforced. We went from 3M to 12M in that time. I believe these numbers.
It is AMERICAN MERCHANTS who have set up these little enclaves to cater to the new arrivals. Don´t kid yourself and think these business owners are illegal immigrants. These mini enclaves are polka dotted throughout many cities.
These Enclaves are totally different than the Hispanic American neighborhoods many of us are accustomed to. We have towns like Miami, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, San Diego and LA. They are populated with our 40M Hispanic legal citizens of all ethnicities (e.g. Mexican American, Cuban American, Puerto Rican, etc.)
The problem most ANTIs have is, they see these enclaves and they mix them up and combine them with the traditional Hispanic neighborhoods and believe them to be the same. They are not.
When the ANTIs confuse the two and confront citizens angrily (as some do) the Hispanic citizens react and become angry as well. That is where the majority of the disagreements between ANTI and PRO is based.
If we are serious about resolving Immigration issues or illegal immigration, we do need to stop the anger and begin real discussion and develop some agreed upon form of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR).
CIR should include:
1. Secure Borders. New illegal immigration stops and there is no longer a need for these growing enclaves.
2. Employer Sanctions
3. Bring the 12M out of the shadows and assist in their assimilation (Enhanced Assimilation)
Reduced New Immigration (legal and illegal)
Let´s all stop the anger and discuss this civilly. We can make a difference.
Posts
86 comments:
Why do you have a problem with Americans being angry about this invasion of our nation? It is justified anger. Being angry doesn't mean that we can't seek solutions. I have seen just as much anger on the pro side of this issue. So knock it off! Anger doesn't stop solutions from happening. You are just trying to soften up the anti's to get your way. Ain't gonna happen.
"When the ANTIs confuse the two and confront citizens angrily (as some do) the Hispanic citizens react and become angry as well. That is where the majority of the disagreements between ANTI and PRO is based."
No Dee, you are finally understanding and having seen these areas, now you know what the ANTI's have been talking about. The only person mixing the neighborhoods up is you. The only person relating the 'Illegals' with citizens has been you. You finally opened your eyes th what the rest of us have been talking about. Now maybe you can quit the "we have been here" lines, nobody has ever doubted that about you.
Some cities 'enclaves' are much larger in area, much more down trodden, much more secluded, etc... almost every city in every state now has an area like this.
Your idea of American Merchants setting up these enclaves, should state that it is American Citizens that own the buildings that these enclaves are working from, as the business owners themselves are and can be "Illegal Immigrants" themselves, or legal residents/citizens that are catering to the newly arrived from out of country.
Pat, Your anger is misdirected at all Hispanic Americans. Face it!! Stop this and address the specific issues. The 12M are here, invited by Big Business. We can secure the borders. We can bring the 12M out of the shadows. We can limit future immigration of all forms. Lets give CIR a chance.
You know where you are missing it Liquid? You are missing it when you have Tom Tancredo call Miami a "3rd World Country." They are citizens.
You miss it when ANTIs on a number of ANTI sites call Puerto Rican neighborhoods 3rd World.
You miss it when you call California - Mexifornia or Texas - Mexus.
No. We are not. San Antonio´s southside is primarily Mexican AMERICAN. We have been here for hundreds of years.
Stop confusing the two.
And, ADMIT those enclaves are owned by CITIZENS. The illegal immigrants do not create them.
Liquid, I was willing to compromise. Why don´t you?
You are living in a fantasy world if you believe the cell phone stores, the western union stores, high interest car sales, etc etc are owned and run by illegal immigrants.
Get Real!!
These are CITIZENS who own and run these businesses. They too are exploiting them!!
Also, know and understand, we have poverty in our country. We have many minority citizens living in poverty. This ranges from citizens who are Hispanic, to African American, to Native American, to Asian American, to the European Trailer Parks, Neighborhoods in Tennessee, etc.
Do not confuse any of our Poor American neighborhoods that may be ethnocentric groups of Citizens with illegal immigrants. I have read many ANTI sites that do this, particularly for Puerto Ricans, Cuban Americans and Mexican Americans.
You want me to compromise, OK..
1) Secure the border.
2) Fine employers who have hired 'Illegal Immigrants' whether knowingly or not.
3) End birthright citizenship and require 1 parent be a legal citizen.
4) End all sub-sidies to business/corporations/farmers.
5) End all lobbying in congress, no more purse strings from corporations.
6) No more federal/state monies given to charities/non-profits, or organizations.
7) Require all banking/savings/loan facilities to require authentic SS cards, no more ITIN #'s, verified drivers license, verified work history, verified tax info from IRS and States.
8) All states require the same documentation and laws.
9) All law enforcement agencies to have 287(g) training and are authorized to detain 'Illegal Immigrants'.
10) Illegal Immigrants caught and detained have no rights, unless they have been exploited by an employer, for which the employer shall then be held liable for all costs, pay, back pay, travel, detention, and all court costs, until such time as the "illegal" is repatriated.
11) Illegals caught for criminal offenses shall be held in jail/prison working to re-pay all debts that they have caused/created to the plaintiff, to be paid at minimum wage minus costs of living.
12) All children of 'Illegal Immigrants', whether here as 'illegal' or born here, that are caught and deported are the responsibility of the parents if under the age of 18, and will go with the parents at time of departure.
I can go on, but you get the main idea I would hope.
Where is the compromise?
dee, my anger isn't directed at Hispanic citizens unless they are supporting illegal aliens. If they stand by their fellow American citizens and support our laws instead, I feel absolutely no anger towards them.
What you don't get is that big business had no "right" to "invite" them here therefore I don't support them or the illegals.
They can come out of the shadows and go back home, period. Wait in line like everyone else unless you think they should be treated special for some reason. I don't think so. There are people waiting to come here legally and they should get first dibs.
Dee said...
You are living in a fantasy world if you believe the cell phone stores, the western union stores, high interest car sales, etc etc are owned and run by illegal immigrants.
Get Real!!
These are CITIZENS who own and run these businesses. They too are exploiting them!!
November 10, 2007 5:20 PM
Actually Dee, you are ignorant on the matter, as "illegal Immigrants" can and do own these businesses. It only takes a picture ID to obtain a business license and abut $20 for the filing cost. Illegals can and do obtain ITIN #'s, which are supposed to be used for businesses. "Illegals" can also purchase and own properties throughout our nation.
So go back and comprehend what I stated earlier: "Your idea of American Merchants setting up these enclaves, should state that it is American Citizens that own the buildings that these enclaves are working from, as the business owners themselves are and can be "Illegal Immigrants" themselves, or legal residents/citizens that are catering to the newly arrived from out of country."
Dee said...
You know where you are missing it Liquid? You are missing it when you have Tom Tancredo call Miami a "3rd World Country." They are citizens.
You miss it when ANTIs on a number of ANTI sites call Puerto Rican neighborhoods 3rd World.
You miss it when you call California - Mexifornia or Texas - Mexus.
No. We are not. San Antonio´s southside is primarily Mexican AMERICAN. We have been here for hundreds of years.
Stop confusing the two.
And, ADMIT those enclaves are owned by CITIZENS. The illegal immigrants do not create them.
November 10, 2007 5:18 PM
The old 'Guilty by Association' ploy... sorry, doesn't work for me.
Dee said...
Also, know and understand, we have poverty in our country. We have many minority citizens living in poverty. This ranges from citizens who are Hispanic, to African American, to Native American, to Asian American, to the European Trailer Parks, Neighborhoods in Tennessee, etc.
Do not confuse any of our Poor American neighborhoods that may be ethnocentric groups of Citizens with illegal immigrants. I have read many ANTI sites that do this, particularly for Puerto Ricans, Cuban Americans and Mexican Americans.
November 10, 2007 5:24 PM
Sorry again, I haven't confused any of it at any time, you just finally saw what a lot of people have been talking about.
You want to discuss things, yet all ANTI's are 'Guilty by Association' to you, thus limiting any conversation that may come about.
BS, dee many of these enclaves and ethnic businesses are created by and pander to illegal aliens.
Liquid,
Prove it.
Prove Illegal Immigrants own these businesses. You cannot because US Citizens own them.
Come on. Western Union? Car Sales? Cell Phones.
Prove it Liquid. You are living in a self made fantasy world.
I have seen many articles about Citizens in sweep areas that said they are citizens who own these businesses and are opposed to the sweeps. I´ve posted them. The articles I posted were by grocery store owners and restaurants. I remember seeing a video posted by someone else for a Restaurant run by a Citizen in one of these sweep areas.
I will repeat. CITIZENS RUN AND OWN the VAST MAJORITY OF THESE BUSINESSES.
Liquid,
Tancredo - "Miami is a 3rd world country."
Cuban Americans are CITIZENS!!
Case Closed!!
You wish to discuss the topic of your story, then accept the fact that what I have stated is true about 'Illegal Immigrants' being able to purchase property and start businesses, and discuss what can be done to either better these enclaves (getting rid of the 3rd world appearance of some of these cities and/or parts of these cities) turning them into updated buildings and businesses, or get rid of them all together and tear the buildings down.
If you wish to discuss, then discuss, but quit with all the 'Guilty by Association' crap. Discuss what you think should and can be done with these enclaves, and quit getting so 'ANGRY' and 'RED FACED' over someones difference of opinion.
Dee said...
Liquid,
Prove it.
Prove Illegal Immigrants own these businesses. You cannot because US Citizens own them.
Come on. Western Union? Car Sales? Cell Phones.
Prove it Liquid. You are living in a self made fantasy world.
November 10, 2007 6:27 PM
How about YOU prove that they are owned by CITIZENS!!
I never denied that citizens own some of these businesses, I stated: Your idea of American Merchants setting up these enclaves, should state that it is American Citizens that own the buildings that these enclaves are working from, as the business owners themselves are and CAN BE "Illegal Immigrants" themselves, OR legal residents/citizens that are catering to the newly arrived from out of country.
So either you don't know how to read English or your comprehension skills are that of a 4 year old.
Liquid, Agree to this.
No one agrees to mass deportation.
1. Agree to a certain number of the 12M for Guest Worker Status.
2. Agree to an Assimilation Mentoring program by citizens.
I am compromising a long way, even agreeing to reduced Immigration levels. (Of course Border Security and Employer Sanctions)
Will you agree to this much?
Come on Liquid. Compromise!!
Dee said...
Liquid,
Tancredo - "Miami is a 3rd world country."
Cuban Americans are CITIZENS!!
Case Closed!!
November 10, 2007 6:31 PM
More, GUILT BY ASSOCIATION!!! All you can read is the headline, here are his exact words: “Late last year, the U.S. Department of Justice called South Florida the ''public corruption capital of the nation.'' In the 10-year period 1996-2005, 576 individuals were prosecuted on public corruption charges in South Florida.
There has always been some corruption in every large city, but the difference is that in a Third World country, corruption is a way of life. It is a routine way of doing business. In America by contrast, when payoffs and kickbacks are uncovered it is a scandal and someone is thrown out of office. Is corruption becoming a way of life in Miami?”
Your #1). The 12 - 20 M 'Illegals' here now should go down and file for visas for which they qualify. Employers should accept the fact that they will be paying all costs for these visas, Health Insurance, additional taxes to cover schooling for the children of these 'Illegals' if they are requiring there labor. Work visas should be granted for 2 years, renewed for an additional 2 years, and then they must leave the country. They can not re-apply for 4 years, to allow others the opportunity to come. If they are caught after the 4 year term, here illegally, they will be denied re-entry for life.
Your #2) No assimilation mentoring needed for guest workers, but they should be required to attend a mini-college and the employer should pay for the teachers, for them to learn American History, Economics, English, Math.
Liquid,
Bogus, bogus, bogus!
Side step the issue as much as you want!
Even Ulty says Tancredo is Johnny One Note with Illegal Immigration.
Tancredo Johnny One Note said, "
ethnically diverse city of Miami resembled "a Third World country."
These are CITIZENS!!! It is because they are Hispanic he is saying 3rd world!! Shame on him! Even Jeff Bush critized him for his RACIST remarks!!
I see no compromise on your part Liquid. Until you (and all like you) are willing to compromise, there will be no resolution.
What do you mean no compromise on my behalf??? Illegals come here to work, they don't want citizenship, so why offer it??? Guest workers are just that, guest workers. Employers are going to pass the costs on to consumers if they choose to use guest workers.
Where am I not compromising???
BTW Liquid.
I am putting together a new blog. It may be out tomorrow. Not sure yet.
I am studying various raids and the detrimental impact to the business, the community and to the illegal immigrants themselves.
In most cases, the businesses initially attempted to hire locals but apparently this work is work Americans won´t do. Those initially hired didn´t stay, even with higher wages. The businesses either went out of business, utilized prison labor or sold. This has been a nightmare for the economy and for the children.
More to come.
From your own article: Tancredo's comment - "You would never know you're in the United States of America. You would certainly say you're in a Third World country."
From Time magazine - (1993) Time magazine story that called Miami the "Capital of Latin America" and said some areas of the city "resemble the Third World, with the homeless and immigrants living under highways or in matchstick houses along canals."
His exact words during a lecture again are: “Late last year, the U.S. Department of Justice called South Florida the ''public corruption capital of the nation.'' In the 10-year period 1996-2005, 576 individuals were prosecuted on public corruption charges in South Florida.
There has always been some corruption in every large city, but the difference is that in a Third World country, corruption is a way of life. It is a routine way of doing business. In America by contrast, when payoffs and kickbacks are uncovered it is a scandal and someone is thrown out of office. Is corruption becoming a way of life in Miami?”
You still only quote the headline, Dee.
"This has been a nightmare for the economy and for the children."
The economy nightmare has been brought about due to Bernanke being an IDIOT!! Credit being to easy to obtain, and ignorance of home buyers.
Businesses should go out of business if all they can hire is Illegal Immigrants, It will benefit those businesses that comply with the laws.
Illegals children harmed??? Parents leaving them behind, just like some of the Illegal men that have children back in there countries of origin, having left the country to come here so they don't have to pay child support for them or to the wifes.
How many times are you going to repeat the same old rhetoric, dee? We already explained to you what Tancredo's remarks meant by saying that parts of Miami resemble a Third World Country. It doesn't matter that these Cuban Americans are citizens. Culturally the city resembles Cuba (a Third World country). If one were to visit parts of many U.S. cities they are filled with citizens who have kept their Third World mentality and culture alive, therefore those neighborhoods and entire cities in some instances do resemble the Third World country that they or their ancestors came from. In otherwords they don't resemble a conventional or traditional American city. You are trying to turn this whole thing into a racist remark when all one can state is what they see with their own eyes. The truth is never racist.
liquid, notice that dee claims to want employer sanctions for hiring illegal aliens but yet cries about the raids. How else does one convict an employer of hiring illegals unless they are raided and proof provided? I guess by employer sanctions she means go the the employer's place of business, nab him but let the illegals continue to work there? She speaks with forked tongue.
Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,
Bernanke is a Genius.
Surely you cannot blame the state fo the economy on him.
Even the nutcase RuPaul who is taking Bernankes name in vain isn´t doing that!!
Pat,
Of course I want employer sanctions for the unscrupulous employers. The issue is, they are not being charged. Instead, they get a low bond then charges are dismissed when no one is looking.
I have not seen serious charges being imposed on an employer.
The worst employer charged to date, Insolia, has not been found guilty or served time. Shame on the system!! The only ones put in Detention Centers so far are the exploited workers!!
dee, but you were opposed to the raids before even knowing what would or wouldn't happen to the employers. Why was that? We will never know the outcome of most of these cases against the employers anyway. Many employers think they have valid I.D. when they hire these workers but they are fake. If the SAVE ACT passes, there will be a better way of checking the validity of employee's papers and employers will be forced to comply. So since you say you want the employers to be sanctioned, you must be in favor of this legislation, right? Oh wait, I guess not because that means your illegals will all be going home within 4 years. Face it dee, you only want the employers dealt with but not the illegals. Once you admit that, you will be on the road to honesty for a change.
"There are only two economic philosophies in America – trickle down and bottom up. Trickle down means the rich get richer and pay less taxes. Supposedly they use their extra income to invest in America, which makes all of us more productive. But it doesn’t work that way. In a global economy, investments don’t trickle down; they trickles out to wherever on the planet the rich can get the highest return. If trickle down worked as advertised inequality wouldn’t be widening so fast."
Bernanke is the "Trickle Down Idiot", out only for the global economy and the corporations, thus the average American loses out.
I live in a small town of 5000 people in Kansas. In the past 10 years we have had approx 600 Hispanics move to this town. Why? Because we have one large employer who moved here about 10 years ago who is hiring illegals for jobs that pay about $8/hr and this employer is Canadian based at that!
We had our first murder in recordable history this year - two Hispanics - and multiple other crimes mainly involving fights, fraud, identity theft or hit and run accidents where they flee the scene of the accident. I have personally seen what appears to be gang members tattooed with the classic MS-13 style tattoos.
Our elementary school is bursting at the seams with ESL learners. School district trying to get funding by increasing taxes to pay for ESL requirements mandated by federal law. Cheap housing is in short supply so we have problems with multiple families living in single family homes. Not unusual to see so many cars at one home, front yards have become driveways.
We had no Hispanic American citizens in this town before the above dramatic change (at least that I am aware of). What has happened here is being played out all across America. And, the people are pissed. They want enforcement and illegals deported.
I'm sorry Dee, this is the way it is and this is why there is such a big problem now. Employers are most definitely to blame. The government is most definitely to blame. The illegals have taken advantage of what was practically handed to them and now expect they should be given amnesty.
Pat and Liquid,
You keep doing this.
You say Miami is a 3rd World Country. (No matter how many ways you want to spin this Liquid, it is the same thing.)
What you are forgetting is, Cuban Americans are CITIZENS. They have nothing to do with illegal immigration. Every time you say an ethnocentric poverty stricken area full of American citizens and lump this into a discussion about Illegal Immigration, as Tancredo Johnny One Note has done so often, this is called Racism. That is the problem. You keep combining them.
I did not. I said there are a few enclaves polka dotted through various communities that have a high rate of illegal immigrants. These enclave businesses are primarily owned by CITIZENS who cater to and often take advantage of the illegal immigrants.
Try to understand the difference.
Dianne, I agree that various businesses, as in your town, have brought in large groups of illegal immigrants to exploit them and underpay them in unsafe conditions. Then cheap and quickly built enclave businesses owned by citizens have been set up to cater to and take advantage of the illegal immigrants.
The businesses, the local politicians, et al look the other way as this is happening.
This happened in the case in New Bedford. Insolia brought in many illegal immigrants from Guatemala, a war torn country. These people thought they were escaping, only to jump from the frying pan into the fire. Insolia exploited them. No breaks. No overtime. Low wages. Slave conditions. Government Contract for backpacks. Insolia has not spent one day in jail as the countless Guatemalan victims were swept away in the middle of the night to deplorable Detention Centers in TX.
It is the business owners and the Administration that are the most at fault, yet they are the least impacted when these sweeps occur.
What an indictment on our entire society!
The answer is CIR.
We have to
1. Secure the Border
2. SEVERELY SANCTION Unscrupulous Employers. (e.g. Insolia should be in Prison instead of walking around free)
3. the 12M should come out of the shadows, register, employers sponsor their employees, guest worker status, fair wages, safe conditions. I would even go so far as to say anyone here over 3 years. Let 3 years be the cap. All others return to country of origin.
4. Limit New Immigration until we identify all here.
5. Assimilation programs: Form grass roots volunteer groups to assist in assimilation. Ask Bill Gates and other billionaires to fund urban study centers filled with computers and other learning tools. This will take the place of ESL programs. This is before and after school and during the summer. Sports programs included. Instead of sponsoring overseas children, sponsor our own American Poor. Those here working become our own. Continue the Dream Act, help students complete College Education.
6. Grass Roots Volunteer Urban Renewal. Adopt a family.
Discontinue Welfare everywhere. Make it Workfare. Jobs programs include Urban Renewal.
Dianne, I was doing a little research on Kansas manufacturing companies that had hired illegal immigrants and workplace sweeps in the past.
This one is interesting:
Marley Cooling Technologies, based in Overland Park, Kansas,
designs and manufactures cooling towers for the power generation,
industrial, refrigeration, and HVAC markets worldwide.
SPX Corporation is a global provider of technical products and
systems, industrial products and services, flow technology and
service solutions.
And this - please notice the date:
11/7/2004 - 44 illegal aliens worked at Marley Cooling Technologies at a nuclear cooling tower factory in Kansas. Those arrested originated from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Kenya and Mexico.
Notice the date of this:
U.S. Department of Labor
Wage and Hour Division
Release Number: 04-2009-KAN
Date:
Fri., Oct. 08, 2004
Contact:
Norma J. Conrad
Phone:
1-866-4-USWAGE
Marley Cooling Technologies Pays More Than $350,000 in Overtime Back Wages Following U.S. Labor Department Investigation.
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Marley Cooling Technologies located in Olathe and Overland Park, Kansas, has paid $354,950 in back wages to 62 employees who were not properly compensated for overtime as required by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). The company is a subsidiary of SPX, Inc., headquartered in Charlotte, N.C.
“Both today’s action and our new Overtime Security rules reflect our commitment to protecting overtime rights,” said Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao. “These employees weren’t receiving their rightful pay, and we are taking action to restore 354,950 to these workers. Overtime rights will be further strengthened by our new Overtime Security rules, which will increase pay protections for millions of workers by updating and clarifying the old regulations.”
First, SPX, who owns Marley Cooling, is a multi national corporation. They have several GOVERNMENT Contracts.
They brought in several Illegal Immigrants from war torn central american countries. They exploited them and did not pay them overtime.
Notice on Oct. 4, 2004, the Dept of Labor asked they pay employees backpay for unpaid overtime.
In less than a month, the workplace sweeps occur and these exploited employees are swept away. How many of these employees were paid their owed overtime?
We can guess!
Insolia, the New Bedford employer who brought in and provided documentation for his illegal immigrant employees primarily from Guatemala, had a Government Contract for backpacs for our troops in Iraq.
What do these incidents have in common?
. Government Contracts
. Illegal Workers from Central American war torn countries, exploited, unsafe conditions, no overtime pay or breaks provided.
. Employer in trouble for exploiting workers (Insolia employees had called to report abusive conditions to DOJ)
. Workplace Sweeps right after the reports
In August, Insolia and two of his deputies were indicted on charges of conspiring to harbor and hire illegal immigrants to fulfill almost $230 million in government contracts.
A final status conference in the case against Insolia, Dilia Costa and Gloria Melo is scheduled Dec. 5. Both sides anticipate a trial, according to documents filed in U.S. District Court in Boston.
If convicted of the charge of conspiring to hire illegal aliens, Insolia, Costa and Melo face maximum sentences of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. On the charge of conspiracy to hire illegal aliens, the three also face months in prison and a $10,000 fine for each illegal alien hired by Bianco.
Looks like Dec. 5 will be D Day for Insolai and others.
Dee said...
Pat and Liquid,
You keep doing this.
You say Miami is a 3rd World Country. (No matter how many ways you want to spin this Liquid, it is the same thing.)
What you are forgetting is, Cuban Americans are CITIZENS. They have nothing to do with illegal immigration. Every time you say an ethnocentric poverty stricken area full of American citizens and lump this into a discussion about Illegal Immigration, as Tancredo Johnny One Note has done so often, this is called Racism. That is the problem. You keep combining them.
What you are failing to comprehend Dee, as usual, is the fact that these are citizens, "some areas of the city resemble the Third World, with the homeless and immigrants living under highways or in matchstick houses along canals."
I think you live in a bubble Dee, do you not see homeless citizens living like this? Here in Sacramento, we just had the city crackdown and tell over 20 homeless families that they had to move there tent city from a property that was owned by the railroad, a local Bail Bonds man, Leanord Padilla, allowed them to move to one of his properties in Notomas. Neighboring home owners are saying it looks like a 3rd world society and are complaining to the city council.
If all you have is the BS RACE card, it doesn't work in this game. Put it back in your deck.
Dee said...
Liquid, Liquid, Liquid,
Bernanke is a Genius.
Surely you cannot blame the state fo the economy on him.
Even the nutcase RuPaul who is taking Bernankes name in vain isn´t doing that!!
November 10, 2007 8:55 PM
Bernanke Starting to Look Dumb
OHHHH, I think Paul, has and is putting Bernanke in his place and calling him out on the economy for which Bernanke is an IDIOT!!!
Liquid,
Of course we have poverty in our country. We have street people. We have beggars at busy corners. But they are all Citizens and you CANNOT confuse the problems we have in our own society with Poverty and Urban blight with Illegal Immigration. Just stop it!!
dee will believe anyone or anything that makes it appear that we need millions and millions of illegal aliens in this country. Even going so far as to calling them a "genius", lol.
Bernanke is not afraid to tell the truth and let the American people know the truth.
We are not like the ANTIs who spin and spin out the answers that will sway their blind followers to their political views.
Dee...interesting articles on Marley. They should have hammered Marley with a huge fine of 10 times what they underpaid the overtime to those people. Marley not only cheated their employees, they cheated the government on the taxes owed on the overtime and they even opened us up to a huge security risk being that they are involved in nuclear power plant building.
I don't remember reading any of this about Marley. Overland Park is not that far from me. I'm going to do some more research.
The only one confusing the problem, Dee, is still you. By your own statements, I, Pat, Diane, Ultima, others are 'Guilty by Association'. You yourself have made yourself 'Guilty by Association' because of your own guilt and feelings towards "Illegal Immigration". However, you inability to rationalize and converse without spouting the same rhetoric and without trying to listen to and understand the other side, you still fail to have any compromise, you still argue that 'Illegal Immigrants' have no guilt in the matter. The guilt lies with our Gov't, Business/Corporations that knowingly hire them, and YES the 'Illegals' themselves. You claim to want to weed out the bad from the good, yet you have mentioned NO method of separating the bad from good. If you can separate the 2 were the bad are repatriated, then you will become a millionaire over night, until then the bad are ruining it for all of them, and the only solution is to repatriate all of them.
Dianne,
Here are the links I referenced:
DOJ News Release
SPX News Release
VDare link to Marley Sweeps
There are more articles, but I think these are the core 3.
Liquid, So you agree Insolia has not served one day. I would venture to say he will not either.
$$ and Government Contracts go a long way!!
Actually, I believe, Dec. 5 is D. DAY for the 3 of them and they will be spending at least 10 years in jail, plus a large sum of monies in fines.
Hopefully this will set a precedent for future businesses and the outcomes they may face if/when they are caught. I also think that this will help with the 'enforcement through attrition' as "illegals" will either be laid off from work or businesses will release them all together.
Liquid, My, you are rambling today.
I have cited example after example, url after url, which illustrate the logic behind my perspective. It is you who uses the same rhetoric, Mass Deportation or nothing at all.
I never said the illegals have no guilt. They are guilty of living in war torn countries with no where to go and when escape is offered to them by the likes of Insolia or Marley, they are guilty of taking the bait. They are guilty of allowing themselves to be exploited, underpaid with no overtime or breaks and they are guilty of giving in to human nature and having babies when they are here, especially given the fact they may be whisked to a deplorable detention center at any point in time.
Is that guilt enough for you Liquid?
Liquid, My, you are rambling today.
I have cited example after example, url after url, which illustrate the logic behind my perspective. It is you who uses the same rhetoric, Mass Deportation or nothing at all.
I never said the illegals have no guilt. They are guilty of living in war torn countries with no where to go and when escape is offered to them by the likes of Insolia or Marley, they are guilty of taking the bait. They are guilty of allowing themselves to be exploited, underpaid with no overtime or breaks and they are guilty of giving in to human nature and having babies when they are here, especially given the fact they may be whisked to a deplorable detention center at any point in time.
Is that guilt enough for you Liquid?
And you know what Liquid, if I believed in Conspiracy theories, I would question:
. Why is it many of the employers who solicit and exploit employees from war torn and chaotic countries have Government Contracts?
I would also question:
. Why is it during the sweeps, the illegal workers are taken to Detention Centers awaiting their court date? Whole families are sent there.
These prisons are RNC Crony owned PRIVATE PRISONS and they are PAID on a Per Head Basis. They KNOW these swept up employees and their families do not have $$ for bail and will be in these centers for many months. Even after their court date, they have to WAIT for a certain number of others from their home country are swept up and gone to court before large groups are sent home. These privately owned detention centers are continually filled to capacity in deplorable conditions as these people wait and wait for their ride home.
All while the RNC Cronies who own these Deplorable Centers FILL THEIR GREEDY POCKETS as they are paid PER HEAD.
C'mon Dee, I am giving you the opportunity to weed out the bad from the good, instead you ramble on about detention centers.
Ok Liquid. I will bite.
Steps to Immigration Reform:
1. CIR Bill passed (a. Secure Borders, b. Employer Sanctions, c. Guest Worker status for those with plus 3 years
2. The "out of the shadow" process begins with the help of Employers. Specific Timelines are established. (start and end dates eg 1 year.) Forms completed. Documentation processed and IDs provided. Those with less than 3 years are asked to repatriate voluntarily, or with the help of employers. (Some monetary motivation for employers and employees is provided to help employees voluntarily repatriate within the specified period)
3. At the end of the "out of the shadow" process, all employers are using National ID process. Electronic sweeps begin. All employers with unidentified employees are subject to on site reviews. Severe penalities and fines for guilty.
So you see Liquid, weeding out the Bad from the Good occurs within a year of passage, all with the help of the Employer and the National ID Process.
The voluntary and assisted Repatriation process is a vital link to this.
You have done nothing to weed the bad from the good. The bad can still become legalized.
You state to want employer sanctions yet you decry: (Some monetary motivation for employers and employees is provided to help employees voluntarily repatriate within the specified period).
I see you letting the employers off the hook for everything, and paying them for it.
All you have accomplished is weeding the workforce of American Citizens by allowing "Illegals" to retain there positions, thus further benefiting the employer/business profit.
Decry?
I promoted.
Shall I provide you the definition?
Decry: to speak disparagingly of; denounce as faulty or worthless
I promoted this VIABLE option!
Liquid, I have a new question.
I am watching Obama on Meet the Press (replay from this morning on MSNBC).
He is brilliant, unbelievably brilliant. Hillary is brilliant. McCain is brilliant.
Now here is my question. How on earth can any of you RNC member believe that the likes of Tancredo or R. Paul or Thompson, how can you possibly believe any of them are in their league. Come on!!!
Have them STOP running! Let´s not embarrass America again by having an illiterate serve, in office, as President! Please have some self respect here!!
They are not even in league with the 2nd tier!! For Heaven´s Sake.
Take them OUT OF THE RUNNING!!
dee, nobody spins the truth like the pro's. The anti's can't hold a candle to them in that respect.
Oh my God dee, I can't believe what a reading comprehension problem you have. How many times do I have to repeat that some citizens and non-citizens have made their cities and neighborhoods look culturally like the countries that they left or the countries of their ancestors? Making that statement is just the truth. It isn't racism. They don't resemble traditional American cities culturally. What is wrong with you? Why do you repeat the same things over and over even when they are explained to you? The facts are the facts. Open your eyes!
Poor Pat,
You lack respect for me and all Hispanics, however you do not recognize it.
As waas said, "forgive them for they know not what they do!"
dee, see this is where you show your bias in the two groups that are both responsble for illegals being employed in our country and that is the employers and the illegals themselves. You state that the employers should be in prison (of which I agree) but then in the same sentence you say that the illegals should be able to come out of the shadows and be legalized. Why only a penalty for the employers but not for the illegals in your opinion? Why shouldn't the employers go to prison and the illegals be deported? That way they are both being punished and they both should be.
I found a link to an article where an employer is going to prison for his wrongdoing. I will find it and post it here. I am sure they aren't the only ones either.
Stop your BS lies and insults, dee! I never said nor implied that I disrespect Hispanics. Put up or shut up!
Here we are discussing why certain cities and neighborhoods resemble a third world country and you turn that into a disrespect for Hispanics? WTF are you talking about? I know many cites and neighborhoods that resemble China, Vietnam, etc. So why do you just mention those of the Hispanic flavor? Playing victim here again?
Pat,
Today, the employers have NO sanctions and NO accountability.
Those employees caught up in sweeps are swept to one of the demonous Detention Centers with their families. Deplorable!!
Your right Dee, decry was the wrong word. "put forward" would be more suited. corrected paragraph:
You state to want employer sanctions yet you put forward: (Some monetary motivation for employers and employees is provided to help employees voluntarily repatriate within the specified period).
All right Pat.
You´ve thrown down the gauntlet!
Here we go.
Put em Up!
Here you go, dee. Here is just one example of a company who hired illegals and the person responsbile is going to prison. Illegal aliens can be detained immediately in our American justice system but an American is entitled to a trial first. That's one part you keep leaving out. You expect an immediate conviction but that isn't the way our justice works and thank God for that. Sometimes it can take months and even years for a trial date to be set. But justice prevails in the end.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-cfbriefs07_107nov07,0,1179725.story
Whew! By the number of comments you received here I guess you came up with an interesting post. This is an interesting concept but I suspect many of the 12 million can be found in those enclaves you would like to get rid of so in that sense, your solution may not hold water. I do like some of your proposals.
The American Merchants could be and probably are Hispanic American merchants who are just as willing as anyone else to take advantage of the illegals in one way or another while at the same time aid and abetting their illegal stay in this country.
I don't think you know what it means to be a third world country. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, the chances are pretty good that it is a duck. It has little or nothing to do with citizenship or how it was obtained: through birthright, anchor babies, chain immigrations or whatever.
Here is the complete news article about the employers that are going to prison and being heavily fined for employing illegal aliens. Everytime you claim that the employers get off scot free, I will make you eat your words, dee. I know you will repeat your same old BS again because you always do about EVERYTHING no matter how many times you are proven wrong.
Employer of immigrants faces prison
November 7, 2007 LONGWOOD - A Longwood woman, who worked as controller of a nationwide janitorial service, faces up to five years in prison as part of a plea agreement in federal court in Grand Rapids, Mich.
Christina A. Flocken, 59, was accused of hiring out cleaning crews staffed with illegal immigrants to a Michigan resort. She pleaded guilty Monday to conspiracy to defraud the federal government and harboring illegal aliens, said Hagen W. Frank, an assistant U.S. attorney.
Flocken could be sentenced to up to five years in prison and ordered to pay a $250,000 fine plus a share of a restitution judgment exceeding $15 million, Frank said.
Richard M. Rosenbaum, 61, of Longwood and Edward S. Cunningham, 44, of West Palm Beach, owners of Rosenbaum-Cunningham International Inc., or RCI, a Florida-based cleaning contractor, pleaded guilty to identical charges Oct. 17. While Cunningham faces the same penalties as Flocken, Rosenbaum faces up to 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine.
The investigation into RCI led to the nationwide arrests in February of more than 200 illegal immigrants, mostly Mexican nationals.
The investigation began at Grand Traverse Resort and Spa in Acme, in Michigan's northwestern Lower Peninsula.
Ludmilla Lelis, Bianca Prieto, Gary Taylor, Christopher Sherman, Sarah Langbein, Stephen Hudak and Jay Hamburg of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report.
Pat,
The sweep was in February. This is November. She has only been charged. She has not spent one day in jail. This article only said she "COULD be sentence."
Meanwhile, the workers are immediately SWEPT to the Deplorable Detention Centers.
I rest my case!!
Pat, I am waiting for my apology from you! (Don´t worry. I won´t hold my breath waiting.) You still owe me $10.
dee, just how dense are you? I already stated that the wheels of justice can turn really slowly when it comes to American citizens being charged with a crime and going on trial for a crime and convicted. She plead guilty so I don't see her getting off scot free. What the article was implying is that the sentence and fines "could" be that severe but maybe a lesser prison time and fine could be possible. It went right over your head of course.
Illegal aliens don't nor should not have the same luxury. There isn't much to prove. If you don't have papers to be in this country then the detainment is instantaneous. That is as it should be.
To Date Pat,
None have served time.
SO WHAT!!!! She admited her guilt and she will serve her time and pay her fine in due time. God, you must drive your poor husband completely nuts!!!!!!!!!!! I would have thrown your butt out the door years ago. How can he stand you?
LOL Pat,
Personal attacks always come from you when you are LOSING an argument. I feel sorry for your Better Half!!
This from the Queen of personal attacks, false accusations and name calling. After awhile we have to fire back at you. We never start it. It is always you. It gets frustrating too when you repeat the same old nonsense over and over and we explain everything to you and you just start the same old falsehoods all over again a day or two later.
Pat,
Thank you for calling me a Queen!!
If I wave my sceptor will you be nicer?
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