The Vast ANTI Conspiracy is busy trying to swiftboat Governor Spitzer´s DL Plan.
Lower Insurance Rates: The State Department of Insurance estimates that expanded license access will reduce the premium costs associated with uninsured motorist coverage by 34% which will save New York drivers $120 million each year. Other states with similar policies have seen their auto insurance rates drop as well.
All logical people agree that licensing the unlicensed undocumented would make our streets safer.
The inaccurate NY1 article says:
"Governor Eliot Spitzer says one benefit to giving licenses to illegal immigrants will be safer streets, but an author of a report the governor often cites in defense of his plan, says there is no proof this plan will make streets safe. NY1’s Josh Robin filed the following exclusive report."
The ANTI sites are busy picking up this incorrect-inaccurate article. Some of these sites who have quickly picked up this bogus article are the ANTI sites: Immigration Group Daily, The Voice, Alipac, and the conservative FreeRepublic. Even though this article just came out, you can expect many more ANTI sites will pile on in the hours ahead.
Here is my letter to the NY1 Editorial page:
Article: Expert Says There Is No Data To Defend Spitzer's License Plan
Josh Robin´s article was inaccurate and misrepresented the Governor and misrepresented Scopath.
Robin reported Scopath saying, "When I look at the data, what I see is folks like you and I,” said Scoptz. “It's young to middle-aged males, clearly residents or citizens of this country. It's not a huge population of illegal immigrants in the data."
From Scopath´s book "License to Kill 2", he did reference Undocumented Workers as follows:
"California’s experts on DWS and DWR and unlicensed drivers believe that the system, as it exists now, has too many incentives for not obtaining a license or reinstating one after a suspension. Unlicensed drivers are often doing so because they are undocumented aliens and/or because they cannot afford to meet the insurance requirements. Insurance costs are the reason most often cited for a driver’s failure to reinstate his or her license after a suspension."
Robin also misrepresented what Gov Spitzer said. Robin wrote: "Governor Eliot Spitzer has cited a AAA report showing that those driving without a license are more dangerous to fellow motorist, as a defense for his driver’s license plan." I found no such statement, although this statement accurately describes the "License to Kill" report.
What the Governor´s press release did say was:
From the Governors 9/21/07 Press Release:
Josh Robin´s article was inaccurate and misrepresented the Governor and misrepresented Scopath.
Robin reported Scopath saying, "When I look at the data, what I see is folks like you and I,” said Scoptz. “It's young to middle-aged males, clearly residents or citizens of this country. It's not a huge population of illegal immigrants in the data."
From Scopath´s book "License to Kill 2", he did reference Undocumented Workers as follows:
"California’s experts on DWS and DWR and unlicensed drivers believe that the system, as it exists now, has too many incentives for not obtaining a license or reinstating one after a suspension. Unlicensed drivers are often doing so because they are undocumented aliens and/or because they cannot afford to meet the insurance requirements. Insurance costs are the reason most often cited for a driver’s failure to reinstate his or her license after a suspension."
Robin also misrepresented what Gov Spitzer said. Robin wrote: "Governor Eliot Spitzer has cited a AAA report showing that those driving without a license are more dangerous to fellow motorist, as a defense for his driver’s license plan." I found no such statement, although this statement accurately describes the "License to Kill" report.
What the Governor´s press release did say was:
From the Governors 9/21/07 Press Release:
The benefits of this policy change include:
Safer Streets: In its report, “Unlicensed to Kill,” the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety found that unlicensed drivers are almost five times more likely to be in a fatal crash than are validly licensed drivers.
Safer Streets: In its report, “Unlicensed to Kill,” the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety found that unlicensed drivers are almost five times more likely to be in a fatal crash than are validly licensed drivers.
Lower Insurance Rates: The State Department of Insurance estimates that expanded license access will reduce the premium costs associated with uninsured motorist coverage by 34% which will save New York drivers $120 million each year. Other states with similar policies have seen their auto insurance rates drop as well.
Safer Homeland: This policy change helps bolster homeland security by bringing more individuals into the system and, when necessary, assisting law enforcement efforts to locate those who present a real security threat.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the Governor´s statements are accurate.
All of the Governor´s statements are accurate.
All logical people agree that licensing the unlicensed undocumented would make our streets safer.
Posts
55 comments:
who gets to say which people are logical? you? you have to be kidding!
Scopath, Historians, Anyone who studies the issues. That is who.
"Unlicensed drivers are often doing so because they are undocumented aliens and/or because they cannot afford to meet the insurance requirements. Insurance costs are the reason most often cited for a driver’s failure to reinstate his or her license after a suspension."
How will licensing them change their ability to afford insurance? So does this suggest we want to license them and forget about the insurance? How will that make our streets and highways safer? Talk about illogical!!!
"Former Vice President Walter Mondale threw his support behind Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York. “America is ready for change, and Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to deliver it," Mondale said. "Hillary is uniquely qualified to rebuild America’s standing in the world and lead this nation from her first day in the White House."
That loser Mondale has nothing to offer us about the present campaign. Everyone knows the VP job is a throwaway job. Mondale hasn't won anything on his own since he left his Senate job and Minnesota. He has spent too much time ice fishing and contemplating his navel to offer any useful endorsements.
Ulty, These quotes are from Scopath´s report "License to Kill 2." I posted it because of the bogus online article by NY1 that claimed Scopath did not reference illegal immigrants in his document. They were wrong!
So Ulty, are you saying VP Cheney is in a throwaway job? I thought you all say he is running things.
Dee,
I know you are working hard for a cause you really believe in. I know that in your heart you think you are doing the right thing.
But with all due respect, I think Caesar Chavez would be crying right now if he read your posts on this board.
Caesar spoke often about how undocumented immigrants were fine people, but that the interests of Mexicans born in the US demanded that the undocumented be prevented from coming to the US. He would loudly and aggressively say that undocumented Mexicans that came in to the US should be rounded up and deported.
Caesar went beyond words, he personally called the INS and requested that the INS round up and deport undocumented folks that he knew about.
Caesar understood the simple logic that more workers = lower wages. Fewer workers = higher wages.
Dee, the policies you advocate on this board would lead to more workers coming in to the US. They would lead to lower wages. That is why your statements would make Caesar cry.
Dee, if you want more information on why Caesar disagreed with you so violently, there are literally dozens of places on the web where you can read his opinions on the subject of the undocumented. perhaps you might want to start with Wikipedia.
Let me give you one quote below, from the Air America progressive radio network :
The reason why thirty years ago United Farm Workers' Union (UFW) founder Caesar Chavez fought against illegal immigration, and the UFW turned in illegals during his tenure as president, was because Chavez, like progressives since the 1870s, understood the simple reality that labor rises and falls in price as a function of availability.
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/03/con06114.html
Dee, I don't blame you, you have been mislead by the greedy capitalist employers, who seek to pay low wages. They have tricked you and manipulated you in to fighting the interests of your own people.
I forgive you. But Caesar might not.
Dear Anon,
Perhaps your comment was an honest statement. Perhaps, you were attempting a crude debate tactic or perhaps a meager attempt to belittle my position. If you are being honest, I appreciate your concern. In any case, let me share something with you. I was not born yesterday. I have studied the issues for some time now. I have conducted research, studied the issues and formed my own opinions. No one has misled anyone. Forgive me but, your “forgive me” comment sounds disingenuous. Using such language leads me to believe your comments are, in fact, rather dishonest.
You are right about one thing. Cesar Chavez would be crying today, as my Dad would be crying, as I sometimes do, over what is happening in America today.
If you knew and understood Cesar Chavez, you would know he was a true Humanitarian and he did, in fact, support Human Rights. He and Dolores Huerta while in the UFW sought to stop the exploitation of migrant workers. My Dad did the same and fought the same battles.
Do you understand what it is like to walk in the shoes of a migrant worker? Do you know what it is like to work 12 - 14 hours of back breaking labor in a field all day then to be shoved off into the areas reserved for Mexicans when you are in fact a citizen? Cesar and Dolores did. My Dad did. I do.
Do you have any idea what it is like for most minorities in this country? Working in manual labor jobs, two or three jobs, to support our families? Do you know what that is like? Cesar and Dolores did. My Dad did. I do.
You and people like you miss what Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta both tried to accomplish and what Dolores is still trying to accomplish . They sought to end the exploitation of people. They wanted all of us, people, to be treated like Human Beings so that each and every one of us have the opportunity to achieve the American Dream.
When my Dad sat down with us, he coached and preached, and taught all of his children that hard work and an education would enable us to achieve success in America. Dad loved our country and he believed the American Dream was attainable for all of us.
Guess what Anon? I know there are good and bad people on both sides of this argument. What I and other PROs are seeking is as follows:
1. Secure Borders
2. Employer Sanctions
3. Comprehensive Immigration Reform for the 12M here.
The 3rd item is where both sides disagree. While you and people like you prefer status quo and instilling fear in people through slow attrition and Racial Profiling, the PROs seek to legalize the people here so they NO LONGER LIVE IN FEAR, ARE NO LONGER EXPLOITED and have the OPPORTUNITY to ACHIEVE THE AMERICAN DREAM!
PS: If, by chance, you are not being disingenuous, I hope you come back and visit us here often. I write much more about my Dad and growing us as a Migrant in American in my Book Resilience - Life of a Mexican American.
Dee,
I promise you that you and i are on the same side of most issues. Both of us care about justice for all people.
I promise you that I would grant citizenship to every single undocumented worker in the USA today if i could be certain that no more would come in.
I was a strong advocate of the last amnesty back in 1986.
But the working class of the USA was stabbed in the back after that amnesty. We were stabbed in the back by employers, working in coalition with well meaning good people that helped undocumented sneak in to the USA since 1986.
The working class of the US can't be fooled again. We trusted in amnesty in 1986 and were betrayed.
Caesar spoke eloquently and often about how the supply of labor must be limited. Without a limit on supply wages for Mexicans born in America like him would go down and down.
Dee, i know your intentions are good. that is why i am taking the time to try to present the evidence to you. I wouldn't bother going to the blogs sponsored by your allies, the employers that are in favor of amnesty. They are beyond redemption.
Dee, Caesar's cousin Manuel physically attacked undocumented workers seeking to come in to the USA. Caesar himself repeatedly called the INS and asked them to arrest undocumented workers.
Dee, the greedy employers are turning brother against brother on this issue.
Caesar is a hero. When he called for undocumented workers to be expelled from the US, he faced death threats.
Dee, you don't know how painful it is to take angry criticism from your own side. Caesar did that in order to make his feelings about the undocumented known.
Dee, if those 12 million undocumented were not here in the USA, wages for the Mexicans living in the USA legally would be *much* higher. Do you doubt that ? if so what evidence do you need? I will send you tons and tons of evidence from economists all over the political spectrum.
Think about who your allies are - think about whose economic interests you are advancing.
How can someone of good heart get evidence to you that you are sleeping with the enemy?
Anon, You say you have references and documents. Please email them to me on dee_perezscott@yahoo.com
thank you,
Dee
Dee,
I know you care about all of the minorities downtrodden in this country. For that reason I want to share with you the fact that Caesar was not the only leader of a minority group that spoke passionately against immigration.
In a hearfelt and emotional way, Booker T Washingon implored all people of good heart, all people that cared about creating opportunity for blacks, he implored all these people to prevent the immigration of the unskilled.
Booker T laid out in clear terms that the exploiters, the capitalists, were the forces in favor of immigration.
There are many quotes from Booker T on this subject, I include just one of them here
"To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted I would repeat what I say to my own race, "Cast down your bucket where you are." Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides."
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0504/article_456.shtml
Dee,
take a look at the list of billionaires. The list is filled with people who take advantage of the oversupply of unskilled labor in the USA. They produce billions in wealth from the low paid sweat of minorities.
These billionaires are on the side of amnesty - look it up - they know that another amnesty puts money in their pocket.
Dee, can't you see this is not a racial issue, this is the rich exploiters against the working class of the world.
Not only do the billionaires in the US want Amnesty, but the billionaires of Mexico like Carlos Slim want it too.
The billionaires seem to be able to work together across national lines, across racial lines.
Why can't good hearted working, honest people come together on this issue, across all races?
Let's unite for good wages and a humane working environment. We can have a better society, we just need to reduce the number of unskilled workers competing for every job.
Again, this is not a racial issue. In England, the greedy capitalists have brought in people from Poland to drive down the wages of the unskilled. Are those in the UK who call for an end to that racists?
Dee, it's the exploiters vs. the exploited. Take a good look at your allies. Then take a good look at the way Caesar lived his life, the way Booker T lived his life.
I will say again, both of them would be crying over the way the legitimate heirs to their legacy have been coopted by the exploiters.
Anon,
As you know Cesar was a Humanitarian. He was also trying to form a Union.
Btw, where is your email. Please send me your document of dee_perezscott@yahoo.com
Dee, you ask for references so i will post them for you
From Paul Krugman
Most liberals have celebrated the recent pro-immigration marches, seeing in them a new kind of civil rights movement. They've supported calls to legalize many of the 11 million undocumented immigrants currently in the United States. Many have delighted in the fissures opening up on the right, where nativists are pitted against laissez-faire business interests hungry for cheap labor. Yet there are fault lines on the left as well, with a small but notable number of progressive commentators warning that by championing rights for illegal immigrants and expanded legal immigration, liberals are working against the interests of low-skilled American workers. "I'm instinctively, emotionally pro-immigration," New York Times columnist Paul Krugman wrote last month. "But a review of serious, nonpartisan research reveals some uncomfortable facts about the economics of modern immigration ... [W]hile immigration may have raised overall income slightly, many of the worst-off native-born Americans are hurt by immigration -- especially immigration from Mexico."
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/04/20/debate/index_np.html
Quote From Booker T Washingon
"To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted I would repeat what I say to my own race, "Cast down your bucket where you are." Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides."
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0504/article_456.shtml
With regard to Caesar Chavez
In its early years, Chávez and the UFW went so far as to report illegal aliens who served as strikebreaking replacement workers, as well as those who refused to unionize, to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[4][5][6][7][8]
sources
^ [3] Walls and Mirrors: Mexican Americans, Mexican Immigrants and the Politics of Ethnicity By David Gregory Gutiérrez at p.197-98
^ [4]Accuracy in the Media "Why Journalists Support Illegal Immigration" By Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid
^ [5] Strawberry Fields: politics, class, and work in California agriculture By Miriam J. Wells at p 89-90
^ [6] Beyond the Border: Mexico & the U.S. Today By Peter Baird, Ed McCaughan at p169
^ Farmworker Collective Bargaining, 1979: Hearings Before the Committee on Labor Human Resources Hearings held in Salinas, Calif., Apr. 26, 27, and Washington, D.C., May 24, 1979
^ [7] University of California at Davis - Rural Migration News "PBS Airs Chavez Documentary"
^ [8] Cesar Chavez: A Brief Biography With Documents By Richard W. Etulain at p.18
Dee - i will give you the rest of the documents in my next post
On the subject of how employers benefit from importing unskilled workers and how all workers suffer from the movement of unskilled in to usa
By Michael Ira Lichter
Published 2003
University of California
Press
Unskilled labor
/ California/ Los
Angeles County
299 pages
ISBN 0520231627
Buy this book
University of California Pr
How the Other Half Works solves the riddle of America's contemporary immigration puzzle: why an increasingly high-tech society has use for so many immigrants who lack the basic skills that today's economy seems to demand. In clear and engaging style, Waldinger and Lichter isolate the key factors that explain the presence of unskilled immigrants in our midst. Focusing on Los Angeles, the capital of today's immigrant America, this hard-hitting book elucidates the other side of the new economy, showing that hiring is finding not so much "one's own kind" but rather the "right kind" to fit the demeaning, but indispensable, jobs many American workers disdain. How the Other Half Works solves the riddle of America's contemporary immigration puzzle: why an increasingly high-tech society has use for so many immigrants who lack the basic skills that today's economy seems to demand. In clear and engaging style, Waldinger and Lichter isolate the key factors that explain the presence of unskilled immigrants in our midst. Focusing on Los Angeles, the capital of today's immigrant America, this hard-hitting book elucidates the other side of the new economy, showing that hiring is finding not so much "one's own kind" but rather the "right kind" to fit the demeaning, but indispensable, jobs many American workers disdain.
Anon,
From my earlier Blogs
I find the ANTI and PRO perspectives very interesting.
ANTI Profile: American. The majority are Anglos. (Anglos = white, Northern European ethnicity). Viewpoint: The majority advocate Deportation (mass or self) of the illegal immigrants in this country. Anything short of Deportation is termed Amnesty by the ANTIs. Many call for a 2000 mile southern border fence. There are a few legal immigrants and minorities within their groups, but not many. There are a few politicians that support them, not many. There are hundreds of ANTI websites across the internet. There are hundreds of ANTI radio shows across the country. ANTIs tend to be very angry. They try their darndest to get African Americans to join forces with them citing their uncorroborated claim the 12M drag down the minimum wage. The ANTIs tend to forget the deep alliances between the two ethnic groups which were forged over the previous four decades when they marched together for civil rights. Some of the Worst Terms the ANTIs use: 3rd World Country, Mexifornia, return to American Values.
Pro Profile: There are many, many PRO groups. Each group has a different motivation and they rarely rally together. The largest group is Hispanic Americans. The ethnicities vary and include: Mexican, Central and South American, Cuban, Puerto Rican and more. The majority of PROs who post on the internet are from this group. Other Minority groups include Asian, Southern European, Middle Eastern, African. I only see their posts when I search the international sites. Other PRO groups who also rarely post include: Churches and Humanitarian groups, Businesses that prosper from sales to the 12M (e.g. Banks, Insurance Companies, Retail, etc.) Businesses experiencing Labor Shortages that hire the 12M (e.g. Farming, IT, Construction, Contractors, Retail, etc), Politicians with reasons to support the 12M (e.g. enhance Globalization, running for office, etc). And, of course, the illegal immigrants themselves. The majority of PROs who do post tend to have the following views: They advocate secure borders, sanctioning employers and comprehensive immigration reform (because the current program is broken). The biggest difference between the ANTIs and the PROs is, the PROs advocate a path to citizenship for the 12M, particularly since most of the 12M have worked and contributed to this country for +5 – 20 years.
Anon,
Still waiting your email.
dee_perezscott@yahoo.com
You are leading me to believe you are not a credible poster.
Please send me the email.
Hmmm... posting entire websites. That is an interesting tactic. I just asked you to email me the references from the articles.
What is your motive Anon. I want to believe you are credible.
Why are you not emailing me?
dee_perezscott@yahoo.com
I am waiting.
I find the ANTI tactics at changing the discussion and stopping honest debate absolutely incredible, dear Anon.
What lengths will they go to?
It looks rather like Swiftboating. (at least we are keeping on topic)
LOL
Dee -
The most painful thing here is that most pro amnesty politicians *know* that the amnesty will demolish the wages of the working class, and keep the working class of all races under the boot of the exploiters. After all, the big money political exploiters that give all that money can't hide why they are in favor of amnesty.
But the politicians just don't care about us, they don't care about workers. They love the fact that by speaking for amnesty they can pretend to be compassionate and win points with gullible liberals and progressives, while at the same time ensuring the gusher from the rich employers keeps coming there way.
If you are a Latino politician and you speak against amnesty, you are guaranteed to get the flow of campaign contributions cut off. The politicians can't speak the truth. The truth has to come from the bottom and rise up.
Something similar happens with african american politicians - these african american politicians routinely fight for the interests of the cigarettte companies (look it up!) cigarettes are killing their people and they just don't care, they go for the dollars. The cigarette companies give tons to the african american politicians
an african american politician that speaks out against cigarettes is laughed at by his more mercenary peers. His career is over.
a Latino politician that speaks out against amnesty is also laughed at for the same reason.
The rich control the process - they are setting progressive, working class brother against brother on this issue.
Read the following please. A very painful read for me.
Traditional conservative William F. Buckley was once asked how he would describe a "liberal." He thought for moment, his snakelike tongue darting about just behind open lips, then spoke.
"A liberal is someone who overwaters their house plants."
Ouch! That hurt. Because he was right. I knew exactly what he meant. Why would a liberal overwater a house plant? Because they were mean? No. Quite the opposite. They were just trying to help. Because liberals are nice people -- sometimes too nice. Liberals have overdeveloped empathy glands. When they tell you they "feel your pain," they mean it -- even if at that particular moment you're not feeling it.
Now, before you jump all over me, I'm a liberal. (Well, a social liberal anyway, though I tend to be more conservative when it comes to things like balancing the federal checkbook.) But on social issues I'm right there -- choice for women, equality for everyone and more than a little suspicious about what the domestic Axis of Evil -- corporate/political/media nexus -- are up to.
But, just as conservatives always go too far with their proclivities, so too do liberals. And for both, that is always their downfall. We are coming to the end -- whew! -- of a conservative cycle and just beginning the next liberal cycle. Be assured, it too will inevitably end in excess. But maybe we can avoid some obvious mistakes early on.
Which is why I am risking the ire of the liberal/progressive community to speak frankly about immigration reform. I know the war in Iraq is currently consuming almost all the available attention -- and rightfully so. But there are other festering wounds on America's body-politic that require immediate attention, and one of the biggest is immigration.
But before I put the war aside for a moment, we should all remind ourselves that the Democrats were also on the wrong side of that issue -- and for way too long. And, though they seem to have now gotten it right, it's too late. The damage is done, and it's irreversible. Simply put, Democrats were snookered, bamboozled and herded like sheep to the slaughter by conservatives on the war.
And now they are now being led to the slaughter again, by the same bunch, on immigration reform.
Yes, the Neocons are at it again. On the war they played on Democrat's fear of being seen as sissies. This time Neocons are playing on liberal empathy for the very real plight of illegal immigrants from Mexico. But as laudable as that empathy is, it's a trap and Democrats have taken the bait -- again.
By falling in step with the Bush administration's so-called "comprehensive immigration reform," Democrats are driving a dagger into the hearts of working class Americans, particularly those struggling to survive at the bottom of the income scale. In other words, they are about to screw the very people they claim should vote Democrat because only Democrats will help them.
Four years ago the Neocons sold the Iraq war with a lie ... that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Now they are selling their version of "comprehensive immigration reform" with another lie ... that immigrants, legal or otherwise, are simply taking jobs Americans won't do.
Well, then, how do you explain this story:
Wall Street Journal -- Jan. 17, 2007
Immigration Raid Aids Blacks
After a wave of raids by federal immigration agents in Stillmore, Ga., on Labor Day weekend, a local chicken processing company called Crider Inc. lost 75 percent of its mostly Hispanic 900-member work force. The crackdown threatened to cripple the economic anchor of this fading rural town.
But for local African-Americans, the dramatic appearance of federal agents presented an unexpected opportunity. Crider suddenly raised pay at the plant. An advertisement in the weekly Forest-Blade newspaper blared "Increased Wages" at Crider, starting at $7 to $9 an hour -- more than a dollar above what the company had paid many immigrant workers. The company began offering free transportation from nearby towns and free rooms in a company-owned dormitory near the plant. For the first time in years, local officials say, Crider aggressively sought workers from the area's state-funded employment office -- a key avenue for low-skilled workers to find jobs. Of 400 candidates sent to Crider -- most of them black -- the plant hired about 200. (Full Story)
So, what happened there? This local Stillmore chicken processing plant had been perking right along for years paying illegals immigrants wages so low it made more sense for American workers right there in town to remain unemployed. But once those those illegals were gone, forcing the company to offer a reasonable wage, local (American) workers stampeded to get a job there. The job hadn't changed. It was the same, dirty, smelly, messy chicken gut-flinging work as before -- the kind of work the company claimed "Americans won't do."
All that changed at the Crider plant were the wages on offer.
And that's what it's all about, boys and girls. The entire GOP "comprehensive immigration reform" scam is about wages -- specifically keeping U.S. wages low and company profit margins high.
Nevertheless there they are, our Democrats, parroting GOP demands for "comprehensive immigration reform." Which, if passed, would undercut American workers and gut what little is left of union power to negotiate wage and benefits with companies. ("What ya gonna do? You gonna strike? Go ahead, make our day.")
Oh sharper than serpent's tooth are politicians capable of so casually ditching their tried and true friends of yore. Scroll back up and read that WSJ excerpt again.
Who got jobs once the illegals were herded out of Crider's factory?
Unemployed local African-Americans, mostly.
And where had all those worker been?
Cooling their heels at the Stillmore unemployment office waiting for a job that paid something approximating a livable wage.
And what happened when such jobs were offered?
They stormed the Crider plant to claim one of those jobs the company had claimed "Americans won't do."
Now, isn't that precisely what Democrats say their party has been fighting for all these decades since the civil rights movement? I thought so. But here we have those same Democrats joining Republicans pushing for this thing they keep calling "comprehensive immigration reform." Which, if enacted as currently envisioned, would not only put those 200 newly employed Stillmore, Ga., workers back on the unemployment line, but guarantee that millions more like them remain unemployed.
I do have to amend an early statement. Attributing the Democrat's support for Bush's immigration policies to just empathy is giving them a bit too much credit. While empathy may be part of their motivation, realpolitik plays a big role as well. Democrat's figure Hispanics, as "people of color," are theirs by right. Never mind that the legislation backed by President Bush would screw millions of American citizens of color. The important thing for Democratic Party strategists is to say and do whatever it takes to make sure Hispanics don't vote Republican.
The trouble is that, once again, Republicans are playing chess and Democrats are playing checkers. While Democrats are simply trying to make their party attractive to Latino voters, Republicans are going for bigger game. Sure the GOP would like to attract Latino voters to their camp and have had some luck doing so, especially in places like Florida and Texas. But they have a second bigger and more significant goal: keeping American working class wages low for companies. And the best way to do that is to guarantee the surplus of cheap Mexican labor continues unabated.
Anon,
Ultimately, the bottom line is, both Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta were Humanitarians seeking to stop the oppression being placed on the migrant workers. During strikes, they stopped strikebreakers from passing.
To understand the whys for Mexican and Latin migrations, it is important to understand programs like the Bracero Program:
Even though the United States has been dependent on Mexican labor in its agricultural sector since the early 1900s, the Bracero Program changed the face of immigration policy in the United States. The Bracero Program was a guest worker program that ran between the years of 1942 and 1964. Over the twenty-two year period, The Mexican Farm Labor Program, informally known as the Bracero Program, sponsored some 4.5 million border crossings of guest workers from Mexico (some among these representing repeat visits by returned braceros). Historian David Gutierrez argues that no other American immigration policy had more of an effect on the ethnic Mexican community than the Bracero Program, that the Bracero Program made immigration a political issue.
AND HERE IS THE IMPACT ON MEXICO:
The Importation of Mexican Contract Laborers to the United States 1942-1964 left an important legacy for the economies, migration patterns, and politics of the United States and Mexico.
The Mexican government lost all real bargaining power after 1950. Mexico lacked either the political will or the policy instruments to withhold the labor of its workers on whose behalf it was negotiating, and its cooperation with the United States in this and other issue areas were no longer vital. It was evident at this point that the United States wielded the power.
With the Bracero Program, Mexico LOST its manpower!!
Dee,
this blog belongs to you.
If you don't think i am a good hearted sincere person
then remove all my posts. Erase my existence.
But even if you do, read those books on Caesar. Read some writings from Booker T. Read that book on the LA Labor market.
And take a good look at the collection of exploiters and billionaires that are funding your side of this. Truly, they are laughing all the way to the bank
Your entire problem is, Anon, you are cherry picking the info you want to pull out of History to produce the results you want.
The facts are:
1. There will be no MASS Deportation
2. Congress will not pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform largely because the ANTIs argument that all CIS is Amnesty is working.
3. We will remain status quo with trickle down deportations and an average of 12 - 20 million people remaining in the shadows, being exploited, as they have been for the past several years.
The Winners: Business and the RNC
I have read several books about Cesar and Dolores. They, like my Dad, are my heroes.
You do not understand their overall history or their motivations. You chose to cherry pick various events during the formation of the UFW union and actions towards strikebreakers.
Cesar and Dolores were both Humanitarians wanting to stop the exploitation of people. Dolores is still continuing her quest. She is an amazing woman! My friend Tony just escorted her during her recent stay in KC.
The US initiated the Bracero programs. During this time, the southern borders were open and Immigration laws unenforced. It has been this way for the past 100 years.
I have published this information on my blog for months for all to read, study and understand.
Why would I delete anything you write Anon.
My question to you was, you portray yourself as a non ANTI with no agenda, merely to communicate with me and share your insights with me and to teach me new news.
If that is the case, why not email me? I have many email commenters. I publish my email all over my site and all over the web. I thought I would offer the invitation to you openly and honestly. You chose not to do so for whatever mysterious reasons you have. I find it all very curious.
Dee,
There will come a time - perhaps in the next few months, when a rich white exploiter, someone who hired undocumented workers and kept them in abusive conditions, is thrown in jail.
There are rich white exploiters who treat their undocumented workes so badly that the result is death of the undocumented workers.
When these rich employers are thrown in jail, for long sentences, it will be an event that everyone of good heart can cheer.
Let's all focus on punishing the guilty rich scum that abuse the vulnerable.
Anon,
I am very much in support of punishing Exploitive Employers
>Exploitive Employers. I have written about this frequently.
This is number 2 on my priority list: Employer Sanctions!
Ethnicity makes no difference. If Employers are exploitive, they should be punished.
In fact, this reminds me, I need to look up the current status of Insolia. I will be back in a few with the status. Thank you for bringing this up.
"So Ulty, are you saying VP Cheney is in a throwaway job? I thought you all say he is running things."
Historically, that has been the case.It is not we who say Cheney is running things; it is the liberal press and the democrats.
According to Irene: "Large parts of California now resemble a Third World country. If you've got money you can afford to live somewhere here that still looks and feels like "America." If you're working class or even just middle class, you live in Mexifornia. Consequently 300K native-born Americans leave California every year, taking their tax base with them. California is broke. The infrastructure is falling apart but there's no money to fix it. However there is always plenty of money to provide "free" public services for illegals and their anchor babies. We spend 10K per student per year and have a school system that is 47th in the nation. Our prisons are so full that we have to rent prison space from Idaho for our excess prisoners (1/3 of whom are illegals.) There are drug gangs in nearly every town and suburb -- not just in the inner cities, but everywhere. Our major cash crop is marijuana, 90 percent of which is controlled by the Mexican mafia, much of it grown illicitly in our formerly pristine national and state wilderness parks (It's unsafe to hike in many California wilderness parks now). When I was 10 years old we had the number one public school system in the nation, the number one infrastructure, the number one quality of life in almost everything. We're now down at the bottom in all of those things. From paradise to Third World toilet in just 35 years -- all it takes is completely open borders and zero enforcement of the law, and you, too, can have a Third World toilet instead of your boring, prosperous, low-crime, formerly First World state!"
November 05 , 2007 08:11:08 AM
Anon, Insolia was indicted but is still home. In the meantime, he sold the business. I guess that is what happens after ICE Raids!
New Bedford factory is sold; was site of immigration raid
By Kathy McCabe, Globe Staff | November 4, 2007
The New Bedford leather goods company that helped push deportation methods into the national spotlight when it was raided by federal immigration agents in March has been sold to a Missouri-based manufacturer of military and law enforcement gear.
Michael Bianco Inc., whose top officers were indicted in August for allegedly taking overt steps to shield illegal workers from authorities and help them stay in this country, was sold to Eagle Industries Inc., a longtime competitor, according to David Costello, the buyer's Boston-based spokesman.
Wow!!
Ulty, It is you ANTIs. I was just on the ANTI famous site (alley something or other). They call the prez booosh and make fun of all things B or C.
Ultima, i resent your racist ranting
take it to stormfront.org or vdare
there is no place for it here
There is no race war here - there is a class war.
How many times do i have to say this- the rich powerful exploiters are of many races - they speak many languages - Their wealth leads them to work together to exploit the workers.
We, the workers of all colors need to come together to defend our interests.
Already, in the places in the US with no unskilled workers coming in you can get paid $11 an hour at McDonalds. Wages in restaurants, consturction, meat packing, all going up.
In the places with tons of unskilled workers coming in wages are going down.
This is so simple I am ashamed that working people of all colors can't overcome the divisiveness that the billionaires and oligarchs are sowing within our ranks.
We have to come together, all of us, no matter what color we are, to fight for fewer unskilled workers and for dramatically higher wages.
I mean, why do cardiologists make so much money? Because they take action to limit the supply of Cardiologists.
If they imported a million cardiologists from around the world their wages would go way down.
Why does a diamond cost so much money? Because there are so few of them. If millions of diamonds were to be found all over prices of diamonds would be low
how complicated is it ? how hard is it? fewer unskilled workers mean much higher wages.
do the math! Do you want to be treated like a cardiologist, like a diamond? Or like dirt? How we are treated depends entirely on the number of people like us in the labor market.
There are a billion poor hungry unskilled people around the world that would like to come in to the US and compete with us for our jobs. Are you telling me that letting in that billion people wont drive down our wages?
Our enemies the billionaires know how to do math, why the heck can't we
Ulty, I always thought Miss Irene was really MaryST.
Just things to make you go hmmmmm.....
Racist comments don't allow for calm reasoned debate.
Workers of the world - unite!
Show solidarity with others stuck doing the tough jobs. People of all races, whether working in construction, restaurants, etc. The employer is your enemy. He is the one that will drive down your wages by any means he can.
Fewer unskilled workers means higher wages MUCH higher wages for all of us.
I think this falls in line a bit with what you are talking about Anon.
California Homes Scourged – American Workers Will Be Burned Next
by Tony Dolz
In November of 2005 the city of New Orleans lay in ruins following Hurricane Katrina. The devastation held one positive prospect; it raised hope that local and evacuated New Orleans workers would get work in the massive reconstruction project. Those hopes were quickly dashed. Voice of America reporter Greg Flakus quoted New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin as saying that in the reconstruction of New Orleans, using federal tax funds, the city was being “overrun” by illegal alien workers. These concerns were being echoed by many people in New Orleans and many more who were driven from the city by Hurricane Katrina two months earlier. The way the federal government handled many aspects of the recovery left many people reeling with anger to this day.
Will history repeat itself? Will tax-paid federal and state funds paid to companies for the rebuilding of property and lives be used to hire cheap illegal aliens instead of American workers?
A Katrina reconstruction analysis exposed massive corruption, fraud and political opportunism.
At the onset of the Katrina reconstruction, President Bush said that "as many jobs as possible should go to the men and women who live in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.'' Indeed, rebuilding the region -- its levees, roads, energy grids, and homes -- is to become the work of those affected by Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath”.
However, the Bush Administration acted in ways that encouraged a different segment of the U.S. population to do this work – illegal aliens. On Sept. 8, Bush issued an executive order lifting the Davis-Bacon Act, which mandates that construction workers on federal contracts be paid at least the average wage in the region. At that time the prevailing average wage was about $9.00 per hour. Bush’s order effectively dropped wages to near minimum wage, acceptable almost exclusively to illegal aliens. Marcela Sanchez, writing for the Washington Post of September 22, wrote that the decision was followed days later by a Homeland Security Department announcement that it will not apply sanctions toward employers who hire people unable to provide proper documentation. Essentially, President Bush encouraged companies receiving tax paid federal funds (our money) to displace higher-paid American workers with illegal aliens and assured their crooked employers that they would not be prosecuted.
Dee's problem is she only sees the good that it does for the "illegal Immigrant" and 'The Jobs Americans Wont Do', she doesn't care about the American Citizens that are/have been effected.
Liquid,
I bought this for you.
Have a glass
Dee,
May i ask you a personal question?
If it is inappropriate, please just ignore it.
Do you have any family members that were unable to make it through high school, who have to look for work washing dishes, or doing janitorial work? Do you have any friends in such a situation?
The reason i ask is that sometimes people doing those humble jobs have a different view than those that have good paying professional gigs.
The people who do the toughest jobs, in my experience, wish more than anything for a more even relationship with their employer. I mean, they want the employer to think twice before abusing them. They want the employer to say "I better be nice to this person for if i am cruel they will quit and i will be in a jam"
They want more than anything to be needed.
With millions of unskilled workers coming in, the sad fact is that the people working these humble modest jobs know they are easily replaced and the employer knows they are easily replaced.
That state of affairs is pretty demoralizing.
Dee, the latinos and people of color washing dishes and cleaning up trash want the same things out of life that you do. They want to make enough money to afford a decent house. They want to make enough money to afford healthy food for their kids. Maybe they want to be able to afford a computer so that they can participate in blogs like this this one, so that the better educated and better paid latinos don't always presume to speak for them.
The people that do the real tough work in our society deserve a voice - they deserve to be treated with humanity.
Dee, reach out to them. Reach out to those doing those tough jobs. The message they will give you loud and clear is no more competition from new people coming in. No more unskilled workers coming in. Make the employers suffer for a change, make the employers compete for a change.
Put some power in the hands of the workers.
Again Dee, I do not criticize you for your success in work and life. You deserve all that you have. But just think about how badly your employer would treat you if there were a thousand people like you banging on the door offering to do your job for half the money.
Put yourself in the shoes of your brothers and sisters that don't have your education and income, Dee.
Collapse comments
Liquidmicro said...
What you fail to see. I recommend that you read a book by John Bowe, titled - Nobodies (at least read a little about it here and here. It might just open your eyes to some of the untruths that you keep, relentlessly, spouting.
It represents many peoples reasons/thoughts/opinions on the ANTI side as you call us.
Again Dee, refer to what I showed you yesterday, it is exactly what Anon is talking about that you refuse to see.
With all due respect, Dee, you may be a beneficiary of the low wages brought about by endless unskilled immigration.
Do you and your husband mow your own lawn or do you hire someone to do it? How much do you pay this person that mows your lawn?
What would happen if there were no more unskilled immigrants coming in to the United States? Would the person who mows your lawn be able to raise his prices - is it possible he could make a little more money from people like you and perhaps afford a nicer home?
What about eating at restaurants - how much do the restaurants that you eat at charge? How much do they pay their dishwashers? Hmm. if there was less immigration, would you have to pay more to eat at a restaurant? Would you be prevented from eating out as much as you like?
Dee, don't take this as a criticism, I am just trying to understand where your economic interests lie.
Higher wages for the unskilled will take a bite out of everyone who employs them, including you.
Your standard of living may go down a little so that the people that serve you get a standard of living that goes up a little.
Perhaps you and the person that mows your lawn will be on a more equal footing. Perhaps the person that mows your lawn will have the money to join your church and move in to your neighborhood - perhaps his children will play with your children.
Don't you see, Dee that higher wages for the unskilled isn't just an economic issue, it is a social issue, it puts us all on a more even playing field, it makes us all more even.
It will impact all of us, including you.
Ask the people that serve you, serve your husband, and serve your family how they feel about getting higher wages through less immigration.
You might be surprised
Anon,
In answer to your questions, and I do write about this in my book, my parents raised 10 children, my 5 brothers and 4 sisters. As children, all of us worked as migrant laborers, picking fruit and vegetables in northern Michigan. My Dad believed in the American Dream. He worked in an auto factory. He raised all of us and instilled in us a hard work ethic and the need to complete our education. We all completed our education. Many of my siblings joined the military. All of us had various careers in business or in government. As we grew up, we worked to finance our own education, so yes, we worked in minimum wage jobs. I worked in a hamburger joint part time. I have worked in my primary career for over 20 years.
I believe in Education and Work Ethic, just as my Dad taught me, I taught my children.
I preach the same thing to my nieces and nephews. Many of them are in the military or working entry level jobs and going to school. (Plus I always, always preach NEVER DO DRUGS!)
I agree all people should be treated humanely and fairly. I believe in strong unions, and fair wages. I also believe all employers who intimidate or abuse their employees should be punished.
In my book, I share my struggles in business (and believe me, there were many) as well as my successes. I hope to publish it soon.
To my brothers and sisters in the working community, I would like to provide them the same advice my Dad gave me. Work hard. Do the best you can. Keep going to school until you complete your education. Never give up. Anything is possible. You have the power in your own hands.
Anon,
My husband or son mow our lawn. My husband likes to garden to relax. I like to blog. We don´t go to restaurants very often because we prefer to eat at home. We both like to cook. We both hate traffic, that is the primary reason. So to your point, many people eat out around here and that is why there is so much traffic. Also many folks in our neighborhood do hire people to do their lawns. I would venture to guess that many of the lawn workers may or may not have legal status. There is a day labor site near the downtown area of my suburb so I am guessing some of the workers may come from there. I don’t know. You would have to ask those that hire them. What is interesting is, it is not minorities that hire the lawn workers or own the restaurants.
Liquid, You are drinking Kool Aid again, aren´t you. You know you are not a socialist and you do not care about the impact to the worker as our new Anon poster does. He is pretty interesting, isn´t he? (or she.. don´t know for sure)
One does not need to be a Socialist in order to understand good economics.
I own my own business, I have employees, without them I don't make money. They are all paid better than what most same type companies offer. Now having grown up in this line of work and being able to go out and work with my employees, we all have mutual respect for each other. I'll repeat it so you can understand it, "Without my employees, I would have nothing." It does me no good to have a high turn over rate of employees with my line of work.
Now whats Socialist about that?
Dee,
I don't consider myself a socialist.
I believe that a free capitalistic system will drive UP the wages of the unskilled and drive down the income of the employer class. All that has to happen is that immigration has to change.
Dee, I respect you. And i trust you. If you were running the country and you offered me the following deal - immediate citizenship for the 12 million undocumented folks here in the USA today but in exchange, no immigration at all of the unskilled going forward, I would take that deal.
Making the 12 million citizens would not help the wage situation much in the short term. But over the long term, as they got more educated and skilled and the economy grew, a shortage of unskilled workers would emerge.
The current abysmal wages would start to go up. Employers would start to sweat a little and would try to be more humane.
After a while we would have a much more humane society. higher wages for the unskilled.
Dee, if you were in charge I would go for it. We could solve this problem right now.
Right now, I don't trust either political party to do the right thing on immigration. I don't trust them before we give 12 million people citizenship, and i don't trust them after we give 12 million people citizenship.
So i respect you, I know you are honest and you mean what you say.
just, in your mind, know there are some good people on the opposite side of the barricades.
As for the racists, well please give them hell. I am ashamed to have them on my side of this issue. I would rather lose to your side than win with the help of the racists
Liquid,
I am sure you are a very good boss and you treat and pay your employees well.
Anon,
I think we are close to a deal. Let´s put together a recommendation to establish a Guest Worker or path to Citizenship status for the 12M here.
At the same time, we severely limit new immigration, maybe even have a moratoriam for a few years.
We establish a national mentoring program. Encourage all Americans to volunteer. Encourage all students to complete college. Summer Schools. Sports programs. Stay off drugs. We could chang history and the dynamics of our country. I would be all for it.
Dee -
Sign me up. As soon as you take over the government from the greedheads that run it now, you can count on me being on board.
I don't want to dominate your board, but let me close by posting the following article about the labor market in Canada. Note that as soon as they got a labor shortage at the same time as a good economy, the wages of the unskilled started to skyrocket.
Imagine all those people working at fast food restaurants, retailers and hotels, finally earning a decent wage, living in decent homes. Having money to send their kids to college.
It's possible - it's within our grasp here in the USA. That's what i believe in.
After the status of the 12 million is decided, once this current battle is over, I want you to remember the article on Canada and consider giving your time to the cause of higher wages for working men and women.
I don't ask you to give up your current cause, see it through. but in your spare time dream of what is possible
Canadian HR Reporter
July 17, 2006
By Glen Hodgson
Alberta’s labour crunch is starting to make headlines far beyond the foothills and oil sands of Wild Rose Country. No sector of the economy seems exempt from labour shortages. Fast food restaurants and the hospitality sector are offering huge salaries by industry standards, but still find themselves shortening their hours because they don’t have enough workers. A recent Halifax job fair, organized by Alberta-based grocery stores, saw one retailer offer jobs that pay up to $35,000 per year along with free airfare, a month’s free rent and moving expenses.
The Alberta economy is currently at full employment, causing wage inflation. Wages rose by 7.6 per cent in 2005 and are approaching eight per cent so far this year, more than double the national average. However, the current labour shortfall in Alberta may be just the tip of the iceberg. The Conference Board of Canada’s estimates are sobering — by 2025, Alberta would face a shortage of 332,000 workers if current trends continue.
Soaring wages in Alberta have proven to be an irresistible allure for workers from across Canada. In the Conference Board’s analysis, net migration into Alberta is assumed to average close to 30,000 people per year for the next 20 years.
Anon, It was good to have you here this evening. You bring a new perspective. Please come back often!
Dee writes:
"Anon,
I think we are close to a deal. Let´s put together a recommendation to establish a Guest Worker or path to Citizenship status for the 12M here.
At the same time, we severely limit new immigration, maybe even have a moratoriam for a few years."
This is an interesting idea, and far more palatable than what was on the table. I would like to hear more from you about this. It's amazing that the comprehensive reform bills that have been on the table are enforcement + legalization for illegals + massive increase in new legal immigration. I think that is too much of a one-sided deal for most americans to swallow.
Polls seem to show that a majority of Americans are in favor of legalizing the illegals. Polls also show that most americans think that immigration levels should stay where they are or be reduced (and far more people believe they should be reduced than those who believe they should be increased).
Here is a direct link to a gallop poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/14785/Immigration.aspx
You can find more information by googling polls and "immigration levels".
So it looks like this proposal is in line with the majority of americans opinions. Most americans don't want to uproot 12 million people, but most think that immigration levels are too high. It's time for a grand bargain!
I disagree on part of it. We don't know that we need these 12-30 million illegal aliens in this country to fill jobs. If we did, why are so many day laborers standing on corners begging for work? Shouldn't we know first how many we actually need after Americans are offered to those jobs at a fair wage? There is no severe labor shortage in this country for most jobs. Shouldn't we give those jobs to immigrants who are doing the right thing by waiting in line in their native countries to come here and the ones who didn't go to the back of the line? Seems fair to me.
PJ,
I agree. This is a good possibility. I will do some googling as you suggest and we can talk more about this recommendation in the days ahead.
Giving illegal aliens driver's licenses will only make enforcement of our immigrant laws more difficult -- it would make it harder to detect them. It also "throws in the towel" and sends the wrong message to illegal aliens that they can change the law by breaking the law. Society must assume that anyone who would break the law and drive without a license, would continue to break driving and other laws even if they were licensed and most would not be any safer drivers. Moreover, it is laughable to think that these illegal aliens are going to run out and buy car insurance (one of more profitable documents now being sold to illegals, are fraudulent "proof of insurance" documents).
Here in CA, Insurance now must be electronically sent to the DMV at the time of registering a vehicle from the insurance company. If you allow your insurance to expire, DMV sends out a 15 day notice to correct the problem or your registration will be invalid and you will have to pay penalty fees in order to re-register your vehicle. No Insurance, No Registration. Still, 1- 20 cars has outdated tags and is driving on the roads without the proper registration and Insurance.
Liquid, Many states have the Registration, Insurance requirement.
We need Comprehensive Immigration reform.
1. Secure Borders
2. Employer Sanctions
3. For the 12M here, bring them out of the shadows, register them into Guest Worker status. Let them get licenses and insurance. Please.
I'll go for number 1 and 2, forget number 3 and the licenses for illegals.
Many states do in fact, Dee, but not all 50 states. All 50 should be in compliance with one another, instead of the each state has its own rules as we have now.
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