The UGLY TRUTH about the Immigration DiscussionConversation From the Transcripts of Hardball 10-31-07:
MATTHEWS: Nobody likes ethnic change. It‘s always hard to deal with. You try to be a liberal about it. But when things change in your neighborhood, you have to get used to it and deal with it. Nobody is thrilled by it, because it just happens in our country. People, neighborhoods change. Life changes. But when you hate—when you see the federal government or the state government papering over a problem by giving people documents, driver‘s license, which they can use for all kinds of purposes, especially building a paper trail to establish a fact they should be here legally, it looks like the government has given up. It said, well, we can‘t stop illegal immigration, so we‘ll give everybody a driver‘s license. It strikes me as a death blow, a death knell to government. If you can‘t protect your border, you‘re not really a country, are you?
DONAHUE: Well, you know what is interesting, Chris is I think what you just articulated is where a lot of voters are on the issue. What is ICE doing? Why is this a random process? Why do some people wait two months and others wait ten years to get legal entry into this country? Now, in New Hampshire you have a lot of Canadian people coming in. They don‘t look different. It‘s not a hot button issue up here. It‘s really—they sound and look like Americans. So while we have tons of immigrants, it doesn‘t really show. I think the bigger concern, and the one that, you know, Giuliani and McCain and Clinton would be wise to take this issue on is that there is no national security without an accounting for who‘s in the country. And ICE and the former INS have no idea who is in the country. They have no idea how to get rid of them if they‘re not people who are doing good things. So I think that‘s the bottom line issue. This is a national security issue. And if Hillary Clinton is running in some ways as a national security Democrat, which I believe she is, she should grasp this issue, understand it and own it.
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Republicans DON´T CARE ABOUT LATINO VOTERS:
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MATTHEWS: You know, Roger, it seems to me that the Republican Party, like it did back in the ‘60s on Civil Rights, now has a weird advantage. Since they‘ve blown it with Latino voters, they have an opportunity now to simply go for broke in backing those who don‘t like illegal immigrants, who aren‘t as sensitive to the possible ethnic aspect to opposing illegal immigrants. They can just say, Look, we don‘t have to say phrases like “undocumented workers,” we can say “illegal immigrants” or even “illegal aliens,” because that‘s going to be our politics.
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38 comments:
Race card alert!
Nobody likes CULTURAL change when it comes about "unnaturally" by illegal immigration. Would Mexico welcome a complete cultural change in their country due to illegal immigration?
Republicans don't care about Latino voters? Well in the first place should any party be concerned about the needs of one ethnic group over the needs of all Americans? Don't we as citizens all heve the same needs and concerns?
Is this the way a candidate of either party has to "care about the Latino vote" or to gain their vote is to go against the enforcement of our immigration laws? My how telling that most of these illegals are of their ethnicity. What kind of citizens are these? Shamefull!
Hardball has EXPOSED the ANTI agenda. You cannot hide behind your well scripted rehearsed arguments any more. It is what it is!! Racism!!
It is the Hispanics (legal and illegal) you ANTIs oppose. As was said, no one cares about the Canadian illegal immigrants!
Republicans DO NOT care about the Latino voters. Period!! They should care. The racist based ANTI agenda is going to LOSE it for them!! Period!!
Yes. The Racist ANTIs are Shameful, and now, EXPOSED!!
Actually you sound like a racist against Americans who are loyal to the USA.
How many illegal Canadian aliens do you think are in this country?
Dee says: It is the Hispanics (legal and illegal) you ANTIs oppose. As was said, no one cares about the Canadian illegal immigrants!
Actually there are so few Canadian illegal immigrants that they don't even make the news, and since the majority are of Latino descent, that seems to be all that makes the news, however if one does some searching they can find that Russian, Irish, Asian, Indian, and Muslim are also greatly caught and deported.
Dee only sees brown as stated in the Hispanic News: How can any one justify Hispanics who represent Hispanics voting for laws that bring devastation to so many other Hispanics. Is their skin not brown like ours? It appears not!
Anon, First of all, this entire post is a reprint of the transcripts. You are right in one regard. This Conversation on Hardball was EXTREMELY RACIST!!
Also, apparently you did not READ the history of immigration I provided you.
I think is important for every LOYAL American to read, study and understand how we got here and why we need Comprehensive Immigration Reform. It is so sad so many are uninformed.
According to the Hardball transcripts, there are huge rates of illegal Canadians in this country, particularly in the Northeast. However, since they like Canadians up there, no one cares about your so called "rule of law" EXCUSE.
Sure Liquid. You like to minimize the numbers of other illegal immigrants besides Mexicans. Have you done a state by state survey of the illegal immigrants within each state? According to the Hardball transcripts there are very high rates in New Hampshire but they don´t care because they look just like you.
Shameful Racist Talk!! You ANTIs are Exposed!!
"Hardball" can't get into the minds of every anti and neither can you! Why are you being so nasty all of a sudden? Maybe you should stop watching the media. That is where you claim that the antis got all their bad ideas and now you watch them.
Again, stop lying. Most antis are opposed to all illegal immigration and that includes Canadians too. It isn't a racist issue for most!!!!
You are still repeating the same old sh@t over and over. Republicans nor Democrats should care about Latino voters as a group. They should only care about the American voting public as a whole. Whats so dammned special about Hispanics that either party should cater to them rather than the American voting public as a whole?
You can't expose anyone unless you get into each individual mind and that is impossible!
Now I know why I was warned not to about post in here. You are absolutely irrational and psychotic to say the least. Why can't you express your opinion and views without name calling?
Sheesh Pat, you call me names (like liar) and continue to not listen or choose to understand my feedback and then you say I am nasty. Hmmph.
I have decided to be more like my new role model Hillary and take on all you boys and be as tough as she is!
So your buddy T advised you not to post in here.
At least you are brave!
I call you a liar because that is the undeniable truth for all to see in here. It is a lie to say that all anti's are racists. There is no denying that. Don't tell lies about ALL antis and I won't call you a liar then.
Wouldn't you call me a liar if I said that all Hispanics are reconqistas?
I have never seen or heard of 1 Reconquista, period.
Do you deny there are racist ANTIs, and millions of racist KKK, Nazis, Stormfronters, and just plain old regular Americans who hate minorities and, who as Chris Matthews said, are not thrilled if a minority moved into their neighborhood?
Mexican Reconquista: Leader Says California Will Be First 'Hispanic' State
Stephan Archer
Wednesday, June 7, 2000
"I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this."
This statement wasn’t made in secrecy behind closed doors. It wasn’t said outside the jurisdiction of the United States of America. None other than Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo spoke it in Chicago on July 23, 1997.
Speaking before the National Council of La Raza, Zedillo went on to say, "For this reason, my government proposed a constitutional amendment to allow any Mexican with the right and the desire to acquire another nationality to do so without being forced to first give up his or her Mexican nationality."
This amendment is significant for more than just the obvious reason. It is nearly impossible to obtain Mexican citizenship unless you can prove you are Mexican or are of Mexican descent. If you are neither, you must prove that you have completely adopted Mexican culture and lifestyle. Yet a Mexican citizen can, in essence, acquire another nationality and remain a Mexican. Is this a double standard?
Glenn Spencer, president of Voice of Citizens Together and radio talk show host of American Patrol Report, thinks so. But he thinks there’s something more sinister to the Mexican president’s decree than one might think.
"This is an invasion of the United States in a very classic way with all of the classic objectives of an invasion without using bullets," Spencer said.
Spencer added he believed Mexico is allowing this so that those people with dual citizenship may vote in the interest of Mexico in the United States. The ultimate goal of this invasion, Spencer contends, is to reclaim the American Southwest – an area including California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Texas. Known as Aztlan by Hispanic activists, these states make up what used to be Mexican territory before treaties and wars gave the land to the United States.
Some Hispanic activists deny that there is any sort of organized effort to take over these states and reclaim it for Mexico. However, Jose Pescador Osuna, who was once the Mexican consul general in Los Angeles, has been quoted on the record as saying, "Even though I’m saying this part serious and part joking, I believe we are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California."
"La Reconquista" means "the reconquest" and refers to the taking over of the U.S. Southwest. Osuna now is an agent of the Mexican government and works for migration in Mexico City.
Even though these statements have been made on American soil, Mario Obledo of the California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations said the "radical" Aztlan movement died in the 1960s. Obledo, a resident of Sacramento, Calif., explained that his organization tries to secure the civil rights of Mexican-Americans "and others similarly situated."
Although claiming a profound faith in America, he’s also proud of the fact that the majority of Californians in the next few years will be Hispanic.
"California is going to be a Hispanic state," Obledo said. "Anyone who doesn’t like it should leave."
Obledo further added: "Every constitutional office in California is going to be held by Hispanics in the next 20 years. It’s a fact of life. That’s all. All of those propositions – 187, 209, and whatever – is a backlash due to the insecurities of the majority population. That’s all. But all those measures are going to be reversed one of these days."
Proposition 187 was the California initiative supported by a majority of Californians that denied taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens. Proposition 209 was another initiative supported by a majority of Californians that banned affirmative action, that is, prohibited preferential treatment in the work place and public schools and universities.
Speaking at a Latino gathering in response to Proposition 187’s passage in 1995, Art Torres, the chairman of the California Democratic Party, said: "Power is not given to you. You have to take it. Remember, 187 is the last gasp of white America in California."
But if Mexico is to reclaim the U.S. Southwest, how will it be done?
Spencer believes that with the increasing unrest along the U.S.-Mexican border, the U.S. Border Patrol will eventually become overwhelmed, requiring the U.S. Army to take action. With increasing unrest and military presence all along the border, the current border will be erased and a new border zone stretching 150 miles from the current border into the United States will be put in place.
Although this may sound impossible, President Clinton has already issued an executive order that could put such a border zone in place.
Executive Order 13122, signed by the president May 25, 1999, established an Interagency Task Force on the Economic Development of the Southwest Border. The purpose of the task force is to "coordinate and better leverage existing Administration efforts for the Southwest Border, in concert with locally led efforts to increase the living standards and the overall economic profile of the Southwest Border so that it may achieve the average of the Nation."
Down toward the bottom of the executive order, it adds, "The Southwest Border or Southwest Border region is defined as including the areas up to 150 miles north of the United States-Mexican border in the States of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and California."
Spencer believes this inclusion in the executive order is little more than a mechanism of NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) to erase the border by creating a border "zone" instead of a border line.
"It’s an attempt to gradually erase the border," Spencer said.
Spencer has been speaking about his scenario of an "Aztlan invasion" on the radio for some time now, and it has drawn considerable attention, including death threats.
Referring to a banner he saw at California State University, Northridge that read "Aztlan Graduation," Spencer concluded: "This is an invasion of the United States. I believe it’s going to end up in a war, and I believe it’s going to be so much worse because Clinton has sold us down the river."
The Scourge of..........
Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan
"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."
"Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing."
Last updated: 04/07/2007| Jump to Latest Additions
This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
MEChA Teaches Tolerance?
When non-Raza students complained about this UC San Diego student student newspaper as being racist, MEChA was one of about 20 Raza organizations pledging their support for this publication of hate. Antonio Villaraigosa, Cruz Bustamante, Raul Grijalva, and other prominent Latino politicians say to this day, that they are proud to have been Mechistas. Check This Out...
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.
From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
The Latest on the MEChA scourge below......
SDSU Daily Aztec -- April 7, 2007
MEChA trash makes more ridiculous demands
Hundreds of college students and community members gathered during a "Zapata Vive" march on Saturday morning at Chicano Park in Barrio Logan, holding signs with slogans such as "No human being is illegal" and shouting cries for the freedom and justice of Mexican and Latin American people in the U.S....
Read the above posts and then tell me who is the racist; which are the racist organizations; and tell me again why it is not Mexifornia.
When are you going to admit that there are racists among the pro-illegals and among the illegal aliens themselves and among some foreign born citizens or 14th amendment babies?
The key statement is:
"It strikes me as a death blow, a death knell to government. If you can‘t protect your border, you‘re not really a country, are you?"
Hear! Hear!
If we are a country it is a country fast becoming Mexico Norte. Soon even the Hispanic Americans will be moaning about what has happened to our country. By supporting the illegal aliens they will have killed the goose that laid the golden egg and that will hurt them as much as it will other Americans. All of their relatives will have joined them in poverty and crime-ridden barrios.
Culture, law and order, population, quality of life, and standard of living are what matter not the color of one's skin.
The racist, disloyal pro-illegals are shameful, and now, EXPOSED!! La Hermandad de la Raza prevails over reason. I doubt if you would recognize a Reconquista if one came up and bit you. You are in shameful, unAmerican state of denial. Where will it all lead? I think we all know: Mexico Norte or some equally bad third world country look alike.
Let us resolve to not rail against any race or ethnic group solely on the basis of their skin color. Let us also resolve to oppose the continued presence of all illegals in this country no matter what their countries of origin are. By doing that we can put to rest the continuous and unwarranted accusations of racism by those who themselves are guilty of their own special brand of racism.
Hardball is entertaining but is no more capable of objectivity about immigration than any other citizen. Many citizens have been adversely affected by illegal aliens and not just the violent criminals or welfare parasites. Maybe Hardball should seek out a few of these souls instead of pontificating about racism.
I suppose the Canadians who come across into New Hampshire are somehow different from the the hundreds of thousands who flood across the border into San Diego to shop and may be stay illegally. We can solve this problem easily by opposing all such incursions not based on the local economies but on the law of the land and what is in the national interest.
You know what I like best about you Ulty?
You are so smart. You are so clever. Inside, I know you are really a nice guy.
However, sometimes your arguments are pretty lame.
Take for example your quote of ex MX Prez. Geez o peets. You take one statement out of context, quoted from the most racist ANTI site VDARE and you act as if it is real? Come on!
Glenn Spencer? You quote Glenn Spencer, one of the biggest racists of all time? Come on! Get Real! You lose the argument automatically.
Then you talk about 1 so called reconquista statement. Come on. There are no reconquistas.
There are millions of KKK, Stormfront, Nazis, Skinheads, etc etc etc. Don´t pretend you don´t know!
Racism exists in American and it starts with the ANTIs! The end. Period!
The following is from democratic strategists:
"Here's a gem in that memo from Democratic pollsters/strategists Stan Greenberg, Al Quinlan, and James Carville:
The centrality of illegal immigration to the current discontent about the direction of the country may be taking us back again to a welfare moment. Just as many workers with moderate incomes, uncertain employment and health insurance could not understand why they were being taxed to subsidize the long-term idleness of those on welfare, many Americans are just perplexed that this country has lost control of the borders and winks at illegal employment, taxing the resources of local schools and hospitals and much more. Many of the voter responses to welfare were racist to be sure, as now with the response to illegal immigration, but many are not."
Jose Angel Gutierrez, 'Chicano Studies' professor and founder of 'The United Race' political party, has said:
"We have an aging white America. . . . They are dying. . . . They are ******** in their pants with fear! I love it!" "We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him." And since 1970, he has professed, "Our devil has pale skin and blue eyes."
Anon,
Good Statement. Thank you.
Pat, As you are well aware, the ANTI group, the American Patrol, took this 1969 quote out of context. It is an ISOLATED possible misquote. Nothing to do with your ANTI pipedream of Reconquista. Here is what the neutral wikipedia says on the subject:
The anti-illegal immigration group American Patrol quotes him as saying, "We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."[1]
There still remains some debate about the actual words Gutierrez used in his famous "kill the Gringo" speech of April 10 or 11, 1969 in San Antonio when he was head of the Mexican American Youth Organization (MAYO). In his speech which was mainly about Mexican American civil rights (these are U.S. citizens of Mexican ancestry) he said:
"We realize that the effects of cultural genocide takes many forms—some Mexicanos will become psychologically castrated, others will become demagogues and gringos as well and others will come together, resist and eliminate the gringo. We will be the latter.”
Questions followed the press statement, particularly from Kemper Diehl, a reporter with the San Antonio Express News. Diehl wrote an article on the press conference and printed his version of an exchange:
Q: What do you mean by ‘eliminate the gringo?’
A: “You can eliminate an individual in various ways. You can certainly kill him but that is not our intent at this moment. You can remove the base of support that he operates from be it economic, political, social. That is what we intend to do.”
Kemper Diehl wrote more: “Gutierrez was again pressed as to intentions of killing gringos ‘if worst comes to worst.’ He replied ‘If worst comes to worst and we have to resort to that means, it would be self-defense.’ ” Gutierrez went on to be quoted as detailing attempts on his life and property just a few years before in Crystal City, Texas.
In "A Challenge to Build a New Society," New York Times, April 20, 1969, Gutierrez was quoted as saying "we intend to eliminate the Gringo." Gutierrez is described as a veteran, and "scholarly" and is quoted as advocating violence only in "self-defense."
This "kill the Gringo" quote may have been mis-quoted in a San Antonio Express newspaper editorial on April 12, 1969 which described MAYO as a "handful of apparently frustrated young men" and Gutierrez as a "violent" young man.
It is worth mentioning that after his 1969 comments the San Antonio newspapers carried criticisms by Anglos and Mexican Americans alike. He was called a "boy," a "baby face" and a "young juvenile with a tamale on his shoulder" in letters running in the Dallas Morning News April 12, 1969, and San Antonio Express letters from April 12, 16, and 20, 1969.
In a Wall Street Journal article titled "The Angry Chicano" June 11, 1970 Gutierrez, then heading La Raza Unida Party in Crystal City, Texas, is quoted as saying: "It's too late for the Gringo to make amends. Violence has got to come." The article detailed the extreme poverty, poor working conditions, and frustration felt by young Mexican American citizens at the start of the 1970s as they sought to build their own civil rights movement as citizens in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Angel_Gutierrez
Nice little spin there Professor to try and wiggle out of your racist statements.
Dear Anon,
I speak Truth, Justice and the American Way.
You, on the other hand, utilize typical ANTI rhetoric. Not surprising and easy to respond to.
Was I addressing you? I was addrssing the Professor's remarks.
Very weak response Anonymous. It appears you do not choose to accept the facts.
What facts? Your facts? Or are you taking the professers back peddling statements as fact? That isn't fact at all. He is just trying to save his face now. Do you even know what the word fact means? It doesn't appear so. Someone denying something isn't fact. His words are what facts are.
Anon, Puh lease. What don´t you understand that these mis quoted statements were made in 1969 and they are taken out of context and misquoted?
What don't you understand that there is no way of proving one way or another if the professor meant his words as exactly stated? You are saying that his back peddling is proof now? I say that a professor wouldn't express himself in a way to be misinterpreted in or out of context. Is he also saying that it is out of context? Oh, year that's proof alright, Cause he said so, lol.
Anon, Don´t you understand these statements were
1. misquotes
2. what he did say was said in 1969 to form a Chicano group. His whole statement was misquoted.
3. There is no such thing as Reconquista. Reconquista Sheconquista!!
Proof dee, proof. Where is your proof that he didn't say these things or that he meant otherwise. Where is it, dee?
Go to another topic. There is a whole lost of reconquistas and their quotes there. Go to Azlatistas, Brown Berets, Mecha, Mexica Movement. Are you denying that these groups exist? If so, why? Their websites are right on the internet. Can't deny that can you? Anti's don't start webstites claiming that Aztlan is here in the U.S. for re-conquering. Reconquistas do. You have a severe mental problem.
I gave you the links Anon.
Additionally, 1969... you get it, the quotes-misquotes were from 1969 the forming of the Chicano Youth Movement.
No one wants to claim the USA for Mexico. Come on. Snap out of it.
The links didn't PROVE anything. Did you read the reconquista remarks that I posted for you? They are a matter of public record. Not made up.
Anon, You are not listening.
Don´t you understand these statements were
1. misquotes
2. what he did say was said in 1969 to form a Chicano group. His whole statement was misquoted.
3. There is no such thing as Reconquista. Reconquista Sheconquista!!
I can see it's pretty much a waste of time to post here. Dee is one of those people who wiggle with words rather than discuss a point.
But for the record, I think it would be fine if all the white illegal aliens were sent home first. I don't favor one group over another -- after all, what race is "illegal alien?"
And as for the attention that Latinos get on this issue, they are the ones whose "activists" run out and point the finger at their race every time the question of damage to this nation by illegals is raised. Of course the public consciousness is higher about the group.
Anon,
I hope, from all of your time here, you now know and understand one thing. Know that I have firm resolve and will continue to publish my opinions and discuss issues openly and civilly here wiht both sides.
Know and understand I will continue to complete my research and post my findings.
Know and understand logic will prevail in this open discussion.
More and more people are learning and understanding they have a right to their opinion.
We PROs are gaining a groundswell. We are becoming very active on the internet and getting our message out across America.
The 1st Ammendment is alive and well and surviving on the Internet!
Hurray!!
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